Carer's Allowance: Motion [Private Members]

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

recognises:

— the crucial and vital role that carers perform in supporting their loved ones;

— that many carers are struggling financially and are receiving payments which fall way below the established Minimum Essential Standard of Living (MESL);

— that carers do their work with extraordinary dedication and deserve respect, and recognition; and

— that the Carer's Allowance means test currently excludes thousands of carers, and results in many other carers receiving reduced and inadequate payments;

regrets:

— the fact that the Government has, as of yet, not committed to abolition of the means test; and

— that carers are being told to wait until next summer to see any increases in their thresholds, instead of in January as with other social welfare beneficiaries;

notes that many carers can be forced to give up work suddenly to provide care and therefore face a cliff edge; and therefore, resolves that:

— the Government put in place a pay related carer's benefit scheme;

— the changes to Carer's Allowance means test thresholds contained in Budget 2025 must be brought forward to January 2025; and

— the means test for the Carer's Allowance should be abolished over the course of a term in Government.

We have debated this time and again in the Dáil and this will be the final time we will do so in this Dáil. It is also the final opportunity for the Government parties to make this commitment to carers. For our part in Sinn Féin, we are making this commitment to abolish the means test for carer's allowance. There is a reason this issue keeps returning to the agenda. It is because carers deserve respect and recognition but they also deserve support. We all know these people. We all know carers in our communities. We all know the sacrifices they make. We know how devoted they are. We know they are not doing it for money or payments. They are doing it out of love, responsibility, compassion and decency. We also know that if, somehow, all these carers decided to stop in the morning everything would grind to a halt. They save the State billions upon billions of euro every year. According to Family Carers Ireland, in 2022 family carers saved the State €20 billion.

The State simply cannot afford to do without their care, yet we have countless carers who are putting in the hours and providing the care, but are getting little or nothing from the State because of the means test. The means test is exacting and demanding of carers who are already under severe pressure. These are people, lest it be forgotten, who already meet the other conditions of the scheme, which are not small. They must provide full-time care. The Minister of State's Department has set down that they must work for 35 hours a week, for five to seven days. They cannot work any other job for over 18.5 hours. For all that, they might get practically nothing.

These carers are putting in the hours and providing the care, but because their partner is working, they may see much-reduced payments or indeed none at all. This is effectively a full-time job and often the only source of income for carers. In an interview conducted by Family Carers Ireland, one carer commented that it is the only job people are means-tested to do, and asked whether a nurse looking after somebody would be told by the Government that it will means test them? Another said they have a child who needs 24-7 care and they are working hard but because their husband is earning more than €800 or €900 a week, they do not get carer's allowance. It is so wrong.

This is not only the right thing to do, it is the wise and strategic thing to do. Thart timpeall an domhain, feicimid go bhfuil níos mó plé ar na costais atá i gceist le tithe altranais agus tithe cúraim do dhaoine a bhfuil gá acu le cúram. Tá an-ádh orainn sa tír seo go bhfuil líon na gcúramóirí teaghlach chomh láidir is atá ach ní féidir linn glacadh leis go leanfadh sé sin ar feadh i bhfad. Across so many countries, we have seen discussion of a crisis in social care. In the British election, it loomed large, as the cost of providing adequate nursing home care was debated. We are fortunate to have a strong network of family carers and people who care for their loved ones at home. In many instances, it is the preference of the carer and the person being cared for at home to be cared for at home but, too often, doing so is not sustainable, financially or otherwise. Abolishing the means test, while it will not solve every problem, will go a long way to providing the financial support for families to make caring at home possible. We should take every opportunity presented to us to protect care at home, and this one is crucial. We are also conscious that carers are often at risk of poverty, which is why it is crucial that the rates of payment to carers are increased over the term of Government.

It is also the case that many people find themselves as carers very suddenly. For that reason, we have proposed introducing a pay-related carer's benefit scheme in this motion to avoid the cliff edge as people manage the transition to being a carer. As I said, this is not only the right thing to do but the strategically wise thing to do. It is the Government's final opportunity to commit to this. We know this will not be done overnight but we are asking the Government to make that commitment to carers and to agree that this should be the destination. If the Government is not going to oppose this motion, it needs to make it explicitly clear that it will make a roadmap to ensuring that the carer's means test is abolished. Carers need respect and recognition but what they really need is support. It is not the case that we cannot afford to do this. We cannot afford not to do this.

Deputy Pauline Tully

Yesterday morning, I attended a hustings event organised by Family Carers Ireland. It laid out its asks of political parties going into this general election and what it wants to see included in every party's manifesto. At the top of that list was the abolition of the carer's allowance means test. It was going on what carers themselves were asking for. The room was full of carers and many carers joined us online too because they are not in a position to leave their homes and come to an event such as that. The feeling in that room was one of anger and of being ignored and taken for granted, and their needs not being met. As Deputy Ó Laoghaire said, it is reckoned that family carers save the State billions of euro every year. If one asks any family carer, they do not do what they do because of what money they might receive, but out of love and responsibility for the person they care for. They would not change it for the world but they need supports, which they are not getting at the moment.

People yesterday talked about the amount of care that they provide, around the clock in some cases. Parents talked about children with complex disabilities who may need to be turned over or seen to during the night. Others talked about their autistic children who do not sleep for more than two or three hours at a time. When the children are up, they are up, because they have to ensure the safety of their child. Another carer who is caring for her parents talked about how she gets so little sleep because her father has dementia. He does not realise what time of day or night it is and he may be up during the night as well, which means she is up to ensure that he is safe. Many of the carers in the room yesterday were providing care for over 30 years. I know of carers in my constituency who have been providing for even longer than that. Their main worry is what will happen to their loved ones when they pass and it is really upsetting for them. I was speaking to a carer in my constituency yesterday evening. She is a carer for her two sons. Her mother has also developed dementia. As that progresses, she knows she will be a carer for her mother too. She was in receipt of the carer's allowance, which is being reviewed because of her husband's wages. She has been cut off at the moment because she did not get the information that she requires. She is addressing that but she realises that it will be cut or maybe cut off completely. She is so disappointed because she is not in a position to go out and work and earn money. Her loved ones, her two sons and her mother in time, will require the care that she will provide, yet because her husband's earnings are over a certain threshold, she will be penalised.

Many carers talked yesterday about their treatment at the Intreo office or at the hands of staff of the Department of Social Protection. This is not to say that all of them are the same but some of them do not treat people with empathy. They tell stories where they are just left feeling worthless and are hauled over the coals about how many hours they worked in the week and whether they worked slightly over their 18.5 hours. We really need to trust that carers will provide proper care to loved ones and, if they are in a position to do a few hours of work outside the home or to undertake a training or educational course, that they will ensure they still provide the care that is required to their loved ones. I do not know about this restriction to 18.5 hours. It precludes them from taking part in a community employment scheme, for example, which would provide an outlet for many.

Sinn Féin has given a commitment to remove the carer's allowance means test in the course of one term of government. In our alternative budget this year, we would raise the threshold to €1,460 for a couple and €730 per week for a single person, which was far beyond what the Government was prepared to do. I think the Government only committed something like €11 million in additional funding to the carer's allowance scheme, where we would have committed €100 million. We would have made those changes from January. I cannot understand this delay in passing on the increases until July. That is not fair. The issue of being left to wait for seven months is not happening to any other sector. Many carers talked about the devastation of the lack of supports. Home care is a huge issue. Carers, especially where there are complex disabilities within the home, require people to come in to help them, perhaps to change the person or where a hoist is required, and they are regularly left high and dry, without that vital support. This is creating another pressure on them.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

I am proud that we are putting forward a motion to abolish the means test for family carers, many of whom take on the role of care, which they did not ask or look for, out of love. In many cases, it is for a child. In other cases, it is maybe for a parent. I was reminded of what was perhaps the first time that we heard from family carers at a committee meeting, when I sat on the committee on social protection. We had three family carers who came before us in May 2022. I was reminded of them. One of them was 65. He and his wife were caring for their twins who could not eat, drink, talk or walk.

They are non-mobile, use wheelchairs and are PEG fed. They function at the level of a nine-month-old baby but are in their late 20s. He said another thing, which is so common for all our family carers, "We love them to bits." He had to retire early from his job but told us even though he loved his job, he loved his girls more. He and his wife could not access the carer's allowance and, as he also said, his wife had to give up work. She had to give up a career that she loved and forfeit a salary and future pension entitlements. They could not access the carer's allowance. They also said, and this is an important point for our older carers in particular, "Our futures are bleak enough as it is, getting older and frailer and still minding our adult children when we are getting to a stage when we ourselves are beginning to need help." It is important that we remember that perspective of older people, as they get older and are still looking after their children. Two other family carers spoke on that day. One has a child with a life-limiting condition. That carer was awarded a carer's allowance of €12 a week but was then told it would need to be reviewed and if it were paid incorrectly, it would have to be paid back.

Many family carers are caring for loved ones because they love them. It is a tough job. In some cases, it is 24-7. They are not receiving any income support from the State. That is wrong. There is now an opportunity to signal to family carers in this State that if they care for their loved one, the State will financially support them. They deserve nothing less.

Deputy Pat Buckley

I thank Deputy Ó Laoghaire for bringing this powerful motion to the floor. It is about having respect for carers and those with disabilities, and giving them support and a voice. It is about doing the right thing. I hope the Government will not oppose the motion and will come on board and support these people who are affected.

As previous speakers said, these jobs are done out of love and necessity. It is 24-7. Last year or the year before, I raised a Topical Issue regarding a mother who had cared for a child for more than 26 years but had never received as much as one cent for caring for that child. She walked the child when she had a broken hip. She cycled a bike with one leg because the child had to be walked twice a day. The problem was the means test. As she was in what could be called a convenience marriage, or a marriage on paper, but it was not matrimony in the house, and her partner was earning so much, the mother of the child was told for 20-odd years that she was not entitled to carer's allowance. When I raised her case in the House, I was told that people can look into situations on a case-by-case basis. We did not know that until we raised it. How many more people are in the same situation as this lady was? I met that mother when it was sorted. She thanked me and said it was the first time in her life that she had a bank account. This is what it is about. It is about real-life people.

We have all heard terrible stories. I get emotional every time. I remember one little child who was on a beanbag because the carer did not have an appropriate chair for the child who was on oxygen 24-7. The mother had to give up her teaching job. She was crying beside her child because she was worried she could not even pay the ESB bill to keep the oxygen going. This is what is so important about getting these people the support. You cannot put a price on it. We all know carers are saving the country millions, but it is not always about money. It is about respect and giving people dignity. Those who are affected and need that care should have the best care, which should never be based on their means but on their needs. I hope the Government will support the motion.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

I thank Deputy Ó Laoghaire and colleagues for bringing forward this very important motion. It has the potential to be transformational. It is a necessary measure. People have mentioned the importance of it in recognising the work carers do. It is about valuing and respecting carers. It is a question of dignity and trust. I will make the point that it is usually women who are affected by this measure. It is certainly a gendered issue, but it is ultimately about the issue of recognition and trust.

I will make the case that carers should be trusted in their role. Their advice should be trusted as well. I will raise a particular case, where carers and parents are raising concerns about a development in County Meath. The special care unit at Johnstown looks after children with profound physical and intellectual disabilities. A proposal has been made to move the children in question to a new special school unit at St. Mary's Special School. Currently, nine children have the care of three nurses and eight care staff. It is proposed, when they go to St. Mary's Special School, that they will have one teacher, two SNAs and one nurse, and the care staff will not come with them. I have raised this with the Department of Education, the Minister for Education, the HSE and the Minister for Health, but there is no movement on it. Real concerns are being raised by carers regarding this. I encourage the Minister of State to look at it because ultimately nobody knows the care needs better than those delivering the care on a 24-7 basis. It is about trust and the recognition of the value of the work people do. They do such incredible work, not just for the people they care for but the whole community and the country.

Deputy Martin Kenny

Many carers are finding it very difficult to manage and survive. As was said by my colleagues, they are doing a job that cannot be done by anyone else, in many cases. People come to me who have somebody with profound disabilities and have had serious problems for many years. They may get some home help from the HSE but when they look for additional home help, they are told they will have to hire that privately. When they look for it, it simply is not there because the staff are not there to do it. It is not as if there is another option for these people other than to do the caring themselves, in the vast majority of cases. The means test means that in the case of a couple who have a child with profound disabilities, one of them has to stay at home to look after the child. The other one cannot choose not to work. They have to pay their mortgage, pay their way and get on in life. What do they do? It is simply debilitating for them.

There needs to be recognition. The Government has to recognise that it is not just about the pounds and pence, adding up, accountants looking at figures, and where this will lead to. It is about the provision of care for people in our society who need that care as an absolute necessity in their lives. That is what missing in all of this. The idea of the Government kicking it down the road until next summer is totally inappropriate. That needs to be reconsidered immediately. Sinn Féin has given a clear commitment that we would remove the means test from the carer's allowance immediately, if we were in government. This Government should do the same as we are on the edge of a general election.

A gentleman who cares for his mother contacted my office yesterday. He is getting the carer's allowance. He recently had a review. He has a small farm and does a bit of farming. During the review, the official asked him how much time he spends on the land doing the farming. He said about two and a half or three hours a day. His carer's allowance was taken away. Three hours a day by seven days a week is 21 hours and his allowance was gone. The man was just making an off-the-cuff remark. He did not measure the time he spends looking after the farm, yet his carer's allowance was taken away. Those kind of hard, difficult decisions that these people make, which absolutely destroy people's lives, need to be reconsidered. The way they should be reconsidered is by the Government recognising that carers are people who need to get support. It is not just about getting support but getting respect. It is about having respect for people with disabilities who need the care as well as, usually, their very close family members who provide the care for them out of a sense of love, kinship and understanding that these people have no other option. There is nobody else there to care for them, yet the Government continues to abandon them.

Minister of State at the Department of Social Protection (Deputy Joe O'Brien)

The Government is not opposing the motion. I welcome the opportunity to discuss the important issue of carer supports provided by the Department of Social Protection, in particular, the carer's allowance payment. I thank the Deputies for bringing forward the motion.

On a personal level, I know that the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, has always sought to make sure the interests of carers are front and centre of budget decisions.

This approach has been evidenced again in the most recent budget with an extensive package of measures announced for family carers. This includes once-off lump sum and double payments to assist carers and those they care for, such as the following: the October cost-of-living bonus, which was paid to carers last week; a €400 cost-of-living lump sum payment for carers eligible for the carer’s support grant, which will be paid next week; and a Christmas bonus, which will be paid to over 1.3 million long-term welfare recipients, including carers. As part of budget 2025, the Government has extended the carer’s benefit scheme to the self-employed for the first time. The Government has also increased the carer’s support grant twice during its term and it now stands at €2,000 a year, its highest ever rate.

Significantly, the Government has delivered on the programme for Government commitment to provide a pension solution for long-term carers. This important reform enables long-term carers who have been caring for an incapacitated dependant for 20 years or more to qualify for the contributory State pension. Under the scheme, for the first time, full-time carers can get long-term carer's contributions to cover gaps in their contribution record, which can help them qualify for a pension. Since January 2024, long-term carer's contributions can be awarded to a person who has cared for an incapacitated person for a period of 20 years or more. These contributions are treated the same as paid contributions for the contributory State pension entitlement only, and can be used to fill any gaps in a person's contribution record, including satisfying the minimum 520 paid contributions required for eligibility.

Long-term carer's contributions have been available to individuals who reached State pension age from 1 January 2024 and are also available to those already aged 66 or over prior to that date. In the case of those already over the age of 66, care periods provided for incapacitated dependants up to their 66th birthday are assessed for entitlement to long-term carer's contributions. Such a person can apply for long-term carer's contributions and receive a contributory State pension or an enhanced rate of pension if already in receipt of less than the maximum rate from 1 January 2024, where eligible. As a result, at the end of September, 580 people were awarded the contributory State pension, with a further 199 people receiving an increase in the rate paid.

The main income supports provided by the Department of Social Protection include carer's allowance, carer's benefit, domiciliary care allowance and the carer's support grant. Spending on these payments in 2024 is expected to be in the region of €1.7 billion. Carer’s allowance is the main scheme by which the Department provides income support to carers in the community and some 97,393 people are currently supported by this payment. This year, the expenditure on the carer’s allowance scheme is estimated to be over €1.1 billion. As the Deputies are aware, carer’s allowance is a means-tested social assistance payment awarded to those who are caring for people who need full-time care and attention. A means test is a way of targeting limited resources at those who have the lowest incomes. Means tests are used not just for carer payments but for pensioners, disabled people, lone parents and jobseekers. It is a system that applies across the board, based on supporting households with the lowest means.

In the case of the carer’s allowance payment, as has been made clear on previous occasions, the payment is not and was never intended to be a payment for the provision of care. The Minister for Social Protection has made significant improvements to capital and income disregards for carers that allow many more carers to qualify for carer’s allowance. The Minister, Deputy Humphreys, was the first Minister in 14 years to increase the disregard for carer’s allowance. The capital and savings disregard for the means assessment was increased from €20,000 to €50,000, which equates to €100,000 for carers who are part of a couple. Since 2021, under this Government, the carer’s allowance income disregards have been increased from €332.50 to €625 for a single person, and from €665 to €1,250 for carers with a partner. The disregards for carer’s allowance are now by far the highest income disregards of any weekly payment in the social welfare system. In the case of a couple, a carer will be able to retain a full-rate payment of €260 per week while having an annual income of just over €69,000 from employment, or retain a half-rate payment of €130 per week while having an annual income from employment of nearly €84,000.

The Minister has established an interdepartmental working group, with the Department of Health and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, to examine and review the system of means tests for carer payments. This group is expected to report on its findings in quarter 4 of this year. The outcome of this work and other work in the Department around means testing generally will help to inform any future decisions regarding changes to social welfare payments, including carer’s allowance.

In addition to significant improvements to the means test for carer’s allowance already outlined, over the last four budgets, the weekly carers' payments, that is, carer’s allowance and carer’s benefit, have increased by €41 per week. As part of budget 2025, the rate of carer’s allowance will increase by €12 to €260 per week for a carer aged under 66 years caring for one person. It is important to put this into context, given the equivalent payment to a carer across the Border in Northern Ireland is currently almost €97 per week. It is also important to point out that the carer’s allowance payment in Northern Ireland is subject to an income limit of approximately €179.95 per week, much lower than our income disregard.

The programme for Government and the economic recovery plan included commitments to consider a pay-related jobseeker's benefit scheme. The Minister for Social Protection recently signed the commencement order confirming that the new jobseeker's pay-related benefit scheme will be available from 31 March 2025. The priority is to launch this scheme and the Government has been clear that this experience should be used to inform future decisions regarding pay-related schemes. As part of the consultation process, the Department of Social Protection sought feedback on applying a pay-related approach in respect of other short-term income supports, for example, parental leave benefits, maternity benefit and illness benefit. It should be noted that the issue of pay-related carer’s benefit was not raised to any significant degree in the consultation. However, I think the same approach applies and we should look at the experience of the jobseeker scheme to inform where we go next.

It is also important to note that the jobseeker’s pay-related benefit approach is being introduced on the basis of increased PRSI rates, as agreed in the programme for Government, because it needs to be funded from the Social Insurance Fund. This is necessary to ensure the sustainability of the fund, including the retention of the pension age at 66 years, as agreed by the Government. Accordingly, it follows that the continued expansion of a pay-related benefit framework to other schemes, such as carer’s benefit, will need detailed analysis, including any potential impact on PRSI rates.

As I said, we are not opposing this motion because it is a debate worth having. I think all of us in the House recognise the valuable contribution that family carers make to our society and we all want to further enhance the supports available to them and, equally as important, the supports available to those they care for. The Government has done a lot to improve carers' payments during its time. While we recognise that more needs to be done, we need to make sure that whatever we do is affordable and sustainable into the future. I again thank the Deputies for raising the matter and I look forward to hearing the various contributions.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Michael Ring)

We move to Sinn Féin. Several speakers are sharing time. I call Deputy Conway-Walsh.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

I thank my colleagues, Deputies Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire and Pauline Tully, for bringing this debate to the House and for insisting that our last debate on Private Members’ business would be on carers because it is such an important issue. I will set out why the Government needs to engage with and act on the concerns of carers about the punitive carer’s allowance means test and how this affects the welfare and quality of life of carers and their families. The fact is that too many carers in my constituency of Mayo are living in poverty. The cost of caring for people with disabilities and others is not taken into account in many cases. Where there are transport costs, energy costs and all of those things, carers are not able to make ends meet.

Carers want to be heard, listened to and respected, and they need more than lip service. This is the Government's last chance to set out a clear roadmap for the abolition of the carer’s allowance means test over a term of Government and to recognise the importance and value of the work carers do. Instead of increasing the income disregard for carer’s allowance, the Government should scrap the means test completely. That is the solution. The money is there to do it. If the Government is not going to do it now, when is it going to be done? It absolutely has to be done now.

That is what Sinn Féin would do. We would get rid of the means test. That is an absolute commitment, not only to carers in Mayo but to those across the State. Sinn Féin values the contribution of carers. We do not simply want to pay lip service to the work they do, which is often lonely and laborious work that lasts 24 hours a day.

We all know that the last census confirmed the number of people in the State providing unpaid care is increasing and almost two thirds are women. The issues around social care and the lack of supply are not going away. The State will experience a growing need for the provision of care, which is why investing in carers is crucial at this stage. The State cannot take our carers for granted any longer. We need to ensure that where people want to be cared for in their own homes, they are facilitated to do so, and that those providing the care are supported and protected from poverty and given the recognition they deserve.

All of this must be planned and the Government has a responsibility to undertake this vital work. I do not believe it will do so, however, because the measures for carers in the Government's last budget - we just passed the Finance Bill yesterday - were tokenistic. The Government allocated €11 million to relax the means test for carers next year, whereas Sinn Féin proposed to allocate ten times more than that, or €100 million.

It is just not good enough. Too many carers are forced to give up work suddenly to provide care and therefore face a cliff edge. The Government must put in place a related carer's benefit scheme, as proposed in Sinn Féin's alternative budget for 2025.

Staff spending months scrutinising people's most personal information to see if they are eligible for a few quid is not the way to go. We can save money by abolishing the means test for carers and the bureaucracy that is put in front of carers every day of the week. We need to support carers, not do everything to put barriers in their way to prevent them from being able to live and having a few quid to live on. That is why we have to abolish the means test for carer's allowance.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

There is an element of Groundhog Day here, whether we are talking about services for families of people with disabilities, school places for children with disabilities or carers. There is general agreement with regard to the billions that carers save. We could not operate without the care provided by family members to those they love. In Ireland and many other places, that has always been relied on. Luckily, it has not failed us to date but unfortunately this State has failed these families over many years. We have a huge level of resources compared to what the State has had historically. We have spoken about billions in the budget for one-off payments but many carers and others I have spoken about previously will say that one-off payments do not cut the mustard in any way, shape or form with respect to the lives they lead and the services they cannot get.

The abolition of the carer's allowance means test is necessary and would be fair. We know people whose lives have changed drastically because of changed circumstances, for example, having a child born with additional needs or having some specific tragedy occur in the household. People dealing with very difficult circumstances are then impacted dreadfully in financial terms. It was put very well by some of my colleagues who spoke of them facing a cliff edge. As Sinn Féin has said, we need to put in place a pay-related carer's benefit scheme. The State has never had so many resources. It is absolutely necessary, therefore, that the carer's allowance means test is scrapped.

I mentioned Groundhog Day. I will raise two issues related to this specific area and the lack of flexibility. The first is the case of a woman, and this is not the first time I have brought it up here. She is a carer in her home. She also works for a home care company and tries to do so within the 18.5 hours per week limit. Like everyone else, she has to deal with other realities of life. The nature of the work with her current client means she sometimes has to exceed the time she is allotted. She works up to 20 hours and when this happens, the carer's allowance section reviews the case. When it receives her payslips it is found that she has worked more than 18.5 hours and she has to pay back the full amount for the week. This is no way to be operating in the modern age. The Government is penalising people who are doing huge work on behalf of society.

Another lady who works for a dementia charity was asked by her boss to fill in for someone who was off sick. She did this necessary work for considerable period. She faced the same scenario but for a longer period and she now has to pay back €28,000. There will be huge numbers of similar cases. I hope that whatever happens and whoever is in government, I do not find myself repeating the same story again.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

I thank Deputies Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire and Pauline Tully for bringing forward this motion. Carers are fed up with the Government paying lip service to what they do and with how valuable they are portrayed in society. The facts are that many carers find themselves having to give up their jobs, take a substantial hit in their household finances and often having to take on a round-the-clock, dedicated carer's role.

Just think for one minute what doing away with the means test would mean to these families. Immediately, it would increase household income and add to the betterment and improvement of conditions for the persons they love and care for. Immediately, it would give a real and tangible lift to carers who deserve far more than the punitive means-test system that leaves them worse off at a time when they need the most help.

It is simple. All the Minister of State has to do is go out and ask carers about the difficulties they face on a daily basis. Each household faces different hardships and modes of care. Carers deal with all sorts of disabilities. The Government had an opportunity to do away with the means test in its auction budget for 2025, yet it has not committed to do so. Meanwhile, once again, carers are put on the lower shelf and must wait until January for an increase in the threshold.

In this motion, we are also asking that the Government put in place a pay-related carer's benefit scheme. This is important as in many cases, family members or individuals become carers overnight due to sudden accidents, diagnoses or strokes, which have an immediate and life-changing effect on their personal and family households.

The means test for the carer's allowance should be abolished. Sinn Féin is fully committed to abolishing it over the course of a term in government. The Government allocated €11 million to relax the means test for carers next year. Sinn Féin, in its alternative budget, allocated €100 million. That is the difference a Sinn Féin Government would make. Carers incomes fall far short of the established minimum standard of living income, despite saving the Government millions in health bills. We ask all TDs to support this motion and support our carers.

Deputy Duncan Smith

I thank Sinn Féin for bringing this very important motion to the Dáil this morning. The Labour Party believes in a society that values care and invests in it from cradle to grave, so that people have access to the services they need when they need them. In our election manifesto, we will outline our proposals for a new social care contract to support family carers and care workers.

For many years, the Labour Party has campaigned for family carers and care workers, with motions passing in the Dáil and Seanad in 2023. Unfortunately, Government parties have ignored these proposals despite the transformational potential we had in budget 2025. Real change will be needed in the next five years. The next Government will have an awful lot of money in the coffers but will it have the ambition to change those areas that need true transformation, including the role of carers and care workers?

The Labour Party will consider the future recommendations of the commission on care. In the meantime, we will establish a national planning unit for care to oversee all aspects of care planning and implementation rooted fundamentally in the drive to deprivatise care services. A priority will be the mapping of existing services and infrastructure, demographic modelling of future demand and geographic and economic barriers to access.

There are over 500,000 family carers in Ireland and their unpaid work saves the State over €20 billion a year. The 2022 census shows that the number of unpaid carers increased by 53% to over 299,000. That number has most likely breached the 300,000 mark since that census. The Labour Party has proposed long-needed policy changes to support family carers, such as removing the restrictive means test and the low rate of payment, which is not sufficient to meet the financial needs of those caring for dependants. We will carry out an evaluation of carer's allowance and other supports as part of a full cost-of-care review. Parents have consistently told us that the application and appeals process for the domiciliary care allowance is simply not fit for purpose, and the Labour Party will reform it. Labour would also increase the housing adaptation grant. Many of those receiving care not living the quality of life they should, given increased building costs and the current restrictive amount of the grant.

The Labour Party is committed to implementing the carer's guarantee and we have long supported the removal of the means test for carer's allowance. We will phase out the carer's allowance income disregard as part of the development of the new family care payment, in line with the call made by Family Carers Ireland. We will progressively increase the half-rate carer's allowance in recognition of the value of care work and as part of a systemic change to a participation income. We will increase the number of hours per week a carer can work or study to provide for more flexibility.

We will increase the carer's support grant up to €2,500 and ensure that all those in receipt of it are entitled to carer's allowance. We will implement a respite strategy to guarantee access for all family carers with a comprehensive system to map demand and the range of capacities available. We will reform the application and appeals process for domiciliary care allowance to make it fit for purpose and provide for much needed payment increases. We will fully fund the carer's guarantee. We will ensure that kinship care and foster care are properly supported. Labour will replace the mobility allowance and motorised transport grant with the transport support scheme. We will also support family carers to enter or remain in employment or education. We will address anomalies with carer's benefit such as the €450 earnings limit. We will review the home care and dependent relative tax credits to address impacts on single people and those caring for a non-child relative.

As someone who has dealt with hundreds of carers' applications over the past number of years, I am acutely aware of the current problem facing carers in this country. Too many carers are not getting the payment they deserve. Too many face unacceptable delays with applications and the trauma of having to have their applications reviewed and then appealed. Far too many of these reviews are simply not fair and put demands on carers that should not be there. Carers save this State €20 billion each year. Over the past four years I have witnessed through my own office, testimony from carers and those receiving care, advocacy groups like Family Carers Ireland and carers I meet on the doors and in my advice clinics. The €20 billion they save the State every year is an extraordinary amount when put into euro and cent. It is the kind of money that would build numerous hospitals, metro and Luas links, transport infrastructure and housing. This is what carers are doing every day. Yes, it is about being valued and getting the payments they deserve. It is also about respecting the work they do. While the system is not meeting the demands and needs of carers, it is fundamentally undervaluing the work they do for their loved ones, their families, their community and for the State. Despite its riches and despite the increase in some payments, the Government has missed an opportunity to truly reform the world of carers' payments and supports. It is something the next Government must do, and if Labour is part of that Government, we will.

Deputy Seán Canney

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important subject. It is not the first time we have spoken on it in the Regional Group of Independent TDs, of which I am a member with Deputy Verona Murphy. We have been advocating for a non-means-tested carer's allowance support grant for a long time. As a member of the disability matters committee, I have heard first-hand through listening to people with the experience of living in a household with somebody with a disability, the trauma and struggle that always prevails. When a man comes into my office who in effect is being penalised because he got married, because his wife's income is now being taken into account in terms of the means of the household when they look at carer's allowance, it is not right. You have situations where a young mother decides to give up her career after getting her third-level education and maybe spending three or four years in the workforce. She sacrifices all of that and the potential there for her, to look after her child who has special needs. She is then requested to submit her husband's or partner's income as part of the process to decide the means test. That is absolutely wrong. There is no way around it. It is simply not right. The reason is that we all know, from the Indecon report, the additional cost for people living with a disability. This is not about the Ukraine war, or the cost of living. It is about the cost of living with a disability. The Indecon report suggests and confirms that the additional cost of living with that disability is somewhere between €9,000 and €12,000 per year. Yet, we have been advocating for additional transport services or transport service supports for people with disabilities, and it is not forthcoming.

We have a primary medical certificate procedure process which is horrendous. You will now only be successful if you have lost a limb. It is incredible that we have brought it to a stage where people who really need to get their cars adapted are not getting that adaption done, because they are being refused. As Members are aware, the appeals board resigned over the fact it could not look at any appeal because the criteria were so tight. It was black and white. You had to have lost a limb. That is still going on. It has been under review but the motorised transport supports, which were there, were withdrawn. We now have a situation in this State where people are rightly getting paid money for the fact that they have a disability, to help them with the additional costs of getting around and for their independence. We have other people who get nothing because they were born after a certain date. That is discrimination and inequality.

In his report on disabilities before he stepped down as the Ombudsman, Peter Tyndall stated it was absolutely alarming and needed to be dealt with as a matter of urgency. The Government has failed to deal with that. It now has an opportunity with the non-means-tested carer's allowance to put that in place. I acknowledge there are issues with it, and the Minister, Deputy Humphreys has said there are some issues and she would work to make it happen over the coming number of years. The commitment has got to be there. We have to see it in the parties' manifestoes and we have to see the implementation of that shortly after the new Government is formed. We are treating people wrongly. We are treating carers with disrespect. They are saving the State €20 billion per annum. The cost of a non-means-tested carer's allowance would be something like €175 million. That is not my figure. That is from research conducted by Maynooth college on behalf of Family Carers Ireland. We know what happened with the referendum when people tried to disrupt family caring. People will not have it, but they will support anybody who will support the idea of a non-means-tested carer's allowance.

Deputy Verona Murphy

This is my 49th speech on carers. While I welcome that Sinn Féin has a brought a motion, I am disappointed that it did not come on board as an Opposition party much earlier to look for the abolition of the carer’s means test. While it always maintains there should be a more streamlined approach and a little incremental increase in that, it did not look for abolition. My colleague, Sean Canney and I, and our other colleagues in the Regional Group brought forward two motions for abolition. They were two motions that the Government also accepted. The reason it accepted them is because it was not going to do anything about it. Here we are, maybe 24 hours out from an election, and the Government is again accepting this motion because it knows it will not do anything about it. The reality is that the Minister of State has made a speech that the Government is supporting 97,000 carers. I tell the Minister of State that it is not supporting another 200,000. According to the last census there were almost 300,000 carers in this country, and we know that has increased since the last census. My colleagues spoke about how we treat carers. We do not treat carers, we mistreat them. We are carrying out a means test that is, as has been said 100 times, mean. We are assessing somebody else's income to penalise the person who is providing the care to assess whether or not they have enough money and do not need to be paid for the care they do. Of course they should be paid for the care they do. We do not means-test jobseeker's payments. At a time when we have full employment, we carry out reviews at a level of 12,000 per annum on carers looking after their elderly or their vulnerable children in their own homes, saving this State €20 billion, and we are reviewing them at a rate five times more than that of jobseekers. These are people who we say could have jobs if they went out and looked for them but yet we will not pat those who save the State €20 billion.

As my colleague said, that is not a figure I made up. It is a figure that comes from proper PhD researchers in Maynooth University, paid for by Family Carers Ireland.

It is incredible the Minister of State can sit there. I understand why he is not looking at me. I would not be able to look at me either if I had stood up 49 times here saying the same thing. People give up their jobs to save the State money and we carry out a test on the people with whom they may or may not have a relationship but who happen to reside in the same household. A little more than two thirds of them are women and one third are men. The reality, as everyone knows, is that if it was the other way around and two thirds were men, carers would be paid. There would not be any means test. It is as simple as that but because they are women who spend all their time doing what they do, they have little time to advocate for the abolition of the means test. I have advocated for it since I was elected for the simple reason that they appear at my door or I go to visit them in their homes where I see what they do 24-7.

I have mentioned on this floor many times one carer who is the mother of four severely intellectually and physically disabled children. She is in receipt of 1.5 carer's allowances, perhaps €400 per week and she has no life. She says she provides physiotherapy, occupational therapy, speech and language therapy, everything that would be provided if the State had to look after them and she probably provides a State saving of a little more than €1 million per year for carrying out that function. It is beyond me that as this Dáil comes to an end we are still standing here pleading with the Government. I recognise the inroads it has made. I just do not understand why we are penalising people who do a State service and save the taxpayer €20 billion.

I rest my case. I am disappointed this has not happened in the lifetime of this Government and I hope, whether I am back here or not, that it will be prioritised by the next Government.

Deputy Joe O'Brien

It is a pity Deputy Murphy had to take a cheap shot at jobseekers. She made some good points but that was unnecessary. That is why I was not looking at her.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Michael Ring)

I call People Before Profit although the Deputies missed their slot. At the discretion of the Chair, I will let them speak for five minutes each.

Deputy Bríd Smith

I really appreciate that. A few people did not take their slots so we underestimated the time. This is probably the last time I will speak in the Dáil and I appreciate being allowed to speak on this topic.

I thank Sinn Féin for tabling the motion and the carers' association and all the carers out there who do the job they do. It is a job I did for two years when my mother was alive. It is a job I was proud to do, but it is a hard job and it means that people are more or less on call 24-7. That puts carers into a special category that is not recognised and never has been by any Government. Never mind this one, it has never been recognised by any previous one and I doubt it will be even by the next one, except for this fact. The carers are getting organised. Family Carers Ireland has organised tens of thousands of them. They are becoming like a trade union, like a working group who are standing up and fighting for themselves. I commit myself when I am outside the Dáil doing real politics to helping them to build a movement that will pressurise any future government into listening to them and giving them what they rightly deserve.

I find it ironic that in his speech when he announced the budget, the Minister for Finance made a statement in relation to carers that "the Government is committed to supporting individuals and families with caring responsibilities". That is a strong statement, much stronger than the wording proposed in the care referendum, which was defeated because of the wording. That wording, in a weak and non-committal way, said that Governments would strive to support carers. The Minister's statement is more committed than the one given to us in the referendum. It is no wonder it was defeated as it failed to recognise the role hundreds of thousands of men, women and often children play in keeping this society going and the €20 billion per year, last estimated in 2022, they save the Irish State. Given that we now have a huge surplus with the Apple tax, the very least any government should do before going out of office is to abolish the mean-spirited and often personalised and intrusive assessment for the carer's allowance.

The criteria are intrusive, often asking personal questions and, as was illustrated earlier, asking what people do with their daily time if they work more than 18 hours a week. For example, farmers might say they are working 21 hours on the farm and lose the carer's allowance for that reason. It is time we recognise the absolutely fundamental role carers play and will continue to play. We have to thank them, but thanking them is not enough. We also have to reward them. In our election manifesto, People Before Profit commits in the future to paying carers a living wage of €15 per hour. No other party recognises that in an average week carers work the many hours they do, but given an average working work, they should receive the living wage of €15 per hour, never mind the minimum wage. The abolition of the means test is crucial to treating them with the respect and recognition they deserve. Their lives are put on hold. I can say that from lived reality. I was a short-term carer but many do it for a whole lifetime. Recognition of that sacrifice is needed and driving them into poverty and treating them as objects is beyond the pale. We need to end that practice and I hope in the future the movement will force a future government to do so.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

No words can pay enough tribute to the role carers play in society. Those carers can be elderly themselves, infirm and they can be young people, looking after their loved ones who are vulnerable and disabled people. If the State had to provide that care and those services, it would cost countless billions. However, this is done by people who, as a result of such things as the means test for carers, are effectively trapped in poverty. Many of those trapped in poverty are women. One of the disgraceful aspects of this is that it often makes women carers vulnerable where they are dependent on their male partners. I was shocked, as I have said before, when I met a carer on the street a number of months ago and she talked about a situation where her partner was holding back money for sanitary products. That is absolutely shocking. To put women, sometimes women who may be victims of domestic abuse, in that kind of vulnerable position where they are trapped and dependent on the income of a partner from whom they may be alienated or suffering abuse is shocking.

The intrusiveness and inhumanity of the means test is sometimes equally shocking. This week, a woman in her 70s who cares for her disabled son who is in his 20s came into our office. She asked us to highlight the fact that although her income situation has not changed for 50 years and is hardly going to change when she is in her 70s, it is means tested every two years. Such questions as how she could afford to go on holidays are asked. The only holiday she is able to take is because of the small grants she gets towards that for respite.

It is absolutely unbelievable that somebody could be treated in that way, and subject to that kind of interrogation every two years when he or she is doing such a service, and when he or she has made such sacrifices for their loved ones.

The means test for carers should go. We have said that for a very long time. The Government has badly let people down. It has clearly failed to listen to the lesson of the recent referendum, which to a substantial degree was about the demand to get rid of the means test for carers. Furthermore, People Before Profit not only want to get rid of the means test for carers, but as Deputy Bríd Smith said, they should be given a living income of at least €15 an hour. That would still be cheap at the price for the work they do for our society, for their loved ones and for vulnerable and disabled people.

On a related issue, we believe the means test for disability allowance should also be scrapped, because that is also about trapping people with disabilities, often in poverty. That is the case, for example, if you go over the threshold of €50,000. Let us remember that a report published in recent years showed that people with disabilities have additional costs of €10,000 to €12,000 a year. There are very substantial costs. If you have assets of more than €50,000, it begins to impact on your disability allowance. If, for example, your parents die and leave you a few quid, you then start to have your disability allowance impacted upon. It is absolutely outrageous and traps people with disabilities in poverty. Not only should the means test for carers go, but the means test for disability allowance should also go as part of honouring all the rhetoric and the commitment to the UNCRPD, which is not in reality honoured in the sense of ensuring real equality and support for people with disabilities. I thank the Chair for his generosity in allowing us to have this speaking slot.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Michael Ring)

That is no problem. Deputy Gannon missed his slot but I will use the discretion of the Chair to give him ten minutes.

Deputy Gary Gannon

I appreciate the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach's discretion and thank him for it.

Most of us want to thank Sinn Féin for bringing forward this motion, which is a vitally important one that urges us to acknowledge the immense, often unseen, contribution carers make to our society. Such care is effectively a shadow health service. It is high time we addressed the appalling treatment they receive from a system that seems blind to their worth, one that has left too many of them out in the cold. As this is the last speaking slot for many of us, I hope, following this motion today, we can all agree this is something that certainly needs to change.

Carers provide essential care and support to our loved ones, care that the State would otherwise be unable to offer at scale and with the same dedication. They care with dignity, selflessness and without expectation, yet they are continually excluded from fair financial support. There is no excuse for leaving these individuals to shoulder the heavy burden of caregiving alone. This motion calls on the Government to abolish the carer's allowance means test, one that is quite frankly outdated, inequitable and deeply unfair. It is also a test that excludes so many of those who need support the most. I can think of no logical reason to retain this test, which penalises people who are already asked to make so many sacrifices.

We are all knocking on doors at the moment. Undoubtedly, like me, every single night each of us meets a carer. As the door opens, once they tell us what they do, the expectation is that they will go on to tell us how they are being failed by the State. Only last week I had such a conversation with a person on the doorstep. I will call her Mary, because I do not have permission to use her first name. Her story is a reminder of just how broken our system is. Mary has been caring for her son, who has profound disabilities, for the better part of 20 years. Every day is a struggle to ensure he has the dignity, love and care he deserves. She administers his medication and assists him with his basic needs. She advocates for him tirelessly. Mary's husband works full time and he earns an income that disqualifies her from receiving the carer's allowance yet, as anyone familiar with the reality of family life knows, it is nowhere near enough to cover all their expenses and to provide for a family with a child who requires round-the-clock care.

Mary tells me that while her husband's income may look decent on paper, it is stretched thin by the cost of her son's care. Specialist appointments, adaptive equipment and transportation are not inexpensive. She often has to make the impossible choice between caring for her son's needs and her own health, well-being and most of the time her basic financial security. That is because an arbitrary means test judges a family's eligibility based on a single income and dismisses the complexity of their financial needs. We are forcing people like Mary into impossible situations and ignoring the real cost of caregiving, both financially and personally.

This Government claims it values carers, yet it tells people like Mary and others whom we all meet every single night that their time and devotion simply does not count. The Government's reluctance to abolish the means test outright is just one of the many ways it fails to recognise caregiving as real, valuable work. We know the value of carers' contributions, not just emotionally but financially as well. The economic contribution of carers in Ireland is estimated at hundreds of millions of euro annually. These are individuals who are saving the State a fortune, yet the State turns it back on them. It is an injustice that I and my colleagues across the Chamber are committed to correcting. The policy position of the Social Democrats is that we have called not just for the abolition of the means tests but for a comprehensive overhaul of the carer's allowance. Carers should not have to worry about thresholds, limits or eligibility criteria that do not recognise their unique and pressing needs.

What we need is a universal, non-means-tested carer's income and support that respects the contribution of every carer in Ireland regardless of his or her household income. This is about more than just money. When carers are excluded from support, it takes a mental and emotional toll. These are people who give everything they have to care for their loved ones, who put their own health and well-being second. They do not receive a day off or even a moment to themselves. When we exclude them from support, we are effectively saying to them that their sacrifices are invisible; that they do not matter to the State.

Carers deserve better than that. They deserve the respect and recognition they have been so long denied. They deserve respite, a chance to rest and time to care for themselves, even as they provide care to others. As it stands, the State does not offer carers a fair deal. There are those who spend decades providing care, only to find themselves excluded from a pension that recognises their contribution. Imagine spending 20 to 30 years looking after a loved one, only to reach old age with no financial security. That is the reality for too many carers, one we must seek to change.

The Social Democrats, taking inspiration from groups such as Family Carers Ireland, have proposed a number of reforms that would make a meaningful difference. These include the establishment of a statutory right to home care, the benchmarking and indexing of carer's payments and the expansion of the free travel scheme to those receiving the domiciliary care allowance. These reforms are not luxuries, they are necessities.

Let us also not overlook the critical role respite plays in sustaining the health and well-being of carers. Without regular and adequate respite, carers are at risk of burnout, physical injury and emotional strain. We meet them every single day. Every carer deserves the right to a life outside the caregiving role, to rest and to take time for him or herself without guilt or worry.

While we are on the topic of reform, we must also ensure the community and voluntary sector, in particular section 39 organisations, which provide an invaluable service to carers and those they care for, receive the funding and support they need. The current disparity in pay and conditions for this sector creates a recruitment and retention crisis, leaving families like Mary's without access to essential services. Not having a fair and sustainable funding model leaves carers even more isolated.

This motion is simply about respect. It is about saying to carers that we see them, we value them, and we are committed to supporting them. For too long, the State has treated caregiving as an afterthought, something less important than paid employment, but we know better. We know that caring for another human being is one of the most difficult, demanding and selfless jobs.

As we part, I say to the Government that it is time to stop delaying and deflecting and to start delivering for carers. In the next government we must commit ourselves across the Chamber to abolishing the means test, establishing a fair non-means-tested carer's income support and to the creation of a system that honours the contribution of every carer in this country.

To the carers across Ireland who are looking in today, as many did to the Family Carer's Ireland event yesterday, we owe you a simple thanks for the work you do on behalf of this State, much of which is not recognised.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I compliment Sinn Féin for tabling this motion. We sound patronising here but we just cannot thank carers enough. They really are angels of mercy for the work they do and the way they do it. I had the privilege yesterday, along with Councillor Richie Molloy, of welcoming to the Dáil Gallery and the Dáil restaurant a group of carers who had earlier attended a function in the Ashling Hotel. They were representatives of carers who work day and night.

I want to condemn out of hand the way that retiring Minister, Deputy Humphreys, the Fine Gael party in general and the Government used and abused carers in the referendum by dangling them on a string and promising them something that the Government had no notion of delivering. Carers were getting nothing out of that referendum. In fact, they were going to get less. I deplore they way they were abused. There were constant phone calls from the Fine Gael director of elections, Deputy Humphreys, to ask its members do more and get out and canvass. The Government used and abused these people, as if they are not used and abused enough in the way they have to care for their families, with the removal of services like home help. Now we can get home helps ratified in a couple of days but the Government knows that there is nobody there to do the work. It is just ticking boxes. I condemn the patronising way carers are being treated. The way they were abused in that referendum was nothing short of scandalous.

The motion addresses many issues that carers need to be supported on. In particular, section 39 organisations and others are trying their best to fill the gaps. We must remember that there are children who are carers. There are young people who should be ag sugradh taobh amuigh faoin spéir, who should be out with their friends or in class in school but they are caring for parents or, in some cases, grandparents. It is an awful indictment of our State in 2024, especially given all of the money that is going into the HSE. When I came in here it was €6.5 billion or €7 billion but now it is €26 billion, with another €1.5 billion over again. Those at the bottom of the chain suffer all of the time. They are not getting the supports because of the bureaucratic nature of the system. I want to salute the people who come in, the home helps and carers, for the sterling efforts they make. We do not support them enough. We should support them. I support this motion and compliment the movers of same. We should all do our bit. I never fail to wear the carer's badge. It is a nice badge. I like to wear it and try to support them in any way I can.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I thank Sinn Féin for bringing this very important motion before the Dáil. Carers are the unsung heroes of Ireland, providing essential care that supports both their loved ones and the broader healthcare system. The current means test for carer's allowance is a significant barrier that prevents many carers from receiving the support they need. Abolishing this means test would not only provide financial relief to carers but would also recognise their invaluable contribution to society and the economy. It is time for the Government to take decisive action and ensure that carers receive the respect, recognition and support they deserve. I say that based on my work in County Kerry. I am so proud and glad of the people I meet in my day-to-day work and the massive service that they give. Our nursing homes, community hospitals and bigger hospitals are creaking under pressure as it is. If the excellent work that carers are doing was to stop and if all the people who are being cared for at home were to be in the public system all of a sudden there would be total chaos. The best value for the money the State spends would be to give an adequate amount to people who might have been thrown off a cliff edge. They might have been getting on fine with their lives and then all of a sudden an event happens like a heart attack, a stroke or the beginning of Alzheimer's disease and they have to face caring for a person at home. It could be the victim of an accident or a person who is just getting older and slowing down. The best value we will ever get is to pay people to take care of others at home but we must do it adequately. The means test should be abolished.

The Acting Chairman will have to allow me, in the last 30 seconds of my time, to break from this debate and to speak about something very important because it will probably be my last time I hope it will not be my last time but it will be my last time looking at him. I want to put something on record of the Dáil, and I am very proud to say this. Even though we would be from different sides of the political fence, I never held Deputy Ring in anything but the highest esteem. I personally believe that his loss to Irish politics will be vast and great given his experience and ability to put effort into his constituency. Nobody could ever polish his shoes for the effort, drive, energy and determination that he put into his role as a public representative. It will be remembered forever. He is a legendary figure in Irish politics and I mean that - a legendary figure.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Michael Ring)

Thank you very much for your kind words.

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

If we look around the Public Gallery we see the next generation of people. We are their carers. The vulnerable people in this country are being penalised for caring for people. They are being penalised. The means test for anyone that is caring for somebody should be abolished. It is caring; that is what they are doing. If we look at the money paid to the people at the very top levels of the public health sector who are paid for caring but who do not care, then we realise how much carers do without any reward. In fact, they do without to care for other people. That is the problem.

I wish to bring up an issue that is slightly off topic but is related to health. It relates to a man called John. I will not mention his second name because, God rest him, he died yesterday. He was brought to a nursing home in County Cork with stage four cancer. His sister rang me, pleading and crying down the phone, asking if I could help John. He was brought to a nursing home to be cared for. He had stage four cancer but there was no medication forwarded to the home. The home contacted the HSE in Cork but was told that it could not do anything for John because he was a Limerick man in a Cork nursing home. We then had to get John moved from the Cork nursing home to a Limerick nursing home. The Limerick people could not go to Cork. He was in a Cork nursing home but was a Limerick person. This is the type of bureaucratic bull that is being put in place. This man passed away yesterday. All he wanted was dignity. He wanted to know what was happening and when it would happen. He knew he was going to die but he wanted to die with dignity. All of the bureaucratic bull that is put in place by this Government and the higher levels of the health service stopped this man from dying with dignity. Instead, his family were crying on the phone, wanting to know how we could help.

The Government talks about the carers in this country. They watch over this area and care for all of us. I ask the Government to think of that the next time they put more bureaucratic bull in front of people who are caring for others.

Deputy Michael Collins

I thank Sinn Féin for tabling this very worthy motion. The carer's allowance is an absolutely outrageous scandal when there is so much money in the State, as the Government continuously tells us. These people were not looked after in the budget. They put in the time and they care for people in their own homes and are proud to do so. They are saving the State tens of millions of euro but the Government did not recognise that or the efforts that they make.

Let us look at the legacy of Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and the Greens in respect of elder care. People cannot get the carer's allowance, home help, a bed in a community hospital or a nursing home, or a bed in a medical ward if they are in need of urgent care. They cannot have urgent operations for things like cataracts and hip or knee replacements. At the very end, they are fleeced under the fair deal scheme. The Government has literally left people unaided at a very vulnerable time in their lives and that is because they cannot shout the loudest. They cannot stand outside the Dáil and cry that they have not got a bed. The only beds being offered to people in west Cork are in another county. It is an outrageous situation that people find themselves in. Some are on medical wards and they cannot leave because there is no bed in a community hospital or a nursing home. They are absolutely at breaking point. Community hospitals should be expanding because our ageing population is growing. Instead of an expansion in the number of beds, community hospitals are staying the same. They are quite brilliant in their delivery but they still have the same 25 or 30 beds that they had 30 years ago, when the aged population was not the size it is now. There is something wrong.

I will tell the Minister of State about home help. You cannot get home help in west Cork. I cannot understand it because I meet people who work in home help and who tell me they are willing to do extra hours. They are not given the time. We are told when we ring that no home help is available. Training for new home help workers now goes on for some eight, nine, ten or 12 months. Surely to God if a new home help is coming on, they can go door to door with a home help who is already working. That should be their training. That would be common sense training and real training on the ground. The Minister of State must look at these areas because the Government is letting down the elderly people of this country. They feel and know it, and will remind the Government on 29 November.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on this motion regarding the abolition of the carer's allowance means test. I fully support this motion, particularly its calls on the Government to put in place a pay-related carer's benefit scheme and to abolish the means test for the carer's allowance.

This Government, in its most recent budget and its four previous budgets, has failed, time and again, to recognise and acknowledge the invaluable work that carers do. Not only do they provide vital care for thousands of people across the country but from a financial point of view alone, carers' work saves the State approximately €20 billion per annum. Carers should be thanked and compensated for their works and their contributions to society rather than penalised.

The current means test and the limit on hours that carers are allowed to work are ridiculous. Why are we punishing people who are saving the State time and money? Why are we ignoring the fact that many carers are parents or family members of the person they care for? Why are we further condemning them to poverty? Carers already experience many burdens, financially and socially, in health and in quality of life. The means test prevents many people who are providing care from being compensated for their hard work.

In Donegal, there are almost 10,700 unpaid carers, which is 6% of the population of the county. There are 139 carers under 15 years of age providing regular unpaid care in the county and 60% of all carers in Donegal are female, in line with the national figure. This shows that females are disproportionately affected by this Government's decision to keep the means test. Shamefully, the period between 2016 and 2022 saw some significant increases in the hours of unpaid care provided. The number of carers in Donegal providing 43 or more hours of unpaid help each week almost doubled, from 1,688 in 2016 to 3,324 in 2022. It is clear that this Government has made things worse for carers. They have done nothing to invest in support for our carers or to recognise their immense contribution to our society. Years of Government inaction and Governments that have prioritised profit, foreign investment and large corporations over our people have had a negative effect on every faction in our society, including our carers, teachers, childcare workers, disabled people, farmers and fishermen. The people will let it be known at the doors and at the polls that this country deserves better. It deserves a Government that is ready to make the system work for everyone, not just a select few.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I thank Sinn Féin for bringing forward this motion. It is an issue about which this group has talked many times during my time in the Dáil since 2016. I welcome the motion and also welcome the fact that the Government is not opposing it. However, no timespan has been given for the abolition of the means test. It is the most basic thing we should do in our Republic, along with having a payment for disability. Those would be two practical measures to show we are serious about living as a republic.

This debate takes place in the context of many reports. In 2022, the Joint Committee on Gender Equality made the recommendation that a person should be assessed on their individual means. The National University of Ireland did a report for Family Carers Ireland which talked about income. Family Carers Ireland's pre-budget submission called for the full abolition of the means test. Separately, we had a cross-part committee on many issues. In respect of carers, the committee's report examined the impact of means testing on the carer's allowance. The organisations detailed a range of issues to the committee, including that the means test is burdensome and difficult to navigate, and deters people from getting employment and so on. We have had any amount of reports.

In addition to those reports, the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission appealed to the Government, among 40 recommendations, to place care within the human rights framework for care. The OECD has told us that the number of hours spent on unpaid care work, valued at an hourly minimum wage, which is the wage that most women get, would amount to 90% of the global GDP. That is the context.

The amount of people getting the carer's allowance, having jumped through all the hoops, is minimal. Just over 98,000 are getting the payment. An amount of people are getting no pay whatsoever. I thank the Library and Research Service, as always, for its briefing note in this regard and its history of this issue. It tells us that there are 300,000 unpaid carers, which represents 6% of the population. Some 46% of carers provide up to 14 hours of unpaid help per week and so on. In a staggering statistic, two thirds of carers were reported as aged between 40 and 64, and 15% were reported as over the age of 65. We are here today for the umpteenth time to appeal to the Government. The only movement we have seen from the Government is that it is not opposing this motion for the first time. I also understand that the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, set up a committee to look at this issue. Words do not mean anything. I have the greatest of respect for the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and she recognised the problems. However, she said that the report would be completed in the third quarter of this year. I do not know if the Minister of State referred to that report. Perhaps I missed it in his speech because I was elsewhere. I would like clarity about where that report is because we should be discussing it today in the context of the abolition of the means test for the carer's allowance. When we go from door to door, from tomorrow or the next day onwards, this issue will be top of the list. The slaughter in Palestine, the carer's allowance means test, public childcare, housing, public transport and health are the issues. They have not changed since the days I stood in 2011 and 2016. I did not hear anyone asking for a reduction in tax, although it would be welcome to people. They asked for services. I will stick to the topic of the day. No economy can function without carers. I have read out the numbers of people who are doing it for nothing. I have read out the numbers of people who are doing it having passed the means test. What is missing is what the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission and the OECD have pointed out, which is that an economy cannot function without carers. It is time we put a cost on what is not happening — not the cost of paying the carers but the cost of not doing so.

Deputy Marian Harkin

It is appropriate that my second last contribution to the Thirty-third Dáil is on the issue of how we care for carers. I put forward a Private Members' Bill on this issue during this Dáil, which carried on from my work in the European Parliament where I chaired the carers interest group for ten years. One of the pieces of legislation we were successful in bringing forward was recently put on the Statute Book here and guarantees carer's leave.

We are talking about how to support family carers who care for people who need care. In truth, if any of us lives long enough, we will either need care ourselves or will have to give care. Caring is not a woman's issue. It is not just a family issue behind the closed door of the family home. Caring is a societal issue. Those not involved in caring often think it is a matter of a few hours here and there. In truth, to receive carer's allowance, there are quite strict regulations in place. Applicants have to satisfy a means test, which I have said many times must be abolished. They also have to provide full-time care of at least 35 hours per week to a person who is medically assessed as needing it. That is the reality of what we are talking about.

To be fair to the Minister, she has increased the income disregard for carer's allowance. I acknowledge and welcome that, but that increase is from an extremely low base. Between 2008 and 2021, there was no increase in the income disregard for carer's allowance. We now need to finish the job and the next Government must commit to doing so. As I said earlier, care is a societal issue. It is about how we value those who need care and those who give care. I have called the means test "the mean test" on many occasions and that is exactly what it is. Carers in Ireland care for well over 100,000 people. Looking at my own constituency, a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation tells me that the contribution of family carers in County Leitrim, for example, saves the State €120 million every year. In County Sligo, family carers save the State €260 million every year.

In County Donegal, family carers save the State approximately €600 million every year. What we are asking for today is reasonable and proportionate. As I said, the next government has to commit to it.

Carer’s allowance is a policy that has been in place for more than 33 years. It is gender biased because it started out when the majority of carers, nearly 100% of them, were women. That has changed, but there are still more women than men carers. The idea was that it would be a small income on the side where the man provided the main income for the household. Therefore, whether a person got carer’s allowance was determined entirely by the income of the main breadwinner. We cannot continue with that situation. I want to hear from all party leaders and Independents that in the lifetime of the next government, whoever forms it, we will guarantee the abolition of the means test or, as I call it, the mean test for carer’s allowance.

Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important motion. However, I want to note my frustration. I have been calling for the abolition of the means test for the entirety of this Dáil term. I have first-hand experience. I was a carer before I was elected. My current secretary is a carer. The value of carers' work in caring for their loved ones should never have been taken for granted, even aside from the estimated savings for the State. Carers feel they have been undervalued, that they are not respected and that their work has not been honoured. They have to fight for everything and for supports and services. Their role carries huge responsibility without much support. They often cannot even go shopping or attend appointments. They put things on the long finger to ensure they are there for their loved one on a daily basis.

The Central Statistics Office, CSO, reported in the last census that the number of people in County Clare providing regular unpaid care rose by 50%. I have no doubt that has increased even further since then. In County Clare, 6.4% of the population give unpaid help or support of this nature. This means County Clare has the sixth highest percentage of unpaid carers nationwide. There are more unpaid carers in County Clare between the ages of 50 and 59 than in any other age bracket, with more than 14% of 50- to 59-year-olds providing unpaid care. The county also has the highest proportion of unpaid carers in the country between the ages of 25 and 29, with more than 4% of people in their mid to late 20s performing unpaid caring duties for a loved one with a long-term illness, health issue or disability. The fact that they have ensured the State has been able to make such massive savings year on year is disgusting and wrong, end of story.

Debate adjourned.

Dáil Éireann debate - Wednesday, 6 Nov 2024

Carer's Allowance: Motion [Private Members]

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 6 Nov 2024