Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 7 Nov 2024

Vol. 1061 No. 3

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla (Atógáil) - Topical Issue Debate (Resumed)

An Garda Síochána

Deputy Claire Kerrane

I thank the Minister of State for being here to take this Topical Issue matter this evening. This is my second time in about a month to secure a debate with regard to Garda numbers in Roscommon and Galway. The falling number of gardaí is an issue I have raised consistently in this House, especially since January when we have had a spate of burglaries. They have been happening more or less all year long and are still sadly happening. I raised these issues with the Minister for Justice, the chief superintendent in my Garda division and the Garda Commissioner. Unfortunately, the Garda Commissioner does not respond, and the Minister said that Garda allocations are a matter for the Garda Commissioner, which I understand.

In the last month alone, I have attended a protest in Castlerea in County Roscommon by the newly formed Enough is Enough campaign group, which I commend. I then attended a public meeting held by the same group in Glinsk in County Galway on the same issue. On Sunday evening last, I attended a vigil in my home town of Ballaghaderreen. That vigil was about sending a message to the Government and the Garda Commission that we need more gardaí and we need to see them out on the beat.

When it comes to Garda numbers, figures can be deceiving. For example, in July last, I received a reply from the Minister advising me that there were eight gardaí in Ballaghaderreen Garda station. This week, I was advised there are four gardaí and one sergeant, a cut of almost half in less than four months. If there were five gardaí in Ballaghaderreen who were based in the town and out and about and visible, I would not be using the town as an example here this evening. In fact, if there were five gardaí in Ballaghaderreen, people would be happy enough if they were out and about and visible in the town but, unfortunately, they are not. As I always say when I raise issues concerning the Garda, this is not the fault of gardaí, who are under incredible pressure and stretched. This is not their fault. It is important to say that.

I have put it to the Garda Commissioner and the chief superintendent that we need a specific Garda plan for rural areas. The Government should support that proposal. Irrespective of who is in government in the new year, when the next Garda Commissioner is appointed he or she should come into office without a commitment that there will be a specific plan made for rural areas.

As the Minister of State will be aware, living in a rural area can mean living in a village or town where the Garda station has been closed. It can certainly mean living in a town where Garda numbers are down, as they are in all parts of my constituency of Roscommon and Galway. In County Roscommon alone, pre-Covid we had 171 gardaí, while today we have 146. The numbers are down. To live in a rural area can mean living in an isolated place or a village where you do not have immediate access to gardaí. The way of life is very different from that in our cities. That is why we need a specific Garda plan to focus on Garda allocations in our rural towns and villages.

I understand that approximately 167 gardaí are due to pass out of Templemore College in December. We need to see a number of those gardaí coming west. People are afraid. It is a great shame, in this day and age, that anyone would be afraid in their own home. I am thinking in particular of older people who live on their own. The fear they feel going to bed at night is one they should never have but the reality on the ground is that we simply do not have enough gardaí. I ask for the support of the Government and the Minister of State's party for a specific Garda plan for our rural areas.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Deputy Thomas Byrne)

I thank Deputy Kerrane for raising this very important matter. I also convey the apologies of the Minister for Justice, Deputy Helen McEntee.

As the Deputy will be aware, by law, the Garda Commissioner is responsible for the distribution of Garda members and resources between the divisions and stations. The Commissioner is also responsible for operational policing, including policing plans. The Minister has no role and she cannot direct the Commissioner.

I assure the Deputy that the Government is committed to building stronger, safer communities and strengthening An Garda Síochána is at the core of that. Budget 2025 provided the highest ever allocation to An Garda Síochána. The funding allows for the continued recruitment of Garda members and staff and that should allow the Garda Commissioner to ensure that an effective policing service can be delivered in our towns and villages. The Department of Justice takes the safety of people living and working in rural Ireland very seriously and recognises that preventing crime does not just mean putting gardaí on the beat.

Supporting the work of the national rural safety forum, the Department published the rural safety plan. A lot has been achieved in the life of the plan which recognises that rural safety and community safety is not a job for An Garda Síochána alone. It requires a multi-agency, multi-sectoral and whole-of-Government response. The plan’s vision is to ensure people and communities in rural Ireland feel safe and are safe in their homes, places of work and local environments. The national rural safety forum is working to publish the second rural safety plan next year.

Deputy Kerrane will also be interested to note that local community safety partnerships are beginning to come on stream this year after very successful pilot partnerships in Longford, Waterford city and county and Dublin’s north-inner city. Chairpersons were appointed to eight LCSPs. The partnerships will replace and expand upon the remit of joint policing committees by providing a forum for residents and community representatives, with the relevant State agencies. Each partnership will be required to develop and publish a local community safety plan to reflect and respond to the needs of that community.

Nobody knows what their community needs better than the people who live and work there.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

I thank the Minister of State for his response. Of course, the Department of Justice recognises that preventing crime in rural areas does not just mean putting gardaí on the beat but there lies part of the problem because we do not have gardaí on the beat. If that is part of the solution, and only part, we do not have them. That is the problem. We do not see our gardaí. In towns such as Ballaghaderreen and villages such as Glinsk, people do not see gardaí. The Garda station in Ballaghaderreen is typically closed, yet, according to the Department of Justice and the figures, there are four gardaí and a sergeant allocated to the town. Part of the problem is the fact that Ballaghaderreen is in a huge divisional area. It is part of Castlerea and Boyle, which were amalgamated in 2012, something I have asked the Garda Commissioner to review. It is an area stretching a distance in excess of 67 km and I understand that at night there are two garda cars covering the area. That is impossible to do.

The fact of the matter is the number of gardaí is falling. The number of gardaí has fallen in County Roscommon and the part of east Galway I represent in the Roscommon-Galway constituency. People are in fear. There have been numerous burglaries, especially this year. People are really worried and afraid in their homes. If we saw gardaí out on the beat, it would make a huge difference. I often refer to a meeting I attended last year in a town in my constituency at which gardaí told us that although the town has the worst antisocial behaviour problem in the county, they could only offer us a Garda checkpoint by the roads policing unit. They told us they did not have gardaí to put on the beat in the town with the worst antisocial behaviour problem in the county.

This is a major issue. The solution is a Garda plan. I would like to hear whether the Minister of State's party would it support a rural Garda plan. That could be provided for the next Garda Commissioner and it is something all parties in the House should support.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

We have the rural safety plan up to 2024. There is a lot to go on and there is more to go on. We have achieved a lot and we need to achieve a lot more.

I know Ballaghaderreen well. My wife is from Sligo but Ballaghaderreen is her local town, so I know it only too well.

The Deputy may be interested to know that this week a focused Garda operation took place targeting on organised criminal group in connection with widespread burglaries in Mayo, Roscommon, Longford, Westmeath and Sligo. An investigation team was established within Sligo-Leitrim, Galway and the Mayo-Roscommon-Longford divisions to identify members of this organised criminal group and associate them to particular burglaries. Three arrests were subsequently made in the Dublin region this week and a number of vehicles were seized and technically examined. A quantity of cash, designer items and a Rolex watch, suspected to be the proceeds of crime, were also seized.

I fully agree that there needs to be a continued focus on the safety of people. Rural and urban areas have different characteristics and needs. People need to feel safe. We need to make sure we have an adequate number of gardaí. We have achieved a lot in terms of the budget for An Garda Síochána, which is the highest ever, but we need to make much more progress. I am certainly up for that challenge if the public decide to put me and my party back in Dáil Éireann.

Educational Disadvantage

Deputy Brendan Smith

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and the staff of the Houses of the Oireachtas for their assistance and support in recent years. I hope all the Deputies present will be back.

I am delighted the Minister of State at the Departments of Education and tourism and sport, Deputy Thomas Byrne, is with us. As this is the first opportunity I have had, I express my sincere thanks to him for the great work he has done with the sports capital programme and large-scale infrastructure programme. I am delighted that my county has been a major beneficiary of the sports capital programme allocations and also benefited from last week's announcement of €90 million in funding for the regional sports complex in Cavan. The complex will benefit all sporting disciplines and the wider region. That work will pay dividends for many generations to come.

The Minister of State will be fully aware, as are all Members of House, of the importance of the DEIS programme. He will recall many debates in our parliamentary party on the need to expand the programme. Thankfully, the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, was in a position to include more schools in the DEIS programme.

The Minister of State has heard all of us raise cases where schools were not included. Far too often in our public administration, there is too much administrative inertia and inaction instead of changing policy as needs and society change. Far too often, decisions are made on outdated criteria. I am speaking particularly in respect of the request by those running Scoil Phádraig Naofa in Shercock, County Cavan. They have formally requested the Department again to be included in the DEIS programme. The school authorities have outlined in great detail to the Minister, Deputy Foley, that the school serves a community that faces significant challenges like many other communities throughout the country. The school community, the board of management, the principal and her staff and the parents' association believe that DEIS status would greatly enhance their ability to support even better their students and families. Many of the students in Shercock, as the Minister of State will know representing a neighbouring area, come from backgrounds where English is an additional language. This presents unique barriers to their educational success. Additionally, like every other community, a number of families face particular challenges. The school very actively engages with the education and welfare officer, NEPS, the ISPCC, An Garda Síochána, Tusla and CAMHS in the best interest of the pupils. The school seeks and enlists the support of all the bodies that work on a daily basis with our schools. The school is very strongly of the opinion that without the additional resources and targeted programmes that are available through DEIS, their efforts will only go so far. The school community, the teachers and their support staff, most of whom I know, work very hard on programmes and initiatives to improve attendance and ensure that the pupils attain their best academic achievements possible. They believe that so much more would be done for so many more pupils if the resources of the DEIS programme were available to them.

As I said at the outset, the Pobal index is used to assess the need for delivering equality of opportunity in schools, DEIS, status. It does not accurately reflect the situation at schools such as St. Patrick's in Shercock or the unique challenges students face in particular communities. The community in Shercock experiences high levels of mobility, with many families moving in and out as parents seek employment in nearby factories. Thankfully, there is huge employment in that particular area. This transient nature can lead to under-reporting in census data that may not capture the full extent of the needs of students who have recently moved to the area, particularly the additional demand on a student and parents in regard to their lack of proficiency in the English language. When DEIS was last reviewed, the pupils' eircodes were not even inputted to the primary online database at the time. The Department should give urgent consideration to the request of Scoil Phádraig Naofa to be included in the DEIS programme. All of us in this House could identify other schools but this particular case I am putting forward today is on behalf of St. Patrick's national school, Shercock which merits urgent consideration as per the detailed submission made by the school.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta Mhic Gabhann. Tá áthas orm an freagra seo a chur os a chomhair. Gabhaim buíochas leis as an mbuíochas a ghabh sé liom maidir leis an ionad spóirt i gContae an Chabháin. I was really happy to meet officials from Cavan GAA, LGFA and Camogie Association but also with Cavan County Council at the Deputy's request. I am delighted that the Department of sport was able to approve really massive funding, the second biggest in the country after Dalymount Park. It is what we want to see. We want to see local authorities and sporting organisations working together to provide facilities for all the people.

In respect of the topic at hand, the Department of Education provides a wide range of supports to all schools, DEIS and non-DEIS, to support the inclusion of all students and address barriers to students achieving their potential. Universal supports are available to all schools to enable them to support students at risk of disadvantage. The Minister, Deputy Foley, has secured approximately €170 million in funding to provide free school books as a universal support to all primary and post-primary schools in the free education scheme. Since 2020, the Minister has provided three improvements to the teacher allocation schedule to allow for smaller class sizes in primary schools. As part of the capitation package in budget 2025, more than €30 million was secured as a permanent increase in capitation funding to help schools, now and longer term, with increased day-to-day running costs. This represents an increase of approximately 12% on current standard rates and enhanced rates. This increase is on top of the circa 9.2% increase from last year.

Supplementing the universal supports available to all schools, the DEIS programme is a key policy initiative of the Department to address concentrated educational disadvantage at school level in a targeted and equitable way across the primary and post-primary sectors. The programme is targeted at schools with the highest levels of concentrated disadvantage. Schools that were included in the programme in 2022 were those with the highest levels of concentrated disadvantage as identified through the refined DEIS identification model. Schools were not required to apply for inclusion in the DEIS programme and the model was applied fairly and equally to all schools.

The extension of the programme to new schools is just one component of work in the Minister’s vision for an inclusive education system. While the DEIS programme supports those schools with the highest levels of concentrated educational disadvantage, the Minister also recognises that there are students at risk of disadvantage in all schools. The Minister invited the OECD Education for Inclusive Societies project to review the current policy approach for the allocation of resources to support students at risk of disadvantage in Ireland. This review was published this year, and it found that while Ireland has a comparatively equitable education system, and the DEIS programme is a key instrument in that, gaps remain. The review finds that Ireland has an education system that consistently outperforms many other OECD countries but also exhibits relative socioeconomic fairness, making it one of the stronger performers globally. It also recognises the positive impact of resources provided universally to all schools, as well as the additional resources provided to schools in the DEIS programme, in addressing disadvantage. The review also highlights continued improvements over the past decade in retention and attainment levels between children and young people in DEIS and non-DEIS schools. It notes that, even with these improvements, important differences in outcomes persist between DEIS and non-DEIS schools and for children and young people from disadvantaged backgrounds, and Travellers and Roma. This information and data has also informed the Traveller and Roma education strategy, published in July. The findings and recommendations of the OECD review will help inform future policy in the area of addressing educational disadvantage.

Deputy Brendan Smith

I thank the Minister of State sincerely for his response. The model in Cavan relating to the large-scale infrastructure sports application had Cavan County Council, Cavan GAA and the Royal School collaborating and putting forward a project that brought the entire community together. It is extremely important in all walks of life. We could learn from having more collaboration across sectors, sports, etc.

I very much appreciate what the Minister for Education did. I know from school authorities who speak to their local public representatives about the benefits DEIS has brought in extra teaching resources and supports that are made available for children. We have an excellent community in Shercock. Thankfully, there is massive employment in the town, catering for a big area. We have a community with a very good football club that has great facilities. We also have an athletics club that is renowned throughout Ireland’s athletic community for the quality of its facilities. People have again worked very hard to put those facilities in place and ensure people are accommodated and given an opportunity to participate in their particular sport, in this case, athletics.

That community wants to ensure, as does the leadership in the primary school, that all children are given the best opportunity to reach their best educational attainment. We all know how impactive a good primary school education is for the future of children. In this case, where there is huge mobility and so many families whose first language is not English and additional challenges arise, consideration must be given to the inclusion of such schools in the DEIS programme. I again make the point that far too often we make decisions based on outdated strategies. A strategy may be very progressive and forward looking but things change much more rapidly in Ireland today than they ever did in the past, given the movement of people and the increase in population. There are new challenges that perhaps were not there ten or 12 years ago. The DEIS programme is of great benefit to so many pupils, schools and school communities throughout the country.

Its expansion in the future would be a very good day's work. Along with the Minister of State's work in the Department of tourism, sport and media, I compliment him also on his work in the Department of Education as Aire Stáit.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

Go raibh maith agat. Over the coming months, the Department of Education, with other education agencies and partners and other Departments and State agencies, will work to develop tangible actions informed by the recommendations set out in the OECD review. This will include consultation with school communities and St. Patrick's National School in Shercock would be very welcome to participate in this process. These actions will aim to build on the success of the DEIS programme, which, as the Deputy knows, is a key achievement of Fianna Fáil in government whereby we have laid down strong foundations. Nevertheless, he is correct. The country needs us to move forward, adapt to the changes and bring forward enhanced policies to reflect the changing Ireland. I fully agree with the Deputy and have no doubt that, if he returns to the Dáil, this will be a top priority of his as well.

Deputy Brendan Smith

That is a big challenge for me. All the other sitting TDs in the Cavan-Monaghan constituency are safe except me.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

That is certainly one the Deputy wants to get out.

Heritage Sites

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me once again to bring this issue before the House, and I thank the Minister of State for coming in to answer the question. I accept that he is not the line Minister responsible but he has been helpful in the past in dealing with this matter.

I bring it to the attention of the House once again to ensure that access to Castletown House, a protected historic mansion and a huge tourist and local amenity, can be preserved for present and future generations. In the meantime, access for the owners of the property, the Office of Public Works, OPW, is denied by virtue of a neighbour having decided to change an arrangement that had been in place when the previous landowner was in situ. Access to the house and its 200 acres, including for maintenance, has been suspended and is denied, and the public are massively discommoded. Lest it be forgotten, it is our duty to raise this issue in every way and at every time possible to ensure the State will be fully informed of its obligations as the caretaker of a national monument such as this, not only in Castletown but throughout the country, and of the need to protect, preserve and maintain such monuments.

I raise this deliberately now because I have had discussions with the line Minister, who tells me that there has been some progress in the sense that the matter has been referred to the Attorney General and that legal eagles have been detailed to deal with it to assess the possibility of making a claim prior to acquisition by compulsory purchase order. While that should have been done at least a year ago, it shows progress and demonstrates a recognition in the OPW that there has to be a solution. There is no sense in introducing a temporary arrangement or a solution that will suffice only until something else happens, or a reversionary lease, or a lease that is subject to somebody's whim to change from time to time.

On this occasion, as we near the end of the current Dáil, it is important to put in place certain parameters for the protection of national monuments such as Castletown House and its 200 acres, gardens and the heritage element of the matter concerned in a way that will carry on until the next Dáil. If it should so happen that matters are legally resolved in the meantime, so much the better, but it is important at this stage to ensure we will continue to pursue the matter indefinitely. Needless to say, we will try to continue to do so through this Dáil and into the next one if we are lucky enough to be returned to this House.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

Many of my constituents will know Castletown House in Celbridge, as will many people from various parts of the country, given it is centrally located. I thank the Deputy for his long-held and ongoing interest in Castletown House and estate. He and other elected representatives are members of the Castletown House and estate stakeholders' working group.

The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, has chaired six meetings of this working group since he took responsibility for the OPW in April. At the most recent meeting, he made clear that he will continue to be fully committed to finding a resolution. He has also met residents on another access point, along with the chairman of the OPW, to see whether that could be a resolution for temporary staff access to maintain Castletown House and grounds, and that engagement will continue. While, if agreement can be reached, this would resolve the issue of temporary staff access, the Minister of State and the OPW continue to engage on finding broader solutions to access to the Castletown estate. They want to find a solution for visitor parking and are continuing to consider and work on all options, including M4 access. The OPW is also working on a potential parking solution with the Kildare Innovation Campus. The OPW hopes to begin some topographical work on this site in the coming weeks to assess the best way forward for access.

As part of the policy to seek to reunite the historic Castletown demesne lands with the house and lands in the care of the State, the OPW has sought on several occasions to purchase the lands in question, including when the lands were offered for sale on the open market in 2022. Despite the best efforts of the OPW, however, the State was outbid and, ultimately, the lands were acquired by a private buyer. It continues to be the strategic objective of the OPW to reunite all the lands. The agency remains open to negotiations with the landowners to purchase all or part of the subject lands. In line with a commitment the Minister of State gave to the working group, he met the owners to discuss this further, and engagement will continue.

The OPW is in ongoing intensive engagement with the Office of the Attorney General to have the most comprehensive and up-to-date legal advices available to it on access routes to the estate and rights of way. I understand the latest discussion took place today and will continue with a view to having the advices finalised shortly. This is a priority for the Minister of State and the Office of Public Works. The Minister of State is keenly aware that all stakeholders want to see Castletown House and estate, and the OPW's team, welcoming both visitors and the local community to enjoy all that Castletown has to offer. He and senior management in the OPW are committed to working with all stakeholders to find a resolution in respect of the immediate situation and the long-term desire as well.

The OPW remains committed to endeavouring to acquire lands that formed part of the original estate, where they become available, to reunite the demesne. I assure the Deputy that the Minister of State and the OPW are fully committed to working with him and all elected representatives and stakeholders to find a resolution.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I appreciate the Minister of State's, dedication to the cause and appreciate it is in our mutual interest that the matter be resolved satisfactorily. Towns in his constituency, such as Kilcloon and Dunboyne, as well as Celbridge, Leixlip, Maynooth and the surrounding areas, where there are large populations, have a huge requirement for outdoor events and a huge dedication to the concept of Castletown House being used for present and future generations in the pursuit of an amenity, for historical and tourism reasons and for future expansion. Upwards of 1 million people are expected to use the access routes in future and nothing can be done until such time as the matter of access has been resolved.

In the past, analogies were drawn with Lissadell House in Sligo on the basis the State was at a considerable loss. Of course, in this instance, the State is in the same position that the owner of Lissadell was in then and is now, and he won his case in court. Every time this issue is raised in the House, the same thing is involved. This is about access to the existing house and the existing estate, which is in the ownership of the OPW. Strictly speaking, therefore, the question to be asked is how we can depend on ensuring we will have access to our own property.

By "we", I mean the people of the country and the local interest groups, which have a very strong and supportive interest.

I thank the Minister of State for his efforts in this regard. I also thank the Ceann Comhairle for repeatedly allowing the matter to be aired in the House. As I said before, I hope we are both in the House to pursue this issue in the future, if given that opportunity. I again thank the Minister of State for his efforts. We need to dedicate ourselves to access. If access is denied or prevented, we will not be able to go anywhere.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

The OPW is in ongoing and intensive engagement with the Office of the Attorney General to get the most up-to-date legal advice, and there was a discussion today. This engagement will continue in order to have the advice finalised very shortly. It is a priority for the Minister and the Office of Public Works. The interest of Deputy Durkan, the Ceann Comhairle and the public representatives in Kildare is very much appreciated.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am grateful to the Minister of State for being here to deal with this important issue. I acknowledge Deputy Durkan, who has managed to make the debate on Castletown an almost weekly event in the House.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

With your help, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle

If we were to express some regret, it is that progress has been slow on the part of the OPW. I do not know if the OPW knows exactly who it is dealing with when it is dealing with Deputy Durkan because in his long and distinguished career in this House, by God, he has shown a persistence like no other. We assume he will be pursuing the same matter in the next Dáil if it continues to be a problem, and we hope it does not.

Home Care Packages

Deputy Pauline Tully

I am raising the issue of gaps in home care provision because it is having a detrimental effect on the everyday lives of people, whether elderly or disabled. I am contacted regularly by family members of older people and disabled people who have been approved hours that are not being filled. This is where a home care package has been put in place, the person has been assessed and the hours required are approved, but they are not being filled. This happens regularly. For example, I was talking last week to a young man, Finn, who is almost 23 years of age. He has a condition called Duchenne muscular dystrophy and his mother, a single parent, is his sole carer. He has been approved for a package for seven days a week, twice a day, where two carers are to come in to get him up in the morning and change him for the day, and then are to return to put him back to bed at night. Invariably, carers do not turn up or only one will turn up when two are required, given it requires two people to turn him. This means the mother has to ask a neighbour or friend to come in and while those neighbours and friends do not mind, they may not always be available, and she should not have to rely on that sort of help on an ongoing basis.

The mother states that some of the carers are directly employed by the HSE. They come in during the week and they are generally reliable, they are trained, they know what they are doing and they stay the length of time they are supposed to. However, the HSE also relies on an agency to provide care for an amount of the time. She says that it is no exaggeration to say that 20 different people have been through her door, and they are not trained or even informed of Finn’s care needs. One carer came in and tried to move him from the back of the neck, not knowing that he has a rod in his spine. He was hurt and spent two weeks in considerable pain. The mother said this agency is not reputable, although she did not say that about all agencies. The HSE needs to review the agencies it is employing to provide the care. Preferably, I would like to see the HSE directly employing carers so this situation does not arise.

A 34-year-old lady, Lindsay, has locked-in syndrome and can only move her eyes following a stroke. She has an intensive care package of three visits a day from carers, seven days a week, with three carers at a time being required. Her parents are her carers. Again, invariably, only one or two of the carers turn up and it is not sufficient, so she is not getting the care she needs.

When I write to the HSE about this and other cases, I am given an outline of the care package approved but am told that the carers are not available. That is not good enough. People with the most need have to be prioritised so they get the care they require. We cannot have people left for a whole weekend. Finn’s mother was telephoned last Friday at 4 p.m. to be told there were no carers for the weekend. When she tried to call back, she could not get through to anyone. Sometimes the lines are only open for two hours a day and it might be that nobody answers or returns calls.

People are being left high and dry. It is a huge issue that is preventing people from going into nursing home or residential care. To be kept in their own home is their preference but it also saves the State money. While the care packages can be expensive, they would not be as expensive as if this person had to receive round-the-clock care in a nursing home. They should be facilitated to stay in their homes and given the proper care by trained professionals, who show empathy and understanding and act in a professional manner. That is not happening on an ongoing basis and families are at their wits' end.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

I thank the Deputy for sharing those stories. It is important that she shared them on the record of Dáil Éireann because it is important that those types of situations are not allowed to continue. We all hear stories like that. Nonetheless, there is actually more home care taking place. To give the exact position in Cavan, 724 people there are availing of home support services. The waiting list is currently at 146 people and, of those, 26 people on the list have no care and are waiting for their package to start. The remaining 120 people have care but are seeking more care, or perhaps staff are not available.

Joint targets have been set for Cavan and Monaghan and the target set for 2024 is for 608,416 hours of care. This year, we expect the total number of hours to be 662,000, which is 9% above the target. I accept what the Deputy says with regard to the deficits that exist, but this figure suggests 50,000 more hours this year than last year.

The HSE tells us that priority is given to those in the community with acute needs and people waiting in hospitals who want to return home with supports, although the Deputy has listed cases where that has not worked out. While there is a significant level of service provision across the area, demand continues to grow. The HSE recently reported that Cavan and Monaghan had a rolling campaign for the recruitment of healthcare assistants for home support. Since 2021, 88 new healthcare assistants for home support provision have been employed across Cavan and Monaghan and there is now a panel in place for healthcare assistants following interviews in April.

The HSE has assured the Department that it is fully committed to supporting people at home. We are committed to addressing gaps in home support in Cavan and Monaghan and nationally by supporting the recruitment of home support workers within the sector and continuing to deliver on the recommendations of the strategic workforce advisory group on home carers and nursing home healthcare assistants.

Deputy Pauline Tully

People are living longer and their care needs are going to increase, and we will have more people with neurological conditions. Rather than having them go into homes, we prefer to see people make the choice to stay in their own homes and receive the care they need. It is recognised that they need the care, and they have been assessed and approved for the hours, but those hours are just not being filled. There is a crisis in the home care sector. A further recruitment campaign is needed, as well as proper training for individuals who are going to take up that work. I believe there are people in the community willing to do that work but pay and conditions are an issue. There is a difference between the pay and conditions of someone who is directly employed by the HSE and someone employed by an agency, and we need to fill that gap. Home care providers are often driving around rural areas, such as Cavan, where some of the roads and lanes they have to travel are very poor, but they get nothing towards travel, which is another issue.

It was also brought to my attention in September that homecare providers in CHO 1, of which Cavan is a part, were told that a recent pay and numbers letter had been issued, based on directives from the CEO and CFO, and with immediate effect, there would be no increase in hours implemented unless they are reallocated from previously ceased hours.

They are saying that new home care packages can still be approved but those awaiting additional hours will not be funded for those hours that they have been clinically assessed as needing. There seems to be a pull-back here because of money in not providing this essential care that people need in the community. That is very serious. We cannot have a blunt instrument where we cut people off and tell them we are not giving any more money, whether people need it or not. People have to be assessed to ensure they are given the hours they require to live comfortably and safely in their own homes.

The young man, Finn, I spoke about earlier, has now got to the stage where he is nearly afraid to let others help him get out of bed because they are not trained and he is afraid of falling. He is almost confined to bed because of the lack of trained carers who are coming in to him.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

The details of Finn's case and the other case the Deputy mentioned should be provided to the chief executive of the HSE and the Secretary General of the Department. As I said, the number of hours this year is 10% higher than we budgeted for and it is approximately 9% higher than what was provided in 2023, so there are a lot more hours available. There have been some improvements, including the new HSE authorisation scheme for home support, which has been in place since August, for payments to approved private and voluntary providers to deliver home support on behalf of the HSE. This delivers on commitments for sectoral reform, such as payment for travel time for home support providers, paying carers the national living wage at a minimum, and bringing legacy rates into line with the new revised rates of funding. We think this will help. This is work that has been done under this Government. I know there is a lot more to do but we have recognised some of the points the Deputy has raised and taken steps to address them. However, we need to do more; there is no question about that and we certainly want to do so.

An Ceann Comhairle

Táimid tagtha chun deiridh le clár oibre an lae inniu, clár oibre na seachtaine agus deiridh na hoibre don Tríú Dáil is Tríocha. Arís, gabhaim buíochas le gach ball den fhoireann as ucht na cabhrach a thug siad dúinn le blianta beaga anuas. Tréaslaím leo an sárobair a dhéanann siad. Go n-éirí go geal le gach ball, iad siúd atá ag éirí as agus iad siúd atá ag dul ar aghaidh arís ag iarraidh teacht thar n-ais go dtí an an Ceathrú Dáil is Tríocha. Leis sin, tá an Dáil ar athló sine die. Go raibh míle maith agaibh.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 3.43 p.m. sine die.

The Dáil adjourned at 3.43. p.m. sine die.