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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 Feb 2022

Vol. 1018 No. 2

Ceisteanna - Questions

Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

Neale Richmond

Question:

1. Deputy Neale Richmond asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent meeting with the British Prime Minister. [6422/22]

Mary Lou McDonald

Question:

2. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent engagement with the British Prime Minister. [7523/22]

Richard Boyd Barrett

Question:

3. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent meeting with the British Prime Minister. [7681/22]

Paul Murphy

Question:

4. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent meeting with the British Prime Minister. [7684/22]

Neale Richmond

Question:

5. Deputy Neale Richmond asked the Taoiseach when he will next meet the British Prime Minister. [7768/22]

Peadar Tóibín

Question:

6. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent meeting with the British Prime Minister. [7797/22]

Mick Barry

Question:

7. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent meeting with the British Prime Minister. [7958/22]

Alan Kelly

Question:

8. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent meeting with the British Prime Minister. [7925/22]

Brendan Smith

Question:

9. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent discussions with the British Prime Minister. [8041/22]

Seán Haughey

Question:

10. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his most recent engagement with the British Prime Minister. [8042/22]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 10, inclusive, together.

I spoke to the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, by telephone on Wednesday, 24 November, when we discussed the Northern Ireland protocol. I also congratulated him on the successful hosting of COP26 in Glasgow. We briefly referenced the latest developments on Covid-19. I welcomed the continuation of the talks between the European Union and the United Kingdom on the implementation of the protocol. I said that it was essential that these lead to substantive progress and joint, tangible solutions within the framework of the protocol. I emphasised to him that it was vital for stability in Northern Ireland, for the British-Irish relationship and for the wider European Union-United Kingdom relationship that this would be resolved through agreed solutions. I repeated our view that any triggering of Article 16 would also have far-reaching implications for stability in Northern Ireland, for the British-Irish relationship and for the wider European Union-United Kingdom relationship. We agreed that co-operation between our two Governments is key to ensuring peace and stability in Northern Ireland, which is a priority for both Governments.

I subsequently wrote to the Prime Minister on 7 December to reiterate my deep concern about the British Government’s proposed approach to legacy, as well as to emphasise that any decision to proceed with United Kingdom legislation on this basis would have negative consequences for reconciliation, for victims and for political stability in Northern Ireland. In light of this, I urged that his Government would continue to engage with us and with the stakeholders in Northern Ireland to find a common way forward on these difficult matters. I also had an opportunity to engage briefly with the Prime Minister during the world leaders summit at the 26th UN Climate Change Conference of the Parties in Glasgow, on 1 and 2 November.

The Government continues to give priority to engaging with the United Kingdom. Last year, more than 54 east-west meetings were held at ministerial or Secretary General level. This reflects the importance of our bilateral relationship, our ambition to strengthen our people-to-people and business-to-business ties and the need to address current challenges.

I ask that each speaker sticks to a minute and a half, because there are six speakers.

I spoke to the Taoiseach after the publication of the latest report of the police ombudsman. Having due regard for the fact that this is just the latest in a series of damning reports that shine a light on collusion, the actions of the British state, the targeting and murder of citizens by agents of the state, I said that it would be important that we have a full, comprehensive response from the Irish State and from the Irish Government. We are still awaiting that. By a response, I do not mean simply a response to a question on the floor of the Dáil. I mean a properly constructed political and diplomatic response from the Taoiseach’s Government. That should form the basis of his engagement with Boris Johnson on these matters. I accept that the Taoiseach is against the amnesty. It is our common goal to have that proposal pushed back. However, when he talks about a common way forward, there is a common, agreed framework, which is called the Stormont House Agreement. That is what I believe the Taoiseach needs to be arguing for.

Can the Taoiseach set out for us his proposed course of action on these matters? Can he also set out for us what contact he has had in respect of Acht na Gaeilge, the Irish Language Act, as well as the commissioning of abortion services? Both of these are awaited and the British Government must act on them.

Eighteen years ago, the British Government was critical in supporting the US Government in telling a pack of lies about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Those lies were used to justify a murderous war in that country, albeit against the nasty regime of Saddam Hussein. However, the premise of the war was a pack of lies that had been recycled by the British Government and the US Government. That war had disastrous consequences for the people of Iraq and the entire region. Given the events of the last few weeks around Ukraine, does that history give the Taoiseach any pause for thought about the claims of NATO and the United States that an invasion of Ukraine is imminent? Do not get me wrong; Putin is a nasty, authoritarian piece of work and I do not trust him. However, the Russian ambassador has stated that it would be insane for them to invade Ukraine. The Russians have started to move some of their military forces away from the border and, indeed, out of Crimea. Yet, NATO and the US are still saying that war is likely. This happens to coincide with NATO and the European Union looking for massive increases in military expenditure, including from this country. Does the Taoiseach not think that to some extent the role of a neutral country is to ask questions about the drums that are beating for war?

The UK Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, has been one of the leading international figures who is beating the drums of war and aggression with Russia and who is calling for further NATO expansion. As Deputy Boyd Barrett mentioned, yesterday, 15 February, was the 19th anniversary of the day on which more than 100,000 people marched on the streets of Dublin in 2003. This was part of global protests by tens of millions of people who were opposition to war. Nearly two decades later, we can see clearly that those of us who marched were in the right, and how wrong all of the spin and the propaganda about weapons of mass destruction, etc., really was.

What is the Government doing now in the context of the drums of war being beaten once more? It has been presented with a report that is calling for a massive expansion in spending on the military. A tripling of such expenditure is called for in one scenario - this is the supposed middle-ground scenario - and an increase of 50% is called for in another. What other Department would get an increase of 50% in funding? That is €500 million more to be spent on warships or missiles. That amount would be sufficient to fund the introduction of free public transport right across the country. There are 44 references to NATO in the report in question. Should we not be prioritising welfare over warfare? Can the Taoiseach tell Johnson that we are not joining NATO?

A bit closer to home, the political events in Northern Ireland continue to mystify and trouble many of us on this island. It is about time that the Taoiseach and, more particularly, British Prime Minister, really engaged with this process. I am asking for the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference to be convened and for a full engagement on the part of the Taoiseach and the Prime Minister, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in order to ensure that the people of Northern Ireland will not be left behind in terms of representation when it comes to the Northern Ireland Executive.

We need to make sure important legislation is passed and that, whenever we have an Assembly election in Northern Ireland, an Executive will be formed afterwards regardless of the result.

The following was sent to me by the Minister for Defence, Deputy Simon Coveney, in a written reply to a parliamentary question on 20 January:

In respect of deepening European Union and NATO links, it is my view that as an active partner of NATO through Partnership for Peace, Ireland should continue to welcome EU-NATO co-operation where it benefits international peace and security and is focused on avoiding duplication of structures, systems and interoperability standards.

Boris Johnson is Prime Minister of an imperialist power that plays a key role in NATO. Before the Taoiseach meets him next, I would like to know whether he endorses the Minister's comments. Is it now official Government policy to move this State towards closer co-operation with NATO?

I have a very specific and direct question. Is there any official, unofficial or secret agreement between the Irish State and the UK Government that permits the Royal Air Force, RAF, to conduct any form of armed operations in Irish airspace? Will the Taoiseach confirm to the House that this agreement does, or does not, exist? Under Article 15.6 of the Constitution, the Oireachtas is the only authority that can allow any other military force to operate within our State or on behalf of the State. Can the Taoiseach confirm to the House that no such agreement exists, either officially or unofficially? If one does exist, and a lot of people think that, will the Taoiseach finally confirm that to the House? The Oireachtas deserves and needs to know.

As the Taoiseach knows, the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland, Marie Anderson, issued a 344-page report last week on a number of loyalist paramilitary killings in the 1990s, including the massacre at Sean Graham's bookmakers on the Ormeau Road in February 1992. The report makes for shocking reading. The ombudsman found that there was collusive behaviour between the RUC, the Ulster Defence Association and the Ulster Freedom Fighters. The report outlines how the police provided weapons to these paramilitary organisations. It highlights how records regarding loyalist informants were destroyed and shows how warnings were not passed on to those known to be under threat, such as in the case of Jim Clinton and his wife and family. The term "collusive behaviour" was used by the ombudsman for legal reasons but it certainly means collusion in any language. Yet again, the issue of legacy arises from this report. Will the Taoiseach continue to press the British Government to play its part in implementing the provisions of New Decade, New Approach as regards legacy and urge it to drop its proposed legislation for a statute of limitations ending criminal investigations and prosecutions for Troubles-related incidents, as well as inquests and civil litigation?

Deputy McDonald raised a range of issues, primarily in respect of the ombudsman's report, which Deputy Haughey has also raised. It was shocking behaviour, as Deputy Haughey described it. The ombudsman described collusive behaviour - collusion, essentially - in the use of agents and weapons, including the handing back of weapons to loyalist paramilitaries. I have indicated a specific response to the ombudsman's report. The broader issue of legacy is one that we continue to work on, with both the British Government and the parties in Northern Ireland. Both of the recent reports from the ombudsman have to form part of that.

I have met with a number of organisations representing victims, who are very impatient and have been waiting a long time for closure in respect of what happened to their loved ones. The families of the victims represent a broad range of people in Northern Ireland society and in the Republic. Suffice to say, there has been a stalling since 2010, and since the signing of the Stormont House Agreement, with regard to the full and comprehensive nature of legacy inquiries and mechanisms to bring closure to families and to have accountability and justice. We are very clear on this matter. We have entered into discussions with the British Government and the Northern Ireland parties through the British–Irish Intergovernmental Conference and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Coveney, is working on that.

On Acht na Gaeilge, Deputy McDonald will be aware that the Minister of State for Northern Ireland, Conor Burns, stated at the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee last week that it is very firmly the British Government's intention to bring forward the legislation before the Northern Ireland elections. All the detail was worked out in New Decade, New Approach and it should be implemented along with all the other commitments in that agreement.

Deputies Boyd Barrett, Barry and Paul Murphy raised the issue of Ukraine and Russia. I am taken aback that they have swung it right around and are now suggesting that it is NATO that is at fault. I find that an extraordinary conclusion to come to. That is what I derive from what they have said. They are saying that it is now NATO beating the drums of war.

They have expanded more than 800 km.

There are more than 100,000 Russian troops on the border of Ukraine. Ukraine should be entitled to its self-determination. I do not believe it is justifiable to have so many troops on the border with Ukraine-----

Does the Taoiseach trust US military intelligence?

-----and such militarisation there. I hope this continues to de-escalate. We do not want war. Above all, the people of Ukraine do not need war, destruction or conflict. Dialogue and diplomacy are extremely important. It is not in any way accurate to suggest that NATO is beating the drums of war here. NATO does not want war. The European Union does not want war and the member states of the European Union do not want war, at all. That is clear. People are anxious about the security architecture around Europe-----

It has all changed since Iraq, has it?

The Deputy has moved very quickly from the 120,000 Russian troops amassing on the Ukrainian border to blaming the British and the US. That is fantastic. He is back on terra firma again in terms of his ideological position on these matters

The Americans and British are angels then.

I did not say that at all.

We are running out of time.

I think I covered all three Deputies in the one response there.

What about Ireland's relationship with NATO?

I fully agree with Deputy Richmond. There is full engagement with the United Kingdom Government in respect of all aspects of the current situation in Northern Ireland, including legacy, the protocol and implementation of the trade agreement.

On Deputy Kelly's question, I am not aware of any agreement but I will come back to him on the specifics of the issue he raised with regard to RAF armed operations in the State.

To come back to Deputy Barry, the Partnership for Peace is well known. The country has entered into that in previous times. There are new threats to us. Cybersecurity is a major threat where we have to rely on other states to help us, particularly in the European Union. As I said yesterday, the United Kingdom and Poland came to our assistance on the occasion of that cyberattack.

So closer relations.

There are new hybrid threats happening all over member states of the European Union.

New computers for the HSE might help.

Look at what happened in Belarus, which is protected by Russia. The use of migrants to create issues with EU member states was appalling in that respect.

I fully take on board what Deputy Haughey said. I believe I answered his question in my response to Deputy McDonald in respect of that 344-page report from the ombudsman. We will come back to that again.

Covid-19 Pandemic

Ruairí Ó Murchú

Question:

11. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of his Department’s Covid-19 and health unit. [6481/22]

Richard Boyd Barrett

Question:

12. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of his Department’s Covid-19 and health unit. [7682/22]

Paul Murphy

Question:

13. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of his Department’s Covid-19 and health unit. [7685/22]

Peadar Tóibín

Question:

14. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the Covid-19 and health unit of his Department. [7798/22]

Alan Kelly

Question:

15. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of his Department’s Covid-19 and health unit. [7920/22]

Mick Barry

Question:

16. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the Covid-19 and health unit of his Department. [8387/22]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 11 to 16, inclusive, together.

The Covid-19 and health unit of my Department supports me and the Government in co-ordinating the Government's response to Covid-19, and in developing and implementing health policy and related matters. This includes supporting the work of the Cabinet committee on Covid-19, the Cabinet committee on health and the associated supporting senior officials' groups and structures.

The Cabinet committee on Covid-19 assesses the social and economic impacts of the potential spread of Covid-19 and oversees the cross-Government response. The Cabinet committee on health oversees the implementation of programme for Government commitments in respect of health, receives detailed reports on identified policy areas and considers the implementation of health reforms including Sláintecare.

The Covid-19 and health unit also provides me with speeches and briefing material on Covid-19 and health matters for Government meetings, Cabinet committees, Oireachtas business, attendance at events and engagements with a wide range of stakeholders, including representative bodies and members of the public. The unit forms part of the social policy and public service reform division of the Department.

There is more evidence today of the crisis in the health system. Covid shone a light on a hopelessly dysfunctional, fragmented, under-resourced and understaffed health service and brought us to the brink but all that dysfunction, fragmentation and lack of resources and staff is coming back to bite us quickly in the aftermath of the pandemic, especially in the context of emergency departments being overrun and what we saw in north Kerry child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, which is widespread. Why are we failing to recruit and retain the staff that are necessary in order to provide the health service that we need? One problem I would put to the Taoiseach is that when I asked the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, for a review of the over-medication of children by CAMHS because of the lack of staff last April, he did not answer the question directly but bounced it on to the HSE, which then gave me a pro forma answer which stated that there would not be a review. I asked a question in April regarding a general review of the over-medication of young people by CAMHS because of the lack of staffing, which, I believe, is widespread and is not limited to north Kerry. The Minister for Health - this is standard practice when you ask the Department of Health for anything - stated that he was not going to answer the question and that he would bang it on to the HSE because it was responsible for it. This begs the question as to what the Department of Health and the Minister are responsible for. The HSE gave me a pro forma answer indicating that it would not conduct a review and now we have the scandal with regard to what happened in north Kerry. Is the lack of a proper, integrated, properly governed health service part of the reason nobody wants to work in it?

New figures have just come out on the Covid hub about the levels of hospitalisation of children due to Covid. They are very concerning. The figures cover the period up to the end of January. Hospitalisations for those between zero and four years of age number 217. That compares with the numbers throughout the course of 2021 of, on average, 25 a month. There are 217 children between the ages of zero to four years of age in hospital due to Covid right now. In the five- to 14-year-old age group, there are 172. This compares with an average of fewer than 20 during 2021. Already, we are at the point where there have been more hospital days for children due to Covid this year than throughout the entirety of 2021. That tallies with what we are hearing in terms of schools. There were 14,000 - an unprecedented number - teachers out due to Covid last month. We know the risks here in terms of admission to ICU, hospitalisation, the impact on the rest of the health service and the 10% who will suffer from long Covid. In light of all of that data, is it not correct to take a cautious approach in terms of lifting the recommendation on masks and in the context of the public health guidance that is in place to protect people?

Covid has caused a significant increase in the waiting lists and a build-up of problems which are not fully diagnosed - pardon the pun - in the health service. A new plan on hospital waiting lists is to be brought to the Government shortly. Will the Taoiseach update us on when that will happen? Is this unit that sits in the Department of the Taoiseach involved in this plan?

Reports today indicate that the 2022 plan is funded to the tune of €350 million and that it will set out actions to address backlogs and deliver further reductions. Can the Taoiseach confirm if funding for this will be reallocated money that was destined for recruitment, a matter I raised with him yesterday, or will the recruitment money be ring-fenced and separate? This is an important question.

What is being put in place to do catch-up regarding human papillomavirus, HPV, screening and other screening programmes, and also in relation to vaccinations? Finally, when will the capital plan for 2022 be announced or must the Government treat it the same way as it treated sports capital grants and make sure it gets all the information out beforehand across the country?

The National Public Health Emergency Team, NPHET, meets tomorrow to discuss its advice to Government regarding schools. I want to ask the Taoiseach whether he and his Minister for Education intend to fully consult with workers in the schools, including the teachers, before they make decisions on these issues. Covid is far from a done deal in the schools. In fact, there were 14,390 teachers absent for Covid-related reasons from the schools in the month of January, an increase of 55% on December. Those figures do not include 270 schools run by the education and training boards. Meanwhile, hundreds of student teachers currently on placement are due to finish up this week which will cause a further teacher shortfall. These are key issues for the school communities. Can the Taoiseach tell us the Government's plans with regards to proper and full consultation?

I want to raise with the Taoiseach again the closure of the Keltoi rehabilitation unit at St. Mary's Hospital in the Phoenix Park. As the Taoiseach will be aware, this has been raised consistently by Members of the Oireachtas over the past two years and, indeed, by people working in addiction services, locally and nationally. Currently, the facility is closed and is hosting a social inclusion Covid isolation facility. I want to urge that the facility in question be moved elsewhere and that the service be reopened as a matter of urgency.

As the Taoiseach will be aware, there is an ongoing under-provision of drug rehabilitation beds. We know that one person dies as a result of addiction each day. Waiting times for residential care are very long, with people waiting months and sometimes, disgracefully, years.

Keltoi is the only trauma-informed facility of its kind in the State. It is the only residential rehabilitation facility run by the HSE. Its programme is gold standard. This is something that ought to be replicated, not hindered in any way. Its ongoing closure runs contrary to the HSE commitment to enhancing residential addiction services in the community healthcare organisation, CHO, of Dublin north city. I ask the Taoiseach to give a commitment today to investigate this matter with the explicit purpose of securing a reopening date for Keltoi as soon as possible.

Deputy Boyd Barrett raised issues in terms of health. He stated that there has been a chronic lack of resourcing and referred to difficulties recruiting. The Deputy said that nobody wants to work in the service. There are 132,000 people working in the service. Since 2022, there has been record recruitment to the health service of 12,500 net and 32,000 gross. It must be remembered that there are people leaving at different times due to retirement, etc. In order to stand still, the HSE has to recruit 9,500 staff each year. It is not true to say that nobody wants to work in the health service. The numbers are increasing every year. That is the right way to do it. The service is vast.

Likewise, the level of investment has gone up significantly. It increased by billions of euro in the past number of years, particularly in the past two years, in terms of significant funding gone into the base of the HSE to provide additional services. Reforms are happening also in respect of primary care and community care. Home care packages have gone up by 2.7 million hours. Some 55,000 families are now being provided with home care packages. That is a dramatic increase from previous years. The Deputies should acknowledge that.

There are challenges and there are pressures, particularly in emergency departments, which are a legacy of emerging from Covid - delayed diagnosis, people not presenting during Covid, elective care being cancelled during Covid and diagnostics being cancelled. Unfortunately, all that will have an impact over the next 12 months. What clinicians are saying is that over 75-year-olds who are presenting are more ill than would have been the case prior to Covid. These are challenges we have to deal with.

Clinicians are responsible for treatment in terms of prescribing. That much is clear. Where there are junior doctors in position, there should be proper clinical oversight in respect of that. That was not the case from the evidence presented by the independent review of south Kerry CAMHS. Fundamentally, clinicians have their chain of accountability too in terms of the Medical Council and they are responsible for the prescription policy and the treatment of individuals. Every individual is different, and every case can be different.

Deputy Paul Murphy raised Covid-19 and the hospitalisation of zero to four-year-olds. I spoke to the Chief Medical Officer this morning. He is very clear that as far as he is concerned, there has been a stabilisation overall in terms of hospitalisation. We did not specifically discuss children. He said the conversion is not there at the moment to ICUs or more generally in terms of hospitalisation. We are basically where NPHET was hoping to be when we lifted restrictions some weeks ago. The CMO is reasonably satisfied with the continuing progress we are making in regard to Covid-19. That will inform NPHET's decisions in terms of advice that it will give to the Government in respect of mask-wearing more generally and in schools.

I would draw a distinction between public health guidance and advice, and that which is mandatory. That is an important point. What has to be assessed is whether there is justification for a legal, mandatory framework, which makes it a legal requirement to wear masks. That is an issue on which NPHET will advise the Government in the coming days. The Government will take decisions based on that. That is the up-to-date position I have received from the Chief Medical Officer. I will revert to him on the inquiry in respect of children and ask what the position is, as outlined by Deputy Paul Murphy.

In response to Deputy Kelly's points, a new plan will be announced on waiting lists. The short-term plan prior to Christmas had an impact. It brought down the list by about 6% and then Omicron had its impact in terms of December and January. It is both a plan for 2022 and a multi-annual plan. Some €350 million is being provided this year in respect of the plan. The HSE will be funded to recruit as many staff as it possibly can. The indications are that it would be realistic to definitely be able to net 5,500 staff for 2022. If the HSE can do more, it will be provided with funding to do more.

I take Deputy Kelly's point on HPV screening and vaccination. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan raised HPV vaccination for young people with me yesterday. We are following that up to make sure it is as comprehensive as it can be. That is a very important piece of work.

Deputy Barry raised the issue of consultation, which I have dealt with. There has been consultation right through in respect of Covid-19 and schools. The Minister for Education has always taken public health advice on board in respect of schools. She has been very consistent on that principle and will follow that. She has always engaged with stakeholders in respect of school policies around Covid. As we saw this morning, we have different perspectives in the House on the issue.

Deputy McDonald spoke about the rehabilitation unit in the Phoenix Park that is closed. I will engage with the HSE in regard to that but, again, I do not get involved in operational decisions that the HSE takes in respect of particular facilities. I presume she has raised the issue with the HSE, and it has stated reasons for doing what it is doing but I will raise the fact that it was raised in the Dáil by the Deputy.

Cabinet Committees

Alan Kelly

Question:

17. Deputy Alan Kelly asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality will next meet. [5964/22]

Mary Lou McDonald

Question:

18. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality will next meet. [6124/22]

Matt Carthy

Question:

19. Deputy Matt Carthy asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality last met and will next meet. [6690/22]

Seán Haughey

Question:

20. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality is next due to meet. [6692/22]

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

Question:

21. Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality is next due to meet. [6693/22]

Niamh Smyth

Question:

22. Deputy Niamh Smyth asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality is next due to meet. [6694/22]

Cian O'Callaghan

Question:

23. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality will next meet. [8109/22]

Mick Barry

Question:

24. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality will next meet. [8388/22]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 17 to 24, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality oversees implementation of programme for Government commitments in the areas of social policy, including sport, arts and culture, equality, including children and youth affairs, and public services, including matters relating to justice, policing reform and community safety.

The Cabinet committee last met on 25 November 2021 and will meet again in the coming weeks. I have regular engagements with Ministers at Cabinet and individually to discuss priority issues relating to their Departments. In addition, a number of meetings have been held between my officials and officials from relevant Departments on various social policy issues since the establishment of the Cabinet committee in July 2020.

Last month, the Taoiseach announced that the Department of Justice will assume overall responsibility for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, DSGBV, services and policy. I understand the Minister brought a memorandum to the Cabinet this week on the very long-awaited Tusla review of the provision of accommodation for victims of domestic violence. Will the Tusla report be published this week, as committed to by the Taoiseach at his recent meeting with the Opposition?

The Taoiseach has also committed his office to playing a key role in ensuring all Departments deliver on their domestic, sexual and gender-based violence commitments and that the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality would be utilised in this regard. However, the Taoiseach's Department has no specific provision in its annual budget allocation for DSGBV and the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality met just twice in 2020 and only once last year. Without a specific budget allocation, allocation of officials or an active Cabinet committee, it is very difficult to see how the Taoiseach's office will have the dedicated focus required.

We know from Government leaks to the media this week that the Minister for Justice also briefed the Cabinet on her plans to establish a new statutory agency to oversee the State's response to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. The Minister believes it will take between 18 and 24 months to put this agency on a statutory footing.

The Deputy is over time.

I will finish now. Could the Taoiseach clarify the purpose of this agency and give some reassurance about addressing the chronic shortage of refuges and that the funding of services will not be delayed by its establishment?

I wish to raise the need to establish a public inquiry into the death of Shane O'Farrell. A scoping exercise was ordered, but three years later the family are being told of extension after extension. Shane's mam contacted me this week to ask for help, so I ask for the Taoiseach's support for a public inquiry to be set up.

I too wish to raise domestic violence. I welcome Tusla's publication of the review of the accommodation for victims of domestic violence. I am very happy to see the engagement with local authorities, Departments and State agencies. Carlow was mentioned as a particular priority in the Tusla report.

I have reached out to stakeholders, and I spoke to a lot of agencies this morning and it is clear that we need a timescale. My understanding is that timelines will be given in April as well as action plans and targets. All the Departments, agencies and local authorities must work closely on the issue. Timing is of the essence for Carlow in particular and it is important to bear in mind the urgent need for a women's refuge there.

Why did the State agree to sell 22 acres of Coillte land at Ballymartle Forest in Riverstick, County Cork to private interests? Does the Taoiseach accept that the State needs to rapidly expand its forest lands, rather than selling them off to the private sector? I congratulate the local campaigners whose highlighting of this issue has persuaded Coillte to pause the sale to allow for more public consultation, but is the sale already, effectively, a done deal? After all, Coillte has erected a "sale agreed" sign. Is this consultation for real or is it a sham? Will the Taoiseach voice his support for the local people who are campaigning to keep this land in public ownership?

There are many instances that demonstrate that the equality for people with disabilities to which we signed up with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, UNCRPD, is not being delivered.

There is one that I want to draw to the Taoiseach's attention and that I ask the Government to address as a matter of urgency. Many people who have mobility problems or who are in wheelchairs simply cannot access the existing public transport system. Bus, DART and train services are not suitable for their wheelchairs so they have to rely on essentially voluntary clubs, that is if they exist, such as ACTS, which I brought up with the Taoiseach before and there is a similar organisation in Cork city. Those door-to-door services essentially have to fundraise themselves. They get bits of money here and there from this or that Department, but they get no money from the Department of Transport. People's bus passes, which are no good to them because they cannot use mainstream public transport, do not apply to these door-to-door services so they have to pay quite significant sums of money to access public transport. The Department of Transport gives no funding whatsoever to these door-to-door services. That is a lack of equality for people who are particularly impacted by disability. I think their bus passes should fund their use of these door-to-door transport services rather than relying on voluntary funding. That is what equality demands. I ask the Taoiseach to address that.

I want to raise with the Taoiseach the case of Tommy Dickson. Tommy is a six-year-old who attends junior infants in Gaelscoil na Giúise in Firhouse. He has a very rare, life-limiting mitochondrial disease. As a consequence, he needs assistance to go to the toilet. When he moves around, he is at risk of falling and hurting himself because of co-ordination and balance issues, so he needs assistance and support with that. He suffers from a significant visual impairment so he needs to be supported in the use of technology but also in moving around and in social interactions, and he needs support to ensure that he eats an adequate amount at break and at lunchtime while in school.

All of his clinicians and therapists agree that he needs a full-time SNA and they have all been advocating for him. Unfortunately, the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, does not agree. It says the school has to make do with one SNA between Tommy and six other students. It is shocking. He needs this support to be able to function yet the school and the parents are repeatedly told that, no, they have to make do with one SNA between seven. It is scandalous. It is utterly unequal treatment for Tommy in terms of what he needs to be able to perform at school. Will the Taoiseach intervene? Will the Department intervene to avoid the family having to fight this out, to go public, to have me speak about it in the Dáil, to go to the media and to go down the legal route, all to get what Tommy just deserves as a basic right?

I thank the Deputies for raising a range of issues with me. Deputy McDonald referred to domestic violence and the violence against women policy. The publication of the Tusla review will be this week and it is my understanding that the Minister is intent on doing that. There will be a joint delivery board chaired by the Secretary General of my Department and the Secretary General of the Department of Justice, and it will report to the Cabinet committee that we are discussing right now.

When the Deputy refers to a specific budget, there are staff that deal with this whole area in the social policy division and the funding is there for them to do work on this. They will be working in other areas as well and that is normal within the Department of the Taoiseach. Some areas get dealt with and are then concluded, but the funding necessary will be there to carry out the work of the unit within my Department to make sure the timelines, the commitments and the strategy are delivered.

The Minister is going out again to do further consultation. I anticipate the strategy will be ready sometime in April. The Minister wants to talk again to the NGOs and the organisations in respect of the strategy itself. In terms of the agency and the following meetings we have had, the conclusion is that a specific agency would be the best way to pull the different strands of decision together to enable a comprehensive, cohesive and coherent approach to be taken in providing both policy – obviously, the Minister will provide the policy - and the wraparound supports and procurement of refuge spaces and places. There will be a full and comprehensive approach, given the need to pull together different strands and different areas of responsibility into one agency. There is a lot of merit in that, given the issues that have to be addressed, and they need to make progress on that.

In the interim, as I said earlier to other Deputies, it is very important that we move on the refuge places issue and that we work with local authorities and local stakeholder groups to progress that. Deputy Murnane O'Connor met with stakeholders in Carlow. Again, if proposals can come from Carlow, we will respond in respect of developing refuge places there with the local authority and through the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage.

In regard to Judge Haughton’s final report on the scoping exercise, I recognise the ongoing pain and anguish of the O'Farrell family. Many Deputies have raised with me the tragic death of Shane and we very deeply sympathise with the family on their loss. Judge Haughton has been conducting a scoping exercise into the tragic circumstances surrounding Shane's death. He furnished an interim report to the then Minister for Justice in November 2019 in which he stated he would not restrict or limit Shane's family in their submissions to him or the nature or extent of the documentation they wish to furnish to him and his scoping exercise. The judge is completely independent in conducting this scoping exercise, so it is not open to me or the Minister to comment on any aspect of the judge’s work or the process of compiling the final report. The Department maintains regular contact with the judge and has assured him that any assistance that he requires to complete his final report will be made available.

I am informed that Judge Haughton has most recently sought comments on various sections of his draft report from the parties named in it, including the Department of Justice, and the Department has duly responded to his request. I also understand that Judge Haughton has been in touch with the O'Farrell family regarding this matter. Following receipt of a response from all relevant parties, it is understood that Judge Haughton will be in a position to finalise his report. As I said, the Department of Justice will continue to provide all necessary assistance to the judge.

I look forward to receiving the final report. The process has taken a long time, which we regret, but the judge is doing all he can to ensure that the concerns which the family have raised with him during the process are followed through to the greatest extent possible. We will take it from there when that report is published.

Deputy Barry raised the issue of the Coillte land at Ballymartle. I said previously in the House that Coillte has a particular mandate right now, and commercial is one part of it in terms of making ends meet. Personally and policy-wise, I am of the view that we have to move to a situation where all State bodies must lead on climate change. Afforestation is key to that and the retention of trees is key to that as well. Deputies have raised the considerable concern of people living in the area to retain what is a very important residential amenity. The issue will continue to be pursued.

Deputy Boyd Barrett raised the issue of mobility. There is a review under way at the moment within the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. The whole mobility allowance issue arose because of an Ombudsman's report back in 2013, when that scheme was taken out and no replacement scheme came in. There is an issue around the cost of disability report. All of that is now being considered by an interdepartmental group. The Deputy made a reasonable point in terms of groups like ACTS, those voluntary organisations which provide door-to-door transport services for people with disabilities. I will speak to the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, in respect of that and I will also talk to the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth in terms of what can be done.

Deputy Paul Murphy raised the case of Tommy Dickson, who is looking for a full-time SNA. He has a rare, life-limiting mitochondrial condition, as the Deputy outlined. Again, I am not clear as to why the NCSE has decided not to allocate but I will raise this issue with it.

Is féidir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scríofa ar www.oireachtas.ie.
Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website.
Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 2 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 3 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 2 p.m. and resumed at 3 p.m.
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