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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 27 Feb 2018

Vol. 966 No. 1

Order of Business

Today's business shall be No. 5, Radiological Protection (Amendment) Bill 2018 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage and No. 29, Public Health (Alcohol) Bill 2015 [Seanad] - Second Stage (resumed). Private Members' business shall be No. 177, motion re motor insurance, selected by the Rural Independent Group.

Wednesday's business shall be No. 30, statements on Northern Ireland, to conclude within 125 minutes, if not previously concluded; No. 10, motion re Ireland's ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, to conclude within two hours, if not previously concluded; No. 5, Radiological Protection (Amendment) Bill 2018 - Second Stage, resumed, if not previously concluded; and No. 29, Public Health (Alcohol) Bill 2015 [Seanad] - Second Stage, resumed, if not previously concluded. Private Members' business shall be No. 50, Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) (Amendment) Bill 2018 - Second Stage, selected by Fianna Fáil. Thursday's business shall be No. 31, statements on Project Ireland 2040, resumed, to adjourn at 5 p.m., if not previously concluded; No. 32, statements on affordable housing, to adjourn at 5 p.m. if not previously concluded; and No. 29, Public Health (Alcohol) Bill 2015 [Seanad] - Second Stage, resumed, if not previously concluded. No. 11, report on the review of the credit union sector with specific reference to the Credit Union Advisory Committee review of implementation of the recommendations in the Commission on Credit Unions report, June 2016, from the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach shall be debated in the evening slot.

I refer to the report of the Business Committee dated 22 February 2018. In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that (1) Second Stage of the Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) (Amendment) Bill 2018 shall conclude within two hours; (2) statements on Northern Ireland shall be confined to a single round for a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons of parties and groups, or a Member nominated in their stead, which shall not exceed 15 minutes each with a five minute response from a Minister or Minister of State and all Members may share time, the statements shall conclude within 125 minutes, if not previously concluded; and (3) on the motion re Ireland's ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, in the opening round, speeches of a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons of parties and groups, or a Member nominated in their stead, shall not exceed ten minutes each. The speeches of other Members shall not exceed ten minutes each with a five minute response from a Minister or Minister of State and all Members may share time. The motion shall conclude within two hours, if not previously concluded.

In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that (1) statements on Project Ireland 2040, resumed, shall adjourn at 5 p.m., if not previously concluded; and (2) in the opening round, statements on affordable housing of a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons of parties and groups, or a Member nominated in their stead, shall not exceed ten minutes each and those of all other Members shall not exceed ten minutes each with a five minute response from a Minister or Minister of State and all Members may share time. The statements shall adjourn at 5 p.m., if not previously concluded.

There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Wednesday's business agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Thursday's business agreed to? Agreed.

My early intervention was procedural and I did not get an opportunity to make any comments. On the Order of Business, I put it to the Taoiseach that the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, has called on all older people to stock up on fuel and leave the heating on 24 hours a day during the cold spell we expect in the next few days. That is pragmatic advice. During the flooding, the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection was asked to look at exceptional payments to help with issues arising from flood damage. This is of a different scale and different type but a number of people may be vulnerable, particularly older people and other people who may be on assistance payments and who may not be in a position to have heating on 24 hours a day. I ask that the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection, through the local community welfare officers, would take a flexible approach to assisting people to fulfil the Minister of State's laudable objective in having full 24-hour cover. Also, as was said earlier, all local authority schemes need to ensure that the heating systems are changed to ensure it is on for the full 24 hours.

I accept the Deputy's criticisms. Perhaps I should have given more substance on the actions the Government is taking at this time as we prepare for the bad weather. An orange-level weather warning is in place from 3 o'clock today until 11 o'clock tomorrow for County Dublin, the counties surrounding Dublin, and Laois and Carlow. We expect accumulations of 4 cm to 6 cm by Wednesday morning.

We have already agreed to extend the fuel allowance by an additional week into April. That was decided at budget time. For older people-----

That is not good enough.

How will they pay for it this week?

Please, Deputies.

For older people, who at this time may struggle to pay fuel bills there are two options available: the exceptional needs payment, which is means-tested, and the urgent needs payment which is not.

Rubbish. That is a cop-out.

We cannot promise an open-ended payment, obviously.

What does the Taoiseach mean when he says it will not be open ended?

It would be preferable if people applied in advance. The Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection will be flexible-----

Keep in touch with the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly.

-----in dealing with payment requests from others thereafter. I should also add that an additional 104 one-night-only beds will remain open on a 24 hour basis in the Dublin region for those who are sleeping rough. An additional location has been found to provide a further 60 beds if they are needed and two Housing First outreach teams will be working on the streets to encourage rough sleepers to come in. The Defence Forces are on standby. Some 120,000 tonnes of salt are available. The Department of Education and Skills is monitoring the situation regarding school closures.

The Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, was on the airwaves today, encouraging elderly people not to skimp on their heating. He rightly said that shivering behind a single bar electric heater would be penny wise and pound foolish. However, the difficulty is that when one moves beyond the rhetoric, the Government is not prepared to stand up that advice with anything substantive. We know that in January, the Minister, Deputy Regina Doherty, committed to a review of the fuel allowance scheme. I presume that is under way. There is no point in telling people who are cold simply to run their heating 24-7 during the cold spell and not to worry about how they will pay for it. They simply will not do that. There is no point in telling them they might get reimbursed through discretionary schemes, as the Taoiseach has just suggested. The Government needs to commit to a double week of fuel allowance now.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

That should not be beyond the Government's wit. Let us face it, when the chips are down for the bankers, the big guys and the big rollers, this House can sit all night if it needs to-----

-----to ensure they are bailed out. In very cold weather, elderly people in particular and people on low incomes do not need a pep talk or a team talk from the Taoiseach, they need action.

I thank the Deputy.

With all due respect, I suggest that the Government acts with urgency and provides a double week of fuel allowance.

The Taoiseach's exhortations and words of encouragement would then actually mean something.

The fuel allowance is being paid to 338,000 households to a value of €200 million. We have already made two changes to the scheme. This year, for the first time, people can be paid a lump sum. There is a total lump sum of €607.50 which can be paid in two payments as opposed to a weekly allowance. As I mentioned, we had already taken the decision to extend the fuel season by another week through to the first week of April. Two options are available to those who have high fuel bills and may struggle to pay them in the coming days.

The first is the exceptional needs payment which is means-tested. The second is the urgent needs payment which is not means-tested and is open to everyone. No Government can offer a blank cheque to everyone-----

It is €6 million. That is not a blank cheque.

It is not a blank cheque.

It is not a blank cheque. It protects people.

However, the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection will deal with cases sensitively.

I was going to ask the Taoiseach a different question, but this one is much more urgent. What elderly people, in particular, need from the Government and this House is absolute clarity. A Minister of State saying to keep the heating on 24-7 during the crisis is clear enough but no elderly person I know who is living on a pension will take that advice unless he or she is sure he or she can pay the bill. Unlike previous generations, the elderly are very careful with their money. They will not make the decision to keep the heating on unless there is clarity. We are going to come back to crises where people will deprive themselves of essential heat unless a very clear instruction is given today to provide a payment for an additional week - that is all - for everybody in receipt of the free fuel allowance in order that there can be no doubt or ambiguity about his or her ability to afford to stay warm during this unprecedented crisis. I ask the Taoiseach not to talk about the exceptional needs payment with which we have all dealt for years. It is cumbersome and difficult. Please do not talk about a discretionary payment because it depends on the community welfare officer with whom one is dealing. We have all dealt with various community welfare officers. I ask for clarity. Will the Taoiseach simply say to people that they should keep the heating on if they need to stay warm and that the Government will provide an additional week's payment?

It is very difficult to answer questions in this House when they often include all of the answers I am not allowed to give. It is absurd when one is told the answers one can or cannot give.

What does that mean?

What is the Taoiseach not allowed to do?

Deputy Leo Varadkar is the Taoiseach.

The Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly's, advice is not that of the Government.

(Interruptions).

It is not the advice of the Government?

What is the advice?

Turn the heating off.

Is the advice to turn the heating off?

The fuel allowance is €22.50 a week. There is no way that anyone in this House or I can guarantee that turning on the heating 24/7 might not cost more than €22.50 a week. Simply doubling the fuel allowance for a particular week may not solve the problem.

It would be a good surety.

It would go some of the way.

I have outlined what is being done.

(Interruptions).

It is just a cop-out.

What state does the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, inhabit? Where is he? Is he in limbo?

Given that the Taoiseach spends so much money on spin, I wonder if he could get a few bob to learn how to answer the question. Will he, please, give us a guarantee that no old person will die or get very ill because of the cold snap? We need an answer to the question of whether he will guarantee that they will receive extra fuel allowance payments. Will there be an instruction to community welfare officers not to obfuscate, examine or fooster around with people's lives but to pay them the fuel allowance for an extra week? I ask for such a guarantee. It is welcome that everybody here is asking the Taoiseach for the same answer. We need guarantees that the most vulnerable can keep the heating on during the cold snap, including an instruction to local authorities and the voluntary housing sector to keep the heating on for tenants.

I remind the Deputy that she is still proposing to spend €12 million in holding a referendum on water that is now highly unnecessary; therefore, I will not be preached to by anyone on the left about wasting money.

The Taoiseach is spending money to protect the Apple tax from being taken back.

I think I have answered the question about the fuel allowance.

The programme for Government is explicit in defending people in their homes.

KBC Bank hired a team of former British Army members to enter forcibly the home of the Smith family at 9 a.m. yesterday in Balbriggan. The householder was physically assaulted and ejected from the house along with his family. This is the same bank that put 2,500 people on the wrong tracker mortgage rate resulting in the loss of 33 properties, including six family homes. Gardaí were present all day at the scene in Balbriggan and stood idly by but, thankfully, neighbours and friends of the family arrived late yesterday evening, at which stage the gardaí advised the mercenaries to leave, and I salute them for that. I do not want to invoke the song "Go On Home British Soldiers". Those former British soldiers should not be here to carry out such thuggery on Irish people. The Taoiseach wants to allow such actions along with allowing people to freeze to death. Such events are being carried out under our watch by KBC and other banks and more will be facilitated by banks selling mortgages to vulture funds. Retired British Army mercenaries have no business in this country. We have the Garda Síochána to enforce the law. It is outrageous. What is the Taoiseach going to do?

I am unaware of the matter to which the Deputy refers.

The Taoiseach cannot sit idly by and allow thuggery to be perpetrated by a third force, neither the Garda nor the Army. We do not need such people here. They did their deeds elsewhere and have retired on pensions. They should not be allowed come to Ireland-----

The Deputy cannot come in a second time.

The Taoiseach must answer the question.

Does the Minister for Justice and Equality have anything to say on this matter?

The Deputy has made very serious allegations. I ask him to communicate with me in writing-----

-----and I will seek a report from the Garda Síochána on the matter.

A report in last weekend's edition of The Sunday Business Post stated that the Government intends to put to the people in a plebiscite in October the question of directly elected mayors for Cork and Dublin, which I would very much welcome. Will the Taoiseach confirm the Government intends to take that approach? Will he involve the Opposition in that regard once the Government has made a decision? We need to be quick to consider the various options as set out in that news report to get the issue to the people in October and allow the people of Cork and Dublin to elect a mayor in May 2019.

Nothing has yet been brought to the Government in that regard but the Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Phelan, is preparing a memo which he intends to bring to Cabinet in the next couple of weeks. We would be happy to consult the Opposition on the matter at that point.

My question regards the commitment in the programme for Government to deliver more housing. I read with interest an article, with accompanying photograph, in the Meath Chronicle last week regarding 40 houses that are to be built in Kells by 2021. The journalists of the Meath Chronicle are extremely independent. Its editorial stated that Meath is once again on the back foot as a result of the national development plan and that such announcements are old hat and regurgitated annually. The 40 houses in Kells were first announced by Deputy Kelly in 2015 and have been reannounced almost every year since but have not even got through the planning stage. Now that Project Ireland 2040 involves spending so much the money on advertising these houses, when will my constituents in Kells see these houses built and when will our housing list be shortened?

I am glad the Deputy acknowledges the independence of the editors of our local newspapers, unlike other Members who have sought to cast aspersions on them of late.

The Government wrongly tried to influence editors. No one is casting aspersions.

I cannot-----

The Taoiseach is very testy about his-----

Please allow the Taoiseach to respond.

I will ask the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, to provide the Deputy with an up-to-date note on those houses in Kells.

The Taoiseach only cares about the ads.

However, I can say that the Government-----

Where are the houses?

They will not be built.

-----has committed to 110,000 new social homes being built over the course of the ten-year plan.

The programme for the reform of local government under the previous Minister contained an abandoned attempt to annex part of Meath and transfer it into an enlarged Drogheda, a plan which is still being pursued by some Government backbenchers. According to leaks from a report to come before Cabinet, attacks are now being opened up on a new front, whereby the acceleration of plans for a directly elected mayor of Dublin would bequeath powers over areas in counties such as Meath, Wicklow and Kildare to the holder of such office. The Taoiseach stated that he wishes to consolidate development in the city, yet everything done by the Government, including the national development plan, NDP, and this power grab over Meath and commuter counties, shows that the Government's consolidation is more akin to a conquest in the style of the Roman empire. Will the Taoiseach assure the people of Meath that he is not Caesar, Deputy John Paul Phelan is not Maximus, the march of the Taoiseach's empire will not go beyond the multiplex cinema in Blanchardstown, the Government will respect the administrative boundaries of Meath, we will not be attacked under this Trojan horse of reform and that councils will be restored to urban areas such as Navan, Newbridge and Bray?

John Paul is not here.

My empire goes well beyond the cineplex, all the way to the outskirts of Clonee village, as Deputy Cassells is aware.

The Taoiseach wants to enlarge it further.

It is a pleasure to be able to represent a constituency that borders on Meath. The Minister of State with responsibility for local government, Deputy John Paul Phelan, will bring a memo to Cabinet in the coming weeks but I have not seen it yet. Once it goes to Cabinet we will be happy to advise the Deputy as to what is in it.

We need to defend the county boundaries.

But I do not know what is in it because I have not seen it yet. I point out that at a time when people love to talk about how much money is being spent on other things that we have estimated the cost of restoring town councils at €40 million a year.

There was greater democracy before it.

In the programme for Government, it states on page 82 that the new Government will fund the expansion of youth services and support early school leavers to find employment. In a recent reply to a parliamentary question, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, said there are 1,400 youth workers in Ireland. However, there are only five youth workers in Cork South-West - in the whole of this large constituency. Towns like Bantry, Clonakilty, Dunmanway and Skibbereen do not have a single youth worker or any youth service of any description. That is a huge loss to the youth of those towns at a time when we are living with the scourge of drugs and social isolation. There is an urgent need for the establishment of a Carbery youth service to serve the ever-growing youth population of west Cork. Will the Government support the setting up of such a youth service in west Cork?

I will ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, to reply to the Deputy directly.

The latest homeless figures have just been published on the website of the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government. It is the single largest increase in homelessness since the Government took office. We now have more than 9,000 adults and children living in emergency accommodation. Adult homelessness is up by 329 on last month. Child homelessness is up by 188 and family homelessness is up by 109. We have just had a conversation about the cold spell. We are also seeing an increase in rough sleepers and there is real concern that we may see further deaths on the streets. What will the Government do on foot of those figures, that it has not been doing since taking office, finally to start to tackle the housing crisis, the homelessness crisis and in particular the child homelessness crisis? Tonight, 3,267 children will sleep in emergency accommodation because the Government's policies are failing. What will the Government do to address that?

This is time for questions on promised legislation and the programme for Government.

The Taoiseach should answer the question.

That is exactly what we asked about.

We are due to have Questions to the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, at 3.30 p.m. I understand the figures have only just been published so I have not seen them. I am told that they show an increase but the level of family homelessness, notwithstanding the increase, is still not higher than it was in November.

What is the Government going to do? Deputy Varadkar is the Taoiseach.

I cannot answer that in eight minutes.

The Taoiseach cannot answer it at all.

He could not answer it in 18 months either.

Deputies should please not interrupt.

I will send the Sinn Féin Members a copy of Rebuilding Ireland, which is our policy on the matter.

It is not working. That is the reason 9,000 people are in emergency accommodation.

Will Members please give way to Deputy Munster?

I wish to speak about the programme for Government and the Government's commitment to tackling climate change. One of the effects of climate change is the increase in weather warnings which we have seen this week. Last month I introduced the Extreme Weather (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, which provides for the safety of employees during severe weather conditions. Not only does it enhance public safety but it also ensures the safety of rescue services personnel during severe weather events. It also proposes the imposition of penalties on those who put lives in danger through reckless behaviour during severe weather events. We are legislators and we must act to guide employers to protect workers and also to increase the powers of emergency services during severe weather events. Will the Government consider the Bill given the weather warnings this week in order to afford protection and certainty to workers?

Given the protracted talk about the severe weather warning there is a need to protect elderly citizens and to keep them warm.

As a way of being helpful, I suggest the April payment be brought forward in order that everybody in receipt of the fuel allowance would receive an extra payment. The Government would not have to find extra money to bring this forward. I ask the Taoiseach to consider very seriously this suggestion which would provide a quick and short necessary solution to what is a very real problem.

I understand the Business Committee is due to meet this afternoon to discuss the ongoing weather alert and consider how the House should respond and what steps should be taken if there is a red weather warning. Before that decision is taken, I ask the Taoiseach to set aside time during Government business this evening or early tomorrow to allow the Minister to answers questions for an hour. We should be able to pose questions to the Minister to ascertain what steps are being taken to protect citizens.

The Taoiseach has given his weather forecast and said what people should do, but we need to cut to the chase with regard to what that means. Between 1,500 and 2,000 people in the State will die from weather-related incidents because they cannot afford to heat their homes properly. It happens when temperatures drop to the levels to which they are expected to drop in the coming days. All the talk about keeping the heating on and applying for exceptional needs and discretionary payments simply does not cut it. People will die unless they are kept warm in their homes in the next couple of days. I remind the Taoiseach that individuals who have been identified as vulnerable, including those over the age of 65 years, those living alone, people with disabilities and who lack mobility, will be at risk in the next number of hours unless the Government steps in to give them certainty and security that if they keep the heating on, the Government and the Department will meet the payment. It is not a blank cheque. The figure is €6 million. Can the Taoiseach not say he will protect these vulnerable individuals and do his damnedest to make sure nobody will die as a result of the cold weather spell we are about to face? I have mentioned that far too many people - between 1,500 and 2,000 - die in these circumstances every year. An extra week's fuel payment for these individuals should be announced.

I will give some consideration to Deputy John Brassil's helpful suggestion that we bring forward the extra week's payment already planned for April. I will have to discuss the matter with the Ministers for Employment Affairs and Social Protection and Public Expenditure and Reform. I suggest to Deputy Pearse Doherty that if we were to assume that leaving the heating on 24/7 would cost €22.50 - the amount of the weekly fuel allowance payment - it would send the wrong message to people. I do not think such a guarantee could be given to them. If we tell them that they can leave on the heating 24/7 and that the Government or somebody else will pick up the bill, regardless of what it is, we will send the wrong message to them.

What message is the Government sending?

I do not think I could possibly agree to that.

What is the right message?

Deputy Jonathan O'Brien asked for a debate to take place today. As I hope Deputies are aware, I do not control the House or set the times for debates in it.

I asked for time to be provided during Government business.

That is a matter for the Business Committee and has been for almost two years at this stage.

I understand Deputy Imelda Munster's Bill has been introduced but that it has not yet been taken on Second Stage. The best way for it to be taken on Second Stage would be for Sinn Féin to use its Private Members' time to prioritise it.

Today marks the fifth anniversary of the abolition of the mobility allowance by a Government, of which Fine Gael was part, which promised that an alternative scheme would be introduced. The last time I asked about the health (transport support) Bill approximately a year ago I was told it was supposed to be going through the pre-legislative scrutiny process. Will the Taoiseach update the House on the status of the Bill?

On the same matter, a number of us were informed today that the people with restricted mobility who rely on an allowance such as this might not be visited by their personal assistants during the period of the red weather alert. They have been offered respite care places in private nursing homes, but they do not want to go into them. It will cost way more to accommodate people with disabilities in private nursing homes than it would to ensure personal assistants have the ability to visit them in their homes. I ask the Minister for Health to examine whether people with disabilities who rely on personal assistants and will be restricted to their homes while the red winter alert is in force can and will be guaranteed that such assistants will visit them in the coming days, given that they have been unable to access the mobility aid grant for the past five years.

On the promised legislation, I acknowledge that the Bill in question is long overdue. I have asked the Ministers for Health and Public Expenditure and Reform to work together to allow us to get the legislation done in this calendar year in order that it can form part of the Estimates process and any new scheme will be introduced next year.

On the Deputy's other question, questions to the Taoiseach in this session is rapidly turning into questions about almost anything. I am not in a position to answer every question that is thrown at me.

Most of them are related to commitments in the programme for Government.

If they relate to promised legislation or the programme for Government, I will answer them.

Page 93 of A Programme for Partnership Government features a clear commitment to delivering a significant school capital investment programme. St. Paul's secondary school in Monasterevin is at the top of the six-year schools building list. The school has been waiting for 16 years for a new building. As the Ceann Comhairle will be well aware, the project has encountered numerous delays for a variety of reasons. The most recent of these has been caused by an issue with the new site. Last night, it was made clear at a public meeting that the delay in delivering the new school is causing problems with accommodating pupils. The local Catholic Young Men's Society, CYMS, and scouts' den are being used for some school activities. Students, parents and staff deserve better. I ask the Minister for Education and Skills to intervene to try to clear the impasse, which appears to have arisen between the solicitors in the Department and the solicitors for the site vendor, in order that the school can be delivered in 2020 in accordance with commitments given.

I attended the same public meeting last night and it was harrowing to listen to students, teachers and parents. It is shocking that the school has only two toilet cubicles for 207 boys. The number of boys is set to increase to 256 in September. Teachers do not have a staff room and must correct copies and school work in their cars. The number of students has doubled since 2006 and the new building has been on the cards for 17 years. A problem has arisen with the transfer of ownership of the site to the Department. I urge the Taoiseach and Minister for Education and Skills to ensure the necessary action is taken on behalf of the school community of Monasterevin. The school should not have to endure more months or years of delay.

I thank the Deputies for raising this issue on which I will revert to them with a full reply. My understanding is that a legal issue has arisen between the Chief State Solicitor representing the Department and the vendors of the site. However, I will find out whether we can expedite the matter. If legal issues have arisen, they may have to be worked through but perhaps we can find solutions.

Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle wishes to declare an interest in the matter the Deputies have raised.

I most definitely have an interest in it.

I was No. 7 on the list and the Ceann Comhairle called other Deputies before me. Deputy Heydon was not next on the list.

My apologies. Deputy Cahill should proceed.

I raise an issue related to the fuel allowance, which has been discussed extensively today. I refer to the delay in approving applications to the scheme. In the past week, I was contacted by a constituent who applied for a fuel allowance payment four months ago and has not yet been informed whether she is eligible for a payment. Given the extremely long winter we are having, does the Government have plans to speed up the application process for the fuel allowance?

I will ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection to issue a reply to the Deputy.

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