Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 8 Feb 2022

Vol. 1017 No. 5

Dignity and Equality Issues in the Defence Forces: Motion [Private Members]

Deputy Sorca Clarke

I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

commends the Women of Honour, a group of former Defence Forces members, for their bravery, courage and commitment in telling their experiences in the public arena to bring about change;

notes:

— that violence, abuse, coercion and harassment of women and girls is systemic in society and is worse again in environments heavily reliant on power structures;

— the experiences of the Women of Honour group in relation to physical abuse, harassment, coercion, sexual assault and assault as highlighted are most serious; and

— that we have both a legal obligation and a moral obligation to ensure those who serve the State and offer protection to others at home and preserve peace abroad are themselves protected;

further notes that:

— the current internal system for dealing with complaints is not fit-for-purpose and fails to protect those who lodge complaints or those tasked with carrying out investigations;

— the Ombudsman for the Defence Forces is not an effective mechanism for dealing with complaints of the nature raised; and

— the Independent Review proposed by the Minister for Defence and its associated terms of reference fail to recognise the seriousness of this issue and do not offer sufficient scope to determine the scale and depth of the problems across the Defence Forces; and

calls on the Government to:

— establish a full statutory inquiry into allegations of abuse, harassment, sexual harassment, sexual abuse and repercussions following engagement with the internal system of righting a wrong;

— re-engage with all key stakeholders, including representatives of the Women of Honour group, to create fit-for-purpose terms of reference which provide for adequate scope to deal with these issues; and

— commit to zero tolerance of workplace bullying, harassment, discrimination, assault, sexual harassment and sexual assault, and all forms of gender-based violence.

I welcome the opportunity to bring forward this motion in support of, and to achieve some measure of justice for, the group that have become known as the Women of Honour, and others. This support is echoed across the country and, it would also seem to be the case on some local authorities, by Government party councillors, given the motions that have recently been put forward. I am not going to lie or sugar-coat this when I say that I am appalled and deeply saddened that circumstances have progressed in such a manner that the motion is necessary. I am also deeply disappointed at the proposed Government amendment to the motion.

I am also somewhat perplexed by the Government quoting sentences from our motion.

Five months ago, listeners were rendered speechless by the "Documentary on One" by Katie Hannon, entitled "Women of Honour". Even those of us who had been in contact with the women in the run-up to the documentary and had a small idea of what was to come were, like others, deeply disturbed at the range and depth of the issues raised. Those harrowing experiences recounted in public by the women of sexual assault, harassment, abuse and discrimination made for very uncomfortable and worrying listening. These female former members of the Defence Forces displayed bravery and fortitude in coming forward into such a public domain to speak about their experiences. Given the Government's proposed amendment, those are characteristics the women will continue to have to call on as the Government effectively gaslights them. The revelation of what those women endured made it clear that Ireland, like many other countries, was experiencing its own #MilitaryMeToo movement and that it would not be left unscathed.

In the aftermath of the revelations, there were meetings between Ministers and officials and the group, and assurances were given in public and in private that the Women of Honour would have input into the terms of reference. In a statement in September regarding the establishment of an inquiry into allegations, the Minister for Defence, Deputy Coveney, confirmed this would happen. However, in February 2022, there appears to have been not only a change of heart but a change of priorities. The only request, which was for a statutory inquiry, has been ignored. Instead, an internal review is the only show in town. The Minister and his officials are trying to convince both the Women of Honour and the rest of us that it is perfectly reasonable and not insulting at all to dilute the only request of the key stakeholders, a request made so that nobody else would go through the experiences they went through. How are these women, who chose to serve the State and were repeatedly let down by the structures and successive governments, expected to have faith in a review where nobody is compelled to engage or attend and which will rely entirely on the goodwill of potential conversations?

It is small wonder the Women of Honour left the last meeting with the Minister for Defence. I presume he is still at the meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence, since he is not here to deal with a defence matter. The women said to me, as they said in a public statement, that they effectively felt like they had been patted on the head. That was their take from it. The core message from the Women of Honour is that they want to ensure no other member of the Defence Forces endures what they endured. They know, just as the Minister knows, that nothing will change as a result of this review. The Minister must re-engage with the key stakeholders, the Women of Honour group, and create fit-for-purpose terms of reference that provide for adequate scope to deal with the issues in a statutory inquiry, not a review. It may be late, but there is still an opportunity for the Minister for Defence to do the right thing for this group.

Deputy Réada Cronin

The Minister is doing a grave dishonour to the Women of Honour by refusing to grant the commission of investigation they want and deserve. In recounting their appalling experiences at the hands of men, among them senior officers wearing the uniform of the State, they are taking on not just their alleged abusers but the entire apparatus of the Defence Forces and the State, and by God we know how the institutions in this State like to protect themselves. We know the lengths the State will go to in order to defend the indefensible, and do so lavishly and with great effort with the people’s money. It is not lost on people that when anybody has to challenge the State and its agencies, it is the people's taxes that pay for the legal and institutional war the State wages against the person. The names Vicky Phelan, the late Emma Mhic Mhathúna and Brigid McCole come to mind.

The review proposed by the Minister is an insult to the Women of Honour, the experiences they are making public and their bravery. Such a review degrades their service, their courage and their commitment to the State and, by extension, to all of us. A statutory and independent commission of investigation is the very least that should be offered. What the women have raised - sexual harassment, abuse, coercion, manipulation and rape - are things that go to the heart of the history of women in this State. That they should raise this in respect of the Defence Forces of the State and that they are granted a review is, frankly, disgusting. It also revictimises and retraumatises them by diminishing their experience in the alleged behaviour and minimising the examination of it in a simple review. Ordinary people in Ireland are better than this, and we must do better by these women.

The women are highly disciplined and highly trained to defend and protect the State and to keep the peace overseas. They are not looking for kid-glove treatment. They are well able to defend the women who are coming behind them. I commend them on telling their story, and I commend Deputy Clarke on tabling this motion. As she has outlined, there should be no inside job here and no review. They should have the statutory commission of investigation.

Deputy Patricia Ryan

I begin by commending the Women of Honour on their bravery, courage and commitment in sharing their experiences in the public arena to bring about change. Unfortunately, the allegations, while shocking, were no surprise to me. I had read reports on the work done by the former captain, Tom Clonan. I also read the emails that all Deputies receive, almost daily, from retired sergeant, Anthony O'Brien. Many Members will be familiar with the C1 Excel document which details a litany of allegations, including allegations involving male victims and the sexual abuse of children.

There are many sad and sick stories in this document, including that of a female soldier who was raped on her first tour overseas. Her rapist was fined three days' pay. The female soldier was labelled a troublemaker, a slut and worse. She was badly let down by the system that was meant to protect her. She attempted suicide a number of times and became an alcoholic. There is the story of a female sailor who was drugged and raped, which resulted in pregnancy. She miscarried. She told her doctor what had happened and he told her it was her word against that of the rapist. The officer who raped her was a serial rapist who was known for trying to get into female bunks while at sea. He was eventually forced to retire with a senior petty officer's pension and a gratuity. There is the story of the rape of two female soldiers by four soldiers while on a tour of duty in Lebanon. These soldiers had a reputation for depraved behaviour. The two female soldiers had their drinks spiked. They were then stripped and anally raped. The rapists then dressed them again and put them back to bed. There are many allegations that resulted in cover-ups, forced moves, closing ranks and the quiet retirement of perpetrators.

It is clear the current internal system for dealing with complaints is not fit for purpose and fails to protect those who lodge complaints and those tasked with carrying out investigations. In the Women of Honour documentary we heard the story of Ciara who not only had to endure sexual harassment but had to pay €2,500 to buy her way out of the Defence Forces. That is rubbing salt in the wound.

The Government must commit to zero tolerance of workplace bullying, harassment, discrimination, assault, sexual harassment and sexual assault in all forms, and all forms of gender-based violence. The first step is to establish a full statutory inquiry into these allegations. It is time to acknowledge the wrongs of the past and to ensure our Defence Forces are a safe environment for all.

Deputy Mark Ward

First, I thank my colleague, Deputy Clarke, not only for bringing this motion before the Dáil but also for the tireless work she has done on this issue. It was very difficult for the Women of Honour to come forward and tell their stories. They have had to wade and fight their way through bureaucratic and cultural systems that are designed to keep them quiet and not to challenge the status quo. On that note, I extend my admiration and support to the Women of Honour group and all survivors who have come forward bravely to tell their stories.

Abuse and harassment are totally unacceptable in any workplace and we must show zero tolerance as a society. The Defence Forces should be no different. All Defence Forces personnel should be treated equally with dignity and respect at work.

They should have the same rights to a safe workplace as any other sector of society. Unfortunately, recent horrific incidents have brought the difficulties that women encounter daily right to the fore. It should not have taken the death of Ashling Murphy to catapult gender-based harms into the public domain, but we now have the opportunity to address all the difficulties women face just by being women.

The Government needs to establish a full statutory inquiry into allegations of abuse, harassment, sexual harassment, sexual abuse and repercussions in the Defence Forces following engagement with the internal system. The Government, especially the Minister for Defence, Deputy Coveney, continues to fail and let down these women. The proposal to hold a review is far short of what is needed. There must be re-engagement with all key stakeholders, including representatives of the Women of Honour, to create fit-for-purpose terms of reference that provide for adequate scope to deal with all these issues.

The current internal system for dealing with complaints is not fit for purpose. These allegations of bullying, harassment, assault and rape in the Defence Forces are deeply concerning and require a commission of investigation. Survivors have been very clear that nothing less than a commission of investigation will be acceptable in appropriately examining what has happened. It must be fixed now to protect all current and future members of the Defence Forces and the Navy.

Deputy Imelda Munster

I welcome the opportunity to speak to this very important motion that has been brought forward by my colleague, Deputy Sorca Clarke. We have all been horrified by the stories told in Ms Katie Hannon's RTÉ documentary from last September, which laid bare the horrific abuse, harassment and discrimination experienced by some female members of the Defence Forces. At that time, the Minister, Deputy Coveney, gave assurances that those affected would have input into the terms of reference of any investigation taking place, saying the matter was a priority for him. He met the women, who told him they wanted an independent investigation into the problems with the complaints procedures as well as the addressing of the cultural actions after a complaint is made, including prolonged harassment and bullying. Instead the Minister reneged on his earlier commitment and announced an internal review rather than a statutory inquiry.

That internal review had terms of reference that were not agreed by the affected women. There would be no compellability under the review and no criticism, blame or factual or legal findings. It was just an internal review of the process. Quite frankly, this is very offensive, showing contempt for the women who have experienced abuse and harassment and who have bravely spoken publicly about those dreadful experiences. These women rightly feel let down and that they have been sidelined. It is a complete failure by the Minister, Deputy Coveney, to understand the seriousness of the allegations. It does nothing to address the root problems and it will not address what happens after a complaint is made, where the complainants are harassed, bullied and victimised.

The Minister must go back to the drawing board and establish a full statutory inquiry into these allegations, including what happens after a complaint is made. He must engage with the women affected and other stakeholders to ensure the terms of reference are fit for purpose. If the Government is serious about how women in society are treated, this must be fixed. We need a Government that will ensure zero tolerance of workplace bullying, harassment, discrimination, sexual assault, sexual harassment and all forms of gender-based violence. We have had enough talk about it and now we need to see action.

Deputy Paul Donnelly

I first commend the bravery and determination of these women in their pursuit of truth and justice. There should be no delay by this Government in the implementation of a commission of investigation into allegations by the Women of Honour. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, can do the right thing here and I implore him to do that. The State must stand up to the perpetrators of abuse towards women and let them see that their alleged positions of superiority do not become a hiding place for their actions.

I receive weekly correspondence, as all the Deputies do, from an ex-soldier who has been championing the cause of sexual abuse survivors, both male and female, in the forces over many years, and nearly all at the hands of senior officers. This is not a new problem in the armed forces but it must stop and must be dealt with now. A workplace should be a place considered a safe environment. These brave women put their lives at risk in war-torn countries acting as peacemakers and representing the highly respected peacekeeping record of this country. They should not have to fear their peers or superiors and targeted sexual abuse also.

We have only heard in recent days of a breach of Covid-19 restrictions, where up to 260 people attended a barbecue at a time when outdoor gatherings were limited to 15 people, and the case of another alleged sexual abuse case on a young female soldier by a senior officer at the same event. There seems to be a sense of entitlement and a lack of fear of accountability in the Defence Forces. This must be dealt with. Senior officers, along with the Department and the Government as a whole, must do better.

Deputy Martin Kenny

The truth is that people throughout the country were horrified when they heard Katie Hannon's programme last September as it laid bare something people could never have imagined would happen within the Defence Forces. I guess most people would have considered the Defence Forces as a place with a command structure and controlled environment. Of course, as we know from other institutions, even with that structure, predators can feel they have major opportunity. That has been the case for these women, who very bravely came forward and laid bare their souls to the country. They have been the victims of sexual assault, rape and abuse, as well as coercion and coercive control in that structure.

One of the biggest tragedies of this is that when these women went to their senior officers to complain and tried to get this dealt with, it was hushed up, covered up and they were shut up and put back in the corner. That is worthy of an inquiry in itself, without ever talking about the abuse they went through. We are a country with a long history of dealing with similar cases in various institutions and it would be very remiss of the Government to go down the road of reinforcing the old ways rather than opening new ones. This is an opportunity to demonstrate that times have changed and things are different.

It is a relatively new position that has been uncovered in recent years in the Defence Forces. Nobody can say it has been going on for years and nobody knew about it, although perhaps people did. It is certainly something that was not discussed in this arena until very recently. The Government now has the opportunity to handle this correctly and demonstrate it will do it properly. We all believed the Minister, in fairness, when he met the Women of Honour and said this would be a priority and he would do what was required to show things would be different. Yet he has returned to this notion of having an internal review, which is totally inappropriate and wrong. It reinforces the wrong that happened in the first place. It is retraumatising these women, and we think of the courage they had to come forward and do the programme with Katie Hannon. They told their stories to the public but the Minister and the Government are turning their backs on them, which is an absolute disgrace. It would be a disgrace for the Government to continue down this path.

There must be a reflection on where the Government is going with this matter. The Government should recognise that this is an opportunity for it to do something historic in this country and do something right by women. It has never been the case in the past.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Jack Chambers)

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"commends the Women of Honour, a group of former Defence Forces members, for their bravery, courage and commitment in telling their experiences in the public arena to bring about change;

notes:

— that, as part of the Government plan to tackle domestic, sexual and gender-based violence in all its forms, the Department of Justice is leading on the development of the third national strategy on Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence;

— the experiences shared by the Women of Honour group in relation to physical abuse, harassment, coercion, sexual assault and assault as highlighted are shocking, very serious and utterly unacceptable;

— that unfortunately the systems, policies and workplace culture in the Defence Forces have not, and are not, serving all personnel well; and

— that the Government has both a legal and moral obligation to ensure those who serve the State and offer protection to others at home and abroad are themselves protected; and

further notes that:

— following a Government decision, the Minister for Defence has established a judge-led Independent Review:

— to advise the Minister for Defence on whether the current legislative frameworks, policies, procedures and practices for addressing incidents of unacceptable behaviour in the workplace are effective;

— to independently assess whether the pervading culture in the workplace is fully aligned with the principles of dignity, equality, mutual respect and duty of care for every member of the Defence Forces; and

— to provide recommendations and guidance to the Minister for Defence on measures and strategies required to underpin a workplace based on dignity, equality, mutual respect, and duty of care for every member of the Defence Forces;

— on receipt of the final report from the Independent Review, the Government will consider the requirement for further work, and in particular, if further work is required to examine issues of an historical nature;

— the Minister for Defence encourages all stakeholders, including the Women of Honour group, the men and women of honour group, serving personnel and the representative associations to engage with the Independent Review; and

— the Minister for Defence is committed to zero tolerance of workplace bullying, harassment, discrimination, assault, sexual harassment and sexual assault, and all forms of gender-based violence."

Unfortunately, the Minister cannot be present this evening and he has asked me to pass on his apologies to Members. On his behalf I welcome the opportunity to respond to Sinn Féin on this important matter, and I thank the Members opposite for their contributions over the past 20 minutes.

I confirm, without question, that the Government commends the Women of Honour, a group of former Defence Forces members, on their bravery, courage and commitment in telling their experiences in the public arena to bring about change. I had the privilege of meeting the Women of Honour group on 29 October last, when I had the opportunity to hear first hand their personal experiences and their wish for change for serving members and future members of the Defence Forces.

There are policies, systems and procedures currently in place for dealing with allegations and complaints of inappropriate behaviour in the workplace, but it is clear from strong views expressed at the meetings both I and my colleague have had with stakeholders, including serving members, that the pervading culture in the Defence Forces, and those policies, systems and procedures have not served and are not serving all Defence Forces personnel well.

We share a common position on the issues being raised. I agree completely with the reference in the motion that violence, abuse, coercion and harassment of any individual in any society is totally unacceptable. The abuse of power is not acceptable in any form. This is why the development of the third national strategy on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, led by the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, is so important in tackling this epidemic. As the Minister has said, "it is vital that we step up our policy response right across Departments and agencies to ensure that the third strategy is the most ambitious yet".

The Government acknowledges that the experiences shared by the Women of Honour group in relation to physical abuse, harassment, coercion, sexual assault and assault as highlighted are shocking, very serious and utterly unacceptable. We have both a legal obligation and a moral obligation to ensure those who serve the State and offer protection to others at home and abroad are themselves protected. It is for this reason the independent review that has been approved by Cabinet is now operational and is proceeding without delay as a critical and necessary next step in addressing these serious issues. Members of the Defence Forces expect nothing less. My colleague, the Minister, Deputy Coveney, has an immediate obligation to serving members to ensure the workplace is safe and that there is zero tolerance of unacceptable behaviour in the Defence Forces. In this, the Minister has the full support of Government.

I am aware there was extensive engagement with a range of stakeholders over previous months, including serving members, the representative associations, the Women of Honour group and a further group of the original Women of Honour group - the men and women of honour group - on the terms of reference, which were approved by Government on 25 January last. I understand the Secretary General and senior officials at the Department of Defence met the Women of Honour group on seven occasions, and on three of those occasions the Minister, Deputy Coveney, was also in attendance. As I have already mentioned, I also met with the group on 29 October last. In addition, meetings have also been held with the men and women of honour group.

On foot of these engagements with stakeholders, I am aware a number of observations have been incorporated into the terms, including the bringing of the Department of Defence within the scope of the review's body of work, which is a particular ask of the Women of Honour group. The review group will also be engaging with the various structures within the complaints process, including the independent Office of the Ombudsman of the Defence Forces.

While the independent review has the support of stakeholders, including serving members of the Defence Forces, I am aware the Women of Honour group has expressed the disappointment of its members with the review and is seeking the establishment of a tribunal of inquiry. I am aware the Taoiseach met with members of the Women of Honour group on Monday, 31 January. He listened very carefully to their views and advised them that he concurred with the Minister, Deputy Coveney, on the need to take action now to address the need for a safe work environment for serving members founded on zero tolerance for unacceptable behaviour. The Taoiseach also met with members of the men and women of honour group on Friday, 4 February. They relayed their harrowing experiences to him and stated they supported the independent review and would co-operate with it. I express my appreciation to the members of this group for also having the courage to share their experiences with the Taoiseach.

These are complex issues with different views from stakeholders as to how best to address them. Both the Minister and the Taoiseach have underlined that the Government is not ruling out a further body of work in the future to examine allegations of a historical nature, and I wish to echo that message this evening. The terms of reference for the review provide that Government may consider further work on receipt of the independent review findings. The review group, comprising three members, is chaired by Bronagh O'Hanlon, a recently retired High Court judge. The other members of the group are senior counsel Mark Connaughton and HR specialist Jane Williams. Their work has commenced and they have been specifically asked to advise whether further work is required to examine issues of an historical nature and to make any recommendations in this regard. As the Minister has indicated previously, an interim report is expected within six months and a final report within 12 months, which will be brought to Government.

I again commend those in the Women of Honour group on their courage in sharing their experiences and I emphasise in no uncertain terms that their concerns are not being ignored. The Government is fully cognisant of the trauma that can be suffered by victims and the need to consider carefully the most appropriate course of action. On foot of initial engagements with serving members of the Defence Forces and the Women of Honour group last September, the Minister announced last October interim support measures for members of the Defence Forces impacted by unacceptable behaviour in the workplace.

A confidential contact person, who has been appointed within Raiseaconcern, is available to assist serving and former members of the Defence Forces, and this provides a safe place to support the reporting of alleged wrongdoing in the workplace. The service is up and running since the announcement and has received and is receiving calls. Given the nature of the allegations, the Minister acted quickly in putting in place an appropriate confidential contact person who is independent and outside the chain of command, and whose role is to listen to the caller, assist in documenting his or her allegations, and provide guidance on follow-on options.

The Inspire confidential helpline, which is available on a 24-7 basis for all serving members of the Defence Forces, has also been made available to anyone who has contacted the confidential contact person. In addition, the personnel support service in the Defence Forces assists members and their immediate family with the provision of information and advice on areas, including stress management, counselling and referral options.

Whether recent or historical, however, the Minister and the Government have been consistent in the message that those who may have suffered serious wrong of a criminal nature are urged to report their concerns to An Garda Síochána, which has lawful authority, skills and resources to investigate such matters. I strongly support this position. I commend this countermotion to the House.

Debate adjourned.