Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 11 May 2017

Vol. 950 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

Housing Issues

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this matter and I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne, for attending to deal with it. It is very disappointing that the Minister of State, Deputy English, who has direct responsibility, is not here to take the matter and to account for his handling of the issue to which it relates. The Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne, can update us as to why he is not here. I can only assume it is because he does not want to have to account for how this has been dealt with and delayed.

To summarise, there has been an ongoing issue for a number of years in Donegal whereby houses have been affected by defective blocks containing high levels of mica. As a result, the walls of houses across Donegal have been deteriorating to varying degrees. In some cases, it has gone to the extent that houses are no longer habitable and will have to be demolished. In the vast majority of cases, it is the outer leaf of the two walls that is affected by cracking and it has not gone to the inside. Time is of the essence, however, because homes are deteriorating and the pressure and stress on families is immense, as one can imagine.

Unfortunately, at every stage of this process, the Government has had to be pulled and dragged in order to get it involved to deal with the issue and to assist those families involved. Finally, after much lobbying, the Government announced in November 2015 that it was going to establish an expert panel to examine the issue and come back with recommendations as to what the remedies might be. The terms of reference for that panel, announced in November 2015, indicated that the conclusion of the report was to be finalised by 31 May 2016 - that is last year, not 31 May 2017, which is just two weeks away, so we are almost a year past the reporting date announced by the Government. Naturally, the Government announced this three months before the general election but, after that, it dragged its heels once more. It did not appoint a chairman of that expert panel until February. It then announced the report would not be published until the summer. The report was delayed until October and we were then told that it would not be available until Christmas. In February it was finally submitted to the Government. For the past two to three months we have been told it is with the Attorney General but there is no sign of it being published.

Meanwhile, homeowners across County Donegal and in parts of Mayo are waiting to discover the results and recommendations of that expert panel. That panel comprised engineers and people from different disciplines. Those individuals met homeowners, examined houses and also took scientific advice as to what exactly was the dynamic which was causing these blocks to be defective, and what the possible solutions would be. Homeowners are waiting to see what that expert panel decides and what the remedies might be before they take action.

Once this report is published and assessed, the next issue will be to move on to a redress scheme to assist homeowners to provide remedies. It is clear that families will not be able to afford the type of repairs which are required. Unfortunately, the Government has been found wanting at all stages and has delayed and dithered. It is time for the dithering to stop and for the report to be published. It is with the Government and the families are looking forward to seeing it. Can the Minister of State indicate that it will be published and give us a commitment that this will be done immediately?

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (Deputy Catherine Byrne)

I thank Deputy McConalogue for raising this matter. I apologise that the Minister of State, Deputy Damien English, cannot be present. I do not know why that is but I was asked to take the Topical Issue. I will read the reply, although I am sure Deputy McConalogue knows most of the details, and I will then take questions.

I will take this matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney. At the outset, I wish to acknowledge the very difficult and distressing situation that certain homeowners in Donegal and Mayo are facing on account of damage to the structural integrity of their homes. It is the Minister's firm belief that the parties responsible for poor workmanship, the supply of defective materials or both should face up to their responsibilities and take appropriate actions to provide remedies for the affected homeowners.

An expert panel on concrete blocks was established by the Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government in April 2016 to investigate the problems that have emerged in the concrete blockwork of certain dwellings in Donegal and Mayo. The membership of the expert panel on concrete blocks was formally announced on 6 April 2016, following the appointment of the chairperson, Mr. Denis McCarthy, on 1 February 2016.

The panel has the following terms of reference: to identify, in so far as it is possible, the number of private dwellings which appear to be affected by defects in the block work in the counties of Donegal and Mayo; to carry out a desktop study, which would include a consultation process with affected home owners, public representatives, local authorities, product manufacturers, building professionals, testing laboratories, industry stakeholders and other relevant parties, to establish the nature of the problem in the affected dwellings; to outline a range of technical options for remediation and the means by which those technical options could be applied; and to submit a report within six months.

The expert panel on concrete blocks met on 12 occasions since it was first established and a similar number of meetings have taken place with key stakeholders, including affected home owners, the elected members of Donegal County Council and Mayo County Council, local authority officials, industry bodies, academics, public representatives and other interested parties. A substantial volume of information has been provided by affected home owners in both counties, as well as from Donegal County Council and Mayo County Council. Additional information was also provided through the consultation process.

The panel has now concluded its meetings and is in the process of finalising its report which is undergoing legal proofing, which I anticipate will be completed shortly. In this regard, the Minister will await the outcome of the panel's report before considering what further actions may be required to assist the parties directly involved in reaching a satisfactory resolution to the problems that have emerged in the two counties.

I am sure the Deputy will tell me he knows all that. I will refer to some of his statement when he concludes.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

I thank the Minister of State for her response. She is correct that I am going to come back and say I know all that. There is no new information there. I have asked parliamentary questions consistently, both on the floor of the Dáil and for written answer, to the Minister for the past number of years, but in particular in regard to the conclusion of this report in the past number of months. Recent replies I have got have been exactly the same with no change in the position. It is the same today.

As I said, the Government has been ducking and diving on this issue. Unfortunately, the Minister seems to be ducking and diving in terms of accounting for it here today.

The commitment, when this was announced in November 2015 some three months before the general election, was that the report would be finished by 31 May last year. It is almost 31 May one year later and there is still no report.

This report is completed and it is on the Minister's desk. He does not need to obfuscate or indicate that somehow he does not have it and that it is undergoing legal proofing, because we have been told in oral responses here previously that he has it and that he has referred it to the Attorney General. It is more ducking and diving, instead of generating a sense of urgency on this and publishing the report.

Families cannot wait on it. They have been expecting it for a long time. They cannot get their own expert advice, with each talking individually to scientists about the issue and to engineers about the solution. It is up to the expert panel to collate that.

The panel has been charged with that work. Its final result is the report which everyone, including the families themselves and the Members of the Dáil, needs to consider. Subsequently, we must determine what supports, remedies and schemes need to be put in place to provide financial assistance to families, which will be a job of work. Much work will need to be done to address and remedy these family homes. Will the Minister of State go back to the Minister of State, Deputy English, and tell him to get a move on, stop ducking and diving on this, and publish this report?

Deputy Catherine Byrne

I note the frustration of both the Deputy and those who have lived in homes which are falling down around them, which I have seen, not only in person but in documentaries as well.

All I can give the Deputy is the information I have been given. When speaking to the Department before I came in here, because I anticipated the Deputy's reaction to the reply, I was told that the report is still with the Attorney General, the Minister hopes to receive it in the next couple of weeks and then it will be outlined to Members, the local authorities and, in particular, to the homeowners.

I will bring back to the Minister the Deputy's concerns and, above all, frustration. Being honest with the Deputy, if I was receiving this reply I would be as frustrated as he is. I can only relay to the Deputy what I have been told by the Department and in the reply.

I will follow it up for the Deputy and I will make sure that gets his answer. However, my information from the Department is that the Minister has not received the final document. It is with the Attorney General because many issues were raised during the consultation process and in meeting owners of these houses. All I can give the Deputy is the information I have but I will come back to him or ask the Minister to come back to him regarding when the document will be finally published, if that is to the Deputy's liking.

Rent Increases

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

This week daft.ie published its latest quarterly rent report. It confirms that the Minister's rent pressure zones simply are not working. Average rents are up 13% across the State to approximately €1,131 per month. Rents in Louth are up an astonishing 18%. In Dublin city, Kilkenny and Laois, they are up 16%; in Longford, 15%; and in Donegal and Galway, 14%. In my own constituency, Dublin Mid-West, in Clondalkin and Lucan, new rents are now at €1,800 per month. That is a staggering €21,000 a year in rent. The situation outside the rent pressure zones is even worse. Thanks to the Minister's badly designed rental scheme, we now have a two-tier rental market.

My view is this is the Minister's fault. He set his face against real rent certainty last year on four separate occasions. He opposed the Focus Ireland amendment to the Planning and Development Bill that would have kept renting families in their homes and rental properties in the market. He continues to push more and more families who should be in social housing into HAP, increasing demand on the private rental sector, and he continues to drag his heels on the urgent need to regulate Airbnb properties, despite Dublin having over 6,500 short-term lets but only 1,200 rental properties.

Light-touch regulation does not work. The time has come for Government to urgently review its failing rental market strategy and to put in place measures that will give landlords and tenants the security and stability they so desperately need.

While the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne, will not be able to answer those questions today, I urge her to bring those thoughts back to the Minister, Deputy Coveney, and the Minister of State, Deputy English, and impress on them the need for serious change to give struggling renters a real break.

Deputy Brian Stanley

This week's daft.ie report highlights yet again the extreme problems in the private rental sector. It is a shark pool out there. County Laois experienced the second highest increase in rents in the past year. At 16.6% in the past 12 months, the average rent is now €769 per month.

The housing assistance payment - this has been the centrepiece of the Government's social housing policy - limit for a family of four, two adults and two children, is €610 per month and rents are €159 over the limit for HAP. In the case of south Kildare, in particular, Monasterevin, rent increases are at 13.8% and rents are on average €1,131, although the HAP limit is €835 per month. If one is in need of housing assistance, one cannot get on HAP because the limit is €300 below the level of rents. In the case of Laois, rents are €769 per month, which means they are €159 over what one is allowed in housing assistance. That is putting people under huge pressure. It is making people homeless. People who are in need of HAP cannot get it in either Laois or Monasterevin.

Workers on low pay who are not getting housing assistance are now finding themselves paying over half their wages in rent. I am coming across cases like that. Families are severely stressed. It is a situation similar to what is happening to those who are in mortgage distress. Their heads are fried with trying to meet high weekly rents. Over half their wages is going on rent alone. We have a huge problem here.

The Government's sham rent controls are not working for tenants but they are working for landlords. Will the Government ensure that the Department introduces proper, fair and sensible rent controls?

Deputy Catherine Byrne

I apologise to both Deputies on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Coveney, and I thank them for raising this important issue. There are acute pressures in the rental market. Those pressures are driven by a number of factors including rising demand as a result of the economic recovery, a lack of supply and the high costs that highly indebted landlords face in servicing their loans. Those pressures are borne out by the data published by daft.ie this week. Its report shows that rent asking prices rose nationwide by an average 13.4% in the year to March 2017. In Dublin rents increased by 13.9%, while rents outside Dublin increased by 12.7%. However, the report also shows that rent inflation has slowed over the last quarter. The rate of increase in Dublin rent prices between quarter 4 of 2016 and quarter 1 of 2017 was significantly slower than the rate of increase over the year.

The annual inflation figure of 13.9% implies an average quarterly inflation of 3.5%. However, the quarterly inflation registered in quarter 1 of 2017 was less than half of that - with south county Dublin at 0.7%, west county at 1.4%, north county at 1.6%, north city at 1.5%, city centre at 2.1% and south city at 1.4%. However, the increases are placing huge pressures on tenants, particularly those who are seeking new accommodation. There is no doubt that the problems in the rental sector are part of the very significant challenges in the housing sector. The problems caused by high rents reflect, and are reflected in, the other issues facing the housing market, namely, not enough homes for first-time buyers, increased demand for social housing and unacceptable levels of homelessness. While many factors contribute to the problems, the one factor common to all of them is the chronic lack of supply of new houses.

That is borne out by the daft.ie figures on supply which reports that there were fewer than 3,100 homes available to rent nationwide on 1 May, down from almost 4,000 just three months previously. With just over 1,000 of those in Dublin, this is the lowest figure recorded since the series began in 2006.

The best way to reduce and stabilise rents in the long term, and benefit the entire sector, is to increase supply and accelerate delivery of housing for the private and social rented sectors. Rebuilding Ireland, the Government's Action Plan on Housing and Homelessness, aims to increase and accelerate housing delivery across all tenures to help individuals and families meet their housing needs. Together with the strategy for the rental sector it sets out more than 100 actions the Government is taking through new policy, new legislation and innovative measures to achieve that aim. Supply measures include the use of publicly owned sites and the Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government is engaging actively with local authorities in rent pressure zones to use publicly owned sites to kick-start supply. By way of example in this regard, Dublin City Council has brought forward a land initiative project covering three sites, at O'Devaney Gardens, Oscar Traynor Road and St. Michael's Estate in Inchicore, with which I am familiar, and is seeking partners to deliver a mix of social, affordable and private housing.

The Department is also supporting more build-to-rent development through pathfinder sites to help ensure a more supportive regulatory approach. In February, the Minister, Deputy Coveney, launched major infrastructure works on the Cherrywood site in Dublin costing €35 million, a first step towards the delivery of more than 1,300 new build-to-rent homes, which will start later this year.

The repair and lease scheme, under which local authorities will refurbish vacant properties and lease them from their owners, was rolled out nationwide in February, to bring vacant properties back into use. That will deliver 3,500 properties by 2021 at a cost of €150 million. Funding this year will cover getting 800 dwellings back into use for families on the social housing list.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

The Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, has been in office for a year and on every single indicator his plan is failing. Homelessness for adults, children and families is up 20% and homelessness has increased every month since he has taken office. We have seen continual increases in rent and in terms of supply the snail's pace of social housing delivery and private home delivery is there for all to see, despite the fact the Minister continues to put inaccurate figures into the public domain. He is targeting just 3% of the 183,000 vacant homes, which is only approximately 1,000 homes a year for every year of the plan. It is no wonder the Minister is hiding this week. He has not been in the House for Questions on Promised Legislation. He is not here for the Topical Issue debate. I have great sympathy for the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne, who has been asked to stand here in his place. Clearly, she can only read out the statement she has been given. I am not surprised the Minister does not have the guts to come into this Chamber at any stage where he could be questioned by the Opposition this week because he knows his plan is failing and nothing in the note the Minister of State has given us today suggests otherwise.

Deputy Brian Stanley

The reply from the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne, does not give any comfort to people in Laois, Monasterevin or other parts of the country who have had sharp increases in rent. Rents in Laois have increased by 16.6%, the second highest increase in the State. In a reply to a recent parliamentary question the Minister, Deputy Coveney, said the increase has to be more than 7% in four of the previous six quarters. That is a huge increase. The Government's rent controls are clearly not working. Families are under severe stress. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, to ask the Minister, Deputy Coveney, and the Minister of State in the Department, Deputy English, to go back to the drawing board and introduce proper rent controls.

Sinn Féin introduced a proposal to link rents with the level of general inflation. That happens in other countries so why can we not do it here? We also called for an acceleration of the local authority house building programme and a reintroduction of the affordable housing scheme, which the previous Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, abolished under the previous Government.

There is a commitment on page 23 of the programme for Government to introduce a cost rental option. There is unanimous support in the House for that. The Government included the measure in the programme for Government. That is a measure Sinn Féin could support if it was done properly. That would bring immediate relief for people. I ask the Minister of State to ensure the Minister reports on progress with the scheme.

Deputy Catherine Byrne

The Deputies are correct that I am giving a statement. However, I am very much aware myself of the difficulties people face in my constituency but there have been significant changes. I can only speak for the area I represent in Dublin South-Central where a significant number of properties have been bought up by the council and a significant amount of properties and voids have been put back into the system.

In the short term, the Government's rent predictability measures limit rent increases to a maximum of 4% per annum, less than one third of the rate of rent inflation reported by daft.ie. Tenants can expect to see significantly smaller rent increases than those they have seen recently or would have faced if the measures had not been introduced. As has already been indicated, Dublin was designated as a rent pressure zone in December 2016. The daft.ie report data for Dublin indicate that the rate of rent price increases has dropped since then. However, it is still too early to say whether that is an effect of the rent predictability measure. The Minister will be better placed to make a judgment when the RTB publishes the rent index report for quarter 1 of 2017 next month.

The Minister, Deputy Coveney, has already committed to carrying out a review, in June this year, of the rent predictability provisions. At that point, the provisions will have been in place for six months and it will be possible to ascertain their effectiveness and whether any changes need to be made, for example, to the qualifying criteria or the designation process. In the meantime the Housing Agency will continue to monitor the rental market and may recommend further areas for designation as rent pressure zones. Where, following the procedures set out in the legislation, it is found that additional areas meet the criteria, they will be designated as rent pressure zones.

I have listened closely to what both Deputies said and I have made notes which I will pass on the Ministers in question. I hope there will be further information to provide to them in the coming days.

HSE Funding

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

In 1960, a small group of wheelchair users came together to form the Irish Wheelchair Association, IWA, with the aim of trying to improve the lives of people with physical disabilities in Ireland. The Irish Wheelchair Association has now grown to a network of 20,000 members, with 2,300 staff and many more volunteers. Resource and outreach services are provided to over 2,000 people in 57 locations. Some 1.17 million hours of assisted caring services are provided to 1,863 people per annum. As its website states, all IWA staff, including the CEO and senior management, are paid in compliance with Department of Health, public service and HSE guidelines in relation to salary scales and rates of pay. No additional payments are made to any member of staff.

Last Friday, I met the IWA's CEO, Ms Rosemary Keogh, and the advocacy officer, Ms Joan Carthy. In that briefing I was told that in recent weeks the HSE advised that 20% of the IWA's funding will be withheld until it signs a service level agreement. Some 20% of the funding has now been withheld for the March payments. This is significant as the CEO says that no service could sustain such a cut without an impact on services. Ultimately, it is the people with disabilities and their families who will suffer.

The Irish Wheelchair Association along with Rehab, Enable Ireland and many smaller bodies are so-called section 39 organisations. This means that under section 39 of the Health Act 2004 these voluntary providers signed up to service level agreements and receive funding to provide certain services. Those agencies, of which in 2014 there were more than 1,800, are part-funded under section 39 of the Health Act. Under section 38, the HSE may enter into an arrangement with a service provider on its behalf. Under section 39 the HSE may give assistance to a person or body to provide a service that is similar or ancillary to a service that the executive may provide.

On 3 May, in reply to a parliamentary question, the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, said that any individuals employed by these section 39 organisations are not HSE employees and, therefore, the HSE has no role in determining the salaries or other terms and conditions applying to these staff.

The Minister went on to say that section 39 staff are not subject to the provisions of public service agreements or the FEMPI legislation. It is regrettable that the Minister for Health is not here this evening, but I appreciate that the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne, is present. In his reply, the Minister for Health was clearly ignoring the earlier decisions of the HSE and his own predecessors, as the HSE imposed pay cuts on section 39 staff in 2009. The pay scales had been linked for many years. It seems the Minister wants to have one rule when cuts must be imposed and another rule when restoration is due.

Irish Wheelchair Association salaries are clearly linked to HSE pay scales and section 39 staff were, in fact, treated like public servants. It is also clear that section 39 organisations' pay scales have been linked to HSE section 38 pay scales for over 15 years. The Irish Wheelchair Association informs me that the HSE cut funding to section 39 organisations in 2009 and instructed them to impose pay cuts in order to guarantee sustainable services.

Under the Lansdowne Road agreement, however, public sector pay is finally beginning to be restored and yet the HSE has confirmed that no funding is available to section 39 organisations to meet the cost of the pay restoration measures required.

The HSE's decision creates an intolerable situation for the Irish Wheelchair Association, Rehab, Enable Ireland and the other bodies concerned. The result is that home support workers and others in the large section 39 organisations are doing exactly the same work but receive different levels of pay depending on whether they are employed by a section 38 or 39 organisation.

Equally urgent is the fact that the IWA has been unable to meet the cost of the €1.34 million needed for pay restoration under the Lansdowne Road agreement this year, nor was it able to meet the €290,000 increase last year. As such, it has said that this "impacts seriously and immediately on our ability to fulfil our responsibility under the service arrangements, as well as the standards required by statutory agencies such as HIQA". The IWA was unable to sign the service arrangement by the end of February.

The Minister, Deputy Harris, who unfortunately is not with us, told the IWA in February that he wanted a quiet and quick resolution of this matter, which is putting IWA, Rehab and Enable Ireland staff under intolerable pressure. I urge the Minister of State to ensure that the Minister gets a settlement very quickly.

Deputy Catherine Byrne

I wish to apologise for the fact the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, cannot be here. I thank Deputy Broughan for raising this important issue and will outline the current position on the situation.

The Irish Wheelchair Association is funded under section 39 of the Health Act 2004. The HSE has in place service level agreements with providers funded under section 39 of the Health Act 2004 that set out the level of service to be provided for the grant to the individual organisation and requirements in relation to standards of care.

The HSE has established a governance framework to cover funding relationships with all non-statutory agencies. It is the policy of the HSE that all funding arrangements with section 39 agencies are formalised by complying with this governance framework, which has two different components.

Part 1 is a service level arrangement that is signed every three years by both parties and sets out the legal requirements that the agency must comply with to receive funding for the provision of services. Part 2 is a set of schedules which must be completed and signed by the agency and the HSE, which sets out the detail of the service and the exact funding that the HSE is providing for the delivery of this service. This set of schedules also identifies the quality standards and best practice guidelines to be adhered to in the provision of all services, along with the process for managing complaints in relation to service provision.

The HSE has implemented a measure whereby for agencies that have not completed the necessary governance arrangement process within the required deadline of 1 March 2017, a 20% withholding of funding is applied. Every effort was made by the HSE to encourage agencies to complete this process within the timeframe, including extending the timeframe to 1 April for some agencies.

With regard to the Irish Wheelchair Association specifically, this organisation was unable to complete these governance arrangements, as I outlined. Consequently, 20% of its funding under its SLA has been withheld. To be clear, this is not a funding cut or a fine. The full funding will be returned to the agency on completion of the governance arrangement process. The HSE has advised that a refusal to complete its governance arrangements due to pay restoration issues is not acceptable to the executive.

With regard to matters relating to pay of staff in the IWA, it should be noted that the individuals employed by section 39 organisations are not HSE employees. As such, the HSE has no role in determining the salaries or other terms and conditions applying to these staff. The staff concerned are not subject to the control of the Department of Health and they are not classified as public servants.

Staff in section 39 agencies were not subject to the provisions of public service agreements or the FEMPI legislation which imposed the associated pay reductions. Accordingly, any arrangements offered by each service provider in regard to its employees' terms and conditions, including rates of pay, may vary.

The HSE acknowledges the significant savings in efficiencies service providers have made since 2008. The health service, as a whole, must operate within the parameters of funding available to it. Given the current economic environment this is a challenge for all stakeholders, including the HSE, voluntary service providers like the Irish Wheelchair Association, service users and their families.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

I thank the Minister of State for the Minister, Deputy Harris's reply, but it is totally disingenuous. It does not reflect how grossly unfair the situation is to the Irish Wheelchair Association, Rehab, Enable Ireland and the other bodies.

I note that the IWA has entered a dispute resolution process with the HSE. The SIPTU trade union has rightly referred the matter to the Workplace Relations Commission. I understand that the chief executive of the IWA, Ms Rosemary Keogh, had her first meeting with the HSE today following a letter she sent to them on 4 May. That letter indicated that as per clause 33 of the service arrangement 2015-2018, the IWA was beginning the dispute resolution process.

The IWA is a member of the Not-for-Profit Association, NFPA, which has been attempting to find a resolution to this problem since last September. On 29 March, representatives of the NFPA met with representatives of the HSE, including Mr. Pat Healy, Mr. Cathal Morgan and Ms Marion Meaney.

Clearly, over many years the HSE did instruct section 39 organisations to come in line with HSE pay scales.

They did that, as per instruction. During the crash, the Irish Wheelchair Association and other bodies were told to make the FEMPI reductions, which they did. Now the staff of section 39 organisations have been excluded, most unfairly, from the Haddington Road and Landsdowne Road national pay agreements. The SIPTU trade union has rightly sought the restoration of pay scales for these staff and to have the matter referred to the Workplace Relations Commission.

The Minister of State mentioned a three-year service agreement which the Irish Wheelchair Association has not felt able to sign. It feels that way because it simply does not have the funding, as it has to meet the additional salary costs. Approximately €5 million per annum over the duration of this service level agreement would settle and resolve this situation for the hard-working and valiant staff of the Irish Wheelchair Association, the Rehab Group and Enable Ireland. It is a small sum of money. The Minister should resolve this as soon as possible.

Deputy Catherine Byrne

I understand Deputy Broughan's frustration. I am very familiar with the work of the Irish Wheelchair Association. All organisations, no matter what Department they deal with, are governed by certain arrangements. If there has been a problem with the governance arrangements of the Irish Wheelchair Association, it has been said in the reply that the HSE is willing to talk to it and to try to resolve the matter as quickly as possible. There are rules and regulations, however. When people were not adhering to certain governance measures in the past there were problems in services right across the board. It is important that any agency providing a service should meet the governance standards.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

On a point of information, there is no governance issue here. The issue is the governance of the Department of Health, the HSE and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

Deputy Catherine Byrne

The Deputy raised a number of issues of which I have taken note. I will bring them back to Minister, but the reply clearly outlines that the HSE has no control over salaries within section 39 organisations. I will relay to the Minister the fact that SIPTU has taken up this issue as well. I will relay all the comments back to the Minister and I will ask him to communicate with the Deputy.

Irish Cattle Breeding Federation

Deputy Jackie Cahill

With all due respect to the Minister of State sitting opposite, it is disappointing that a Minister from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine is not present to answer this question on the funding shortfall the Irish Cattle Breeding Federation, ICBF, is experiencing.

The background to this situation is that the Department made the decision to allow multiple companies to tender for tags. Obviously, a number of companies applied to be able to sell tags to Irish farmers. The voluntary levy which farmers paid, and which was the main source of funding for the ICBF, was highlighted on the order forms farmers received. Between 1 October and 31 March, 50,633 farmers and herdowners ordered 2.057 million tags. Some 25,069 of those herdowners opted not to pay the levy, resulting in 1,091,238 tag sets that did not contribute the levy to the ICBF. This resulted in a shortfall in funding of €414,670 for the ICBF for that six-month period.

While the ICBF has had its critics, it has played a vital role in the development of both dairy and beef herds in this country. The advancement in the economic breeding index, EBI, of the dairy herd in particular is in no small way down to the ICBF, which was founded in 1998. In recent months it was in the spotlight with regard to EBI evaluations. Leaving that aside, it has played a huge role in the advancement of beef genetics and the genetic potential of both dairy and beef herds in this country.

Unless the shortfall to which I refer is addressed by means of some mechanism brought forward by the Department, the ICBF cannot continue to operate. While there are other minor sources of funding for the ICBF, its major source is the voluntary levy from tags. As I have mentioned, the voluntary levy came into the spotlight as a result of the Department's decision to allow multiple companies to tender to supply tags. The ICBF's role is hugely important to the progression of both our dairy and beef herds.

The issue of how the ICBF will be funded into the future needs to be addressed fairly rapidly as the vast majority of tags are ordered in the period from September to spring. If there is going to be another source of income for ICBF, the Minister needs to come forward with proposals fairly quickly, in order that the ICBF will be secure and know what funding will be available to it in the future. This shortfall in funding cannot be borne by the ICBF for any length of time. Its operations will cease very quickly. I know this has been a matter of discussion with the board of the ICBF and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, but I would be greatly appreciative if the Minister of State could tell us what the Department's action will be and how this funding issue will be resolved. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank Deputy Cahill. We are grateful to the Minister of State, Deputy Kyne, for being here. Before I call on him, I would like to say that if a Member tabling a Topical Issue debate is not happy that the appropriate Minister is unavailable, it is open to that Deputy to have the matter deferred until such a time as he or she can be present.

Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy Seán Kyne)

I apologise that the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Creed, is not here. I am taking this matter on his behalf. The ICBF was established in 1998 following a number of years of industry consultation among all stakeholders in the cattle breeding industry. ICBF is the only body approved under EU legislation, in particular Commission decision 2006/427/EC, to carry out testing, genetic evaluation and publication of breeding values for Irish dairy and beef cattle. The objective of the ICBF is to achieve the greatest possible genetic improvement in the national cattle herd for the benefit of Irish farmers and the national dairy and beef industries by collecting, collating and distributing available information of practical and scientific industry while promoting the exchange of all such information and data among breeders of cattle in Ireland.

The organisation delivers a public good in the area of cattle breed improvement, which is the foundation of a profitable and sustainable dairy and beef herd. As an advanced livestock country, Ireland has been at the forefront of utilising the latest advances in cattle breeding from around the world to ensure Irish farmers can benefit from the best genetics for their farm businesses. The organisation of the breeding industry under the umbrella of the ICBF has helped Irish artificial insemination, AI, companies maintain a competitive business and be able to provide the highest quality AI bulls to Irish dairy farmers in particular. Cattle breeding worldwide is becoming a very competitive business and a small number of global players are determined to dominate the world market. The Irish breeding sector has helped withstand these competitive pressures by organising itself under the umbrella of the ICBF.

Regarding funding since 2009, the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine has allocated a total of €6.238 million to the ICBF under an annual block grant and €8.08 million in infrastructural funds. Some €800,000 has been allocated towards operational costs for 2017 and €920,000 for infrastructural projects.

The ICBF is a farmer-led body which receives its funding from a number of sources including farmers, the breeding industry and the State. The funding model used by the ICBF for many years involved one third of income coming from farmers, one third from service organisations and one third from an annual grant from the Department. This model has served the ICBF well. The tag levy, which formerly raised approximately €900,000, has been a critical source of funding for the ICBF for many years, constituting approximately 20% of core funding. Recent policy changes and amendments to tag order forms resulted in a significant drop in levy collection and an absence of certainty for this funding stream, as has been referred to by the Deputy. It is broadly accepted by the various stakeholders in the ICBF that a contribution from all farmers is the fairest and most appropriate mechanism to support the work being done on the national breeding programme as it maintains farmer control of the benefits and generates benefit for all farmers. The Department has been working with the ICBF and tag providers with the objective of finding a solution that addresses the funding shortfalls but which maintains the pillar approach to funding. Discussions on this matter are ongoing and it is hoped they can be finalised in the near future.

Deputy Jackie Cahill

I appreciate the Minister of State being here and taking the Topical Issue during a timeframe when we need a solution before tags are ordered the next back end. I do not disagree with anything the Minister of State said in his statement but the nub of the issue is where the shortfall in funding is going to come from or what mechanism his Department will use to address it. He did not give any answers. We know the figures. There is a shortfall that will increase rather than diminish if action is not taken because roughly 50% of herd owners who ordered tags did not contribute. Human nature is such that if people see their neighbour is not contributing to a voluntary levy, more people will opt out of the scheme. We need a formula sooner rather than later to address adequately this shortfall.

None of us is arguing about the hugely important work that the ICBF does. As a dairy and beef farmer, I can see that the evaluation on the economic breeding index side of things is the envy of many other countries. That is why the funding is so critical for an organisation like this, which has been a success since its foundation in 1998. It would be hugely detrimental to our agricultural industry if because of a shortfall in funding, the ICBF's activities were to be restricted. While I agree fully with the sentiments expressed by the Minister of State about the ICBF, its functions and its achievements, when I got to the nub of the question about how the shortfall will be addressed, the Minister of State did not address that issue. I respectfully suggest that he convey to the Minister our anxiety about this shortfall and our concern that measures to address it be expedited as quickly as possible. It needs to be addressed and the Minister should make it a priority that the ICBF will be secure in knowing that this important pillar of its finances is catered for.

Deputy Seán Kyne

I acknowledge the important work done by the ICBF. The industry is very well represented on the board. It is a wide range of stakeholders in the beef and dairy sectors which demonstrates that it is an industry-led organisation. Michael Doran of the IFA is chairman while the vice chairman is Patrick Kelly of Progressive Genetics. The rest of the board consists of three IFA representatives, three from the Munster Cattle Breeding Group, two from the Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association, with which Deputy Cahill has had a long connection, two from the Irish Holstein Friesian Association, one from Dovea Genetics, one from Progressive Genetics, one from Pedigree Cattle Breeders and Mr. Bill Callanan from the Department. A Department official acts as the ICBF's company secretary.

As I stated in my answer, discussions are ongoing in an effort to come up with a solution to the funding shortfall. Department officials and ICBF personnel met with tag supply companies. A proposal was put to the tag supply companies - Mullinahone, Cormac Tagging and Datamars - that the tag price should be increased to incorporate the ICBF levy. I understand that further meetings are planned over the coming weeks. Obviously, if there is to be any increase in the tag prices, the Department would be required to explain why this is happening and the importance of it. I will certainly inform the Minister about Deputy Cahill's concerns and his belief that a resolution should be found very soon and the importance of the timeline for the majority of calf births from September to the following spring. I hope a resolution can be found very soon.