Vol. 944 No. 3
1. Deputy Lisa Chambers asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the short, medium and long-term Defence Forces strategic human resource measures being considered to address the manning crisis in order that the Defence Forces may fulfil the critical State outputs that are designed and mandated by the Government. [15650/17]
I extend my sympathy to the families of the four crew members who went down in R116 off the coast of Mayo in my constituency. I commend most strongly the efforts and work of the Defence Forces in the search and rescue operation. I commend, in particular, the Naval Service. Those concerned have done the organisation extremely proud.
My question is to ask the Minister of State to outline the short, medium and long-term Defence Forces strategic human resource measures being considered to address the manning crisis in order that the Defence Forces may fulfil the critical State outputs that are designed and mandated by the Government.
The White Paper on Defence sets the defence policy agenda for the next ten years. It also considers the defence capabilities required so the Defence Forces can successfully deliver on the roles assigned by the Government. In this context, the White Paper on Defence also highlights a number of medium and long-term strategies in the area of manpower planning. The White Paper addresses the need to review and develop rolling medium-term planning requirements so as to deliver an effective and efficient workforce mix in terms of age profile, skills, competencies and experience, and current policies to support this will be further developed and implemented. To that end, a number of White Paper projects are currently under way and are being jointly developed by military and civil personnel.
The Government is committed to maintaining the establishment of the Permanent Defence Force at 9,500 personnel, comprising 7,520 Army personnel, 886 Air Corps personnel and 1,094 Naval Service personnel, as stated in the 2015 White Paper on Defence. On an ongoing basis, the manpower requirement of the Defence Forces is monitored in accordance with the operational requirements of each of the three services. As there is significant turnover of personnel in the Permanent Defence Force, targeted recruitment has been, and is currently, taking place to maintain the agreed strength levels. As with other areas of the public service, challenges have arisen in regard to the recruitment and retention of personnel in particular areas of expertise.
I am advised by the military authorities that a total of 590 general service recruits were enlisted into the Permanent Defence Force in 2016, of whom 501 were enlisted in the Army and 89 were enlisted in the Naval Service. In addition, 100 cadetships were awarded following the 2016 cadetship competitions in the Naval Service, Army and Air Corps.
I am advised by the military authorities that their planned target is to induct approximately 850 to 900, or just 900, new entrants to the Defence Forces across all services and competition streams in 2017. I am further advised that, to date in 2017, a total of 106 general service recruits have been enlisted.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
A new general service recruitment campaign was launched on 23 February 2017 and the 2017 cadetship competition was launched last week. Direct-entry competitions are also held as required, from which specialist appointments are filled. An Air Corps apprentice class was also inducted in March 2017.
Promotions are ongoing within officer ranks in order to fill rank vacancies. A new NCO promotions competition to fill vacancies to the ranks of sergeant and above has been launched. From this, promotions will commence in quarter 3 of 2017.
The purpose of the Defence Forces climate survey, published in 2016, was to inform consideration of the ongoing human resource and strategic needs of the Defence Forces. The survey findings point to challenges for the Defence Forces, particularly in the areas of leadership, communication, organisational culture, the working environment and active management of personnel expectations. However, many positives also emanated from the survey, especially in relation to the commitment of personnel to the values and mission of the organisation, high levels of work satisfaction, pride in the organisation and positive views on culture and work support. The responses to the issues raised in the climate survey resulted in the formulation of an action plan, which is being led by the Chief of Staff.
My Government colleagues and I recognise the important role the Reserve Defence Force has played in contributing to Ireland’s defence capability and we recognise the voluntary service which has been the hallmark of the Reserve. The Government appreciates the service of the members of the Reserve and the White Paper on Defence is clear that there is a continued requirement to retain and develop the Reserve. Recruitment to both the Permanent Defence Force and Reserve Defence Force remains a priority in 2017.
Despite the challenges facing the organisation, I believe we now have the structures in place to continue to deliver a more effective, energetic and sustainable organisation. With the support of the Chief of Staff, I am confident that we shall retain the capacity of the Defence Forces to operate effectively across all roles and to undertake the tasks assigned by Government, both at home and overseas.
The ongoing difficulty in the retention of skilled Defence Forces personnel has been well documented. Despite an establishment figure of 9,500, figures released to me by the Minister of State's Department last week show fewer than 9,100 in the Permanent Defence Force currently. We have a budget for 9,500. We never seem to get there and I do not envisage us getting there any time soon.
The Minister of State may have read last week a newspaper article by retired Brigadier General Ger Aherne, who commanded the Fourth Western Brigade of the Defence Forces. It is a very trenchant critique and raises many salient points. Let me quote one of them for the Minister of State:
You cannot induct qualified military skill sets off the street. The unique nature of military service requires non-standard terms of service, from fitness and medical benchmarks to remuneration and supporting conditions of service. Failure to factor in these unique demands, and the timelines required to develop these competencies, inevitably results in manning gaps. The Defence Forces will thus not have the requisite capacity to fulfil the designed range of capabilities required by the State.
That is a strong criticism. When does the Minister of State think we will reach the 9,500 personnel mark, which I consider to be too low a ceiling in any event?
I have been assured by the Chief of Staff that the Defence Forces have all the capabilities to comply with and carry out all roles the Government's wishes of them. During the worst recession to hit this country, the Defence Forces and the Government decided there would be continuous recruitment. It was the only State body to have continuous recruitment from 2011 to 2013, inclusive, when money was extremely difficult to come by. I have set a target of taking in 900 recruits this year. I hope to get Defence Forces strength back up to 9,500 or close to it. That is why I have set a target of bringing in almost 900 recruits this year. It is easy to say to bring in 1,500 or 2,000 recruits. However, one has to look at the training capacity available and the ability to carry out day-to-day requirements and fulfil overseas commitments.
Despite the recovery in public finances and a recruitment campaign, numbers are down again in any event. The Minister of State’s focus is far too much on the recruitment side. While it is essential, the retention of specialists and their hard-earned skills is paramount. There are 28 recruits in training with the Air Corps, with eight due to graduate in quarter 4 of 2017. The Minister considers this as an adequate response to the Air Corps staffing shortage. None of these eight trainees will be able to act as co-pilots of a helicopter or a fixed-wing CASA until the summer of 2019 at the earliest. The training cost for a pilot is €1.5 million. It takes six years to train a bomb disposal officer. Specialist Naval Service deck officers require years of intensive training. Specialist Army Ranger Wing officers are front-line responders to terrorist threats. They similarly require long years of training at home and abroad, with lengthy operational experience needed.
The Minister of State has let this matter reach crisis point and the recruitment campaigns for this year and the next two years will not bridge the gap. He needs to put together a serious plan for retention of personnel because the cost to the State of losing these people is far more than the cost of training. What is the Minister of State’s plan to retain personnel? What will he do now and what will he do next year to retain highly-qualified people we have in the Defence Forces? Taking on new people will not bridge the gap that exists.
I do not accept the Deputy's assertions. In light of the results of the climate survey that were published at the end of 2016, I have asked the military authorities to come up with plans for the specific area of retention. The Deputy referred to the Air Corps. We have eights cadets in training who were inducted in 2016. There were also classes in 2010 to 2015, inclusive. There is rolling recruitment going on.
There are 211 vacancies. We are not taking in enough.
I would be the first to accept that. However, this is also about training capacity. There is no use bringing in young cadets if we cannot give them the specific training they need. A significant amount of money is invested in these young people. I hope we will have a bigger cadet class in the Air Corps in 2017.
I thank the Minister of State.
I understand the frustrations of the people involved. It is a priority for me to get the Air Corps back to fully operational capacity. That is also my target in respect of cadet and air traffic control training.
The Minister of State should conclude.
I want to get this clear, a Cheann Comhairle. There is a rolling of cadets every year. Once the class starts, another one is finishing at the end. They will be ready to be pilots and co-pilots.
I know that. However, I am talking about retention. We are losing more personnel than we are taking in.
Thank you. The Minister of State has made his point.
There is this view that we do not have people finishing off.
The next question is from Deputy Ó Snodaigh.
2. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if the Air Corps was requested to provide top cover for Coast Guard helicopter Rescue 116 during its ill-fated mission off the County Mayo coast; if its inability to assist in the search-and-recovery mission was directly attributable to cuts which have reduced the number of air traffic controllers and other experienced personnel to the point that the Air Corps can no longer operate on a 24-hour basis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15539/17]
I want to express my sincere sympathies to the family and friends of the crew the Irish Coast Guard helicopter, R116, Dara Fitzpatrick, Mark Duffy, Ciarán Smith and Paul Ormsby. Guím suaimhneas síoraí orthu.
Was the Air Corps requested to provide top cover for Coast Guard helicopter Rescue 116 during its ill-fated rescue mission off the County Mayo coast which led to the deaths of the four brave responders? Was the Air Corps inability to assist in the search-and-recovery mission directly attributable to cuts which have led to the lack of experienced personnel in the Air Corps?
I want to express my deepest condolences and sympathy to the families of the crew involved in the loss of Rescue 116, which has been a shock to us all. I would also like to recognise the efforts of everyone involved in the recovery operation.
On the night of the tragic incident, the Coast Guard requested the assistance of the Air Corps to provide top cover. It was not possible to undertake this task because the CASA aircraft was unavailable. On this occasion, it was because of a reduced availability of experienced personnel, both air crew and air traffic control. The Air Corps is not providing fixed-wing aircraft for routine operations on an ongoing basis outside normal hours. However, in exceptional circumstances outside of normal hours, the Air Corps can recall personnel, as happened when Rescue 116 went missing.
The Air Corps continues to provide a broad range of services on a daily basis for a diverse range of tasks such as Army and Naval Service support, the emergency aero-medical service, maritime patrols and fishery protection, the ministerial air transport service, inter-hospital transfers and aid to the civil power duties including the Garda air support unit and security escorts.
The reduction in experienced personnel in the Air Corps has not arisen due to cuts in personnel numbers. As with other areas of the public service, challenges have arisen with the recruitment and retention of personnel in particular areas of expertise. The Air Corps has experienced retirements of highly-experienced personnel and these retirements are outstripping the recruitment and training of replacement personnel. The loss of experienced personnel is driven by a range of factors, including the availability of attractive job opportunities in the private and commercial semi-State sectors. This loss of experienced personnel has, in turn, impacted on the availability of aircraft.
The Coast Guard, which operates under the aegis of the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, has overall responsibility for the provision of search-and-rescue services within the Irish search and rescue region. The Coast Guard search and rescue services can request the support of the Air Corps on an as-available basis under a service level agreement between the Department of Defence and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, the most recent of which has been in place since 2013. Availability is dependent upon several factors, including the availability of suitable aircraft, the availability of flying crews and the suitability of weather conditions.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
All agencies to which the Air Corps provides supports, on an as-available basis, in accordance with their service level agreements, were notified of reduced availability last summer. However, it is normal practice for agencies to check for Air Corps availability as relevant missions arise. I assure the House that there is significant work under way in the defence organisation, both civil and military, aimed at improving the capacity of the Air Corps. This includes work on a range of actions to improve pilot retention.
Recruitment of new personnel is taking place and pilot cadets are in training. However, it will take time for these cadets, when qualified, to develop their skills and expertise. As such, a return to previous levels of capability in the Air Corps will be a gradual process as pilots within the system progress to become aircraft commanders and newly qualified cadets become pilots.
Actions are also under way to return a full level of air traffic control services to the Air Corps. Air traffic control training is taking place and options to ensure the longer-term sustainability of air traffic control services in Baldonnel are being identified. These measures will facilitate a gradual extension of operational hours for air traffic control services in Baldonnel over the year, beginning this May, as newly-qualified personnel develop their experience and with an anticipated return to full 24-7 service in early 2018.
The tragic loss of R116 has caused shockwaves across the emergency services. Regrettably, the sense of grief has been compounded by what has emerged since, namely, that the Air Corps was unable to assign a fixed-wing patrol aircraft to provide the top cover that would normally happen which meant that R116 was scrambled. The Minister of State confirmed recently, and just repeated again, that the Air Corps, despite being best equipped to provide such top cover with its CASA fixed-wing maritime patrol aircraft, is only available to provide this essential service on a part-time basis. Punitive cutbacks imposed on the Defence Forces and a lack of planning are the reasons the Air Corps is in such a state.
In particular, I refer to the non-replacement of personnel and the lack of recruits for many years. The specialist nature of air crew and air traffic control means that it is only in the most exceptional circumstances that the Air Corps can provide personnel outside normal hours, as happened when Rescue 116 went down, and it is also why personnel cannot be made available for the transfer of patients such as children who need organ transplants outside the normal hours of 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., as the Minister of State confirmed to me only last month.
The fate of Rescue 116 must serve as a wake up call. In light of this horrendous and, I believe, avoidable, tragedy, when can we expect the loss of experienced personnel in the Air Corps to be replaced in order that the 24-hour top cover can be reinstated? Can the Minister of State provide an assurance that out of the 28 Air Corps cadets currently in training an adequate number will be assigned as tech and fire crews? When will they be in place to provide those critical roles? When will he fill the other 47 positions that are vacant? That does not, however, take account of those retiring this year, which is a point the Minister of State made earlier.
First, I wish to state that this facility is only based on a service level agreement. As I stated in my reply, the Air Corps will be able to provide such an as-available service both to the Department of Health or the HSE for medical transfers and to the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. That facility is based on a service level agreement and that is stated clearly in that agreement.
To address the Deputy's other question, the Air Corps continues to provide a broad range of services on a daily basis for a diverse range of tasks such as Army and Naval Service support. The level of availability of Air Corps aircraft for such tasks has reduced. This reduction is not due to the cuts in personnel but largely because the Air Corps has experienced retirements of highly experienced personnel. These retirements are outstripping the recruitment and training of replacement personnel. The loss of experienced personnel is driven by a range of factors - as I have stated here on numerous occasions - including the availability of attractive job opportunities in private and commercial semi-State sectors.
I assure the Deputy that while there has been a loss of experienced personnel, significant work is under way in the Defence organisation, both civil and military, aimed at improving the capacity of the Air Corps, which includes pilot training. A cadet recruitment campaign is under way, four personnel will complete air traffic training between May and September and the Air Corps is currently inducting a further air traffic control course, which started on Monday last.
We are over time on all these questions. I call Deputy Ó Snodaigh.
There are still at least 47 vacancies in the Air Corps. When will personnel be in place for the Air Corps to be in a position to provide 24-hour top cover whenever they receive a request for such assistance? When does the Minister of State expect the 12 trainee controllers to be in place to provide the 24-hour duties?
Can he confirm that before qualifying a controller is only allowed to work on a tower while accompanied until he or she has obtained the rank of sergeant or higher, thus causing a further delay in restoring that full cover? What are the qualifications needed for Air Corps personnel to qualify as an approach radar sergeant? Is it the current policy to allow only commissioned officers to be trained as radar guided intercept controllers and has this contributed to CATSO losing its capacity to control air traffic as a result of lapsed licences, something which is not just related to a service level agreement?
The Deputy has asked a number of technical questions and I will respond to him in writing with specific answers to some of those questions. I assure him that I am in the process of addressing issues, including the shortage of air traffic controllers and, as I stated, some personnel have almost completed their training. Another group of personnel started their air traffic control training on Monday last. Some pilots are coming through and I hope to increase the pilot cadetship in 2017.
I cannot address these issues overnight. These are a number of issues I inherited when I was appointed to this position. I am in the process of addressing them and I would be the first to put my hand up and say there is a shortage of personnel. That shortage is due to the fact that there are attractive positions outside the Air Corps. A number of things are happening in the background to address other issues regarding the retention of specific people who have a specific set of skills. This is not only an issue within the Air Corps, it is also an issue in the HSE and the Minister, Deputy Harris, would tell me that he is losing experienced personnel because there are more attractive packages outside of the organisations here. I am very much in the process of addressing that issue. I will respond in writing to the technical issues the Deputy raised.
We are moving on to Question No. 4 to facilitate Deputy Barry.
4. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his views on the Government's response to the application being taken to the European Committee of Social Rights by EUROMIL on behalf of PDFORRA seeking enhanced employee and representative rights for the Defence Forces akin to those won by the Garda organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15538/17]
I thank Deputy Lisa Chambers for allowing me to leapfrog, taking Question No. 4 before her Question No. 3.
An application is being taken to the European Committee of Social Rights by EUROMIL on behalf of PDFORRA seeking enhanced employee and representative rights for the Defence Forces akin to those won by the Garda organisations. Will the Minister of State indicate his views and make a statement on the matter?
In a non-binding ruling, the European Committee of Social Rights, ECSR, found in 2014 that current arrangements for industrial relations in An Garda Síochána are not in compliance with aspects of the European Social Charter. This was on the grounds of a prohibition on An Garda Síochána joining national employee organisations and on representative associations levels of access to national pay agreement discussions. Also, as part of this non-binding judgment, I am advised that the committee also found against the prohibition of the right of members of An Garda Síochána to strike.
Before I proceed further, the Deputy will appreciate that the implications of these non-binding findings are a matter for the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality in the first instance.
In the light of these ECSR findings, a complaint to the Council of Europe about the lack of union rights for military representative associations in Ireland was made by EUROMIL, a European umbrella body for military associations, on behalf of PDFORRA. PDFORRA is similarly claiming most of the same violations of the European Social Charter as the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, did, including denial of the right to join the ICTU, alleged restricted access to pay talks, and the prohibition on the right to strike.
I stress that this is a particularly difficult issue and raises complex questions for Ireland from a legal, operational and management perspective. In this context it is critically important that the Defence Forces are fully operational at all times, and it must be emphasised that the taking of any form of industrial action is irreconcilable with military service.
Detailed final submissions were lodged to the European Committee of Social Rights on 26 February 2016 setting out Ireland's position in the matter and we are now awaiting the outcome of the case. I am not in a position to comment any further pending the outcome of this case.
Does the Minister appreciate that a head of steam is building up in the ranks of the armed forces and their families over a litany of grievances that I have raised with him both in oral and written questions during the past few months? It is not just a question of grievances, of which there are many, on the issues of pay, pension rights, the theft by this State of annual leave entitlement and health and safety issues, the likes of which we saw in the Air Corps paint shop. It also is about the severe curbs that are being placed on members of the armed forces and their organisation, PDFORRA, in representing its members in the manner of a real trade union. The Garda Representative Association, GRA, and the AGSI were successful in taking a case to the European Committee of Social Rights in the teeth of opposition from the Minister of State's colleagues in the Department of Justice and Equality. That his Department is contesting the case being taken by EUROMIL forcing the armed forces to go through all the same hoops as the Garda organisations did, stringing the process out by years, is shameful. It will not be accepted. Does the Minister accept that a head of steam is building up on these issues and that the current position is untenable?
No. I do not accept the Deputy's assertions. We have a mechanism of the conciliation and arbitration process within the Department and the Defence Forces that is open to both the representative organisations, PDFORRA and RACO, that represent members of the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps. If they are unhappy with that, they can go to the ombudsman for adjudication.
A process is therefore in place within the Defence Forces. I am not going to say that everything in the garden is rosy or that neither representative organisation brings issues to my attention. Of course they do. However, this is a matter of ironing out the issues both organisations have, and I have met the organisations on numerous occasions. If there are any major issues concerning the members of the organisation, both RACO and PDFORRA can bring them to the attention of the Department of Defence and senior management of the Defence Forces. I am satisfied that the process we have is able to deal with this.
I agree with the Minister of State on one point: things in the garden are not rosy - not by a long shot. Before Christmas, I tabled a parliamentary question which took his Department until the middle of February to answer. It concerned the number of days' leave entitlement surrendered by members of the armed forces because those on tours of duty could not carry over untaken leave. A massive 37,610 days' leave was untaken, which by the calculations of PDFORRA is the equivalent of €2.9 million in pay being taken from these workers by the Minister of State's Department. I await his Department to come back to me with figures for other years. This is just one example of the shoddy manner in which our armed forces are being treated by his Department. I have met representatives of the new spouses' and partners' campaign. I assure the Minister of State that they mean business and I think he will be hearing from them more in the weeks and months ahead.
I have no problem hearing the issues of any representative organisation. I have met the management of both PDFORRA and RACO to hear their concerns and views and any issues they have within the Defence Forces. I put my hands up and said we will not be able to sort out every issue affecting the representative organisations but we can go some way in trying to address the issues they might bring to my attention.
The case in respect of which the Deputy tabled his parliamentary question is now up for hearing so I will not comment further on it. The final submissions setting out Ireland's position on the matter were lodged with the European Committee of Social Rights on 26 February 2016, so we await the outcome of the case.
3. Deputy Lisa Chambers asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the discussions he has undertaken and the representations he has made with regard to reviewing the industrial relations process for Defence Forces representative associations. [15651/17]
What discussions has the Minister of State undertaken and what representations has he made with regard to reviewing the industrial relations process for Defence Forces representative associations, and will he make a statement on the matter?
Under the terms of the Defence (Amendment) Act 1990, the Defence Forces representative associations are prohibited from being associated with or affiliated to any trade unions or any other body. Accordingly, the representative associations cannot be affiliated to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, at present. The basis for this prohibition is that it would be inappropriate to apply the provisions of the Industrial Relations Act 1990 to members of the Defence Forces. The taking of any form of industrial action is irreconcilable with military service. This is a long-standing policy position taken by successive Governments since the foundation of the State. The Defence Forces may be called on to contribute to maintaining vital services in times of industrial action. The potential for serious difficulties and conflicts could arise in these circumstances if the Defence Forces representative associations were associated with or affiliated to ICTU, given ICTU rules in respect of such matters.
As the Deputy is aware, the conciliation and arbitration scheme for members of the Permanent Defence Force, PDF, provides a formal mechanism for the PDF representative associations, RACO and PDFORRA, to engage with the official side. The purpose of the scheme is to provide a means for the determination of claims and proposals from the associations relating to remuneration and conditions of service. It is open to the representative associations to submit claims to the official side regarding matters falling within the conciliation and arbitration scheme. Generally, claims relate to pay and conditions, award of allowances, etc. When submitted, these claims are generally the subject of negotiations, and where agreement is not reached, it is open to both sides to seek the assistance of an adjudicator to settle the matter. In addition, a framework exists which facilitates the associations engaging with the official side in talks parallel to those taking place between ICTU and the official side at the national level.
I have received representations from PDFORRA seeking to have access to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court made available to it in the event of any future legislative changes being made to provide An Garda Síochána with access to same. I am advised that the proposals regarding An Garda Síochána being granted such access will require detailed legislative changes, and the Department of Justice and Equality has established a working group to examine in detail what future legislation is required.
I remain satisfied with the present arrangements in place for the Defence Forces. However, in the light of PDFORRA representations, the matter is being kept under review, including in the context of any future arrangements to be made for An Garda Síochána.
While the Minister of State might remain satisfied with the current arrangement in place, I assure him that the Defence Forces are not. The Minister of State will be aware that until 2016, both the Garda and Defence Forces representative associations have been precluded from trade union status and affiliation to ICTU. Garda and the Defence Forces representative associations were granted access to the national pay talks in what is referred to as a parallel process, with the Departments of Justice and Equality and Defence operating sectoral conciliation and arbitration schemes. It is fair to say that recent changes in this context have meaningfully altered the dynamic structures of the State industrial relations architecture, with access for Garda associations to the Workplace Relations Commission now being sanctioned by Government. However, the Defence Forces associations have not been considered in this context. Queries posed to the Department of Defence on this subject failed to elicit any response to relevant questions as to why Government found it necessary to restructure established industrial relations structures for the Garda and not the Defence Forces.
I put it to Deputy Kehoe that as Minister of State with responsibility for defence, it is his job to advocate for the Defence Forces at the Cabinet table, and I put it to him that he has failed to do so. That he thinks he can maintain the status quo for the Defence Forces while allowing the Garda a separate structure within which to operate is totally ridiculous. It will not be sustainable, and the Defence Forces will not accept it. What is the Minister of State doing to address this imbalance and the Defence Forces' lack of access to the industrial relations mechanisms of the State to which they are entitled?
A process is in place within the Department of Defence in this regard. I have met both representative organisations on numerous occasions and have received representations from PDFORRA seeking to have access to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court made available to it. I understand the reasons it would want such services available to it.
The Deputy mentioned An Garda Síochána. Legislative changes are required for the Garda to have access to both the Labour Court and the Workplace Relations Commission. A working group has been set up in this regard. To state that I have been silent at the Cabinet table is absolutely untrue. I have asked that a senior member of my Department be given a seat on that working group when it is set up and begins its talks and negotiations. I have cleared this at the Cabinet table. I sought this because the representative organisations had been in contact with me.
I am concerned that the Minister of State thinks the process currently in place is adequate. Let us talk about the conciliation and arbitration process in place and why I say it is dysfunctional. Government recently agreed that the WRC Garda settlement will be on the terms of the Lansdowne Road agreement, and the Department allowed for negotiations to take place between the officers of the public services committee, PSC, of ICTU and officials of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, DPER. This began in December 2016, concluded in January 2017 and reached Cabinet approval on 17 January. Following this, officials from DPER met RACO on 17 January, the same day Cabinet approved it, to inform RACO of the outcome of the negotiations with ICTU regarding the talks on the Garda anomaly. At this point, the Government had already agreed its position. This effectively meant that no consultation took place with RACO. Consultation only took place with the PSC of ICTU. This means that the parallel process designed for consultation and negotiation with the representative associations is dysfunctional because no consultation happened.
The decision of the Government, which was, communicated to RACO on 17 January, contradicted the statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, that under the first phase parties to the Lansdowne Road agreement were invited to discussions under section 6 of the agreement. Does the Minister of State not accept that the fact there had been no consultation of any description with RACO prior to that media release of a new agreement on the Lansdowne Road agreement contradicts every aspect of the Government's commitment? The agreement between the public service committee of ICTU and Government deliberately excluded RACO. Is that not another clear example supporting the RACO claim that the parallel process is dysfunctional, placing members of the Defence Forces at a significant disadvantage relative to those who enjoy trade union membership? It is the Minister of State's job to fix this imbalance.
I am happy that the conciliation and arbitration process in place for the representative organisations is suitable and is working. There might be several issues that the Department and my office might not agree on with the representative organisations but the conciliation and arbitration process is open to them to deal with whatever issues they have.
I welcome that PDFORRA signed up as a full member of the Lansdowne Road agreement last week, which brings benefits to the members of the Permanent Defence Force. I have a person on the working group within the Department of Justice and Equality and am content that person will represent the views of RACO and PDFORRA.
5. Deputy Mick Wallace asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if his attention has been drawn to the problems in the present transfer system between the Naval Service and the Army and the impact that this is having on morale and on the retention of Defence Forces personnel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15694/17]
This question relates to a young lad from Kilkenny who happens to play for Wexford Youths. I was contacted by a member of his family. Deputy Aylward and I have mentioned this to the Minister of State a few times outside the Chamber. I realise there is a shortage of personnel in the navy and that it is as eager as hell to hold on to them, but if it really wants to keep them, it will have to improve pay and conditions. I believe some work is being done in that area. Until that happens, morale and numbers will suffer.
The transfer of a member of the Permanent Defence Forces from one service or unit to another is entirely a matter for the military authorities in the light of operational requirements. In general terms, applications for transfers are considered by the military authorities having regard to factors such as the manpower level of the unit in which the applicant is serving, the number of transfer applications already on hand, the seniority of the applicant within the unit and the existence of a suitable vacancy in the unit to which the applicant wishes to transfer. Every effort is made to facilitate transfer applications where circumstances permit.
Personnel from the Naval Service are no different from those in any other service or formation within the Defence Forces in that they may apply for transfers within the organisation. The Defence Forces process for internal transfers, including those from the Naval Service to the Army, involves each application being assessed individually based on its merits and on the exigencies of the service. The process includes the opportunity for the applicant to make representation to the relevant general officer commanding or flag officer commanding in the Naval Service. The application process is formalised in Defence Forces regulations. I have been advised by the military authorities that no issues have been encountered with this process.
This lad has applied three times and is getting frustrated. He is not in a great place. He was reared by his grandparents. His grandfather who served for 23 years as a company quartermaster sergeant died two years ago and, sadly, the service pension died with him. The lad has been looking after his grandmother since then. It is not financially viable for him to go from Kilkenny to Cork because his grandmother needs his help.
His AF236 form, which is completed and includes his circumstances, is in the personnel management system. I have been told that up to last Monday it had been in a tray for seven weeks. I do not understand this. I know the form goes from Cobh to Kilkenny and back to Cork, and if there is a dispute it goes to Newbridge, but I understood there were time limits on how long any process could take.
I am not aware of a specific time limit for how long an application form spends in the naval base in Haulbowline or in Kilkenny but I would encourage the lad to go to the personnel section if his personal circumstances are on his application for transfer.
I cannot inquire into specific cases but I made a general inquiry. There has to be a suitable vacancy in Kilkenny and there cannot be a shortage of personnel in the place the person wants to leave.
If there is no time limit there should be one. It is ridiculous not to have a measure on these matters. The individual in question wants to go to Kilkenny and the battalion commander in Kilkenny says there is a place there for him. This guy is a qualified communications operator. Money has been invested in him by the State and he is an asset to the Defence Forces. He will have no choice but to quit because when he goes to Cork, he has to couch surf because he cannot afford to pay for accommodation. The Defence Forces will lose a good guy. He is a very good lad. The Minister of State mentioned rank and seniority but he knows of a lad junior to him who got a transfer to Collins Barracks. Will the Minister of State examine this more closely because fairness needs to be applied?
I know the Deputy from Kilkenny wants to say a word. I do not mind if he wants to speak.
It is against the rules but in the circumstances he may.
I thank the Ceann Comhairle. I thank Deputy Wallace for raising this matter. I have been talking to the Minister of State about this case for four months. The young man is trying to get back to his grandmother in Callan on compassionate grounds. He is a communications operator. There is a vacancy in Kilkenny for him and the problem lies in transferring him from the navy to the Army but it has been done. An individual, and I do not want to name anyone, who was in the same position and applied a year after him, has been transferred. Why is he being discriminated against when another person has been transferred already? Will the Minister of State consider this case personally?
I cannot nor will I get involved in any direct transfer but I will go back to the flag officer commanding and ask him to consider this case if the Deputies think there are compassionate grounds for the request.
