Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 Apr 2017

Vol. 945 No. 3

Leaders' Questions

Deputy Micheál Martin

Parents of children with special needs simply face too many barriers and obstacles to accessing services, including school placements, respite, proper and timely assessments, and basic equipment and aids to help their children get through the daily tasks of life.

For example, the number of children who are waiting for appropriate occupational therapy assessment is extraordinary. Nationally, 4,640 children have been waiting for more than a year for their first OT assessment despite the Disability Act 2005 stipulating a statutory requirement of three months. In counties Cork and Kerry, which are the worst, well over 1,700 have been waiting for longer than that period for occupational therapy assessment. Up to 60 children in one school are on a waiting list with no special school placement available to them. Some 14,000 are waiting for speech and language assessment. There is no certainty and parents are facing terrible anxiety.

As the Taoiseach knows, the therapy services are critical. The assessment and the subsequent access to services are critical to children. Those awaiting OT assessment include children with conditions such as cerebral palsy, dyspraxia and spina bifida. The lack of prioritisation in this area is a shocking indictment of what is going on.

Up to 30 parents have been waiting for two years to get a single weekend of respite. Due to cuts to its funding, the disability organisation had to apply a chronological dividing line. That was only resolved last week after we had to bring the parents' representatives to Dublin to meet the Minister of State with responsibility for those with special needs, Deputy Finian McGrath. Those parents of children with severe and profound autism have been without respite for two to three years. It should not take that long and the dynamic of a meeting to kick the system into action to provide for them.

Last week I met parents of a young child with muscular dystrophy. There is an extraordinary rationing and medieval bureaucratic system around applications for aids and appliances. I am talking about wheelchairs, specialist footwear for a child with muscular dystrophy and particular body suits that prevent scoliosis or other complications arising. I put it to the Taoiseach that a fundamental and comprehensive look needs to be taken at timely access for such services for children. The mindset and the attitude has to change and the barriers have to be taken down. Parents of children with special needs are still saying that they are facing too many barriers as well as huge stress and anxiety.

The Taoiseach

I agree this is a matter that has been examined over the years. The Government has adopted the findings of Eamon Stack's report in respect of access to services in schools for children with intellectual challenges which will eliminate many of the problems that have been around for a long time. The HSE is currently engaged in a reconfiguration of the existing therapy resources which are available to teams and spread geographically for children from birth to 18 years. As the Deputy is aware, the objective of that model of assessment is to provide a single and clear referral pathway for all children, irrespective of their disability, where they live or the school they attend, in order to streamline this. Evidence from the areas will show that implementation of the programme will have a positive impact. It has taken quite a while to get to this point.

Deputy Martin mentioned respite. The HSE and the agencies it funds provide respite care to children and adults with disabilities. It is clear there are challenges. Respite can occur in a variety of settings for any length of time depending on the needs of the family and the resources that are available. It is not always centre-based. It can be provided in a number of ways, including out of home, in home, home to home, home support and family support. As part of the continuum of services for families, respite helps prevent out-of-home placements, preserves the family unit and supports family stability. While the situation outlined by the Deputy is not as satisfactory as one would wish, the HSE is aware of the importance of the provision of respite to families of both children and adults with disabilities and the impact of the absence of respite service provision on other services.

It does not necessarily cease once a person reaches the age of 18 but this will depend on the availability of resources. As a result of the number of respite beds being used for long-term residential placements, the number of people with disabilities in receipt of residential respite services and the corresponding number of respite nights are down against previous activity. This reflects new models of respite care that are now being delivered to home respite and extended day care, etc.

The Deputy raises an important consideration, particularly for the families and the young people involved. However, it depends on the availability of trained staff and resources which is why the structure has changed. It is hoped that over time it will be far more streamlined and deliver a more effective service.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The bottom line is that it simply is not working. I refer to the case of a young child of two and a half years who needs an assessment application. The child attended in June 2016 and the family were told it would be dealt with on 23 September. They were then told in November by an assessment officer that there was a five month delay and that she was processing number 482. This child was number 981. Eventually, the family got a private assessment only to be told that an early intervention ASD unit cannot be made available because there must be a HSE assessment. These are the kind of cases that Deputies are picking up throughout the country. There are long waits for assessment and an inability to access services.

Marian House is the autism centre for assessment in Cork South Lee. The last paragraph of a letter that admittedly was sent last year reads:

Currently in Marian House there are only 8 whole time equivalent post to 770 children. This scarce resource is divided into three teams to support children from time of diagnosis... The situation is out of ... control ... we are sorry we are unable to offer a comprehensive service which you and your child deserve and require.

A similar story applies in other areas. In one area, 800 children are waiting for an autism assessment. I could go on. The system is not working. There is no point in talking about models when urgent intervention is required. It should not have to be deputation after deputation going to Ministers to get these issues resolved. The issues must be dealt with comprehensively.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy will be aware of the very close collaboration between the health and education sectors on children's disabilities in general. This is facilitated by the cross-sectoral team on the implementation of the Disability Act comprised of representatives of the Departments of Health, Education and Skills and Children and Youth Affairs, the Health Service Executive, the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, and the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, which has been established to progress specific cases.

The full implementation of the progressing disability services programme is expected before the end of 2017. A total of €8 million in additional funding was invested in 2014-15 to fund 200 additional posts to deal with the backlog to which the Deputy referred. A further €4 million in additional funding was provided for 75 therapy posts in 2016. It is expected that the reconfiguration of these services will have a significant impact.

In 2013, there were 260 prioritised front-line primary care posts, including 52 occupational therapists and 52 speech and language therapists. The aim was to address the waiting list to which the Deputy referred. In 2016, €4 million was provided under the HSE's national service plan to focus specifically on speech and language therapy waiting lists in primary and social care for children aged up to 18 years. This represents a long-term investment in speech and language capacity which will be maintained through this year and in the years ahead.

Deputy Gerry Adams

The Good Friday Agreement is the institutional, constitutional and legal framework which defines the relationship within the island of Ireland and between Ireland and Britain. I do not believe for one moment that the Government has truly absorbed this new reality. The Good Friday Agreement is an international treaty. The Taoiseach has co-equal status with the British Prime Minister and a co-equal responsibility to uphold, implement and promote all aspects of this new relationship. The biggest threat to the Agreement, the new relationship and the social and economic future of the people of this island is presented by Brexit. I am sure the Taoiseach and I agree on that at least. The British Government has ignored the vote of people in the North and London is intent on pulling that part of our island out of the European Union despite the dire consequences this will have for everyone across Ireland.

Sinn Féin has been critical of the Government's failure to hold the British Government to account for its polices in Ireland. Its approach to Brexit, the vote in the North and the Border is a monumental example of this failure. There is a crying need for a special designated status for the North within the European Union, but the Taoiseach has refused to accept or promote this position despite the vote of the people of the North and the majority support for this position in the Oireachtas and Assembly. He has also refused to advocate this position despite the fact that every citizen of the North has a right to Irish citizenship and a legal expectation that the Government will uphold his or her rights, which include the right to European citizenship after Brexit.

Let us contrast the Government's position, which is contained in Article 11 of the draft European Council negotiating guidelines, with Article 22, which contains the Spanish Government's position. Article 11 is ambiguous, opaque, conditional and qualified, whereas Article 22 is extremely clear, stating that after Brexit, no agreement between the European Union and British Government may apply to Gibraltar without the agreement of the Spanish and British Governments. This is exactly the type of veto the Government should have sought in keeping with its responsibilities for the North under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. It is also the best negotiating position to minimise the dire consequences of Brexit for all the people of this island.

Has the Taoiseach ever said to the British Government that it should accept the vote of the people of the North? He can tell me; nobody else is listening.

Has the Taoiseach ever put that point to the British Government?

These are draft EU Council guidelines and, therefore, they can be amended. The Taoiseach has the time to amend them. Will he commit to looking for an amendment as I have set out?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy and I differ on a number of issues in this regard. He does not believe that the Government is serious about dealing with Northern Ireland and the citizens of Northern Ireland. I disagree fundamentally with his political comment in that regard. He is the president and leader of his party and he has a specific responsibility now to see that an Executive is put in place in Northern Ireland, irrespective of his differences with the DUP, in order that we can have a functioning Executive that will, hopefully, put together a set of common objectives as to what the people of Northern Ireland regard as their priorities in respect of the Brexit negotiations.

The Deputy will be well aware the people in the Republic voted for the abolition of Articles 2 and 3 on the basis that the Good Friday Agreement means that Northern Ireland is regarded as part of the United Kingdom until the people decide otherwise. The position there is that what I want to see in the final outcome of the negotiated documents is the language of the Agreement, which allows for the opportunity at some future time for the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic to vote in a referendum to have a united Ireland and that there can be a seamless readmission of an area that is part of the United Kingdom by virtue of the Good Friday Agreement being recognised, in the same way as Scotland is, as a member of the European Union without having to invoke Article 49. I hope the Deputy in his discussions with his party will see to it that, irrespective of political differences, a functioning Executive is put together as quickly as possible, and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade is available to help in every way in that regard because it is important.

I pointed out yesterday that Northern Ireland is different from Gibraltar. Gibraltar joined the EU as part of the UK and any change in its status is a matter for bilateral consideration between the Kingdom of Spain and the UK. It is very different from Northern Ireland where we have an internationally legally binding agreement voted on by referendum, North and South. The people of Northern Ireland voted in the expectation and the understanding that their EU membership benefits would continue and they will continue. I have said to the British Prime Minister and her predecessor that the people in Northern Ireland have a very definite point of view and that since the Brexit referendum, of course, I recognise that Northern Ireland voted to stay, as did the people in Scotland. First Minister Sturgeon is now on the path of looking for a second independence referendum.

I follow the Good Friday Agreement and our job as co-guarantor of that is to see that all the issues relevant to the Agreement are implemented in full.

Deputy Gerry Adams

I will not take lectures from the Taoiseach about my responsibilities or, indeed, the responsibilities of Sinn Féin. We are very aware of those and we look to his Government to uphold its end of all that.

However, he refused to answer my question. I asked him where he has said to the British Government that it should accept the vote of the people of the North. The Taoiseach clearly did not put that position but the main thrust of what I was trying to say was that these are draft negotiating guidelines and he has the opportunity to secure a stronger position. For example, he may know that the European Parliament voted earlier on a joint resolution, which contains stronger commitments about the North and the island of Ireland than either the Government's position or these guidelines.

I am sure the Taoiseach knows that the only way to stop a hard economic border on the island of Ireland is to have special status for the North within the EU. I come back to what I said previously. The Taoiseach should have been seeking the type of position which the Spanish secured. His answer shows he does not understand his responsibility as Taoiseach under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement because there is now a new relationship. He has equal responsibility along with the British Government for all of this new relationship.

Will the Taoiseach commit to that? Will he say "Yes" or "No"?

The Taoiseach

I hope the election results in Northern Ireland have not gone to the Deputy's head in that he knows everything about everything. I fully understand my responsibilities here. These are draft guidelines and they are to be signed off by the Council of the European Union on 29 April. They are draft guidelines. There are 26 other countries involved with their particular points of view and one of those countries is Spain. The Spanish position in respect of Gibraltar is an entirely different concept from that which applies in the case of Northern Ireland. The Deputy is aware of the Good Friday Agreement. He is aware of a referendum, North and South. He is aware -----

Deputy Gerry Adams

Will the Taoiseach answer the question?

The Taoiseach

-----this is the only unique, particular, specific special case in Europe where the land border will apply. We do not want a return to a hard border and we will not have a return to a hard border. That has been agreed by the Irish and British Governments and is reflected in the Prime Minister's letter triggering Article 50. It is reflected in the European Parliament's paperwork and document about Northern Ireland, the Border, the peace process and the common travel area and it is reflected in the European Union's Council-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Is that "Yes" or "No"?

The Taoiseach

-----draft guidelines which will be negotiated and signed off on 29 April.

Deputy Gerry Adams

Is the Taoiseach going to strengthen the position?

The Taoiseach

Far from the Deputy's assessment that the Government does not appreciate or understand the concept here, we have negotiated to this point in respect of 26 other countries-----

Deputy Gerry Adams

It is not good enough.

The Taoiseach

-----for looking after our priorities which are our economy, our citizens, the Border, the common travel area and the peace process in recognising that unique, particular, special set of circumstance that apply in Northern Ireland. I will not take any lectures from Deputy Adams in this matter.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

We read in today's newspapers that the Tánaiste, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, yesterday secured Cabinet approval to establish an independent root and branch review of An Garda Síochána. The Taoiseach is aware that the Labour Party published draft terms of reference for such a review last weekend. We have seen no similar draft terms of reference from the Government. I will meet with the Tánaiste later today and I understand other bilateral meetings with the other leaders will also happen. We will support this process if we are satisfied it is fully independent and will lead to the necessary reforms that there is a consensus on in the House and among the public. At this stage, it is important the review gets under way. What I have not seen in the papers is any urgency to implement the existing proposals for reform.

We have spoken in this Chamber many times about the many existing recommendations the Garda Inspectorate has published. We debated them during my time in Government and more recently in this House. There is no recent implementation update on those groundbreaking, important, specific recommendations. It is clear to me the commitment to reform at management level within An Garda Síochána is limited. In addition to our proposals on an independent review of An Garda Síochána, we proposed that the powers of the Policing Authority be expanded. These powers must include giving the Policing Authority the capacity to direct An Garda Síochána to implement the proposals made by the Garda Inspectorate. I am glad to see this proposal has gathered support from other parties in the House. Does the Taoiseach agree this change to the powers of the Policing Authority is needed? Will he task the Tánaiste with drafting the necessary legislative changes to allow this as a matter of urgency and in the meantime will he arrange for an urgent implementation update to be published on each of the recommendations of the Garda Inspectorate setting out what has been implemented to date, which ones are in the process of being implemented, including a clear timeline for each, and what are simply being ignored?

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Howlin for his question and for his party's submission in this regard. One of the reasons the Government did not sign off finally yesterday in respect of a root and branch reform of the structure and future policing operations of An Garda Síochána is that, as I informed the House yesterday, I received the final report of the Fennelly commission last Friday at 6 p.m.

I am duty-bound by law to refer that report to the Attorney General, and I intend to publish that report as soon as the Attorney General informs me that it is in order to do so. The reason that it has to go to the Attorney General is as to whether a question arises that there might be implications in respect of any pending case, legal or whatever. I hope that can apply this week, and it would be wrong of me or the Tánaiste to come into the House and say that we are now signing off on all of the issues in respect of future structures for the Garda Síochána, policing arrangements and so on without taking into account the potential impact of the recommendations that are contained in the final report of the Fennelly commission.

The Tánaiste has undertaken to talk to the Opposition Members and spokespersons on justice so that the Oireachtas can have a complete view on this, and that is why I say that, when I receive authorisation to publish Fennelly in its final entity, everybody should have an opportunity to read that and see whether people have views as to how that impacts on the-----

Deputy Brendan Howlin

When will that be?

The Taoiseach

I expect that will be this week.

The Tánaiste looked at the question of management and structures, composition, recruitment and training of personnel, culture and ethos of policing, and the structures and legislative basis for oversight and accountability. I confirm to the Deputy that she has not seen the Fennelly report and she has not been briefed on the Fennelly report. She does not know what is in the Fennelly report, nor can she until I receive notification from the Attorney General that it is in order to publish it.

The Deputy mentioned reforms that were under way.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

The inspectorate.

The Taoiseach

The Commissioner's modernisation and renewal programme 2016 to 2021 is designed to address the hundreds of recommendations in various reports into An Garda Síochána, including the most recent report from the Garda Inspectorate, "Changing Policing in Ireland". That is a five-year programme with 73 recommendations in it. The current district model of policing will be replaced on a phased basis with a divisional one, where responsibilities are allocated on a functional rather than a geographical basis subject to modifications to meet the needs of large rural divisions and ensure that the close relationship with communities is maintained, which is so important. In line with international experience, a mid-term goal of 20% of civilians for the overall Garda workforce is to be achieved through a civilian-by-default policy to be adopted in relation to the filling of all new posts, other than operational policing posts, and non-operational policing posts that become vacant, a redeployment of gardaí and backfilling by suitably qualified civilians where necessary. Mr. Olson, who is in charge of the inspectorate, has been very clear on these things. Ongoing work to increase the Garda workforce to 21,000 personnel by 2021, comprising 15,000 Garda members, 2,000 Garda Reserve members and 4,000 civilians, is all under way.

I take the Deputy's point about publishing the progress that there has been, and that is very important. I will see that the Tánaiste responds to that comprehensively.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply and I accept, as regards the terms of reference for the review, that we need to read exactly what the Fennelly report has recommended. We will engage on that basis. However, what I heard from the Taoiseach regarding what was happening right now was that there was an implementation of the Commissioner's agenda for reform. I am asking about the inspectorate's reports. They are ground breaking, far reaching and truly reforming. Will those specific recommendations be implemented?

The Taoiseach

Yes.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Can we have a published timeline on that? In the meanwhile, is it the Government's view that we can have continued confidence in the current management of An Garda Síochána in light of what we now know and the views of the majority in the House and of the people?

The Taoiseach

The answer to the Deputy's question is "Yes". The position is that the Garda Inspectorate produced a very clear report.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Several.

The Taoiseach

That has been published. There is a monitoring and implementation of that. It is an extended programme of, I think, 73 recommendations. Obviously, the Tánaiste will publish the up-to-date monitoring and implementation of that, which is quite an independent matter. That will be available publicly, and rightly so, so that people can have continued trust-----

Deputy Brendan Howlin

When will that be?

The Taoiseach

The report is published, as the Deputy knows. I do not where the up-to-date publication of what is actually under way to be implemented is, but we will have that very shortly for everybody.

As I said before in respect of confidence in the Commissioner, I retain confidence in her to see that the changes recommended independently are being rolled out and timelined, as happens in the case of plans in other areas, including education, jobs and so on.

I also take the Deputy's point in regard to the independent Policing Authority. A number of vacancies have been advertised by the Policing Authority. Following the Government's decision, the nature of appointments at senior level in An Garda Síochána into the future will be independent of the Garda Commissioner and Government of the day. I believe this was the right thing to do. That process is under way and being followed. When the Tánaiste meets the Opposition spokespersons she will give them a full briefing on all of these matters.

Deputy Seamus Healy

Tracker mortgage fraud by the banks is a huge scandal which requires criminal investigation. These are the same banks that we, the public, bailed out to the tune of billions of euro. Some 17,000 mortgages have been found to be affected thus far and there are more than 2 million accounts being queried and examined. This has the potential to be a €500 million scandal. Mortgage holders have been over-charged to the tune of €20,000 to €30,000. All 15 lenders are involved, including Allied Irish Bank and Permanent TSB which we, the State, own. Two of the 15 lenders have confirmed that 15 families have lost their homes and a further 14 are facing repossessions. As we have details from only two banks, this is likely to be only the tip of the iceberg. Most, if not all, of the houses repossessed have been repossessed by the original lenders, the banks which did the damage originally.

According to a statement made by the Governor of the Central Bank, Mr. Lane, there is a systemic and widespread aspect to the tracker scandal. He has said, "Underneath it all ... this is a cultural issue which is interpreting contracts in favour of the lender and not in favour of the customer". He has further stated that he could not rule out the hypothesis of collusion between some lenders. In view of those statements and this scandal will the Taoiseach ensure that free, professional legal and financial advice is made available to the mortgage holders affected? Will he give an assurance that the banks will be instructed to stop insisting that hard pressed families sign away their legal rights in order to access any degree of compensation and that any such signature already provided by defrauded borrowers will be rendered null and avoid? Will he also, through the Minister for Justice and Equality, ask the Garda fraud squad to call in the chief executives of the banks concerned for questioning with a view to prosecution for fraud?

The Taoiseach

I note the comments by the Governor in respect of the tracker mortgages, including that consideration be given to follow through in regard to some of the activities that have gone on in this area. Nobody wants to see people lose their homes. The number of mortgages in distress has fallen substantially from what it was a number of years ago because of the various options put in place by Government at different times to help different categories of mortgage holders under pressure and cases in distress. A number of people have voluntarily given up their homes and others have availed of the services of MABS and other elements of support that have been provided by Government and the line Department. The allegation of illegal activities in respect of tracker mortgages will be followed-through.

Deputy Healy will be aware that any person who has a difficulty with his or her mortgage is eligible for assistance in terms of financial and legal advice and to have representation made available to him or her to negotiate directly with the lenders in these cases.

Unfortunately, in some cases there have not been any consultations or conversations between lenders and borrowers. At the end of the day, these things always have to be sorted out through some mediation facility. The Government has made a range of such facilities available. I hope people continue to avail of them. We would like to see as many of these cases as possible sorted out so that people can continue to live in their own homes.

Deputy Seamus Healy

We are not talking about mortgage distress, as such. We are talking about illegality on the part of the banks leading to mortgage distress and, in many cases, to the repossession of family homes and borrowers losing their properties. We learned from the banking inquiry that the culture permeating the banks was also endemic in the Central Bank and the Department of Finance. There is no guarantee that existing regulations will be implemented by any branch of the financial elites. The Government's task is to prevent fraud and, when fraud takes place, to prosecute those responsible. It is possible that the delay in ordering a Garda fraud investigation into this matter has already led to the destruction or alteration of relevant records with a view to blaming subordinates. Will the Taoiseach order an immediate criminal investigation to prevent any further cover-ups in this regard? Will he sack the highly paid public interest directors and Government nominees on the boards of these banks who failed to bring this matter to the attention of the Legislature?

The Taoiseach

As the Deputy is aware, it is not for me to order criminal investigations. Where illegal activities are proven to have taken place, the full force of the criminal law is behind those who have illegal acts perpetrated against them. In other words, the criminal law will rightly apply in all cases where illegal activity has taken place.