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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 7 Jul 2022

Vol. 1025 No. 2

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions

Student Accommodation

Rose Conway-Walsh

Question:

1. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the total number of higher education institution, HEI, student accommodation projects with planning permission; the steps he is taking to support these projects progressing to construction; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36672/22]

The next time the Minister will be before this House will likely be in October. At that stage, many students will be in the midst of what has become an annual student accommodation crisis. Will the Minister outline the total number of student accommodation projects with planning permission, particularly the college-led projects, and the steps he is taking to support these projects progressing to construction?

This is an important question on an important issue. We all know that we need to dramatically increase the supply of all types of housing and accommodation. This obviously has a direct impact on students. This is why, when the Government launched the Housing for All policy, which is led by my colleague, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, we set out a series of actions that will be delivered to address the housing crisis. This plan is backed by the largest housing budget in the history of our State to transform our housing system, with funding exceeding €20 billion.

Since I became Minister, I and my Department officials have been engaged intensively with the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage and his Department, the wider higher education sector and stakeholders on student accommodation issues in the context of overall housing policy. In a welcome development, my engagement with the sector has indicated that hundreds of additional bed spaces are to be made available by institutions for the start of the forthcoming academic year. We believe this figure to be in the region of 600. In addition, the major development of 674 extra bed spaces, which is under way at the National University of Ireland, NUI, Galway, is expected to be delivered later in the academic year. Therefore, while fully accepting the challenges that exist, and about which there is no doubt, we will be starting this college year with more college and student accommodation than we did last year, and with the additional 674 beds coming on board from NUI Galway later in the academic year.

We must do much more than that, however, and the Deputy’s question gets to the heart of the matter. Looking to the medium term and on the basis of the most recent data available to my Department, more than 40 separate, purpose-built student accommodation projects have been granted planning permission. Between them, they are capable of delivering approximately 10,500 bed spaces. Three of these projects relate to plans by HEIs. These are: University College Dublin, UCD, which has planning permission for 1,254 bed spaces; Dublin City University, DCU, which has planning permission for 1,234 bed spaces; and Maynooth University, which has planning permission for 117 bed spaces. What we must do now, though, and I have discussed this issue with the Deputy previously, is ensure that a model is in place that enables those developments that are ongoing to progress. I will have a chance to come back in again with another contribution shortly, but I will be updating the Cabinet committee on housing next week regarding this matter.

As the Minister outlined, many universities have student accommodation projects at various stages of planning and development. Many of these are shovel-ready. In my engagement with the universities and colleges, I have found that they are unable to progress these projects due to the relationship between project cost and what that means in respect of the rent that the colleges must charge students. In order to access loans, colleges must charge enough rent to repay those funds in a set timeframe. This means that as the construction costs for these projects go up, so do the amounts colleges have to charge in rent. I have no doubt but that the Minister is fully aware of that point. Projects are being shelved because colleges are, rightly, unwilling to advance those that will deliver accommodation at rent levels that are far too expensive for the majority of students. I am concerned that accommodation relating to those projects that have progressed will involve the payment of very high rents. We already have student accommodation in public universities that can cost up to €1,300 per month, which is scandalous considering the current economic climate.

There are a couple of elements to this issue. There is what can be done right now, immediately, for September. The factual answer to that is that hundreds more college and student accommodation beds will be open this September compared with last September. Another 674 bed spaces are coming on board through NUI Galway as well later in the college year. We must also be conscious of the rent-a-room scheme that is available. Last year, there was a bit of a perfect storm, if I may use that phrase, and understandably so with the prevalence of Covid-19 being so high. Many people who might previously have been happy to rent a room to a student, or anybody else, understandably did not want to take other people into their homes. There is obviously a situation where it is possible to rent out a room in one’s home and to earn an income of up to €14,000 tax-free. Several of the universities and colleges are working to promote that scheme in their localities. Technological University, TU, Dublin has actually created a register for people to express an interest in renting rooms. What we need to do, and what I am determined to do, is to come up with a model that unblocks the market failure in respect of larger-scale projects. That will require a public subvention, but in return for that subvention it will also be necessary to have an agreement and an understanding regarding an affordable rent.

Absolutely, that aspect has emerged in the conversations I have had with the representatives of the colleges and universities well. There will have to be conditions in respect of the affordability of accommodation. That can be done. Affordable accommodation is the biggest barrier to entering third level education today, and this is especially true for students from rural areas. A report undertaken by researchers at NUI Galway found that the average cost for the cheapest room in Irish university accommodation is considerably higher than in Britain and Europe or even up the road in Queen’s University Belfast or Ulster University. The Government estimated in its 2017 student accommodation strategy that every four students housed in student accommodation or digs would free up an additional housing unit in the private sector. Investment in student accommodation is vital for fair access to education, but it also has the potential to take the pressure off the private market. As the Minister said, we therefore need to be building accommodation of all kinds. I take from what the Minister has said that he is going to commit to capital funding for the colleges and universities to enable them to provide student accommodation.

I could come in here and bamboozle us with figures, but I do not think that would be terribly useful. Under the official student accommodation strategy, we are, from what I can see, either on or ahead of target. Approximately 25,770 bed spaces were either completed, under construction or had planning permission granted at the end of the fourth quarter of 2021. That kind of misses the point though, which is that we need a new model. I agree with the Deputy that we need a model that does ease concerns with affordability. We also need a model that is concerned with college-owned accommodation. We cannot be fully reliant on the private market in this area. I genuinely believe that. I want to see a model developed that has a required public subvention element to it. In return for that subvention, however, I want assurances in respect of the timescales for delivery and affordable rents. I cannot announce that model today. I am engaging with Government colleagues on this issue and I am due to update the Cabinet committee on housing shortly on this matter.

A final point I wish to make on this issue that I think will be useful, particularly since the Deputy is from the regions, is that we now have clarity regarding the borrowing framework for the TUs. There is much potential in that sector and I have made that clear to those universities. I will be writing to them all this week to make that clear to them. Those TUs can now access borrowing in the same way as traditional universities to enable them to build student accommodation.

Third Level Education

Richard Boyd Barrett

Question:

2. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the measures that he is putting in place to address student poverty; if he will consider introducing free public transport, investing in ensuring student accommodation is affordable and subsidising IT; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36967/22]

Following on neatly from the previous discussion, student poverty last year was rampant, with accommodation costs being a key element. Public transport costs and all the cost-of-living issues are now going to hit students. What is the Minister going to do about this? Will he consider bringing in free public transport for everybody in higher education? What are we going to do to bring down the cost of accommodation?

There should be subsidies for student accommodation.

Following the establishment of my Department, I, as Minister, have tried to place a focus on having an affordable higher and further education system and on what we can do to not only address the sustainable funding of the sector but also to reduce the cost to students and families. This is demonstrated by the broad range of initiatives we have introduced and are planning. For example, more than 43,600 students have already been approved, through the student grant scheme, for the college year starting in September 2022.

We also saw an important body of work done that was commissioned by the Department. The review of the Student Universal Support Ireland, SUSI, student grant scheme gave rise to a number of recommendations on issues including the rates of grant, income thresholds, eligibility criteria and postgraduate support. It is my intention to progress measures to reduce the cost of education for families and students through improvements to the student grant scheme. I am pleased to say that we have started that work. We made the first changes to SUSI undergraduate grant rates and eligibility thresholds in a decade, as well as changes to the non-adjacency rules to benefit students who are commuting. Another change we have introduced means students can now earn up to €6,552 during non-term time in 2022, without being concerned that it will affect their eligibility for a grant.

On 4 May, I launched the Funding the Future framework, which sets out how we intend to reduce cost as a barrier to education in the context of budgets. I want to see the student contribution in higher education reduced in a meaningful way.

On accommodation affordability, I have to some degree already outlined my answer to Deputy Conway-Walsh. We in this House have changed the law to make sure that a student cannot be asked to pay more than one month's rent and one month's deposit up front. Students were getting fleeced by being asked to pay four, five, or six months' rent up front in order to secure accommodation. I will be attending a meeting of the Cabinet committee on housing next week to discuss student accommodation.

We have provided laptops to disadvantaged students to help tackle the digital divide. It is expected that 20,000 students will receive a free laptop under the initiative. The Department of Transport has introduced a new youth travel card that will offer a 50% discount on fares across the public transport networks. The post-leaving certificate levy of €200 is being abolished from September 2022.

These are very small changes. We need to go a lot further. There needs to be a complete change of mindset. Accessing further and higher education should be seen in the same light as primary or secondary education. We want as many people to access further and higher education as possible, and we need to remove all barriers in order to facilitate that. We have the highest fees in Europe. They should be abolished. It is crazy to have registration fees. Only 30% of students benefit from grants.

Maybe it has gone up slightly, but the vast majority do not get grants. The new student accommodation being built on the UCD campus will cost students €1,400 to rent. Even as a temporary measure, all third level students should get the housing assistance payment, HAP. I do not really like HAP but at least it reduces the cost of rent. That is a temporary measure the Government could bring in for all third level students. Why do we not do what is being done in Germany, where public transport fares have been reduced by 90%? Could we not at least offer free public transport to all third level students or dramatically reduce the cost in the same way we have done for school-going students?

I accept that there is more we can do. However, I do not accept that everything we have done has been minor. The provision of free laptops has made a substantial difference according to the students I have heard from.

Up to 20,000 of the most disadvantaged students will receive them. I presume the Deputy would want me to target the most disadvantaged. A 50% reduction in the cost of public transport is a very big step forward brought in by my colleague, the Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan. We have abolished, in its entirety, the fee for post-leaving certificate courses from September 2022. Some students will also see their grants increase by between 20% and 33% as a result of the changes made to adjacency, but we need to do more.

I am encouraged by the fact that the summer economic statement refers to budget 2023 and nods clearly in the direction of measures that will need to be brought in with an immediate impact in 2022, when the budget is announced. I assure the Deputy that I have spelt out the policy direction I want to take in that regard, further improving student grants and trying to reduce the registration fee. I will be working with my Government colleagues to see what the package of additional supports for students and their parents and families in this calendar year will look like as part of that budgetary process.

Although the student unions do not have all the figures, I spoke to them this morning and they reckon that more people dropped out of college last year than ever before because of accommodation costs and the cost-of-living crisis. That is their estimate. In University College Cork last year, there were record numbers of students going to food banks at the beginning of term. Such were the numbers and so desperate were the students for food that, according to one report, all the food in the food bank was gone in 48 minutes. Imagine how much worse it will be with the cost-of-living crisis?

It is unacceptable that students are paying €1,000, €1,200, €1,400 in accommodation costs. It is madness to impose any transport costs on them. We want people to go to college. We should get rid of fees, full stop. There is no justification for having college fees. There are fees in private schools and in our two-tier education system, but we should not have fees at all for education, be it primary, secondary or third level.

I would not know about the private education system. The Deputy cannot come into the Chamber and mention figures or anecdotes that are not backed up by facts. He quoted a figure of 30%. I accept that he acknowledges this figure may not be accurate. A lot more than 30% of students received student grants. From my memory, the figure is up to 42%.

It is still a minority.

There is a pretty big difference between 30% and 42%.

We will check the figures.

I will provide them in writing as well as the figure for the number of students who did not complete third level education. I have no evidence, nor did the Higher Education Authority, HEA, provide me with any, to suggest an increase in the drop-out rate. We will look at the figures for that.

In the context of the cost-of-living pressures that people are facing, which I fully accept are a real issue, it is important that students know we have a student assistance fund, which the Deputy has not acknowledged. It contains more money than ever before. Some €18.5 million is available to students who are struggling to make ends meet or who have been represented with exceptional bills they were not expecting. That is available in addition to the SUSI student grant scheme. Let us be clear: I want to improve the grants and drive down the cost of fees, and I intend to be the first Minister in a long time to do both.

Third Level Costs

Rose Conway-Walsh

Question:

3. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the steps he is taking that will come into effect this upcoming academic year to support student and families with the rising cost of living; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36673/22]

This question is also about the cost of living and inflation in particular. This morning, the Central Bank said that inflation will peak in double digits. I am of the view that it will even go further than that. I welcome all the measures from last year that the Minister announced but we are not keeping up with where we need to be because all of that is eaten up by inflation. The Minister mentioned the fiscal space being available. What additional measures will be put in place from September?

The Deputy makes a fair point. We introduced a number of measures that she has acknowledged and welcomed. She also made the not unfair point that when a measure is introduced in the budget, a student or indeed anybody has to wait many months or until the next academic year to feel its impact. I am encouraged by the fact that with the publication of the summer economic statement this week and the comments of the Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform, there is a clear acknowledgement that measures we bring in must have an immediate effect. I am working on that basis to see what we can do for the education sector in 2023 as well as what we can do immediately to help students, families and parents with the cost-of-living crisis.

Addressing the cost of education for students and families is a major priority for me. As part of the last budget, I prioritised a number of changes to the SUSI grant scheme, which will benefit learners from September. People often ask what will happen between now and the budget. In our sector, we will see improvements and changes. From September, all student maintenance grants will increase across the board. Every grant will increase by €200, but that does not tell the full story. Due to the changes we have made to adjacency rules, a number of students will see their grants increase by well over 20%. Some will increase by more than 30%. We have increased the income thresholds, an area I want to go further in, by €1,000 so that more people will apply and qualify for SUSI. We are providing the funding through the student assistance fund, as I mentioned in my discussion with Deputy Boyd Barrett.

I think the Deputy will agree that we need to take an evidence-based approach in terms of what is the most appropriate thing to do. In that regard, the SUSI student grant scheme review is a welcome piece of work. It is not my piece of work. Published on 4 May, it involved experts, students, and stakeholders through a massive public consultation process, and outlines what we need to do next in clear, stark terms. I will draw on that in terms of the strong evidence base for policy interventions. As stated previously, we will publish a cost of education paper in September that will set out, for the Deputy, for other Members of the House and for everybody else, the various options we can consider in advance of the budget. I hope that will lead to an informed discussion.

I would have liked to see that the cost of education paper produced earlier so that we would be ready for September. I welcome the fact that the budget is being brought forward. I am still concerned with the mounting costs and about students who are planning to go to college this year. People are really worried.

We have to remember that the increases that were made last year and that are coming into effect this year were the first in ten years. Sometimes I think that what annoys people is that announcements are made but that one has to look under the bonnet to see the impact they will have. Can the Minister imagine ten years without any increase and all the extra costs that are there? The SUSI review showed there was a need for a 25% increase just to keep up with the rising cost of living, which has been chipping away at the real value of supports for years. That has left many low- and middle-income families very exposed to inflation this year.

The Deputy and I are in ultimate agreement on the need to do more in this regard. She says she would like to see the cost of education paper earlier. It is the first time there has ever been one. It is a new policy development. There will not, however, be a great mystery to it. The SUSI student review published in May is very instructive. The second thing I think will be very instructive relates to how, if we wish to do so, we can consider reducing the student registration fee and the costs associated with each course. I have been clear on the range of costs students face, and Deputies Conway-Walsh and Boyd Barrett have raised a valid issue. Deputy Conway-Walsh referred to public transport, and one could refer to accommodation and HAP. The two levers directly within my Department's remit are SUSI and the student registration fee, so they are the two on which I will focus most directly while advocating for students and their families across the Government between now and the budgetary process.

The extra increase of €1,000 in the threshold has not been across all rates. Many parents ask me why the rate they are getting is not being increased. The Minister mentioned the measure of allowing students to earn €2,000 more during their holidays. The figure has increased from €4,500 to €6,552. That is absolutely a positive change, but it seems that it will come into effect only next year. Families think, "Great - this will really help me", and then they find they have to wait a year. I ask the Minister to think of a case in which a student has taken on more work this summer to cope with the cost of living. He or she wants to apply based on 2022 income because there has been a change of circumstances in the household. Such students, however, will be penalised for working more this year, the year during which they are absolutely struggling to get by. This form will do exactly what it was intended not to do. It will exclude people instead of including them. Will the Minister look at this as a matter of urgency to see if the measure can be brought forward to apply to this summer rather than next?

I welcome the opportunity to provide some clarity on this matter. In fairness, and as the Deputy will know, applicants are assessed on last year's income, so the measure is very much a benefit for this summer. Students applying to SUSI for September will be assessed on what they earned in summer 2021. What we tried to do this year was ensure that a student working in a bar, a hotel, a shop or a restaurant would be able to earn a little more than €2,000 more this year. Applicants are not assessed on that income until the following year, however, so it is absolutely a measure for this summer. Applicants are always analysed based on their income going back 12 months. I do not think that making the change Deputy Conway-Walsh suggests would have helped students because they are being assessed this year on what they earned last summer. I am telling them they can go ahead, work hard and earn more money. Work should always pay, and we will not penalise them when they then reapply to SUSI next year. That is how the system is working. I am happy, if the Deputy wishes to write to me, to engage further with her on the matter.

I understand the logic of what the Minister is doing, but in the here and now it does not benefit people.

Third Level Fees

Cathal Berry

Question:

4. Deputy Cathal Berry asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the way he intends to address the extremely high cost of tuition fees for graduate entry medicine courses; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36722/22]

My question relates to a specific course, namely, the graduate entry medicine course run by a number of universities and medical schools throughout the country. As the Minister will be aware, the fees for such courses are absolutely enormous. They are some of the highest in the country at between €15,000 and €16,500 per year, which is incredible. Does the Minister have any plans to reduce these tuition fees, to reduce the burden on students and to keep medicine open to ordinary people?

I am aware of the Deputy's interest in and knowledge of this area. I know there was a lot of worry and concern among new students of graduate entry medicine when a bank made a decision to withdraw a loan product that had been used by many students of such courses. For the record of the House and for the Deputy's information, I have corresponded with Bank of Ireland on this. The bank made it clear to me that while it was making a commercial decision to withdraw the product, people could continue to apply for the product until 31 July of this year. I say that just by the by, but it is perhaps important information for people who will start such courses in September. There is no immediate cliff edge.

The broader point the Deputy makes very much concerns me. As a former Minister for Health, I am of the view that diversity in the medical profession is a good thing and that people coming to medicine from a whole variety of backgrounds can only be a good thing. We need to look at graduate entry medicine in a different way from how we might look at some other programmes. At the moment, as the Deputy will know, doing graduate entry medicine is marked as doing another level 8 degree, so the reason students do not qualify for the same level of supports or for SUSI is that it is seen as doing another degree at the same level. I am not sure that is quite fair because there could be very significant benefit to the health service and to our population from someone doing a science, occupational therapy or physiotherapy degree and then deciding they wish to become a doctor and having an additional level of qualification, so yes, I am up for looking at that.

How do I intend to look at it? I intend to do a couple of things. First, this came up in the context of the SUSI student grant scheme. At present, the scheme does not encompass graduate entry medicine. I have to be honest with the House: there are legislative, policy and funding issues that relate to this. The student grant review raised the policy question as to whether there should be flexibility for graduate programmes in areas of critical skills shortages, including medicine. One avenue I am looking at is SUSI and whether we could then make that available. I am also considering another range of policy and funding tools to try to increase the supply of domestic medicine graduates. The Deputy will know that we have announced 60 more undergraduate places for September. In that context, I will engage with the Department of Health on whether there is a policy rationale to do more to support graduate entry medicine.

I thank the Minister for his response. It is good to see there are at least a few options on the table. I will give him two more options that might be worth considering. He mentioned, and is on record as having said, that he would like to reduce the student registration fee, which I would certainly welcome. There is a great deal of speculation - obviously, he cannot make any commitments this morning - on maybe reducing it by €250 per student on budget day, which I would certainly welcome. The more the merrier. Would the Minister be prepared to consider a larger pro rata reduction for graduate entry medicine students in light of the fact that their fees are so enormous?

I understand that the Higher Education Authority, HEA, or the State through the HEA, provides a subvention to each of these universities and medical schools per student because I think the true cost per year is about €25,000. Would the Minister be willing to consider an increased contribution from the State, which would mean that the students would not have to pay as much towards their education?

The short answer as to what I would be willing to consider is that I will consider any and all options. The most direct way in which we can assist include the Deputy's second suggestion regarding the level of subvention through the free fees initiative that the State provides. Deputy Berry has not suggested this, but sometimes it is suggested that the State does not provide any funding in this regard. That is not the case. The case, as the Deputy rightly said, is that we do provide some subvention. Could we provide more? That is definitely one policy option.

The second option is trying to provide access to SUSI, which would be a more targeted intervention, in assessing a graduate entry medicine student in the same way any student is assessed. If such students were eligible, they would be able to avail of significant financial support and maybe a reduction in fees not available to them at the moment. Those are the two most direct ways.

I will tell the Deputy something else I am considering doing. I have yet to finalise this or to bring it to the Government, but we run a number of bursaries through our national access plan. Currently, those bursaries are only for undergraduate programmes. I am very seriously considering extending them to graduate entry medicine, recognising the need for diversity in the profession and including people from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds in graduate entry medicine.

I agree that a similar type of bursary scheme would make an excellent contribution. It could be made as large as possible. As someone who has been down this pathway, I can totally identify with the pressures these students are under.

I like what the Minister said about the Bank of Ireland loan. I finished paying off my Bank of Ireland student loan only three months ago.

Many people will be watching these proceedings from home. If the round zero offers come out in a couple of weeks' time, the people starting graduate medicine in September can still - in theory, at least - apply for the loan before 31 July. Is that the Minister's understanding? If that is the case, that will certainly make things much better. They could apply, get on the pathway and then take it from there. If the Minister could clarify that, it would be very useful.

I am delighted to do so. As anyone in this House will know, I am fundamentally opposed to the concept of student loans and have ruled them out as a funding model. This is an anomaly in respect of graduate entry medicine. I would like to take a more hands-on policy intervention approach. In the interim, there is a Bank of Ireland product available. People will probably be watching these proceedings with interest, so I will share with the Deputy and the House the following.

When I corresponded with Bank of Ireland on this, it responded to say:

We carefully considered the future of the GEM loan product and we ultimately decided that it should be discontinued for a number of reasons. However, it should be noted that no graduate student starting their medicine course in 2022 should be impacted as the final closing date for applications has been set for 31 July. Please note that some students starting their course in September 2022 may not have received their letter of acceptance. We will however process their application and conditionally approve. Once the customer provides proof of acceptance in August or September we will progress the loan. Hence no student applying for the GEM loan should be impacted this year.

That is helpful. A person can apply conditionally and provide the proof afterwards.

Third Level Education

Richard O'Donoghue

Question:

5. Deputy Richard O'Donoghue asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if he would consider the setting up of a three-year academic degree (details supplied), with a fourth year to be completed in practice, in order to alleviate the lengthy waiting lists for children. [36968/22]

My question asks that in view of the many skills and positions shortages within the health sector, would it be possible to look at a three-year academic degree, with a fourth year to be completed in practice? This would alleviate the lengthy waiting lists for children in respect of speech therapy, child psychology, orthodontics and many other areas.

That is an interesting question from the Deputy. We have been trying to do everything we can possibly do in order to try to reduce waiting times and increase the number of professional places.

A key focus of Funding the Future, our funding plan for higher education, is to ensure that we have an appropriate pipeline of suitably qualified individuals to enable the provision of essential public services in areas such as health and social services, as referred to by the Deputy. This priority is now being advanced by my Department in conjunction with HEIs. It is very important to say that these institutions are autonomous in the context of academic affairs, including the design and structure of the programmes they offer. I wish to reassure the House that, quite rightly, I do not decide academic programmes, their structure or design. This is a very important safeguard of quality, which the Deputy will appreciate. The programmes put in place and delivered by HEIs must also conform to regulatory standards required for professional accreditation. For example, CORU, the multi-profession health regulator, is one of the regulatory bodies and the Nursing and Midwifery Board of Ireland is another, to ensure that their programmes meet relevant standards. Clinical placements are arranged by individual institutions, the HSE and other healthcare providers.

What I can and am doing, to assure the Deputy, is working with other Departments to identify the skills needs. To give one example, we started this with medicine this year where we sat down with the Department of Health. We asked it how many doctors it needs to train. It has given us a number, we will be publishing it very shortly, it will be a multi-annual figure, and we have announced 60 more places from September in medicine. We announced about three extra last year, to give the Deputy an idea of the scale of this increase.

I now want to do the same exercise with the Minister of State with responsibility for disability, and with the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth on speech and language and occupational therapy professionals. I would love to say that I can slash a year off the course, but I cannot. What I can do, however, is ensure that we can very significantly increase the places, and that we train a great deal more people in these areas. I will be happy to engage with the Deputy further on this matter.

While I realise that the Minister has opened up new places in research through the Innovate for Ireland programme, there has to be further openings within the postgraduate programmes. For instance, psychiatric nurses have worked for many years in different speciality areas. They could provide therapeutic roles and alleviate huge backlogs in the child and adolescent services areas which currently have waiting lists of 3,914 children. The nursing and teaching areas have merged their work placement programmes very successfully. This has helped with their staff shortages and with the training of extra staff. It has also helped with waiting lists relating to very vulnerable people.

Instinctively, I am very sympathetic to the point the Deputy made to the effect that there is real urgency here for all of us - regulatory bodies, universities and clinical placement providers - to try to be innovative, to completely protect and safeguard quality and professional standards regulation 100% and to see what roles those involved can play in increasing the supply. This is not about numbers, as the Deputy said, but it is about a child waiting to see a speech and language therapist or an occupational therapist or about a person waiting for an appointment with a psychiatrist or a psychologist. These are very pertinent issues.

I do not want to mislead the Deputy because I am not trying to be unhelpful but I do not have a role in saying that an institution must reduce the length of the course from four years to three. I would suggest that the conversation the Deputy has had with me could usefully be had with other line Ministers and with their regulatory bodies. What I absolutely do have a role in - I will not shirk my responsibility in this regard - is in doing something that we have not done properly in this State before, namely, workforce planning. How many speech and language therapists, occupational therapists, physiotherapists, doctors and nurses do we need and how are we going to increase the pipeline to deliver those professionals? That is the way in which I may be able to help the Deputy.

In order for a three-year degree course to happen, the colleges and universities will need more supervised placements in all allied health areas, such as language therapy, nursing, midwifery and psychology. Qualified people will be needed to supervise the placements. Surely this is a real possibility in the context of the many critical skills shortages within the various areas of health. The ultimate significant benefit would accrue to the children on waiting lists. Those lists are growing longer every day. Has the Minister looked at the CAO system in the context of the skills shortages in health? Has he examined opening up further placements in universities and colleges in order to meet the demand in the health sector?

Now we are talking about something I can definitely help with. "Yes" is the short answer. This year we announced 1,056 additional places in college from September. We did not do what we had done in previous years, which was to announce a large global number. We have tried to target them in areas where there is a critical skills need, particularly a public service skills need. There are more nursing places this year, well over 100, and more medicine places. The single biggest increase ever, and certainly in a very long time, is that there are more therapy places, though not as many as I would like.

The next thing is to definitely do this workforce planning exercise in order that when we increase the size of higher education overall next year, we will look to target the areas where there are skills needs. The Deputy has identified a number of these.

There is another important area in respect of which we can provide help, namely, further education and training. If one looks at speech and language therapy, which is a very important discipline and profession, there is also a role for the speech and language therapy assistant, for which we can provide through further education and training. The more we can expand the system in general for some children and for some adults, the better. Speech and language therapy assistants will be able to play a very helpful role in that regard. They would certainly be able to support speech and language therapists. That is definitely an area I would be eager to explore, because there is action we can take quite quickly in respect of it.

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