There are three motions on the supplementary Order Paper. No. 5a regards transitional arrangements for the committee dealing with European Union business. No. 5b is an all-party motion regarding the establishment of a committee to deal with proposals for Dáil reform and No. 5c is a motion regarding the adjournment today and the date on which the House will reconvene. I suggest that the Taoiseach could move the first motion and perhaps he might suggest that a speaker from each group could respond. We can address the motions collectively.
Standing Order 112 Select Committee: Motion
I move:
That, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders—
(1) the Whips and other nominees shall appoint thirteen members to the Select Committee standing established under Standing Order 112 (which shall be called the Standing Order 112 Select Committee), and four shall constitute a quorum;
(2) a Minister or Minister of State shall announce the names of the members appointed under paragraph (1) for the information of the Dáil on the first sitting day of the Dáil following their appointment;
(3) Standing Order 93(2) will not apply in the case of this Committee, which shall not be subject to the d’Hondt system for the allocation of Chairman posts;
(4) the Select Committee shall meet where necessary to perform the following functions:
(a) to consider the potential requirement for a reasoned opinion that a draft legislative act does not comply with the principle of subsidiarity as provided for in paragraph (1) of Standing Order 114;
(b) to consider such notifications under paragraph (1)(a) and (b) of Standing Order 115 as may be referred to it by Dáil Éireann; and
(c) to consider potential infringements of the principle of subsidiarity as provided for in paragraph (1) of Standing Order 116; and
(5) the Select Committee shall have the powers defined in—
(a) Standing Order 85; and
(b) Standing Orders 114, 115 and 116.
On a point of order, four motions were submitted by the Sinn Féin Party and they have been mentioned in the House already. One of them relates to water charges and the majority of Deputies have the mandate to abolish water charges. Why are these motions not on the supplementary Order Paper and why are we not respecting the mandate we have been given to end water charges and Irish Water? It is very clear that water charges are dead and gone. They have been buried with Irish Water, and that happened in the general election. Why are those motions not before us today? Why are there three other motions?
I am advised that the motions submitted by Sinn Féin are relevant to Private Members' business. The issues before us are related to the constitutional position around the appointment of a Government and the re-establishment of the Oireachtas committees. For that reason, I am advised that the Sinn Féin motions were not relevant to the Order of Business being transacted today.
Does that not say much about the palaver of Dáil reform? We submitted these motions in good faith. There is a scandal around NAMA and I and others have asked for the past two years straight questions of the Government but we never got answers on them. The committee in the Northern Ireland Assembly has now brought forward a very detailed report, and part of the motions spoken about by an Teachta Doherty include a request for a commission of investigation into that matter. Why may we not debate that? We have also submitted a motion relating to the crisis in the health services. Why may we not debate that?
There is no doubting the enormity of the importance of the issues raised by you and Deputy Doherty. The issue arising here, however, is simply one of timing. The establishment of a committee on Dáil reform may address how these matters are to be dealt with in future, as well as issues of timing. Furthermore, No. 5c deals with the next sitting of the House, at which it may be possible to address some of the issues raised by Deputy Doherty.
They are not included in that.
They are not included in that, but it is open to the Members, I suggest-----
A Cheann Comhairle-----
Yes?
With respect, we gave notice of four motions on time for inclusion in the Order Paper, but these have not appeared on the Supplementary Order Paper. I heard your explanation concerning the constitutional aspect of the setting up of committees and so on but, as Deputy Adams said, in one of those motions we also called for a commission of investigation. The Taoiseach said that the health crisis would not be put on the long finger, yet, according to the motions that we are now to discuss, health will not be discussed at the next sitting or on 6 April when we return after the break. I therefore ask that these motions be placed on a Supplementary Order Paper. I suggest that we adjourn until that happens, so that when we resume on 22 March we will have the four motions before us that can be debated on those days.
A Cheann Comhairle-----
Deputy Martin indicated first.
I would like to make a contribution on the proposal to adjourn the House, if that is in order.
Yes. Go ahead.
A Cheann Comhairle-----
No. I will call you after Deputy Martin.
I have listened to a good few contributions and I would like to make a contribution concerning the proposals pertaining to the adjournment of the House generally. Last month the Irish people chose to elect a highly diverse Dáil. Each Member of this House carries a mandate and a duty to represent those who elected them and to fight for the policies they advocated when seeking support.
I congratulate all new Members who have been elected. Each of them has an obligation to work towards resolving the many issues that we met on the campaign trail. I offer commiserations to those who were not successful in being elected but who had the courage to put themselves forward and compete in a parliamentary democracy.
No one in here carries the right to claim to speak on behalf of all of the people, or to tell others what their mandates represent. We have had an element of that already this afternoon. There is only one core message that we must all acknowledge, which is that a strong majority of the Irish people has voted for change. They have voted for a change of government and a change of priorities and, of course, they have voted for a different type of politics.
The Fianna Fáil Party has emerged from this election with the support of over half a million people. I want to welcome my new colleagues and to acknowledge the incredible work of our members in every part of the country. We have gained the largest increase in vote of any party and have more than doubled our representation. We did so based on a very clear platform of priorities for this Dáil and a specific approach to delivering the change we believe is needed. We argued that the outgoing Government should be replaced and that Fine Gael policy in particular had been divisive and unfair. This remains our position.
Following this vote, the most urgent question for us all, as Members of the Dáil, is how we will move forward in addressing the desire of the people for change. It is our intention as a party to continue to work for the permanent removal of the now acting Government. As we have been outlining in discussions with various parties, groups and individual Deputies, our immediate priorities are for urgent action on the housing emergency, addressing the growing inequality in the availability and quality of employment, reversing damaging health policies, and implementing a series of measures to support communities and families. We have been encouraged by the response in many of our discussions to date and have indicated that we will continue them in a more intensive manner after today’s votes. There has been a lot of talk about strong government. I believe that what the people want first and foremost is good government. Some of the worst governments in the world are strong, and the acting Government was rejected by the people after five years of the strongest majority in our history.
We should all realise that one of the arguments that failed to persuade the people was the claim that there would be chaos unless we immediately had a new Government with a solid majority. If we respect the will of the people, then it is time to put aside the argument that the speed of formation and the size of the majority are what matters in choosing a new Taoiseach and Government.
Following this vote, the situation we find ourselves in is far from unprecedented. Dáil Éireann has twice in the past failed to nominate a Taoiseach on its first day. There have also been instances in which a Taoiseach lost support and there was a delay in electing a new Taoiseach. In 1992, the formation of a new Government took nearly two months. During that time urgent business was addressed, including the passage of critical Supplementary Estimates and a Finance Bill measure. Given the fact that the budget has already been passed and there is no urgent Government measure which requires Dáil sanction, we clearly have the time to deliver a Government that respects the views of the Irish people. In fact, Ireland is relatively unusual in how fast it normally carries out the business of Government formation. This may well be one of the reasons for the fact that the focus is often placed on who holds power rather than what they do with it.
We have already talked about the need to reduce the excessive control of Government on the work of our Parliament. Let us now show that we are serious by taking up this challenge at the start of the Thirty-second Dáil in an inclusive and urgent way. Let us do this with a commitment to making this a Dáil in which all Members have both the opportunity and the obligation to contribute and be accountable. Motion 5b is a commendable step in that direction, but we are keen that the committee reach a conclusion before 6 April and that it make recommendations that can be immediately introduced to amend Standing Orders in a way that will fundamentally alter how we do our business in this House.
Reform cannot just be about how we ask questions and the timing of legislation; it has to be much deeper. We need a Dáil that is more independent of the Government, but we also need a Dáil that is more expert in its work and in which the proposals it considers, whichever part of the House they emanate from, are subject to real scrutiny. That is why I and my party took the initiative, while many of the counts were still ongoing, of calling for Dáil reform as the first item on our agenda. We welcome the fact that there is now a consensus on this. The failure of Dáil reform efforts in the past has been founded on the fact that the process has been in the hands of a Government majority. If we truly want to change the way we do our business, then the best way to do this is to reach agreement on reform before there is such a majority in place. This is an issue that we as a party have addressed repeatedly in recent years, publishing a list of more than 100 specific reforms. We have gone beyond general principles and set out exactly how procedures and structures can be reformed in order to implement those principles.
The consensus in favour of a cross-House committee chaired by our new Ceann Comhairle is welcome. Certain reform efforts require consideration of constitutional issues as well as complex statutory provisions. However, many simply involve the passing of procedural amendments. We believe there is enough detail in the proposals that have already been prepared by parties and Deputies to ensure that proposals for immediate and specific reform can be ready within weeks. I am pointing that out despite the degree to which some Deputies in today's debate have tried to scoff and pour scorn on the urgency of Dáil reform. People talk about Irish Water and the debacle that it became. That is intrinsically connected to the issue of Dáil reform. Why? It is because the Water Services Bill was rammed through in 24 hours without any proper scrutiny in the House at all.
Which the Deputy voted on.
It was then rammed through a second time in an amending Bill without due consideration or any detailed examination. My point is that Dáil reform is essential in terms of how we deal with issues that are critical to people's lives, including health. We have had a lot of discussion in the last while about having proper parliamentary engagement on that issue. Let us not just pour scorn, as some Sinn Féin Deputies tried to do earlier, on the importance of Dáil reform and its connection with good policy formulation and good outcomes on the key issues that concern the Irish people today.
We believe that Dáil Éireann is in a position to immediately take up urgent matters that were central to the election campaign. That is why I approve of the proposal to bring the Dáil back on Tuesday, 22 March to debate the Agriculture and Fisheries Council and housing matters. We also tabled a motion on housing today, but we sought consensus with other parties in order to ensure an ordered approach. We did not try to monopolise the situation by saying that we are the only party that cares about housing and health. Everyone genuinely has an interest in these issues, so it makes sense to have a consensus and some degree of efficiency in how we conduct our business on 22 March.
If people want to debate more, I am open and willing to do that on 22 March, or 23 March if people want that. It is important that this has been provided for when the Dáil returns. If we want to break the dominance of Government in all Dáil matters, there is no better way to start, as we said earlier in our consultations with others, than to schedule issues for debate without the immediate distortion that comes from the House being divided into two sides. We accept that it would be a constitutional nonsense to expect Ministers who do not hold the confidence of the House to be accountable for future policy so let us begin-----
They are getting paid.
They are not accountable in the true democratic way.
(Interruptions).
I did not interrupt Deputy Pearse Doherty once despite everything he said. He should allow me to make my contribution to the House. It would not be possible, so let us begin our work by holding debates where all Deputies have an opportunity to set out constructive action on the issues that should dominate the proceedings of the Thirty-second Dáil. I think we have had the agreement of most of the parties in terms of how we schedule these debates around the housing emergency and other issues. There is precedent for this with at least one lengthy policy debate held on urgent European matters in the period of the acting Government after the 1992 election. Should other urgent business appear in the weeks ahead, and the outgoing Government has so far not indicated that such business is likely, there will be no difficulty in addressing it before the new Government is formed.
In the past, there has been a tendency for leaders and Deputies to stand up and simply seek to re-run the election in their contributions following the vote on the election of An Taoiseach. I have chosen not to do so today but instead to be constructive about how we can make this a Dáil that delivers to the people credible change in how we do our business and how we make sure we are focused on the people's concerns. We have a strong democratic tradition in this country. The situation after this vote this afternoon is not exceptional. The situation now is as it was before. Every one of us has an obligation to work on behalf of the people who elected us and on behalf of our country. Notwithstanding the ritual condemnation of Fianna Fáil by some today and the alleged damage we have done, I noted the degree to which some of them were very anxious to get us into Government as quickly as possible. In doing this, our first obligation is to operate in accordance with the mandate we sought. In the days and weeks ahead, my party and I will continue to do this. Our priority remains to deliver the change of Government, change of politics and change of priorities which the people have so clearly demanded.
The primary purpose of the Dáil today and in the weeks to come is to seek by agreement to provide a stable and balanced Government that will provide the basis for many of the reforms people on all sides of the House indicate they are in support of. I would warn against excessive procrastination. The people have spoken and have given mandates to many of the parties here. There can only be one outcome to the different mandates that is positive for people. This is the formation of a Government that has the capacity to govern wisely and well in the interests of all of the people of Ireland. The issue of Dáil reform is important but I would argue that it is secondary to the interests of the people in the formation of a solid, stable and balanced Government for this country. The people have voted and given mandates as they did so to a variety of different political parties. Political parties cannot just decide to sit back and not be involved in what the people voted for.
I ask the Taoiseach and possibly the Ceann Comhairle to take the initiative to provide that on each of the days on which the Dáil is assembled - 23 March and 6 April 2016 - there will be a report by the Taoiseach to the House on what progress has been made towards the formation of Government. I have no problem with the issues that have been identified for debate if that can be agreed. They are significant issues but they are secondary in terms of the constitutional imperative that the country will need a Government and that there should not be excessive procrastination. Of course, there must be discussions and people must grapple with new realities in respect of how people voted, which may not have been the outcome for which they wished. The outcome for which the people voted is here in this House and people cannot avoid their responsibility to give the people of this country a stable and, hopefully, lasting Government.
Inherent in many of the contributions today is an implicit recognition that the country has moved on, not to a perfect place but to a far better place than was the case when we took over in 2011. As is the case after every election, there is a need for more progress to be made for people's conditions to be improved but that does not mean that we should take for granted the progress that has been made such as the fact that we can now borrow on international markets. When we came into office, Ireland could only borrow at interest rates of around 10%. We can now borrow at interest rates of roughly below 1%. Excessive procrastination will send out a message about the country. On reflection, people may wish to acknowledge that not everything is perfect in the country but that very significant progress has made, not least the fact that the level of unemployment has fallen from a high of over 15%, so-----
We are dealing with three motions. I think the Tánaiste is straying beyond the range of the motions.
The agenda that is set for 22 March and 6 April 2016 is seriously lacking in its failure to address a report from An Taoiseach relating to the progress made on the formation of a Government. It is critical that when the Dáil re-assembles on 22 March and 6 April, we receive a progress report on the formation of a Government from the Taoiseach.
The Tánaiste is well aware that if there is to be a progress report, it is open to her to propose an amendment to the motion before the House and it is open to the Taoiseach to do likewise. In respect of the items raised by Deputy Pearse Doherty, the business today traditionally relates to constitutional issues that face the House and related matters. There is a proposal before us relating to the sitting on 22 March - No. 5c - which the Deputy can propose to have amended in order to have the issues he and the Tánaiste raised addressed on that occasion.
The Taoiseach, the leader of Fianna Fáil and the Tánaiste all made statements.
The provision here was for the Taoiseach to make a statement in the aftermath of the votes. Subsequently, we moved on to the three motions set out on Supplementary Order Papers. Deputy Martin, the Tánaiste and Deputy Adams are more than welcome to make statements on those items. There is no provision for responding to the statement made by the Taoiseach and there is no tradition or convention in the House for this to be done.
This strikes me as odd but I will accept the Ceann Comhairle's direction on this matter. No Taoiseach has been elected today.
That is the reality and during the 31st Dáil-----
(Interruptions).
Deputy Adams has the floor.
Teachta Martin regularly and rightly reminded us that Fine Gael and Labour were implementing Fianna Fáil policy. How ironic is it that they have been punished by the electorate for doing so? Voters correctly rejected Labour’s way and Fine Gael’s way and the largest majority in the history of this State was squandered. They also rejected the Fianna Fáil policy which Teachta Martin rightly reminded us that Fine Gael and Labour were implementing. I take this opportunity to welcome Fianna Fáil’s conversion to the politics or at least the rhetoric of fairness that has given the party a bounce in the polls but the electorate will be unforgiving if Fianna Fáil fails to match its words with action.
Several speakers, including the Ceann Comhairle, referred to this year as being the centenary of this Republic. That is incorrect. This is not the republic proclaimed in 1916. It is not the republic of Pearse or Connolly and the spirit of the first Dáil is not embodied in this Dáil. In fact, the spirit of the 3rd Dáil, established in August 1922 for 26 counties, is what is represented here. At least the Ceann Comhairle and others who spoke on this issue should be clear about that. The republic of 1916 is still to be established and all of us, whatever our party political and individual positions, should endeavour to achieve that and to work every day for that, not just every 100 years.
In that spirit, I welcome all new Deputies here today, including the 12 new Sinn Féin Deputies and wish them and everybody else here the very best in their roles. I thank everyone who voted, stood and worked for our party and all of our families. Is mór an onóir í a bheith tofa ag an bpobal, ach go háirithe mar Theachta de chuid Shinn Féin. I also extend my best regards to those who, for a variety of reasons, whether through retirement or loss of their seats, have not returned to the 32nd Dáil and thank them for their contribution to the 31st Dáil. Thug Sinn Féin faoin toghchán seo le plean chun toradh a bheadh cóir a bhaint amach, i gcomhpháirtíocht le na daoine eile sa ghrúpa Right2Change. Tháinig méadú mór ar ár gcuid tacaíochta. As the party with the largest number of votes on this island, as the largest bloc within the Right2Change movement, as the third largest party in the Dáil and the main party of the working class, Sinn Féin wants to get on with the work of building with others a progressive alternative to the politics of the establishment. There is an urgent need. It is a deadly serious urgent issue for people who are denied equality that they should have equality, fairness and public services-----
The points Deputy Adams is raising are without question very valid but the topics before us at present for consideration are three motions. The Deputy is not addressing the three motions. I do not doubt the validity of the statement that he is making but the House is attempting to conduct its business in an efficient manner. That requires us and the Deputy to address the three motions that are before us, not to make a general speech about what will happen or what has happened.
If I may say, with respect, the Ceann Comhairle will not know until I have finished my remarks that my whole focus-----
We never do.
-----is to ensure that these motions are dealt with as we would see fit. The Dáil can deal with what I am saying in whatever way it wants but at least I should be given the grace and-----
I am most anxious to see the Deputy given whatever time is necessary-----
Thank you.
-----provided he is dealing with the issues that are before us and not other issues.
I am, if I may say so. The Ceann Comhairle did say in his opening remarks that every Deputy in here had an inalienable right.
They had.
I am just standing on my-----
They have an equal responsibility.
I always exercise my responsibilities seriously and fairly.
Good.
We made it clear that we would not serve as a junior partner to the establishment parties that created and sustained the economic crisis and caused the ensuing chaos in public services, in health, housing and in the cost of living crisis. I believe, and here is the nub of my remarks, that we should be allowed to get on with the work we were sent in here to do. There has been, since the aftermath of the election, a domination of the media and the other play-acting that is going on, shadow-boxing on behalf of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil. We are being told now that we cannot deal with the issues we want dealt with. Each of us, every Deputy, has the responsibility to fulfil the functions assigned to us. That does not include adjourning the Dáil to facilitate what we have seen thus far. I note the Government has flip-flopped and moved from its original date of 6 April to 22 May-----
Deputies
March.
-----gabh mo leithscéal, 22 March, but that is not for a real debate. That is for the reading of statements. We have lodged four motions and we will table an amendment for a debate on scrapping water charges, on the hospital and health crisis and on the need for a national monument to take in all of Moore Street.
I want to make the case again for an investigation into the sale of the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA’s, Northern loan book. The Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and the Tánaiste have all dodged that question for the past two years when I and others put it to them. The Northern Ireland Assembly’s Committee for Finance and Personnel has just published a progress report on its investigation and put 2,000 pages of evidence, including much material which was previously undisclosed, into the public domain. Why can these critically important issues not be debated here? The committee was rightly critical of both the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, and NAMA for the way they handled the sale. This is the people’s money. The Taoiseach should make a statement to the Dáil on that matter sooner rather than later and we should be able to debate that entire scandal here.
We support the establishment of a sub-committee on Dáil reform as provided for under Standing Order 107. Ba cheart go mbeadh an Ceann Comhairle ina chathaoirleach ar an gcoiste sin agus go mbeadh scéala ar ais againn sa Dáil faoi cheann cheithre seachtaine. Meaningful reform of the Dáil has to include the notion of a rotating Leas-Cheann Comhairle, end the practice of excluding the introduction of money Bills from the Opposition benches, afford Oireachtas committees the power to introduce legislation, allow Members decide what the business of the Dáil will be - that should not be the preserve of the Taoiseach and the Government Chief Whip - and provide for Northern representation here, without voting rights but with speaking rights, which was agreed by a Fianna Fáil Taoiseach and ourselves and others. Tá a fhios agam, ón méid a dúirt an Ceann Comhairle, go bhfuil sé ar son deis a thabhairt do Theachtaí na rudaí seo a phlé. Ba mhaith liom go mbeadh an deis againn é sin a dhéanamh.
The Taoiseach tells us he is now going to proceed, as he is bound to, to place his resignation in the hands of the President. He remains the caretaker Taoiseach and the Ministers remain in situ. They have the right, and I would argue the duty and the responsibility, to attend and be heard in this Chamber. They are going to come in and make statements but they cannot be held accountable. It is our firm view that they should be held accountable for their actions and decisions and that the Dáil should meet at least one day a week for meaningful debate, not just to go through the motions or for the optics.
Those of us present here and our party sought a very clear mandate to deal with the issues of, for example, the homeless who remain homeless as we sit here, the families in mortgage distress, the victims of the recent flooding who have still to get redress and others in rural Ireland who have been let down.
I received a call today from a Magdalen laundries survivor who had not yet received a full pension, despite assurances from the Department of Justice and Equality. The outgoing Ministers will not have a problem in receiving their pensions. There are still children suffering from long-term illnesses who cannot receive full medical cards.
The Deputy is wandering again.
Why can we not debate that issue?
The Deputy is wandering.
There are citizens with disabilities who are being denied their full rights. As we debate this issue, 511 citizens were on trolleys in hospitals this morning. That is what we are here to debate. Of course, we will pass a motion. If the establishment parties do not want to debate these issues, that is fair enough and we will have to abide by that, but I have always believed people are essentially decent and even if they are not directly affected by these issues, they want everybody to be treated fairly and decently. They want us to find solutions and be accountable for our actions. We are obliged to fulfil our mandate. We cannot wait until the other parties try to sort out their business and will table an amendment in due course. We would like to see these motions debated in the Dáil with all speed.
Five other speakers are offering. I call Deputy Thomas P. Broughan.
Is it not in party order?
They will be called in the order in which they indicated.
I want specifically to address No. 5c on the making of statements on 22 March. Obviously, special speaking rights have been given to various groups, including my own, Independents for Change. However, there is no reference to Independents generally, including colleagues such as Deputy Thomas Pringle and others. In the spirit of Dáil reform which you espoused in your speech earlier, it is very important to amend No. 5c to include special speaking rights for Independents because at that stage we will not have a Technical Group.
The Ceann Comhairle will have a very special role in forming a committee, in which I may be involved. One of the ideas you might pursue is having a permanent standing Estimates committee in Dáil Éireann. I believe the leaders of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil have made some reference to special budget offices in the Oireachtas. It is critical for us to have a committee which would be a mirror image the Committee of Public Accounts which looks at past spending. However, forward spending should also be looked at.
It is incumbent on everybody in the House to accept the results of the general election and that the people have spoken, especially in their decision on water taxes and their clear wish that Irish Water and water taxes be abolished. It is incumbent on all of us to accept that. However, I agree with one point the Tánaiste made. On 22 March we should receive an update on what has been done to form a government. That is the responsibility of the major parties, whether we are talking about a grand coalition or something like confidence and supply. Some such arrangement should be made. We should know exactly what will happen in this regard on 22 March.
I second Deputy Thomas P. Broughan's proposal in respect of an amendment to No. 5c regarding the speaking order of the differing groupings in the opening sessions in order to recognise that there are Independent Members in the House, particularly in the light of the sentiment expressed in No. 5b to establish a standing committee to look at the issue of Dáil reform. In that context, the order should be amended to reflect the fact that the Independents should have speaking rights in the opening sessions.
Earlier I said this Dáil must see fundamental departures from the policies in the previous two Dáileanna. The Tánaiste mentioned how easy and cheap it was to borrow. I wonder what that means to the 1,600 children in emergency hotel accommodation tonight. What does it mean to the 82 constituents of mine who were on hospital trolleys yesterday and the 511 patients on hospital trolleys around the country today? This Dáil needs to send a very clear message to the public that there will be fundamental change and that the Members of the Thirty-second Dáil will ensure the most vulnerable people in society will be protected. I have tabled a motion to that effect and expect it to be taken during this sitting of the Dáil.
On reform, I welcome the motion. Like most others, I am a signatory to it and it appears to have been agreed to by most Members and most parties. It is a very important and fundamental matter which needs to be dealt with urgently before the formation of a new government. If it is not done before the formation of a new government, nobody believes it will ever be. That type of reform is not good enough. We need the public, the electorate, to be brought centre stage in the democratic process. That means ensuring there will be a mechanism whereby Oireachtas Members who break their commitments and promises to the public can be recalled by the public. We must restore the elements that were included in the first Constitution whereby the public could initiate referenda and initiate and amend legislation.
We also need to ensure there will be no giving away of State assets such as the €31 billion in Anglo Irish Bank promissory notes, which was done without the approval of the Dáil. One of our Deputies is contesting it in the Supreme Court. It is vital that any such proposal be subject to Dáil approval. There are a number of other issues, on which I will be making submissions to the committee.
I concur with Deputies Thomas P. Broughan and Thomas Pringle who drew attention to No. 5b. We have heard a lot this evening about Dáil reform. We have heard the Tánaiste and Deputy Micheál Martin go on about it for quite some time. It is ironic that in the very first piece of Dáil business to be conducted on 22 March some 19 Independent Deputies will be excluded from speaking. I hope that is not the message we will send from this first meeting of the Thirty-second Dáil. I hope, expect and demand that the proposal be amended to ensure every Member of the House will be entitled to speak.
Nobody has been precluded from speaking today.
The proposal in No. 5c is-----
The proposal is before the House and may be subject to amendment. On the issue of Dáil reform, I hope it will arise as a result of consultation in which the Deputy and all other Deputies will be entitled to participate. Let us not condemn the fact that we have not had reform before there is consultation. Let us have consultation and bring the proposals arising from it before the House and then see.
The point I was making was that, while I welcome that particular proposal for the committee, it is ironic that we should start the first meeting of the Thirty-second Dáil by excluding Independent Deputies. That is not acceptable and will have to be changed.
The Deputy has not been excluded. This is the second time he has spoken.
I call Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett.
I too congratulate the Ceann Comhairle on his election, as well as those Deputies elected for the first time and those who have been re-elected.
All of us have to stand humble in the face of the judgment of the people. We spent several weeks campaigning on our different policies, priorities and political records, but now the judgment has been made. Our job is to act as swiftly as possible on that judgment and to respond to the concerns, the needs and priorities expressed by the people, both in terms of political reform and the pressing issues which face vast numbers of our citizens. The prerequisite for us moving to address those issues is the formation of a Government. Much as I would like for the parties of the left to be in a position to form a Government, we are not in a position to do so. That is a campaign which we must continue, namely to convince people of our policies and our priorities. Of course, we will continue to do that.
Accordingly, the responsibility to move swiftly to form a Government lies with those in a position to do so. One judgment made by the people, which to my mind is beyond dispute, is that they have asked us to move beyond Civil War factional politics. Instead, they want issue-based politics. Those parties, whose histories lie in Civil War divisions but where no real substantial differences exist on issues or policies, have a responsibility not to allow tribal or factional differences delay the formation of a Government, so that we can move on to the issues which need to be addressed urgently.
For our part, as a small part of this Dáil, the Anti-Austerity Alliance-People Before Profit group is willing to talk to anybody about addressing those issues. However, realistically, we do not believe we have the same approach to addressing them as do those parties which have the numbers and are in a position to form the majority. We will do so on committees, whether it is to do with Dáil reform or elsewhere and we will work with and discuss with others ways of addressing those issues. Now, however, a Government must be formed so we can move on to that discussion.
While a combination of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael is not the Government I would want, they have a responsibility now to explain why they cannot form a Government or move on to form one.
We have explained it many times.
It is now Deputy Boyd Barrett’s responsibility.
One voice, please.
I welcome this motion, one to which we also signed up. Again, I would ask for humility in the face of the judgment of the people. Nobody here has a monopoly on demanding or calling for political reform. That demand has come from the people through the ballot box and in many movements on different issues affecting our society, whether it is water, hospitals, disability, young people and the issues that face them, or communities which have been desperately disadvantaged and hurt over the past several years. It is the responsibility of all of us - it is why I welcome this motion - to respect the judgment made and to allow this Dáil to have a diversity of voices, as well as a parity of esteem among those different forces elected to this House. They must all have the opportunity to speak, debate, as well as put forward their ideas, policies and priorities. These should not just be noble words spoken on the first day of the Dáil, soon to be forgotten. This business has to be done and settled. Everybody has said today that they want to see it happen. Now it has to happen because we had similar promises before.
I agree with the points made by Deputies Pringle, Healy and Broughan. It is an error in this motion not to have reference to the Independents, notwithstanding the need for the more detailed debate about changes to the rules of this House. The motion should be amended to include Independent Members who are not of any of those groups referred to in it. The Government must acknowledge that this amendment must be included.
There will be a debate about what messages have been sent by the electorate. Several of them are incontrovertible and are not open for debate. Ninety-nine Deputies elected to this House were elected on a pledge to either abolish water charges or, at least, suspend them.
That is fine but the Deputy is going beyond the terms of the three motions before us.
It does refer to the debate about what needs to be discussed as a matter of priority on 22 March. That is a challenge to those who are talking about democracy, making this House relevant to people who are alienated from politics and that they live up to their pledges. There should be no attempt to slither out of pledges made in pursuit of votes in the election that has just gone. There is an incontrovertible message which must be acted upon and that water charges have to go.
An urgency was expressed about the situations in housing and homelessness and in our health service. These are challenges to which all of us must respond urgently. The situation regarding them is not acceptable. All of us have to put up our hands and say they have not been addressed over the past five years but must be addressed as a matter of urgency. I met a man I happen to know outside on the street who informed me that his daughter, who is in a wheelchair, went to accident and emergency in St. Vincent's hospital today. He was told by a consultant that she might be four days on a trolley before she gets treated there. That is not acceptable. We need a Government to be formed. We need the issue of how the business of this House will be done to be addressed as a matter of urgency, so we can move quickly to address the intolerable situation in our hospitals and the unacceptable situation of homelessness in the State.
I have a large number of Deputies now offering. I do not want to curtail the debate. However, can I plead with Members to be a little more succinct, if they could. I call Deputy Martin Kenny.
As this is my first time to address the House, I congratulate the Ceann Comhairle on his election. He was the only Member who won an election today.
All Members have great expectations. Mine is that, in a short time, I would be able to hold various Ministers to account. I know there will be a caretaker arrangement for the next period. However, between now and a Government being formed, it is important the issues which face the people of my constituency and across the country are dealt with. Yesterday evening, there was a car accident outside Drumshanbo in which a young woman was injured. She waited over an hour for an ambulance to come from Carrick-on-Shannon, which is less than 15 minutes away. Dynamic deployment of our ambulance services across the whole western seaboard does not work. I want to be here to hold the Minister to account in respect of that.
It does not work in respect of that. I also wanted to come here to hold the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine to account with respect to the many farmers in my area who have a major problem in getting their entitlements, with respect to the issue of young farmers and with respect to the farmers who have been left behind in trying to get their issues resolved.
Another issue concerns St. Patrick's Hospital in Carrick-on-Shannon where the nurse-led service, which was withdrawn in recent months, has not been restored. A further issue involves many people in my area, the people who live on the Burren Road in Templeport and the people who live in the parish of Gortletteragh, who have tried to obtain a school bus service because the rules have been set in such a way that a school bus will only transport their children to the nearest school, even if it is not the school in their parish. These are the issues I face in my constituency. When I came to this House I had the expectation that I would be able to hold people to account around these issues, yet we find we have motions before us that will defer democracy until some time in the future and we do not have a date set for it. We have been told that on 22 March statements will be read in the House. That is of little use to the people who put us here. Many young newly elected Deputies to this House expect an awful lot better. We were all told before beforehand that there is a lot of pomp and ceremony around it, and we understand that, but we want to get down to business. While I understand a Government has to be formed, and we wish that this will happen as quickly as possible, we also want to ensure today and tomorrow that the issues that face the people who put us here are dealt with. It seems to me and to all of us that this is being deferred. That is not good enough.
Before I call the other speakers, it seems that motion 5a and 5b are pretty straightforward and non-contentious. Could we take it that those-----
Except for the reference to the Independents.
Can I take it that motion 5a is not contentious? It deals with the appointment of a select committee under Standing Order 112. It is not contentious. This has been done before. I ask for the agreement of the House on it.
It is agreed.
Thank you.
On motion 5a, and this point is related to motion 5c but I will not go into that, some 19 Members of the House, who comprise one eighth of the membership of the House, are non-aligned Independents. Is provision being made for them under motion 5a because it is not covered on the d'Hondt mechanism? Will those Members who comprise one eighth of the membership of the House be represented on this committee?
There is not that provision, as I understand it, but I would ask the Whips to examine that issue. In the spirit with which the Deputy and others have raised it, it is an issue that should be addressed. I think the Government Whip-----
We are surprised by what is happening now.
With respect, a Cheann Comhairle, there is not much point in the House agreeing something here. I, along with my colleagues here, spent the past few days talking to colleagues across this House about Dáil reform, and we have spent the past four hours talking about it, yet the first motion that has been put to the House excludes one eighth of the membership of this House. The third motion that will be put to the House excludes one eighth of the membership of this House, and that is not good enough. To take the example of agriculture, it is a big issue in my county and the adjoining county of Galway. Five out of the 11 Members who have been democratically elected for those two counties have been excluded through that motion.
I think the point the Deputy has made is accepted. The Taoiseach may like to briefly comment on that point.
I am quite prepared, if the House agrees to it, to amend the motion to include the point Deputy Naughten has made. It is a valid point.
Both motions 5a and 5c.
I thought that the five Independents who are named in motion 5c were to encompass, representatively, all of the Independents.
That is motion 5a-----
It is motion 5b.
We are dealing with motion 5a.
I would have said consistently all along that the d'Hondt methodology should be used, if we are going to go back to that methodology, but we were asked to accommodate more than the d'Hondt methodology, which we were willing to do, but now it seems it is the d'Hondt, plus, plus. I do not want to get involved in that but I will agree to-----
Are we agreeing motion 5a?
Subject to it being amended by the Taoiseach.
As amended by the Taoiseach. Yes. Motion 5a is agreed.
On a point of order, are we clear on who is included under 5a?
All Members are subject to be included.
Fine.
All 157 of us, excluding the Ceann Comhairle.
All 157 Members. Deputy Jonathan O'Brien was offering, however, I ask the Taoiseach to first move motion 5b.
Question put and agreed to.