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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 18 Sep 2018

Vol. 972 No. 1

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

On a number of occasions since late 2017 I have raised the disgraceful treatment consistently meted out to hospices, disability organisations and mental health services by the Government, particularly its failure to restore the pay of their employees in line with that of other health service employees. The Minister for Health and the Government have been dishonest on the issue from the outset. Hospices and disability organisations are being treated as if they are second class, while their employees are being treated like second-class citizens. They implemented the FEMPI legislation in 2010 and 2013 and were deliberately excluded by the Government from pay restoration under the public service agreements of the past two years. The Government has stalled on the issue. We all know that these organisations depend significantly on voluntary donations and fundraising in the community. On average, they receive about 75% of their total annual revenue to meet operating costs from the Government and must fund the rest themselves. In particular, they have to raise almost all of their own capital. They have received no increase in funding in recent years to pay increments and meet inflation in non-pay costs. Since the early 2000s, the demand for their services has almost doubled. Hospices, in particular, are efficient and effective, have a significant impact and won the trust of the public, yet they are being treated in a very cynical, dishonest and shabby manner by the Government. It is difficult to comprehend why they were ever left out of pay restoration provided for in the Estimates and allocations, but a cynical decision was taken somewhere to brazen it out. The goalposts and the story keep changing, but, essentially, these organisations have been hung out to dry. I raised the matter with the Taoiseach in October and November 2017 and January this year, but he keeps shifting the goalposts. Fundamentally, this is not an industrial relations issue but a funding issue. It is an issue of basic fairness. Hospices and disability organisations have been short-changed. They have warned us that they will simply have to cut services if pay restoration does not happen in line with that for other health service employees. They face a funding crisis. Will the Taoiseach confirm that funding has been allocated in the Estimates for 2019 to facilitate pay restoration for the employees of hospices, disability organisations and those covered by section 39? When will the Government do the right thing in treating the employees of these organisations in a fair and just manner?

I thank the Deputy and welcome him back. I hope he had a nice summer.

I want, of course, to start by joining him in acknowledging the really valuable and important work that is done in section 39 organisations, whether it is hospices around the country, like St. Francis Hospice, which is very near to where I live, whether it is disability organisations around the country or whether it is people involved in social care. I think everyone in this House will understand and respect the important work that is carried out by these organisations and their staff.

As has been explained in the past, section 39 organisations are not part of the public sector and the staff in them are not public servants. As the Deputy pointed out, on average these organisations get 75% of their funding from the State but, as we all know, "on average" does not mean "in all cases". In some cases the funding from the Government may be as little as €10,000 or €11,000, whereas in some cases almost all of the funding may come from the public purse, and it is different in different circumstances. In almost all cases these organisations have had budget increases in recent years. There has not been a budget freeze for section 39 organisations in recent years. In fact, the money paid to section 39 organisations, taken in aggregate, or on average, as the Deputy may use the term, has increased every year in the last couple of years.

Analysis, which is not yet complete, has been done by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. It shows that the situation is very different across these different bodies. In some cases they have paid increases and made pay restoration, for example, in some hospices, whereas in others they have not. In some places they are entirely compliant with public sector pay policy and mirror almost exactly public sector pay policy and pay rates. In others they do not, and in some cases they use that flexibility to pay more or pay less, as they deem appropriate for the activities in their area.

We know from the analysis so far that some can afford to pay and some cannot. The fact there is such a difference across all of these different bodies means it is a complicated problem to solve, but it is something we want to solve. It is a matter that is now being considered by the Workplace Relations Commission. The Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, recently met SIPTU, one of the main unions involved, and the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, has met the head of ICTU to discuss this. We want to resolve it. We want to include in the Estimates for 2019 some moneys to resolve this situation but that requires coming to an agreement, and we have not yet come to an agreement on how that can be done.

It gives me no pleasure to say the Taoiseach's answer reeks of dishonesty. Let us cut the verbiage, the waffle and all the talk on the average and all the rest of it. I met the five hospices yesterday. The bottom line is the Government has not given them the money to restore pay. The reason there was strike notice this week is that one hospice did not pay. There has been no retrospection of pay. The Minister of State with responsibility for disability, Deputy Finian McGrath, should be up in arms in regard to the disability arguments. I have met St. Joseph's Foundation, Charleville. It is in debt, in crisis. Let us cut all the nonsense and the waffle. When the cuts happened, the HSE went down to the CEO of each of these organisations and said: "Cut. If you do not, we will cut your money". They are the only people in the health service who were excluded, deliberately and cynically, from the pay restoration agreement. There is no rationale for it.

I got a similar reply previously. The Taoiseach mentions St. Francis Hospice in every reply I get. That is fine, but the reality is the Taoiseach said the same thing over 12 months ago. He has been seeking information for about 15 months. The people love the hospices of this country. They will do anything for them. It is about time the Government did more than just sip a cup of coffee or tea with them and actually gave them what they are entitled to, the same as the nurses and all the other health alliance professionals working in other organisations in the health service. He and I know they should not even be section 39 organisations. They should be fully integrated into our health service. We should take lessons from them because they are the most trusted, well received and popular services in our health service across the country.

What the Deputy may call waffle and nonsense, other people would call facts. The fact is they are section 39 organisations. They are section 39 organisations in the Health Act, an Act the Deputy brought into this House. They are not publicly owned bodies. These are private organisations that receive grant funding from the Government to provide a particular public service. That is the way it works. These bodies receive-----

The Labour Court has adjudicated, as the Taoiseach knows. It has adjudicated that there is a 30-year link.

Can the Taoiseach be allowed to respond without interruption?

The Labour Court's determinations apply to the employers. In this case the employer is not the State. The way these organisations work is that they receive grant aid from the Government. They also have their own income streams. They have a decision to make as to how they should spend the money they are given. Some organisations have provided for pay restoration for staff, while others have not. Some can afford to do so and some cannot. Some receive almost all of their funding from the State, while some do not. This is not a straightforward issue, but it is one we want to resolve. We want to include some funding in the Estimates for 2019 to provide for pay restoration for staff in these organisations. However, we cannot calculate that figure until we get to the bottom of what is involved. We need all of the data from the organisations to get there and we will then need agreement with the unions to achieve it.

The summer has seen the housing and homelessness emergency go from disaster to calamity. According to the most recent homelessness figures, the number of homeless individuals now stands at nearly 10,000. The number of families accessing emergency accommodation stands at 1,778, which is 349 more than in the same month last year. Scandalously, the number of homeless children has increased again. There are now 3,867 children sleeping in emergency accommodation. Service providers have been reduced to referring families to Garda stations owing to the lack of emergency accommodation. In the course of the summer we witnessed the indignity of a family of seven sleeping in Tallaght Garda station. Rental costs have spiralled out of control; house prices remain above affordable levels and tens of thousands of homes lie vacant across the State. Naturally, people have responded and some have come out to protest against the Government's failures. The response has been a heavy-handed overreaction to the peaceful occupation of a building in my constituency which had lain empty for three years. Staff of a private security firm arrived in unmarked cars escorted by gardaí to evict a handful of peaceful protestors, which was an absolutely disproportionate response. I ask the Taoiseach to contrast that with the Government's response to the housing crisis which has been underwhelming, under-resourced and inadequate. The Government's flagship housing policy, Rebuilding Ireland, has been in place for two years, but the crisis has deepened. Instead of getting to grips with the emergency, the Government has attacked local authorities and Opposition Deputies and failed to see its own failures. Spin over substance and a refusal to accept that its policies are failing are the hallmarks of the Government's approach. We need a change of direction and a change of policy desperately. That means taking bold and urgent action. I have such an action to recommend to the Taoiseach. Sinn Féin has proposed the introduction of a temporary tax relief for renters, alongside a three-year emergency rent freeze. Existing tenants would have their rent frozen at current levels, while new tenants would have their rent pegged to the Residential Tenancies Board's average rent index. This would be a good move and a partial response to the crisis we face. Will the Taoiseach introduce such a rent freeze?

On behalf of the Government and everyone on this side of the House, I acknowledge the extent to which we share the concerns of everyone in the country and the Opposition about the impact the housing shortage and homelessness crisis are having on people across Ireland. It is something about which we all know from our constituency clinics, the increased workload and the increased numbers of housing queries coming through. We know about it from the experiences of people we meet, including, in many cases, family members and friends. In many cases, young couples who are struggling to buy their first home are paying more in rent than they would if they were able to buy and meeting mortgage repayments. However, they are unable to find the right property or even any property to choose. People are waiting for years on housing lists and have been forced into emergency accommodation.

The solution to this can only be increased supply. I should not say "only", but a large part of the solution must be increased supply, which we are now seeing. Figures from the CSO, which I believe everyone trusts - they should anyway - show that 4,500 new homes were built in the previous quarter alone, in the space of three months. Behind this number are real stories and real people: 4,500 families moving into newly built houses or apartments and in many cases freeing up 4,000 or 5,000 other properties for other people to buy or to rent. We anticipate that about 20,000 new homes will be built this year, certainly 20,000 if one includes vacant properties being brought back into use and student accommodation. That will be up from 14,500 last year, up from 9,000 the year before and up from about 5,000 the year before that. Therefore, I do not think anyone can doubt that we are on the right trajectory when it comes to providing more housing.

It is definite and a fact that supply is increasing, but it is not enough, and we acknowledge that. Our population last year increased by 65,000, and while this does not mean we need 65,000 new homes every year, it probably means we need about 30,000 or 35,000. We are not there yet but we are doing everything we possibly can to ramp up supply. If there are additional measures that will allow us to increase supply, we are happy to consider them, but tinkering around the edges with other things does not produce supply. While we will certainly consider the proposals Sinn Féin puts forward, I can see that they would cost. Certainly, any meaningful tax relief for renters would be expensive and we would be interested to see how Sinn Féin proposes to fund it. However, none of these things will increase supply. Ultimately, there will be more people competing for the same number of units, and as our population rises we will need more supply.

As for protests, all I can say is that in a democracy everyone has the right to protest, and protest is a very important part of a healthy democracy. It is very much my view, however, that when protests occur, they should be peaceful, in accordance with the law and respectful of gardaí, people who put their safety at risk to keep us and our communities safe.

Local authorities have the power to purchase vacant properties compulsorily. Many local authorities use their power to do so. If a local authority is not purchasing a particular vacant property compulsorily, it is probably not doing so for a reason.

It will not get the money from the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, to buy it.

I note that many of the protests are taking place in the central Dublin city area. Sinn Féin and left-wing councillors dominate Dublin City Council, so I assume that if Sinn Féin and left-wing-dominated councils are not compulsorily purchasing properties in Dublin city centre, they have a reason for not doing so.

The CPO process is long and arduous.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach says the Government is doing everything to increase supply. It is not. I had occasion to visit a fantastic social housing scheme in Cherry Orchard and an affordable scheme in Ballymun. I spoke to the approved housing bodies about their analysis of the current situation. They both said they cannot understand all the blockages, delays and red tape being placed in their way by Government. In fact, some of them speculated and asked me whether the Government has some big announcement or whether there is a rabbit to be pulled from the hat. The fact is, sadly, that there is not. The truth is that when one talks to these approved housing bodies, the story they tell is one of delay and prevarication.

I put to the Taoiseach the idea of a rent freeze. This is a very necessary mechanism to prevent more homelessness. We know that the bulk of people now coming into homelessness, including family homelessness, are coming from the private rental sector. The Government's approach, including its pressure zones, has not worked. We need something that is fit for purpose. I am not inviting the Government to tinker around the edges of anything. On the contrary, I am asking it to take decisive action. I put it to the Taoiseach again that the Government needs to introduce a rent freeze. I hope that what Fr. Peter McVerry described as a conflict of interest that might be on the Government's benches and on those of its colleagues in government in Fianna Fáil will not prevent it from introducing something as necessary as a three-year rent freeze.

There are plenty of landlords in Sinn Féin.

I assure the Deputy that I have no rabbits to pull out of the hat and I have no quick fixes. This is not a problem that will be solved by an announcement, by some sort of quick-fix measure or by changing one law or one piece of legislation. That is just not the case. To every complex problem there is an easy and simple solution that probably does not work. A rent freeze is probably one of those. We have rent pressure zones. They have brought some control around the extent to which rents are increasing. They cap rent increases at 4% and we know from the last two ESRI reports that rents increased by approximately 1% per quarter in those areas, so there is at least some initial evidence that they have helped to moderate the rate of increases.

Rents are increasing by 7% annually. The rent pressure zones are not working.

We have to bear in mind what a rent freeze might do. On the face of it, a rent freeze sounds like a good idea, but we should think about the unintended consequences of that kind of a measure.

Such as fewer people becoming homeless.

For example, we should think about what it would do to supply. Would more people be willing to rent out a property? Would more businesses be willing to build properties for rent-----

The Taoiseach should look at the money they are making.

-----if they were put in a situation whereby Sinn Féin decided the rent charged rather than themselves? Would people be willing to move from property to property? People who live in rent controlled cities say that if one has a rent controlled apartment, one should hang on to it and not move. That means less churn and fewer people moving. What often happens with these kinds of measures is that they work for some people, particularly those who are already in rented properties, but they make it much harder for people who are trying to rent for the first time. That is why, when it comes to policies around housing, we always need to consider the unintended consequences.

People cannot rent for the first time if there is nothing available.

What might seem like a solution on the face of it, a simple, easy answer, might actually do harm to many people.

One of the critical judgments to be made of the Taoiseach's Government is on how badly Ireland will be impacted by Brexit. It is clear that Brexit risks doing incalculable damage to our country. Everybody in this House knows it. We have discussed it in and out. Tens of thousands of jobs are at risk, as is social cohesion on both sides of the Border. For those of us who have had the opportunity to talk to both sides of the community in Northern Ireland in recent days, it is clear that they feel unrepresented and vulnerable in this entire process. Events are moving quickly. The EU is preparing a new position paper on the Irish Border question. We are told it will be a compromise on the initial paper, but which of our interests are being compromised? The backstop on the Border is now presented as the largest barrier to the UK's exit deal. Before the summer I asked the Taoiseach to resolve Ireland's Brexit concerns at the special September EU summit being hosted this week by the Austrian Chancellor. I understand that the backstop is on the agenda for the so-called working lunch of the EU 27. The backstop, however, does not represent the sum of all of Ireland's interests. The whole point of seeking a separate Ireland protocol in advance was to shield our wider interests, such as east-west trade, from the kind of brinkmanship and 11th hour negotiations we now see occurring. Regardless of the result of the EU-UK negotiations, including the potential for no deal, we need to resolve Ireland's interests before the pressure comes upon us to compromise further, which could now happen at a special meeting of EU Heads of Government as late as November next.

We need to secure a legally binding agreement on the common travel area. We need to ensure that what we enjoy now will continue to exist and will not be weakened or diluted over time. We are told by all sides that there is a political will to maintain the common travel area, but the Taoiseach knows that only exists by way of a so-called gentleman's agreement. The political environment created by a hard, messy Brexit would provide little guarantee that Irish passport holders could still work and reside in the UK, use the NHS and avail of all the other benefits they now enjoy. Brexit could disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of Irish people living in the UK. We need the EU to open up the space for a bilateral British-Irish agreement on this issue, the common travel area, which is in our interests.

This is the only concern which is historically ours and the UK's alone. It does not impinge on the wider EU. Will the Government seek the consent of our EU partners for such an agreement to be negotiated as a matter of urgency? Has the Taoiseach given consideration to setting out our understanding of the full implications of the common travel area in draft legislation here?

The Deputy can be assured that Brexit is very much at the top of the Government's agenda. We had a detailed discussion on Brexit contingency planning and Brexit planning at our Cabinet meeting this morning. As the Deputy served well and successfully in government for a period, he knows that if it was as simple as turning up at an EU summit to sort it all out, I would have done that a long time ago. What is required here is an agreement. That requires a negotiation and both parties, the EU on the one side, including Ireland, and the UK on the other, to come to an agreement.

The Salzburg Summit is an informal meeting of the EU Heads of State and Government. Accordingly, no decisions will be made at that. However, we will use the summit as an opportunity to discuss Brexit. We will meet in Article 50 format. The UK Prime Minister, Theresa May, will give a presentation. She will then leave the room while the other 27 will discuss our approach. I do not anticipate there will be any change to the EU's position or to our negotiating guidelines.

While I do not want to give a running commentary of the negotiations, as it would not be in Ireland's interests, some of what the Deputy has read in the British newspapers, particularly the British-owned newspapers, are very far off the mark when it comes to the reality of what is going on in these negotiations.

The draft withdrawal agreement provides for what we need, namely, protection of the common travel area, a transition period to allow business and others to adjust to any permanent changes in trade which may take place, guarantees on citizens' rights, particularly for people in Northern Ireland, and also the backstop. This insurance policy of the backstop, which we hope to never have to use, guarantees us that there will be no hard border on the island of Ireland. These remain our objectives and that is what we will negotiate towards.

On the common travel area, it is specifically stated in the withdrawal agreement that it will stay in place and that it will be a bilateral matter between Britain and Ireland. It will continue to allow our citizens to live, study, work, as well as access healthcare, housing, education, in each other's countries as though we are citizens of both. That arrangement has been in place for a long time. Both the UK Government and the Irish Government want that to stay in place. That forms part of the withdrawal agreement.

Time is running out or to use the phrase of Michel Barnier, "the clock is ticking". We had hoped to have the Irish issues settled, separate from the withdrawal agreement, in June. Then it was October. Now it is to be November.

The Taoiseach referred to some of the English newspapers. Bloomberg reported today that the EU will make support for Ireland's Brexit position conditional on Ireland dropping opposition to corporate tax reform. Bloomberg also quoted an alleged European Commission official saying that solidarity does not come for free.

This is the sort of brinksmanship and last-minute concern that people would have if the Irish matters are not settled well in advance of the final withdrawal agreement being negotiated at the last hour.

There is much briefing going on.

They are listening at the doors.

The Taoiseach would recognise that.

Whatever people may say about me and the Government, I can guarantee the Deputy it is not coming from Government Buildings or from the European Commission.

What does the Taoiseach make of it?

Is it the Taoiseach's alter ego on Twitter?

Not that long ago I read in one newspaper that the French President, Emmanuel Macron, was so impressed by the meeting he had with the British Prime Minister in the Riviera that he changed his position and France would suddenly do a deal with the UK. I read another story several days later saying much the same about Germany. I am forever reading this stuff. I can absolutely guarantee the Deputy that EU solidarity behind Ireland, the 27 member states supporting us as a country that is staying in the European Union, is absolutely solid.

On 3 October the National Homeless and Housing Coalition, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, housing non-governmental organisations, NGOs, such as the Peter McVerry Trust, Simon Communities and Focus Ireland and housing activist groups such as Take Back the City and many others are calling for a major national demonstration at Leinster House to demand emergency measures to deal with the spiralling housing crisis. The protests follow the magnificent protests of mostly young people in the Take Back the City movement who have occupied scandalously empty residential properties that could be used for housing to highlight the obscenity of people suffering from homelessness. Let us be clear: they are not protests for the sake of protesting, rather they are driven by intense frustration at the Government's continued policy of relying on speculators, vulture funds and corporate landlords to resolve a housing crisis that the very same people created in the first place, a failed policy that continues with the Land Development Agency initiative, the continued sale by the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, of public land, including the former Player Wills factory site, and scandalously section 110 tax reliefs whereby billions of euro are going into the pockets of vulture funds, the local infrastructure housing action fund, LIHAF, and Home Building Finance Ireland, HBFI, whereby we are financing private developers to build, in some cases, on public land, run away with the profits and charge astronomical rents and property prices, while all the while obscene profits are being made as the housing crisis gets steadily worse and the human misery it causes continues.

The protestors are demanding a change in policy. They are saying: stop selling public land to vulture funds and speculators, start an emergency programme to build public and affordable housing on public land, introduce rent controls, adopt robust and aggressive measures to go after empty residential properties where there is no justification for a property lying empty when it could be used to house those who need housing, stop evictions into homelessness - nobody should be evicted into homeless - and establish a constitutional right to secure affordable housing.

Does the Taoiseach think that rather than seeing paramilitary policing methods, with men in balaclavas, used against peaceful housing protesters - young protesters, in the main - some of whom were hospitalised such was the aggression used against them during the protests, and recognising that his policies have failed to address the deepening housing crisis, he might listen to the demands of the protesters? While he is at it, will he repudiate the unbelievable suggestion made by the Minister for Justice and Equality that gardaí should no longer be recorded in the conduct of their duties when it would amount to censorship of the press and the public in the context of their right to oversight of the heavy-handed policing tactics we saw used on North Frederick Street?

Protests will not build houses-----

-----but the Government will. The private sector will also build houses.

Not quickly enough.

Ultimately, that will be the solution to the problem. As I said earlier, protests are part of a healthy democracy and welcome. However, they should be peaceful and occur in accordance with the law. I hope the Deputy will use the opportunity presented by his supplementary question to echo that sentiment-----

It goes both ways.

-----that protests should be peaceful, that there should be no violence and that protests should take place in accordance with the law. There are no Government proposals to restrict people in taking photographs or making videos. That would be a restriction of free speech and not something I would support.

The Taoiseach should tell the Minister that.

I reassure people - press photographers, individual citizens and protestors - that there are no Government proposals whatsoever to do so. I also hope that in his supplementary question Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett will affirm his view that peaceful protest is the type of protest we should have and that protests should happen in accordance with the law and that he will take the opportunity to condemn any abuse of gardaí-----

-----including racist abuse and name calling.

I hope Deputy Boyd Barrett will take this opportunity to condemn anyone who seeks to identify and intimidate online the members of the Garda Síochána. That is not the kind of behaviour that should happen in a decent society or a healthy democracy. Gardaí are people who put their safety on the line to defend our democracy, to protect our freedoms, to keep us safe and to police our communities. They deserve our support. I hope that Deputy Boyd Barrett would use the opportunity of his supplementary question to reaffirm his commitment to ensuring that protests are peaceful, that they happen in accordance with the law, and that gardaí are not subject to verbal or physical abuse in any way whatsoever.

I condemn, unreservedly, any threat or use of violence against anybody by anybody, be it against gardaí or against protesters. Will the Taoiseach condemn the use of actual violence - not threatened violence - against wholly peaceful protesters? Some of the protesters were hospitalised with concussion, cuts and bruises or had to get stitches as a result of the violence of hooded gardaí and the private security people who used excessive violence against peaceful protesters.

Yes, the Government should build public housing, as the Taoiseach has said, but last night I looked at his Departments' figures to refresh myself. They show that between 2011 and 2018 the Taoiseach's governments built 2,827 council houses while in the same period the housing list has gone from 96,000 families to 136,000 families when one includes transfer lists-----

Those figures are incorrect.

-----of HAP and RAS, which, I put to the Minister, is massaging the figures.

The Deputy is changing the definitions.

The number of people in emergency accommodation has quadrupled. We have the shocking obscenity of children and families in growing numbers in emergency accommodation.

The Deputy is over time.

That policy has failed, and unless the Taoiseach addresses it and stops with policies that continue to hand over billions of euro in tax breaks to private speculators and landlords for land, property and cash, as the Government is proposing to do again with the Land Development Agency-----

The Deputy is well over his time, please.

-----it will never solve this crisis and it will continue to get worse.

Will the Taoiseach conclude, please?

Absolutely. As I said earlier, with regard to the occupation of vacant properties, the city and county councils have the powers to use a compulsory purchase order, CPO, on properties. Many councils are doing that and if they are not using a CPO on a particular property, then I assume the council has a reason. Many of the properties being occupied are in the Dublin City Council area. This council is dominated by Sinn Féin and left-wing councillors. The Deputy should ask them to give an explanation as to why these CPOs are not being sought for these properties.

With regard to building social housing, this is exactly what the Government is doing. We have set aside funding to increase Ireland's public housing stock by 110,000 units over the next ten years and by 50,000 in the next five years. Last year we increased the social housing stock by 7,000. That includes direct builds and approved housing bodies such as the Iveagh Trust, which has provided social housing in Ireland for a very long time. It also includes councils buying properties from developers. It is all social housing that belongs to the councils. People are given secure tenancies. There were 7,000 last year and there will be more again this year. We will ramp it up to 10,000 per year and we will provide an additional 110,000 social housing units over the next ten years. That is our guarantee and we are making it happen.

It would be helpful if Sinn Féin and left-wing councillors did not vote down social housing in Dublin City Council and in South Dublin County Council.

It is Fine Gael councillors-----

Deputies have their reasons-----

Can we have some order, please?

If Deputies were as concerned-----

The Taoiseach is telling lies.

Please, let the Taoiseach respond.

If Deputies were as concerned-----

(Interruptions).

If Deputies are as concerned about these issues as they make out, and if they really want emergency measures, then they must tell their own councillors not to vote against any social housing under any circumstances.

This dishonesty is incredible.

That is a bit rich coming from Deputy Ó Broin's party.

(Interruptions).

We need some order, please. We shall proceed to the Order of Business.

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