I call on Deputy Ó Snodaigh to announce the Order of Business for the week ahead.
Order of Business
Seo tairiscint an Choiste Gnó maidir le gnó na seachtaine seo.
Tuesday’s business shall be No. 4, motion re Committee on the Future of Healthcare to extend its deadline to report back to the Dáil; No. a9, statements on water; and No. 9, statements on Brexit, to include No. 10, motion re report of the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs entitled Committee Travel to Brussels 7-8 February 2017 (resumed). Private Members' business shall be No. 98, motion re reform of An Garda Síochána selected by Fianna Fáil.
Wednesday's business shall be No. 10a, statements on the report of the Fennelly commission, and No. 9, statements on Brexit, to include No. 10, motion re report of the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs entitled "Committee Travel to Brussels 7-8 February 2017", resumed. Private Members’ business shall be No. 99, motion re the Garda Commissioner, selected by Sinn Féin.
Thursday’s business shall be No. 1, Inland Fisheries Bill 2017 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, and No. 11, Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict (Hague Convention) Bill 2016 [Seanad] - Second Stage, resumed. Second Stage of No. 21, Prohibition of Micro-Plastics Bill 2016, will be debated in the evening slot.
With regard to the proposed arrangements for this week's business, I refer Members to the revised report of the Business Committee dated 11 April 2017.
As regards today's business, it is proposed that: the motion re the Committee on the Future of Healthcare to extend its deadline to report back to the Dáil will be taken without debate; the statements on water shall conclude within 80 minutes, with the statements confined to an opening round from a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons for parties and groups, or a Member nominated in their stead, which shall not exceed ten minutes each and all Members may share time.
Regarding Wednesday’s business, it is proposed that the statements on the report of the Fennelly commission shall conclude within 90 minutes, with statements confined to the opening round and a single second round. On the opening round, statements of a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons for parties and groups, or a Member nominated in their stead, shall not exceed ten minutes each. The second round of ten minutes in total shall be confined to members of the Government, Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin to be divided proportionally on a 40-40-20 basis, respectively, and all Members may share time.
In the context of Thursday’s business, it is proposed that the Dáil on its rising shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 2 May 2017.
There are three proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with today's business agreed to?
It is not agreed. I object to the proposal of statements on water, for which 80 minutes have been allocated. I remind Members that last week, when publication of the draft report was postponed, it was understood that time for debate would be allocated for tomorrow morning and on Thursday morning. There was also an understanding that a motion would be brought forward in respect of the report. Instead, we are offered statements for 80 minutes today. I am advised that Ministers were not available to take the debate on water charges in the Dáil on Wednesday and Thursday. If true, that is astonishing. Nonetheless, we will not accept statements today. We need the report, as drafted, to come through the committee and a motion to come to the floor of the Dáil for Members to debate and on which a vote will be taken - a vote taken in line with the original findings of the committee, in line with the electoral mandate of the majority of Deputies elected to the Dáil and in line with the expectations of hundreds of thousands of people across the State.
On a point of order, we agreed the Order of Business at the Business Committee this morning. I am getting tired of going to the Business Committee every week and having agreed the business at the Thursday meeting seeing it changed the following week. We agreed the business at 11.15 a.m. today.
It certainly was our understanding that the Joint Committee on the Future Funding of Domestic Water Services would issue its findings today and that there would be two sessions scheduled for the debate on water. That was the understanding last week, not 80 minutes of statements. The concept of statements is becoming quite comical to the public. We continually make statements rather than decisions. People want a decision to be made in respect of this matter. With all due respect to Deputy Mattie McGrath, we want a decision. We have no wish to talk about water for ever either. We should not have to do so. It is clear that the public gave its opinion, regardless of whether people like it. There appears to be prevarication on the Taoiseach's side of the House.
Why was that cut back to 80 minutes, and why was it changed, a Cheann Comhairle?
To be helpful to the two Deputies, procedurally one cannot bring a motion for something that has not concluded yet. We are all aware the Oireachtas committee on water is still concluding its deliberations downstairs. Once the committee has accepted a draft report I will bring a motion to the House asking it to vote on that draft report but I cannot do it before the committee has finished its work. That was discussed at length this morning. The reason we have statements is to allow everybody to share their views on either accepting or not accepting the draft report.
Which we will not have seen.
More time was requested this morning for the report and it was also agreed that because the legislation will be before the Houses in the next month, ample time will be given to every single Member of this House to discuss the pending legislation after the draft report has been accepted or rejected by the Dáil.
A Cheann Comhairle-----
Was that agreed by everybody at the meeting?
I did not even object to the two weeks.
We were on a roll.
A Cheann Comhairle-----
Order, please.
I say, respectfully, that is the most arse-about-face approach I have ever heard in my life.
A Cheann Comhairle. One cannot be disrespectful.
The Chief Whip cannot bring the motion because the committee has not completed its work-----
But that is-----
Excuse me, but we are to have statements in the absence of that report. That is absolutely farcical and a joke. We are certainly not agreeable to that. What we need is the report, a motion, a debate and a decision. I entirely agree with Deputy Coppinger.
Could I ask Deputy McDonald to clarify whether it is her proposal then that we do not have the statements if the report is not available to us?
It is our proposal that we have the debate on Wednesday and Thursday, as committed to last week, and that the debate is premised on the basis of a motion on the basis of a completed report from the committee. As we know, the report has been drafted and there is a rearguard action by some now to tear it asunder but that is what needs to happen and that is the efficient way for us to go about our business.
I wish to be clear, for everyone. I am in the hands of the House on this and I cannot determine what we will or will not do but what was decided last week was that the Business Committee would meet this morning at 11.30 a.m. to consider what was the position on the report from the committee. When we met at 11.30 a.m., there was no report from the water committee and nor could we be certain that there would be, but there was a feeling among the Members present at the Business Committee that the issue was so important that there should be statements today on the matter.
Most people were in favour of that and that is why we are where we are in terms of the proposal before us. If Members wish to do something else-----
A Cheann Comhairle, could I make a point?
Yes, of course.
It seems to me that Deputy Ó Snodaigh faithfully read out what the Business Committee had agreed this morning. We are happy to go along with that, but within a minute, Deputy McDonald disagreed with Deputy Ó Snodaigh's proposal.
She is entitled to do that.
It is just ridiculous carry-on.
Fianna Fáil did the same.
Fianna Fáil did the same last week.
We did not, actually. The point I made is that within a minute, we got conflicting propositions on the Sinn Féin Party's position. One would have thought the Sinn Féin position would have been clear at this morning's meeting. That is a reasonable expectation.
I am sorry, a Cheann Comhairle.
We have no difficulty with the statements this evening and we have no difficulty with a debate-----
I am sure Deputy Martin does not.
-----on Thursday and Friday-----
Good Friday.
-----because we did most of the heavy lifting on this work over many weeks, far more heavy lifting than Sinn Féin has ever done on the water issue since this Dáil was formed.
Deputy Martin looks traumatised.
That is very noble of Deputy Martin.
We will have a final comment from Deputy McDonald and then we will move on. I am sorry but I cannot call Deputy Ó Snodaigh.
The reality is that we have reached decision time on the issue and the kicking of cans down the road has to stop. To repeat, what we need is a motion, a debate and a decision on the report. Statements serve absolutely no useful purpose bar for those who perhaps wish to prevaricate and to shove the issue further down the road again. Deputy Ó Snodaigh read out the proposed business on behalf of the committee. It was not a personal statement by him and I am setting out the considered position of Sinn Féin on this matter.
Again, for the record, Deputy Ó Snodaigh is acting as a rapporteur-----
Precisely.
-----on behalf of the committee so he is quite entitled to present the position and a party is quite entitled to challenge that.
It happened before though. There is a different reaction from everybody here. Let us be honest. There is a lot of hypocrisy now.
There may well be. I am going to put the question.
Before the Ceann Comhairle puts the question, I wish to comment in an attempt to be helpful. It is the Government's position to bring forward the motion if the committee concludes its deliberations before 6.05 p.m. If the committee does not conclude its deliberations, I am procedurally unable to bring forward a motion or put something to the House.
Stick to the original agreement.
Therefore, the debate and statements will start at 6.05 p.m. If the Joint Committee on Future Funding of Domestic Water Services has concluded its deliberations at that stage or beforehand, I will bring forward the motion. If not, the motion will be dealt with during the voting block on Thursday.
Exactly. Is the proposal for dealing with Tuesday's business agreed to?
Not agreed.
Question put:
The Dáil divided: Tá, 92; Níl, 35; Staon, 0.
Tá
- Bailey, Maria.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Brassil, John.
- Brophy, Colm.
- Browne, James.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burke, Peter.
- Burton, Joan.
- Butler, Mary.
- Byrne, Catherine.
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Canney, Seán.
- Cannon, Ciarán.
- Carey, Joe.
- Casey, Pat.
- Cassells, Shane.
- Chambers, Jack.
- Chambers, Lisa.
- Collins, Niall.
- Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
- Coveney, Simon.
- Creed, Michael.
- Curran, John.
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Deasy, John.
- Doherty, Regina.
- Donnelly, Stephen S.
- Donohoe, Paschal.
- Dooley, Timmy.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Farrell, Alan.
- Fitzgerald, Frances.
- Fitzpatrick, Peter.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Fleming, Sean.
- Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
- Grealish, Noel.
- Halligan, John.
- Harris, Simon.
- Harty, Michael.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Healy-Rae, Danny.
- Healy-Rae, Michael.
- Heydon, Martin.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Humphreys, Heather.
- Kehoe, Paul.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Kyne, Seán.
- Lahart, John.
- Lawless, James.
- McEntee, Helen.
- McGrath, Mattie.
- McGrath, Michael.
- McGuinness, John.
- McHugh, Joe.
- McLoughlin, Tony.
- MacSharry, Marc.
- Madigan, Josepha.
- Martin, Micheál.
- Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
- Moran, Kevin Boxer.
- Moynihan, Aindrias.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Murphy O'Mahony, Margaret.
- Murphy, Dara.
- Murphy, Eoghan.
- Murphy, Eugene.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Naughton, Hildegarde.
- Neville, Tom.
- Noonan, Michael.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- O'Brien, Darragh.
- O'Callaghan, Jim.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donovan, Patrick.
- O'Dowd, Fergus.
- O'Loughlin, Fiona.
- O'Rourke, Frank.
- O'Sullivan, Jan.
- Phelan, John Paul.
- Rabbitte, Anne.
- Ross, Shane.
- Ryan, Brendan.
- Scanlon, Eamon.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Smyth, Niamh.
- Troy, Robert.
Níl
- Barry, Mick.
- Boyd Barrett, Richard.
- Brady, John.
- Buckley, Pat.
- Collins, Joan.
- Connolly, Catherine.
- Coppinger, Ruth.
- Crowe, Seán.
- Cullinane, David.
- Daly, Clare.
- Doherty, Pearse.
- Ellis, Dessie.
- Ferris, Martin.
- Healy, Seamus.
- Kenny, Gino.
- McDonald, Mary Lou.
- Martin, Catherine.
- Mitchell, Denise.
- Munster, Imelda.
- Murphy, Catherine.
- Murphy, Paul.
- Ó Broin, Eoin.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O'Brien, Jonathan.
- O'Reilly, Louise.
- O'Sullivan, Maureen.
- Pringle, Thomas.
- Quinlivan, Maurice.
- Ryan, Eamon.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Stanley, Brian.
- Tóibín, Peadar.
- Wallace, Mick.
Staon
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Regina Doherty and Tony McLoughlin; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Denise Mitchell.
Question declared carried.
Is the proposal for dealing with Wednesday's business agreed to?
Can I ask a question?
Yes.
It is for clarity. Statements will be taken today. When the report is completed by the committee, will a motion be brought to the Dáil and will time be made available for a debate?
Will the Government bring forward a motion?
As I said beforehand, we will endeavour to have the motion this evening.
No. If the Government does not have the motion this evening-----
The Deputy can have only one intervention.
This is important, a Cheann Comhairle.
I know it is very important but the Deputy can have only one intervention.
Thank you, and I would like one answer to that question.
The Deputy got the answer.
It is a reasonable question.
To continue the point, as Deputy McDonald cannot come in again, if the committee report is not ready by this evening, which I would say is highly possible at this stage, if at all, and a motion flows from that, will the Government allow for a debate on that motion?
Again, to answer the question, the intention of Government is to have the motion before the debate this evening.
If not-----
If that is not possible, we will revert to the Business Committee tomorrow.
We will move on. Is the proposal for dealing with Wednesday's business agreed to?
It is not agreed on the basis that there is uncertainty around this matter of the debate on the motion arising from the committee report. I say respectfully to the Business Committee that this is very messy.
It is only yourselves who are making it messy.
My concern is that we will have statements this evening, which is fine.
You were paying for it and then you were not paying for it-----
Can we have order now, please?
I was not talking to Deputy Kehoe. I am addressing the Ceann Comhairle.
Deputy McDonald is holding everyone up. She is wasting time.
Please have respect for Deputy McDonald. She has the floor.
Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle. My concern is that in the middle of this messing-----
The Deputy is messing.
-----there will be a motion but that time will not be afforded to debate it. We will be in the ridiculous position, therefore, where we will have statements in advance of the report but no substantive debate on the motion. That is a farcical way to go about our business.
I want to put on the record that normally when there is a dispute about the debate it goes back to the Business Committee. I want to make it clear that we have no objection to having a debate on a motion. We did not ask for statements this evening. My understanding is that Sinn Féin and others asked for statements this evening at the Business Committee. I might be wrong but my understanding is that is what happened, and then suddenly-----
Deputy Martin was not there.
My understanding all along was that there was to be a debate on the report. I propose-----
(Interruptions).
Can we have order, please?
Hold on a second. An attempt is being made here to imply that somebody somewhere mystically is blocking something. It is very simple. The Business Committee should be reconvened if there is such a breakdown in agreement, even though it met this morning and apparently agreed all of this. Clearly, that has broken down. I respectfully suggest that the Business Committee meets and sorts this out in terms of what it wants.
As a member of the Business Committee-----
Deputy McGrath will bring a bit of wisdom to the debate.
-----I resent being accused of messing. We do our business in the best manner we can and I object to the way it is being changed and undermined here, but I will not accept that we are messing. I would prefer if Deputy McDonald withdrew that comment.
Is the proposal for dealing with Wednesday's business agreed to?
Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with Wednesday's sitting be agreed to."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 97; Níl, 34; Staon, 0.
Tá
- Bailey, Maria.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Brassil, John.
- Brophy, Colm.
- Browne, James.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burke, Peter.
- Burton, Joan.
- Butler, Mary.
- Byrne, Catherine.
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Canney, Seán.
- Cannon, Ciarán.
- Carey, Joe.
- Casey, Pat.
- Cassells, Shane.
- Chambers, Jack.
- Chambers, Lisa.
- Collins, Niall.
- Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
- Coveney, Simon.
- Creed, Michael.
- Curran, John.
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Daly, Clare.
- Deasy, John.
- Doherty, Regina.
- Donnelly, Stephen S.
- Donohoe, Paschal.
- Dooley, Timmy.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Farrell, Alan.
- Fitzgerald, Frances.
- Fitzpatrick, Peter.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Fleming, Sean.
- Grealish, Noel.
- Halligan, John.
- Harris, Simon.
- Harty, Michael.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Healy-Rae, Danny.
- Healy-Rae, Michael.
- Heydon, Martin.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Humphreys, Heather.
- Kehoe, Paul.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Kyne, Seán.
- Lahart, John.
- Lawless, James.
- MacSharry, Marc.
- McEntee, Helen.
- McGrath, Finian.
- McGrath, Mattie.
- McGrath, Michael.
- McGuinness, John.
- McHugh, Joe.
- McLoughlin, Tony.
- Madigan, Josepha.
- Martin, Catherine.
- Martin, Micheál.
- Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
- Moran, Kevin Boxer.
- Moynihan, Aindrias.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Murphy O'Mahony, Margaret.
- Murphy, Dara.
- Murphy, Eoghan.
- Murphy, Eugene.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Naughton, Hildegarde.
- Neville, Tom.
- Noonan, Michael.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- O'Brien, Darragh.
- O'Callaghan, Jim.
- O'Connell, Kate.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donovan, Patrick.
- O'Dowd, Fergus.
- O'Loughlin, Fiona.
- O'Rourke, Frank.
- O'Sullivan, Jan.
- Phelan, John Paul.
- Rabbitte, Anne.
- Ross, Shane.
- Ryan, Brendan.
- Ryan, Eamon.
- Scanlon, Eamon.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Smyth, Niamh.
- Troy, Robert.
- Wallace, Mick.
Níl
- Barry, Mick.
- Boyd Barrett, Richard.
- Brady, John.
- Broughan, Thomas P.
- Buckley, Pat.
- Collins, Joan.
- Connolly, Catherine.
- Coppinger, Ruth.
- Crowe, Seán.
- Cullinane, David.
- Doherty, Pearse.
- Ellis, Dessie.
- Ferris, Martin.
- Healy, Seamus.
- Kenny, Gino.
- McDonald, Mary Lou.
- Mitchell, Denise.
- Munster, Imelda.
- Murphy, Catherine.
- Murphy, Paul.
- Nolan, Carol.
- Ó Broin, Eoin.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O'Brien, Jonathan.
- O'Reilly, Louise.
- O'Sullivan, Maureen.
- Pringle, Thomas.
- Quinlivan, Maurice.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Smith, Bríd.
- Stanley, Brian.
- Tóibín, Peadar.
Staon
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Regina Doherty and Tony McLoughlin; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Denise Mitchell.
Question declared carried.
I take it now that if the committee reports, a Business Committee meeting will be convened to table the motion and the time required, be it on Wednesday or Thursday of this week, and hopefully there will be sufficient time proposed by that Business Committee meeting.
If the House requires a Business Committee meeting to be held, then we will hold it and we will consider those matters.
The objective is to bring the motion to the House this evening. If that happens then the Deputy's request will not need to be acceded to.
Is the proposal for dealing with Thursday's business agreed to?
I understand that my colleague raised on the Business Committee the prospect of a debate on the Bus Éireann situation. Will the Ceann Comhairle give an assurance that such a motion could be tabled between 10 a.m. and 12 noon on Thursday? I raise this issue because at that point workers will have been on strike for more than 20 days. This is the equivalent of four week's pay for most people, four weeks multiplied by five days being 20 days. The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Shane Ross, has been pretending that the situation has nothing to do with him.
Wait now, Deputy.
This should be-----
We cannot have a debate on the matter.
We-----
We cannot have a debate on the matter.
The reason we should debate it is the 2,600 workers who depend for their livelihood on Bus Éireann. There is talk of redundancies and reducing the composite pay of the workers by a dramatic amount. We have not had a proper debate on this in the Dáil. We have had Topical Issue debate with Deputies speaking for one minute, but this is obviously the key industrial dispute of our time over recent months and we should be debating it in Dáil Éireann. I ask the Ceann Comhairle to agree that we could table something between 10 a.m. and 12 noon on Thursday.
It is not for me to agree. It is a matter for the Business Committee to agree. Deputy Coppinger's colleague, Deputy Mick Barry, raised this issue this morning. We are conscious of the fact that as we speak, the Labour Court is considering this particular subject. We have adopted a protocol around how to deal with industrial disputes. Members agreed today that if the Labour Court fails to reach an agreement today, the matter would again be considered by the Business Committee and time would be made available for a debate.
Is the proposal for dealing with Thursday's business agreed to? Agreed.