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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 7 Feb 2017

Vol. 937 No. 3

Order of Business

Today's business shall be No. 16, Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015 [Seanad] - Report and Final Stages resumed; and No. 5, Courts (No. 2) Bill 2016 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. Private Members' Business shall be No. 26, Pensions (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2017 selected by Fianna Fáil.

Wednesday's business shall be No. 16, Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015 [Seanad] - Report and Final Stages, resumed if not previously concluded; No. 5, Courts (No. 2) Bill 2016 - Second Stage resumed; and No. 6, Bail (Amendment) Bill 2016 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. Private Members' Business shall be No. 27, Media Ownership Bill 2017 selected by the Social Democrats-Green Party Group.

Thursday's business shall be No. 17, statements on the recent US executive order on immigration; No. 10, motion re psychoactive drugs back from Committee, without debate; and No. 28, National Famine Commemoration Day Bill 2017 - Second Stage. Second Stage of No. 29, Consumer Insurance Contracts Bill 2017 will be debated in the evening slot.

I refer Members to the first revised report of the Business Committee dated 2 February 2017. In respect of today's business, it is proposed that Second Stage of the Pensions (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2017 shall be brought to a conclusion, if not previously concluded, at 10.00 p.m.

In respect of Wednesday's business, it is proposed that Second Stage of the Media Ownership Bill 2017 shall be brought to a conclusion, if not previously concluded, after two hours.

In respect of Thursday's business, there are five proposals. It is proposed that:

(1) The Dáil shall sit at 9.30 a.m. to take statements on the recent US executive order on immigration, which shall be brought to a conclusion after three hours. The speech of a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons for parties or groups, or a Member nominated in their stead shall be not more than 15 minutes each. A second round of 60 minutes in total for members of the Government, Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin is to be divided proportionally on a 40:40:20 basis, respectively, and all Members may share time. If the statements conclude before 12.30 p.m., the House shall suspend until 12.30 p.m. and Leaders' Questions shall commence at 12.30 p.m.;

(2) The Dáil shall sit later than 7.48 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of proceedings on the Consumer Insurance Contracts Bill 2017;

(3) The motion re psychoactive drugs, back from Committee, shall be taken without debate;

(4) The Order of the Dáil of 31 January 2017 that Second Stage of the National Famine Commemoration Day Bill 2017 be taken in Private Members' time, shall be discharged and Second Stage of the Bill shall be taken today in Government time and shall be brought to a conclusion after 130 minutes. The speech of a Government proposer and the main spokespersons for parties or groups, or a Member nominated in their stead, shall not exceed 15 minutes each. There shall be a ten-minute response from the Government proposer and all Members may share time; and

(5) Questions to the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation shall take place at 4.10 p.m. or on the conclusion of the proceedings on the National Famine Commemoration Day Bill 2017, whichever is the earlier.

There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with today's business agreed to?

It is not agreed. My party's whip has e-mailed the Business Committee to express our view that in light of the revelations in last night's "RTE Investigates" programme, we require an opportunity to have a fuller and more comprehensive debate about the capacity of the health service in the context of this year's health service plan to meet the needs that clearly arise. I refer in particular to the need to deliver operations and surgeries on a timely basis to young children with scoliosis and people with gynaecological conditions who have been waiting for far too long. It was revealed in last night's programme that this is happening across the board. It would be very useful for all Deputies to be able to participate in a fuller and more comprehensive debate. Many Deputies on all sides of the House have come across different priority cases in their own areas and in hospitals in their own constituencies and geographic regions. It is important for the Dáil to be flexible and adaptable. We should have the capacity to respond to issues of genuine and urgent public concern. In the aftermath of last night's programme, there is no doubt that people want precise answers that set out what will happen in 2017 to ensure the kinds of harrowing experiences that were revealed by patients during the programme are brought to an end. These issues need to be prioritised and dealt with adequately. We need to be reassured that the 2017 health service plan gives the Government and the HSE the capacity to do just that. The commitments we were given in the past in relation to some of the areas that were highlighted last night did not come to pass and were not realised.

Approval has been given to the selection of this matter for debate in the context of Topical Issues later this afternoon. If Members are in agreement, we can convene a meeting of the Business Committee this afternoon to consider Deputy Martin's request.

I think such a debate is necessary. I understand that this matter will be discussed during Topical Issues. In light of the depth of the crisis in the health service, I have absolutely no doubt that Members will wish to have an opportunity to contribute to that debate. It struck me during Leaders' Questions, as I listened to figures and statistics rolling so easily off the Taoiseach's tongue, that there seems to be a serious disconnect regarding what it means for real people in the real world to live on these lists.

We cannot get into a debate. We are talking about the Order of Business.

In the last Dáil, I raised the specific issue of children with scoliosis on the Order of Business on several occasions.

We are not going to have a debate.

Promises were made, but they meant nothing. I join Deputy Martin in insisting on a debate.

We need to get answers this time.

Is the House amenable to the suggestion that the Business Committee should convene this afternoon and arrange for time to be provided for this matter to be addressed?

I think that is in order, a Cheann Comhairle. This matter will be considered during two of this afternoon's Topical Issues slots so that should allow a number of questions that need to be answered to be answered.

That will be a very limited debate.

Of course I have no objection at all to the Business Committee determining that an appropriate debate on the health area should take place.

I do not think set-piece speeches will advance our knowledge of these matters. I put it to the Business Committee that there should be some sort of interaction in the course of the proposed debate so that we can pose questions and get responses to those questions.

Subject to that caveat, is the proposal for dealing with today's business agreed to? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with Wednesday's business agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Thursday's business agreed to?

I have a question about that. We requested a debate. It seems a bit pointless to have statements. There was a discussion about motions being taken. I do not know what happened to that but it would seem that Deputies from either Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil would not agree to a motion that was going to condemn the executive order.

That is outrageous.

It is not true. On a point of order-----

Let the Deputy finish her point.

The Business Committee, when it meets later, should discuss whether motions are going to taken on Thursday. Otherwise, we will engage in a theoretical debate, with nothing being sent out from this Parliament in terms of what has happened.

Deputy Coppinger has knowingly misled the House. Motions were-----

I just asked a question.

No. Deputy Coppinger basically accused Fianna Fáil and other parties of not agreeing to a motion. We circulated a motion to everyone, signed by Sinn Féin and other Members, which specifically condemns the executive order. Perhaps Deputy Coppinger should get up to speed with her e-mails and what is being circulated rather than making accusations that are not true.

To correct this, the Whips committee had agreed a motion. Deputy Darragh O'Brien is wrong.

That is not true.

Will Deputy Coppinger resume her seat, please? A number of motions were produced and circulated to the Business Committee. Members were asked to take the motions away to see if it might be possible to reach agreement. Manifestly, it was not possible to reach agreement, and that is why we are having statements rather than a motion. We will consider the matter this afternoon.

The exact reason for what is happening is that the AAA-PBP failed to give a commitment to the effect that it would not seek to amend any agreed motion.

No, we did not. I want to correct that because it is important. The Anti-Austerity Alliance-People Before Profit group agreed a motion. Then, for some reason, that motion was not agreed by you lot.

That sums it up. We are all just "you lot".

I do not mean to be smart but, genuinely, we have to be respectful. I know Deputy Coppinger was not there last week. What we agreed unanimously was that we would attempt, as a House, to come to an agreement on a choice of words. It was agreed that they would not be Deputy Coppinger's words, my words, Deputy Micheál Martin's words, Deputy Darragh O'Brien's words or the Labour Party's words but our words. We all agreed-----

Not my words. It was the Green Party's words. The Deputy should be accurate.

If she does not mind, the Deputy might listen for once. It would really be useful if she could hear what people say back to her. We all agreed that if we could not agree, we would have statements. Deputy Coppinger might have missed that part of the meeting but we all agreed that we would have a motion if it was unanimous. We could not agree on a unanimous statement and, therefore-----

The Business Committee, which runs the business of the House. The Deputy knows the Business Committee, the meetings of which she attends every Thursday.

Is the proposal for dealing with Thursday's business agreed to? Agreed. I call Deputy Micheál Martin on promised legislation.

An article in last weekend's edition of the Sunday Independent emphasises a number of pressures on the State's income and expenditure. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform is referenced on numerous occasions in the article, so it is getting to that time of the year again. What is interesting is that the report issued by his Department refers to public service pay pressures, the deep housing crisis and various other issues, such as the Brexit challenge, but it does not mention the pressure on people with disabilities. There are 600,000 people in Ireland with disabilities and they are extremely worried about the challenges that are arising in respect of public expenditure ceilings. To take respite care as an example, if one talks to the parents of children with autism, respite has ceased, certainly in my region, where there is no respite care whatsoever. The policies in place are reducing the services to people with disabilities. We need some assurance that the programme for Government commitment in regard to disabilities will be adhered to and prioritised in the context of Government spending.

The Minister brought a memo to Cabinet this morning. I ask him to address that matter for Deputy Micheál Martin.

The memo to which the article refers contains more than a reference to me; it is from me. The memo lays out the spending review that the Government will be implementing across this year.

This is the kind of spending review that is a normal part of how a government should do business, but it did not take place in the period leading up to the crisis or in the period during which the crisis occurred. The objective will be to identify how one third of Government expenditure is used against the objectives for which that expenditure is set aside. The objective is that over a three-year period, all Government expenditure will be reviewed.

I wish to ask the Taoiseach again about the Government's commitment to recognise Traveller ethnicity. Will the Taoiseach update us on the position? A recent report of the ESRI highlighted the many areas of inequality and disadvantage confronting the Traveller community. Crucially, the report supports ethnicity. Each time I have raised this with the Taoiseach, he has said work is being done on the issue. He committed to meeting the NGO groups involved and to bringing a report to the Dáil before the end of January. It is now February. When will the Taoiseach make his report to the Dáil? When will he formally recognise the ethnicity of the Traveller community?

Last night I had a useful engagement with the representatives of the Traveller groupings at the cabinet sub-committee. As Deputy Adams is aware, the Minister of State at the Department of Justice and Equality, Deputy Stanton, has done a good deal of work on the question. There are a number of matters that I want to follow up on arising from last night's meeting. I expect the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, to bring a memo to Government in the coming weeks.

In November of last year I tabled the Health and Social Care Professionals (Amendment) Bill 2016. The Bill was designed to tackle the issue of rogue crisis pregnancy agencies. The Bill passed Second Stage and I was assured that it would be a priority piece of work for the Government. At this stage, three months later, I have received no further detailed report of its progress. However, the Bills tracker, circulated by committee chairpersons last week, advised that consideration of this Bill on Committee Stage has been "deferred for the present". The Government gave a commitment when the Bill was passed that it would be enacted and prioritised. When might we see progress on this important legislation?

I was not aware of that. I will come back to Deputy Howlin.

In the programme for Government, the Taoiseach initiated the Citizens' Assembly. How long will it be allowed to run? When will this Dáil be allowed to legislate on this issue?

I am asking because of two events that took place over the weekend. First, it emerged that the Citizens' Assembly is only going to be shown fewer than 3% of the 13,500 submissions made. That is an absolutely farcical situation. People were exhorted to make their views known and to give their opinions to the assembly. The assembly members will be shown a random sample. I am unsure who selects the random sample or how it will be decided that a submission is fit to be shown to them. Second, Marie Stopes UK and the British Pregnancy Advisory Service have issued statements to the effect that they now have to turn Irish women away from their services and refer them elsewhere because of the pressure on their services and the numbers. They can no longer do the dirty work of this country. This is a serious issue for women who will not be able to access abortion in Britain.

The Citizens' Assembly will run until the end of the year, but the first matter it is dealing with is its reflections and recommendations on the assessment of the eighth amendment to the Constitution.

The end of the year. Is that correct?

As I understand it, all 13,000 submissions are online and available for anyone to view. The chairperson of the Citizens' Assembly has spoken clearly about the method of having people speak to the assembly without any favouritism on either side of the debate. The assembly will report to the House before the end of June. We will see what the recommendations or proposals or outcome of their deliberations will be at that stage.

A further 16 Deputies are offering, so Members can appreciate the difficulty on time. Deputy Healy-Rae is next.

Under the programme for Government many things have been promised to help rural Ireland. Little has happened yet. The other evening I was standing at O'Brien's shop in Glenflesk on the side of the N22. The number 40 Expressway bus passed on the way to Killarney and Tralee.

What has this got to do with the programme for Government?

It is about rural Ireland, transport and getting in and out of rural Ireland. We have no business here at all if we cannot affect those people.

While it is really pressing, I do not think-----

It is very important. The bus was packed full. I am calling on the Taoiseach and the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to get into meaningful talks with Bus Éireann and others to ensure the Expressway routes continue to operate and provide people in rural Kerry with transport back and forth from the county. I call on them to take action now to prevent the strike that is looming. I do not think it is below their station to get into talks with Bus Éireann to ensure the people of Kerry and rural Ireland have proper transport.

I call the Taoiseach. I thought he was going to be asked to drive the bus there for a while.

I hope the bus was driving safely on the correct side and within the speed limit-----

We want to keep it going.

-----and giving good comfort to the passengers. I hope the management and unions can come together before the mentioned strike date of 20 February-----

And the Minister.

-----and work out a system whereby the difficulties can be discussed and negotiated through the machinery of the State, the Workplace Relations Commission or the Labour Court.

The Government needs to be involved.

Maidir leis an scéim DEIS, tá athbhreithniú i gceist anois. Tá sé ag dul ar aghaidh le bliain nó b'fhéidir bliain go leith. Cá bhfuil an t-athbhreithniú sin? Chuir mé ceist roimh an Nollaig agus bhí sé geallta go mbeadh an t-athbhreithniú sin foilsithe an mhí seo caite. Ní sé foilsithe go fóill. Cá bhfuil sé?

An é sin an scéim DEIS do na scoileanna atá an Teachta ag caint faoi?

An t-athbhreithniú. Sin é go díreach.

Thug an Rialtas cead don Aire Oideachais agus Scileanna é sin a fhoilsiú agus cuirfidh sé cóip chuig an Teachta go luath.

As of this year, 136 countries recognise the state of Palestine, including eight EU states. In December 2014, both the Dáil and Seanad of the previous Oireachtas passed motions to recognise the state of Palestine formally alongside a two-state solution based on 1967 borders, with east Jerusalem as the capital. On page 144 of A Programme for a Partnership Government, it is stated that the Government will honour our commitment to recognise the state of Palestine as part of a lasting settlement of the conflict. Particularly in light of the fact that, over the past three weeks, over 6,000 illegal settlements have been approved by the Israeli authorities and that, furthermore, the Knesset voted yesterday to retrospectively make these illegal settlements legal in its eyes, when does the Taoiseach and his Government intend to move formally to recognise the state of Palestine?

As the Deputy mentioned, the programme for Government does say that the Government is committed to recognising the state of Palestine as part of a lasting settlement of the conflict. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade has kept under continuous review whether the immediate recognition by Ireland of the state of Palestine prior to its real achievement on the ground could be a helpful step or not-----

-----towards the goal of resolving the conflict. The Minister has made it clear that he will recommend early recognition by Ireland if it would be helpful. I do not agree-----

Is the Government going to stand by and do nothing?

We passed a joint motion on it.

I do not agree with the decision of the Israeli Government to validate retrospectively-----

The Dáil has spoken on this issue.

The Dáil has spoken.

-----a significant number of dwellings.

The Government needs to follow up.

The Government is either in or out. Are we committed to it or not?

Let me remind the Deputy again that the programme for Government says the Government is committed to recognising the state of Palestine as part of a lasting settlement-----

If the Government will not do it, the Opposition will. We have a cross-party motion here and we will move it if the Government will not do it.

-----of the conflict. As part of that, would the recognition of Palestine now help towards resolving this conflict-----

-----within the two-state solution, which we all support?

Six thousand illegal settlements. If we do not do it there will be nothing left to recognise.

Ciúnas. I call Deputy Eoin Ó Broin.

In the programme for Government, there is a commitment to strengthen the social inclusion and community activation programme, SICAP, as well as to reactivate increased funding to rapid area projects throughout local authorities. My constituency, like many others, has seen projects funded through these streams - Traveller projects, youth projects, addiction projects and women's projects - have their funding cut in recent years by as much as 50%. Can the Taoiseach outline what measures will be undertaken by the Government to strengthen SICAP? Will the Government commit to a review of the flawed tendering process that community groups go through when applying for this funding?

I will get back to Deputy Ó Broin on that issue. The entire review of the structure is now commencing by the Ministers for Finance and for Public Expenditure and Reform.

My question to the Taoiseach relates to page 86 of the programme for Government with regard to the 3,137 primary schools in the State. There is a very clear commitment to reduce the pupil-teacher ratio in junior and senior infant classes. We all know that the research shows a huge and very positive impact on children in their further education, staying in education and in their job prospects when the pupil-teacher ratio is reduced. There is another impact in the retention numbers for teachers. I was in two primary schools in the Curragh last week where excellent teachers are working in very difficult conditions, which I have already raised with the Minister for Defence. We have teaching principals, one of whom has three classes - fourth, fifth and sixth. They are both losing teachers this year. If the pupil-teacher ratio were reduced, this would have a positive impact and these schools could retain teachers.

I will ask the Minister for Education and Skills to respond to the Deputy on that.

I thank the Deputy for her question. The pupil-teacher ratio was reduced from September 2016 so it has been reduced for this current year. In this year's budget we addressed other issues, namely, the expansion of the new resource teaching allocation for children with special educational needs. The question was also asked by Deputy Connolly around disadvantaged schools. Each year we look at the moneys available and allocate them to education priorities. I assure Deputy O'Loughlin that class size, disadvantage, special educational needs, guidance counselling and the issues we have discussed many times in committee remain high priorities.

I ask the Taoiseach for an update on the Companies Accounting Bill 2016. This is very urgent legislation and, considering the backdrop of Brexit, there are a substantial number of businesses looking to avail of the financial reporting standard, FRS 105, which is a small provision for smaller entities. It is very urgent and needs to go through the House.

The Bill is awaiting Report Stage in this House. It is an important Bill and obviously it is a case of finding the time for it.

A number of weeks ago I asked the Taoiseach about the report by Mr. Justice O'Neill regarding the protected disclosures made by members of An Garda Síochána to the Minister for Justice and Equality. At the time the Taoiseach indicated there was ongoing dialogue between the Minister for Justice and Equality, her Department and the Attorney General. Media reports indicate that it may have been discussed at Cabinet today. Will the Taoiseach indicate when the report and its recommendations will be published, and when and how he will act on those recommendations?

I can confirm for Deputy Curran that the matter was discussed at Cabinet today. The Cabinet gave approval to the Minister for Justice and Equality to initiate a commission of investigation into the outcome of the information sent in by the personnel involved. The report will be published in redacted form because it has to be published in redacted form. The Minister is making a statement about that now. A judge has been appointed to conduct the investigation.

My question relates to promised legislation and a sea fisheries (amendment) Bill. A necessity for this Bill has arisen due to a recent High Court decision concerning the agreement reached between Seán Lemass and Captain O'Neill in 1966, commonly known as the Voisinage agreement. To give this agreement a legal basis, and without being parochial about it, it does affect a number of small vessels in my constituency, it is important that it be enacted as quickly as possible. It is my understanding that there would be approval across the floor of the House.

This matter was cleared by Cabinet a couple of weeks ago. I am not sure what the reason is for the delay but I will have the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine check it for the Deputy. It did come before Government and it was cleared. I will find out what is the delay in publishing the Bill.

On page 102 of A Programme for a Partnership Government there is a commitment to delivering our national defence and security policy and to implementing the Schengen Information System II - the sharing IT system - to improve interoperability internationally to enhance the policing of the entry points of the State, in particular to support the Garda in detecting and preventing crime, especially by dangerous criminals entering this country.

Against the background of Brexit, will the Taoiseach give an assurance that there will be a timescale for the implementation of this project and a definite timeline in that regard?

That type of work is going on all the time between the Defence Forces and the Garda in terms of safeguarding the security of our State and the observation of particular persons. I will send the Deputy an updated account of where we are in this regard.

I have raised the issue of mental health services provision on several occasions. Given that A Vision for Change has come to an end, what is the proposed next step? Will an alternative programme be put in place? A report issued today by the National Suicide Research Foundation shows that in the seven years from 2007 to 2015, the number of men reporting self-harming behaviour in County Leitrim increased by 133%, with an increase of 117% for women. The figures are similar in many areas across the country. The child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, in particular, have been starved of resources, despite the many young teenagers presenting in urgent need of assistance. The "RTE Investigates" programme last night dealt specifically with waiting lists but, at the same time, mental health services throughout the State are in disarray. What will be done to address this problem?

The Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy McEntee, has spoken about these issues recently. In line with the programme for Government, the Department of Health recently commenced a review of A Vision for Change, beginning with an evidence-based expert review that will focus on the progress made on implementing the programme and will advise on the development of future mental health policy. The Government is committed to increasing the mental health budget annually, which includes a substantial additional allocation of €115 million and the provision of more than 1,100 posts between 2012 to 2016. Budget 2017 included provision for additional moneys for mental health which will see Health Service Executive funding for this key care programme increasing from approximately €826 million in 2016 to €851 million this year, or €853 million when adjusted for funding movement across the HSE.

That concludes questions on promised legislation. I apologise to the eight Deputies whose questions were not reached.

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