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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 2 Mar 2022

Vol. 1019 No. 1

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Energy Policy

I am grateful to the Office of the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this Topical Issue matter. It has been an important matter over many years, but over the past six days it has become even more important in the context of the geopolitical issues occurring in Ukraine. I wish to take this opportunity to express my complete revulsion and outrage at what has been done by Russian forces to the people of Ukraine over the past six days and express my solidarity with every man, woman and child in Ukraine. I hope that the glorified spy ring on Orwell Road known as the Russian Embassy, which I am sure is listening to what is being said this morning, as it is every day, will very soon get its marching orders out of this country never to come back.

I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House and appreciate him for being here. However, it is unfortunate that the Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan, is not here to take this matter because our energy security is something of utter importance right now and in the short, medium and long terms. Throughout Europe, countries have in the past six days pivoted in their position on energy security and changed their policies. In Germany, the Green Party is in government and a decision was made in recent days to build liquified natural gas, LNG, terminals. Issues that were not even on the table this time last week are now being considered and decisions are being made to change policy because of the over-reliance on gas coming from Russia and the time it will take to provide alternatives. People are now starting to think realistically and transition to renewable sources of energy that we all know are needed in the future. There is time in the middle and a period during which I am afraid that the lights will go out. I am very concerned that our only policy in this country for that transitional period seems to be one of complete denial and that we are, in effect, going to hope for the best and hope that the lights do not go out.

We have had many amber alerts regarding energy supply in recent times, before the appalling situation in eastern Europe kicked off. What do we think is going to happen in the future? This is something that is, as I said, of critical importance to our entire country and everybody on the island, yet our policy of denial is something that I feel will not work in the future. I do not believe that a Joe Jacob-style policy of handing a candle out to every household in case the lights go out, like the iodine tablets years ago - something we might need again - is enough. We need something more concrete. An application is currently up for a decision regarding the building of an LNG terminal on the Shannon estuary. This is an opportunity for Ireland to try to safeguard some of our national energy security, yet we have a stick our head in the sand approach from Government, as far as I can see, regarding what we need do to keep the lights on in this country. We all want to move to renewables, but that is not simple and cannot be done overnight. The misinformation and twist being put on the Shannon LNG application, which involves overlooking the renewable and transitionary elements of the application and its compatibility with future technologies, is concerning. I would appreciate a response from the Minister of State regarding whether those issues can be addressed.

I thank Deputy Griffin for raising this very important issue around energy security and policy. I apologise on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Ryan, who could not be here today.

At the outset, I wish to reiterate that the Government continues to stand in full solidarity with the people of Ukraine and our EU partners. Our support for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity remains unwavering. We stand with the people of Ukraine and will work with the EU to provide continued support. Let me condemn the outrageous actions of Russia and Belarus in their aggression in Ukraine.

This crisis has brought into sharp focus the reliance of the EU and Ireland on fossil fuel imports. We must continue to accelerate the clean energy transition, focusing on energy efficiency and renewable energies. The European Commission is working closely with member states to protect the resilience and security of Europe's gas supply. The Commission is also actively engaging with other countries to ensure a sufficient and timely supply of natural gas to the EU from diverse sources across the globe to avoid supply shocks, including those that could result in disruptions.

Natural gas continues to flow and be traded normally, albeit at high prices. Lessons have been learned since the Russian gas crisis of 2006-2009, including the adoption of an improved internal energy market in the European Union. Ireland sources roughly one-quarter of its gas from the Corrib gas field and three quarters via the UK. The UK's gas supply comes mainly from indigenous supplies via pipelines from Norway and through imports of LNG. In addition, the UK also imports via two gas interconnectors connecting the UK to Belgium and the Netherlands. The UK and Ireland have far less reliance on Russian gas than other European countries.

An analysis of the potential impact of a partial or complete curtailment of Russian pipeline gas supplies to Europe indicates that, in the unlikely event of a disruption to Russian supplies, the result would be manageable for Europe. Ireland is a member of the International Energy Agency, IEA, and is in continuous consultation with our European and international partners to ensure energy security. Yesterday, the Minister, Deputy Ryan, and his counterparts agreed to release 60 million barrels from oil reserves to show solidarity with Ukraine and help maintain stability in global oil supplies. This is only the fourth time in the IEA's history that it has agreed to a release of strategic reserves, which demonstrate the international community's commitment to maintaining stability in energy markets and solidarity with Ukraine.

Ireland holds 90 days demand of stock in oil, in line with its international commitments, and intends to participate in the action. Ongoing conflict in the Ukraine region is likely to maintain pressure on European gas prices, with knock-on effects on electricity prices.

Like Ireland, both the IEA and the EU have stressed that the current situation only further threatens our collective resolve to accelerate the clean energy transition in line with the European green deal.

The Minister of State has been sent in here to take this Topical Issue matter. I do not know why we have Topical Issue matters if the Ministers responsible do not show up. There is not really much point. I have been in the situation previously where I have had to answer for other Ministers in the Chamber. There is no point in me having a go at the Minister of State today. I would like to have had a decent discussion with the Minister to try to get to the bones of the issue, but unfortunately that has not happened. I do not know why the Minister is not here. I wish to make the point that the cheese has moved. In the last six days, things have changed. It is okay for the Government to change policy when matters of fundamental change occur outside of our control. Yet, from the response the Minister of State has given me, I am convinced that the heads are still very firmly buried in the sand and the sand has gone into the brain at this stage. Europe is so dependent on Russian gas that it is going to impact on this country. We need to have options and we need to be able to look at alternative sources while we get our act together in relation to renewable energy. As long as we continue to deny that and to ignore that reality, we are at risk of the lights going out. I raised the issue three months ago in this Chamber. The Minister, Deputy Ryan, was not available for questions on that occasion either. I told the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, not to blame the people of County Kerry or the rest of us if the lights go out. We have done everything that we can to try to progress the Shannon LNG proposal, for example. It has been going on for years now. I met the people of Ballylongford on Monday to discuss the issue again. There was hope that the Government would see sense. Now, we are getting the same drivel back from officials in the Department, who seem to be completely wagging the dog in relation to our energy policy. As far as I can see, they are people who are living in a bunker and do not have any cop on in relation to our energy security. I ask that this crazy policy is reviewed before the lights go out and before people are sitting the dark and the cold in this country because of Government inaction and its determination to ignore reality.

I thank the Deputy for raising the very important matter of Ireland's energy security following the invasion of Ukraine. I hear the Deputy's considered views and opinions. I will certainly bring them the Minister's attention. The best way to secure our energy needs is to continue to promote energy efficiency and renewable energy. The Climate Action Plan 2021 sets us on a pathway to reduce our reliance on imported fossil fuels dramatically by 2030. Measures include the following: aiming for up to 80% of our electricity to come from renewable sources by 2030, including an increased target of up to 5 GW of offshore wind, 8 GW from onshore wind and 1.5 GW to 2.5 GW from solar PV; 500,000 extra walking, cycling and public transport journeys per day by 2030; and an increase in the proportion of kilometres driven by passenger electric cars to between 40% and 45% by 2030, in addition to a reduction of 10% in kilometres driven by the remaining internal combustion engine cars.

IEA members hold emergency stockpiles of 1.5 billion barrels of oil. Yesterday's IEA announcement of an initial release of 60 million barrels, or 4% of that stockpile, is equivalent to 2 million barrels a day for 30 days. This sends a unified and strong message to global markets that there will be no shortfall in supplies as a result of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Any disruption of Russian gas supplies would maintain upward pressure on European gas prices with knock-on effects on electricity prices. In the unlikely event of any gas supply emergency, there is excellent co-operation between Irish and UK gas system operators. Gas Networks Ireland, GNI, is the designated national gas emergency manager appointed by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities. GNI prepares a natural gas emergency plan which sets out a detailed procedure for managing a network gas emergency and provides details on the role of GNI as the national gas emergency manager. In the medium to long term, the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications is carrying out a review of the security of energy supply of Ireland's electricity and natural gas systems, focusing on the period through to 2030 in the context of ensuring a sustainable pathway to net zero emissions by 2050.

Social Welfare Schemes

I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for selecting this matter. I appreciate the Minister of State being here to respond to the debate. For the record, I submitted the matter for the attention of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. I appreciate that the Government appears to operate on a silo basis. As a result of the problems that that gives rise to, we have a situation where after a very protracted and sometimes acrimonious issue with community employment, CE, supervisors who resorted to the intervention of the Labour Court, ultimately, a settlement was reached in respect of a financial arrangement on the retirement of CE supervisors, which is most welcome. What I am really asking for, in the context of this debate, is that Government joins the dots. There is no difference on the ground, in all practical reality, between the work that CE supervisors, Tús supervisors and rural social scheme supervisors do. I am sure the Minister of State will appreciate that. There is not a community in urban or rural Ireland that is not benefiting significantly from these interventions. I fail to see why we insist on differentiating between the arrangements for CE supervisors and Tús and rural social scheme supervisors when they retire. That is the problem. Ultimately, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform controls the purse strings. I appreciate that the Department of Social Protection is hands-on in terms of the day-to-day administration of these issues. However, as I said at the outset, we need to join the dots here. Otherwise, we will be dragged, kicking and screaming, to a resolution of this issue. It would be better to resolve the issue without resorting to that form of acrimony, that level of unnecessary engagement and a repetition of visitations to the Labour Court, which I am absolutely certain, because the circumstances are entirely the same, would result in the same judgment.

I would appreciate it if the Minister of State could consider the matter in detail. The amounts of money in the context of the overall budget of the Department are very small. As I said, there is no difference, in practice, between the work these people do in rural social schemes, Tús and CE schemes. It is the logical thing to do. I regret that the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform has done everything to duck, weave and avoid addressing this issue. I have attempted to submit several parliamentary questions on the issue to that Department on the basis that it ultimately controls the purse strings. I suspect the Minister may well tell me that notwithstanding his good intentions and wish to resolve this issue, he cannot do so. That is why I appeal to Government collectively to address this issue and join the dots. It will be solved and the dots will be connected, ultimately. Let us do it before we are dragged, kicking and screaming to do it.

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. At the outset, I want to acknowledge the excellent work that is done on the full range of schemes, including the community employment, Tús and rural social schemes, supported by my Department, and the contribution that these schemes and their workers make to communities across the country. Work schemes, such as Tús and the community employment scheme, are positive initiatives that enable the long-term unemployed to make a significant contribution to their communities while upskilling themselves for prospective future employment. The rural social scheme, RSS, provides farmers and fishers with income support while continuing to work in the area of farming or fishing and also make a contribution to their community. At present, there are more than 10,000 places available on Tús and the RSS, with a budget of over €160 million available to support the schemes in 2022.

As the Deputy will be aware, the Department of Social Protection sponsors and funds these schemes that are delivered by independent bodies. While the Department funds participant and supervisor wages, the Department is not the employer of any scheme participants, their supervisors or team leaders. Furthermore, the State is not responsible for funding pension arrangements for employees of private companies, even where the companies in question are reliant on State funding. Pension arrangements are a matter to be agreed between employees and their employers.

All employers, including the rural social scheme and Tús implementing bodies, are legally obliged to offer access to at least one standard personal retirement savings account under the Pensions (Amendment) Act 2002.

Community employment supervisors and assistant supervisors have been seeking the implementation of a 2008 Labour Court recommendation relating to the provision of a pension scheme for a number of years. Discussion had been ongoing for several years through their union representatives to reach an agreement and to have Exchequer funding allocated for this purpose. The discussions that led to the agreement were held in the clear knowledge and agreement of all involved that they related solely to those parties who were the subject of the 2008 Labour Court recommendation, namely, community employment supervisors and assistant supervisors, and that any agreement reached arising from these discussions would apply only to those parties. The Deputy will be aware that a settlement was recently reached on this issue when the unions involved confirmed acceptance on 23 December 2021 of the ex gratia payment. That settlement will now benefit more than 2,200 people who employed by community employment schemes since 2008. The settlement is estimated to have a total cost of over €24 million.

Under the terms of this settlement, upon reaching retirement age, community employment supervisors and assistant supervisors will receive a once off ex gratia payment for time employed by community employment schemes since 2008. People who have retired since 2008 will be able to apply for payments immediately when the scheme is in place. The Department is now working to put in place the administrative arrangements to implement the agreed settlement so that payments will issue to qualified community employment workers this year.

The discussions leading to this agreement were held in the context of a specific Labour Court recommendation, dating back to 2008. This was acknowledged by all participants in the discussions and so the specific agreement referred to by the Deputy is framed in that context and cannot extend to any other workers.

The Department of Social Protection did not distinguish itself in helping with this issue between 2008 and the recent resolution of the problem for community employment supervisors. Of course, the deal was confined to those in the room, which included the Department of Social Protection, the community employment supervisors and their representatives. We are talking about the people who were locked out of the room, including the Tús supervisors and the rural social scheme supervisors. I am sure the Minister of State acknowledges that those people do the exact same work as community employment scheme supervisors. Notwithstanding the fact that the 2008 Labour Court recommendation was specifically about community employment scheme supervisors, does the Minister of State accept that the people to whom that Labour Court recommendation applies do the exact same work as employees or supervisors of the Tús and rural social schemes?

For God's sake, will the Minister of State avoid this circuitous journey to a resolution? This issue will be resolved because it is the right thing to do. It is €24 million out of multiple billions of overall expenditure in the Minister of State's Department, which is not a lot of money. These people do invaluable work. I know the Minister of State accepts that and that his Department would like to resolve this issue. Can we end the silo mentality in the Government that states we cannot sit around the table, join the dots, accept the logic of the settlement and extend it to those Tús and rural social scheme supervisors? It is the right thing to do. I know the Minister of State and the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, know it is the right thing to do. Can we have proper engagement with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and have this sanctioned?

I thank Deputy Creed for raising this matter and for highlighting the work that is done by all these schemes. The schemes are different.

Not the work they do.

That is not to put a different value on anything. They are all extremely valuable. Tús was originally a one-year programme.

Not for the supervisor.

The rural social scheme is an income support measure. It does not have a training element, to make a slight distinction. It may look as if they are identical from the outside, but they are not. They are all of equal and high value. The Deputy knows I place a huge emphasis on the importance of such schemes. I have visited many community employment, Tús and rural social schemes over the past number of months, speaking with participants, supervisors and implementing bodies. I am fully aware of the important work that they carry out in the community.

I have seen first hand the great work that is being carried out, providing valuable services to the vulnerable members of our communities, in keeping our towns and villages looking so well, and in helping to protect the environment. The agreement that the Deputy refers to was entered into in the knowledge that it would pertain only to community employment supervisors and assistant supervisors. The focus for the Department at present remains on putting the administrative processes in place that will ensure that payments issue to those supervisors identified by the Labour Court as being entitled to receive them. Both the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and I are fully aware that all schemes make a valuable contribution to communities through the provision of services and my Department will continue to support them to do this.

Special Educational Needs

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for facilitating the discussion of this important local issue, which is also relevant for schools across the country. The news last night that the early intervention class in Kilbrittain National School will not close is very welcome. I cannot emphasise that enough. It is down to the dedicated parents and staff who understand the value of early intervention autism spectrum disorder classes. They are essential classes for children aged three to five. However, this case also reveals a worrying dimension to special needs education. First, the entire situation in Kilbrittain was of the National Council for Special Education's making. It closed the class, leading to additional stress for parents and disruption to school life, as well as taking up time that the principal and staff could otherwise have spent with students. It is now clear that the NCSE can, without engagement, just remove a vital service. The need for the class in Kilbrittain was never in doubt. The school had the staff, space and students enrolled. Nonetheless, a vital service for children with additional needs can be removed just like that. If the NCSE had engaged with the school in the first place, all of this would have been avoided.

Second, and most worryingly, it appears that Kilbrittain is not an isolated case. Indications from the NCSE reveal an agenda to potentially phase out early intervention classes in favour of the access and inclusion model, AIM. AIM is a welcome development, but it cannot in any way replace early intervention classes. The NCSE has repeatedly refused to clarify whether or not this is its policy. It has mostly ignored the question, but when it was pressed in a public meeting, it stated it did not want to comment and that it is waiting for the finding of an AIM report, which would lead us to worry or believe that this is being seriously considered or, worryingly, it has already been decided, and that it is potentially pre-judging the findings of that report, with Kilbrittain being the first casualty. Will the Minister assure us that they will not be phased out and replaced with AIM and explain why the NCSE does not liaise with schools before making decisions?

Last night, we received the fabulous news that the early intervention pre-school class at Kilbrittain National School will remain open for the forthcoming academic year. This is unbelievably important for this community. My colleague is right to thank and acknowledge the incredibly hard work of the principal, staff, parents and the entire community of Kilbrittain who fought for this. I also acknowledge the intervention of the Minister's Department. I was delighted to receive correspondence from the Minister's office last night confirming that the class would reopen. That intervention is appreciated. Parents and children should not have to fight for these incredibly important services. The early intervention pre-school class is an effective model that should be expanded and rolled out nationally. I would like the Minister's Department, and the NCSE, which the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, has responsibility for, to take that on.

The issue with Kilbrittain has certainly been resolved for next year, but I have to take this opportunity to raise another school's special needs education where children with autism are involved. I never thought I would be saying this in 2022.

Ballydehob national school is undertaking its own fundraising drive in order to pay for an extra special needs assistant, SNA. It should not happen that it falls to a community and a gentleman - Mr. Barry O'Brien in this case, who is probably best known for arranging the famous turnip racing festival in Ballydehob - to organise a tractor and vintage run in order to fund an SNA allocation for children who need it. The school has been through two appeals and the request has been turned down twice. I would love it if the Minister could consider the matter and intervene.

It is a serious matter but it is not related to the issue that was selected.

I thank the Deputies for raising this matter as it gives me the opportunity to outline the current position on the provision for children with special educational needs, including autism. Enabling children with special educational needs to receive an education appropriate to their needs is an ongoing priority for this Government. This year the Department of Education will invest in excess of €2 billion, or over 25% of the Department's budget, in the area of special educational needs support. As a result, the number of special education teachers, special needs assistants and special classes and school places are at unprecedented levels. Since 2011, the number of special classes in mainstream schools has increased from 548 to a current total of 2,148 for the 2021-22 school year. Of these, almost 1,900 special classes cater for students with autism.

Recognising some of the difficulties experienced by parents in securing appropriate school placements throughout 2020 and 2021, my Department and the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, have worked closely on a more streamlined and joined-up planning process that has ensured a targeted approach to meet demand for special needs placements ahead of each new school year. I am satisfied this approach is delivering and this intensive intervention has seen the addition of 300 special classes, providing 1,800 new places that have already been opened nationwide for the 2021-22 school year.

The Department recognises that where parents have difficulties in securing an appropriate school placement for their child, particularly a child with additional needs, it can most certainly be a stressful experience. The Department is working hard to ensure there are sufficient school places appropriate to the needs of all children available on a timely basis nationwide. On Cork specifically, there is currently a network of 357 special classes, of which 309 are special classes for children with autism. Of those 309 special classes for children with autism, 228 are at primary level, including 21 early intervention classes, with 81 at post-primary level. A total of 45 new special classes have been established in Cork for the 2021-22 school year.

It is important to point out that the early childhood care and education, ECCE, programme provides up to two years of preschool within the eligible age range without charge. The access and inclusion model, AIM, introduced in 2016, enables the full inclusion and meaningful participation of children with disabilities and additional needs in the ECCE programme. The goal is to create a more inclusive environment in preschool so all children, regardless of ability, may benefit from quality early learning and care. The model achieves this by providing universal supports to preschool settings and targeted supports focusing on the needs of the individual child. A diagnosis of autism is not required to access AIM support but preschool children with a diagnosis are generally supported in mainstream preschools, with additional supports provided through AIM where required.

The NCSE sanctions the establishment of special classes, including autism spectrum disorder early intervention classes, where there is an identified need. I understand that, on occasion, early intervention classes are redesigned as school-age special classes to reflect the changing age profile of students. Kilbrittain National School currently has an enrolment of 205 students and the school, in conjunction with the NCSE, agreed that whereas an early intervention class could be opened, it would be redesignated as a primary school special class in September 2022 to meet the projected demand for places in the area. It was further noted the class would cater for the children enrolled in the early intervention class should they continue to require a special class place for primary education.

On 10 February the school engaged with the NCSE on the emerging need for the retention of the early intervention class in the school and requested that the class be retained. The NCSE has now reviewed the matter and approval has been given to the school for the retention of the early intervention class for the 2022-23 school year. In addition, a new special class is being opened by the school to cater for children transitioning from this year's early intervention class. This decision was taken following consideration of the needs in the area and the capacity of the school to make the additional provision.

I appreciate that more resources overall are being put into special education but unless that results in support on the ground, they are meaningless. The larger point remains that decisions are being made by the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, on behalf of schools and not with them. We all know staff and parents are the experts on local conditions and the needs of children and they should be at the centre of the process, or at least part of it, and currently they are not.

I will ask the questions again if that is okay. Will the Minister commit to changing that process? Is there a move from the NCSE and the Department of Education to phase out early intervention classes in favour of the access and inclusion model, AIM? Is that the report that is currently under way? The question has not been answered. I put in questions to the Department and the NCSE but I do not get a reply. The disability committee has asked the question but still has not received a reply. The only time we see a response is when the media put in the question but the answer is avoided in this case and Kilbrittain school is referenced on its own. That is very important but people need to know if this is a national policy. Was there prejudgment of the AIM report in deciding to close the resource at Kilbrittain? The Minister has stated this is based on need in an area but how could that happen in Kilbrittain when students were enrolled, staff were in place and accommodation was there for the following year? It does not make sense. This is the reality that parents are experiencing.

I thank the Minister again for her response on behalf of the school and the community and for her intervention in this regard and ensuring the class remains open. There is also the extra special needs class allocation, which means the pupils in the current preschool early intervention class have a special needs provision.

This has shed light, I suppose, on the overall matter of a lack of SNA provision in particular in the west Cork area, particularly in and around Skibbereen. I do not expect the Minister to know each of these cases individually but I have written to the Minister of State, Deputy Josepha Madigan, about them. I speak about some schools in the Skibbereen area, including Coronea National School and Dreeny National School, which only has 0.5 of an allocation for four children with high needs. There is also Schull National School, which has seven children with very high needs, and St. Joseph's National School in Skibbereen, which has a class with pupils with profound needs. The NCSE is getting this wrong time and again and its approach must change.

I thank both Deputies and appreciate them raising this matter. It is important to put on record the commitment of this Government to special education. It is worth noting that 25% of our budget, as I outlined earlier, is dedicated to special education, which is correct. That is a budget of €2 billion. It is also important to note that considerable progress has been made in the past number of years in the provision of special education classes. We can very clearly say that budget 2022 provided for the creation of 287 additional special classes for the 2022-23 school year, which will provide over 1,700 new places. This means for the 2022-23 school year, there will be a provision of 2,435 special classes, which is significant progress in a short period. I acknowledge most sincerely that further work must be done.

On the provision of early intervention, I want to be very clear that the request from the school was received by the Department on 10 February; the acknowledgement from the school that its view was that there was an appropriate opportunity for the early intervention class to continue. On 1 March it was communicated that the early intervention class would continue in the school, that it would be retained, and that provision would be made for a new special class to be opened by the school to cater for children transitioning from this year's early intervention class. That speaks volumes about the proactive nature of the process, the determination and the recognition of where there is a need, early intervention classes will be put in place. Where there is a need for children to progress from the early intervention class, that will also be catered for. That is important and we must have a focus on children not just being put into classes but having a facility to progress to meet their future needs. That is being provided for.

Thank you, Minister. We are over the allocated time.

On the question of SNA provision, we have had record allocation of SNAs at 19,000, with 1,000 added in the past budget and 1,000 in the previous budget. We will continue to grow that provision.

I am really sorry but we now have ten minutes left for a 12-minute slot so we will be in trouble.

Mental Health Services

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for selecting this issue for debate. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, for being here.

In many HSE documents we see the mantra the "right care", the "right place", the "right time". In County Meath it does not happen. We are aware that there is an intent in acute services to close the ICU and emergency department at Our Lady's Hospital, Navan. We are at the bottom of the list or very close to it for primary care and disability services, GP services or the head of population services, children's services, occupational therapy, physiotherapy, psychology services and on the topic we are to discuss today, namely, mental health services. I draw the Minister of State's attention to the vacancy for a suicide resource officer, for example. This post has been vacant for longer than other vacancies in any other part of the country, since February 2020. Also in this context, with day services we have a failure by the HSE to deliver appropriate physical space to deliver services. As a result, we do not have the services delivered. For those small number of people who are receiving services, they are stressed and anxious that the service will be cancelled at short notice. A huge swathe of people who otherwise would have received services are not getting those services. Active day hospital services are not happening, there is no group work, therapy or assessments. These services would have been dealing with 70 people a day, and it is not happening. We want to hear from the Minister of State what the plan is for the physical space and for the services.

I thank the Minister of State for making herself available for this issue. We are talking about the day hospital services for mental health in Navan, which as Deputy O'Rourke has said, provided group therapy, individual therapy, assessments, and a clozapine clinic. Unfortunately, only part of this is happening at this point in time. Before March 2020, this was happening properly and was fully functional. The fact is that we did not have the same pressure then in Meath as those on the services at the department of psychiatry in Crosslanes, which is under severe pressure. Louth and Meath have very low provision of beds. I am led to believe that it is around 14.2 beds per 100,000 people. The State average is in the 20s and the EUROSTAT average in 2018 was 34 beds per hundred thousand. It is very far from the number in Germany which is 128 beds per 100,000 or in Belgium at 135 beds per 100,000 people. We do not have the service that is required.

I have particular issues around the protocols and resources for the Drogheda department of psychiatry at Crosslanes. We had a service that was working and, to a degree, was replacing the need for people to possibly go into hospital. This is not the case. We have had a building that was handed over for Covid around March 2020. It was sought back around August and a promise was made of a modular build. That modular build later became a block build and it was delivered late in 2021. There was a fire in the old part of the hospital and the two parts that have been given to mental health services are not fit for purpose. Electricity is not working and there is no heating. The clozapine clinic for people who are treatment resistant is operating as a clinic in the cold and they are incredibly worried.

I thank the Deputies for raising this very important issue today. On Deputy O'Rourke's comments, I will check out the situation with the suicide resource officer post vacancy since 2020, and I will revert back to the Deputy on that. I do not have any detail on that today.

In relation to Meath mental health services, the HSE provides a wide range of services for adults, children and adolescents, and older people. These services are provided in various locations and settings and include community outpatient services provided by community mental health multidisciplinary teams, and approved centres and day centres, including Navan mental health day centre.

In 2020, use of the Navan mental health day hospital was required by Navan general hospital for Covid-19 purposes. This requirement continued longer than expected, as the pandemic wore on, leaving Meath mental health services without a day hospital. A longer-term solution was identified, which saw the day hospital move into a block-build construction extension to Our Lady's Hospital, Navan. This opened in October 2021 in line with Covid-19 restrictions and was gradually returning to full capacity with face-to-face therapies and assessments being carried out. Unfortunately, on 27 December, a fire broke out in an adjoining area to the day hospital, which rendered the building unsafe for use. Remedial works for the fire damage have taken considerable time to address and full safety clearance remains outstanding, though I am assured by the HSE that the clearance is imminent and the day hospital will reopen as soon as possible.

I note that patients of Meath mental health services continue to receive support and intervention from their local community mental health team. Also available are our online and telehealth services, many of which are available 24-7. Yourmentalhealth.ie provides an excellent information service and signposts to numerous NGO partners who provide specialist help on behalf of the HSE.

It is very disappointing that the centre has been closed, obviously because of Covid, and when it did manage to relocate and the service was up and running that this fire could have happened. There is more detail in the remainder of the script but as I understand that the Leas-Cheann Comhairle is under pressure for time, I will not read it into the record.

On bed capacity, we are currently carrying out a review of bed capacity throughout the whole country. Some 25% of our bed capacity is sourced from the private sector. This is never included in the figures that are used, which only show the public bed capacity. When this review is finalised it will provide great data for me to be able to see all over the country where there are issues.

I thank the Minister of State for her reply. I will point to one line that the Minister of State did read into the record which is "I am assured by the HSE that the clearance is imminent and the day hospital will reopen as soon as possible". I ask the Minister of State to take a personal interest in that to ensure that it happens as quickly as possible and that the services returned to full capacity.

I thank the Minister of State. We will all be very interested in the review around the bed capacity and where those weaknesses are that need to be addressed. As Deputy O'Rourke has said, there is a need for the Minister of State to take a look to ensure that the plan is for the day hospital to be provided with a sufficient amount of space to offer the services that are required, and so it means that we deal with the community care piece. We are also looking for day hospital services in Dundalk and Drogheda. This would mean we could have community capacity and it can alleviate the pressure on the acute hospitals, which we all accept are under pressure. Will the Minister of State give us an assurance that she is going to do the devil and all to make sure this happens?

I thank the Minister of State for her co-operation and she has a full two minutes remaining.

Not at all, I understand.

I know exactly where the two Deputies are coming from. Sharing the Vision, our new mental health policy, is all about support in the community including day hospitals, peer support, crisis cafes, which all play a hugely important role to allow people with mental health issues to live at home.

It was unfortunate, which is the only word I can use, that having been closed for so long due to Covid, when the service did reopen, a fire broke out in the adjoining area of the day hospital. This meant that the building was unsafe for use. Obviously, we were not in a position to put people into the day hospital then. I have visited day hospitals all over the country. They are very important and hugely supportive for people have mental health illness and challenges. I give both Deputies a commitment here today that I will keep a special eye on this to look at the time frame. All I want to do is have all of these facilities open to support people with their mental health.

The temporary closure of the Navan day hospital due to a fire outbreak is very unfortunate. It has impacted on our ability to provide the level of service we aspire to uphold. The Deputies will appreciate it was completely out of my control. The reduction in service has been difficult for individuals using the day hospital, but I assure the Deputies that every effort is being made. I am confident that services will resume fully in the near future. Go raibh maith agaibh. I will revert to the Deputies when I have more information.

I thank the Minister of State.

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