CJEU Judgment in Apple State Aid Case: Statements

Minister for Finance (Deputy Jack Chambers)

Last week, the Court of Justice of the European Union delivered its judgment, the final milestone in what has been a long-running legal process, beginning in 2013 when the Commission began their investigation into a number of tax arrangements across the EU. I want to take this opportunity to outline the history of the case and reiterate the importance of taking this case, notwithstanding that the final judgment last week was not in Ireland’s favour. I will discuss the recovered state aid and the significant changes in the framework for international taxation, in which Ireland is an involved participant. Before I begin, I wish to emphasise the importance of taxpayer confidentiality. This case related specifically to a decision by the Commission that more tax should have been paid in a particular circumstance, and the recovery of the state aid necessitated a calculation by Revenue of the estimated total amount of additional taxation due, as well as EU interest. These figures are in the public domain: €13.1 billion in taxation with €1.2 billion in EU interest. However, this does not mean that any and all of the details of specific tax assessments or tax payments are up for discussion. It remains the case that taxpayer information must be protected, as required by law, and we need to continue to bear this important underlying principle in mind as we discuss the case and its implications.

The legal case began eight years ago, but engagement with the Commission goes back more than a decade.

After initial engagements in 2013, the Commission issued an opening decision in this case in 2014. Both during the initial engagements ahead of the opening decision, and continuing as the Commission undertook its formal investigation, the Irish authorities co-operated fully and ensured the Commission had access to the wide range of information it requested.

The Commission released its decision on 30 August 2016, finding that Ireland had provided state aid to Apple. The Commission decision of 2016 concerned two opinions issued by Revenue in 1991 and 2007 in favour of Apple Sales International, ASI, and Apple Operations Europe, AOE. These opinions endorsed methods of ASI and AOE, which were non-resident companies, to allocate profits to their respective Irish branches, which allowed them to determine their annual corporate tax liability.

The EU Commission challenged the tax treatment of these two companies using state aid powers. In essence, the Commission considered all the activities of ASI and AOE, including profits arising from intellectual property developed by Apple in the US, should be subject to tax in Ireland. Ireland, however, considered that only the activities that occurred in Ireland, in the Irish branches of ASI and AOE, should be subject to Irish tax. The Commission presented three lines of argument for why the amount of tax paid by the Irish branches was too low.

Following the announcement of the decision, Apple and Ireland separately sought an annulment of the Commission's decision in the European courts. These cases were combined and considered together. There were detailed written pleadings from all parties followed by a two-day hearing of the case at the General Court of the European Union, the GCEU, with in-depth questions and detailed discussions. Following its deliberations, the GCEU delivered its judgment in the case in July 2020. The judgment annulled the Commission's state aid decision of August 2016. The General Court of the European Union rejected all three lines of reasoning put forward by the Commission.

The Commission opted to appeal the General Court of the European Union's judgment. Written procedures in the appeal began in 2020 and continued into 2021. In 2023, the court held an oral hearing of the case over one day. The Advocate General issued his non-binding opinion in November 2023. The Advocate General considered the General Court committed a series of errors in the judgment. He therefore proposed that the Court of Justice of the European Union, CJEU, set aside the judgment and refer the case back to the General Court of the European Union to carry out further analysis. This leads us to last week's judgment.

The Court of Justice of the European Union did not opt to follow the opinion of the Advocate General to remit the case back to the General Court for further consideration. Instead, it found the General Court had erred in its judgment and therefore considered its judgment should be set aside. It also found it had the necessary information to make a final finding on the matter, confirming the Commission's 2016 decision that Ireland granted Apple unlawful aid, which Ireland is required to recover. This is the final stage of this case and there are no further avenues for appeal or reconsideration.

While I am disappointed the judgment did not find in Ireland's favour, Ireland will respect and implement the Court of Justice of the European Union's judgment.

Deputy Matt Carthy

That is crazy.

Deputy Jack Chambers

As Deputies will be aware, in order to comply with the 2016 decision of the Commission, while the litigation process was ongoing, in 2018, the state aid identified by the Commission was placed by Apple into an escrow fund, with the proceeds to be released only when there had been a final determination in the European courts. A detailed confidential legal document, the escrow deed, was agreed to govern the operations of the fund both while the case was ongoing and following the final judgment from the European courts. Last week's judgment provides the final determination to allow the monies in the escrow fund to be released. As agreed, the full amount in the escrow fund will be transferred to Ireland over the coming months.

My officials are working closely with Revenue and the NTMA in the processes prescribed in the deed governing a release to Ireland. The final statements for the year 2023, published in July 2024, set out that the net assets of the fund as of 31 December 2023 totalled €13.77 billion. To date, we have generally only released this audited valuation of the fund on an annual basis. Given the finality of the judgment last week, I provided an update on this, with the fund having an unaudited value of approximately €14.1 billion at the close of business on 9 September 2024.

In its original state aid decision, the Commission noted there was a possibility other countries may seek to tax some of the profits the Commission was proposing to allocate to the Irish branches of the Apple companies. In that event, the Commission noted the amount of state aid would therefore be reduced from the headline figure it had proposed. The escrow arrangements took this possibility into account and a mechanism was agreed whereby, in the event of such claims, a payment out of the escrow fund could be made to Apple in order to account for the profits taxed in third counties and not therefore falling to Ireland. The making of these judgments was not dependent on the outcome of the legal proceedings in the European courts and could proceed ahead of any final determination.

Such third-country adjustments have taken place on two occasions since the establishment of the fund. A total of €209 million was returned to Apple during 2019. A further third-country adjustment took place in May 2021 for €246 million. A total of €455 million was paid out of the fund in third-country adjustments since 2019. I am not aware of any further claims which could arise if third countries claim taxes were due by these companies in their jurisdictions. The rules regarding how taxation for the period in question could be considered is a matter for individual jurisdictions to consider.

The Government is committed to identifying the most appropriate use for these funds to benefit the people of Ireland over the long term. The parameters for budget 2025 remain as they have been previously set out. That position has not changed. The appropriate use of these funds needs careful consideration. I and my colleagues in government are having these discussions. Whatever is decided, it is clear this must be treated as a windfall to the Exchequer and not to be used for day-to-day ongoing spending. The funds provide us with a real opportunity to invest in our future. We need to take the necessary time to agree and provide direction to that approach.

Since the judgment was delivered in this case, some commentary has questioned the value in taking this case to the European courts. It is suggested Ireland should have simply accepted the Commission’s decision and started spending the recovered money. This argument is not credible or honest for many reasons. On a practical level, Apple was already separately appealing this case and, given the quantum of the amount to be recovered, it is unlikely any prudent government would choose to proceed to spend the money in advance of the completion of the legal case. In fact, the money would have been held in escrow even without the involvement of the Irish State in the case. In addition to these practical considerations of whether this money would have been available to spend, there were important matters of principle that drove the decision to take the case, which remain valid despite the final judgment finding in favour of the Commission’s decision.

I reiterate that Ireland fully accepts the decision and is implementing the Court of Justice of the European Union's judgment, as we should. However, it was important Ireland defended its own tax regime and the legal principle of national tax sovereignty. While the European Court of Justice's judgment means the Commission’s decision stands, the importance of protecting the actions of Revenue and the operation of the Irish system remains as true now as at the start of the process.

I also note the Government has engaged with a range of legal and taxation experts both before taking the case and while the case was progressing. The advice remained consistent that there were clear arguments to be made in favour of Ireland’s position, as well as a possibility to win the case.

In addition, while the Apple state aid case was progressing through the courts, there were a number of fiscal state aid decisions from the Commission relating to different companies operating in different countries that were the subject of legal proceedings. Ireland intervened in a number of these cases in relation to underlying legal principles regarding the operation of state aid rules in the fiscal arena. The European Court of Justice's judgments in the cases helped to clarify points regarding the reference framework for identifying a tax advantage.

The judgment is not and should not be taken as a judgment against the Irish taxation system. The European Court of Justice's findings relate to the specific circumstances of a particular case. When it comes to those specifics, I wish to emphasise the Apple case involved an issue that is now of historical relevance only. The Revenue opinions at the heart of the case date back to 1991 and 2007 and are no longer in force. Ireland has already introduced many changes to the law regarding corporate residence rules and the attribution of profits to branches of non-resident companies operating in the State. I am not aware of any other live fiscal state aid investigations at this time.

The draft framework for international taxation has changed significantly in the last decade. Ireland is an active participant in international tax discussions and has also made the necessary changes to its taxation regime as international tax rules have developed over time. In the context of increased global, political and economic volatility, our approach to corporate tax continues to focus on stability and predictability, as well as competitiveness.

That applies both to domestic policy and international discussions and we believe it is the best way to support investment and economic growth. This is the context in which the Government decided in 2021 that Ireland should join the OECD global two-pillar agreement to address tax challenges arising from digitalisation of the global economy. While the agreement comes at a potentially substantial cost to Ireland in reduced tax receipts, we believe this is a price worth paying to bring certainty and stability to the global trading environment and to move away from the risk of fragmentation and trade wars, which would be so damaging globally and for Ireland in particular.

Ireland has been, and remains, fully committed to the ongoing work on international tax reform and to resolve global tax challenges. Ireland continues to be an active participant at OECD, EU and UN fora. Ireland recognises that taxation policy needs to reflect a changing, digitalised economy and this can only be achieved through multilateral co-operation, which is highly preferable to unilateral measures that destabilise global trade. We signed up to a two-pillar agreement with the OECD in October 2021 through the OECD-G20 Inclusive Framework on Base Erosion and Profit Shifting, BEPS, on a new framework to address the tax challenges arising from the digitalisation of the economy. Global implementation of the agreement will bring much-needed stability to the international tax landscape, providing a sound and stable platform for future investment. Ireland remains deeply engaged in the work to finalise pillar 1 of the OECD agreement and hopes to sign the amount A multilateral convention in due course. We are progressing plans to legislate for phase 1 of amount B and hope that phase 2 can be agreed shortly as part of the final pillar 1 package. Domestic legislation to implement pillar 2 to was introduced by transposing the EU minimum tax directive. The rules came into effect from 31 December 2023. Ireland was among the first in the world to implement the global minimum tax. We continue to support the adoption of balanced and sensible guidance at the OECD on important residual elements of the rules' practical implementation, for which guidance has not yet been agreed. Ireland has also supported development of the subject-to tax-rule, a treaty-based rule to protect source taxing rights of developing countries. Beyond the OECD agreement, Ireland has in recent Finance Acts fully completed the transposition of the anti-tax avoidance directives, introduced legislative defensive measures against listed jurisdictions through enhanced controlled foreign company rules, extended transfer pricing rules to the taxation of branches in Ireland, in line with the authorised OECD approach and introduced legislation for BEPS on mandatory disclosure rules, and transposed the EU minimum tax directive, implementing pillar 2 of the OECD agreement.

We have been comprehensively peer-reviewed twice regarding exchange of information on request and placed among a select group of countries in the top rank of compliance, with all ten essential elements of the international standard. In addition, Ireland has implemented six separate international administrative co-operation reforms that were set out in substantial amendments to the EU's directive on administrative co-operation, DAC. A further amendment to this regarding cryptocurrencies was unanimously agreed by member states in 2023. Transposition will take place in Ireland by 31 December 2025.

Ireland was an early adopter of the common reporting standard, participated fully in country-by-country reporting, legislated to allow for exchanges under the model rules for digital platforms and undertook to be among the first to begin exchanges under the crypto-asset reporting framework

Ireland has also been recognised as an active participant in related discussions at the UN, where we recognise its role in supporting and enhancing international tax co-operation. This work should be complementary and co-ordinated with ongoing work at the OECD. Not only has Ireland fully adopted international reforms, but we also took the initiative unilaterally where mismatch between our long-standing corporate tax rules and those of other jurisdictions created tax planning opportunities.

The past 15 years have brought extensive reforms of unprecedented ambition to international corporate taxation, transparency and co-operation and Ireland has been a fully committed and active participant in the vanguard of that reform. Ireland will continue to engage constructively in EU discussions regarding tax proposals, acting in a spirit of co-operation, while representing our perspective and interests.

The corporation tax roadmap, published in 2018 and updated in 2021, sets out the significant actions that Ireland has taken and will continue to take to ensure that our system remains competitive, fair and sustainable. The roadmap contains 11 commitments for further reforms, ten of which are now complete. Reflecting the ongoing global debate on taxation, the 2021 update provided further commitments to future action consideration and consultation. The transposition of the anti-tax avoidance directives was a key element of the roadmap commitments. These directives provide the basis for co-ordinated implementation by EU member states of anti-BEPS measures, primarily arising from the OECD base erosion and profit shifting project.

Following the signing into law of the Finance Act 2021, Ireland completed transpositions within all agreed deadlines as follows: a new exit tax and controlled foreign company rules were introduced in the Finance Act 2018 and our general anti-abuse rule already met the required standard; anti-hybrid rules were introduced in the Finance Act 2019; and anti-reverse-hybrid rules and an interest-limitation-ratio rule was introduced in the Finance Act 2021. These transpositions and other legislative actions taken in recent years represent a significant reform and modernisation of our corporate tax system, involving highly complex new legislation. Consultation and stakeholder engagement has been an important part of this process and the commitments included in the roadmap update envisage a continuing process of consultation and engagement to ensure effective implementation of the agreed reforms. Some commentary on the case has focused on potential impacts for the multinational sector. Much of the success of the economy in recent decades has been as a result of continued investment by the multinational sector and it remains an important priority for Government to encourage and develop this sector. The scale of investment is significant. At the end of last year, the stock of foreign direct investment stood at €1.3 trillion, up from €1 trillion at the end of 2019. This investment has driven exports, which have continued to display robust growth, increasing from €483 billion in 2019 to €671 billion last year.

Growth in international trade and investment has a significant impact, not only on GDP, which has more than doubled over the past decade, but importantly on the domestic economy and living standards of residents. Modified gross national income, an indicator designed to measure the domestic economy, has grown by 50% over this period, reaching €280 billion in 2023, underpinned by strong employment-rich investment.

Multinationals operating in Ireland make a significant contribution to the domestic economy through employment, with more than 300,000 people employed. In addition to supporting job creation, these companies also contribute significantly to knowledge spillovers, creating innovation potential for small and medium enterprises and the entrepreneurial ecosystem more generally in Ireland. Openness to trade and international investment has allowed Ireland to benefit greatly from globalisation over the past number decades, integrating itself firmly into global value chains. Sometimes the commentary on Ireland's success in the multinational sector can focus on our taxation regime. However, there is more to Ireland's offering than the tax rate. To support the growth of the multinational sector, complementing a competitive tax rate, Ireland will also continue to play to its traditional strengths, focusing on a forward-looking business environment, a whole-of-government approach to ensure we remain agile and competitive, and importantly, recognising the value of an educated and dynamic workforce who have consistently delivered innovation and profitability over many decades for businesses that have made Ireland their home.

This judgment marks the end of what has been a complex and long-running legal case. At all times, the advice received the Government was that there was a clear chance of winning the case. The argument for acting to protect our national tax sovereignty remains as valid today as it was when the case was first taken. Throughout the process, Ireland argued that there were no special deals for any taxpayers and this remains the position, notwithstanding our clear commitment to respect and implement the court's judgment. The judgment relates to a legacy issue. The current international taxation framework has changed on a global scale since the Commission's decision, with Ireland a committed participant in seeking to agree a way forward as the system continues to develop. We remain committed to our strategy of encouraging multinational investment in Ireland, recognising its positive impact across the economy. The ECJ's judgment means that the Exchequer will receive a significant additional amount in the coming months and work is under way to prepare for these transfers, identifying the best way to use these funds to support the Irish people now and into the future.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

I welcome young Reese Ward, a primary school pupil from Letterkenny who is here interested in this debate because this is about all of our futures. I am sure that if Reese was looking at a parliament anywhere else in the world, he would be waiting a long time for a finance minister to get to his feet and tell the parliament that he is disappointed that the state is to receive €14.1 billion and that he is disappointed that the state is to get what it is legally entitled to.

The Minister says he is disappointed about taxes that were supposed to be paid to us when his party was cutting the blind pension and the minimum wage and when it was closing hospital beds and home supports are being paid to us now. That shows where Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are on this issue and have been all the way through. I have never seen them bat as hard as they are doing for this one company for those who need scoliosis treatment or people in my constituency who need mental health treatment or the people who languish in hospital beds or, indeed, the children who are without homes. However, when it comes to individual companies that record billions of euro in profits, the Government is happy to squander taxpayers' money fighting the European Commission right to the very end. Even when the most senior court in Europe has said that the Government provided selective tax agreements, it rejects this. That is what the Minister said in his conclusion. He said he rejects the findings of the court. He is accepting them but he rejects the findings. The Government still has its head in the sand and is saying that this did not happen.

What is this all about? It is about two subsidiaries of Apple that were incorporated companies in Ireland. They had no premises. They had no building here whatever. They had no staff. The company only existed on paper but it was incorporated here. It recorded €104 billion profit over a ten-year period. The Minister’s argument, and that of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, and the Labour Party at the time, was that they did not need to be taxed here, and, indeed, that they did not need to be taxed anywhere in the world. That is what is at the core of this issue. These were two companies that were incorporated in Ireland with no employees and no physical presence. Somehow we are saying that we can book profits from Apple sales of €104 billion that were not taxed anywhere in the world. It was only when I published legislation to end stateless companies that the Minister at the time, Michael Noonan, acceded and closed that loophole.

The fact the Government has wasted €10 million in taxpayers' money fighting this case to the bitter end shows where its priorities lie. It has stood over this issue of a special arrangement that no other company has enjoyed. No company in my constituency had this arrangement. All the butchers, small factories and SMEs had to pay their 12.5% tax rate throughout this period. All the multinationals in Dublin, Cork and elsewhere had to pay their 12.5%. This was a selective advantage to one company and that is what the European Court of Justice has said. It was a sweetheart deal that violated state aid rules but despite the clear rights and wrongs of this case, Minister after Minister, including Minister for Finance after Minister for Finance, refused to accept these basic facts. The Minister, Deputy Chambers, has refused to accept the findings of the European court today in any sincere way. That speaks volumes. However, it is not only finance Ministers who tried to deny taxpayers the €14.1 billion that we are lawfully entitled to. Some 56 TDs in this Dáil voted one after the other to reject this money and to appeal this to try to make sure that taxpayers never got this money. That is a price tag of €250,000 on every single vote. That is €14 billion that was rightfully owed to the Irish State and that is rightfully being collected by the Irish State now but the Government did everything in its power not to get it. Let us remember that the Commission had to take the then Government to the ECJ in the middle of this because it refused to collect the money from Apple during the 2016 to 2017 period and up to 2018.

In the middle of all of this, austerity was let loose. The blind pension was on the chopping block. People with disabilities were on the chopping block. The minimum wage was on the chopping block. However, when it came to wasting taxpayers money for this company that recorded €104 billion profit, and the Government argued that it did not need to pay tax anywhere, it was protected over and over again. Now, the Minister, with a brass neck, tells the Dáil that he is going to decide some backroom deal with his Government partners how they will spend the money that they never wanted in the first place. Let me tell him this: it will be the Irish people who will decide where this money needs to be spent. It will be the Irish people in the next election that will decide the priorities in this regard. I remember the heckles and hackles of the Members opposite during this period. I remember Deputy English speaking in the Dáil about the politics of populism and protest from the fringes of the Opposition. He said we already pocketed the €13 billion to cure all the social issues. He said: "The politics of populism is spreading false hope." That is the core of it. The politics of those in power is to undermine hope and to act as though our social issues cannot be solved because hope was exactly what this money represented to the people. These were people who had been through years of austerity so Fine Gael went out, along with Fianna Fáil, to go after hope and chip away at it. They said there was no sweetheart deal. They told us the Commission was mistaken. They said that if we did not take the money, other countries would take it from us. They pretended that this was an issue of tax sovereignty and they have now been proved categorically wrong. The highest court in the European Union has made a clear and decisive ruling that this was a sweetheart deal for a single company that violated the principles of equal treatment that underpin the Single Market and that the money should go to Ireland. Despite the misleading statements from Government TDs and others in the media, it was always the case that the vast majority of this money was coming to this State.

I want to do away with some of the more recent spin that this verdict was bad for Ireland. The Minister himself made that point. He said he was disappointed about this. This is a good verdict for Ireland. This is money that we should invest in ending the housing crisis that the Government is creating. This is money that we should invest in building capacity in our hospitals to stop the trauma being inflicted on citizens over and over again. This is a good day for Ireland. The reputational damage to Ireland was done when this decision was made and when Apple itself told the world under sworn testimony that it had a special deal with Ireland that its corporation tax rate would be no more than 2%. The damage was done in 2016 when the European Commission found us guilty and the damage was done every year after that when Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil cobbled together to fight this and denied the obvious truth over and over again instead of admitting any wrongdoing and dealing with the indefensible. However, they were not alone. It was not only Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil. Labour rode the coat tails of that Government to ensure that did not happen. Indeed, when, after the American hearings which heard from the CEO and the chief financial officer of Apple, I said the finance committee should invite them in to discuss the issue, Labour, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Independents shut it down. They would not even allow us to breathe the word "Apple" in the context of asking the questions that needed to be asked. We have been proved right all this time.

This is a good day for Ireland. It is a bad day for the Government. It is a bad day for the type of approach it took where it put ordinary citizens at the mercy of its efforts to try to protect one single company. In this case, it was a company that recorded €104 billion in profit and the Government still argues to this day that it did not have to pay a penny tax in this State or anywhere in the world. That sums up the approach of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

I welcome the judgment. In future, I hope the Minister will listen and take heed of what Teachta Doherty is telling him because once again he has been proven right. He was not alone. The Government was warned repeatedly that the inevitable outcome of its challenge would be this money being returned to the State. The reputational damage done by the wrong-headed Government, with the support of the Labour Party and Independents cannot be calculated. It was never about tax sovereignty; it was always about state aid and one company benefiting from preferential treatment that was simply not available to other companies. Despite the warnings, Fine Gael, with the enthusiastic support of Fianna Fáil, Labour and 11 Independents supported taking the case and in doing so spent more than €10 million of taxpayers money fighting a case that it would never win. That vote was in 2016. I laughed out loud when I heard the Taoiseach and others trying to claim that this is somehow a legacy issue. The vote took place in 2016. The case is the same age as my grandson. It is not a legacy issue. It is about this Government and how it behaves and its attitude. The reputational damage that has been done is on it.

In 2016, many households and businesses were still struggling with the impact of austerity. How many businesses closed? How many people had their lives turned upside down in that time? All the while, the Government used taxpayers' money to fight against the collection of more than €13 billion in taxes that were lawfully due to this State. Naturally, people are thinking about what could have been done with this money in the intervening years.

People in my area in Fingal ask why we waited decades for a swimming pool. There are clubs facing the prospect of turning kids away for the want of playing pitches and every single day in my offices in Swords and Balbriggan and in my clinics right across Fingal, I see people who are absolutely desperate to access secure, affordable housing. There are no shortage of reasons the Government was wrong to fight this case and there is nothing more certain than that the people who fought this case are not the people who should be left to spend this money.

Deputy Matt Carthy

I recall in November 2016 that I was an MEP when the Fine Gael Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, attended the European Parliament's economic and monetary affairs committee. I asked him about the so-called double Irish, one of the many practices that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael had created to allow the wealthiest corporations in the world avoid paying their taxes. The scheme at that stage was being finally brought to an end but Fine Gael had given a longer phase-out period than was needed so companies could avoid paying their taxes just that bit longer. I simply asked the then Minister for Finance how he could justify that and his response in front of MEPs from across Europe and the world's media was that I should wear the green jersey. It was an embarrassing response on his part but it was very telling because Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil have brought patriotism to equate supporting large corporations, global tax avoiders, vulture funds and corporate landlords. So it was that when the European Commission directed that the Irish people were owed more than €13 billion in taxes by Apple, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil put on their shade of green jersey. They went all in, or rather, they put the Irish people all in. They spent millions of taxpayers' euro in a desperate attempt to deny our communities funding that could have saved them from some of the crueler cuts Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael were inflicting. I often wonder how different this country would have been if we had had a different government with the right priorities and if we had a government that stood up to EU diktats when it came to bailing out the banks and penalising Irish workers, families and communities with savage austerity. Instead, these guys became the patriots only when it was to stand up for multinational corporate tax avoiders but never to stand up for the Irish people. Let us make no mistake that this is why we have lost and are still losing many of our brightest young people to Toronto, Sydney and Dubai. It is why we are paying the price in the housing crisis, in the crises in our health and disability services. It is why, despite the fact the Government is spending record level of taxpayers' money, it has virtually nothing of substance to show for it. The Apple debacle and all that it encompasses demonstrates more than anything the need for change. It demonstrates the need for a government that puts people first, invests these Apple moneys in the communities that were impacted by the cuts that these parties imposed and for a government that will put on the green jersey for the Irish people.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

The Apple tax scandal brings the dreadful decisions taken by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael on behalf of the people into plain sight. First, to facilitate one company making a profit of €104 billion without paying any corporation tax is reckless on a global scale. What kind of a show was Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael running that allowed stateless companies with no tax residence anywhere in the world? What kind of a country was being run? I cannot imagine what it would be like if it were not for Deputy Pearse Doherty who pulled back, closed some of the loopholes and forced the Government to do that. All we have to do is look at 2015 and the scale of the corporation tax that was paid then. If the Government looks at the pattern, it can plainly see for itself. Then it spends €10 million of taxpayers' money fighting to prevent citizens getting €13 billion. Austerity was rained down on the people in this country. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael Mayo TDs came into this Chamber - and this is awful hard for us to believe in County Mayo - and voted to return €13 billion to a company like Apple; a company that had got that money illegally. I thank God that Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil did not win. Please God, they will not get to decide how to spend that money, which they spent so much taxpayers' money on trying not to take in the first place.

Deputy Ged Nash

As soon as the Apple judgment was announced, we in Labour called for statements and a debate in this House on this very important matter. The position is now final but it is disappointing we do not have enough time to debate this very important issue and the ramifications of it. In summary, the ECJ has found that a tax advantage provided to Apple by way of the 1991 and separate 2007 rulings by Revenue was an illegal State aid. Up to €14 billion is to be recovered from the beneficiary. Labour is proud of the role it played in, for example, closing off the double Irish arrangement. Thanks to this move and global corporation tax reforms under way, such forms of tax planning have been consigned to the past but we have to be very vigilant in respect of forms of aggressive tax planning that may be emerging. It is clear to us why the sovereign State was joined in the case. We have an obligation to see and deal with the world as it is, not how it ought to be and how we would like it to be. I am not making a value judgment but in the world of realpolitik, it would have been inconceivable that Ireland would not be interested in a case where matters of national sovereignty were being considered.

However, questions remain for the Government. This case came to the attention of the Commission in 2013. It arose only because of an admission made by Apple at a hearing on Capitol Hill. Is the Minister clear that the Apple case, from an Irish perspective, is unique? We know the Commission is not examining any other state aid cases currently. Can he unequivocally guarantee the House that no deals similar to Apple's were signed off by Revenue in the 1990s and 2000s? Has he asked the Revenue Commissioners explicitly to do a trawl and provide him with a detailed report? It is important that he put the position on the record of the House this afternoon. In addition, it would be hard to accept that this kind of arrangement was unique in Europe. Has the Minister asked the Commission if larger EU states have provided illegal state aid to firms and how it plans to investigate and respond to that? It would be naive in the extreme of us in this country to think that Ireland is the only and original sinner.

Labour was first out of the traps to call publicly for Ireland to sign up to global corporation tax reform. We were hammered. Personally, I was hammered in this Chamber and elsewhere by the then Taoiseach, Deputy Varadkar, for not donning the green jersey. We were hammered too by Sinn Féin whose members said we did not speak for them so I will not take any lectures from Sinn Féin on corporation tax and tax justice. True to form, the tack its members took was to wade into this Government, which they said, was not doing enough to protect Ireland's 12.5% corporation tax rate. Sinn Féin members like the idea of defending tax sovereignty but only when it suits their often hollow arguments. That really was some position to take for a party that claims to be of the left. It is the kind of inconsistency that is wearing thin and is really causing the shine to come off Sinn Féin. We wanted to sign up to ensure tax justice and certainty for investors with an agreed international minimum effective rate of 15% and to enhance Ireland's reputation, which was in the crosshairs. It was the right and ethical thing to do. The 12.5% corporation tax does not an industrial strategy make and since the ending of the double Irish and Ireland's signing up to global corporation tax reforms, the corporation tax yield to the Exchequer speaks for itself. Let me be clear: tax avoidance and evasion of any description is unacceptable. Somebody somewhere also pays the price for that. It is immoral and it is unethical. Labour has long called for a standing commission on taxation to study emerging trends, case law judgments, potential loopholes and other developments to ensure regulation on tax law stays ahead of creative accounting practices. Labour is also supportive of the new UN framework convention on international tax co-operation and an EU-wide wealth tax.

The Apple tax money is a genuine windfall. The fact is this money was only ever going to become available after the culmination of what was always going to be a lengthy judicial process at EU level. Whether states such as ours joined proceedings or not, the company was always going to challenge judgments at every turn. It would be naive and churlish to assume otherwise. However, what has stunned me is the rabbit-in-the-headlights response by the Government, first, on the judgment itself and second, on what to do with the money. The Government was ill-prepared for a judgment that could only have gone one of two ways and true to form, we have no clear plan on how to invest this money in Ireland's future.

This money must be wisely deployed to provide housing and critical infrastructure. It can help transform Ireland socially, economically and from a climate point of view. It can give us the chance to finally end the boom and bust in housing. We could, for example, as I said last week, fund a State construction company, with at least half of the available money used for new construction over years as well as land acquisition and services provision, for example. We could allocate an additional €500 million a year over five years for a genuine, street-by-street home retrofitting campaign.

We could direct the purchase of equity stakes in offshore wind developments to ensure these are advanced as quickly as possible to bring down Ireland's third highest energy bills and to allow the State and Irish firms to profit from Ireland being a net exporter of energy. We could transform public transport in this country, too. We could invest in expanding metro, BusConnects, the Luas and rail, and invest in water infrastructure and electricity grid expansion and improvement, which the multinational corporations that are here want and which citizens want as well. We could make this rich country that feels so poor ready for a better and fairer future.

The caution of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil on public investment, however, at a time of great wealth in this country, means the Government cannot be trusted to deploy this windfall sensibly. They must, then, leave it to the next Government, with a new mandate, to decide on how best to deploy the Apple windfall tax money.

Deputy Cormac Devlin

I welcome back the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and all our colleagues after the summer recess. I hope and trust that people had a nice break and I look forward to working in the term ahead, however long it may last.

I also welcome the opportunity to examine the implications of the Court of Justice of the European Union's decision in the Apple state aid case. In the first instance, it is important to acknowledge that the Apple case involved an issue that is now of historical relevance only. It relates to opinions of the Revenue, dating back to 1991 and 2007, that are no longer in force. Ireland has since introduced changes to the law relating to corporate residency and the attribution of profits.

I disagree, though, with some in the House who have argued Ireland should never have taken the case. One of the foundations of our extremely successful industrial and economic model is stability. Central to this is the independence of the Revenue Commissioners to make determinations and implement the tax code. The State was correct to take the case and clarify questions surrounding this issue. While the costs of the case were significant, this must be taken in the context of the importance of providing certainty, of supporting the independence of the Revenue Commissioners and, of course, of the billions of euro accrued from our economic model.

Last week's judgment provides the final determination in this case, and the process of transferring the assets in the escrow fund to Ireland will now commence. Given the magnitude of the Apple funds, at more than €14 billion, they have generated a lot of public interest and comment. Almost everyone has an opinion, and rightly so, and that feedback is welcome. It is right to have a national conversation about how the Apple fund can improve our country. Most people would accept that a once-off windfall of this nature should be spent on capital funding or on paying down the national debt in a way that benefits society today and into the future. Ultimately, a large range of areas are likely to be considered.

Personally, I would like to see investment in housing, particularly the provision of affordable housing for working families, and in national transport infrastructure, which may come in the form of a fund to improve infrastructure to service land and develop utilities. I would also like funding to be made available to accelerate the provision of retrofitting and renewable energy for homes in Ireland, which should have access to affordable solar power. There should also be a community dividend. Towns and villages throughout Ireland should be able to access funding for new sports and community facilities that will serve generations now and into the future.

I look forward to hearing suggestions from around the House and to working with colleagues to see the funds used in the best interests of the people.

Deputy Mark Ward

Sanity has prevailed and Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Independents have been stopped from giving away €14 billion of taxpayers' money. In 2016, the European Commission concluded that Ireland had granted illegal state aid to the Apple group and awarded Ireland billions of euro. That should have been that, but it was not. This was our money. I have never in my life heard of someone having been awarded money by a court and not only saying they did not want it but taking legal action to stop it being given to them. You could not make it up. The Government has failed to act in the best interests of the people. I would not trust it to spend this money.

The first thing Sinn Féin would do is invest €1 billion in working-class communities that have been left behind by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. I am talking about, for example, my community, where the players of Collinstown Football Club, with hundreds of members, have to get changed on the sides of football pitches because the club has no dressing rooms. I am talking about investing in Clondalkin Equine Club in order that it can have a long-term future. I am talking even about fixing the heating and showers in Neilstown Boxing Club. There is no AstroTurf pitch in north Clondalkin or Palmerstown. I could go on.

Sinn Féin would invest this money back into our communities. I ask the Government to just get on with it and call the election now, because its members are not the right people to be spending money that is rightly owed to the people. People do not trust the Government to do the right thing and to have their best interests at heart.

Look at the fiasco of the bike shed. Spending €336,000 on a bike shed is absolutely scandalous. Ordinary workers and families who are struggling to make ends meet are pulling out their hair at the extravagance of spending €336,000 on a bike shed. You could not make it up. It is winding me up. You could build a house for less than that. It is an example of the sheer opulence of the Government and of how out of touch it really is. I would like to know who tendered for the shed, who signed off on it and where the checks and balances were. Surely someone said "stop" when they saw the price tag of €336,000 for a bike shed. What role did the Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW have in this fiasco? We need to see accountability for this. The good, hard-working, taxpaying citizens of this country demand answers.

Deputy Chris Andrews

After a decade of Fine Gael in power with the support of Fianna Fáil, the Labour Party and the Green Party, we must ask what their legacy is after all these years when it comes to supporting local communities in the inner city of Dublin. What real change can be seen on the ground, because when it comes to supports and community services, all that can be seen is years of neglect?

Under the Fine Gael and Labour Party Government, we saw the most severe cuts to sports and community services, cuts from which the community is still suffering. Ireland continues to have among the lowest levels of investment in sports and recreation in Europe. When I look around the area governed by Dublin City Council, the utter lack of sports facilities is a disgrace. Around Kevin Street, for such a large community, there is one tiny AstroTurf pitch near Diggs Lane. The former DIT site in Kevin Street had immense potential for the community. A large site like that could have delivered modern, multipurpose sports facilities, along with public housing, for the benefit of the entire community. Instead, the Government parties sold it to private developers, such that residents facing the development in Kevin Street and the Iveagh Trust end up with nothing. Now, the former DIT in Aungier Street, on the other side of Bishop Street, is being transferred to private developers, and they will not be developing this for the community. Again, therefore, the residents and the local community in Bishop Street will be left with nothing.

This is replicated throughout the inner city. The Government is asset-stripping State assets. The glass bottle site, for instance, was sold off when it could have had a really positive impact for the local community. The sale of the post office in Rathmines is another example. The State sells off the asset and the community picks up the pieces. The Sinn Féin investment of €1 billion of the Apple tax windfall into inner-city communities would be a game-changer and the start of the process of reversing the decades of neglect by the Government.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

I welcome these statements on the Apple state aid case and the ruling of the Court of Justice of the European Union in favour of the European Commission. It is deeply regrettable, however, that the State spent eight years fighting the Commission's ruling of 2016 and putting corporate interests ahead of the public interest. That is almost a decade lost, and €13 billion could have been invested in so many much-needed services and infrastructure, in particular housing.

In 2016, that sum was worth an awful lot more than it is worth now in 2024. The inflation rate was something like 25% since then, so not only was the money spent fighting the case lost, but the value of that sum of money has been significantly lost to the Irish people as well. As the Commission said in 2016, Apple's tax deals had "no factual or economic justification." The Minister and his predecessors fought the decision tooth and nail, despite there being no basis for the appeal. At the time and since then, the Government has spoken nonsense about donning the green jersey, and has claimed it was acting in defence of our economic sovereignty. It was nothing of the kind; it was nothing to do with sovereignty at all. It was always about defending Apple in what was indisputably a secret sweetheart deal done by the authorities here with the imprimatur of the Government to facilitate that company. Now, all these years later, we are just expected to move on. We are told this is a legacy issue, of historical relevance only. We in the Social Democrats do not accept that for a moment. Serious questions remain about the actions of Revenue, the Department of Finance and the role of previous Governments in these special tax deals. Serious questions remain about the Government breaking state aid rules. You talk about rules-based systems very often. Here is a rules-based system, the state aid rules of the EU. You broke those rules and were found by two courts to have broken them, and you are just sweeping that under the carpet now. It does not matter if a country breaks state aid rules.

Considering what the Government has done in this, I also have to ask why the traditional double Irish structure was not used. That structure may have been unethical but it was legal at the time. Why was it not used? Why instead did the State facilitate Apple to move money within companies rather than between companies? We need to get to the bottom of this and the Minister cannot just brush it off. If we are to have trust in Revenue, we need to know how and why it granted these illegal arrangements. Did somebody in Revenue agree a figure and just work back from it? Was any report produced to support its calculations?

There are also outstanding questions about the legal and tax advice given to the Government in 2016. I would love to see that, I must say. We need to know the basis upon which the absurd decision to appeal this case was taken. After all, in addition to the loss of the value of this sum of money, which I will get back to later in terms of the price we are paying for it, there is also the question of the €10 million the Government has spent on fighting this case. Is that not counting for anything? Finally, we need to know if any other multinationals benefited from these kinds of special deals. I ask the Minister to put on the record whether there are or were other companies that got these kinds of sweetheart deals. We cannot simply turn the page on this story.

It is ironic that the Government is now talking about how it will direct the spending of this money. I listened to the Minister, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, on Sunday on the radio and I had to laugh. Having fought this case, having appealed it and said essentially that the Government was not interested in a figure of €14 billion, the Government is now saying it wants to direct how that money will be spent. Decisions around that money and the spending of it will be taken by the next Government. The Government has a neck to talk about directing how it is going to be spent. This is not just an historical case. Serious questions remain, not just about the Apple case but also our corporate tax regime generally and its implications for tax justice. While the OECD corporate tax rate agreement was welcome, it is not a panacea. The continued use of tax breaks and write-offs looks set to undermine it. After all, there is still very little transparency around corporate finances and taxation.

We could get into a shopping list, as some people have done, in respect of how this money should be spent. This is money that should have been used at the time to solve the housing crisis. Those 4,000 children who are currently homeless would have been spared that trauma and denial of rights if that money had been spent in 2016. It now has to be spent on correcting those serious errors that the Government made and trying to do some kind of catch-up in respect of the provision of social and affordable purchase homes. That is what the bulk of the money must be spent on now, to correct the serious errors the Minister's predecessors made in 2016.

Deputy John McGuinness

I welcome this debate. I hope it is just one step in an analysis that should be undertaken by the Oireachtas of how we arrived at the point where this country lost the case. Now we are collecting billions of euro in unpaid taxes. Equally, I ask that the Oireachtas finance committee be privy to the thoughts of the Government as to how it intends to spend this money. It is important in respect of the collection of taxes that we in this House remember how difficult it is for individuals and businesses to earn a profit to pay a tax. We should apply the same diligence and rigour to the spending of that money as they do in creating the tax in the first place.

Aggressive tax planning, which is what I would term this, does not mean you do not pay any tax at all. The Revenue Commissioners have a central role in auditing the returns of individuals and companies. They often give their rulings as to how a particular tax code is to be interpreted. That is important to remember. I understand the desire to score a political goal here and there but we should not take our eye off the administration of the State and how it is being conducted.

In the current edition of the Irish Farmers Journal there is coverage of the case of Dermot Tobin, who paid taxes in the name of his farm's company. He was then audited by Revenue, who took a different view on it and forced that man and his family to go through the courts to defend their position and what they had done in paying their tax. His family was left to carry the burden of the cost of legal advice and representation in the courts. That give us the comparison between a very large company like Apple and a single individual like that farmer and his family. I believe that farmer was treated very badly and forced to defend a position when really Revenue was trying to set a bar and test a case. Surely he is entitled to some support and recognition for being put through the courts on that basis.

The next discussion we need to have is on the billions of euro that are now available to the State to spend because everyone and anyone in political parties and outside have a view on how that should be done. I believe that their views, our views, should be heard. We should understand clearly where the Minister for Finance is heading with the spending of this money. However, a good portion of it needs to be ring-fenced and put to one side. Whatever remains should be applied to solving some of the major issues that have plagued this country and people for years. There needs to be a plan for housing. There needs to be a plan for supports for the SME sector. That sector looks at the decision reached in this case and measures the amount of tax that was not paid against the amount of tax that they paid. If we are to have tax justice, as it is described, we need to have these debates to reach a point where we know exactly what the corporation tax rate is, how it is applied and how much the various companies benefit from whatever reliefs they are using to reach their point of return to the Revenue Commissioners. It is a debate that is as much about the management of the State as it is about the individual issues that have emerged because of the Apple decision.

We cannot help but reflect on how the State spends its money. The recent bicycle shed issue is just one example. It raises great concern with me that that same type of administration within the country will now be looking at how to spend this vast amount of money. Over the last ten years or more, no effort has been made to reform the Dáil in such a way that it would hold the Government truly accountable and where it would hold the administration of the country, in the context of the civil and public service, truly accountable. As a result of that, the systems and processes within the State to monitor all of this and even to go through budgets are archaic; they are from the dark ages. Everything is controlled in just one direction. That is why we get situations like Apple and like the Dermot Tobin case at the other end of that spectrum. As long as we do our business in this way, we will forever be in trouble with one spend of a Department or another.

I have always advocated for the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General to be extended to include local government and to include the ability to examine any allocation by the State to a body to spend that arises from taxpayers’ money. If that ability to investigate was there and it was made clear in application forms and everything else, there would be a different approach to how people would spend money. If individuals were held accountable and named there would be a different attitude towards how taxpayers’ money was spent. However, we do not do transparency very well. We do not do accountability very well. I would suggest to this Government or the next Government however that may be made up, that the one single way to deal with it is to extend the powers of the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Only today, the finance committee dealt with the legislation to wind up IBRC and NAMA. There is no role for the Comptroller and Auditor General to examine fees and other aspects of the working out of these two organisations in the interest of the taxpayer. There is no method for the Comptroller and Auditor General to be involved. That, in itself, tells us what the State does in terms of legislation: the taxpayer is always shortchanged in all of this. Just as when the small business is compared with Apple, it is the small business that is shortchanged. Individuals and their taxes are shortchanged. Until that is addressed, we will not have tax justice and we will not have a respect for the State to be shown by everyone - the citizens, those involved in politics and those in the Departments. The reform of the Comptroller and Auditor General’s position, enhancing those powers and enhancing the powers of the public accounts committee, would be a major step in the right direction.

To make this House more meaningful in the context of this debate, this opening debate should be seen as the first step of many to air our dirty linen or to air our suggestions or whatever it might be, but to give democratic voice to what is going on in Ireland in our tax system and elsewhere. The electorate now expect it of us but since the financial crash, no genuine attempt has been made to reform the various institutions to make them more transparent and more accountable. Just a few small steps need to be taken if we are to honour our desire to reform truly the mechanisms of the State and achieve value for taxpayers’ money.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Cullinane is sharing time with Deputy Paul Donnelly.

Deputy David Cullinane

This is one of these extraordinary scandals where the Government has thrown out more red herrings than the amount of euro in that bank account holding the Apple money. The Government hides behind the notion that we had to fight the good fight for Apple because of the jobs. This was a special tax arrangement that was put in place for one company. It is about tax justice and every company has to pay its fair share of taxes. The Government has been caught out. The Irish State was caught out in relation to tax arrangements which should never have been put in place. The Government moved to close down many of the loopholes, coming, it has to be said, from pressure from the Opposition and TDs like Pearse Doherty and others.

That practice of fighting the good fight as the Government saw it for Apple was at the expense of the Irish taxpayer and was at the expense of working-class communities when obviously austerity had been in play for many years. In fact, many of those working-class communities have not fully recovered from that, including in Dublin, Dublin inner city and in my constituency in Waterford. The Pobal index sets out very clearly where we have very high levels of disadvantage and very high levels of poverty. Where people do not have sporting infrastructure, cultural infrastructure, arts infrastructure and even obviously school places, garda numbers and all of those things, that adds to the strains and pressures on those working-class communities.

It is intergenerational; it goes on from one generation to the next because no government has ever taken addressing those issues in working-class communities as seriously as it should have. They have essentially abandoned them, left them behind and then wonder why we have all the difficulties and challenges that we do. That is why, as the Minister of State knows, we proposed a €1 billion fund to be directed at those constituencies and those areas where there are high levels of disadvantage and where those communities had the bear the brunt of austerity at a time when the Government was facilitating the tax arrangements for Apple that meant that billions of euro in revenue that should have been coming to the Irish taxpayer was not.

Many people have spoken about a whole range of ways in which the Apple money can now be spent and obviously that is a decision the next Government will have to make. It is accepted that we have a housing crisis and we need to build more homes.

I could point to my area, health, where we do not have the hospital beds we need and so on. Not only did the Government not fight the good fight for the people, it also did not fight the good fight for those working-class communities it still leaves behind every single day.

Deputy Paul Donnelly

The first instinct of this Government is to back big corporations. The first instinct was to waste taxpayers' money. Millions of euro in legal fees were paid, just like the €320,000 spent on a bike shed. This is no surprise because Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have always had the backs of big corporations. At the same time they were spending millions to defend this disgraceful tax avoidance scheme, the people of this State were being hammered by austerity. Today I met mental health reform groups, PPFS workers throughout the State and the National Youth Council was here lobbying for more funding. Those and all the voluntary community and charity groups I have met say one thing, namely, that the cuts during the savage austerity years caused huge damage to communities, individuals, families and children.

We absolutely need to ensure this money is used properly and Sinn Féin will put €1 billion of the Apple tax money into an investment communities fund. The money would be invested in working-class communities that have been left behind by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. We would have a targeted capital investment fund for sports, play, community, youth and arts facilities and public spaces to transform communities that bore the brunt of that austerity. These facilities and sport centres would be for clubs like those in my area, including Corduff FC, Hartstown Huntstown FC, Erin go Bragh GAA, Mulhuddart FC, Tyrrelstown GAA and all these clubs, many of which are still operating out of containers in 2024. St. Oliver Plunketts has no winter training facilities and it is the same for Erin go Bragh. These provide absolutely essential services for our young people.

We have utterly inadequate youth facilities throughout Dublin West. I worked in Darndale for a good number of years and I always looked at the Sphere 17 building. I advise people to go and have a look at it and ask why it is not the standard in every community that we have a dedicated youth facility. I commend Fingal County Council on its recent focus on community parks and open spaces but imagine what more could be done, not just in Dublin West but throughout the State. Community is everything; it is the beating heart of life in Ireland and Sinn Féin is committed to backing communities held back by neglect and cuts to ensure they can reach their full potential.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The Apple ruling confirms Governments colluded systematically over more than a decade with the efforts of Apple to avoid tax and deprive the people of €14 billion when they were on their knees being crucified with austerity. It is worth remembering that in 2013, we were also starting the process of getting rid of the biggest property portfolio in the world via NAMA and selling it off at fire sale prices to vulture funds and international investors rather than using it for social and affordable housing. Had we not done that, we would not have the housing crisis we are now facing, we would not have 14,500 people homeless, we would not have more than 100,000 families on housing lists and we would not have house prices that are unaffordable for the vast majority of workers. Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and others combined to stand with tax-avoiding, staggeringly wealthy corporations like Apple and betrayed the people when they were being crucified. We are still living with the consequences and we will be for decades, as the Central Bank has confirmed. We are still facing decades of housing crisis.

Is that an overstatement of the level of collusion? I decided to return to the discussion back in 2013 in the finance committee, of which I was a member. On Wednesday, 3 July I put forward a motion asking that Apple, Google and Facebook be brought in to be questioned – just to be questioned – about what had emerged in the United States with the allegations of aggressive tax avoidance using Ireland and subsidiaries that did not actually exist to avoid billions of euro in tax. Guess who voted against the motion? It was Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, the Labour Party and a so-called Independent called Stephen Donnelly, who is now a Government Minister. The names are interesting when one looks at them: Regina Doherty, Stephen Donnelly, Paschal Donohoe, Timmy Dooley, Sean Fleming, Simon Harris, Aideen Hayden and Aodhán Ó Ríordáin. All these people voted against just bringing in Apple to answer questions about the revelations that had emerged about its use of Ireland as a tax haven and the use of subsidiaries that did not exist - they did not have tables, chairs or staff – and through which it was siphoning profits to avoid paying tax. They would not even allow Apple to be questioned, never mind spending millions defending them when three years later, the European Commission started a legal action against the company.

We are paying a very bitter price. Not only are we paying a bitter price for that collusion and that prioritisation by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael of corporate interests over the needs of ordinary people for housing, services and infrastructure, but it is still going on. There is about €200 billion in write-down tax expenditure still going to the same multinationals which have now found new ways to do what Apple did to avoid its tax liabilities and the Government is still colluding with them.

Deputy Mick Barry

Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have spent €10 million of the people's money on legal fees to try to stop the European Commission giving Ireland €14 billion. That is some legacy; that is something to stand over. I have been clear the priority for spending this money is social and affordable housing and tackling the housing crisis. I support the establishment of a State construction company and Apple tax money being used as seed capital to get that company up and running and to have a laser-like focus on building social and affordable housing. I have made the point before that I can step outside my front door in Blackpool on the north side of Cork city and go for a walk or drive and within two miles be at Apple’s European headquarters in Hollyhill on the north side. If you stand on the hill and look out over the city you will see hospitals that are overcrowded and schools that are underfunded. I am in favour of using these moneys to invest in and improve public infrastructure.

I am not raising a whole shopping list, but there is another issue I wish to raise that needs investment, namely, water infrastructure. For two years now, the people of Cork have been plagued by brown and orange water coming from their taps. It is currently hitting the people of Mount Farran, Blackpool, and surrounding communities, very hard. It is not just down to it, but a factor in this is that more than half of the underground pipes in Cork city are cast iron and up to 100 years old. Uisce Éireann has told me what is needed to replace those pipes is €500 million of investment. It could not be done in the space of one or two years and would have to be planned out over a longer period of time, but while the priority is social and affordable housing and the establishment of a State construction company, public services, including water infrastructure are very important issues on that list.

Deputy Brian Leddin

I very much welcome the Minister's statement and the opportunity to contribute to this important debate. With respect to the rights and wrongs of this and previous Governments' challenging of the case, I was not a Member of the Oireachtas in those days, so I defer to the experts on tax law and international tax law.

I believe some of those experts are in this House, especially sitting across the floor from us.

The Minister, Deputy Chambers, said in his remarks that this is a real opportunity to invest in our future. I want to use my speaking time, which is precious and limited in this House, to talk about the future rather than the past and the potential for this windfall to develop our country for the better. I am surprised that colleagues across the House did not use their time for those purposes with perhaps the exception of Deputy Nash of Labour. It is predicted that the population of this country will grow by approximately 1 million people in the next 15 years or so. I think most in the House agree that it is in Ireland's interests that the expected population growth and the distribution of it across the island should be guided at least to some extent by decisions of Government. If Government by contrast takes a hands-off approach or even just a reactive approach to managing the development and growth of the country, then we are always going to be chasing ourselves and dealing with crises we might have avoided had we been more strategic, perhaps less conservative in our predictions, more ambitious in our targets and far more far-sighted in our spending decisions.

The challenges in housing, health, energy and transport are to some degree or other fuelled by a failure of ambition to be strategic and a failure to be far-sighted. We find ourselves needing 60,000 homes per year, not 30,000 as we thought. In my home city of Limerick at the heart of the mid-west region, we probably need another model 4 hospital, not simply an extension to the bed blocks in the one we have. We need electricity infrastructure to support industrial, commercial and residential development like we never predicted. The same goes for our water and wastewater infrastructure. We need to build road and rail lines now it seems, but we are only deciding to do so when the traffic is backed up or the carriages are at capacity. The decision on what to do with the windfall that is coming to us, that is, the Apple billions, must be informed first by the need to be far more strategic about how our country develops and second by the real opportunity we have to rebalance our island.

The last ten years have seen unprecedented economic growth in this country. While this is very welcome, it is giving us many challenges, some of which I mentioned previously and some of which the Apple windfall, subject to a decision of Government, might provide us with the money we need to resolve them. It is not just about money, however. It is about having a good plan. Unfortunately, we do not have a good plan. The national planning framework, NPF, review is going through Government at the moment. We expect a decision will be made on that soon. The ambition is just not there in the NPF review as it currently stands with respect to the population targets that are set for the regional cities of Waterford, Cork, Galway, my home city of Limerick or, indeed, the Limerick-Shannon axis. The population targets that are in that review should be revised because if they are not, they will not justify the kind of investment this Apple money could pay for that could lead to fast population growth and economic growth in our regional cities. It is critical that those populations targets are revised before the final NPF is published.

Deputy Barry talked about not having a shopping list. I do have a shopping list. It is called a strategic rail review, and it sets out a path for the development of rail in this country. I see Deputy Canney opposite taking an interest. I firmly believe the western rail corridor, which Deputy Canney has soldiered on over many years, should be invested in and built as a matter of priority for this Government. It should not just be the western rail corridor as far as Claremorris, and I know Deputy Canney will agree, it should extend on to Sligo as well. We have incredible ambition in the mid-west for growth, but that growth can only happen if we build a metropolitan railway system connecting Shannon Airport, as is supported by the strategic rail review and which can be paid for using the Apple money. It is costed in the strategic rail review at approximately €200 million. It can be built in five or six years. It should be one of the highest priorities of Government to build this infrastructure to set the mid-west on a path of fast growth, supported by metropolitan rail development, where rail will open up land for housing development and high-density, high-quality, affordable housing for our citizens and young people and those who have moved to the mid-west region. This is set out in the strategic rail review. The Apple money can support the development of this infrastructure, not just in the mid-west but in Galway, Cork and Waterford. This money - this windfall accruing to Ireland - represents a huge opportunity to rebalance our island and the way to do it as fast as possible is to invest in rail infrastructure.

It is worth mentioning that when we make decisions about State and public investments in this country, we bend over backwards to show that they should not be made. There is a case to be made for a relaxation of the rules around public spending because this infrastructure is fundamentally good. It will cause the growth and development of our regions and regional cities and a rebalancing of this country, which is not just good for outside the M50 but for inside the M50 too. We have a situation whereby our capital city is creaking at the seams and bloating, and young people cannot afford houses. We cannot build houses quickly enough. We do not have the infrastructure to support the development of more houses. The answer is to rebalance our island and this windfall that is accruing to this country should be used to that end. That is, of course, allowing for the rules around fiscal spending. There are important rules and those constraints are there for a reason. However, we have to accept that this kind of infrastructure is fundamentally good and should be pursued as a priority of the Government, and that is the opportunity we have now.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Go raibh maith agat. Anois, Sinn Féin. I call na Teachtaí Quinlivan agus Browne. Is Deputy Quinlivan taking three minutes?

Deputy Maurice Quinlivan

I am sharing time with my colleague.

Deputy Martin Browne

It is three minutes each.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

In total it is four and a half minutes.

Deputy Maurice Quinlivan

We will take two minutes and 15 seconds each. The current Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael coalition, and the previous Fianna Fáil-supported Fine Gael Government, spent millions of euro of taxpayers' money on legal fees fighting this judgment. They fought it even though the European Commission believed Apple owed this tax. The Court of Justice of the European Union determined and deemed, as we in Sinn Féin always believed, that this money is indeed owed to the Irish State and its people. Ten years and €10 million in legal fees later, do these two parties finally accept this judgment?

Foreign direct investment remains crucial to our economic strategy. It is probably no more important than in the mid-west region in my home city of Limerick, but it is incredibly important for our reputation that there are no sweetheart deals. There must be a fair and level playing field. The Government has argued that no special treatment was given to Apple. In accepting the EU judgment, does it now accept that special treatment was given to one multinational company? Obviously, part of the tax money we are going to get should be used for building public, social and affordable housing.

During the time Apple was not paying its appropriate level of tax, many communities in this State were and continue to be impacted by austerity measures. Many were devastated. Community groups and facilities were trashed through a lack of support and funding and many never recovered. The Pobal index outlines the scale of deprivation in many areas and census 2022 highlighted the large number of unemployment black spots that still exist in this State. Five of the top ten of them are in my own city of Limerick. These are communities that continue to suffer intergenerational disadvantage. They are areas where young children do not have the same opportunities in terms of sports facilities and arts and community infrastructure. Those communities suffered most by imposed austerity and as such, they must be given the opportunity to benefit from the windfall. A Sinn Féin Government will ensure that they do benefit. To that end, we have committed to investing €1 billion of this windfall into communities with the ambition to use the money to enhance sports projects and arts, community and youth facilities, which will have an impact across the whole of Limerick. It is part of our commitment to make this State a better place to work, raise a family and build a future. It is about giving back to those communities. That is our commitment. It is a commitment to back those communities that were held back by neglect and regressive cuts over the years.

Deputy Martin Browne

Last week, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and Labour councillors and some independents in County Tipperary voted in favour of increasing the tax on family homes in Tipperary through the local property tax, LPT. Yet, these same parties were the ones that opposed the payment of Apple billions that were due to our State when this country was reeling from the disastrous effects of the financial crisis, brought on by the mismanagement of the economy by a Fianna Fáil Government, which saw the suspension of many capital projects.

The housing crisis stemmed in large part from then although it has been exacerbated by the approach taken by this Government and previous ones led by Fine Gael. Any assertion by the Government that by opposing the payment of €14 billion it was seeking to protect Ireland’s reputation is false. This verdict has not damaged Ireland’s reputation. Ireland’s reputation was damaged when this first came to light and by the first ruling in 2016. Neither did the case ever infringe on our tax sovereignty. It was always about state aid and one multinational benefitting from a deal not available to others. Then, to actively oppose payment at a cost of a further €10 million flew in the face of people struggling to secure the services or avail of the infrastructure they needed.

Here we are now with a housing shortage and the mismanagement of water and sewage infrastructure in Tipperary, with hospitals in the mid-west struggling to cope and mental health beds in Tipperary having been closed, with under-resourced children’s disability and education services and with communities having to continuously beg for funding for each phase of the N24 project. If Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael had their way, Irish taxpayers would be down €14 billion, on top of the disastrous infrastructural deficits that are to be seen in communities across the country.

Deputy Leddin spoke of this side of the House wanting to bring up the past. We do not want to bring up the past. We want to talk about the future as well but if we do not learn from the mistakes of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael-led Governments with the Green Party and others, we will continue to squander taxpayers’ money. I have no confidence in this Government to act in the interests of communities, as it appears to favour of those who have vast means over those who do not.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

I welcome Deputy Leddin's speech. He lacerated the Government's lack of investment in public infrastructure in recent years.

Deputy Brian Leddin

Previous Governments.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

It is only a pity that Deputy Leddin was not in government for the past five years. He conveniently forgot that the Government has plenty of money, which it is squirrelling away in a rainy day fund for the future, but that is another point.

I also welcome the decision today by the finance committee to request that the Minister for Finance and the Minister for public expenditure present themselves before that committee to answer questions regarding the Government's policy on refusing the Apple tax money in recent years. It is incredible that for such a big chunk of money and such a serious issue, where the Government has been shown to be breaking the law in this regard, the Minister for Finance is somewhere else rather than the Dáil Chamber in dealing with this issue. That is an incredible situation. He attended the Chamber for a few minutes of the debate but did not attend properly for the whole debate. It shows the lack of respect for the Dáil but also the issue here. The Minister for Finance is entitled to a break but he has had a long break over the summer.

The actions of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael in making Ireland a tax haven for the last number of years speak volumes about where the loyalty of those parties has been. The Government charged a tax rate of 0.005% to Apple while many people in the State were paying 40% in tax. Apple paid a tax ar a rate of one eight thousandth of what a worker was paying within this country at the time. That is the different attitude the Government took to a worker than it did to Apple at the time. It shows where those loyalties were. Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Green Party even paid €10 million to defend the interests of Apple, which is an incredible situation. I listened to the Minister, Deputy Donohoe. He was extremely cynical. He sought to be in two separate, mutually exclusive political spaces at the same time. He said he accepted the ruling on the Apple tax but at the same time, he disagreed with the ruling on the Apple tax. You cannot be in those two different locations at the same time, politically speaking. We have not had an opportunity for the Government to explain exactly what is behind the fact that there has not been tax justice in this system.

Deputy Verona Murphy

The question of how we spend the Apple billions is one that I believe must be answered cautiously. I have heard many say that it can be used to solve the housing crisis. It must be said that housing is, without a doubt, the biggest issue facing our nation today. Much money has already been fired at it, to no avail. That is because there are many issues to solve and money will not solve them all. Viability is the foremost issue. Viability is an issue which is continuously overlooked as an issue at all. While the Planning Regulator states that viability is not a planning consideration, ignoring it will not make it go away. If planning policy is not going to make viability a consideration, the problems will remain. We can throw as much money at the problems as we like; it is only throwing good money after bad. In 2021, I advised, on numerous occasions, on the floor of this House that the policy of dezoning lands was a bad idea. It was a Stalinist policy advised to Government by a zealot in an office funded by this Government. They said I was mad. In one of my speeches, I stated:

For the first time in the history of the State, 80% of serviced zoned lands in Wexford and many other rural constituencies are to be effectively dezoned. It makes no sense. It will drive up the price of land, increase the cost of housing and magnify the current housing crisis in rural towns.

The Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, went ahead with the dezoning and he wrote to every county council telling them to dezone lands. Serviced lands were dezoned. Less than three years later, in July 2024, the same Minister was writing to all local authorities to revisit their county development plans to zone more land to aid housing delivery. Who is mad now?

There are more problems that have to be solved before we can spend any more money. Irish Water is one such problem. The problems with compliance it is facing are leading to water quality issues and the wrong people are being blamed. As for problems with electricity, connections are taking far too long. In fact, we are now not able to produce enough electricity and are turning down valuable investment. There is nothing in the proposed Planning and Development Bill that will solve these problems. If anything, it will make things worse. Unfortunately for the generations of Irish people who will be locked out of housing or of ever owning their own home, the Government is not listening to anyone other than the zealot in the Custom House. The biggest issue is that the Government is awash with money, augmented by the foreign direct investment that we are so fortunate to have. That money could go back across the water at any point following the elections in November. I do not see or hear a single policy on that side of the House that will solve any of the aforementioned problems. Until the Government effectively addresses the problems, it is just wasting taxpayers' money and throwing good money after bad. In effect, the Government has to recognise what the problem is before it can solve it.

Deputy Seán Canney

I too welcome the opportunity to say a few words about the tax money that has come our way in the limited time I have. I am sure that everybody will have a shopping list and whatever. I too have a shopping list, but the shopping list is a bit like what Deputy Leddin said, in that there are projects we can invest in which will give us a return in our economy for generations to come. The western rail corridor is a prime example, were we to develop Knock Airport, Shannon Airport and Cork Airport to take the pressure off Dublin and to do connectivity works to them in terms of rail transport for commuters and freight transport for the companies populated along the western region. The Northern and Western Regional Assembly has always said that there is a lack of investment in regional Ireland. The reason for that is because we have overconcentrated our investments in Dublin and around the Pale. We are now reaping the results of that with congestion in the airport, limits on what we can bring in and out of the airport and all kinds of confusion when we have other opportunities to develop this country into what it should be. Housing can be developed if we put the investment into land that needs to be serviced. In my own county, there are more than 30 towns and villages without a wastewater treatment plant. No houses can be built there because An Bord Pleanála has ruled that any such development would be premature without having a wastewater treatment plant. We also have a legacy of processes that are delaying the building of infrastructure. That is costing money because every year of delay costs more money. We have not had the appetite, however, to look at the processes we are using for planning and procurement and to approve projects. They are never-ending without a single bit of work getting done. We have a training levy that employers pay for every employee they have.

It is a couple of billion euro and it is not being used to train additional apprentices. It is not being used to make sure that we have further capacity. It should be used to bring people back into this country from foreign shores.

There is a lot to be talked about but the action needed is to cut out much of the red tape, much of the messing that is going on and the loss of money with nothing shown for it. I hope that before any work is done, we will have a better method by which we will carry out infrastructure projects. I also agree with Deputy Verona Murphy that our planning is a complete farce at this stage.

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

First, I will comment on the approach of success Irish Governments and why I think it was absolutely the correct approach to back and support an IT sector, a multinational sector and an international sector that has provided employment, that has invested in this country and that will remember long into the future the fact that we backed and supported it. Now we have the added benefit that we have a windfall from it. We have the best of both worlds. It has absolutely been the correct approach. We will continue to have the support and the confidence of this sector but now we have €13 billion or so that we can invest back into this country or save for a rainy day, whatever approach is taken.

As has been said, we all have our shopping lists. We all have ways in which we feel that this money can be invested. I certainly have a few ideas and it is important I use this time to share and to speak about them.

Uisce Éireann, wastewater infrastructure and water services is a theme that has cropped up consistently in contributions today and there is a reason for that. Uisce Éireann over the past couple of years has proven that it is not up to the task. It is not able to deliver, in particular wastewater infrastructure, at a scale and at a speed that is required for this country to progress and for towns and villages to flourish. I would go so far as to say that much of this money could be used to restructure Uisce Éireann or perhaps go as far as giving this investment money back to the local authorities and let the local authorities do what they were good at, that is, investing in wastewater infrastructure, building wastewater infrastructure and water supply. That can be seen in my constituency as much as in anyone else's constituency.

Over the summer, in Rosscarbery, one of the most popular tourism destinations in Ireland and which is an absolutely beautiful destination with Warren Beach being the jewel in the crown, they put up with some horrible experiences where on two occasions they were no-swim notices put up at Warren Beach. This has devastating consequences for the businesses there which rely on tourism, for the visitors who visit the area but also for the locals because Warren Beach is one of the only free and fully-open amenities to the public and to the residents of Rosscarbery, Owenahincha and west Cork and the surrounding area. When the no-swim notices come, it closes off the beach, essentially, for any use for a number of days, and that has devastating consequences. It also rocks the confidence of those who would visit Warren and that area. It just so happens that in between these two beaches, Warren and Owenahincha, right on the headland that separates them, there is Uisce Éireann wastewater infrastructure that, I can tell the Minister, is not working. It is not effective. It is not treating the water in the way in which it should and that is the reason we are getting increased E. coli levels in this water. Of course, it denies it. It says it has absolutely nothing to do with it. Of course, it does what is usually done; it blames the agriculture sector. However, when agriculture is not seen to be compliant and when it is inspected and found not compliant, it is penalised financially. We are seeing, with loss of derogation, that they are having to reduce stock numbers and, therefore, reduce supply and, therefore, reduce income. They pay real penalties. Uisce Éireann is answerable to nobody. It is accountable to nobody and that has to change. I suggest that we give this money to local authorities and they will solve our wastewater treatment infrastructure.

The same is happening in Shannonvale, a village near Clonakilty, where we are seeing wastewater and sewage seep up through what is the village park where people would gather and have community events. Uisce Éireann is nowhere to be seen. It is not even included on the 2025-2029 plan. This has to change. Uisce Éireann needs to be accountable.

In Dunmanway, one of the main towns in my constituency in west Cork, one cannot build a single house. People cannot get planning permission. There is essentially an embargo on planning permission because Uisce Éireann infrastructure, wastewater infrastructure that was only built ten years ago, is now no longer fit for purpose. This has to change. This is repeated right throughout Ireland. We seriously need to have a look at Uisce Éireann. This money, this €13 billion, provides an opportunity to invest in local authorities. Let the local authorities look after this and resource them with personnel and the skilled labour force who can look after this.

Another area where investment such as this could be put to incredibly good use is in disability services. We, as a State, have to hold our hands up and say that we need to do a lot more in terms of disability services, especially in special education and special schools. In Cork, we have a special school fighting for therapies, be it speech and language therapy or occupational therapy, for the students who attend that school. It would take a small amount of money to solve this but the issue is personnel. The issue is that we need to recruit the qualified therapists to give these incredibly important therapies so that therapy can be given in the community and in the school and here is an opportunity to do that.

We need to invest in marine infrastructure - piers, harbours, slipways. This is local authority-owned infrastructure. There is such an enormous potential right around the coast for marine tourism, for marine leisure, for rowing, for sailing, for kayaking, for whale-watching, whatever it may be. There is a massive opportunity presented to us to invest properly in piers and harbours that are owned by the local authorities. The Cork coast is the longest coast in Ireland. There are so many havens, so many sheltered harbours, but we do not have the piers and slipways. This could be an opportunity.

We could invest in future energy, in fixed and floating offshore wind. There is huge potential for Ireland, as has been said time and again, to become a global superpower when it comes to clean renewable energy. It is there in abundance off the west coast. Right around the coast, in fact, it is there. We need to invest in the ports. We need to give developers confidence that there is potential in this incredible technology so that we can electrify our heating systems, electrify transport and have clean renewable energy that we can export to Europe and invest the proceeds back into the economy.

The possibilities are endless. We have talked about investment in housing. Absolutely, that is necessary. We have talked about the need for investment in health. We can all agree 100% that is necessary. However, one of the key things to unlock driving Ireland forward and using this money to its full potential is having the personnel, the skilled labour force and the qualified workforce in order to deliver all of these things that we are asking for and have on our wish lists. This €13 billion that we have at our disposal could be key to unlocking that skilled workforce, whether it is investing in higher education, in apprenticeships, in third level education or in qualifications. However, we must remember as well that right across the globe we have thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of Irish qualified workers skilled in trades, in health, in nursing and doctors and consultants who are not choosing to live here right now. This funding could be used as an incentive to attract them back, to bring them back, give them financial incentives to move back to Ireland, to live here, to stay here and to work here, to build our roads, to build wastewater infrastructure, to work in our hospitals and to fill those HSE jobs that we cannot fill right now. There is huge potential there and this €13 billion offers that potential. These are all things that should be considered.

An Ceann Comhairle

We move to the Rural Independent Group. Deputy Mattie McGrath is sharing time with all of his colleagues.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is interesting listening to the Government backbenchers. One would never think that they were aware of the court case.

The Government refused to take this money. I have to be honest and say that I support it because we have 5,000 jobs in Clonmel as a result foreign direct investment. I still support it but we cannot have schemes that are favourable to one big company. We must think of the SMEs. I want to see this money going to the SMEs to give them badly needed supports and lifelines to survive because they are being crucified by taxes, penalties, health and safety - you name it. The plethora of issues is ridiculous. They are the backbone of our economy with 98% of our businesses being SMEs and they must be supported.

There are two wonderful special schools in Cashel - Scoil Chormaic and Scoil Aonghusa - but we need a third one in Clonmel. We have the wonderful example of footprint of the two schools in Cashel and we must look after our weakest and sickest children. I met a little boy named Ross yesterday with his mother. He is five years of age with a diagnosis of autism and he cannot get a school place. This is appalling. These people must be looked after. We could fire it into the black hole of health and many other areas of the economy where we are not getting proper value for money but we need this to be spent prudently and we need to support the enablers. The enablers are the people who have small businesses and who run these small special schools in the community. This is where the money should go if we can spend it.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

From a Government view and a country point of view, we did the right thing in supporting the companies in the first instance. Of course, the court made its decision. In other words, we won twice because we backed the companies and, at the same time, we won the case we were not looking to win. Now we have this money, the one thing I would advise is prudence. We should spend money on capital projects. There is so much we need to do but there is one group of people I would like to talk about, namely, the 600 people waiting for local improvement scheme roads to be done in County Kerry. The money that it would cost to do those 600 roads and all the other LIS roads would be minuscule out of the total pot of money that is available and that we were not expecting. That would be money well spent. It would keep our countryside open and keep access open. We have to do something with Irish Water. We have to finance water for projects, houses and development and I would look for money to be spent in that direction as well.

Deputy Michael Collins

I pay tribute to Apple, which has an incredible workforce of 6,000 - mainly in Cork. This is a big issue today. We praise the company for what it has done for the people. There are many ways this money could be spent. It is a bit like the Bible. We are spreading lots with our clothes. We should look at investment in nursing homes instead of closing them. We should reverse the decision to cut cataract surgery reimbursement for patients travelling to Northern Ireland and reduce the VAT rate for businesses. Cafes are closing all over the country and the Government has turned a blind eye and let them go. West Cork has the worst roads in the country.

We come back to the main issue I would fight for, which is infrastructure. We should put infrastructure in towns and counties. Where in the name of God have you ever seen the like of it where everybody but the Government is to blame when it comes to sewerage systems in this country? I have attended meeting after meeting Shannonvale, Dunmanway and Rosscarbery in west Cork. Shannonvale has been waiting 27 years for a new sewerage system. Raw sewage is pouring into the local waterworks. Dunmanway has been waiting 15 years while Rosscarbery has been waiting for ten or 15 years. They are all waiting. They are drinking raw sewage. Goleen has been waiting 25 years. Imagine drinking raw sewage. I was told that at a public meeting in Rosscarbery the other day. We need to move on these issues immediately and spend money correctly in the right place.

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

This is from an 88-year-old man from Bruree, County Limerick. He told me that as his TD, he wanted me to speak up in the Dáil about using Apple's unpaid tax money for building public and affordable homes and to say that the next Government has a chance to finally tackle our biggest shame as nation, which the fact that so many people are forced into debt, despair or poverty because we do not have affordable homes. He said he looked forward to hearing me call this out in the Dáil.

We are back again to what I have been saying for almost five years, which is infrastructure. A comprehensive strategic infrastructure study for Limerick was carried by the Land Development Agency in 2020 but it has never been published. Why? The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage has this report but it has never been published. Who is the Government protecting? Which property developers is it protecting? Why do we not have the infrastructure so we can build affordable houses in Limerick for the current and future generations? Again, it is another cover-up by Government. Taxpayers' money paid for this study but it has not yet been published so I am asking the Minister to give me the study carried out by the Land Development Agency in 2020.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

Health services are totally underfunded and understaffed at the coal face. We need more GPs, residential care for people with physical and intellectual disabilities and hospital beds. People on waiting lists are suffering agony, pain and anxiety. Many people would have lost their eyesight were it not for the hundreds of people we bused to Belfast. Infrastructural work for sewerage and water schemes is critical for house building. It is not there are the moment. We need to make houses more affordable. There should be a help-to-buy scheme for second-hand houses. Regarding rural cottages and people with a site of their own, this is not being approved by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. Income thresholds for social housing need to be increased. Water will be one of the biggest issues in the very near future because people are not getting it and Irish Water is not funded properly to carry out all the infrastructural works that need to be done so funding for infrastructural works is needed along with making houses more affordable. The Government is saying that it is doing wonders with housing. It could tell people to build smaller houses and maybe the money will go further.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I have one and a half minutes to deal with this complex issue, which is barely enough time to take a bite of an apple and trust that it is not rotten. I would use the word "rotten" regarding the deal that was done, which goes back as far as 1991 and 2007. Earlier this month, the ECJ told us that Ireland granted Apple unlawful aid, which Ireland is required to recover. The behaviour of the Government representatives in different interviews is cringeworthy regarding the amount - €14.1 billion. Let us be precise - €14.1 billion is what the Minister told us today we are going to get. The question is: what other deals were done and with what other companies? Let us remember that this came to light as a result of testimony by Apple representatives in the US.

Let me look at what should be done. Regarding infrastructure, I agree with Deputy McGuinness that this should be the start of a discussion. If I look at County Galway and what the Parliamentary Budget Office has told us, 115,425 households are in need. This equates to 235,000 people. There are no houses available in Galway city. Infrastructure is needed but that is not to be decided by the Government whose behaviour is cringeworthy to any rational person; that will be decided by the people of Ireland through the new Dáil that will be elected.

Deputy Marian Harkin

My time is short so I wish to emphasise the critical importance of tax justice nationally and internationally and how Ireland must play a full proactive role in ensuring social solidarity in the global tax regime. Knowing how political the Commission can be, I was initially concerned about what we would call competence creep but the ECJ has backed the Commission and we have to learn lessons and move on.

A sum of €14 billion is a very substantial pot and while everybody, including me, has a shopping list, it is essential that the Government ensures a balanced spread across the regions. The figures for the northern and western region are staggering. They show it lags far behind other regions when it comes to Government spend. The regional assembly figures show that since 2016, with 17% of the population, just 11% of projects in excess of €1 million were committed to the region and, shamefully, only 5.7% of projects in excess of €20 million. This is a bare one third of what we should get. Last year, housing completions in the region were at 11% for 17% of the population.

We are way behind when it comes to Government investment. Projects such as the upgrade of the Knock to Collooney section of the N17, the full upgrade of Sligo University Hospital, the double-tracking of the Sligo-Dublin railway and a fair share of housing, to name but a few, have to be on the priority list of this and the next Government.

Deputy Joan Collins

The Apple tax ruling shows who this country is run for. This is a country run by the rich for the rich. We are a wealthy country but working-class people and communities and rural communities see very little of this. The top 1% in Ireland has €232 billion in wealth whereas the bottom 50% owns €9 billion. There is an inequality crisis in Ireland. There is a deep need for change so ordinary people get their fair share. While Apple spent decades paying less than 1% tax on billions worth of profits, with a doff of the Government's cap, the Government spent €10 million to defend its right to do so. While Irish workers pay 15% more tax than their EU counterparts and have to live with a broken housing system and failing public services, the Government spends decades fighting and denouncing popular citizens’ protests on water charges, anti-austerity campaigns and bin charge protests, taking money out of the pockets of lone parents and ensuring that therapies for special needs children are not available. This is all we need to know about who our political establishment represents.

There is a debate around the country about what to do with the Apple money. The reality is that decades of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael rule have left us with little choice. We need to get this money into the building of more public housing, affordable housing, cost rental housing, healthcare, mental healthcare, better infrastructure and more funding for communities. This is an opportunity to help communities struggling from years of austerity and State neglect.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

First, if we are to build houses, we need infrastructure, water and sewerage, so money has to go towards that, probably a few billion euros. Second, at a meeting in Limerick, we discussed the designated maritime area plan, DMAP, for offshore wind but the Government had not done anything about it. If that is the opening to the huge potential of wind turbines 30 miles off our coast, we need a road along the coast to serve the infrastructure. We need to upgrade the M20, the road from Galway to Donegal, the Mullingar to Westport road, with a spur across to Sligo, and the road from Cavan across Monaghan to make sure we are interconnected. Money also needs to be put towards affordable housing. We are at a stage where the people who are working hard every day cannot afford a house, and we need to put money towards that. We need prudent spending on infrastructural projects that will benefit us down the road, and not throw the money away in bits and pieces only to end up with no reward.

There is a huge opportunity to get this country kick-started. On top of that, in the area of public transport, we need light rail in Cork and Galway. However, we need to make sure that the decisions we make are prudent. The €14 billion will not be enough to do what we need to do over the next five to seven years to kick-start the country, give it the infrastructure it needs and, above all, tilt the balance back towards rural Ireland. If we look at the statistics quoted already, the west and north west are lagging behind. We could bring a new boom from Ringaskiddy right up to Donegal if we put in the infrastructure properly.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Wynne, who is sharing time with Deputy MacSharry.

Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne

The way in which this case was handled points to the wider issue of a culture problem, the same culture problem that we have seen play out in RTÉ and the same culture problem that saw €19 million of funding redirected from vital children’s services, and we still do not even know where that went. The pattern is fast emerging. The Government spent a record €2.4 million transporting students to school by taxi in County Clare last year but cannot put timetables at bus shelters. The Government cannot afford a 90-minute Leap card travel window outside of Dublin but preaches regional balance. The Government has children waiting more than two years for vital scoliosis surgery when only 10% of children are receiving their assessments of need within the statutory six months. Families are facing huge costs for private assessments. They must be reimbursed and not foot the bill for Government failure.

With regard to UHL, the HIQA review is a delaying tactic. We need a commitment from the Government for an additional emergency department in the mid-west and for that to be specifically in County Clare. It is the only hospital dealing with such a huge population.

Deputy Marc MacSharry

Rather than thinking too locally or too prudently, for the first time, this and the next Government need to think strategically. We have talked for 50 years about balanced regional development and Deputy Harkin and others have raised the infrastructure deficit on the western seaboard. Never did we have a situation where we had money we did not want and, it seems, did not need, yet there is so much that we could do with it strategically. I appeal to the Government to devote it, in a positive discriminatory fashion, towards that infrastructure deficit, which will not only benefit the Atlantic seaboard by improving the potential of the west, north west and Border regions, but will also act to give the eastern conurbation the much-needed breathing space it needs to catch its breath to be able to continue as the economic driver we need it to be. I appeal that it be used in that way, not as an individual shopping list for any constituency or region in particular, but to address what has consumed the State since its foundation, which is regional imbalance. We did not want the money, we did not need it and we spent money trying to give it back. It is now ours. Do the strategic thing, not the prudent, local or politically expeditious thing.

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Neale Richmond)

I thank all the Deputies who have spoken today from such a vast array of positions on this vital topic. The Apple case has been a high-profile, long-running case. I am glad that we had the opportunity to discuss it at some length in the House and it was pertinent that we did so. We have heard today from Deputies addressing the history of the case, the reasons behind taking the case, the changed approach to corporate taxation since the timeframe the case relates to and, of course, what comes next now that the judgment has issued. I will touch on all of these points again.

The Minister, Deputy Chambers, laid out the context of this case. Last week's judgment from the Court of Justice of the European Union was the final stage in a complex process that has been under way since 2016. The Minister laid it out in quite some detail so I am loath to repeat it but I was taken aback when Deputy Tóibín cited the Minister's departure and then proceeded to depart himself two minutes after giving out about it, a mild irony that was not lost on me. In all seriousness, it is important that I reiterate that this case involved an issue that is now of historical relevance only. The Revenue opinions at the heart of the case date back to 1991 and 2007 and are no longer in force. Ireland has introduced changes to the law regarding corporate residence rules and the attribution of profits to branches of non-resident companies operating in the State. These decisions were made by the Government of the day, not by Opposition Members, despite their claims

As has been discussed at length and already laid out, to comply with the 2016 decision, the alleged state aid was placed by Apple in an escrow fund, with the proceeds to be released only when there had been a final determination in the European courts. The amount transferred by Apple was calculated by Revenue on the basis of the decision and consisted of €13.1 billion in recovered state aid and €1.2 billion in EU interest. This escrow fund has been carefully managed since its establishment and now holds assets valued in the region of €14.1 billion. The escrow fund was established on the basis of a very detailed confidential legal agreement between Apple and relevant state parties. This agreement addressed how the money would be transferred in, how the parties would work together while the fund was operating to manage the fund and how the money would transfer out of the fund when the legal proceedings were complete, covering the range of possible results. This agreement is the basis on which the escrow fund will transfer to the State. The process for transferring it to Ireland is not simple and it will take time. It is likely to be at least six months before the transfer is complete and the escrow fund is closed. However, I can confirm that the necessary engagements with all parties are under way to ensure the transfers take place as smoothly as possible.

The issue of whether other countries will make claims on the money in escrow has arisen in discussions on this judgment. The escrow arrangements took this possibility into account and a mechanism was agreed whereby, in the event of such claims, a payment out of the escrow fund could be made to Apple to account for the profits taxed in third countries and not, therefore, fall to Ireland. The making of these adjustments was not dependent on the outcome of the legal proceedings in the European courts and so could proceed ahead of any final determination. Such third country adjustments have taken place on two occasions since the establishment of the fund. Some €209 million was returned to Apple during 2019 and a further third country adjustment took place in May 2021 for €246 million.

Therefore, a total of €455 million has been paid out of the fund in third country adjustments since 2019. As has been stated by the Minister, Deputy Chambers, we are not currently aware of any further claims which could arise if third countries claim that taxes were due by these companies in those jurisdictions.

Another key focus and commentary on the Court of Justice of the European Union result has been to ask what will be done with the money when it is transferred to the Exchequer. We have heard a number of suggestions in the media and again today. Many politicians have had this money spent time and again over the past few years. Every time something needed to be paid for, it was suggested we could use the Apple money. As I have said, it will take several months for Ireland to receive this money and so the parameters for budget 2025 remain unchanged from those set out in the summer economic statement. Let me be clear, however, that this is a once- off payment and should not, will not and simply cannot be used to fund day-to-day spending. We need to be clear with the Irish people. We can only spend this money once and we must be responsible and targeted in how we spend it. We must use this money to benefit the Irish people and our country, economy and future. There is no doubt about that.

I must pay credit to each of the Deputies, not all of them, who stood up and said they would not give a shopping list of demands and desires before proceeding to give a shopping list of exactly how this money should be spent, largely in their own constituencies. I pay credit to those Deputies, such as Deputies MacSharry and Fitzmaurice, who rightly identified that infrastructure is key to this. We will use this money in a targeted way to improve our country for the long term, improve our infrastructure and build more homes while protecting the economy.

I will say a few words about international taxation more generally. The framework for international taxation has changed significantly in the past decade. Ireland is an active participant in international tax discussions and has also made necessary changes to its taxation regime as international tax rules have developed over time. We have seen the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, show great leadership on this issue through his role as president of the Eurogroup but also as an individual Government Minister. This has been of massive benefit to Ireland and the wider economy.

When talking about multinationals in Ireland that pay corporation tax, such as Apple, it cannot and should not get lost in the discussion that tens of thousands of people in this country wake up every single day and go to work at these firms. They rely on these firms to support their families and contribute to their local economy. Let us not forget that many of these firms are based outside Dublin. They are crucial to their local community and every single job in these multinationals leads to at least three other jobs in those communities. Let us not lose sight of that in this discussion or any wider discussions of the importance of this sector to our economy.

This has been a complex and long-running legal case. Last week's judgment marks the end of this process and relates to a legacy issue. The taxation framework, both internationally and domestically, has changed since the timeframe covered by the Commission's decision. Our focus must now be on the future. Work is under way to prepare for the transfer of the funds from escrow to Ireland. The Taoiseach and the other leaders of the Government have already begun the process of deciding how and when these moneys will be spent. Many Deputies have said this needs to wait until after a general election. Neither I nor the Ceann Comhairle knows the date of the general election. It will happen when it happens and the budget will happen on 1 October. This money will be received within the next six months and we will have lengthy and multiple debates in this Chamber, on the airwaves and everywhere in between on how these moneys should be spent.

I will conclude on a word of caution. As I said, this money can be spent once. It cannot be the solution to every hot topic that comes up in a constituency clinic, on social media, on the radio or under Questions on Policy or Legislation. Now is a time for prudence and common sense. I fundamentally believe that is what we will see going forward in the delivery of these funds to be used for the delivery and protection of our people.

An Ceann Comhairle

Tá an-chuid céille ag baint leis an méid atá ráite ag an Aire Stáit ansin. Is é sin deireadh le ráitis maidir le breithiúnas Chúirt Bhreithiúnais an Aontais Eorpaigh, CBAE, sa chás maidir le cúnamh stáit d'Apple.

Dáil Éireann debate - Wednesday, 18 Sep 2024

CJEU Judgment in Apple State Aid Case: Statements

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 Sep 2024