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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Oct 2024

Vol. 1059 No. 5

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions

Air Navigation Orders

Matt Carthy

Question:

1. Deputy Matt Carthy asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will report on his engagements with his Cabinet colleagues regarding the use of Irish airspace or airports for the illegal transport of weapons of war, bound for use by the Israeli military. [40496/24]

Will the Tánaiste report on his engagements regarding the use of either Irish airspace or airports for the illegal transport of weapons of war, particularly those bound for use by the Israeli military?

As the Deputy is aware, the Minister for Transport has confirmed that his Department is examining the allegations made in the media regarding civil aircraft flights and the carriage of munitions of war.

I underline that it is expressly prohibited for civil aircraft to carry munitions of war in Irish sovereign airspace without being granted an exemption to do so by the Minister for Transport. The system of exemptions is operated by the Department of Transport under the Air Navigation (Carriage of Munitions of War, Weapons and Dangerous Goods) Orders 1973 and 1989. These orders implement the 1944 Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation, which provides that no civil aircraft may carry munitions in or above the territory of a state without that state's permission.

In 2023, and to date in 2024, no applications have been received or exemptions granted for the carriage of munitions of war on civil aircraft to a point in Israel. There have been allegations made in respect of a number of air operators over the past weeks. The Department of Transport is engaging with those air operators and working to establish the nature of the cargo concerned. This work is ongoing and will seek to ensure that any action taken is on the basis of established facts. At the end of August, the Department of Transport arranged for the issue of a notice to airmen, NOTAM. This served to further remind air operators of their obligation to seek an exemption to carry munitions of war.

It is important to draw a distinction between Irish sovereign airspace and Irish-controlled airspace. The provisions of the air navigation orders are only applicable within Irish sovereign airspace. This is not the case with regard to Irish-controlled airspace, which is a larger area of airspace where Ireland's role is limited to providing certain air traffic control services.

I assure the House that in considering any applications for exemptions in respect of munitions of war, the Department of Transport consults with the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of Justice on applications to determine if there are foreign policy or security considerations to take into account. This process includes the provision of advice from my Department in respect of international humanitarian law, Ireland's international obligations and our wider arms control, disarmament and non-proliferation policy.

I think everybody in the House will accept that applications have not been made and have not been given by Government, but for almost two months we have seen a drip feed of stories, particularly from The Ditch website, including one this week saying that our sovereign airspace is being used to transport weapons ultimately bound for use by the IDF in the ongoing slaughter taking place in Gaza, the West Bank and, more recently, in Lebanon. I take this opportunity to wish well and commend the members of the Irish Defence Forces based in Lebanon.

Has the Tánaiste established and is he satisfied that our sovereign airspace has been used for this purpose? If it has, what will be done by the Government to ensure it does not happen again?

We are extremely concerned by the situation in Gaza, the West Bank and Lebanon. We are conscious of the ICJ's advisory opinion in respect of the occupation of the Palestinian territories. Any policy or activity that would in any way be supportive of the occupation would run contrary to the Irish position, and indeed the international legal position now with regard to the ICJ's advisory opinion. On our sovereign airspace, the Department of Transport has not yet provided my Department with a definitive conclusion on the issues regarding the flights that stopped off in Belgium and then came through Irish airspace, as per the reports from an NGO in Belgium, which were then sent to ontheditch.com. I have not a definitive response yet from the Department of Transport or from the Minister. It seems to me that the only objective in violating Irish airspace would be saving fuel. We have to deal with the operators concerned, however, and any operators who violate the Chicago convention and our legislation.

Part of the problem is that since the Minister for Transport declared once and loudly that there were no circumstances where Irish sovereign airspace was being used for this purpose, he has gone silent on the matter. To my knowledge, he has not commented publicly in any definitive way. The journalists writing about this have been forthcoming in providing their documentary evidence. I know because I sought it from them, and they gave it to me. I do not even think the Government asked them for it, but I am told it was supplied to them, nevertheless. I do not get a sense that the Tánaiste considers this to be a serious matter. He stated that the only purpose would be to save fuel. At the end of the day, we are told that these flights contain serious weapons of war that are ultimately being used by the Israel Defense Forces. There are perhaps not an awful lot of unilateral things we can do as a State to register our protest against what Israel is doing, but surely one is to be able to say hand on heart that our airspace is not being used for this purpose.

First, we take the matter very seriously. On behalf of the Department of Transport we have contacted the Belgian Government with a view to getting that information formally from the authorities in Belgium. I referred to the objective of the airlines because, ultimately, they can go miles outside of our sovereign airspace and they would not be in violation of our laws or the Chicago convention but would still be transporting whatever cargo of weapons or whatever to wherever they want to go, including Israel. I make that point in the context of where we are. There are serious issues here, first in terms of violation of our sovereign airspace, and second our capacity and mechanisms to deal effectively and robustly with any airline that would deliberately violate our laws and the Chicago convention itself.

United Nations

Gino Kenny

Question:

2. Deputy Gino Kenny asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs the reason the Irish delegation did not join the many delegations that walked out during Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s speech at the UN General Assembly on 27 September in protest at Israel’s genocide in Gaza; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40782/24]

On 27 September Benjamin Netanyahu gave a speech at the UN. Many delegates left when he spoke. Why did the Irish delegation not join the many people who refused to listen to a warmonger like Netanyahu?

I thank the Deputy for the question. Ireland's membership of the United Nations is at the heart of our foreign policy. We take seriously our obligation to translate the values and principles of the UN Charter into action. Ireland has had a long-standing policy of engagement throughout the entirety of the opening of the General Assembly of the United Nations. In practice, this means our seat is occupied for each day of the high-level general debate and for every country's national statement. This demonstrates our commitment to diplomatic engagement and the importance of the United Nations as an institution. This sometimes means listening to viewpoints with which we disagree or where we have a fundamentally different perspective. This is part of the conduct of international relations and our diplomacy at the United Nations. Ireland expresses its views clearly in our statements and in the use of our vote at the United Nations. This has been the consistent policy of previous governments and one that I fully support.

The urgent need to address the conflict in the Middle East remains a priority for Ireland in our work at the UN. This includes ongoing support for efforts to achieve a ceasefire and hostage release deal and ensure the supply of humanitarian assistance at scale in Gaza, as well as our efforts to advance the two-state solution. We are also advocating for an immediate cessation of hostilities in Lebanon and the war there and a de-escalation of tensions across the entire region. I made those points very clearly in my address to the UN Security Council on 25 September. These points were further set out in Ireland's national statement in the UN General Assembly on 30 September.

Fundamentally, if we were to adopt the assertion or the policy the Deputy is suggesting, we would maybe be leaving our seat on more than one occasion. We might be leaving our seat on quite a number of occasions. The policy has been to listen, to argue and debate. Listening does not imply in any way an endorsement of anyone's policies.

These are abnormal times. Cordiality and protocol should go out the door. If the Tánaiste had been there when this warmonger was speaking, would he have listened or would he have left? Many people from across the world, particularly the developing world, left because they did not want to listen to this man who has killed more than 40,000 people in Gaza, including 21,000 children. If there ever was a situation in the world where people take a principled stand and say, “We do not want to give this man a platform or listen to him”, it was then. We have to go well beyond words in respect of this abnormal state and this warmonger. Again I say to the Tánaiste, when will this Government go beyond words?

I understand Ireland has been a little bit better than most European countries in terms of standing up to what is going on, but we can be much better in terms of going beyond words.

We have gone beyond words. I regret the Deputy does not have the generosity or the objectivity-----

I acknowledged it.

The Deputy said "a little bit". Come off it. I do not agree with him and I have to disagree fundamentally with him.

I will not acknowledge it again. I will not be so kind again.

Ireland has taken action in respect of the entire situation in the Middle East, not least the recognition of the State of Palestine, with Spain. We have called for a review of the association agreement, with Spain. We led the way in terms of our participation in the international courts, supported the ICJ advisory opinion in calling for it to be deliberated in the first instance, and also in terms of voting for the resolution after the ICJ advisory opinion, and much more.

What I find striking is that the Deputy never put down a question asking whether anybody walked out when foreign minister Lavrov spoke on behalf of Russia at the UN.

They should have done so.

The Deputy did not put down a question.

The Tánaiste has been very inconsistent. We have called for the expulsion of the Russian ambassador and the Israeli ambassador. Both of them should be expelled for the war crimes they are committing. The Tánaiste needs to go beyond words. One of the things we have been calling for is enactment of the occupied territories Bill. Can the Tánaiste imagine if the Government had done that? It is a very limited move against the Zionist state but can he imagine the signal that would send to the European Union and the world, that Ireland, a small country, is standing up against the Zionist state that is enacting terrible war crimes against the people of Palestine? Why can the Government not do that? I do not believe that there is legal advice out there saying it cannot do it. Of course it can do it, but it takes guts and guile to do it. The Government will not do it because it is afraid of the blowback from the United States. Essentially, that is what it is. The Government should have principle and guile and say it is going to stand up and have sanctions against the Israeli state.

I will deal with the occupied territories Bill. There is a question down later in respect of that.

I believe in diplomacy and diplomatic channels. That has to be maintained. The Deputy does not, because he has already said-----

How could you have diplomatic relations with a murderer?

I did not interrupt the Deputy. Can I have the floor, please? We could walk out for the speeches of ten ambassadors or permanent representatives at the UN because there are many countries whose policies we do not endorse. If everybody was to adopt a policy of walking out on one other's speeches, however, we would not have the UN General Assembly. With all its faults and flaws, the UN is, at least, the last bastion we have for the multilateral order. It is the only place where nearly every country in the world comes together at least to develop a dialogue and an exchange of communications. That is the essence of diplomacy. That is important.

But Israel will not even allow the UN Secretary-General into its country.

That involves many other conflicts, such as the Sudan crisis. There is the Russian war against Ukraine. There is the breach of human rights in many countries across the world. We could be walking out every second. Our permanent representative could be up and down like a-----

That is trivialising what I said.

That is the reality. I am not trivialising it.

The Tánaiste does this to everybody. Every single time, he tries to trivialise what we are trying to say.

There are terrible wars going on at the moment in the world, which is shocking, and which we condemn, by the way.

I thank the Deputies. We are moving on and we are going to listen to one other.

Export Controls

Matt Carthy

Question:

3. Deputy Matt Carthy asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will report on the advice provided to the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment regarding the provision of dual-use export licences for commercial products or services with military applications to Israel. [40494/24]

Licences for the exportation of what are called dual-use items, which are items that have a potential military use, are sanctioned by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, but only after consultation with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, according to the regulations. I ask the Tánaiste to report on the advice his Department has given to the Department of enterprise where applications for export licences in respect of these types of items for Israel are concerned.

The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment operates a rigorous and robust licence application process for the export of dual-use goods, which centres on a careful assessment of the proposed end user and end use. Under the Control of Exports Act 2023, which covers military and dual-use goods, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment may consult with any other Minister of the Government as he or she considers appropriate, including when considering applications for the authorisation of exports of dual-use items listed in annex I to the dual-use regulation.

The Department of Foreign Affairs does not advise the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with regard to the licence application outcome. However, my Department provides observations at the request of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. These observations are made with reference to the eight assessment criteria established in the Council Common Position 2008/944/CFSP, which include, "Respect for human rights in the country of final destination as well as respect by that country of international humanitarian law”, and, "Internal situation in the country of final destination, as a function of the existence of tensions or armed conflicts."

I assure the Deputy that my Department raises relevant human rights considerations in respect of all export licence applications received from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, including those concerning dual-use exports to Israel. The Department keeps its observations on end-use countries under ongoing review.

As I have made clear, the continuing violence in the Middle East is of grave concern. Ireland has consistently called for an immediate ceasefire and hostage release deal and a surge in humanitarian assistance to Gaza and an immediate ceasefire and humanitarian assistance in Lebanon.

My Department is closely following the situation in the region and always takes relevant developments into account when providing observations on export licences to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

Over the past year, as the genocide in Gaza in particular has intensified and as a global boycott campaign has grown, the Israeli economy contracted quite an amount. Its credit rating has been downgraded multiple times and its economy has suffered across virtually every sector. Yet, one area that is apparently booming is its trade in dual-use items with a military purpose with Ireland in particular which bizarrely saw a significant increase over the past year. I found out through a parliamentary question that 71 export licences have been provided by Ireland to states currently answering a case of genocide before the International Court of Justice. A scandalous 102 have been issued to states whose civilian or military leaderships are subject to arrest warrants sought by the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court.

Go raibh maith agat.

Will the Minister explain precisely what human rights provisions are taken into account? To my knowledge, no such export licence has ever been denied.

The Department of Foreign provided observations in 31 export licence requests where the end use country was Israel in 2024. The Department of Foreign Affairs previously provided 116 cases of foreign policy observations generally across the board to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment on dual-use export licence applications to Israel since 2020, over the past four years. In line with the Control of Exports Act 2023, my Department reviews all dual-use export licence applications received from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment against the eight assessment criteria set out in the Council common position. All of the applications are assessed on a case-by-case basis giving due consideration to that Council common position defining common rules governing control of the export of military technology and equipment. It is a rigorous licence application process which centres on the careful assessment of the proposed end user and end use.

I am told there is a quote in respect of a number of licences and the fact that they have grown that they raise a higher or potentially more serious risk of misuse because they are going to state agencies or linked companies. That is in respect of dual-use items exported to Israel. To be clear, when a state, whether it be Russia, Israel or any other oppressive state, is currently engaged in a hostile military action leading to the deaths of civilians, we should not send them any materials with a potential military use. The Minister can correct me if I am wrong, but I am not aware that any such licence application has been turned down. That does not speak to a rigorous regime; it speaks to a regime that is basically a box-ticking exercise. It is impossible to believe that of every one of these licences, which have increased in alignment with the war in Gaza, not a single one has been deemed ineligible.

Go raibh maith agat.

Does the Tánaiste agree that this process needs to be reviewed?

I am not so clear the Deputy is correct. He needs to drill down and engage with the Department of enterprise on that question. Concerning dual use in the modern era, with the advance of technology people can assert a dual use for almost anything today, sometimes for negative reasons. I was at the Rafah crossing some months ago and saw built up in every warehouse a range of goods for humanitarian purposes which the Israeli Government and IDF labelled as dual use. One can see how dual use frameworks and regulations can be abused to suit one's own agenda. In this case, education packs, medical facilities and generators were not allowed into Gaza in a shocking manner. It was appalling to see such abuse of dual use regulations by the Israeli Government.

They are not items that need a dual-use licence, in fairness.

The point is that the Department of enterprise goes through this and seeks advice in respect of it. To be fair to all concerned, the Deputy needs to go through each licence application with the Department of enterprise to drill down and see the decision made against the criteria it has to use.

We are way over time.

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