Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 22 Oct 2024

Vol. 1060 No. 3

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Hildegarde Naughton)

I move:

Tuesday's business shall be:

- Motion re Thirty-Fourth Report of the Standing Committee of Selection and Appointment of Committee Cathaoirleach (without debate)

- Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2024 (to conclude within 57 minutes)

- Seanad Electoral (University Members) (Amendment) Bill 2024 [Seanad] (Second Stage) (to conclude within 1 hr 57 mins and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage on Wednesday)

- Motion to Instruct the Committee on the Maternity Protection Bill 2024 [Seanad] (to conclude within 62 mins and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage on Wednesday)

Tuesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Affordable Housing, selected by Sinn Féin.

Wednesday's business shall be:

- Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2024 (Second Stage) (to conclude within 1 hr 57 mins and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to the motion for a Financial Resolution for the Bill but not before 4 p.m.)

- Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2024 – Motion to Instruct the Committee (to conclude within 62 mins and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to the motion for a Financial Resolution for the Bill but not before 4 p.m.)

- Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2024 – Motion for Financial Resolution (to be taken without debate immediately prior to Committee Stage and any division claimed to be taken immediately)

- Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2024 (Committee and remaining Stages) (to commence no earlier than 4 p.m. and to conclude within 60 mins)

- Maternity Protection Bill 2024 [Seanad] (Committee and remaining Stages) (to conclude within 60 mins)

- Seanad Electoral (University Members) (Amendment) Bill 2024 [Seanad] (Committee and remaining Stages) (to conclude within 60 minutes)

- Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2024 (Amendments from the Seanad) (to conclude within 60 mins)

- Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 (Amendments from the Seanad) (to conclude within 1 hr 30 mins)

- Supplementary Estimates for Public Services [Votes 20 to 22, 24 to 26, 29, 32, 34, 37, 38 and 40] (back from Committee, to moved together and decided by one question and any division claimed to be taken immediately)

- Motion re Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 4 to 6, 9, 11 to 14, 17 to 19, 28, 30, 31, 33, 42 and 45] (any division claimed to be taken immediately)

- Finance Bill 2024 Financial Resolutions (to be moved together and decided by one question and any division claimed to be taken immediately)

Wednesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Public Health Service Staffing, selected by the Labour Party.

Thursday's business shall be Second Stage of the Family Courts Bill 2022 [Seanad] (if not previously concluded, to adjourn at 5.30 p.m.).

Thursday evening business shall be the Second Stage of the Equitable Beef Pricing Bill 2020.

Proposed Arrangements for this week’s business:

In relation to Tuesday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) the Dáil may sit later than 10.32 p.m.;

(ii) the time allotted to Government business shall be extended in accordance with the arrangements for that business;

(iii) private members’ business may be taken later than 6.12 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of Government business, with consequential effect on the commencement time for Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for the Housing, Local Government and Heritage; and

(iv) topical issues pursuant to Standing Order 37 shall not be taken and the Dáil shall adjourn on the conclusion of Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for the Housing, Local Government and Heritage;

2. the proceedings on the Motion re Thirty-Fourth Report of the Standing Committee of Selection and Appointment of Committee Cathaoirleach shall be taken without debate;

3. the proceedings on the Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2024 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 57 minutes, and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:

(i) the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:-

– opening speech by a Minister or Minister of State – 10 minutes;

– speech by representative of Sinn Féin – 10 minutes;

– speeches by representatives of the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group – 5 minutes per party or group;

– speeches by non-aligned members – 2 minutes; and

– a speech in response by the Minister – 5 minutes; and

(ii) members may share time;

4. in relation to proceedings on Second Stage of the Seanad Electoral (University Members) (Amendment) Bill 2024 [Seanad], the following arrangements shall apply:

(i) the first speaking round shall be in accordance with the arrangements agreed by-

(a) the Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for Second Stage, save that the times shall be halved in each case, and

(b) the Resolution of the Dáil of 20th September, 2023, in relation to 2 minutes for non-aligned members; and

(ii) on the conclusion of the first speaking round, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply, which shall not exceed 10 minutes, whereupon proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion: Provided that any division claimed on the Second Stage proceedings shall be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage on Wednesday

5. the proceedings on the Motion to Instruct the Committee on the Maternity Protection Bill 2024 [Seanad] shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 62 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:

(i) the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:-

– opening speech by a Minister or Minister of State – 7.5 minutes;

– speeches by representatives of Sinn Féin, the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group – 7.5 minutes per party or group; and

– speeches by non-aligned members – 2 minutes;

(ii) members may share time; and

(iii) any division claimed shall be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage of the Bill on Wednesday.

In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that:

1. subject to any arrangements agreed in relation to motions for Financial Resolutions and Supplementary Estimates, the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) the Dáil may sit later than 9.30 p.m.; and

(ii) the weekly division time may be taken later than 8.45 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of proceedings on the Motions for Financial Resolutions for the Finance Bill 2024;

2. in relation to proceedings on Second Stage of the Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2024, the following arrangements shall apply:

(i) the first speaking round shall be in accordance with the arrangements agreed by

(a) the Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for Second Stage, save that the times shall be halved in each case, and

(b) the Resolution of the Dáil of 20th September, 2023, in relation to 2 minutes for non-aligned members; and

(ii) on the conclusion of the first speaking round, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply, which shall not exceed 10 minutes, whereupon proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion: Provided that any division claimed on the Second Stage proceedings shall be taken immediately prior to the motion for a Financial Resolution for the Bill, but no earlier than 4 p.m.;

3. the proceedings on the Motion to Instruct the Committee on the Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2024 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 62 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:

(i) the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:-

– opening speech by a Minister or Minister of State – 7.5 minutes;

– speeches by representatives of Sinn Féin, the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group – 7.5 minutes per party or group; and

– speeches by non-aligned members – 2 minutes;

(ii) members may share time; and

(iii) any division claimed shall be taken immediately prior to the motion for a Financial Resolution for the Bill, but no earlier than 4 p.m.;

4. notwithstanding anything in the ordinary routine of business, the proceedings on the Motion for a Financial Resolution for the Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2024 shall be taken without debate immediately prior to Committee Stage of the Bill and any division demanded thereon shall be taken immediately;

5. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2024 shall be taken no earlier than 4 p.m. and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Health;

6. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Maternity Protection Bill 2024 [Seanad] shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth;

7. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Seanad Electoral (University Members) (Amendment) Bill 2024 [Seanad] shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage;

8. the proceedings on the amendments from the Seanad to the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2024 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour, and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments to the Seanad amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage;

9. the proceedings on the amendments from the Seanad to the Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour and 30 minutes, and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments to the Seanad amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice;

10. notwithstanding anything in the ordinary routine of business, the following arrangements shall apply to the Motions for Supplementary Estimates for Public Services [Votes 20 to 22, 24 to 26, 29, 32, 34, 37, 38 and 40]:

(i) the motions shall be moved and decided together by one question which shall be put from the Chair on the conclusion of proceedings on the Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022;

(ii) the proceedings thereon shall be taken without debate; and

(iii) any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately;

11. notwithstanding anything in the ordinary routine of business, the proceedings on the Motion re Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 4 to 6, 9, 11 to 14, 17 to 19, 28, 30, 31, 33, 42 and 45] shall be taken without debate on the conclusion of proceedings on the Motions for Supplementary Estimates for Public Services [Votes 20 to 22, 24 to 26, 29, 32, 34, 37, 38 and 40] and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately;

12. notwithstanding anything in the ordinary routine of business, the following arrangements shall apply in relation to the Motions for Financial Resolutions for the Finance Bill 2024:

(i) the motions shall be moved and decided together by one question which shall be put from the Chair on the conclusion of the Motion re Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 4 to 6, 9, 11 to 14, 17 to 19, 28, 30, 31, 33, 42 and 45];

(ii) the proceedings thereon shall be taken without debate; and

(iii) any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately.

In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) topical issues pursuant to Standing Order 37

(a) may be taken earlier than 7.24 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the adjournment of proceedings on Second Stage of the Family Courts Bill 2022 [Seanad], or where those proceedings conclude within the allocated time, on the conclusion thereof; and

(b) may be taken for 96 minutes and notwithstanding anything in Standing Order 37, more than four topical issues may be taken;

(ii) the proceedings on the Second Stage of the Equitable Beef Pricing Bill 2020 may be taken earlier than 8.12 p.m., and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of topical issues, with consequential effect on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil; and

(iii) the Dáil on its rising shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 5th November, 2024; and

2. the proceedings on the Family Courts Bill 2022 [Seanad] shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and adjourned at 5.30 p.m. and shall not be resumed on Thursday.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the Order of Business agreed?

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Not agreed.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

As the Government Chief Whip will know, we dissented from the schedule last week. What I want to raise right now is the poll in The Irish News today that reveals that for the first time there is no longer a majority in favour of remaining in the union. In 2015, the figure was 59.1%. Now it is 48.6%. Will the Government hold statements on this matter and to commit to it? We need to talk about planning responsibly for Irish unity. We need a citizens' assembly. We need to get real about this. All the evidence is that this is happening. We need to engage with the British Government about when the referendum will take place. Will the Taoiseach respond to the findings of that poll and tell us his plans for preparing responsibly for Irish unity? We look forward to those statements as soon as possible.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I welcome the Taoiseach's comments this morning that he is looking for a pathway to progress the occupied territories Bill. That is welcome. I also note, however, that he said it will be challenging to see it passed before the election, whenever that will be.

On this side of the House, I think we would all be willing to facilitate the speedy passing of the Bill, given the ongoing carnage we are seeing in Gaza and Lebanon and that we all want to see stronger and more effective sanctions on Israel and to seek to prevent and stop any further civilian deaths. Will the Whip and the Taoiseach facilitate the passage of the occupied territories Bill by giving time this week, next week or the following week in the Dáil so we can progress this important legislation for which there is strong support across the House?

Deputy Holly Cairns

I will speak on the same issue. As we speak genocide is happening in Gaza. We will probably never know the full extent of the death toll of the people lying under rubble. It is shameful that this State maintains economic, diplomatic and travel relationships with Israel, a state that is unashamedly committing war crimes by the second. The people of this country have wanted action for a long time. The Government has finally accepted that the occupied territories Bill is lawful, with amendments, but there will not be time to pass it as the Taoiseach will call an election. If the Government were truly committed to passing it, it would have. I agree with the previous Deputy that if we could make time and if there is any way to accelerate this, everyone would be willing to co-operate. Can we have time this week to debate it and to see the recommended amendments?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Another day, another Israeli massacre in Gaza. Since dawn, another 45 innocents have been slaughtered by this terrorist regime. Almost certainly, the weapons that killed those people came from the United States and possibly travelled through Irish airspace. The US military, which supports all this, is also using our airports. Will the Government give us the debate we asked for about the transport of Israeli weapons to kill people in Gaza and Lebanon? Will it allow that debate and can we include in it an explanation as to whether the Government will do anything about the fact the Central Bank is facilitating the sale of war bonds by Israel, which are explicitly being marketed as financing their slaughtering and butchering of innocent people in Gaza and Lebanon?

That is a disgrace in itself and something the Government could act on. Can we include in that debate an explanation from the Government about Ireland's role in the selling of those war bonds?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Where will the Taoiseach's credibility be now that he says he will have an election before year end? He told us all the time it would be at the end of term, which is next February or March. Now we will have a trapeze act with the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, pulling the curtain down on this House. One of them might pull it faster than the other. When will it be finished after all their machinations? They should be in the circus rather than here.

I object to the Order of Business this week because there are six pieces of legislation and seven hours and 27 minutes to debate them. It is all rushed and guillotined legislation, including some very important legislation on the agenda. Included is the hate speech Bill. Government Members do not want people to have the right to speak freely or openly. They will not look after them in any way, shape or form, or even give a date so they can vote them in or out. Now they want to muzzle them and the hate speech Bill is to be guillotined tomorrow. It is time they went to the country, got off their trapeze, pulled the curtain and let us off.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I add our voice on the need to have the occupied territories Bill passed through the House. It is vitally urgent. It is time we went beyond rhetoric and took some actions to ensure the Bill is passed to hold Israel accountable for the slaughter it is carrying out.

The Taoiseach

I am a little bit confused by Deputy McGrath. On the one hand, every day he wants me to call an election - "Get them out and have an election". The next day he is very upset we might have an election and it will be rushed.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Bring it on anois.

The Taoiseach

Thank you very much. We will reflect on your views and come back to you on it. There will be a general election shortly.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

Give us the date.

The Taoiseach

The Deputies are here long enough to know that is not how it works at all. We have made it clear we will pass the Finance Bill and there will be an election.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Trick or treating, I would say you were.

The Taoiseach

It will take place this year and will be on a Friday. It does not take a genius to work that out.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

It will be the 29th.

The Taoiseach

On Deputy Mac Lochlainn's point regarding the unification of our island and a poll, which I have yet to see but will read, my priority and that of the Government has been to get the institutions back up and running, working with the Deputy's colleague, the First Minister, and with the deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland, having a reset of Anglo-Irish relations and investing significant amounts in a shared island and shared future. There will be a legitimate conversation and debate to be had during the general election about what that next five years of work looks like. I am sure all parties will bring forward their ideas and I look forward to engaging constructively on that. If there is time to schedule a debate in the coming weeks, that is something we could consider at the Business Committee.

Deputies Bacik, Cairns, Pringle and Boyd Barrett raised the occupied territories Bill. The factual position is today the Tánaiste briefed the Cabinet on the revised Attorney General advice. The Tánaiste has reached out to the sponsor of the Bill, Senator Frances Black, who has done a lot of work on this issue. It is not that the Government has changed its mind or position; the Government has always wanted to use every lever at its disposal. It is the fact the reality has changed with the ICJ advisory opinion. That is what the legal advice is based on. We can agree or disagree on that but I am speaking to the Government's position. The ICJ advisory opinion places an obligation on member states in relation to what is unlawful occupation. In that context, the AG has now advised the Cabinet that there may be a pathway to try to progress legislation.

I will not get into, on the floor of the Dáil, the significant changes that may be required. That is a conversation for the Tánaiste to have with the sponsor of the Bill and with the Opposition. The Tánaiste is engaging with Senator Black. I am sure we can provide further engagement for the Opposition. I am happy to ask the Tánaiste to do that. I am doing that with the view to hoping I can sign a money message that allows the Bill to be considered in the context of amendments that certainly will be required by the Tánaiste. I do not want to get into a ruaille buaille on the timescale. This will be complex. There is a lot in this and the most important thing, first, is for people to be briefed on it. The Tánaiste has been in contact with the sponsor of the Bill already. I am happy to keep in close contact with party leaders on that.

On overflights and the new issue Deputy Boyd Barrett has raised, the Minister, Deputy Ryan, has indicated he is happy to have that debate. If we have the ability to schedule it in the week the Dáil comes back after its recess, we are open to that.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the proposed arrangements agreed to?

Deputies

Not agreed.

Question put: "That the proposed arrangements for this week's business be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 65; Níl, 55; Staon, 0.

Tá

• Brophy, Colm.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burke, Colm.
• Burke, Peter.
• Butler, Mary.
• Byrne, Thomas.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Cannon, Ciarán.
• Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
• Collins, Niall.
• Costello, Patrick.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Creed, Michael.
• Crowe, Cathal.
• Devlin, Cormac.
• Dillon, Alan.
• Donnelly, Stephen.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Duffy, Francis Noel.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Farrell, Alan.
• Feighan, Frankie.
• Flaherty, Joe.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Foley, Norma.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Harris, Simon.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Higgins, Emer.
• Humphreys, Heather.
• Lahart, John.
• Lawless, James.
• Leddin, Brian.
• Lowry, Michael.
• Madigan, Josepha.
• Martin, Catherine.
• Matthews, Steven.
• McAuliffe, Paul.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• Moynihan, Aindrias.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Naughton, Hildegarde.
• Noonan, Malcolm.
• O'Brien, Darragh.
• O'Brien, Joe.
• O'Callaghan, Jim.
• O'Connor, James.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Donovan, Patrick.
• O'Dowd, Fergus.
• O'Gorman, Roderic.
• O'Sullivan, Christopher.
• O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
• Ó Cathasaigh, Marc.
• Phelan, John Paul.
• Rabbitte, Anne.
• Richmond, Neale.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Smyth, Niamh.
• Smyth, Ossian.
• Stanton, David.
• Troy, Robert.

Níl

• Andrews, Chris.
• Bacik, Ivana.
• Berry, Cathal.
• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Brady, John.
• Browne, Martin.
• Buckley, Pat.
• Cairns, Holly.
• Carthy, Matt.
• Clarke, Sorca.
• Collins, Joan.
• Collins, Michael.
• Conway-Walsh, Rose.
• Cronin, Réada.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Cullinane, David.
• Daly, Pa.
• Doherty, Pearse.
• Donnelly, Paul.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Farrell, Mairéad.
• Fitzmaurice, Michael.
• Fitzpatrick, Peter.
• Gannon, Gary.
• Healy-Rae, Danny.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kelly, Alan.
• Kenny, Gino.
• Kerrane, Claire.
• Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• Mitchell, Denise.
• Munster, Imelda.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Murphy, Paul.
• Mythen, Johnny.
• O'Callaghan, Cian.
• O'Donoghue, Richard.
• O'Reilly, Louise.
• O'Rourke, Darren.
• Ó Broin, Eoin.
• Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
• Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• Pringle, Thomas.
• Quinlivan, Maurice.
• Ryan, Patricia.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Smith, Duncan.
• Tully, Pauline.
• Ward, Mark.
• Whitmore, Jennifer.
• Wynne, Violet-Anne.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hildegarde Naughton and Cormac Devlin; Níl, Deputies Mattie McGrath and Pádraig Mac Lochlainn.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

I have a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Cannon has a point of order.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

I have a point of order and it is important. The Leader of the Opposition corrected the record this morning on a teenager's age but there is a major issue outstanding and it needs to be addressed today.

The Leader of the Opposition knew last year-----

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

Have a look at your own.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

-----that a child was being targeted by a Member of the Oireachtas.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

Have a look at your own.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

It is a point of order.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is point-scoring.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not a point of order, Deputy.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

Perhaps messages were being sent from this very building-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry, Deputy. It is not a point of order.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is only point-scoring.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

The reputation of this institution is at stake.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is only point-scoring.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry; it is not a point of order.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

That is fine.

An Ceann Comhairle

Find some other way to raise it as a point of order should you wish, but it is not a point of order at this juncture.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

He needs to have a look at his own; look at your own seats.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

We have had the debacle of the Government's bicycle shed, its security hut, the doubling of costs for modular homes, €9 million for phone pouches and, of course, the mind-blowing cost overruns for the national children's hospital. The list goes on and on. We discover now, however, that over six months the Government has spent almost €500,000 of the people's money on private jets to meetings in Europe.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

A latter-day emperor.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

That, to me, is an astonishing sum over such a short period of time. Can the Taoiseach please give us some response as to how that represents value for money? That is €500,000 on travel for the Taoiseach on private jets. Even by the standards of Fine Gael, that is certainly extravagant and self-indulgent at a time when students, families and workers are struggling. How does the Taoiseach justify such wastage and extravagance on himself?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

He is an emperor.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach, please.

The Taoiseach

Of course, my travel arrangements are the same travel arrangements that have been in place for taoisigh for many years.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

That is not an answer.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

No.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

There is no justification.

The Taoiseach

It would be the same if you were there.

Deputy Alan Kelly

As the election is approaching us, the perennial and biggest issue in the mid-west will be the health services, as the Taoiseach can appreciate. The issues in UHL cross over into counties Tipperary, Limerick and Clare and further afield. I have direct experience of these. I have spoken on no other issue more than this. My direct experience currently is that my dad has been in the UHL suite of hospitals for the past four weeks. I had to convince a crying 85-year-old man, my own father, to actually go in because of all the reports relating to the hospital of which the Taoiseach is well aware. I really want to know the following. As we head into the election, I would like a series of dates to be provided. The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, said the new 96-bed block will be open in the first quarter of next year, but the head of the HSE, Mr. Bernard Gloster, said it will be the middle of next year. Which date is accurate? The people of the mid-west need to know.

Second, the nursing home in Nenagh, which was taken over by the HSE for acute care, is going to open whenever the 96-bed block is open, yet it is offering one-year contracts with €5,000 incentives for foreign workers to come in.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy. The time is up, and it is one question only.

Deputy Alan Kelly

When will that open? It depends on the first date. Finally, the Minister and the Government committed to opening the medical assessment units, MAUs, for 24 hours. That is not happening.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy. Please, the time is up.

Deputy Alan Kelly

On the 96-bed unit, the community nursing unit, CNU, and the MAUs, we need those dates confirmed by this Government before the election.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy, the time is up.

The Taoiseach

First, I send my best wishes to Deputy Kelly's dad. I appreciate the importance of the point the Deputy is making. I will ask the Minister for Health to provide him with the timelines for those three projects. I want to make sure he gets the accurate information regarding the 96-bed unit, the CNU and the MAUs. We have invested a lot in University Hospital Limerick. We are also doing a lot more than just investing in the capacity because serious changes were needed in that hospital. I will get the Deputy those timelines. I will ask the Minister to send them to him.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

I want to correct something that was stated earlier because facts do matter. Agriculture is actually the most significant pressure on water quality in this country. That is from the EPA, and Teagasc has said it as well.

The Taoiseach

No one said it was not.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

It was in relation to-----

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

The Taoiseach might read the Oxford report.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

I just wanted to state that.

I want to talk about the INTO survey results. These are really worrying. There are now more than 950 teacher posts vacant in primary and special schools across Ireland. Every one of those vacancies represents a classroom full of children.

As a TD for Wicklow, I am particularly worried because the survey results mention that there has been a significant increase in the number of vacant posts in our county and there are currently 38 projected substitute vacancies for Wicklow. What that means, in real terms, is 38 classes without a qualified teacher for the school year ahead. This is something that has been raised with me for a number of years. Indeed, one of the classes in our constituency had 37 children in it at the start of this school term. That is not teaching; it is just crowd control. What response will the Government have to this crisis in the education system?

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Whitmore. There are now more teachers than ever working in the Irish education system. In March of this year, there were 78,646 teachers employed, with less than 1% of resignations and less than 2% of retirements annually. The teacher allocation ratio in primary schools is now at the lowest level it has ever been but I accept the broader point in respect of shortages and that they exist in our constituency.

Budget 2025 included a bursary for student teachers to increase the number of qualified teachers in post-primary schools. This bursary is a €2,000 payment each year for the final two years of their undergraduate initial teacher education and it is contingent on a commitment to complete a minimum of two years post-qualification teaching service in a recognised school. This is one of the latest measures we have taken to try to increase teacher supply.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I have repeatedly raised the recruitment embargo by another name that the Government has imposed on the health service, the so-called pay and numbers strategy, which is limiting the ability of hospitals and health services to recruit the staff they need to ensure safe staffing and proper patient safety in the hospitals. The Taoiseach is aware health workers are balloting for industrial action because of the Government's failure to address this.

On foot of me raising it in here, the Ireland East Hospital Group acknowledged at the end of September that there were, in fact, 21 vacant posts in my local hospital, St. Michael's Hospital. It said, presumably on foot of the fact that we raised the matter in here, wrote to it and put in parliamentary questions, that it was were to commence the recruitment to fill those 21 vacant posts in the hospital. I checked with the workers in the hospital, who were delighted to hear that news, in the past number of days. I asked them whether there was any sigh of the new recruits and they said, "Not a dicky bird." There has been no advertising for these 21 posts and no sign of new staff.

An Ceann Comhairle

All right, the time is up.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The hospital remains exactly as it was when the workers first raised this issue - chronically understaffed and not safe for patients.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy. The time is up.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Can the Taoiseach look into it or explain?

The Taoiseach

I will certainly look into the specifics and ask the Minister for Health to revert. We should be very careful in saying things about hospitals being not safe for patients. St. Michael's Hospital is a very good hospital providing very good care to many people, including my family, over the years.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I know that.

The Taoiseach

Let us not suggest the care being provided in the hospital is not safe. That is not a responsible thing to say in this House. The care in St. Michael's Hospital is safe and excellent. I will ask the Minister for Health-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Not if it is not staffed.

The Taoiseach

I will ask the Minister for Health to revert to the Deputy directly on the issue.

To put it in context, as of August of this year, there were 27,901 more staff working in the health service than there were in 2020. That is 9,375 additional nurses, 6,184 other people working across the hospitals, 4,092 health and social care professionals and 3,330 doctors and dentists. There are tens of thousands more people working in the health service now than there were when this Government came to office. On the specifics, we will follow up.

Deputy Michael Lowry

The number of taxis is having a detrimental impact on rural Ireland. In Tipperary, according to the most recent figures, there has been a drop to just 220 taxis despite a population growth of more than 4,000 people. This has an obvious negative impact on hospitality and retail services. Pubs and restaurants throughout Tipperary were already struggling with increased overheads and now they have a reduced number of clients as people are unable to get a guaranteed taxi service. Town pubs have lost rural customers and revenue due to a lack of reliable and affordable services. Many young people are left stranded after pubs and nightclubs close. This is damaging the social, cultural and economic aspects of local communities.

Securing transport is also a major issue for people who need to get to medical appointments or personal appointments or, in some cases, simply to get to their nearest town. I previously raised this growing issue with the Taoiseach. The Taoiseach mentioned that there would be a review. What is the position in respect of that review? Why can we not restore taxi services to viability?

The Taoiseach

I met some taxi drivers yesterday in Santry and they were highlighting a number of the challenges they saw in terms of the rigidity of the current system. There is a review under way. I will get the Deputy a timeline from the line Minister with regard to where that is at and when it is expected to have an output.

The point the Deputy makes is right. We need to see a partnership approach with regard to our taxi drivers, who are playing a vital role in the rural economy, but also safety. When someone goes on a night out or an evening out, they want to know they can get home safely, quickly and efficiently. They want to know who is behind the wheel, too. They want to have that safe service. I will ask the Minister for an update for the Deputy.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Tipperary ETB has been instructed to offload any buildings it is not using for education and further education purposes from the Department of Education to hit climate change goals. As such, Butler Charteris Hall in Cahir has been put up for sale despite it being used as a preschool for several years under a licence agreement with the ETB. This is farcical. Why does the Department of Education not talk to the Department with responsibility for childcare? Childcare is in crisis. We in Cathair Dún Iascaigh are fortunate, to have a lady, an iarmhúinteoir, and her daughter to run what is unique - a Montessori naíonra. Kathleen Ó Loinsigh and her daughter, Julia, are providing an excellent school there, with 44 daltaí - 44 little young people. I have been there. I have seen them, and they are from all over the world. They learn Irish more quickly than they learn any other language, Ms Ó Loinsigh tells me, and I have seen it. They are from up to 30 different countries.

It would be awful if this has to close because of a rule the Department of Education brought in without talking to the Department with responsibility for childcare. A bit of joined-up thinking would help keep this wonderful facility in a wonderful hall - it is a listed building - operating for the young people of Cahir.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy McGrath for his passionate belief in a service that clearly is making a positive impact in his community. The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, informs me that Tusla and the Department are engaging and talking on this. I will make the case to them that the Deputy has made here and see if we can make progress on the issue.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

A few comments have been made already by people in here who do not a lot about farming and the record needs to be corrected. The University of Oxford has done a study. It is printed in the Irish Farmers' Journal, for anyone who wants to read it. The article, entitled, "Sewage worse for rivers than farming", refers to treated or untreated sewage. The Deputies should get the Irish Farmers' Journal and have a read of that article. They might learn something about agriculture.

To get back to my question on policy or legislation, under agriculture, is the Taoiseach concerned about the Agriland figures published today? The number of cattle in the country has reduced by 4% to 6% in the past year, the suckler herd has gone down again and the number of sheep has also reduced by a large amount. Will the Government do something about that?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy is entirely right to call out the scare tactics that are applied in relation to farmers and agriculture. It is going on for far too long. Farmers have mental health, well-being and a livelihood. They have a family. They have a mortgage to pay, like everybody else in this country. People in this House speak about farmers in a way they would not speak about any other sector of the Irish economy. It has to stop. They do it for reasons of populism rather than reasons of science. Climate change is real and climate action is needed. Farmers need to change. They know it and they do not need a lecture from people who have never been on a farm in respect of how to make progress. I agree with the Deputy on this issue.

As regards the Agriland article and survey today, I am concerned because I believe it is entirely possible to continue to produce good, high-quality food in this country and save our planet, which is on fire. When one is elected to Government, one has to do more than one thing at a time. One does not have to set up straw man arguments that it is a choice of being on the side of the farmer or the side of the plant; one has to support both.

Deputy Brendan Smith

There is an urgent need for more flexibility by the Department of Education in applying the criteria for the retention of teaching posts where there is a short-term drop in a school's enrolment on 30 September but this drop in enrolment is reversed within a very short period of time, particularly by the end of that school term, bringing the school's enrolment up to the required threshold for the retention of its teaching posts. The loss of a teacher in a small school creates serious difficulties in trying to organise classes and impacts negatively on pupils, particularly children with additional needs. I am very familiar with one small school which has been informed by the Department that it will lose a teaching post even though it has supplied verifiable data to the Department that further enrolments will take place before Christmas and will exceed the required thresholds.

I know parents who have come to this country to live and work in healthcare and have children enrolled but the children may not be able to attend school by the start of the school term. That is applicable to the cases I am familiar with and I would appeal for every possible consideration to be given to the appeals submitted by small schools. Loss of teaching posts in smaller schools must be avoided if at all possible. The Minister, Deputy Foley, is familiar with this case and I will also provide the details to the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Smith for raising this case. I would be happy to take the details from the Deputy and to talk further to the Minister for Education.

I know the Minister, Deputy Foley, is conscious of these issues and gets the importance of them. We do need a system that is grounded in common-sense flexibility. I know the Minister shares that view. I am happy to take the details from the Deputy.

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

The national planning framework should be a cornerstone of our planning process underpinning the national development plan. It is absolutely vital to achieving our climate commitments, not just in the development of offshore renewables, which is pivotal in getting to our 2030 targets, but also about stitching in transport-oriented and transport-led development to make sure we can drive down our transport emissions as well. I represent a regional city. The NPF should absolutely be putting balanced regional development front and centre and ensuring the type of investment required to rebalance our country away from a Dublin-centric approach and out into the regional cities like Cork, Galway, Limerick and most importantly Waterford. We have to be serious about the NPF. Is this a piece of work we are going to get done in this Government?

The Taoiseach

The party leaders, including the Deputy's own colleague, the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, had a briefing on this matter with the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government yesterday. It is at a very advanced stage. It is something I would certainly like to see happen in the lifetime of this Government. I believe it is possible. It is obviously a collective decision and there is a little bit of work still to do. It is something I would like to see happen. I do think it is very important for our climate goals and for regional and transport-led development. It is also important for anchoring the policy discussions and debates we are going to have in the weeks ahead. It is sensible to have that document and if at all possible we should try to do that.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

In 2011 the accident and emergency department at Roscommon was closed. At that time a commitment was made by Fine Gael that there would be 24-7 advanced paramedic cover because we were further away from the nearest accident and emergency department. This commitment was made. Five years ago we had 13 advanced paramedics in the Roscommon ambulance base. Today we have three. The NAS keeps telling me it cannot fill the post yet at the same time it has suspended the training of advanced paramedics and has done so since early 2023. Just this morning on the radio there was a discussion about sepsis; 3,000 people die of sepsis every year in Ireland. An advanced paramedic can give the IV antibiotic but a paramedic cannot, and can only provide paracetamol and oxygen. An advanced paramedic is critical in a county like Roscommon where we do not have an accident and emergency department. I ask that the commitment made be honoured. This is life and death in some circumstances.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Kerrane for raising the issue. I know all too well the importance of advanced paramedic cover. The Deputy is quite right to highlight the difference between it and more regular paramedic cover. I would be interested and will inquire with the Minister for Health as to what is behind that fall-off in numbers. I will talk to the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly and revert to the Deputy directly.

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

I want to raise a serious issue facing the fishing sector. Norwegian vessels are plundering mackerel stocks. In conjunction with the UK and Faroe Islands, they have set themselves massively inflated quotas for mackerel. Scientific advice is saying that quotas should be reduced by 22% but it is the Irish and European boats that are going to have to face the 22% reduction. Meanwhile, while Norway is overfishing mackerel, they have unfettered and unchecked access to blue whiting, another important species off the west coast of Ireland. This needs to stop. Mackerel is an incredibly important species for big boats and for small boats. The sector is looking for the State to stand up it and most importantly for Europe to intervene, stand up to the Norwegians and stop this harmful practice before the species is brought to the brink.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue for fishermen and the fishing communities he represents. I will certainly talk to the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, about this issue and, if the Minister believes it appropriate, am very happy to assist in raising and escalating this at European level.

Deputy Brendan Griffin

I want to ask the Taoiseach about the Farranfore to Lissyviggeen N22 road scheme, the Killarney outer bypass scheme. Traffic congestion in and around Killarney town is now a serious issue. On the doors at the weekends, the issue is constantly coming up. People are very frustrated with the time it takes now to travel in and around Killarney. During my time in politics this has proven to be one of the most frustrating issues I have dealt with. Unfortunately, I am leaving at a time when it has not been progressed. I was glad to see the N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom section completed in my time and certainly moved forward during my time in the Department of Transport. This particular project has proven very frustrating. Will the Taoiseach ensure this is a priority in any future Government he will be involved with? It is badly needed for the socioeconomic life of Killarney and the surrounding districts and needs to be prioritised.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Griffin for raising this issue and I look forward to discussing it further in Killarney in the next couple of days. My understanding is technical advisers were appointed for the scheme in April 2020. I have been told that the Department of Transport has advised that TII can provide the money required to Kerry County Council to progress the route option selection phase. A preferred route is expected in quarter 4 of this year, in other words by the end of the year. Absolutely this is a project I will take a very active interest in and I will continue to keep in touch with the Deputy and his colleagues on it.

Deputy Martin Browne

I see the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, is there. I would appreciate if she or the Taoiseach could find out more for me about the community nursing home for Cashel. The latest information from the HSE, 20 months since indicating it was considering other sites outside of St. Patrick's, is that no decision has been made. It is now nearly 17 months since Palmer's Hill was confirmed to be considered. There is €184,000 spent on consultants' reports and the HSE has nothing to report but a vague commitment that something may happen before the end of this year. It is not right for the elderly people in Cashel and surrounding areas to rely on half promises that something might or might not happen at some sage in the future. The people of Cashel need certainty that this unit will be delivered, and we need that certainty now. Like Scoil Aonghusa in Cashel as well, they have been approved funding for an extension but still nothing is happening other than €1.5 million for second-hand prefabs, another waste of money, which take over half the car parking spaces on them.

I do not want to be cynical here. We want to know what is happening now.

An Ceann Comhairle

All right. We will try to find out for you.

Deputy Martin Browne

Is it going to be used in the next couple of weeks as an electioneering promise by some of the candidates?

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Mary Butler)

There are no half promises in relation to CNUs. The Government in 2016 announced a massive project to rebuild 90 CNUs across the length and breadth of the country. Some 48 of them are concluded. We lost two years during Covid as I think everybody would understand. There are seven currently under way, one in Clonmel in south Tipperary which will be handed over to the HSE in quarter 1 of next year. In respect of the one in Nenagh, there are no half promises. It is on the capital plan. The HSE has stated that it is currently trying to get the best site suitable for the people who will be living in this. It will be their home from home. Just lest there be any ambiguity here, the residents who will eventually move into the new CNU are currently being well looked after in Nenagh.

Deputy Martin Browne

Come down to south Tipperary, to Cashel.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are out of time but will give 30 seconds to each of the four remaining Deputies.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

What has this Government of Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and the Green Party got against the people of Kerry? For a number of weeks the ophthalmology unit in Tralee general hospital has been closed. There are over 800 people waiting on different lists to be seen in the eye unit in Tralee. It has been there since the foundation of the State and it is closed down now. We are doing our best to take what we can of the people to the North of Ireland and it is an awful long journey. There are other things that happen to people, when something goes into their eye when they are working, and there is no place for them to go. I am asking when the Government will reopen it.

An Ceann Comhairle

All right. We will try to get an answer. We are out of time. We have to go to the next person.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

This has gone on long enough now. It has gone on nearly a month.

An Ceann Comhairle

I know. Deputy Flaherty, please.

Deputy Joe Flaherty

I have to raise the case of a Longford family in the midst of the deepest, darkest crisis at the moment. Over the last number of months their 16-year-old son Jacob has subjected his parents to unrelenting violence. He has wrecked the family home, wrecked the family car and in recent weeks his three siblings have been dispatched to relatives and friends for their own personal safety. I personally saw him attack his father at the weekend. His mother rang CAMHS again on Friday only to be told that this is not a mental health issue but a behavioural issue and there was nothing they could do but refer him back to the children's disability network team. Without question, this young boy needs a period of residential care to assess what is triggering these outbursts and how best to equip the family for dealing with them. I sat in the family home on Saturday morning. I saw that the television was smashed, I saw no photos on the walls, they were smashed, I saw holes in the walls, I saw doors kicked in. As a matter of urgency, Taoiseach, can you direct CAMHS, the HSE and officials to liaise with the family and ensure that young Jacob is referred for residential assessment and care?

Deputy Patrick Costello

I need to raise again the issue of the lack of public health nurses in Old County Road health centre. I have raised several times before the fact that no developmental checks are being offered to small children and their families. These developmental checks are incredibly important for young children, for babies, for picking up future needs and for supporting young parents.

No developmental checks are happening there. I have raised this numerous times. My questions to the HSE are going unanswered. We need public health nurses in the Old County Road health centre doing developmental checks again as soon as possible.

Deputy Gary Gannon

Did the Taoiseach need a high-level task force, taking over five months to deliver its report, to tell him that Dublin city centre needed more gardaí? On 9 May of this year, when he said he would commission a task force report, he said it would take 12 weeks and that he would bring back its findings before the summer, with an expectation the budget would be allocated as such. We got a report yesterday with ten decent recommendations, in fairness, but they have all been mentioned before and there is no budget or plan. Essentially, the city was used for a photo opportunity. What is the Taoiseach planning on doing with our report?

The Taoiseach

To Deputy Healy-Rae, I will ask the Minister for Health to come back to him in respect of the ophthalmology unit in Tralee and the timeline for its reopening and to get him some details on that.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

You have actually cancelled-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please.

The Taoiseach

I will get the Minister for Health to revert to the Deputy directly on the issue.

I thank Deputy Flaherty for highlighting what sounds like an extraordinarily difficult and traumatic situation for Jacob and his family. I will speak to the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, about that. I know there was some funding in the budget to try to have better joined-up approaches between CDNTs and our mental health services. We will certainly engage with the Deputy on that.

To Deputy Costello, I will talk to the Minister for Health about the need for public health nurses in the Old County Road health centre and the importance of those developmental checks and ask him to revert to the Deputy directly.

I appreciate that Deputy Gannon has been supportive of the task force. It took a little longer than planned, although not a huge amount longer. That was at the insistence of the members, who were independent. The plan now is to have a full implementation plan for the next three years by the middle of December. Who knows who will be in government by then. Certainly, I hope what we have is a blueprint for the future of our city and that we can debate in the weeks ahead how best to fund it and the sequencing with which to advance it. I genuinely believe it can have a really positive impact on our city and, in particular, on O'Connell Street and Dublin 1 and 2.