Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Oct 2016

Vol. 924 No. 2

Leaders' Questions

Deputy Micheál Martin

Without question, one of the most disappointing aspects of yesterday's budget from a strategic perspective was the lack of any substantial response to the challenges of Brexit. What we were presented with was a sheet entitled Getting Ireland Brexit Ready which amounted to mere tokenism and was quite pathetic in itself. All of the measures on it would have happened anyway. Some were in place in advance of any Brexit referendum. It is really extraordinary because people were promised in advance that this would be a Brexit-proofed budget. However, the reality is that it is empty with regard to Brexit.

I put it to the Taoiseach that the Government should be planning for a hard Brexit. That should be the priority rather than praying and wishing for a soft Brexit and hoping that everything will be alright on the night. The base scenario in the budget document is that the Government is assuming an exchange rate of 85p to the euro next year. Yesterday, the exchange rate was 91p to the euro. Now, the Taoiseach is betting or assuming that sterling will strengthen by more than 6% next year. It seems to me an extraordinary bet or gamble to make.

In addition to that, the Department of Foreign Affairs has seen no increase in its envelope. What Brexit opens up for us are huge challenges and, yes, some opportunities. However, trade diversification has to be won through the search for new markets and the expansion of the international footprint for Ireland to make sure that we can secure those new markets. We are hugely dependent on the British market, particularly Irish-owned companies and food and agricultural companies. Farming is going through a terrible crisis at the moment, from grain, to beef, to dairy and across the board. There is nothing substantial happening in relation to that to prepare for the even further challenges that await as a result of the British decision to leave the European Union.

Likewise, Bord Bia, Enterprise Ireland, the IDA and so on are not, in my opinion, being adequately resourced to pursue ambitious targets around re-orientating the Irish economic effort internationally as a result of Brexit, which we will have to do. We will have to find and develop new markets. We will also have to attract inward investment. I know the IDA is working to attract financial services from Britain. We also have the challenge of Irish companies that may want to relocate to the UK, for example, to secure markets there. These are very real issues that have not been addressed. The fundamental issue is the real and immediate issue of the currency crisis. IBEC and others have said that there should be contingency provision for businesses here around the devaluation of sterling and its impact on Irish companies and their export performance. Will such a contingency provision be put in place?

The Taoiseach

This is probably the greatest economic challenge facing not just Ireland but the EU in the last 50 years. The decision made by the electorate in the UK has brought about a situation of confusion, lack of certainty, great concern, anxiety and currency fluctuation that is impacting on business here and elsewhere. Our priorities are to look after the interests of our citizens, look after the interests of Ireland's economy, look after the relationship we have with both Northern Ireland and the UK, including the peace process, and look after our place in Europe for the future. Clearly, the decision has been followed by quite a number of comments from those who are dealing on behalf of the British Government on the question of Brexit and the situation that has changed from day to day. I note that this morning the Prime Minister indicated that there will be an opportunity to discuss the matter in the House of Commons and obviously statements made abroad have been changed, let me put it that way.

For us here, the immediate concern is the consequence of the devaluation of sterling against the euro and the difficulties that is causing for Irish businesses in terms of exports due to rising costs. This budget has included a number of issues that refer to Brexit. Obviously, there are new resources for the enterprise agencies. There are 50 new people to join Enterprise Ireland. I was in the RDS just last week with 140 of the people from abroad who have come back to talk about their potential sales for new markets and diversification into places like the United States, Canada or other areas in the EU.

The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Creed, is rolling out a €150 million low-interest loan for farmers with cashflow and new business supports to help them. Quite a significant extent of our exports into Britain is from the agri-sector. There is an agrifood package of tax measures and we have maintained the strong support evident here in Ireland for the hospitality sector since the VAT rate was reduced from 13.5% to 9%. We have also included the extension of the reduction on capital gains tax for entrepreneurs. Most of those are small business in Ireland with very little profit margins. They are mostly outside the Dublin region. That scheme has been extended, as has the foreign earnings deduction for businesses in which people have to travel abroad in the context of their work to look for new markets. There is also an extension to the special assignee situation that applies to companies bringing in experts with particular skills. The-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you very much, Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

There is a whole lot more, a Cheann Comhairle. Obviously, the issue that Deputy Martin has raised is one that I will continue to brief Opposition leaders on as the case may be. Today I will meet Michel Barnier who is coming here on behalf of the European Commission. I point out to the House that irrespective of the work that the Commission will do here, it will be the EU Council - the elected leaders and heads of government - that will oversee the political decisions arising from Brexit.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Taoiseach did not answer the core question of currency. The budget failed in properly addressing the Brexit issue. Any commentary on the budget in relation to Brexit is negative in opinion outside of this House and across the board. The budget is assuming a base scenario for next year of 85p sterling to the euro. Is the Taoiseach satisfied that is a solid basis on which to plan the economy for the next 12 months? I believe that is a very foolish gamble indeed. All of the measures the Taoiseach has outlined would have happened independent of Brexit. Most of them were in place prior to the Brexit referendum. All of them, in fact, were in place in one part or another in terms of the base schemes. Nothing substantial happened yesterday, which was a huge surprise to many people who expected such a package. Fundamentally, is the Government going to provide a currency crisis package for Irish industry?

That is the key question, because that is happening right now. It is not something that we have to plan for; it is actually occurring right now. We know it from the mushroom industry and horticulture generally. The impact is very real. It has resulted in a loss of jobs. A currency crisis package should have been provided for in yesterday's budget. What is the Government's position on it? Will the Taoiseach answer the question about the 85p sterling to one euro exchange rate? Is that the base scenario the Government is sticking with for the next 12 months, as outlined in the budget documents?

The Taoiseach

The Department of Finance paper did indicate that, and clearly that was not the rate sterling was operating at yesterday. Personnel from the Department of Finance, the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland have been in Brussels to make an arrangement for credit at long-term, low interest rates for businesses that will suffer here and €1 million was ring-fenced for it in yesterday's budget.

Deputy Martin asks what is the Brexit issue. Is it a hard or a soft Border? Is it the situation that the United Kingdom wants access to the Single Market? I understand that today there are comments that it may wish to contribute to join that market. This situation is quite fluid until the Prime Minister moves Article 50. Since long before the Brexit vote, we have had a situation where we have been planning for contingencies that may or may not arise. I explained this to Deputy Martin and the other leaders already and will do so again.

We are conscious that currency fluctuations may have a serious impact on businesses here. We have had evidence of it already.

Deputy Micheál Martin

There is nothing in the budget.

The Taoiseach

That is why the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine is making available €150 million in low-interest credit facilities for those in the agrisector who have exports to Britain, of which there are many with a multi-billion operation. However, we have to examine the prospect and possibility of putting together longer term low-interest facilities and our people are working on it. The sterling rate may vary depending on the situation that arises. Every time a comment has been made about Brexit, sterling has fluctuated and it has impacted on us here.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Taoiseach. Tá an t-am istigh.

The Taoiseach

Let me repeat that our concerns are for our citizens, our economy, the protection of the links we have with the peace process in Northern Ireland and the UK, and our future in Europe. We will discuss that with Mr. Barnier this afternoon also.

Deputy Gerry Adams

I want to raise an issue today that I raised with the Taoiseach previously in private. He will recall that before the summer recess I gave him a file about the tragic death of Shane O'Farrell as a result of a hit-and-run incident in County Monaghan in August 2011. Shane's mother, Lucia, is in the Visitors Gallery today. The O'Farrell family believes that their son's death was preventable and that there were multiple failings by An Garda Síochána before and after Shane's death and they question decisions made by the Director of Public Prosecutions. They believe a statutory investigation is the only way their questions will be answered.

I am sure the Taoiseach has read the file. There appears to be serious irregularities in the interactions by some gardaí with the accused. The man in question was known to Interpol. He had 42 prior convictions, including convictions for drug offences, theft, road traffic offences, malicious damage and handling stolen property. At the time he killed Shane, he was on bail from the Circuit Courts in Cavan, Monaghan and Dundalk as well as Newry Court. He continuously breached his bail conditions and re-offended.

Shockingly, two weeks before Shane's death, An Garda Síochána was notified of this man's arrest in the North by the PSNI for being in breach of his bail conditions, but the Garda failed to take action and obtain a warrant for his arrest. On the day Shane was killed, the car carrying the accused was stopped by the Garda drugs unit. It had no NCT and was not roadworthy. The accused, who was a passenger when the car was stopped, assumed the driver's role in the presence of a garda despite not being insured. At the inquest into Shane's death, the court heard that the garda at the scene felt the occupants of the car were in possession of a controlled substance, but the car was not searched. Within one hour, Shane was dead.

Eleven hours later, the accused was arrested. He was released on bail a day later. Gardaí failed to inform the judge of his convictions or the breaches of his bail conditions. In the aftermath of Shane's death, the accused committed further offences. He served a week in Wheatfield Prison for a previous offence and was also arrested in Belfast on two counts of theft. He was eventually tried for motor offences connected to Shane's death and given the option of a custodial sentence or a return to Lithuania.

How could this happen? This is a rural family contributing to the State. They are looking after and rearing their children and minding their neighbours. The Taoiseach might tell me, as has the Minister for Justice and Equality, that Shane's case is with GSOC. It has been there for four and a half years, yet with no result. The case is multi-dimensional, shocking and sickening at every turn. It merits a proper statutory investigation. Will the Taoiseach commit to one?

The Taoiseach

I recall when this accident happened. Nothing I can say or do will bring back Shane O'Farrell, although I am happy to see his mother here in the Visitors Gallery today. I have read the file Deputy Adams gave me as well as the other extensive files on this case. I am aware that there is a civil action being taken against the State and that GSOC has been carrying out an investigation.

I would like to meet Mrs. O'Farrell and hear her story myself. I will do so from a humanitarian point of view. There are processes that are always followed. Nothing will bring back Shane O'Farrell, who I understand was a brilliant young student.

The Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality recently answered questions tabled by Deputy O'Callaghan on this. She indicated that she had met the family herself, as have many others, and that she would like to have the response of GSOC, whose work was well advanced. However, as Deputy Adams points out, it has been going on for quite a while. My understanding is that GSOC wishes to interview a number of other gardaí and that the Minister will be prepared to follow through on whatever are the recommendations of GSOC.

This is a very sensitive and sad situation for the O'Farrell family. I would like to think that the very least we can do is have every possibility examined so that Shane's mother, Mrs. O'Farrell, and his sister can at least know that the situation was examined in the way it should be.

I thank Deputy Adams for giving me the file, which I did read, and for his question. I will make arrangements to meet Mrs. O'Farrell when I have an opportunity.

Deputy Gerry Adams

I thank the Taoiseach for his response and, particularly, for agreeing to meet Mrs. O'Farrell. This young lad was 23 years of age, a brilliant student at Trinity College Dublin and about to start work at the European Parliament. He was a fluent Irish speaker. He was a gentle young man with a bright future ahead of him. Lucia, Jim and their family have been robbed of their pride and joy. He was an only son.

However, this case goes beyond his tragic death. It reveals a series of grievous flaws in the management and response of the justice agencies. There are 59 complaints relating to Shane's case with GSOC, but nothing to show for them four and a half years later. This delay is causing ongoing trauma to his family. I am sure the Taoiseach agrees that all citizens must have competence in our justice system. Of course, all systems have their failings, but we all have a duty to ensure that they are of the very highest standards. It is said Shane O'Farrell cannot be brought back, but his family can get justice.

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply and his agreement to meet Shane's mother.

The family has asked for a statutory inquiry. Will the Taoiseach agree to that request today or, failing that, will he agree to make his position on the issue known after he has met Mrs. O'Farrell? Will he meet Mrs. O'Farrell as quickly as his busy schedule allows?

The Taoiseach

Yes, I will make my views known and arrange to meet Mrs. O'Farrell as soon as I have an opportunity. This is one of more than 200 cases where people feel grievously hurt on a broad range of issues across many years. A review panel was set up to look at all these cases, including the tragic death of Shane O'Farrell. The panel, which consisted of two very experienced senior counsel and five junior counsel, recommended that no further action be taken. I am not a senior counsel but my job in politics means I engage with many people. I have read the file and I will meet Mrs. O'Farrell. I will also make my views known.

I would like to think the GSOC inquiry is practically complete. That is my understanding, although that will not be of any value to people who have been waiting for so long without any clarity as to when they will have a completed document. The Minister for Justice and Equality stated she would like to get the report and, arising from that, decide what is the best option. I have no input into the civil action. It is a person's right to take a case against the State. I will meet Mrs. O'Farrell because I want to meet her on a humanitarian basis. This is one of a number of very tragic cases and, as I stated, nothing will bring back Shane O'Farrell.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

It is reported in The Irish Times this morning that the date on which social welfare increases will come into effect next year has not yet been agreed. Understandably, this has been the subject of considerable debate on national and local radio this morning. In recent months, the Labour Party argued for social welfare payments to be at least indexed. I welcome the fact that indexation has been delivered, although for some reason child benefit has been excluded from indexation and will not be increased.

That said, I cannot recall a Minister's spokesperson making an announcement on budget day that the date on which social welfare increases were to take effect had not been agreed. Apparently, such a statement was made yesterday by the spokesperson for the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Leo Varadkar, who is seated beside the Taoiseach. An increase provided on 31 March 2017 will amount to €3.75 for the year rather than €5, while an increase provided on 1 March 2017 will be a little higher. The House needs to know what the position is before continuing with the debate on the budget. People who will make plans following this modest restoration of moneys also need to know exactly when increases in payments are to be made. Has an agreement been reached in government on the date on which all increases in social welfare payments will come into effect next year or do Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil intend to split the difference and have some sort of St. Patrick's Day gift?

The Taoiseach

The position is that when we considered the possibility of increasing benefits for a range of social protection recipients, I had a very strong view that increases should apply universally across the sector and that nobody should be left out. Obviously, the extent and range of the increases cover a substantial number of people and will generate a substantial bill. A €5 increase for pensioners is better than indexation and the €5 increase in other payments, including those to widows, blind people, the unemployed, the disabled and persons in receipt of invalidity benefits, is a little better than indexation would deliver. The payments will be made across the month of March and the matter will be dealt with in detail by the Minister for Social Protection when the social welfare Bill is published. That is the position as of now.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

I am afraid that is not a satisfactory position. The Taoiseach and I worked together for five years and even in the worst of times, we did not publish a budget document without knowing the precise figures. The Government has published tables that will be debated in the House. There is a cost involved for every week a payment is made. Will all the increases in social welfare benefits be paid in the same week? Will recipients of the pension, the blind pension, disability benefit and carer's allowance receive increases on the same day or will the increases be staggered? Alternatively, are all these matters still under discussion? If the latter is the case, it would be an unacceptable situation. Before the House embarks on the budget debate in a few minutes, Deputies need to know the dates on which social welfare increases are to be made.

The Taoiseach

Subject to the passage of the social welfare Bill, people will be in a position to receive their payments. The Bill will be published in two weeks.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Are the documents outlining the costings accurate?

The Taoiseach

All the costings are fully available. People say they would like to have the payments made as early as possible in the new year but all these things cost money.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

The Government must make a decision because that is what Governments do.

The Taoiseach

The Government did not have an endless pot at its disposal. The position is that the Bill will be published in two weeks. I hope it receives the support of all Members because so many people receive a universal payment. The details and dates will be available when the Bill is published and processed.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

It is surreal that on the day after a budget, the leader of the country is not questioned by the largest party in the so-called Opposition. I will take this opportunity to question him because the budget produced by Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and the Independents was billed in advance as a reparations budget, one which was meant to compensate those who were sacrificed in the eight-year bailout of the bankers and developers. People are looking at the budget details over their cornflakes this morning and asking whether this is it. While very little was given back to low and middle income workers and pensioners and even less was given back to young people who are unemployed, builders, landlords and people who are due an inheritance were rewarded as were businesses, which are due a windfall.

As long as the Government is working off a tiny fiscal space of €1.2 billion, it is inevitable that life will not improve for the majority of people. Today's edition of The Irish Times features a comment piece arguing that the budget no longer matters because the figure involved is only €1.3 billion. The Anti-Austerity Alliance agrees with that view. The debate about the fiscal space is completely false because the vast majority of the €230 billion produced in Ireland every year is untapped and untaxed.

In the time available to me, I will focus on one measure, namely, the much lauded centrepiece proposal on child care. I ask the Taoiseach to clarify the proposal for the nation and families. The new payment will be means tested for a relatively small number of households with a maximum income of €47,500 who happen to have their children in a crèche for 40 hours per week. How many families will gain from the payment?

The universal subsidy ends at the age of three years, but, obviously, child care continues for a lot longer.

My main issue is this. Will the Taoiseach clarify whether people who use childminders will be included in the scheme? There is talk out of two or three sides of the Government's mouth on the issue. Nurses, shift and part-time workers and those on zero-hour contracts do not have their children in a crèche from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., but they may have a child care worker or a minder collecting their children, yet they have completely been left out of this proposal. Will they be included and, if so, when?

Where is Scandinavian child care system people in this country were promised? We know that UNICEF recommends that a figure of 1% of GDP be spent; we spend 0.2%. The Scandinavian countries have higher corporation tax rates. In Denmark the rate is 24.5%; in Norway, 27% and Sweden, 22%. As long as Ireland continues to be a tax haven, we will not be able to provide affordable child care services in this country.

The Taoiseach

This and the previous Government prioritised children and their central importance in Irish society. That is why we had the appointment of a Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, a referendum to enshrine the rights of children in the Constitution and set up and funded Tusla, the Child and Family Agency. The Minister, Deputy Katherine Zappone, is following on the work already done in facilitating free GP care for every child under six years. The introduction of a second pre-school year is being followed by her reflections and proposals on how we can draw together the many disparate elements of child care in an effective, co-ordinated and comprehensive system that will both have a universal and a focused and targeted element for those at work, given the cost of child care in this country which is among the highest in Europe. The second free pre-school year is saving parents on average of some €4,000 per child. Some 127,000 benefit from it, while 65,000 can benefit from the introduction of two weeks' paternity leave. As I said, added to this, free GP care for the under-sixes benefits the parents of over 435,000 children.

This year, obviously, people have to make a choice. Sometimes mothers will decide to stay at home or to have their children looked after by other members of the family such as grandparents and so on while they are at work. We are very clear that what happens in the early years really benefits children into adulthood. The budget is following through on progress in that regard. The home carers tax credit will be increased by 10% to €1,100 from 1 January. The new affordable child care scheme will commence in September next year. As I said, it will have both a universal and a targeted element. In respect of childminders who are members of the family such as grandparents who are not registered, clearly, the Government recognises the work they do as an essential part of family life, as it has been for generations. However, if the State wishes to subsidise child care, we need to know where the children are and who their childminders are. That is a responsibility with which the State has to comply. Childminders in that situation with children in the home can, of course, register with Tusla first if they wish to benefit, but that is a choice they have to make.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Taoiseach has not answered the question. I was not asking about a family member, a grandmother or anyone else, minding a child out of kindness, rather I was asking about childminders, people who are qualified to do so. On the scheme the Government has implemented, it was announced yesterday that only Tusla-run child care centres would be included; therefore, the Government is excluding a huge number of parents, particularly those with more than one child, where it would be more economical for them to have a childminder minding two or three children. The Taoiseach did not prioritise children. This is the first Government in a long time which has not increased child benefit in a budget, as has been remarked on. Who advised the Taoiseach on the budget? Was it Michael O'Leary, whom he invited to the Fine Gael think-in-----

Deputy Marcella Corcoran Kennedy

He was not there.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

-----at which there was brilliant applause and they all laughed and clapped at his jokes? Was it he who was introduced by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, as Ireland's leading altogether decent person, who had castigated RTE, the public sector, bus workers and practically everybody else, or was it Tom Parlon? There is one measure the Taoiseach introduced for which he has to answer. Nobody had advocated for a first-time buyer's grant. The housing committee had not done so, yet Tom Parlon apparently did and he gets what he wants. It will not even apply to cheaper second-hand homes for young people.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry, but the Deputy may only raise one matter during Leaders' Questions.

The Taoiseach

I completely reject Deputy Ruth Coppinger's assertion that the Government has not focused on children.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

What about child benefit?

The Taoiseach

We have just given, for the first time ever, 11,000 medical cards to children in respect of whom a domiciliary care allowance is paid. It was an issue for years but was unable to be touched. However, it has now been dealt with. The Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris, has achieved the highest budget ever for the health service, much of which will be focused on the provision of facilities for children. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Richard Bruton, is employing 2,500 new teachers next year and there will also be a serious capital programme to provide school facilities. I, therefore, reject the Deputy's assertion completely. Resource and special needs teachers have an impact on children's lives. I do not accept from the Deputy that the Government has not focused on children as a priority.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

What about child benefit?

The Taoiseach

That is why children are represented by a Minister at the Cabinet table and, for the first time ever, there is a really serious injection of finance that will help thousands of people with child care costs which are very expensive.

Deputy Joan Burton

Just €32 million has been allocated in the budget.

The Taoiseach

All of these things will contribute to a reduction in the level of child poverty and are to the benefit of parents, whether they be single or part of a couple.

An Ceann Comhairle

In accordance with the order of the House of last week, we will have two further sessions of Leaders' Questions to compensate for the fact that we did not have Leaders' Questions yesterday. I will proceed to the fifth question.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The EPSEN Act was passed in 2005. It deals with special education and was meant to confer statutory rights on children with special needs in terms of assessment and the provision of individual education plans. What is quite extraordinary is that 11 years on key sections of the legislation have never been commenced. It is those sections which confer on children the right to an assessment and to have an individual education plan. The sections that have been commenced relate fundamentally to policy, the establishment of the special education review council and other structural elements of the Act. However, the parts of it that give rights to children have never been commenced.

When one talks to parents of children with special needs, it is very disturbing to learn about the obstacles they have to face in seeking basic assessments for their young children in order that the education provisions made can properly respond to their complex needs. In terms of psychological services, for example, most principals will say they have to play God every year and that, in terms of the availability of the National Educational Psychological Service, they have to select from a large number of children who can avail of the two psychological assessments provided in the school. On physiotherapists, occupational therapists and speech and language therapists, there is appalling provision for children with special needs. The current model, situated in the HSE, is simply not working. Progressing disability services is a myth.

It will never happen. It is the wrong model because it takes children out of the classroom. What is required is a multidisciplinary response in the classroom or education setting whereby the physiotherapist, occupational therapist and speech and language therapist work with the teaching professionals and an adequately resourced psychological service to attend to the needs of children with special needs. In yesterday's budget, the provision in that area was unclear but it is critical to the proper development of the child that he or she has access to a proper, timely assessment of his or her particular condition or special need.

It speaks volumes that no one within the system has ever taken it upon himself or herself to say the sections of the EPSEN Act that are key to the rights of the child have never been commenced. The Act was passed 11 years ago in the midst of considerable debate, which I remember well. The failure to commence the sections probably goes to the heart of why advocacy for children with special needs is still missing in our education system. Could the Taoiseach indicate why the relevant sections of the Act have not been commenced?

The Taoiseach

This has dragged on for a very long time. The Stack report, which was produced by a former inspector in the Department of Education and Skills, has set out a new pilot scheme for the early assessment of children in a way that is radically different from what has applied up to now. This budget has increased the number of resource teachers by 46% and special needs assistants by 22%. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Richard Bruton, is working on a new model to strengthen the function and capacity of resource teaching in schools, which will deal with this. The changes over time will allow for the fulfilment of the remaining sections of the EPSEN Act that remain to be dealt with.

There was an increase in funding for the disability sector yesterday. Obviously, the moving of the speech and language therapists into schools will be of enormous help in terms of the multidisciplinary approach the Deputy rightly refers to. The Minister is considering that but would like to see the impact of a number of pilot schemes first.

Not everything is included in this budget but there is a significant increase in the number of resource teachers and special needs assistants and a strengthening of the functions and capabilities of resource teachers under the model. A number of pilot schemes on the moving of multidisciplinary skills into schools are being examined. The Minister is anxious to see how that might work in practice.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I have long been campaigning for therapists to go into the school classroom. That was the case with special schools until Progressing Disability came along. It is threatening to dilute the presence of such therapists in the special schools. The arrangement should be extended into mainstream schools across the country.

My key question for the Taoiseach is based on the fact that the sections of the EPSEN Act that have been commenced relate to general matters concerning the establishment of the special education review council. Those sections that have not been commenced are those that relate to educational assessment for all children with special educational needs, the consequent development of a statutory individual education plan, the delivery of detailed education services on foot of this plan, the designation of schools mandated to take in children with special needs, and the duty of the Minister for Health and Minister for Children and Youth Affairs to make resources available. Fundamentally, I accept that the special education review council is doing what it can in the absence of this legislation and progressing with pilot schemes and so on, but the reality is that thousands of children do not have the key access they require, particularly to early assessment. This is so much so that the Stack group is now progressing with an idea whereby there should be no assessment, just provision. I understand that people want-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should conclude.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I accept that point, but this only arises because the Act is not in place and does not provide for the assessment of children at the earliest stage possible.

Does the Taoiseach not accept that, at the very minimum, someone in the Departments responsible for education and health and the Taoiseach's Department should have reviewed all this and identified the obstacles and policy response required to confer basic rights on children with regard to the assessment of their conditions? We are going nowhere if we do not have the assessment. I refer to how the system can respond properly to a child's needs.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are significantly over time.

The Taoiseach

I did actually address this. I will send the Deputy a copy of the Stack report if he has not read it. It sets out a whole new model for the early assessment-----

Deputy Micheál Martin

I met those concerned and know all about them. I am talking about the Act.

The Taoiseach

That is all right. Yesterday's budget provided 1,000 extra staff to deal with special needs children in schools. This will be of major benefit to parents and particularly the children.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

The housing crisis rolls on and its cause is the lack of supply. Would-be developers and building contractors cannot start building in the private sector as they cannot borrow from many of our mainstream banks. The banks will not lend them any money. Would-be builders do not have any money of their own and the only option is to borrow from lending institutions outside the State that are imposing interest rates with double-digit figures. Can the Government intervene and ascertain why banks in this country will not lend to developers or building contractors? That is where we have to start.

The second blockage is the amount of levies and State taxes being demanded from developers and building contractors. Grant Thornton carried out an independent review and found that the levies, taxes and VAT amount to 37% of the cost of building a house. Can the Taoiseach do something to reduce these charges? Local government levies for road, water and sewage infrastructure are very excessive. Can the Taoiseach intervene here? Builders cannot start without a water connection. It is fine paying the full cost of the water connection but the trouble is the levy. It costs builders a lot of money, which must be paid up-front. They cannot pay it up-front. This has to be addressed if we are to resolve the housing crisis. VAT, taxes and PAYE for workers have to be paid in every two months even though the builder will not be paid for the house or any part of it until it is completed and the key is turned in the door. The Minister responsible must deal with these issues.

Previously, the builder or developer was paid in stages when a house was bought from the plans. On the first stage, the builder was paid for the site. A second instalment was paid when the building was at ground-floor level, and a third was paid when the roof was on. The last payment was demanded only when the house was finished. New rules mean the builder now cannot be paid until the house is totally finished. This regulation was put in place to deal with rogue builders but most builders, or 95%, were always fine. The 5% could be dealt with by having quality or standard checks organised by an independent body, established by the Government, or the building control officials in the local authorities. Payment should be allowed at different stages. Builders will not even dream of starting under the present arrangement. They must take all the risk and deal with all the safety regulations and the burden of waiting for money, finishing up with a profit margin of 2% to 3% because of the cost of their loans, if they get them.

The Taoiseach

From that, I believe Deputy Danny Healy-Rae has built all the houses we need. I should send him a copy of the Minister's programme for house-building. It covers all these areas across five different pillars, ranging from homelessness and social housing to the responsibilities of local authorities, costs for builders or developers, both in towns and rural areas, and money being put up to demonstrate that we can get back to a point where the real problem, the supply of houses, can be dealt with. Part of that was included in the budget yesterday, with a targeted, focused initiative for the provision of new houses.

As the Deputy is aware, the Government made available a €200 million fund so that local authorities could open up sites that are currently inaccessible and where roads or bridges might be needed. There are opportunities for the local authorities, which have the devolved authority in setting the levies for builders, to deal with such applications by payment upfront which is then returned, depending on whether the houses are built on time and to standard. Many variations can be followed through by the local authorities with the builders or developers of houses. There is a full range of initiatives in that regard as well as decisions to be taken. Builders will not build houses unless they make a profit. The cost of some of these was prohibitive in the past and, with the collapse of the construction sector, we are now way behind in the supply that is needed. The decision yesterday on that targeted initiative was for the building of new houses to deal with supply. Yes, there will be arguments that if the VAT level is reduced, a better result will be achieved. The important thing is that there is a timelined initiative in this area. There is a three-year timescale so that builders will have the opportunity to provide houses for those who wish to avail of them and avail of this targeted initiative.

The housing programme is much broader than this. It seeks to deal with the social housing challenge we face, the homeless and the return of voids to a situation where they can be used and lived in by families. This is the most comprehensive housing programme ever produced by any Government, and it is being rolled out now right across the country. The points the Deputy made as to when a deposit might be paid are relevant and when the first, third, fourth or fifth payment will be made. However, the issue has moved on since then. We need a prioritised set of initiatives to make this happen if we are to deal with supply because when that cannot be dealt with, rents and house prices go up, which is not in the interest of those who have an opportunity to get their own houses.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

Nothing has moved on and nothing is moving, and that is the truth of it. I am not happy with the Taoiseach's answer because he moved away from the two questions I asked him to deal with. If he keeps doing that, we will finish up where we are with no house being built. The fact of the matter is that developers cannot access money in this country at present and they do not have money of their own because they have been out of business for the past eight or nine years. That is one problem. The other problem is that the levies, taxes and VAT, which amount to 37% of the cost of the building of the house, must be paid upfront. I ask the Government to intervene here and do something about this. It can have all the pies in the skies and all the notions and all the strategies but they will amount to nothing if it does not deal with the fundamental problem, which is money for the builders to get them going. Maybe if they were rolling for two or three years again, they could keep rolling, but they cannot even start now because they cannot access money. It is not available from any Irish bank, and if they get money it is at a cost of 10% or 12.5% and it is from outside the country. That is not fair. If the Government does not address these two issues, it can keep developing strategies and printing books and papers, but it will not result in houses and we will finish up where we are, that is, nowhere.

The Taoiseach

I am sure the Deputy does not want to go back to having ghost estates, unfinished houses and builders going bust. There was previously very little regulation in this country over the amount of money that could be borrowed by builders. Loans of 100% were being made available and houses were then being sold on because of the profit that could be made on them. That all went bust, and Deputy Healy-Rae has evidence of it in his county, where there were ghost estates and unfinished houses before the sector collapsed. The same rules cannot be applied today. It is different and it must be so because we will not go back to that situation. That means that builders looking to get into the business of developing houses must have a basic level of capacity to obtain credit themselves because they will not be able to borrow 100% from banks. That requirement was brought in because of what happened. How many hundreds of thousands of young people looking for houses were left in the lurch because builders went wallop and because of the lending processes? If we are to build houses now, we will build them in a proper fashion, which will be overseen, so that people can have affordable houses to live in. To help with this, the Minister has made available, with Government approval, a whole range of initiatives for builders to get back into business. I have heard what the Construction Industry Federation has said about this. If these targets are met, there will be an explosion in building, which will be very good, if properly monitored, and in the interest of thousands of people who can fulfil their aspirations to have a house. However, it will not be done in the way in which attempts were being made before. Times have changed.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

The Taoiseach has gone west again.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Yes.