On my behalf and that of my party, I wish to express solidarity and sympathy with the family, community and political colleagues of Ms Jo Cox, MP. The murder of a public representative in a democracy is a very rare and shocking thing. On behalf of my party-----
Leaders' Questions
We will have statements on this at the Order of Business.
I did not realise that. That had not been communicated to me. Maybe we could work out arrangements for situations like this in the future. I appreciate that, a Cheann Comhairle.
I raise with the Taoiseach the anger, anxiety and great surprise at how the statutory instrument introduced by former Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, last January has created chaos and mayhem within the bin industry and caused anger and anxiety among householders across the country. There have been claims and counter-claims but essentially bills in quite a number of instances have gone through the roof. In many ways, it highlights the complete lack of transparency in relation to bin charges generally. Quite a number of companies are not transparent at all in terms of their charging regime. The standard charges were increased under the guise of the introduction of the pay-by-weight system. Deputy Kelly signed in the charges on the basis that 87% of people would have their bills reduced but he indicated that the Taoiseach and the Minister, Deputy Coveney, were caught hopping.
I do not know whether the former Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, discussed this with the Taoiseach last January when he signed the instrument or whether there was a discussion on it in the Cabinet because I cannot reconcile his perspective on this at that time with the subsequent view that the Government was caught on the hop by the companies and did not follow through sufficiently.
The Minister, Deputy Coveney, has brought forward a range of proposals. Members of the House and spokespersons, including Deputy Cowen, asked the Minister to engage with the companies with a view to bringing about a resolution to this debacle. Essentially, there has been a deferral of the charges regime for 12 months. I seek clarity from the Taoiseach on that. Can he guarantee that householders will not have increased bills over the next 12 months? Also, during the next 12 months, will the Taoiseach take the opportunity to initiate a comprehensive review of the current waste collection, management and recycling system and industry? There is a complete absence of transparency and there is no regulator. Will the Taoiseach consider the appointment of a regulator? There is also a lack of competition in some parts of the country while an increasing amount of illegal dumping is occurring. The next number of months should be used as an opportunity to conduct a comprehensive review of this sector, so I ask the Taoiseach to initiate such a review.
I thank Deputy Martin for the question. This controversy has blown up quite recently, following the statutory instrument introduced by the former Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly. Obviously, what the Government seeks, and most Deputies would agree with this, is that people would take the opportunity to think more carefully about the way they deal with refuse and the disposal of waste. The theory and spirit of the legislation was that, as a result of examining what should be put into a black bin, less would be put into it on a pay-by-weight basis, which would mean a reduction in charges for people. In addition, there would be better use of the brown and green bins, as the case may be. In many cases, there are shortages in capacity for landfill and the less that goes to landfill the better.
In the last couple of days, people were very concerned that their bin charges would rise to a serious extent. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, met with the Irish waste management industry and the majority of those who supply waste services and he has announced a pay freeze, with the support of the waste management companies, for the next 12 months on the basis of the current pricing plans. That means no increase in what people have paid in respect of their last bill. During the second half of 2016, the Government and the waste industry are committed to an intensive public awareness and information campaign to promote the benefits of the pay-by-weight charging model and to support customers in understanding how they can change their waste management behaviour and manage their waste costs better under the pay-by-weight system. That is in everybody's interest as well as in the environmental interest.
No later than 1 January 2017 customers will receive a dual pricing bill listing the amount of waste they are disposing of, the costs under the current pricing system and details of what the comparative cost would be on a pay-by-weight charge. They will be given the option to transition, should they so choose, to pay-by-weight charging or to remain on their current pricing plan. People have an option here to reduce the amount of waste they put in the black bin. After the transitional 12 months, the operation of pay-by-weight in the wider waste market will be reviewed to inform decisions on the arrangements beyond 1 July 2017. Also, the Minister has confirmed the commitment of the waste industry to provide a full weight allowance for the 60,000 Health Service Executive, HSE, patients supplied with incontinence wear to reduce their waste charges and the Government's provision of a 50% exemption to the waste industry from the landfill levy in respect of such waste. This point was made last week.
These are the changes the Minister wants to bring in.
In respect of the issue raised by Deputy Micheál Martin, it is valid to look at the structure and the way the management of waste is dealt with. This issue needs to be looked at. The Minister for communications, climate change and natural resources, Deputy Naughten, will be dealing with it from now on and will be happy to examine it.
Did the Taoiseach say that the hot potato has been handed to the Minister for communications, climate change and natural resources, Deputy Naughten?
Yes, it transfers across.
That is a surprise.
No, that is already in the transfer of responsibilities.
I thought that the Minister for housing, planning and local government had been handling this proactively for the past week or two weeks but the Taoiseach slipped it in there that it is now the responsibility of the Minister for communications, climate change and natural resources.
Housing, planning and local government and, obviously, energy and-----
The former Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Kelly, was adamant that there would be a reduction for 87% of households. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, has not commented on that one way or the other. The bin companies are saying it is a mathematical impossibility. The Taoiseach was in the previous Government with Deputy Kelly. Surely they discussed it and were all convinced it would bring down waste charges. The opposite has happened and the bin charges have gone way up. Deputy Kelly said the Government was caught hopping. I am trying to find out in between the two how the Government was caught hopping. Perhaps Deputy Kelly might illustrate to us in greater detail how something he introduced apparently caught everybody hopping. It caught the companies, householders and the Government hopping.
In a more serious vein, and I am serious about that one, will the Taoiseach initiate a comprehensive review of the industry because there is a lack of competition in certain places and there is a complete absence of transparency on the part of some companies in respect of their charging? Some companies are saying that the pay-by-weight system will encourage cross-contamination of waste and will interfere with and undermine the recyclable material and product that emerges from the system at the moment. Many issues have emanated from this ill-thought-out and poorly implemented statutory instrument, which seems to have been used by some companies, which engaged in below-cost selling to get into the market and to get a significant share, to raise charges excessively and use the pay-by-weight system as a camouflage to do that.
I do not think the former Minister set out to catch anybody on the hop, least of all the Government of which he was a member.
You do not know about that.
The spirit of the legislation was that by looking differently at how waste could be disposed of, the charges could be reduced. In other words, consumers or customers would have the option to examine carefully and think about how they would dispose of their waste in terms of green, brown and black bins and that on a pay-by-weight basis, charges could be reduced. Clearly, that was not what was going to happen here, which is why the Minister for housing, planning and local government met with all of the waste management companies and has agreed, with their support, a freeze for 12 months given the other issues that are there.
The fact that some waste disposal companies in a competitive sense decided to tout for commercial business by offering a below-cost service for waste disposal is a matter for themselves in terms of the competitive nature of the waste disposal industry. If they decided to provide a service at below cost, that is something they have to live with.
In respect of the structure, one could have a situation where one could tender for an area and the company that won that tender would then provide the service there. As the Deputy knows, there is a very different system in many places. Some roads would have three or four companies supplying a bin collection service. The point raised by the Deputy that there should be an examination of the entire structure is a valid one and we can initiate it.
Many people are only just waking up to the reality that the Taoiseach is back in office despite the result of the general election. This latest debacle over bin charges has been a wake-up call for many. It is also a very stark demonstration of the shallowness of the so-called new politics. The reality is that many households cannot afford these bin charges. There is nothing new, politically or otherwise, about bin companies agreeing that they will go ahead with these charges in July 2017 instead of July 2016.
There is nothing new about the leader of Fianna Fáil opting out of his partnership role to lament the bin charges fiasco even though he has yet to support measures which could annul the statutory instrument that allows these price hikes. It is nothing but the same old story.
Under the Taoiseach's watch, the then Minister, Deputy Kelly, introduced a statutory instrument which allowed for households to be fleeced by some unscrupulous waste disposal companies. At that time, the Government maintained that the new charging regime would mean that 90% of households would pay less to have their bins collected. It now turns out that, in reality, 90% of families and households will pay substantially more. The companies have agreed to put that off for one year. The Taoiseach says it is to give people more time to think about their options. That is not good enough. Citizens already struggling with the cost of living crises in respect of mortgages, rents, child care, water charges, property tax and car insurance are being hit once again and the Taoiseach advises them that he is giving them a year to think about this. It is yet another increase on top of all the other taxes, costs and charges he has inflicted on ordinary citizens in recent years. It is very clear that this waste management strategy, if it can be called that, will also impact on small businesses and the farming community and there is the real prospect of more illegal dumping across the State.
It is very simple. The regulations - part of Deputy Kelly's glorious legacy - were introduced by the stroke of a ministerial pen and they can be removed today by the stroke of a ministerial pen if that is what the Taoiseach wants. Instead of pushing this issue down the road to diffuse a potential political storm, I ask the Taoiseach to make a commitment that new regulations or legislation to deal with this debacle will be introduced by his Government with the assistance of Fianna Fáil this week.
I thank Deputy Adams for his comment. I listened to his deputy leader saying that anything that would promote the better distribution and management of waste should be supported. Everybody accepts that the less one has to put into landfill in the black bin the better and that better use of brown and green bins will follow through. Deputy Adams wants to jack up income taxes to put more pressure on working families and to have a situation where all of this comes out of general taxation. The Deputy might like to indicate what he means by that in terms of increased income taxes.
The position is that the Minister has met all the waste management companies. A freeze has been put in place for 12 months. When 1 January arrives and the dual-billing process is sent out to customers, they will be able to see the difference and compare whether the current system or the pay-by-weight system would have a better result for them, depending on what they put into the black bin. They have the option of transferring from one to the other. There are difficulties in terms of terraced houses where there is no room for a bin to go out the back such that if bags were to be done away with, it would obviously cause a problem. That is a matter that can be looked at.
In the broader context of having a more effective way of dealing with waste disposal and collection, perhaps based on a franchise per area, these are matters that should be examined. For now, customers and consumers should be very clear that the spirit of what the former Minister, Deputy Kelly, intended was not being adhered to. Ministers met the waste companies and there is now a solution in place. In the course of the coming months, reflection can be made on the waste management system generally for more effective waste collection and disposal which will reduce the impact of what is going into landfill. Deputy Adams is aware that a number of landfill sites are at full capacity and that many areas around the country now have a shortage of capacity for landfill. Everybody thinking about how they would dispose of waste generated in households will have an impact on that as well.
Deputy Adams wants to do away with all the incentives that have been there for ten or 12 years and which people are very pleased about and proud to participate in because it is good for the environment and for the extent of what goes into landfill. It is very good for people to be able to see they are making a contribution to a better country.
With all due respect, that was a rubbish answer. I asked the Taoiseach a straightforward question as to whether he would make a commitment that new regulations or legislation - in other words, a statutory instrument - to deal with this debacle would be introduced this week and he ignored that question.
The fact is that households cannot afford these additional charges. A working couple without children, currently paying by weight and who recycle and compost, will not save money under the new scheme. One bin company will increase this couple's standing charge by 108% and the annual cost for their waste services will jump from €84 to €140. That is a 66% increase. Such people do not need 12 months to think about all of that. They know where they stand on this issue.
Households understand what it means to be ripped off. If the Taoiseach is really about new politics, why does he not make a commitment to bring in new regulations to prevent bin companies from hiking up charges, this year, next year or any year after that?
It is funny that Deputy Adams mentions rubbish in talking about waste collection. I am not sure what the Deputy's intent there is. However, let me repeat for Deputy Adams-----
We have been there.
A comic.
Did the Taoiseach rehearse that?
One speaker, please.
------that the Minister has listened carefully to the genuine concerns of many people around the country about what might happen in respect of waste charges and that is why there is a price freeze for the next 12 months on the basis of the current system.
What about Greyhound? Is Greyhound covered?
That is Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan's Bill.
That is why during the second half of 2016 the Government and the waste industry have committed to a detailed public awareness campaign so that people will understand exactly what options are open to them and how they can reduce their charges for waste. Rather than sending out two bills in July, which might confuse people, on 1 January next year, they will see the comparative price between the current pay regime and what they would be paying under pay-by-weight which gives them the option to choose which one they prefer. Obviously, if one can reduce one's charge by reducing the weight of material put in the black bin, then so much the better. This also takes into account the concerns that were mentioned in respect of people who have particular challenges, notably those 60,000 HSE patients who must have use of incontinence material. That is a significant understanding of the challenge that those people face.
We need to move on. I call Deputy Howlin.
Over six weeks ago, this Government came to office amid a flurry of talk and promises of new politics. Today, we see the publication of the summer economic statement. In fact, I understand in five minutes' time the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform will make that announcement outside the House. It has been published without any consultation with the Members of this House. Indeed, Members of the House got to read in this morning's newspapers that €300 million is to be made available for additional tax cuts and €600 million, apparently, to be devoted to additional expenditure next year. According to the newspapers this morning, a total of €900 million, therefore, is to be made available in what amounts to the determined fiscal space, a sum which the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council has already described today as "contractionary".
We will have a contraction in our economy next year, according to the projections, or at least those that we read about in the newspapers. There is a train of thought among economists these days that because of the experiences of the past while, we should be very risk averse and that amounts apparently to prudence. An aversion to risk must not put at risk the very factors that we need to invest in our economy, if we are to continue to grow and continue to provide jobs for our people. That approach disregards the legitimate demands of the public that an improving economy will impact on their quality of life. We argued in the last election that a ratio of at least 2:1 should be allocated between investment and tax reductions.
The ratio should probably be more than that to deliver what we need, such as smaller classes, a functioning health system, indexation of welfare payments and so on.
There is a second aspect of today's coverage in the newspapers that also troubles me. We read today that the Government intends to press ahead with the idea of a rainy day fund. So when we have an urgent need for investment in infrastructure - whether it be broadband, schools, health services or roads - apparently the Government will effectively put money on deposit. Even if it could be used to pay down debt, it would be more reasonable than simply leaving money on deposit.
I have two questions for the Taoiseach. Does he accept that investment in urgently needed infrastructure makes much more sense than simply creating this so-called rainy day fund, which, in effect, is leaving money unused on deposit with the Central Bank? How does he propose to have cross-party buy-in to the budgetary process if fundamental questions about the fiscal space and the total sums to be deployed are made without consultation with anybody in the House?
Deputy Howlin was an esteemed member of a Government that had to make very difficult decisions about changing the direction of the country and bringing it back from an unprecedented recession. He asked two questions. There are five specific commitments in the programme for Government in respect of the economic opportunity that lies ahead. The first is to meet the domestic and EU fiscal rules and the summer statement sets out how that will happen. The nominal budget will be balanced in 2018. Second, there should be at least a split of 2:1 between spending and tax, and the projections are that this ratio is to be maintained each year. The third is that there would be a spend of at least an additional €6.75 billion in delivering additional public services by 2021, with current expenditure in that year projected to be 6.75% higher than 2016. The fourth commitment is an additional €4 billion in Exchequer capital investment up to 2021. We would comply with and exceed the latter by making use of the favourable treatment of capital in the rules so that capital will increase by just over €5 billion. The fifth commitment is the establishment of a rainy day fund. The Ministers responsible for both finance and public expenditure and reform have pointed out that €1 billion per year will go to the fund in the period 2019 to 2021, with a commitment to bring forward proposals to the Oireachtas for discussion on that. It would be a matter for the Government of the day as to whether that should continue beyond 2021 and how it should be used, depending on the circumstances that apply internationally or from an economic perspective.
The total amount available to the Government over the five years is estimated to be a cumulative €11.3 billion. Critically, the space for 2017 has increased to €1 billion, with €1.2 billion available in 2018. It means the Government can bring forward some spending for 2017 for the kind of issues mentioned by the Deputy, including infrastructure and social issues, that was not available even three months ago. From 2019 to 2021, the increase will be of the order of €3 billion per annum, arising after the balancing of the budget in 2018. This means the additional capital for 2017 will be €250 million, for 2018 it will be €750 million, for 2019 it will be €1.18 billion, for 2020 it will be €1.38 billion and for 2021 it will be €1.59 billion. That is a cumulative €5.14 billion over the period. This means that many of the priority issues which must be addressed can be brought forward somewhat, as there will be an additional €250 million available in 2017 that was not available in figures from just a few months ago.
Obviously, there is a space here and the Minister pointed out how the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council would be involved in discussions about the formation of a rainy day fund, how it might be used and what it would be used for and the opportunities to make proposals in that regard.
I asked about next year's budget. In the programme for Government, we were promised a new budgetary architecture. How can there be consultation or an agreement in respect of next year's budget if its parameters are determined without consultation with anybody?
It was always envisaged that there would be a review of capital spend next year. The figures set out by the Taoiseach are very parsimonious in terms of the capacity of the economy to deal with real infrastructural deficits in a way that drives further job creation.
In relation to the rainy day fund, the difference between gross and net debt is approximately 10% of GDP. We have notionally bank shares and so on that we will be able to sell, which means a sum of money will be available to the State to invest if we wish. Surely it makes more sense to set up an ambitious capital programme for the next few years to address issues like broadband and the third level deficit and to make a significant spend in terms of education, finishing our road network and investing in health care and child care facilities. Would that not be the wise way to invest money, rather than talking about some rainy day fund?
There are four hours allocated for the summer economic statements in the House on Thursday. The national dialogue will take place next week and the committees of the House will do their business on the preparation for the budget running into October. Regarding expenditure for 2017, there is a net amount of €1 billion extra, with expenditure of €670 million as against taxation of €330 million. The figures for 2018 are €0.79 billion and €0.39 billion. This complies with the projections for a 2:1 ratio, which I outlined earlier.
It is true that when Deputy Howlin was in government we did not have the capital to invest in those very necessary facilities. That situation has improved somewhat and it means that for next year, 2017, there is an extra €250 million available, which is a great deal of money, but a small amount in terms of the overall budget. Some of those projects can be brought forward. As Deputy Howlin is aware, the Government has focused on health and housing as two major priorities. There are, of course, others, including education, broadband and other such areas. There are four hours on Thursday for a debate and then we will have the national economic dialogue next week.
This is my first time speaking during Leaders' Questions, so I will probably go easy on the Taoiseach. Many people in this House have received correspondence and e-mails in regard to bin charges and that whole debacle. I just want to read out one e-mail I got from a chap in the area I live in. I cut it down a little bit. It encapsulates everything that is wrong with these charges:
I want to raise this issue of the new pay-by-weight bin charges announced by Greyhound and other bin companies. I am a full-time carer for my sister, who has Downs syndrome and who suffers from adult urinary incontinence. I need to use my bin daily to dispose of adult nappies and pads. As a result of the new charges, my bin charges will increase from Euro 204 to Euro 304.60. This is a price increase of 50% and in my opinion it is outrageous that this is allowed to happen.
[...]
The Dept of Environment stated that 87% of clients would see their bin charges fall. This is clearly erroneous and misleading information.
I am a life-long environmentalist and I have a compost heap for my green waste. I use my green bin to dispose of all plastics and paper. There is very little else I can do to reduce my own personal liability.
I hope you can now influence this Government to step in before July 1st and prevent this profiteering by these bin companies.
I never thought I would end up in the Dáil.
But I am very proud to represent working people and one poster has stuck in my head for a very long time. It read, "We deserve to live, not just to exist", and that is what is happening to working people in this country at the moment. We talk about a dispensation in this House but there is a dispensation in society whereby working people will not take any more stealth taxes or fiascos such as Irish Water. What is the Taoiseach going to do about this debacle? Will he bring forward legislation to ensure it does not happen again?
Deputy Gino Kenny is welcome and he is as entitled to ask questions as anybody else. He is doing fine. I share the view of the person who sent the e-mail to which the Deputy referred, and who supports environmental efficiency and the proper disposal of waste. I am glad the person points out the issues relating to the disposal of plastic, paper and cardboard in green bins and so on.
The Deputy also spoke about working families and the Government is really interested in giving working families a break. The former Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, introduced a statutory instrument for that purpose so that people would consider very carefully how to dispose of the waste produced by each household. By a better use of the brown and green bins, we can reduce what went into the black bins and, by reducing the weight of what was being disposed of in this way, we can reduce the overall charge. That was not going to happen under the current regime so the Minister met all the waste management companies and put in place a price freeze, agreed with them, which recognises the particular health difficulties experienced by the person who sent the e-mail to the Deputy. Some 60,000 HSE patients around the country have adult incontinence nappies and there is a substantial charge for sending them to landfill but the Government gives 100% to waste companies and 50% to the waste industry from the landfill levy. This measure is a recognition of that person's willingness to comply with good environmental practices and takes into account such people's particular challenges. From 1 January 2017, the person in question will get a dual bill setting out what he will continue to pay under the current regime and what he could save by better management of what is put into the black bin. That is in keeping with the principle expressed by the writer of the e-mail.
I do not think people are looking for a gentleman's agreement. This gentleman is with Greyhound but that company is exempt from the new charges and is not a part of the Irish Waste Management Association. This man has to stay with his provider so he cannot be exempt from any new charges.
I remember when the service was in public control, maybe ten or 12 years ago, but I do not remember any fly tipping, or at any rate it was very rare. Now it is almost contagious across the country and there is a correlation between that and the privatisation of the public refuse service. It will cost local authorities around the country millions and millions to clean it up. This service should not be privatised - it should be in public hands.
For many years waste collection was operated by local authorities but that has now changed and competition now applies. Deputy Martin raised a valid point when he spoke of the need to look at the entire structure of the management of waste disposal. This could be looked at as different systems are in operation in different parts of the country. In many places there may be only one or two suppliers, while in others there may be three or four waste company lorries providing a service on any one road. Deputy Adams said his party supported making this part of general Exchequer taxation but this would involve an increase in taxes and would put more pressure on working families. It would also do away with all the incentives referred to by the writer of the e-mail to Deputy Gino Kenny such as the proper use of the green, brown and black bins.
We are very compliant and have moved up the table in so far as the disposal of recyclable material is concerned from a European point of view and the spirit of what was introduced by the former Minister, Deputy Kelly, was to improve that further.
Do not avoid the Greyhound question.
The Minister, Deputy Coveney, has taken action on this now. He has met with representatives of the companies. There is a freeze across the board for the next 12 months.
What about Greyhound?
Can you address the issue of Greyhound? Greyhound is exempt-----
Greyhound is accepting this as well. Obviously, there is a special recognition of the challenges faced by the 60,000 people in the HSE patient category who have to use incontinence pads too.
Revoke their licences.