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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 29 Jan 2019

Vol. 978 No. 5

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

VAT Rate Increases

The increase on VAT on food supplements to 23% is shocking for huge numbers of people who need and rely on food supplements and vitamins. To put it simply, the Government needs to abandon this misguided plan. I will give the Minister of State a very simple example. Tony is a cancer patient and a constituent of mine. He is a pensioner with a medical card. He spends all of his small income on keeping his house warm and feeding himself. His medication is covered by his medical card, but food supplements and vitamins recommended by his doctor for his health are not included under that scheme. He has had radical surgery and to keep his body functioning, he needs a range of vitamins and food supplements because his body cannot absorb certain vitamins. Currently, these cost him €70 a month. He cannot afford that. If the new VAT level is imposed, that will go up to €86. That will mean he will not be able to afford them at all. Does the Minister of State think it is acceptable that somebody who is ill and is suffering from cancer, whose doctor has recommended these vitamins and food supplements as absolutely essential keep his body functioning, should have to pay at all, or see any increases in what he pays?

He should abandon this, and these products should be covered by the medical card.

It seems incongruous that the Minister of State is proposing to put 23% on all vitamins, minerals, fish oils and food supplements. This move will have a profound effect on those who take vitamins as part of a health programme. It will also disproportionately affect older people. It will also have a profound effect on the many health food shops which will struggle to open because of this proposed hike. A number of people who take supplements and vitamins as part of their health regime contacted our office over the weekend. They stated that if this proposed VAT hike is implemented they will not be able to sustain their need for supplements and vitamins on their income. That is not their fault. The condition has chosen them, but that measure will disproportionately affect them.

I understand the Minister of State has discretion as to whether to implement this hike. There is major public opinion on this issue to the effect that if he implements this, it would be akin to putting VAT on children's shoes in the 1980s, and we saw how that ended up in terms of a Fine Gael Government. He should have a serious rethink about it. There is precedent. In 2014, there was a proposal to put VAT on herbal tea and the Minister at the time abandoned it. The Minister can do the same.

The standard rate of VAT applies to food supplements. However, there is a Revenue concession which allows a zero rate to be applied to certain types of food supplements such as vitamins, minerals and fish oils. The practice of zero rating vitamins, minerals and fish oil food supplements has been applied since the introduction of VAT in November 1972 when the marketplace for food supplements was small and the concession meant that vitamins, minerals and fish oil supplements were treated the same as food for VAT purposes.

Since the 1970s, there has been significant growth in the number and complexity of food supplement products on the market, most of which are not covered by the zero rate concession such as supplements containing botanicals and bioactive substances. While these new products apply at the standard rate of VAT, the growing variety of products on the market led to diverging views between Revenue and the industry over which food supplement should be at the zero rate versus the 23%.

Revenue issued ebriefs in 2011 and 2013 in an effort to clarify that only basic vitamins, minerals and fish oil would qualify for the zero rate but disagreement on the applicable VAT rate and queries on specific products continued.

The operation of the current concession has become problematic because of the efforts by some in the industry to exploit the concession to extend the zero rating beyond the scope permitted by Revenue. Some businesses have challenged Revenue guidance and Revenue decisions on the VAT rating of products, giving rise to concerns about compliance within the industry and unfair competition between compliant and non-compliant businesses.

The issue was raised during the debates on the recent Finance Bill. Deputies and Senators looked for clarity for industry on the VAT treatment of food supplements and sought the retention of the zero rate for certain categories of food supplements.

On Committee Stage, the Minister agreed that he would ask his officials to address the matter in the context of the next Tax Strategy Group and stated that he would not interfere in any decision made by Revenue on the matter in the interim.

Revenue published new guidance on 27 December concerning the rate of VAT that applies to food supplements, announcing its intention to apply the 23% VAT rate to most food supplements with effect from 1 March 2019.

It should be noted that human oral medicines, including certain folic acid and other vitamin and mineral products licensed by the Health Products Regulatory Association, will continue to apply at the zero rate of VAT. It is possible to retain these products at the zero rate because they qualify as oral medicines, which are charged to VAT at the zero rate in Ireland under an historical derogation to EU VAT law.

Infant foods will also continue to be zero rated.

I understand the concerns of industry in regard to this matter. That is why, independent of Revenue's decisions on interpretation, the Minister agreed to put in place a process that will conclude in the 2019 Tax Strategy Group paper to examine some of the policy choices around the VAT treatment of food supplements.

We have heard the script. Will the Minister of State get off the script for a minute? I asked him a question about Tony, who is suffering from cancer. Currently, he is paying €32.95 a month for a probiotic; €10 for thiamin; €10 for magnesium; and €20 for Vivioptal. Recommended by his doctor, he needs these products for his health and he is paying €70 a month for them. He should not be paying that at all. If this VAT change goes ahead, he will be paying €86. He cannot afford that.

What is the Minister of State's answer to that? Does he believe Tony, who is ill, or other vulnerable elderly and sick people who need these products to maintain their health, should be paying for them? I believe they should be covered by the medical card. Does he think it is in any way acceptable that the price of those products will increase and make them unaffordable? These are products doctors are recommending in many cases for the maintenance of people's health.

This goes against what the Minister of State's Government is trying to do about promoting good health. Currently, if I buy fast food, the VAT on the fast food is 13.5%. However, if I want to buy a bottle of cod liver oil after 1 March, if the Minister of State gets his way there will be 23% VAT on it. That does not make sense.

The Minister can gauge opinion in this House, but sometimes it is a bubble. However, a petition on this matter online has been signed by 25,000 people. It is asking that a stop be put on the proposed VAT hike. I am sure that figure will grow over time.

The Minister has four weeks to think about it. He can use his discretion - it has been done before - because this measure does not make any sense. It will have a disproportionate effect on millions of people who use vitamins. I ask him to take guidance from our comments and review this decision.

I want to clarify that the Minister for Finance stated on Committee Stage, and Deputy Barrett was present, that he would not interfere with the Revenue Commissioners. They are independent of the Department of Finance, and the Deputy knows that well. The Revenue has decided to bring clarity to the matter. What the Minister committed to doing, which was more than fair and reasonable, was to have a proper analysis done by the Tax Strategy Group in respect of the zero rating or the rating of VAT at 23%. That is what he said he would do and, having sat down and gone through the analysis with the officials, that is what we will do. That was agreed at the time of the last budget. The Deputy was in the committee meeting and if he chose to accept the Minister's word at that stage, he should accept it here and now.

The Deputy should have called a vote on it, if he wanted to, but I do not believe he did at that stage. I will not comment on an individual case on the floor of the Dáil as I do not believe it is appropriate. However, from my perspective and the perspective of the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, the food and supplements sector will get a fair hearing from the Department of Finance. When the proposal comes to the floor of this Chamber, it will be a matter for this Chamber to decide what to do in the next budget. The Deputy will have his opportunity to comment at that stage.

We are asking the Minister to think about the health and well-being of people.

The Revenue Commissioners are independent of this Chamber and of the Department of Finance, as the Deputy knows well.

Industrial Relations

We are 14 hours precisely from the placing of pickets on hospitals across the country as part of the nurses' strike. The fact that strike is happening is an indication of the crises that exist in the health service, of which the nurses are at the front line, and a scenario whereby their wages are inadequate.

They endure pay inequality and they cannot survive considering the cost of living increases, particular in respect of housing. That strike looks as if it will go ahead.

It is also only one week since we had a day-long strike of 500 paramedics in the National Ambulance Service, NAS. I was on the picket line last Tuesday with those workers, as were many of my colleagues. I can report back to the Government that the strike had great public support. A lot of people were beeping indicating their support for the strike. I can report back that the paramedics who are organised in SIPTU refused to cross the picket line and the strike was incredibly successful. If the Government does not know, I can tell it that the paramedics gave reports of the kind of difficult working conditions that they face. They are also underpaid and they are at the very front line of an under-resourced health service and dealing with people at the first point of contact in difficult circumstances. They have very difficult jobs.

Some 98% of them voted for strike action in this instance for a simple reason. They are part of the National Ambulance Service Representative Association, NASRA, which is a branch of the Psychiatric Nurses Association, PNA. The HSE refuses to engage with the union of those 500 workers, who make up a significant proportion of ambulance workers. It refuses to engage with the union of choice of these workers. It is outrageous that a public sector employer would refuse to engage and it gives a green light to private sector employers to engage in the sort of union busting we have seen.

At the end of the week an announcement will be made by NASRA, which is a branch of the PNA, on the future days of action it will be taking and that will include a two-day continuous strike. Without the Government wishing to give itself more grief on the question of the health service, this dispute could be ended simply and without costing anyone a penny, except for the paramedics and ambulance drivers themselves because then they could properly pay their union dues.

The HSE deducted union dues from members of NASRA for seven years. NASRA has between 500 and 600 members out of a total of 1,300 paramedics. Approximately 50% of the membership of the paramedic services and the NAS are members of NASRA and, for seven years, the HSE formally recognised them by deducting their fees and then last year it stopped taking deductions at source from any new members who joined NASRA. The Minister of State knows exactly what I am referring to, being a long in the tooth trade unionist like myself. Then in August it ceased all NASRA deductions. The HSE has provoked and manipulated the situation and it has goaded these workers into a dispute because it is refusing to deal with them. The HSE suspended four of its members in Cork last week who refused to work for a continuous 20 hours because they said it would have been contrary to their health and safety. Those members have since been reinstated.

I put it to the Minister of State as somebody who has fought for trade union rights for as long as he has, that it is not his decision, the Minister's, the HSE's or my decision who represents the paramedics, which union they join and when they walk into a meeting, and who they take with them to act on their behalf as members of a trade union. It is their decision and their right. In a liberal Government that talks a lot about choice and moving forward and all the rest of it, the very least it could do is give these workers a right to be recognised and join the trade union of their choice, not the Minister of State's choice nor mine. All that the Minister and the HSE are doing is causing more havoc in the health service by refusing them that right.

I am taking this debate on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Harris. I thank the Deputies for raising this important issue. Industrial action was taken on Tuesday, 22 January, between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m. by NASRA, a branch of the PNA.

The PNA held a meeting of its executive on Friday last, 25 January, to determine its course of action. Media reports are stating that NASRA members intend to go on two more strikes on consecutive days, the dates of which are yet to be announced. I understand that the NAS has yet to receive formal notification of these strikes.

NASRA represents approximately 350 front-line ambulance personnel out of a total NAS workforce of 1,800.

Not true. It has at least 500 members.

They are mostly based in Cork, the south east and Tullamore.

NASRA advised that its members would not provide inter-hospital transport and patient transport in the intermediate care service for the duration of the action. The HSE was advised that full emergency cover would be provided during the action. This meant that all emergency calls would be responded to. In addition, the NAS put robust contingency arrangements in place to provide additional emergency cover. The Defence Forces were also on standby, if required. The intention was to minimise any disruption and to ensure that patient safety was not compromised. The service responded to more than 600 calls by 5 p.m. These included a number of hospital transfers, more than 70 intermediate care calls and two helicopter call-outs. There were 12 calls involving Army personnel. The situation was closely monitored by NAS management until 8 p.m. The service confirmed that there was no negative impact on its ability to provide patient care and service delivery. This was due to the implementation of its contingency plan.

The PNA states that its industrial action is in connection with the following: a dispute over the automated deduction of union subscriptions from member's pay - the HSE is refusing to facilitate payroll deductions at source of union subscriptions to NASRA, as it does not recognise NASRA; and refusal by the HSE to engage in negotiations with the PNA or to recognise the PNA as union representatives when representing its ambulance personnel members.

It is important to again state the factual position on this dispute. NASRA, which is affiliated with the PNA, is not recognised by the HSE and, therefore, does not have negotiating rights. The PNA also does not have negotiating rights on behalf of ambulance personnel. The legal position is clear. The HSE and the NAS have no obligation to recognise NASRA or the PNA for ambulance personnel. The PNA, which is a non-Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, affiliated union, has negotiating rights for nurses working in the psychiatry and intellectual disability sectors. The main union recognised by the HSE for ambulance front-line grades is SIPTU. Fórsa and UNITE also represent ambulance grades. The HSE deducts subscriptions at source for ambulance staff who are members of SIPTU, Fórsa and UNITE. This is consistent with the fact that these are the unions recognised as representing ambulance grades. The HSE does not carry out deductions for subscriptions to NASRA, as it is not recognised. Facilitating deductions at source is not a legal right, rather it is a concession granted to recognised unions. As far as the Government is concerned, there are sufficient unions available to ambulance staff and it does not intend to recognise this group. Of course, individuals have a right to membership of any trade union. However, they do not have a right that such membership is facilitated or recognised by their employer.

That is a scandalous answer from the Minister of State on behalf of the Government. He said: "As far as the Government is concerned, there are sufficient unions already available to ambulance staff." As my colleague, Deputy Bríd Smith said, we do not care what the Government thinks about which unions workers should be in. The workers decided that their membership of SIPTU was not sufficient and they set up NASRA. That is their right. It is not 350 but 500 of them who are in NASRA and it is outrageous that a public sector employer would not negotiate or deal with the union of choice of its workers. It is absolutely scandalous and what message does it send to employers such as Lloyds Bank, Tesco, etc.? It sends a message that the Government will actively encourage the kind of union busting, derecognition tactics that are ongoing. It is scandalous and anyone who would call him or herself a trade unionist and would participate in a Government that would stand over such a line is making a big mistake. The HSE is making a big mistake. It is opening up and it will be faced with two different fronts where it is taking on the nurses on the one hand while, on the other, NASRA would be absolutely correct to take further action.

The Minister of State's response is full of holes and spin. Ministers spend much time on spin. More than 500 members of NASRA are in the paramedic and ambulance service. That figure obviously relates to what the HSE gave the Minister because it refused to take new members in the last year. However, new members have been joining because they are not happy with their current representation. The fact that the number involved is only 350 odd has nothing to do with the discussion. UNITE, which is recognised, represents 100 paramedics nationally. That point has nothing to do with the discussion. The spin the Minister of State is putting on the matter is quite outrageous.

I was really shocked by the Minister of State's comment to the effect that "As far as the Government is concerned, there are sufficient unions [already] available ... and it does not intend to recognise this group." I understood that, according to earlier discourse and according to what the union has told us, it was a decision of the HSE. Now we have it in black and white that it is the Government that is blocking the recognition of these workers. As the strike escalates, and it will, let this be on the Minister for Health's head, just as the proposed strike action by nurses and the scandal relating to the national children's hospital are on his head. This Government is outrageous when it comes to health.

It is very disappointing that the PNA has decided to take industrial action. While our ambulance service plays a key role in providing emergency medical cover, it is also fundamental to the provision of inter-hospital transport and patient transport in the intermediate care service.

It is important to reiterate the position in respect of this dispute. NASRA, which is affiliated with the PNA as a group, is not recognised by the HSE and, therefore, does not have negotiating rights. Also, the PNA does not have negotiating rights in respect of ambulance personnel. The legal position is very clear. The HSE and the national ambulance service have no obligation to recognise NASRA or PNA in the context of ambulance personnel. The National Ambulance Service is committed to maintaining positive industrial relations with all staff and is fully satisfied that personnel are adequately represented through the agreed and recognised industrial relations process that exists within the health sector.

I will of course raise the points the Deputies made with the Minister.

The Government will not recognise this group. That is a statement from the Government, not the HSE, and the Minister will be held to it.

Hospital Accommodation Provision

Cá bhfuil an tAire?

Níl sé anseo faoi láthair ach tá an tAire Stáit anseo.

There is annoyance, frustration and growing anger at the delay in the completion and opening of the 40-bed modular unit at South Tipperary General Hospital. The Minister promised that it would be opened in June 2018 but the date was pushed back to September, then December, then March and finally July. The Save Our Acute Hospitals Services Committee and Oireachtas Members met hospital management and HSE officials last Friday week. While I am satisfied that the construction of the unit will be completed later this year, we were given information that has given rise to serious concerns to the effect that the HSE is not committed to the opening of the unit when it is ready. We were advised that no funding allocation has been made for staffing despite business cases - at a total cost of €7 million - being last June. Furthermore, equipment costing €1.4 million is required and only €250,000 in funding has been allocated. We need specific answers and specific commitments from the Minister of State that funding for staffing and equipment will be made available immediately.

The modular unit that is being provided for South Tipperary General Hospital will be finished by July. It is being provided to ease the pressure until such time as proper capital investment is made in order to provide proper and permanent structures at the facility. The hospital in Clonmel and University Hospital Limerick are regularly listed as having the highest number of patients on trolleys on any given day that the numbers are reported. This means that the hospitals serving Tipperary are the most crowded in the country. This cannot be tolerated much longer by the people of our county. When the modular unit is ready in July, it must be staffed and made operational immediately.

The overcrowding at South Tipperary General Hospital does not exist in a vacuum. Unfortunately, there are many other health service issues in our county which are making the situation worse for the public and for the staff. We have no acute mental health beds in the county despite promises of action. We have little or no step-down beds which is causing bed blocking in the acute system. The ongoing shortage of occupational therapists in our county is holding up the provision of home help hours.

I am disgusted that the Minister is not here. He visited this hospital. I brought the issue of the modular unit raised by the consultants in Clonmel hospital to the attention of the Taoiseach during the programme for Government talks in early 2016. Deputy Lowry announced that the unit would be open in the winter of 2016, then in the winter of 2017 and then in the winter of 2018. We are promised it will be open this year but I do not believe it. The modular unit to be brought to Clonmel seems to be abandoned. It would be something if we could get it built, which I hope we do, but no money has been allocated to staff it. We are not allowed to recruit staff for it. It is worst to have more space but fewer staff. Nobody can accept that. This is a serious matter. Funding of €1.4 million for equipment is required but only a few hundred thousand has been allocated.

The fiasco of the national children's hospital - I railed against the proposed location here but none of the parties supported me - is draining every project dry. The Minister is not accountable to anybody for the cervical cancer scandal, for the cost overrun on the national children's hospital or for anything else.

The hospital in Tipperary has the highest number of patients on trolleys last week on trolleys after Cork University Hospital. The latter is twice the size of our hospital. What is happening is outrageous.

I thank Deputies Healy, Cahill and Mattie McGrath for raising this very important issue concerning South Tipperary General Hospital.

The Minister and I fully recognise the importance of increasing bed capacity in our hospitals and the impact this will have on improving access for patients through emergency departments and for hospital inpatient and day case procedures. Hospitals are increasingly operating at or above capacity, with year-round demand pressures that are further challenged over the winter months. Approximately 1.3 million people attended emergency departments last year. South Tipperary General Hospital, as a model 3 hospital, is experiencing similar challenges to similar facilities. In 2018, over 30,000 patients attended the emergency department at South Tipperary General Hospital - a 1.7% reduction on 2017; 9,149 patients were admitted - a 6.5% increase on 2017; and, as a result, the number of patients recorded as waiting on trolleys at 8 a.m. was 3,739 - an increase of 3.1% compared to 2017. The health service capacity review indicates that Ireland has among the highest acute bed occupancy rates in the developed world at 94%, significantly ahead of the OECD average of 77%. It is against this background that the review recommended an increase in acute hospitals beds of over 2,600 by 2031 to support the projected increase in demand for services in the years ahead. The national development plan provides for the full 2,600 beds by 2028 - three years ahead of schedule. As a result, increasing capacity is a priority for the Government. Over the past 12 months, an additional 240 beds have been opened. A capacity programme for 2019 has been agreed and is set out in the national service plan for 2019. This includes: 75 acute beds and 70 community beds to come on stream in 2019 as part of the winter plan for 2018-2019; 78 additional beds planned for quarters 1 and 2 of 2019, including the 40-bed modular build in South Tipperary General Hospital; and preparation of 202 beds, of which 16 are critical care, by quarter 4 of 2019, with a view to bringing this extra capacity into operation in the first quarter of 2020. On foot of budget 2019 and the national service plan, the necessary funding is in place for the 40-bed modular build for South Tipperary General Hospital. This includes: funding to complete the construction; funding for equipment in the unit; and funding to staff the unit. The HSE is planning for the unit to be operational in the second quarter of this year. Increasing capacity alone will not address the challenges faced by the health system. Investment and reform must go hand in hand. We have seen in other hospitals in recent years that increased capacity coupled with an ambitious reform programme will deliver improved access for patients. That is why driving improvement processes in line with Sláintecare is a key objective of the Government to ensure that investment is coupled with reform.

I look forward to the completion of this new unit as it represents a significant investment in bed capacity in South Tipperary General Hospital. It will complement the existing 178 inpatient beds and 21 day beds and will support the provision of acute hospital services to the geographically wide catchment area of south Tipperary, west Waterford and varying areas of north Tipperary.

We are getting the usual spin from the Minister of State. We want to know the answers to questions. When will the allocations for equipment and staffing be made and how much will they be? We want those allocations to be made immediately. We have already been waiting for seven months for something to happen. It appears that the HSE may be intent on not opening this unit when it is completed. The Save Our Acute Hospital Services Committee got 15,000 people onto the streets of Clonmel with regard to a previous hospital issue and we will do the same again if the proper allocation for staffing and equipment is not put in place. I remind the Minister of State that we have local, European and possibly general elections on the way so the sooner he makes the allocations, the better. They need to be full allocations so this unit can be fully operational for at least the next autumn and winter period.

The Minister of State is sitting on necessary funding. We had a meeting last Friday with the management of South Tipperary General Hospital. The view from the management of that hospital was that there has been no provision for the needed funding. I would have expected the answer to the three Deputies here to include exactly how much money has been allocated.

He is not even listening.

"Necessary funding" is a very loose statement. We will hold the Minister of State accountable. This unit will be completed on 1 July after long years of being promised. We will insist that it is fully operational on that date, with funding in place. I have no confidence that that will be the case but the Minister of State gave a commitment here this evening and we will hold this Government responsible for that commitment being adhered to.

Ar an gcéad dul síos, gabhaim mo bhuíochas leis na daoine go léir ag obair in St. Joseph's Hospital. I thank and compliment the staff, including the people at the doors, consultants, management, nurses, front-line staff and everybody else for the work they do in appalling conditions. The last thing they want is a diatribe such as the Minister of State read out. He knows in his heart and soul, having sat over here three or four years ago, that he would not have accepted it. The Minister is in hiding and would not come here to talk to us. He can run but he cannot hide. He saw Cashel hospital and the splendid conditions there and refused to open a bed there. We know we will not have the money to staff it. We cannot get staff for the children's hospital or anywhere else. I believe the Minister of State is going to Nicaragua on St. Patrick's Day. I do not know where the man beside him, the Minister, Deputy Ross, is going, but wherever the two of them go, they should go on a one-way ticket and not come back because they are propping up this disastrous Fine Gael Government which is wreaking havoc on the people and does not care about ordinary people. Off with the two of them. I hope they will not get a return ticket because they are destroying rural Ireland single-handedly. When they were in opposition here, they would do everything, and now they do nothing. Reading out the diatribe is a scandal and the Minister of State knows that.

I assure Deputies that I do not do spin and I think Deputy Mattie McGrath is looking for an Oscar with his shenanigans in the Dáil.

He is like a spinning top.

I thank the Deputies for taking this issue seriously and discussing the plans of the capacity of South Tipperary General Hospital. As I have said, the HSE has confirmed that the 40-bed modular build for south Tipperary is planned to be operational in the second quarter of 2019.

When is the Minister of State going to-----

Show me the money.

The funding was provided in the budget in 2019 in the national service plan.

Let the Minister of State respond.

(Interruptions).

That was due to the dedication and efforts of the Independent Alliance.

When the Deputies were sitting on the fence, we were fighting for the people of Tipperary.

I acknowledge the unit was originally due for completion-----

The Minister of State has it all wrapped up.

The Minister of State is not fighting so well. We have no mental health beds.

-----and to open in 2018. The funding was in place. As the Deputies will be aware, the HSE advised in June 2018 that the process was delayed and I accept the point that the facility would not come into operation until early 2019. It is coming into operation now. To give assurances to the Deputies, I confirm that the HSE has advised the Department that the enabling works are well under way. That amending tender took place in February 2018 and the HSE awarded a contract to the successful company in April 2018.

What about the staff?

Capital funding is in place and construction and equipping of the unit-----

What about the staff?

We are talking about staffing.

-----is expected to be completed, with the HSE planning for the unit to be operational in the second quarter of 2019.

Show us the money.

We confirmed this in the debate today. It is essential that people listen to it.

(Interruptions).

I will raise any genuine concerns with the Minister, Deputy Harris-----

-----but I will not listen to any spin from Deputy Mattie McGrath. He is full of hot air.

Rail Network Expansion

I thank the Minister for coming in. Deputy Rock and I tabled this Topical Issue matter to discuss the pressing importance of this critical infrastructure, the metro, for Dublin. It is not just about my constituency, the inner city or Dublin Airport but the entire city. MetroLink is a project which is warranted and required by the city and will be seen in the future. We believe that the issues occurring on the south side relating to route selection will delay this project. The project is 45 years in the making. It was first suggested by Forfás in 1974 and if it was not for the economic collapse, it would probably have started by now. We have rough agreement on the proposed route alignment. While there will no doubt be some additional costs if we separate the programme, it will not be an extraordinary amount of money and it will not result in a substantial delay. It will perhaps be 12 months.

The construction of this project is scheduled to take five years so we need to get moving on it as quickly as possible. That is why both Deputy Rock and I believe that the project should be separated at St. Stephen's Green and the components which have already broadly been agreed can be delivered on in the coming years. That will require the National Transport Authority, NTA, to expedite its application for a railway order and get this project up and running. It is clear, given the extraordinary growth at Dublin Airport, which had 31 million passengers last year, with the second runway and the project for 50 million passengers in the next two decades, that it will require additional transport infrastructure to take the cars off the M50 and put passengers on trains and buses so they can go to the city centre and hop on the metro to get there in just 19 minutes. I implore the Minister to speak with the NTA and accelerate this project.

The genesis of this project is in Forfás in 1974. The most recent iteration which lives in memories such as my own is metro north, which was announced in 2007. Some 12 years later, we are no closer to getting a shovel in the ground than we were then. That is my concern and that of the north side of the city. It should be the concern of the entire city because unless we get the shovels in the ground for the metro project, this promise will remain unfulfilled. As it stands, north side communities, such as Ballymun, Santry and Swords in Deputy Farrell's constituency, and the airport are still under-served by public transport. Some 30 million passengers go through the airport, with 10 million tourists coming into our country, all of which are great numbers for the Minister's Department, and they are a credit to him. A real credit to him would be to see a legacy project such as this get a shovel in the ground immediately. Everybody in this House can see that the timelines are slipping due to a southside squabble. The northside disagreements on the route have been resolved and the route has been agreed. If this slips further, does the Minister simply intend to watch the NTA push these timelines indefinitely into the future?

Accordingly, I would like a commitment from the Minister to at least discuss with the NTA the idea of separating this project into a first phase and a second phase, with phase 1 being the north side to the city centre, or Swords to the city centre - effectively, the original metro north - and phase 2 being the city centre to perhaps Sandyford, perhaps elsewhere. This possibility should at least be explored now, while we have time, the capital infrastructure budget and Project Ireland 2040 is proceeding, to get those shovels into the ground and get this project moving forward.

I thank the Deputies for the opportunity to address this matter in the House. I appreciate their concerns for their own areas and their wish to see delivery of what will be a superb piece of infrastructure, not just for their constituencies, but for the entire city and, indeed, the entire country. Ironically, during last year's consultation on the emerging preferred route for MetroLink, northside issues initially dominated the headlines, and I do not recall southside Deputies at the time calling for the northside to be bypassed. In seriousness, though, I welcome the opportunity to update the House on the development of the MetroLink project.

As we are all aware, the national development plan, NDP, which was launched last year by Government as part of Project Ireland 2040, included the proposed development of MetroLink, linking Sandyford in south Dublin with Swords in north Dublin. There is a long history of a proposed north-south metro service in the Dublin area, with references to be found in the then Dublin Transportation Office's A Platform for Change document in 2000 and even before that. A project known as metro north was granted planning permission just as the economic and financial crisis hit. The current statutory transport strategy for the greater Dublin area, published in 2016, stated its objective to provide for a new metro north reaching from the city centre to Swords via the airport. It also stated its objective to provide for a metro south, which would extend southwards the new metro north and, importantly, a long-term, sustainable solution to the capacity issues inherent in the capability of a Luas-type service to operate along the green line into the medium and long term. In developing proposals for the national planning framework, NPF, and the NDP, the NTA and Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, combined these metro projects into MetroLink. Both the NPF and the NDP indicate Government's policy support for the development of this type of solution to both medium- and long-term public transport issues.

A metro service will provide a high-capacity, high-frequency corridor linking critical destinations across the city such as Swords, the airport, DCU, Ballymun and the city centre and all along the existing green line corridor. It will offer high-quality interchange with the commuter rail network and with our improved bus network, which will be delivered under BusConnects in the years ahead. It is because of all these fantastic advantages that I can understand the Deputies' wish for MetroLink to progress in their areas first and foremost. I have no doubt but that they made these very points as part of the public consultation process which took place last year on the emerging preferred route. Since then, the NTA and TII have been considering the thousands of submissions received with a view to developing what will be known as the preferred route. I am happy to inform the House that a further round of public consultation will take place shortly on this "preferred route". The preferred route will reflect the NTA's and TII's consideration of the issues raised during the extensive consultations held so far and allow members of the public to express their views again on the proposal.

The Deputies can understand that it would be wholly inappropriate for me to comment on particular route alignments while work by the relevant statutory agencies is under way. I encourage the Deputies to engage with the public consultation process when it opens again shortly. We are at an exciting time in shaping public transport for the years and decades to come as we deliver upon the ambition of the NPF and the NDP. I would like to think all of us in this House can agree that we need to improve continually our public transport system and support Government's efforts in this regard, as outlined under the NPF and NDP.

I thank the Minister for his response, although, with respect, we did not ask him to intervene in the route alignment. He is quite right that no southside Deputies involved themselves in the route alignment issue on the northside, but this was primarily because it was so quickly resolved. My sincerely held view is that this project will be delayed for perhaps a year because of the ongoing consultation process on the southside. This is not about my constituency, Deputy Rock's constituency or the constituency of the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, who has joined us. It is about providing 10 million tourists with the opportunity to avoid our road system, which is a nightmare at the best of times. It is about encouraging investment in the corridors towards Dublin city centre and out towards the north county, where we have an abundance of developable lands for industry and housing and other ancillary tourist attractions. This is not about constituency politics at all; it is about a critical piece of national infrastructure being delivered on time, as the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, announced at Heuston Station in November 2015. I was there with him and was delighted to see the project start up at that point, but it has slipped. I do not want to see it slip any further. That is the purpose of this debate. This is not about constituency politics at all.

Go raibh maith agat, a Theachta.

It is about supporting a piece of critical national infrastructure-----

-----that we must deliver.

Deputy Farrell has summed up the matter quite neatly. First and foremost, it is not about our constituencies; it is about the city and national infrastructure and delivering on it. We both engaged in the public consultation process - in fact, thousands of my constituents did so - and we were promised an outcome from that process last year. Last year slipped to this year; this year slipped to February; February, as of my latest discussion with the NTA yesterday, is now slipping to March, one year since the public consultation opened. The Minister suggested in his answer that we should engage in public consultation when it next opens. I would love to engage with the next stage of the public consultation but I cannot do so as it has been delayed indefinitely. That is a concern. My concern is the constant slippage and the battle now being played out via media on the southside of the city, in particular. My other concern is that the reality behind the scenes is that the NTA does not seem to have a ready-made solution for this problem. Unlike the problem on the northside to which the Minister alluded, and to which a solution was found quickly, this issue does not seem to be reaching a resolution quickly. A solution needs to be found quickly, and the best way of doing so is an instruction to split this into a first phase and a second phase.

I absolutely accept the points made by both Deputies. I presume it is just a coincidence that they want to divide the project into a north phase and a south phase and start with the north phase and that they just happen to represent northside constituencies. These things happen from time to time, and coincidences are not unusual in politics. I accept their points but I would say as a southsider that there are special problems on the southside as well. Both Deputies alluded to the airport as being very crowded and seeing a huge demand from passengers coming into and out of the city and into St. Stephen's Green. I am sure they will be aware, however, that on the southside there is also chronic overcrowding on public transport from time to time due to the bulge in population there. Both sides of the city have equal cause and equal right to a voice and to put their case for getting the MetroLink more quickly than the other. The reason it was called MetroLink, I think, was to ensure there was not this north-south divide and that this magnificent piece of infrastructure went ahead in tandem and in accordance with the wishes of the NTA. I will not interfere with the proposed route or in the day-to-day activities of the NTA but I will relate to the authority the views of both Deputies, their bias for the northside and their preference for the project to start there. I will leave it up to the NTA to make a decision.

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