Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 3 Oct 2017

Vol. 959 No. 6

Order of Business

Deputy Clare Daly

Tuesday’s business shall be No. 7, motion re adoption of the 12th report of the Committee of Selection and Appointment of Committee Chair; No. 8, motion re Citizens' Assembly (extension to end March 2018); No. 9, motion re national planning framework; No. 9a, motion re sittings and business of the Dáil in budget week; No. 21, Social Welfare, Pensions and Civil Registration Bill 2017 - Second Stage (resumed); and No. 22, Water Services Bill 2017 - Second Stage (resumed). Private Members' business shall be No. 144, motion re animal welfare, selected by Independents 4 Change.

Wednesday's business shall be No. 21, Social Welfare, Pensions and Civil Registration Bill 2017 - Second Stage (resumed); No. 22, Water Services Bill 2017 - Second Stage (resumed); No. 23, Legal Metrology (Measuring Instruments) Bill 2017 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 1, Criminal Justice (Victims of Crime) Bill 2016 - amendments from the Seanad. Private Members' business shall be Second Stage of No. 40, Vacant Houses Refurbishment Bill 2017, selected by Fianna Fáil.

Thursday’s business shall be No. 9b, motion re statement of Estimates for the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission; No. 10, motion re Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income) (Republic of Kazakhstan) Order 2017 (back from committee); No. 11, motion re Exchange of Information Relating to Tax Matters (Macao Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China) Order 2017 (back from committee); No. 12, motion re regulation for the establishment of a European travel information and authorisation system (ETIAS) (back from committee); and No. 4, National Archives (Amendment) Bill 2017 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. Second Stage of No. 41, Medical Practitioners (Amendment) Bill 2017, will be debated in the evening slot.

In relation to Tuesday’s business, it is proposed that the motions re appointment of committee chair and adoption of the Twelfth Report of the Committee of Selection, motion re Citizens' Assembly (Extension to end March 2018), motion re national planning framework and motion re sittings and business of the Dáil in budget week shall be taken without debate and any division demanded on the motion re sittings and business of the Dáil in budget week shall be taken immediately.

In relation to Wednesday’s business, it is proposed that the proceedings on Second Stage of the Vacant Housing Refurbishment Bill 2017 shall conclude within two hours.

In relation to Thursday’s business, it is proposed that:

(1) motion re statement of Estimates for the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, motion re Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income) (Republic of Kazakhstan) Order 2017, back from committee, and motion re Exchange of Information relating to Tax Matters (Macao Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China) Order 2017 shall be taken without debate;

(2) motion re regulation for a European travel information and authorisation system, ETIAS, back from committee, shall be taken immediately following the motion re Exchange of Information relating to Tax Matters (Macao Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China) Order 2017. The debate shall be brought to a conclusion after 40 minutes and shall be confined to a single round of speeches by a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons, or a member nominated in their stead, of five minutes each, and any division demanded shall be taken immediately; and

(3) the voting block shall be taken on the conclusion of proceedings on the motion re regulation for a European travel information and authorisation system, ETIAS, back from committee.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank Deputy Daly. There are three proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with today's business agreed to?

Deputy Paul Murphy

No. I understand that the Business Committee has agreed to discuss scheduling a debate on the Catalan referendum at Thursday's meeting, with the debate to be held next week. That is too late. The referendum took place on Sunday. There were quite unprecedented scenes of police repression, attempts to shut down a referendum which was taking place, the stealing of ballot boxes and so on. Up to 1,000 people were injured. This was ordered by the Rajoy government. A general strike is taking place today in protest against those measures. We should have a debate this week. It does not have to be today. It can be tomorrow morning or Thursday morning. The Government should have the opportunity to clearly condemn the violence that took place, which was ordered by the sister party of Fine Gael in Spain.

An Ceann Comhairle

A Topical Issue on that matter has been selected for later.

Deputy Paul Murphy

I do not believe that is sufficient.

Question, "That the proposal dealing with today's business be agreed to," put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with Wednesday's business agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Thursday's business agreed to? Agreed. We have 24 minutes remaining on the Order of Business and 23 Members offering.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Taoiseach will be aware of the commitment in the programme for Government to ensure that at least 9,500 Permanent Defence Forces personnel and a full strength reserve is in place. Fianna Fáil has highlighted the poor pay and conditions in the Defence Forces, and it is coming home to roost as significant numbers are leaving the Defence Forces on a regular basis. Those leaving are from across the range, from highly skilled IT personnel, traffic control and bomb disposal. There has been a severe impact on the bomb disposal unit. The force is at its lowest strength in 50 years. PDFORRA is meeting today in Cavan. It has said that 2,900 members took early retirement and approximately 1,000 of those had to pay the State a discharge purchase. I would ask how the Government proposes to fulfil its commitment in the programme for Government to ensure that there is up to 9,500 in the Permanent Defence Forces given the very poor retention rates of those who join.

The Taoiseach

The Government is very much committed to achieving a target of 9,500 personnel in our Permanent Defence Forces. In doing so, we are going to recruit 800 personnel this year, but as the Deputy points out very accurately, a large number of people leave the Defence Forces every year. Roughly 580 leave every year, and that has been the case for the past decade. Other militaries, such as that of the United Kingdom, are experiencing similar issues. It is a normal feature of military organisations to have quite a high turnover of personnel. We will recruit 800 to the Defence Forces this year. We have a particular issue around those with particular skills which are very valuable in the private sector, and with the economy recovering we are losing personnel from groups such as pilots, air traffic controllers and other skilled people to the private sector.

This afternoon, however, at the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association, PDFORRA, conference, the Minister of State with responsibility for Defence, Deputy Kehoe, will announce a series of measures relating to contracts, promotions and the working time directive aimed at further increasing the attractiveness of the Defence Forces as a career option. One example of the impact of pay restoration is that newly qualified three star privates and their naval equivalents can now expect to earn €27,000 a year, up from €21,000 a year when pay restoration began.

Deputy Gerry Adams

I want to ask about the employment (miscellaneous provisions) Bill. Two weeks ago the Taoiseach restated his commitment to ending zero-hour contracts. While I welcome that, the Government has not published the Bill which is also supposed to deal with low hour contracts, banded hours and related matters. The real issue for many workers is low hour and "if and when" contracts which are creating serious insecurity for families.

Deputy Cullinane of Sinn Féin has successfully steered the Banded Hours Contract Bill 2016 through the Dáil and through a rigorous pre-legislative scrutiny in the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. The committee produced a report and backed the Bill with amendments. Will the Taoiseach agree to support the Sinn Féin Bill and, if not, will the Government publish the employment (miscellaneous provisions) Bill as soon as possible?

Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection (Deputy Regina Doherty)

I confirm that, as stated some weeks ago when the legislative programme for this period was launched by the Chief Whip, the Government will publish the Bill before Christmas. It is being drafted currently. It will effectively ban zero-hour contracts and bring in banded contract hours. As soon as it is drafted it will be published and will go to pre-legislative scrutiny.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

There are very few Members of this House who would not be acutely aware of the real and growing concern about online gambling. It is often an invisible social menace but it is a real and damaging one. We have been promised a gambling control Bill which has passed pre-legislative scrutiny but it is not on any of the priority lists.

Will the Government advance the Bill because this is one of the most pressing social issues that needs a legislative response from this House?

Minister of State at the Department of Justice and Equality (Deputy David Stanton)

I agree with the Deputy and thank him for his question. The general scheme of the Bill was published in 2013. We carried out further research, published last February, which showed the need to update the scheme and that work continues. The Courts and Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill was before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice and Equality recently and the committee has returned it without any comment following pre-legislative scrutiny. We are doing some minor work on that to deal with gambling control. I was hoping to publish it this term but unfortunately it has not been possible to publish the general Bill. I hope we will do that next term. Meanwhile, we are considering setting up a regulator in shadow format to kick start the work that needs to be done in this area.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Could the Ombudsman legislation be used? I will talk to the Minister of State separately about that.

Deputy Paul Murphy

There is a commitment in the programme for Government to tackle child poverty by increasing community based early intervention programmes. With one hour's notice the five full-time employees in Brookfield Youth and Community Centre, which provides precisely those vital services to the local community, were told last Friday that they were being made redundant and the not-for-profit company that runs the centre was closing and that the services would be gone.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is more suited to a Topical Issue matter.

Deputy Paul Murphy

They bravely occupied the centre and the community has rallied around. Would the Government agree that the council should intervene to ensure that the jobs and services are maintained?

The Taoiseach

I will ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs to contact the Deputy.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Taoiseach made a mistake about the Killarney bypass. I hope he will brief himself on the agricultural situation because the programme for Government makes explicit commitments to supporting agriculture. This is a hardy annual: every year the slurry spreading deadline, 15 October, comes up. With so much bad weather this year, as in many other years, farmers cannot possibly empty their slurry and make best use of it. Spreading it in wet weather causes pollution. This is ridiculous. It should never have been based on a calendar month. It should be based on climatic conditions. Will the Taoiseach direct the Ministers for Agriculture, Food and the Marine and for Communications, Climate Action and Environment and maybe the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, the three who have passed this around, to see sense and allow it to be done in good weather and not in conditions that are appalling?

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

I would like to join in that request to ask that the time be extended for at least two weeks. It has been the worst year in history for spreading slurry.

All the tanks are full. Please give them a chance by extending the time by two weeks.

An Ceann Comhairle

Who is the Government expert on slurry?

Deputy Michael McGrath

The Ceann Comhairle can take his pick.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is no laughing matter.

The Taoiseach

I am not the only Member of the House getting a little mixed up today. This is a matter for the Department of Communications, Climate Action and the Environment, not the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine -----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

That is what I said.

The Taoiseach

-----but I will ask the relevant Minister to reply to the Deputy's question.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Taoiseach is passing the buck.

The Taoiseach

As I am on my feet, I want to extend to the Deputy's constituents in Ballingarry my particular compliments on a really excellent National Famine Commemoration.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I thank the Taoiseach for coming.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for being there also. It was a very appropriate location for the commemoration and I pay tribute to the people of Tipperary for putting on a very fitting occasion.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

We have moved away from slurry.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

Last June, during the course of Committee Stage of the Schools Admissions Bill, the Minister for Education and Skills indicated his intention to legislate to limit the use of religion in school admissions. Will the Minister confirm that those changes will be made by way of Report Stage amendments to the School Admissions Bill and when can we expect that Stage to be taken?

Minister for Education and Skills (Deputy Richard Bruton)

That is my hope. These issues require very careful drafting and I am consulting the Attorney General to make sure that any proposals we bring forward will be robust from a legal and constitutional point of view. I am working on that and hope I will be in a position to bring forward amendments to the Bill.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

The insurance amendment Bill is promised legislation. It is to amend the Insurance Act 1964 in order to implement the recommendations of the review of the framework for motor insurance compensation report. Will the Taoiseach say when that Bill might come before the House and when might it finally pass?

The Taoiseach

It will come before the House this term.

Deputy Robert Troy

As a previous Minister for transport the Taoiseach will be acutely aware of the importance of a second runway at Dublin airport. The runway is at capacity. Over 18 months ago, the EU issued a directive instructing that we make an independent body a competent authority to deal with noise regulations. The airport authority needs to know who this is, as do the local residents who are concerned about the construction of a second runway. We were advised 12 months ago that it would be the Irish Aviation Authority, but last week in this Chamber, a year on, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport was unable to say if it would still be the Irish Aviation Authority, if there would be a statutory instrument and if primary legislation would be needed to make this independent body a competent authority.

Can the Taoiseach confirm who will be the competent authority to deal with this EU directive and will it be done by way of Statutory Instrument or primary legislation, so that it is put on the books of the Oireachtas?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy will forgive me if I am giving him out of date information but when I checked on this matter some weeks ago, it was still the intention that the Irish Aviation Authority will be the relevant body and discussions are ongoing between the Office of the Attorney General and the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport regarding the appropriate legal mechanism. It could be a statutory instrument and primary legislation.

Deputy Willie O'Dea

On page 29 of the programme for Government there is a commitment that states, "We will overhaul the terms of the tenant purchase scheme to make it more attractive to social housing tenants", and this is listed as a year 1 action. We are now well past year 1. Will the Taoiseach say approximately when this will happen?

The Taoiseach

Unfortunately, I cannot tell the Deputy that. I will ask the Minister, Deputy Ring, to update him as soon as he can.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I am raising the important issue of the tenant purchase scheme. After it was introduced, we were delighted that it was there, but it is not fit for purpose, especially for those who are retired, unemployed, or on disability payments. Some 80% of tenants in the country are debarred from the scheme. It is crazy, inoperable and it does not help the people who we would want to be able to purchase their homes.

They have been in these houses for many years and want to purchase them, but they are debarred from doing so because of the rules and the restrictive nature of the scheme. I thank the Taoiseach for introducing it, but will he, please, alter it to make it more usable for tenants in local authority houses?

Deputy Michael Moynihan

On the same issue, Deputy Michael Healy Rae is absolutely correct. The scheme is showing up some anomalies, whereby people who have been living in those houses for many years and who, through various mechanisms, including family support provisions, are in a position to buy them are not allowed to do so. They deserve the opportunity to buy them for themselves and their families. The scheme should be looked at to accommodate those with a genuine reason to be in a position, with the provision of family support, to buy those houses.

An Ceann Comhairle

It seems to be the subject of a Topical Issue.

The Taoiseach

As I am not familiar with all of the details of the scheme, I will ask the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, to correspond with the Deputies directly. One thing we always have to bear in mind when it comes to the matter of tenant purchase is that in the past we sold off much of the social housing stock and that we are in the process of building up the stock of public or social housing again. We need to have regard to this when it comes to the matter of tenant purchase in order that we do not end up in a situation where tenants purchase what used to be public houses and then sell them on to somebody else and the net effect will be a reduction in the social housing stock. This is something we must bear in mind from a public policy point of view.

Deputy Martin Heydon

I wish to ask about the coroners (amendment) Bill in the context of clarifying the position on coroners' investigations and inquests and reporting to coroners unnatural deaths, including maternal deaths.

The Taoiseach

The Bill is expected this term.

Deputy Darragh O'Brien

Page 144 of the programme for Government contains a commitment to continue to protect and promote human rights and support the work of human rights defenders. Last month revelations by Médecins Sans Frontières, MSF, highlighted the abhorrent conditions, including torture, exploitation, rape and systematic abuse, being faced by migrants, refugees and asylum seekers in official Libyan detention centres. Earlier this month, on 7 September, MSF wrote to the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, as well as to all Heads of Government in Europe. Has the Taoiseach yet met MSF to discuss this matter? Will he instruct the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to review Ireland's participation in the EU capacity building and migration management policies in Libya? Will he bring this urgent matter to the attention of his European counterparts at the European Council?

The Taoiseach

I have not met MSF, but I have agreed to a meeting which is in the process of being scheduled. The way European Council meetings work is there is an agreed agenda with certain points; it is not a case of being able to raise anything one wants to raise. It is unlikely that it will be possible to raise the matter formally at European Council, but I will ask the Minister, Deputy Charles Flanagan, if there is anything he wants to add.

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Charles Flanagan)

I have not had an opportunity to meet the organisation mentioned by the Deputy, but I will be happy to give the matter consideration. I will undertake to communicate with the Deputy on any issue that is seen as relevant to the Department of Justice and Equality.

Deputy Tony McLoughlin

With the Taoiseach advise me on the status of the commercial rates Bill? It is a Government priority because the Bill is eagerly awaited. It is aimed at addressing some of the shocking commercial rates assessments made nationwide by the Valuation Office, particularly in my constituency, Sligo, Leitrim, Donegal and Roscommon.

The Taoiseach

The heads of the Bill were approved by the Cabinet in April and it is intended to refer them to the relevant committee for pre-legislative scrutiny this session, with a view to the Bill being drafted and going through the Houses next year.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Last November the Thirty-fifth Amendment of the Constitution (Water in Public Ownership) (No. 2) Bill 2016 was passed in the Dáil without dissent and in May considered by the Joint Committee on Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government at pre-legislative scrutiny stage. We have since been unable to progress it because the Minister responsible has not brought forward the necessary money message and because the then Minister indicated that he wanted to consult the Attorney General to consider the text of the legislation. Will the Taoiseach explain to the House why the Government is deliberately delaying the progress of the Bill through the housing committee? Will he tell us when the necessary money message and the Attorney General's advice will be progressed in order that we can do the work we have been asked to do at the housing committee?

The Taoiseach

I cannot give the Deputy a timeframe as to when the necessary advice from the Attorney General will be available. I do not believe I have been asked for a money message on this yet although I may stand to be corrected on that. That we no longer have water charges and that Irish Water is very much back on the State's balance sheet kind of removes the urgency for a referendum of the nature in question.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

It was never off it.

The Taoiseach

I do not believe there is any risk whatsoever that our water services are going to be privatised given that it is now totally back within the State system-----

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Delaying of the work of the committee-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Could we have order, please?

Deputy John Brassil

I object to the practice of certain Deputies handing up slips of paper to the Ceann Comhairle every day and getting preferential treatment over other Members in the Dáil.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy John Brassil

We are all up here trying to compete and we should all be treated fairly.

An Ceann Comhairle

Nobody is getting preferential treatment. People are called in the order in which they indicate.

Deputy John Brassil

I object to the practice of people handing up pieces of paper because the facility is not available to everybody. It is available only to those on the front row.

Deputy Fiona O'Loughlin

We all do it-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should feel free to hand up pieces of paper if he wants to.

Deputy John Brassil

On page 71 of the programme for Government, it is stated that, throughout their lives, people with disabilities should be supported in maximising their potential. In light of the decision by the health authority to refuse access to Translarna for children suffering from Duchenne muscular dystrophy, what prospect have those children of receiving the drug and increasing their ability to stay ambulant for up to ten or 15 years of their lives? It is a very serious issue. We have got some meetings with PTC Therapeutics and the families involved later today. As we speak, the avenues of communication seem to be closed off. I ask the Taoiseach to liaise with his colleague, the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, to try to get this issue back on the agenda and resolved.

The Taoiseach

I understand the HSE decided not to reimburse Translarna purchasers because of the lack of efficacy and the high cost of the medicine in question. The last I checked, the company had taken the State to court. It is not common practice for a pharmaceutical company to take the State to court but it will be a difficult case to resolve given that legal action has now started.

Deputy Margaret Murphy O'Mahony

Could I have a progress report on the Adoption (Information and Tracing) (No. 2) Bill? This Bill seeks to provide an information and tracing service for intercountry adoptees.

The Taoiseach

The first Bill is before the Seanad currently. The second Bill is still being drafted.

Deputy Fiona O'Loughlin

Page 86 of the programme for Government gives a number of commitments to investment in education, which is very badly needed. There are a number of key issues but I will focus on just two for now, the first being a commitment to reduce the pupil-teacher ratio and the other being related to an increase in the capitation grants, which is badly needed for every school considering the very many bills they have to pay. Will there be any progress on that?

I bring the Taoiseach's attention to a situation in Kildare. At least when we are talking about capitation grants, we are talking about circumstances where there is a school but, for many children approaching secondary school age, there is no school to meet the demand. It is very important that we make provision in this regard. The recent census shows that all of the statistics prove the case that exists for a new secondary school in south Kildare.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

On the pupil-teacher ratio, I know from my constituency that our class sizes are among the biggest in the country but this is a country-wide issue. No progress has yet been made on this despite its being subject to a key commitment in the confidence and supply agreement. It is very important, not just to this party but also to the country as a whole. It is also a commitment in the programme for Government. I would certainly like to hear something substantial from the Minister on it. It is the one thing in the Government's action plan on education for which there is no action plan. We would like to hear more detail on it and get something happening next week. We would like some kind of detailed progress plan that can give people some expectation as to how the Government will deal with this issue.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I thank the Deputies for raising this issue.

We are working on the programme for Government. There is a commitment in it to address the primary school pupil-teacher ratio and capitation levels.

In the previous two Septembers we increased the number of teachers in our schools by almost 5,000. We have made a very significant investment in additional teachers, including special educational needs, guidance counselling, support for the new junior cycle and middle management posts. All these areas are high priority.

I can assure the Deputies that in the forthcoming capital plan and in allocations in future years for current spending I will seek to prioritise very obvious needs in the education system after what was close to a decade during which very little investment could be made. It is a question of fitting within the budget framework each year.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

The Taoiseach will be aware of speculation regarding the European Commission's plan to offer a 70,000 tonne tariff rate quota for beef as part of the Mercosur offer to South American countries. That is extremely concerning and would be detrimental to our agriculture and the sector if it was followed through on.

What engagement has the Taoiseach had with the European Commission with regard to this? Given its importance and how crucial it is the offer not be proceeded with, will the Taoiseach, as a matter of absolute urgency, engage with the European Commission to ensure the offer is not made?

The Taoiseach

I met President Juncker in Tallinn a couple of days ago and it was one of the issues we discussed. I expressed the view of the Government, which is that we do not just export our products; we export our standards, and we would expect that the standards should be the same in the Mercosur countries as they are in Europe when it comes to animal health, animal welfare, traceability, safety and other matters. I also expressed our view that the volumes should be limited and any such offer on that scale would not be supported by Ireland.

Deputy Carol Nolan

The programme for Government commits to the introduction of changes to remove discrimination against small family farms and businesses. I understand Ministers had indicated that the fair deal scheme would be dealt with in the upcoming budget. It is my understanding that only last week the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, met the IFA regarding this issue.

Reports in the media suggest that he has committed to a three-year cap on the charges against property. When will this be introduced? Has it been approved by the Attorney General? If so, what is the timeframe involved? Many people with small businesses and family farms are struggling to meet the costs of nursing home care in order to take care of their loved ones. It is high time that we did something about this issue.

The Taoiseach

I am very aware of this issue and the financial impact it has on farm families and those who own small businesses. I share the Deputy's concern about this issue and we are very keen to resolve it. It has not yet been resolved yet. The Minister of State, Deputy Daly, is working very hard on it. We are nearing a resolution.

It does not require the approval of the Attorney General. Rather, it requires the approval of the Government which may act on the advice of the Attorney General. Such a change would also require primary legislation and an amendment to the Nursing Homes Support Scheme Act by the Oireachtas. Realistically, it will be months before the issue can be fully resolved.

Deputy Pat Deering

Just before the summer recess, the independent boundary commission issued its report. When is it intended to bring legislation forward to give effect to the recommendations in the report?

The Taoiseach

I do not have an exact date, but I know legislation is imminent and should be passed in the next couple of months in order to secure the reunification of Carlow.

An Ceann Comhairle

That concludes the Order of Business. I wish to say to Deputies Brassil and O'Loughlin that it is a matter of the most complete indifference to me how Members communicate their desire to raise questions on the question of promised legislation, whether they use notes, signal by hand or use tom-tom drums. I will call Members in the order in which they indicate. If Members have a better way of doing it, please come to my office and let me know.