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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 7 Jul 2022

Vol. 1025 No. 2

Ceisteanna ar Pholasaí nó ar Reachtaíocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation

The Central Bank has estimated that inflation will hit 10% next month and much of that, as we have just heard, has been driven by soaring energy costs. Many families will be simply unable to heat their homes come the autumn. They are in despair with worry as to how they will make ends meet. It is in that context that I have to say that it is bizarre that the Minister next week plans to bring forward, according to his previous remark, proposals to ban the sale of turf, considering that such a ban would remove the only viable source of heating for many families. Does the Minister not recognise how hare-brained a proposal that is at this time, considering that people want and need Government to wise up and bring forward proposals that will support them, rather than making their lives even harder?

That is not what I expect to introduce next week. As I said to Deputy Fitzmaurice, as we said last September-----

There will be no ban on the sale of turf. That is what I am asking.

Please let the Minister answer. The Deputy asked his question.

Traditional arrangements, such as a local sale where someone who has turbary rights is selling to a neighbour, will not be restricted.

Will there be a ban on the sale of turf?

Where the restrictions will be introduced is on the retail and Internet - on that commercial operation. The vast majority of turf sales are done through the mechanism that I mentioned. This is about all sorts of fuels. This is about regulating, first and foremost, smoky coal and wet wood.

Does the Minister have nothing better to do next week than-----

Please, Deputy.

It will not affect those who are relying on those traditional local persons selling to them for their heat or their own use. That is the case.

I am sure the Minister received emails as I have this week from constituents alarmed at recent media reports about the negotiations on sectoral emissions targets. I met early this week with Friends of the Earth, which warned that any reduction in ambition in one sector would be the increase of targets for other sectors to impossible levels. Indeed, in the words of Professor Hannah Daly, implausible levels.

In particular, we know that demands are being made by farming groups that agriculture’s target be no more than 22%. However, of course, this would have knock-on effects for other sectors, such as transport, energy and so on.

Can the Minister offer reassurances that Government will insist on a fair approach to emissions targets across sectors? When will we see publication of the sectoral emission ceilings? Will it be next week before the Dáil rises or will it be later in July?

It will be imminent. I cannot commit in the same way I did previously, that the regulations will come next week before the Dáil rises, because this is difficult and complex. It is not just the likes of agriculture, which attracts much of the public attention. In the Department of Transport, the scale of what needs to be done is beyond compare. It is the same in the industrial sector. What we need to do is a complete transformation of everything in the whole swath of different areas of our society. It is better get that right and bring people with us.

For agriculture, the way we will bring people with us and make the leap and scale is to provide income through new mechanisms as we decarbonise. This will bring a whole new generation of young people into forestry, farming, renewable energy and carbon farming. That is part of where we will see each sector playing its role.

On that exact point, national afforestation rates have actually decreased since the Green Party entered Government. The programme for Government set out a target of 8,000 ha of new forest per year, but somehow we are only planting 2,000 ha. The licensing system is still not fit for purpose and afforestation incentives are not competitive with other farm subsidies. Despite the fact that many farms would be financially better off with forestry, the policy of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine has pushed farmers away from forestry when it is vitally needed as a carbon sequestration measure to counteract other agricultural areas. I do not need to tell the Minister that it has multiple economic, environmental and climate action benefits.

While national milk and beef targets are being met through Government incentives, the forestry target has not been met and it is nowhere near it. The Government is currently reaching a dismal 25% of the target. We need climate action now. We drastically need enhanced forest premiums for farmers and a functioning licensing system. Will this Government please actually prioritise forestry?

Two things have the potential to transform that and they will be delivered in the autumn. The first is a regulations law that the Minister of State, Senator Hackett, is working on to help farmers. It does not always have to be the case where one takes the whole farm and covers everything in a single monoculture clear-fell forest model. Instead, we will start giving flexibility to farmers to put in native wildlife trees. The second key regulation to go with it is the European Commission committing to introduce a regulation in the autumn that will pay for carbon storage. I believe it will allow that carbon credit to accrue to the farmer, who will be able to borrow or invest for future income. Those few measures coming this autumn will be transformative to see that rate of forestation increase.

In a shameful decision yesterday, the European Union voted to greenwash fossil, gas and nuclear power. I note that all, bar one, of the Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil MEPs voted the wrong way. The Green Party MEPs voted the right way, in other words, not to greenwash fossil, gas and nuclear power.

There are four days, until 11 July, for the Irish Government and the Minister, Deputy Ryan, as the Minister responsible, to lodge an objection to this outcome to the European Council. I am asking the Minister please not to go off on a tangent and give me all sorts of what is in his mind. I ask him to answer me. Will he lodge an objection to the European Council within the next four days to this utterly shameful greenwashing of fossil, gas and nuclear power?

No, I do not expect to do so. However, I expect the Austrian and Luxembourg Governments to take a case that would be resolved in the courts, not in the European Council.

As the Minister is aware, the road hauliers will commit to a 25% reduction in carbon emissions by the end of the decade if the Government agrees to their reasonable demands to reduce operating costs. That argument is understandable. They acknowledge that their sector is a contributor to carbon emissions and accept that action is required. However, they are not in a financial position to take remedial action. The cost of replacing an existing truck with a low-emission vehicle that runs on hydrotreated vegetable oil, HVO, fuel currently stands at €160,000. More than 60% of the 38,000 trucks on Irish roads need to be upgraded in order to ensure a reduction in emissions.

Truck owners are asking for a number of concessions to enable the industry to meet its stated objectives. Will the Minister deliver a reduction in excise duty on fuel and increase the essential user rebate? Is he willing to take constructive measures to assist the industry to reduce carbon emissions?

We are working on it. As I said, I met the industry representatives of the Irish Road Haulage Association during the week and we are looking at a whole variety of different options. First and foremost, we need real solid data on the fleet of vehicles here and what the real emissions reductions would be from various measures. That is something we both agreed that we need to do much further work on.

Going back to what I said, European legislation guides and regulates everything in this energy transformation area. The European Union stated it will move away from rebate schemes for any fossil fuel vehicles, even at the Euro 6 level, which are more efficient and have lower emissions standards. The regulations are moving away from that.

The Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, and I said that we will continue to work with the association to look to see what other ways we can help people through a difficult time and also make sure that sector contributes, like every other sector, to our climate targets.

This week the Government made a welcome announcement about back-to-school footwear and clothing and, indeed, school transport. However, there is an ever-expanding cohort of people who are the new working poor. They pay for everything and get nothing. They might be rich on paper, meaning that above all they do not qualify for a medical card or anything else, but with the crippling rise in prices and inflation they are completely devastated. They get no supports. Their children have to go to school, be educated and be clothed. It is a major cohort that is growing very uneasy and they are very concerned. They seem to be forgotten by everybody in this House. The Tánaiste said he supports the people who get up early in the morning and work. However, he does not support these people, nor does the Government. They are screwed for everything and get nothing.

I thank the Deputy for acknowledging what is a very significant increase in the back-to-school allowance and the free school bus service for the year, which is hugely welcomed across the country.

I agree with the second point made by the Deputy. As I stated, there is only a certain cohort who will be able to avail of it, particularly in the context of the back-to-school allowance. It had to be done quickly. It could not wait until the budget because children go back to school in August. It had to be done straight away. As stated earlier, we will have to take further measures that go beyond social welfare recipients, such as the working family payment and the qualified child allowance. Consideration could be given to a variety of targeted measures. There are families across the country who are on a good wage but in difficult circumstances, so we have to ensure the protection measures we put in place are as broad as possible.

I have been contacted by many constituents in recent months regarding ongoing issues relating to Bus Éireann. The service has become completely unreliable, with services being cancelled at the last minute and buses not showing up. This particularly affects my constituency of Donegal because it has no train service and buses are the only form of public transport available. In just one day, six services between Dublin and Donegal were cancelled. That is incredible. I have been contacted by people who have missed important appointments, work or flights as a result of this issue. This is completely unacceptable. Frankly, it would not be allowed to happen anywhere else. Why is it being allowed to happen in Donegal? The problem is further exacerbated by the current situation at Dublin Airport. The Donegal-Dublin service is already struggling to meet demand, with every bus jam-packed. When one service is cancelled, it creates an incredible backlog of people waiting to travel. When as many as six services are cancelled, it causes total mayhem. Will the Minister contact the National Transport Authority and Bus Éireann in order to ensure services meet the demand that exists and that essential services run?

I will happily do so if the Deputy forwards the specific details to me. Many organisations are in real difficulty as a result of coming out of Covid or the recent wave of Covid. If the Deputy supplies the details, I will happily follow up to see what happened in respect of the services in Donegal and report back to him.

The Government has made several welcome efforts to cushion families from the increase in energy prices caused by Russia's war on Ukraine and Putin's attempt to use gas and oil as strategic weapons against the West. In April, the Minister committed to introducing a scheme to offer solar panels to people with high energy usage due to a medical need or to elderly people at risk of energy poverty. As he is aware, I raised this issue with him last month by way of a parliamentary question. It was confirmed at that stage that the issue was with the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland and stakeholders for review. I ask the Minister to provide an update as winter is rapidly approaching. Many of these families have contacted me. Many of them want to make arrangements for the months ahead. When will the scheme go live?

May I revert to the Deputy on this issue? I do not have the details in front of me. It is a valid question. The scheme will, as stated earlier, make an important contribution to targeting those homes with high energy use in particular. Rather than getting a figure or estimated time of delivery wrong, I will revert to the Deputy with specific details.

Nursing homes and their clients have been through the mill in the past two years. They have overcome the kind of challenges we could not even fathom until we had to face them. Today, they are facing new challenges in the context of keeping their doors open, retaining talent and delivering top-class services, all while facing skyrocketing energy bills. The gas bill of a nursing home in my constituency tripled in three months. It has been told to expect further hikes. For it and many other facilities, this is not sustainable. While some households may turn down radiators during summer, that is not an option for nursing homes because they have to maintain HIQA standards. The National Treatment Purchase Fund, NTPF, must put forward a meaningful package to alleviate the inflationary pressures that are crippling many nursing homes. I ask the Minister to request that the NTPF engage with nursing homes' representative body, Nursing Homes Ireland.

I agree that nursing homes provide a critically important service. My understanding is that, to date, four expert panel progress reports have been published on the issue of how we advance and improve them. The key areas of progress include the provision of State supports to nursing homes. More than €22 million was provided in budget 2022 for the implementation and mainstreaming of a range of recommendations in the expert panel report, including the establishment of permanent community support teams, the development of permanent community support teams, the development and piloting of clinical governance for nursing homes and the development of a safe staffing framework for the sector. It is important that we learn from Covid. Significant supports were put in place but there was real concern during Covid, especially in the early stages, in respect of how nursing homes operated. I refer the Deputy to that report and to the implementation timelines. That is critical in the context of trying to address some of those concerns.

There has been much conversation in respect of the cost of living. I wish to raise the issue of school transport and, in particular, the plight of about 20 families who live in the small village of Kilnaleck in County Cavan. I have before me the petition of at least 20 families, all of which have at least two or three children attending schools in Cavan town. Cavan town is the families' second choice when it comes to school transport. The Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, recently commissioned a body of work with Bus Éireann to perhaps provide students with their second option. I ask the Minister to please expedite that. These families are paying up to €1,400 extra for a private bus service to bring the children to Cavan town. That should not be necessary. They should have a second option available to get them to school. In these times, with the increase in the cost of living, the situation for these families is unsustainable. This is not a new problem; it has existed in Kilnaleck for several years. It is important that we support these families to get their children to school every day.

Every Deputy is aware that there are real difficulties in school transport, particularly outside the Dublin area, where that service is not available. There are exemptions, but there are also problems where people do not fit in with a particular system. The Minister for Education is doing a lot of work on that. I recently made the point to her that Local Link services could connect in or have a potential role in helping to co-ordinate that. That may already apply in Cavan. One of the things we need to start considering, in the context of school transport and transport for the health service, is connecting with the strength we have in the Local Link system. That might be one of the ways of starting to get more choice and variation. I will ask the Minister for Education to look specifically at the case in Kilnaleck in order to see if something can be done.

There has been a staggering 40% increase in the number of children presenting to emergency departments for mental health care. Emergency departments are not the place for those suffering from mental ill health, especially children. Early intervention is key, but these children are simply not getting that. There are currently 4,000 children on a waiting list for appointments with child and adolescent mental health services. Some 560 of them have been waiting more than six months. More than 2,000 children are awaiting appointments with Jigsaw. In some areas, the waiting list is 20 weeks. Some 115 children who presented to the HSE with an eating disorder were referred to inpatient facilities that do not specialise in eating disorders. There are 10,500 children awaiting primary care psychology and 4,000 of them are waiting over a year. It is no wonder there has been a significant increase in the number of children presenting to emergency departments for mental health treatment. Does the Minister accept that his Government has failed children? How will it address this emergency in children's mental health care?

The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, is very aware of this issue. We are all concerned about the figures cited by the Deputy. There has been a reduction in waiting lists as a result of some of the measures introduced by the Minister of State. I understand that one of the real constraints relates to getting the staff. One third of the posts that have been advertised to try to get new services in are still vacant due to a lack of people applying. I acknowledge that is not a sufficient answer. I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte to reply directly to the Deputy.

I ask the Minister to request that the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, respond to me on the issue. She has responsibility for mental health.

I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, to respond to the Deputy. Apologies.

In light of the Government's haphazard approach to addressing back-to-school costs for families, like Deputy Niamh Smyth, I wish to raise the issue of school buses. I have been contacted by a family whose youngest daughter has been deemed ineligible for school transport under the medical card. She, like her siblings before her, is due to go to school in Thurles. Her house is located 1 km further away from Thurles than it is from Cashel. In the past, the family applied to the section of the Department that deals with school bus services and got the decision overturned for the girl's three siblings. The criteria have been changed this year, however. The family has now been told it will have to pay €350 if the girl goes to school in Thurles, while her brother gets to take the bus there every day. The family is afraid that if it decides to go for a quiet life, goes along with the waiver this year and uses the Thurles service, it could be back to square one next year and face a €350 bill. Can the Minister talk some sense to the Department in this case, particularly in light of the family's previous eligibility? Will families that use the waiver and go to the school most accessible to them this year face bills or further ongoing disputes again next summer?

The Department of Education provides supports in terms of transport for individual children. There are grants available. The Department spends €289 million a year transporting more than 120,000 children.

Of those, about 15,500 have special educational needs. If there is a specific representation the Deputy wishes to make, I can pass it on to the Minister, Deputy Foley, in the Department.

The review of security of energy supply was originally due to be published in quarter 2. Replies to parliamentary questions have indicated it will now be quarter 3. Will the Minister advise whether a draft, briefing or any version of this review has been received? Will it be published any time soon? It is very important for the country. It is critically important now more than ever in the context of the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the uncertainty that creates in regard to energy supplies.

Deputy Griffin is right. With ongoing developments this month, we will have a much clearer idea of what Russia is doing in terms of cutting off gas supplies. That report is due in the third quarter. I discussed it with officials this week. It is critical that it comes at the same time as the hydrogen strategy, which will go to consultation in the coming days, and the Shannon area task force report. To my mind, many of the decisions we need to make are in the Shannon area, in north Kerry. Should we buy into fossil gas, where there is not real security due to such things as that Texas terminal shutting down and the Norwegian strike? Liquefied natural gas, LNG, is always high risk. Should we go into hydrogen, where we convert that offshore wind that we have in abundance into hydrogen that we could use in the likes of Moneypoint, Tarbert, Aughinish Alumina or Irish Cement?

I thank the Minister.

They go together - the Shannon area task force report, the hydrogen strategy and the energy security report.

Our corporation tax rate is questionable given the international agreements on corporation tax. There are a number of reasons our corporation tax is not to be relied on. We have always said we attract people to our country not just because of our corporation tax rate but because of our high knowledge economy and the many highly skilled and trained young people. Yet, PhD students get less than the minimum wage in Ireland. They are not entitled to any of the other benefits low-paid people are entitled to. There is a new Science Foundation Ireland scholarship. It is much higher. It is an acknowledgement for the 400 lucky people who will get those places that generally our scholarship scheme for PhD students is well below international standards and comparators in the Netherlands, Denmark and so forth, which are similarly high-cost countries in which to live. Will the Government address that and bring it up to at least the minimum wage, so that we can attract high-calibre candidates into PhDs in Ireland?

I will pass Deputy McNamara's suggestion on to the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris. It seems that research capability and knowledge ability in our economy is absolutely central to our success and to the massive increase in corporation tax we have seen in the last half a dozen years. I will ask specifically that we look at whether that rate can be increased.

When Sinn Féin criticises the increases in carbon tax, we are lambasted and told that this is all being ring-fenced for climate action. The Minister is taking €40 million from an underspend in retrofitting houses. That is a case of missed targets. It will be used to spend on gas and diesel plant infrastructure. Old people have contacted me and they have been freezing for the past few weeks. They have to turn on the heat for an hour or two every night. They are grateful that the weather forecast is good. This is all because of our red carpet for data centres and the increased electricity demand from them. Will the Minister stop saying he will ring-fence carbon taxes and promise not to increase carbon taxes in the next budget, please?

It is ring-fenced, which gives certainty for the next ten years. We will transform our buildings by retrofitting them. If, in the instance the Deputy mentioned, there is an underspend, and we discussed this yesterday in the committee, rather than returning that to the Exchequer, it is appropriate for us to use it to provide the energy security various Deputies here said we need.

Let the people use it.

Yesterday Professor Jack Lambert addressed the health committee in relation to the effects of long Covid-19. He is an infectious disease consultant at the Mater hospital and he painted a stark picture in regard to those suffering the symptoms of long Covid-19. He was quite critical of the present policy around treating those with long Covid-19. He cited an ambivalence in relation to his own medical profession towards those with long Covid-19. Long Covid-19 is interpreted as having more than three months of symptoms particularly around chronic fatigue. He was quite critical of the plan in relation to the State. Will the Minister address some of the issues raised by the professor around addressing some of the effects of long Covid-19?

I might look at what Professor Lambert suggested because it is clear Covid-19 is a pernicious and complex illness. There is still much to be learned about the long-term effects. We are only in the first year or two years of seeing those effects. I am sure our public health authorities, which served us well in taking a scientific approach on vaccination and public health recommendations, will also review Professor Lambert's advice and see how it might be applied.

The majority of people in this Chamber understand that we need to change the way we work and live to meet our climate change obligations. I say the majority because not all of us do. The majority of us do. I understand the Minister is meeting the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine in the next couple of weeks to determine the percentage of emissions reductions targets. The scale is between 22% and 30% but has to be negotiated. Would it make more sense, before we decide on a specific target, to reach the afforestation targets that we set ourselves? The target is 8,000 ha per year. At present we are only delivering 2,500 ha. We should look at technological solutions such as aeration of slurry tank systems and so on before we set those targets.

The afforestation rates we need are going to be higher than that. This is complex. When you go into the detail of it, we have to account for farming and agriculture but we also have to account for land use. It is a slightly different category but it is connected obviously. We have learned that the forestry put in over the past four or five decades was in peaty soil where there is a release of carbon. It is not a sink. We will be clear-felling it in rapid fashion, which means that sink of forestry would turn into a larger source than we expected. We are going to have to go further.

Returning to what I said earlier, critical in any changes we make is the key metric of getting an income to farmers and foresters so that young people can see a future for themselves to be part of the climate solution and get paid well for it. The sort of discussions I am having with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, and other Ministers are on how we make sure we make this change in a way that works for our people as well as for the environment.

Yesterday in the audiovisual room a number of groups including Age Action Ireland held a briefing on their joint statement on energy poverty. They told us that nine out of ten of our older people are using fossil fuels to heat their homes, and half of our older people are using oil. Will the Minister advise whether the Government will commit to raise the fuel allowance to help those who struggle to heat their homes? Will the Minister introduce a retrofitting scheme specifically for older people to assist those on fixed incomes who are least able to afford it? Will he consider that, please?

I met Age Action on a number of occasions in the past six months as this energy price spike crisis evolved. That is part of the reason there was a significant increase in the fuel allowance in last year's budget. There was a further significant increase in it twice during the spring months. We agreed with the social partners during the summer to consider what further measures we would introduce in September's budget. In terms of what we can target in our retrofitting schemes or social welfare provisions, there is analysis that shows what particular categories and particular houses are most at risk. I agree we must work with the likes of Age Action to target and identify them.

Yesterday I hosted the Parkinson's Association of Ireland's briefing in the audiovisual room. We were told there has been no Parkinson's consultant in Cork University Hospital since 2016. There has been a promise of a replacement for years but still nothing. There have been no specialist Parkinson's nurses in Cork since 2021.

The Parkinson's Association of Ireland is looking for proper care for people with Parkinson's disease and with only six specialised Parkinson's nurses in Ireland at present, we are falling way behind in care for people who suffer from the disease. Investing in more specialised nurses is a cost-efficient way of improving the efficiency of outpatient clinics, reducing waiting times and ensuring that patients have access to the specialised support they need to manage their conditions. More specialised nurses would also ensure that patients get quicker access to outpatient appointments, thereby reducing waiting lists and ensuring that any deterioration in the patient's health status can be mitigated.

There is a need for at least 20 specialised Parkinson's nurses in Ireland. The least that should happen in the forthcoming budget is that the Government set aside funding for six this year. Can the Minister tell me the Government's plan for Parkinson's sufferers in the budget?

I have seen at first hand the curse of Parkinson's disease. I have also seen the benefit one can get, particularly from that community nurse care model where miracles can happen in terms of helping people through a very debilitating disease. The health budget has expanded beyond all compare and already this year it is at unprecedented levels. We will not decide the future allocation until the September budget. I see the provision of those Parkinson's places being exactly in line with the Sláintecare approach of doing things in the community, on a preventative basis. I will mention to the Minister of Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, the Deputy's figures about Cork and the particular shortage there. It makes sense for us to invest in that.

The impact of wind energy on energy prices is clear. We see that this month with the wholesale energy cost rising to €181 per MWh but going down to as low as €90 per MWh when the wind is at its strongest and up to €232 per MWh when there was no wind. Some 30% of Ireland's electricity up to June of this year has been created by wind - up 6% on last year. However, it is not enough, either from a climate perspective or an energy security perspective. I have heard the Minister talk about the benefit of energy security and the wind opportunity on at least two occasions today, particularly offshore wind energy and the floating wind energy that is possible, but there is not enough visibly happening in relation to it. The grid is not strong enough at this point to be able to accommodate either our additional ambition or our need. It is not clear that we have the capacity to rapidly progress grid offers as they come in. We were supposed to have offshore auctions. I accept Covid happened but we were supposed to have them in 2021. There were supposed to be three this year. There may be two later this year. I am not sure we are seeing delivery from the Department that gives the grid the capacity to be able to capture the energy available to us, which the Minister spoke about today.

This will be a huge issue for our constituencies-----

That is why I am raising it.

-----not only in the development of the offshore wind within view of our shores but also in one of the most important projects EirGrid has, which is effectively the complete redevelopment of the electricity transmission grid in Dublin. That project would likely bring offshore wind energy ashore in Carrickmines, in Poolbeg and on the northside. Not only that, but we will need new transmission cables underground - they will have to be put in - to give the sort of grid we will need, not only to manage the offshore power but to make sure our electric vehicles and heat pumps can function and Dublin can function as a low-carbon electrified city. EirGrid has that as one of its top first priorities. It will be going to public consultation. I suggest the Deputy engage directly with it-----

-----to look at the specific plans. It is important, not only in terms of how we get offshore wind energy ashore but in how we power our economy and our homes.

Go raibh maith agat, a Aire. Tá an t-am istigh.

Basically, that is the first key development.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 1.13 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 1.55 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 1.13 p.m. and resumed at 1.55 p.m.
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