Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Nov 2016

Vol. 928 No. 1

Leaders' Questions

Deputy Micheál Martin

I presume the Taoiseach is familiar with the research produced by Daft.ie - Crisis in the rental market worsens. An extraordinary set of figures have been produced which go to the heart of undermining social cohesion in our society, as well as causing wider problems with inward investment, preparing for it and the quality of life for many people in our cities and across the country. In short, average rents in Dublin have soared to an all-time high over the past 12 months to €1,350. Average rents nationwide are at €1,077. In Dublin, rents have gone up 12%. In Louth, they have gone up by 15%, in Meath by 15.8% and in Kildare by 13%. The whole commuter belt has seen significant rent increases. In Cork, they have gone up by 14%, in Galway by 11%, Limerick by 13% and Waterford by 11%.

These are the largest rent increases ever recorded by Daft.ie since reports began in 2002. This is an extraordinary crisis facing many people in our society. Over the past several years, the Government has been bereft of any response to this growing and worsening crisis. The impacts of it are stark and disastrous. Ronan Lyons, the economist in Trinity College Dublin who compiled the report, made the point that it is disastrous for social cohesion and Irish competitiveness. With the public pay and general pay rise demands, much of this is connected to the costs that people have in their everyday lives. For people working in Dublin and in other cities as well as elsewhere, rent is now the most significant cost facing them. This is feeding into the demands on the pay side which will feed into our competitiveness.

The big issue coming out of Brexit, where there might be some silver lining, is our capacity to attract inward investment. That is now problematic because of the housing situation, the high level of rents and our ability to make our cities attractive to bringing in investment from such financial services companies.

It is also exacerbating the homelessness crisis because the Kelly reforms, if I may use that phrase, have not worked. In fact, many landlords turfed out existing tenants, brought in new tenants and dramatically increased the rents. Therefore, homelessness represents a further outcome of the rental situation. We are now in the incredible position in which many young couples are trapped in the rental market. It is now actually cheaper to buy a house and service the mortgage than to rent a house. However, owing to the Central Bank rules and so on, many young couples are trapped in the rental market and cannot save the amount necessary to take out a mortgage. What does the Government propose to do? The report points to the need to deal with construction costs, particularly in the apartment sector, as one way of dealing with this.

The Taoiseach

There is no doubt but that this is a problem. It is a serious problem that is exacerbated by the circumstances of recent years. There has been an inadequate supply of housing, and that is why the central focus of the housing action plan being brought forward and implemented now by the Minister responsible for housing is to increase the supply of houses. This will create more opportunities for people to get accommodation and, therefore, it will address the problem of increasing rents, which represents a real problem for many.

It is accepted that there are acute pressures in the rental market now. I have outlined one of the focus areas of the five pillars of the housing programme being put together by the Minister. The pillars are to help families to meet their needs, to deal with affected individuals, from rough sleepers and homeless people to those in hotel rooms and bed and breakfasts, and to help young couples who are not able to avail of an opportunity to buy their own house.

I have already said in the House that the private rental sector strategy will be brought forward by the Minister responsible for housing in the next few weeks. He has already started a serious consultation process involving a wide range of people dealing with the housing and rental sectors. They have been invited to attend and contribute to the strategy. The focus will be on four key areas. The first is security. Greater security will be afforded to landlords and tenants. The second is supply, the objective being to maintain existing levels of rental stock and encourage investment in additional supply. The third area is standards, which involves improving the quality and management of rental accommodation. The fourth area is services, and it involves broadening and strengthening the role and powers of the RTB so it can provide its services more effectively and empower both tenants and landlords. We will see a number of improvements in place before the year's end that will have to be legislatively based. There will be new measures to ensure tenancies remain in situ where a landlord proposes to sell more than 20 units in a single development. We have had experience of this already. There are to be enhanced enforcement and dispute-resolution powers for the RTB and revised standards of accommodation in the rental sector, with new regulations to be finalised in the next couple of weeks.

The overarching objective of the strategy for the rental sector, which will be in place by the end of the year, is to increase supply and support the development of a stable, strong and viable renal sector offering more choice for households and investment opportunities for providers and reflecting both the rights and responsibilities of tenants and landlords.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

What about rent control?

Deputy Micheál Martin

It is not today or yesterday that this began.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy is right.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Government of which the Taoiseach has been a member for the past two or three years has been dithering on the rent issue. There has been nothing coming from it. The Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, was with the former Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Fianna Fáil opposed rent control.

An Ceann Comhairle

Could we have order, please?

Deputy Micheál Martin

The key point is that the Daft.ie report identifies the cost of building apartments as a major problem on the supply side. It is stated the cost is way beyond our incomes and the costs in other societies. The cost of building is one aspect that the Government has not dealt with.

It is a significant factor in the restricted supply of apartment developments and so on across the country.

Another issue is that of bringing vacant properties back into use. According to the CSO's preliminary census, 200,000 houses in the private and public sectors across the country are vacant. It is an incredible figure. There is no strategy to incentivise their return to the market. These are practical issues on which to focus but in respect of which nothing has been done.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy, but his time is up.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Why has it taken so long to have a comprehensive private rental strategy, given the problems of recent years?

The Taoiseach

I absolutely agree with the Deputy.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Surprise, surprise.

Deputy Gerry Adams

That is obvious.

The Taoiseach

As Deputy Micheál Martin said, it is not today or yesterday that this began. He is right. Remember Priory Hall. Remember the pyrite homes.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I do.

The Taoiseach

Remember the ghost estates. Remember the 100,000 people who left the country because of the collapse of the financial services and because of the collapse of the construction sector. That is why, and that is where it happened. A Tánaiste stood over here and said that we needed no more taxes because the construction sector was going to drive the whole lot for us - remember that? - and stunted the market completely. That is the reason for it and the Deputy knows that very well.

If one cannot deal with supply, one cannot deal with the upward pressure on rents. I agree that we need more landlords and tenants. We have to do something in respect of the cost of building. That is why the Minister put up €200 million for the opening up of sites that are currently not accessible to local authorities or private builders.

Deputy Micheál Martin

That is a different matter to do with enabling, but this is about cost.

The Taoiseach

If one builds apartments, one must build them all before one can sell them. It is different than the traditional activity of building 100 houses and selling them on as one goes, making a profit and continuing on with that.

The rental strategy will be in place before Christmas. We had a Cabinet sub-committee meeting just this week. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, is working very hard to introduce it and I hope that everybody will give his or her views. We need security for the tenants. We also need responsibility for the landlords and longer-term leases so that people can have that sense of security for the time ahead.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

What about rent control?

Deputy Gerry Adams

This morning, we heard the verdict of the people of the USA in national electoral contests. The Republicans now control the Senate and the House of Representatives, but the most important of these contests was the presidential election. Mr. Donald Trump has now been elected to be the 45th President of the United States of America. The people of the USA have spoken and the onus is clearly on the President-elect to represent all of its people and play a positive and progressive role in world affairs. That obligation must include maintaining the positive engagement that successive US Presidents have had with Ireland. It also means resolving the issue of the 50,000 undocumented Irish living in North America.

Ní féidir linn dearmad a dhéanamh ar ról na Stát Aontaithe sa phróiseas síochána. Tá súil agam go leanfaidh sé sin ar aghaidh. Uniquely, the Irish peace process has had the support of Republican and Democratic leaders in the House of Representatives and the Senate. I am sure that this will continue, in particular under the leadership of Congressman Richie Neal and Congressman Peter King.

I commiserate with Ms Hillary Clinton. As First Lady, Senator for New York and Secretary of State, she was always engaged with Ireland. Like her husband, former President Bill Clinton, she has remained interested in developing and supporting the peace process. She has been a good friend to the people of this island and I extend my thanks and best wishes to her and her family.

I will also take this opportunity to thank President Barack Obama for his engagement with the peace process. His special envoy, Mr. Gary Hart, has made an important contribution to resolving difficulties and has been an advocate of continued dialogue. The Obama administration facilitated the involvement of Dr. Richard Haass and Professor Meghan O'Sullivan, who chaired an all-party group on issues relating to parades, flags, emblems and the past. I state all of this just to give the House a short insight into what the Taoiseach knows has been the contribution thus far.

The key challenge for the Taoiseach will be to ensure that support for the peace process continues under the new administration over the coming four years and that the new President continues to play a positive role. This is even more important, given the challenges of Brexit. When does the Taoiseach intend to speak to President-elect Trump and how does the Government intend to meet these challenges?

The Taoiseach

The people of the United States made a very clear choice in their election yesterday and, both by the popular and collegiate vote, have elected Donald Trump to be President and Mike Pence to be Vice President. I have written to both men this morning congratulating them on behalf of the Government and the people of Ireland. I pointed out that we remembered Hillary Clinton for the work that she did during the years, with her husband, in the peace process and for being a good friend to Ireland in general. I also pointed out to the President-elect that the Government would continue to work very closely with his new administration, as all previous administrations here had worked with whatever President had been elected in the United States. I made the point that the changed situation in both the US Senate and Congress meant that the Republican Party would be in a position, if it so wished, to bring forward a comprehensive Bill on immigration which should be able to deal with undocumented Irish people. Deputy Gerry Adams will recall that Senator John McCain who has been re-elected on this occasion was co-sponsor of major immigration legislation, with the late former Senator Ted Kennedy. Obviously, we will endeavour to have that legislation put back on the agenda with the new administration when President-elect Trump sets it up.

On the peace process and the support the United States has always given to it, we will start the process of making acquaintance with, and arrangements to meet, the relevant personnel in the new US administration. We will make a request for an opportunity to speak to the President-elect. As I said, I wrote to him and the Vice President-elect formally this morning on behalf of the Government and the Irish people. We intend to work very closely with the new administration on the matters mentioned by Deputy Gerry Adams and others of wider import.

Deputy Gerry Adams

As the Taoiseach said, one of the massive issues has to be the plight of the 50,000 undocumented Irish. As he recounted, President Obama did try to make progress on that issue, but he was blocked in Congress. That blocking may and, arguably, is likely to continue. In fairness to him, the Taoiseach has raised the issue many times, as I have. I appeal to him to persist in the time ahead.

The big challenge, particularly following Brexit, is to sustain White House support for the Good Friday Agreement and the peace process. Sinn Féin has never taken that support for granted. Irish America is the bridge between this island and the policy makers in the White House and Congress. That is why we engage so fully with our friends there. They have kept faith in the quest for peace on this island and with the very legitimate and necessary objective of Irish unity. We must all do what we can to encourage and support this work.

Alongside the plight of the undocumented Irish and whatever economic challenges new White House policies might present, there is a need to sustain and increase the very considerable contribution from the USA to the peace process. I ask the Taoiseach to assure the Dáil that this will be a primary objective of his Government and that he will go about and press ahead with achieving it consistently and strategically.

The Taoiseach

Yes, the Deputy can be so assured and take it that I will be seeking the support of everybody in this House in the national interest and the interests of the people. I am sure everybody will support the Deputy's call. I would like to set out our range of priorities, of which the President-elect will be informed in good time before his administration is appointed. They obviously include US support for the peace process which it has given since before the Good Friday Agreement and our continuous request that the United States deal in a substantial way with the 50,000 undocumented young Irish men and women. There are other issues that we will set out, too. The Deputy can rest assured that, as far as the Government is concerned, we will start very early to acquaint the new US administration with and inform it of our priorities, on which we will follow through as diligently as we can. The Government will keep the party leaders informed of progress.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

For weeks, I and others have been raising questions with the Taoiseach about his Government's preparedness to handle the escalating industrial unrest in the public sector. It took a last-minute breakthrough at the Labour Court a week ago to prevent the first all-out strike by An Garda Síochána in our nation's history. The cost of the deal that was done to keep An Garda Síochána on the beat will amount to much more than the €40 million or €50 million the Government has priced it at so far. Disruption of more than 500 secondary schools has, thankfully, been temporarily averted but there is still no clear line of sight to the end of that dispute. Day after day, matters get worse. On Tuesday, it was revealed that junior doctors will ballot over industrial action if they fail to secure the return of their accommodation allowance. Yesterday, the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, became the latest union to announce that it was proceeding to ballot on industrial action.

For weeks, I have tried to put the case for mechanisms to avert ongoing industrial unrest but the Taoiseach has resisted any initiative to put the Government ahead of the curve and to maintain the very precious industrial peace in the public sector that we have enjoyed over recent years. Repeating the mantra that the Lansdowne Road agreement is the only show in town is no longer tenable. A queue of public sector union leaders - the people who negotiated this agreement - say publicly that the terms of the agreement have been breached. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform announced yesterday that the Government had reiterated its commitment to a collective approach to industrial relations and pay policy. As the Taoiseach knows, that is quite different to sticking to the Lansdowne Road agreement. The language used by Government was opaque. I want the Taoiseach to spell it out now. Am I right in saying that the Government has finally accepted that there is a need for a successor agreement to the Lansdowne Road agreement to be negotiated now - much earlier than the date indicated so far - so that public servants can have a clear path to pay restoration?

If so, will the Taoiseach also adopt the other suggestion I have been pushing for some time now, namely, to create a discussion that is broader than pay to make sure that public servants are involved in conversations about the investment that is needed in public services because I know that gardaí, nurses, teachers, doctors and public servants of all hues want to ensure that their services are maintained and enhanced as well as their own pay? It is already very late in the day for the Government to be proactive and forward thinking on the crucial issue of public service pay but it is not too late. Will the Taoiseach act now to prevent a free-for-all?

The Taoiseach

Deputy Howlin seems to have reversed some engines himself on this matter but that is a point of view. He and I had discussions previously when he was in a different position about holding lines very clearly. In fairness to him, I have often said that he stood his ground very fast and clear. I welcome the fact the ASTI is now in discussions and I hope that those discussions will lead to an end to some of the industrial disputes it has in respect of supervision and substitution and the money on the table for new entrant teachers. I am glad the INMO has stated very clearly that it supports the Lansdowne Road agreement.

Deputy Howlin asked me a direct question about whether I accept that there is a need for a successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement. The answer to that question is "yes". Do I say that it should take place now? The Public Service Pay Commission needs to be able to start its work. That is representative of a very broad range of exceptionally qualified people and they are entitled to look at the broader question raised by Deputy Howlin if they so wish. This question concerns having work conducted in respect of pay, conditions and broader issues relating to any of the sectors that are in there. We remain fully committed to the Lansdowne Road agreement and I have said this very clearly but we also need a successor to it. The fact that the Public Service Pay Commission has already started its work is an important element here. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform does not have endless resources, no more than Deputy Howlin had.

We are not concerned only about the public sector and public services which people work very hard to provide; we have 3 million of the population, many of whom are self-employed and involved in small businesses. Jobs were lost by the hundreds and thousands in the time of recession. We need to strike a balance and have continued prudent management of the economy in order that we will move ahead as a country at a time when there are obviously complexities with Brexit and other issues internationally because of the economic climate. We support taking a collective approach to dealing with this matter. I greatly value the work that will take place with the public pay commission. I recognise that there has to be a successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement and obviously would like the Labour Court's proposal to be reflected and voted on by the GRA and the AGSI in due course. The Government will, of course, have to take all of these things into account.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

I think the Taoiseach will acknowledge that the Haddington Road agreement was negotiated in the worst of times and the Lansdowne Road agreement in better times as the economy improved. However, the commitment to the public sector unions was always that as the economy improved the legislation which had formed basis on which public sector pay had been cut - the FEMPI legislation - would have to be repealed, but it needs to be done in an orderly way. Does the Taoiseach accept this? Does he understand it is subject to legal challenge at any time? Without a negotiated settlement, there is a danger that the agreement might collapse entirely, that the FEMPI legislation might collapse. I ask the Taoiseach to confirm that the cost of the Garda pay deal which was approved by the Government will be €40 million or €50 million and that it will be part of the published Government arithmetic. Does he expect additional knock-on costs to be met from the published Estimates for next year?

The Taoiseach

The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has spelled out his estimate of the cost. He has also said there is no intention of increasing taxes to generate money to pay for it; it must come from within the public budget.

On the Haddington Road and Lansdowne Road agreements, obviously the Lansdowne Road agreement allows for an initiation of a reduction and retraction of the FEMPI legislation. That has been done in the case of opportunities for new teachers and other sectors because the Lansdowne Road agreement allows for a difference in the conclusion of discussions, depending on who is being dealt with. In that context, the Minister set out the cost. It is necessary to have an orderly plan to deal with the eventual successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement and that is very much on the Minister's mind.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The world awoke this morning to learn that Donald Trump had been elected to be President of the United States of America. Last year the Taoiseach said that when he got to meet Donald Trump face to face, he would tell him that he had racist views and that he was a racist. When does he think that will happen? From what I am hearing today, the leaders of the three biggest parties in this Parliament are sending congratulations to Donald Trump when all three of them raised huge problems with things he said in the very recent past. Speaking on radio, former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern told us we should have a love-in with a man who was a racist, a misogynist, a homophobe and many other things besides. Rather than sending congratulations to Donald Trump, this Parliament and the people of this country would prefer if we expressed sympathy and support for every single person of colour, every immigrant, every LGBT person, every Muslim and, of course, every woman in America who is in danger of Donald Trump acting out some of his policies.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

May we have order for Deputy Ruth Coppinger, please?

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Does the Taoiseach agree that the best support we can give is to people to ensure he does not act out on them? He has now been elected and will not change suddenly. More in-depth analysis will obviously take place when the results are fully analysed.

It speak volumes about the neo-liberal policies that in the past few years have alienated many millions of people in America which is the richest country in the world. These policies are quite similar to those of the Taoiseach in that the barons on Wall Street were bailed out and rescued and are now enjoying the fruits of the recovery in America. The 20 richest people in America possess the same wealth as the bottom half of American society. Under President Obama's Democrats administration, the level of income equality has actually grown four times faster than under President George W. Bush. Is it not a totally dysfunctional capitalist, electoral and economic system that puts a choice before the American people of either electing a billionaire developer or a creature of Wall Street? The inequality of which I spoke could never be tapped into by a candidate like Hillary Clinton who represents Walmart with its food banks for its own workers, who supports fracking, who refused to stand with the indigenous people at Standing Rock and who rejoiced publicly when bombs were dropped on Libya and Pakistan. Perhaps the Taoiseach might tell us when he will be true to what he said about Donald Trump before the election.

The Taoiseach

The people of the United States have made a democratic decision. By their votes at the ballot box, by the popular vote and the college vote, they chose to elect Donald Trump to be President. I recall a comment I made in the Dáil when I believe I was asked by Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett if I would agree that comments made in the heat of battle in a primary by the President-elect before he was nominated as a candidate were racists and dangerous and I said "Yes." I listened very carefully to the President-elect this morning and the first thing he said was that it was time to heal wounds, build partnerships and work constructively with all the people of the United States and with every other country that wanted to work with him. I have a difference of opinion with Deputy Ruth Coppinger, but in the democratic sense I was happy to congratulate her when she was returned to this House in a democracy that allowed her to say what she has just said. That is absolutely her right.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I am sure the Taoiseach was delighted.

The Taoiseach

I do not have any problem with that.

Deputy Regina Doherty

It adds to the spice of life.

The Taoiseach

All of the good stuff, as the Deputy calls it, does not come from that side of the House only. Deputy Tony McLoughlin is present. Single-handedly he has I think put an end to fracking in the State for quite a long time. Perhaps Deputy Ruth Coppinger might congratulate him.

Deputy Micheál Martin

We started that one. Where is the Bill?

Deputy Brendan Smith

The Taoiseach has had a fracking moment.

The Taoiseach

I am very happy that the Government will work very closely with the new administration when it is appointed by the President-elect on the issues to which I pointed for Deputy Gerry Adams, including his valid question about the peace process and Northern Ireland, as well as on the undocumented Irish in the United States, immigration and many other social, political and economic issues, including job opportunities, that arise between Ireland and the United States. I will be happy to deal with the President-elect in a very constructive way, as he has announced to the world that his administration will work to heal wounds in America and to have the American people unite in their country's development and that he wants to form partnerships with like-minded countries to work in the interests of providing opportunities for everybody.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

It has become clear from the election that there is a burning need to break the two-party system in the United States which clearly offers no alternative for the millions of Americans who suffered in the recession. Does the Taoiseach agree that it would have been much better if the anger and discontent that are clearly evident in the election result were reflected not in the election of a right-wing demagogue and populist such as Donald Trump but in someone like Bernie Sanders who, when he had been stopped and the Democrat primaries were rigged, should have gone independent and we might have had a different result today? I want to say something about with whom we should be building bridges in America. It is not Donald Trump who has not changed and will not change. We should be building bridges with those who are now potentially in danger of attack following his election to protect them from the abuse, racism and misogyny he has legitimised. We need to send a message of support to all of them, but we also need urgently to build a powerful anti-establishment alternative to cut across the hatred and division Donald Trump represents, a new anti-establishment alternative that will not be tied to the Democratic Party, a party that is pro-corporate and pro-war, but that will be a real party for the 99%.

I hope the people will organise in the US to stop Trump should he take action.

The Taoiseach

This is the democratic decision of the US people who voted at the ballot box in the election. They have chosen President-elect Trump to be their 45th President. There is no point in assessing what might have been. They have spoken very clearly. They have given him the popular vote by a clear majority and the collegiate vote by a clear majority, so there is no point in wondering what might be a different result.

As we are aware, democracy often throws up unexpected results, such as Brexit. All of the pundits, commentators, polls and indicators stated the result would not be as has turned out, and the assumption by the vast majority of people was that Hillary Clinton would be elected as President. This is not now the case. Democracy requires that responsibility brings realism. I am sure the President-elect, following through on his own words, will work with his new Administration to do the rebuilding, the forming of partnerships and the creating of opportunities he has spoken about not just in the US but throughout the world. As I have stated in the House previously, the decision today is of global consequence and the Government for one, together with Members of the House, will work with the Administration in the closest way we can.