Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 22 Jun 2017

Vol. 955 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

Homeless Accommodation Provision

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this topic. I submitted it yesterday but it was not selected for debate then. In the intervening period, the use of Lynam's Hotel has ceased. However, the question remains as to how a decision was made to allow seven children and eight adults to be accommodated in essentially a construction site with faulty electricity, no running water in some parts of the building and, most seriously of all, padlocks on the fire doors. At any time this would be a disgrace, but following the Grenfell Tower disaster it is all the more shocking. For anyone looking at them, the pictures of the padlocked doors would call to mind the Stardust. I do not think we should ever forget the lesson we were taught on that occasion.

We are potentially inviting a similar tragedy by not prioritising safety and quality when accommodating families whose only choice is either to take the risk or sleep on the streets. On Wednesday, Dublin Fire Brigade shut down Lynam's Hotel but on Monday somebody in the emergency accommodation section of Dublin City Council made a decision to put those families in harm's way. When questioned, Dublin City Council said it used the building - it is not quite so much a building as it is building site - when, after 10 p.m. on Monday, there was nowhere else to put families. The housing and homelessness crisis has got so bad that council officials are knowingly putting families with young children in harm's way. Thankfully, Dublin Fire Brigade has shut down Lynam's Hotel. My information is there have been 22 other instances where it has recommended units be closed down but where families have continued to be housed in them while remedial work is being undertaken.

Another point which must be made is that while the physical conditions in Lynam's Hotel were bad enough, there were also no properly trained staff available, no support workers for parents who found themselves sleeping in dangerous buildings with their young children and no linked services such as those provided by Tusla. Lynam's Hotel is being developed as a future family hub. There is a whole other debate regarding why we are investing in hubs and not houses. An urgent review of the criteria used to assess unsuitability for use as emergency accommodation is urgently required. This must include the provision of support services to those who find themselves having to use such units.

Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (Deputy Eoghan Murphy)

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. One of the key commitments contained in Rebuilding Ireland is that, by the middle of 2017, hotels will only be used as emergency accommodation in limited circumstances. My Department, housing authorities and approved housing bodies have been working hard to deliver on this very ambitious commitment. As Deputies will be aware, statutory responsibility for the provision of homeless accommodation and related services rests with individual housing authorities, which, at present, are advancing a range of housing solutions that will accommodate homeless families. These solutions include supported family hubs, which offer families a safer and more secure living environment.

Tackling homelessness is clearly the key priority for the Government at present. It is intended that the long-term housing needs of homeless households, including those families currently accommodated in hotels, will be met through a range of housing supports, including the housing assistance payment, HAP, scheme and general social housing allocations. Significant outputs are being achieved in this regard. Housing authorities achieved over 3,000 sustainable exits from homeless accommodation into independent tenancies during 2016, a record level of delivery in a calendar year. It should be noted that it is the responsibility of the relevant local authority to comply with all legislative requirements in respect of building works, including the provision of accommodation for homeless families and individuals and related services.

Building regulations apply to a wide range of works to existing buildings, including material alterations and changes of use. A building control authority may, if it considers it reasonable, having regard to all the circumstances of the case, grant a dispensation from or a relaxation of any requirement of building regulations in respect of buildings or works which are situated in the authorities functional area. A fire certificate is required for certain works to existing buildings to which the requirements of Part B of the building regulations apply. This triggers the provisions set out in the building control amendment regulations of 2014 for certificates of compliance and an assigned certifier.

In relation to the Deputy’s specific query regarding families being accommodated in a certain hotel in Dublin, the position is that Dublin City Council has contingency beds in place, which are part of a harm-reduction measure to ensure that families do not sleep rough. The hotel, which is currently undergoing transformation, forms part of the response to meet the growing demand of families presenting late at night and who are unable to source accommodation. Ten rooms at this property have been identified as suitable to accommodate families in this emergency situation only. To enable the use of the rooms as contingency beds, Dublin City Council and an independent fire consultant put in place all necessary precautions and requirements to ensure the safety of any families placed there, including the appointment of two fire marshals who are on duty while families are there overnight. Children have not been put in harm's way.

Dublin City Council met Dublin's fire services yesterday, 21 June 2017, and will be working with them over the next few days to implement further precautions to enable the facility to continue to be utilised for contingency purposes following the completion of works on the additional precautions. The priority is always the safety and welfare of families placed in all emergency accommodation. I assure the House that when advancing accommodation for homeless families, local authorities are required to adhere to current building standards, and there are strict quality controls in place to ensure that all facilities are fully regulated with regard to fire and disabled access requirements. There are also space standards in place that have been developed with my Department. Accordingly, support spaces such as dining and play areas are designed in accordance with the number of occupants who will reside at the premises.

Returning briefly to the premises named by the Deputy, an order was not put in place to close those premises last night and, thankfully, no families had to be accommodated there last night.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

Did the Minister see the photographs of the chain on the fire doors?

I cannot imagine an independent fire consultant approving a situation where fire doors are chained. I wish to hear more about that. Dublin Fire Brigade has indicated that there are 22 other premises about which it is concerned. According to the council's building register, the completion certificate for the refurbishment works has not been filed and works are still ongoing, so the hotel is still technically and practically a construction site. We all understand that there is a serious homelessness problem but the last thing we want is for that to end up in a tragedy.

The Minister referred to the housing assistance payment. In many cases, part of the reason these people have ended up homeless is that they cannot find accommodation to rent. This case relates to Dublin City Council but that is the situation in many more locations, including my area. It is simply not possible for people to find rental accommodation. The housing assistance payment, even though a large amount is allocated for it, is still below the rents being sought, and the amount of accommodation available to rent is less than the need. Saying that a housing assistance payment is being provided to deal with the homelessness problem might well be technically true but, in practical terms, one cannot find any place to rent and if one does find a place the housing assistance payment will not cover its cost in many cases.

I referred to the other 22 premises. The Minister said nobody was accommodated in Lynam's Hotel last night. Is it still the intention to use it? Will the Minister consult Dublin City Council and the fire brigade about those premises? Can he confirm that an independent fire consultant would approve a situation where there are chains on fire doors? I do not know if the Minister saw the photograph but I did.

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

This hotel will eventually become a hub. A hub is not a permanent form of accommodation. It is just a first response to make sure we can get families who are homeless out of hotels, because they should not be in hotels. I had an opportunity to visit one of the hubs that is under construction at Mater Dei, where 50 families will be housed. It is a fantastic facility with play areas, a playground, a media room for children and homework clubs. It will have all the necessary supports for families who find themselves in these incredibly difficult situations to move on quickly from the hub to other more permanent and sustainable accommodation solutions. While they are making that transition, however, they will at least be in the hub, a new environment with all the supports required, rather than being in a hotel, which is not the appropriate place and does not have the type of certainty, even day to day, a family would need.

The hotel in question would not have been used but for the fact that a choice was faced by the local authority, not last night but previously, as to whether families that presented would have to sleep rough. This hotel was made safe so they would not have to sleep rough. It was only ten rooms at the property on one floor. It was only for an emergency situation. I do not mean the emergency situation for all families that are homeless and in hotels, but an emergency contingency. Dublin City Council and an independent consultant put in place all the necessary precautions and requirements to ensure the safety of any families placed there. That included the employment of two fire marshals who were on duty while the families were there overnight. Those precautions and measures were put in place when there were families at the premises. There were no families there last night. Dublin City Council met with Dublin fire services yesterday and will be working with them over the next few days to implement further precautions to enable the facility to continue to be utilised for contingency purposes only following the completion of works on the additional precautions.

The Deputy mentioned housing assistance payments. These are only one part of the solution. There are other parts. I should also mention the new HAP homeless payment which was implemented earlier this year. That gives even greater flexibility in terms of negotiating a sustainable rent. The HAP homeless solution is working and it is being rolled out to other parts of the country.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I can give the Minister a list of people for whom it is not working.

Garda Equipment

Deputy Billy Kelleher

I am raising an issue reported in the Irish Examiner on Saturday, 17 June, by Sean O'Riordan, an eminent journalist. The article states:

More than 80 garda detectives are to stop providing armed cover on a 24/7 basis in the Cork region amid claims they have been left vulnerable by garda management's refusal to give them proper training and equipment to tackle gangland crime or terrorist attacks.

The Garda Representative Association (GRA) has told garda management, that, from July 1, detectives will no longer provide armed cover around-the-clock, which is likely to lead to gaps in service provision at certain times of the night.

Since 2011 the GRA has been seeking the same training and equipment for Cork-based garda detectives as has been given to the Special Detective Unit in Dublin, whose members are equipped with bullet-proof shields [and firearms training]. That unit was issued with the shields so they could provide armed cover when the Emergency Response Unit (ERU) was not working in the Dublin area.

The GRA call for the same shields to be issued in Cork was sparked a few years ago by an incident in the Minane Bridge area, 25 km south of Cork City, when a uniformed garda risked his life to save three children by taking off his bullet-proof jacket and using it to shield them from a man who was shooting at him and his colleagues.

There is a need to ensure that gardaí have proper bulletproof vests and training. There is now a situation whereby, potentially, there could be no armed cover in Cork city and county. The detectives not only provide armed cover in those areas but have also attended incidents in Kerry and south Tipperary. It is very serious if our detectives are not getting the same training and equipment as their colleagues in Dublin. We have a duty to ensure that An Garda Síochána is given the resources, capabilities and training to deal with any events officers might confront, particularly where firearms are involved and where there is a threat to both gardaí and broader society. Gardaí are fighting criminal gangs and others with poor equipment and a lack of training.

The more than 80 detectives in the Cork city division have informed the management that from 1 July they will not provide 24-7 armed cover because, in their view, continuing to do so would breach the working time directive and health and safety legislation. I urge the Minister to intervene to ensure this training, proper firearms and bulletproof shields are provided. The chair and vice-chair of the joint policing committee in Cork county have also raised this. It must be addressed. I would appreciate if the Minister could give a detailed response on what he intends to do and, more importantly, what Garda management intends to do to ensure members of the force have all the resources required to protect the public.

Minister of State at the Department of Justice and Equality (Deputy David Stanton)

On behalf of the Minister, Deputy Charles Flanagan, who regrets that he cannot attend this evening, I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter.

The Government is determined that the Garda will have the resources it needs to tackle to tackle all forms of criminality in our communities. The Deputy will appreciate that it is the Garda Commissioner and her management team who are responsible for the distribution of Garda resources, including personnel, among the various Garda divisions and the Minister has no direct role in the matter. However, the Minister is informed by the Garda Commissioner that arrangements are currently in place with detective personnel to ensure the capacity and capability of An Garda Síochána to respond to an armed or critical incident in Cork city and its environs on a 24-7 basis.

Armed response units were established on a regional basis to provide an armed response capacity and capability on a regional basis and in support of and to supplement the national emergency response unit.

Members of the armed response units are highly trained and equipped with a variety of non-lethal and lethal weapons and perform high-visibility armed checkpoints and patrols throughout their respective regions. In the event of an armed incident or similar outrage, armed detective members from local district and divisional units will respond, as will the armed response units, which are based in each Garda region. Should the incident be escalated and further armed support be required, the Garda emergency response unit is also available and its members are also highly trained and specially equipped to respond to the most serious incident or terrorist threat.

In order to ensure and maintain the capability and capacity of armed support units, a competition to select, train and allocate additional personnel for the regional armed response units outside the Dublin metropolitan region has recently been commenced. In the interim, the Minister has been advised that tactical awareness training, including the provision of equipment, is ongoing in the southern region for detective Garda personnel. The Minister has been advised that discussions are ongoing with the relevant authorities for the training of the next tranche of identified personnel, which is expected to commence shortly.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

I seek assurances not only for myself but also, more importantly, for members of An Garda Síochána. If these reports are accurate and verified, we will have circumstances in which detectives will not, as stated in the newspaper report from which I quoted, be providing 24-7 armed cover in the southern division. That would be a considerable concern, primarily because it would jeopardise the safety of members of An Garda and potentially give signals to criminal elements that the force is effectively trying to fight crime with one arm tied behind its back. We simply cannot have that in any part of the country but, in the context of the southern division and the Cork city Garda division, these are issues of major concern.

In the Cork area, there will be large gatherings of people. There are armed gardaí at GAA matches now, for example. They were very evident in Thurles last week. Páirc Uí Chaoimh will be re-opening soon. Additional resources will be required to ensure there is armed cover at events there.

These issues are of concern. While I accept that the Minister of State does not have a hands-on role every day in Garda management, it is important that he relay the concerns I am raising to the Garda Commissioner and insist that members of the force outside Dublin have the same training and access to equipment, including safety vests, bulletproof vests and the proper arms, as their Dublin counterparts in order to ensure they are not vulnerable when carrying out their duties on behalf of the Irish people and the State.

Deputy David Stanton

I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter. As I said, the Government is fully committed to ensuring that An Garda Síochána has the necessary resources and training to tackle all forms of criminality in our communities. I assure Deputies that, as confirmed by the Garda Commissioner, arrangements are currently in place with detective personnel to ensure the capacity and capability of An Garda Síochána to respond to an armed or critical incident in Cork city and its environs on a 24-7 basis. Training, equipment and personnel capacity of the regional armed response units and the emergency response unit are kept under constant review with a view to ensuring their functional capacity is kept at the optimal level. On foot of that continual review, a competition to select, train and allocate additional personnel for the regional armed response unit outside the Dublin metropolitan region has recently been commenced by Garda management. In the interim, the Commissioner has advised the Minister that tactical-awareness training, including the provision of equipment, is ongoing for the southern region for detective garda personnel. Furthermore, discussions are in train with the relevant authorities for the training of the next tranche of identified personnel. It is expected that this training will commence shortly. The Deputy is quite correct that these are serious matters. I thank him for raising this issue. It is important that the arrangements be kept under constant review. The Minister is anxious to do this with the Garda Commissioner to ensure we have the required capability and capacity.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

I beg the indulgence of the House. It was remiss of me not to congratulate the Minister of State on his reappointment. In this particular case, it was certainly on merit.

Domestic Violence Refuges Provision

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

I thank the Minister of State for attending to deal with this issue. It relates to the women's refuge Amber, which is based in Kilkenny city but covers both counties Carlow and Kilkenny. As one can imagine, this is quite a large area for one refuge. It can cater for seven women and 23 children. I invite the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, to visit the refuge. It is an excellent facility and does fantastic work. It is very much respectful of women's and children's individual privacy. It has been doing fantastic work in the area in recent years. Last year, however, the refuge could not deal with 320 referrals made to it. This was due to the fact that Amber is being asked to deal with many emergency accommodation cases that arise in Carlow and Kilkenny. The service it provides and the role it plays concern domestic violence and women fleeing such violence. Everybody knows it can take an awful lot of courage and bravery to finally decide to leave certain circumstances, particularly if one has children. Where women make that decision and go to a service that says that, through no fault of its own, it cannot deal with them, the likelihood and reality are that most will return directly to the violent environment they left.

The service provided is not just accommodation. The refuge also provides counselling and supports in respect of courts and court orders. It provides great services for children, such as play therapy, which is vital. It should be allowed to do that work and concentrate solely on it. It should not be asked to take up the burden of the emergency accommodation situation in both Carlow and Kilkenny. I argue that we should have a stand-alone facility in Carlow. Realistically, if one is based in Carlow and one's children are going to school there, it is unrealistic to believe one can move to Kilkenny city and still be able to go about one's day-to-day life.

Will the Government consider having a stand-alone domestic violence facility for women and children in Carlow? It should also carry out an audit in the Carlow-Kilkenny area regarding emergency accommodation and domestic violence services and ensure adequate funding is put in place so the services can be separated. What is happening is completely unfair. Since being elected last year, I find myself time and again highlighting issues that directly and disproportionately affect women and children negatively. This is another example of that. I understand it is not the Minister of State's brief but he is very welcome to visit the facility. The staff would be happy about this. He would see at first hand the great work they do. I ask that adequate funding be put in place so emergency accommodation may be separated from domestic violence services and the services needed for the facility to be run adequately.

Deputy David Stanton

I thank Deputy Funchion for raising this issue. I welcome the opportunity to clarify the position on domestic violence services in Carlow and Kilkenny on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, who sends her apologies for not being able to be here this afternoon.

Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, has statutory responsibility for the care and protection of victims of domestic violence. In 2017, Tusla is allocating €22.1 million for the provision of services tackling domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. This represents an increase of €1.5 million over 2016. Tusla provides funding to 60 organisations in this area nationally, 20 of which provide emergency accommodation to adults and children affected by domestic violence. In discharging its statutory responsibility, Tusla supports emergency refuges in providing services for adults and children fleeing domestic violence. Tusla also provides a range of community-based supports to victims of domestic violence.

It is important to distinguish between emergency refuge services funded by Tusla and longer term provision for housing needs, which is dealt with by local housing authorities. The challenges involved in providing longer-term housing for those who find themselves homeless can impact on the length of time that families stay in emergency refuge accommodation. This can have a knock-on effect on spaces for those with acute safety needs seeking access to a refuge, as the Deputy has quite rightly pointed out. At times where domestic violence refuges cannot accommodate families, service providers help with referrals to other refuges or safe accommodation. Services also provide emotional supports and advocacy for women. Where there is an immediate or serious risk of violence, refuges work with the women concerned, and An Garda Síochána, as needed, to find safe short-term solutions.

My Government colleague, the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, has responsibility for Rebuilding Ireland, which was launched last year. It contains a commitment to provide additional emergency refuge accommodation spaces for victims of domestic violence. This is in addition to those emergency refuge spaces already supported by Tusla. In 2016, Tusla provided funding for 155 family units, comprising 147 emergency refuge family units and eight emergency non-refuge family units.

I acknowledge the vital role that Amber Kilkenny Women’s Refuge plays in its community, providing safe, short-term emergency refuge accommodation for families, child care for affected children on site, a 24-hour helpline, counselling and other supports. I understand that the refuge can cater for seven women and up to 23 children at any time. The centre also supports women through the provision of information on all aspects of domestic violence and links to other relevant agencies.

These include social and community welfare, housing authorities and legal aid.

I am concerned that the level of demand for services in the region is greater than the current available capacity, and I thank Deputy Funchion for raising this matter. Tusla is allocating funding of €493,000 to the refuge this year. Tusla is committed to ensuring that there is more equitable access to services. It is developing more evidence-based, targeted interventions for those affected by domestic violence. Tusla will work in partnership with local organisations, such as Amber Women’s Refuge, Kilkenny, in order to obtain the best possible supports for families experiencing domestic violence in Ireland.

As part of its approach to the commissioning, Tusla is currently assessing the level of need throughout the country, and is working closely with key stakeholders to develop appropriate service responses. This work will inform future decisions by Tusla with regard to priority areas for investment, including the development of services in the south east.

In conclusion, I thank Deputy Funchion for raising this important matter. It is of key importance that the needs of those who suffer domestic violence are met in the best way possible. I can assure the Deputy that my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Zappone, will continue to work on this vital issue with Tusla and with service providers around the country and in Carlow and Kilkenny as well.

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

I would like to pass along my condolences and thoughts to the Minister, Deputy Zappone. I appreciate that the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, has stepped in to take this matter. I welcome the fact that Tusla is going to conduct an audit of services. However, I raised yesterday at a Joint Committee on Children and Youth Affairs meeting that I would have some doubts about Tusla and its capabilities with all of the crises that it is dealing with at the moment.

Housing needs to be tied in with this as well. Something that I failed to say in my first contribution is that Amber has had to introduce a three-month stay. That is the first time it has had to introduce that. After three months, they are going to have to ask women to leave the refuge. That is extremely difficult on the women and children, as well as on the staff and management there, who are trying to do their best. They are already under pressure and have to deal with so many difficult situations that they end up having to turn away others. They will obviously offer other supports to people but might not be able to provide the accommodation. Now, after three months, they will potentially have to ask people to leave. Housing needs to work alongside this.

I urge the Minister to speak to the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government about this to see if there is a possibility that Tusla and the Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government can work together. It is an issue of funding for domestic violence services but also an issue of accommodation, because that is why they are in this situation in the first place. I believe it is really important that an audit is carried out in Carlow and Kilkenny on the emergency accommodation needs and the domestic violence needs in order that those two services can be clearly distinguished and that one is not taking from the other, which always seems to happen when a service directly affects women.

Deputy David Stanton

I thank the Deputy for her work and sincerity in this area. It is very important. A range of integrated supports are required in order to reduce the need for women and families to use emergency accommodation and to ensure that families disrupted by domestic violence can be supported to resume normal and safe family living beyond refuse-type accommodation within the shortest possible timeframe. It is acknowledged that there are concerns in regard to the level of refuse space in the Carlow and Kilkenny area. However, there are a range of outreach services available, including information, advice, a 24-hour helpline and counselling. These outreach services are offered in a number of locations in County Kilkenny, as the Deputy knows.

Tusla is looking at the needs across Carlow and Kilkenny with Amber involved as the main provider of refuse services for women and families across the two counties.

The recommendation of the Council of Europe is for one refuge space per 10,000 adult women. According to the Council of Europe's analytical study of the results of the fourth round of monitoring the implementation of recommendation rec (2002)5 on the protection of women against violence, published in 2014, Ireland's ratio of refuge space relative to the population is higher than the recommended rate.

I know that the Minister, Deputy Zappone, will be happy to update the Deputy and her colleagues in the area on any related matters or developments. Again, I want to thank the Deputy for raising this important matter.

Sitting suspended at 5.36 p.m. and resumed at 5.38 p.m.