Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 25 Feb 2025

Vol. 1063 No. 4

Driver Test Waiting Times: Motion [Private Members]

Deputy Pa Daly

I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

notes, with concern, the huge backlog in those waiting on a driving test, with 72,414 people now in limbo, an increase of over 60 per cent since 2022;

is alarmed by the fact that this backlog grew by nearly 10,000 over the last three months;

acknowledges that no test centre is meeting the statutory maximum of 10 weeks in the service level agreement (SLA), with many learner-drivers regularly having to wait over six months to sit a test and some waiting as long as eight months;

is not reassured that the Road Safety Authority (RSA), who have statutory responsibility for the operational aspects of the national driving test, has the capacity or ability to address these backlogs, and are consistently in breach of their own SLA;

is concerned with the continued shortages in driving test instructors, and is not satisfied that recruitment processes since 2022 have been sufficient to address the growing backlog;

notes that excessive wait times are especially pronounced for those who rely on a driving licence for educational or employment purposes, including drivers for Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus or paramedics who require a licence prior to entry to the course, delaying the provision of additional services; and

acknowledges that the practice of hiring temporary driving test instructors led to a large turnover of testers, leading to a loss of local knowledge and experience;

recognises that:

— learner drivers are trapped on expensive insurance policies, pushing up the cost of learning to drive to €3,000 in some parts of the country; and

— many areas of the country have no driving test centre, with many people having to travel long distances to take a test, and placing upward pressure on already stretched driving test centres around the country; and

regrets the closure of permanent and temporary test centres around the country, and the failure of the Office of Public Works (OPW) and the RSA to find new sites; and

calls on the Government to:

— acknowledge its responsibility to ensure that when demand for public services increase, this must be matched by additional resources to meet demand;

— instruct the Minister for Transport to take immediate action to expedite and increase the recruitment of additional permanent driving test instructors;

— end the over reliance on hiring temporary driving test instructors;

— conduct an urgent review of the capacity of the RSA to address the backlog in driving tests, including its mandate, resourcing, and programme of work;

— address the shortfall in driving test centres across the country, and to instruct the OPW and the RSA to urgently identify suitable sites to fill those gaps; and

— draft, and implement without delay, a strategic plan to achieve the statutory maximum waiting time of 10 weeks.

Driver test delays the length and breadth of the country have reached staggering new peaks. Some 72,414 people are now in limbo, up 60% on 2022. In the past three months, there has been an increase of 10,000. We take no pleasure in the fact that we have again been forced to confront the Government on this issue. I am sure that every Deputy from every constituency - rural and urban - has been contacted by people facing interminable delays. They are trapped in outrageously expensive insurance policies, who must pay more and more for driving lessons while waiting on jobs and courses.

There is a deep sense of frustration. People are dependent on having a licence and they are waiting for it. They are also frustrated by the Government's continued failure to address it. This is not a new issue; this crisis has been rumbling on for years. It is another example of a litany of failures by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, and now their coalition partners - the Lowry-led Independents, who must own up to their role in sorting this out. After all, many of the Government-supporting Rural Independent Group were highly critical of these delays when they were in opposition, before they decided to support the Government in exchange for their new positions and salary bonuses, but they forgot to include this important issue in the programme for Government. I hope they still retain the courage of their convictions when they are sitting on the Government benches.

One particular issue I want to highlight is the impact the situation is having on young people. As the Minister will be aware, for many young people having a licence cannot be considered to be just an option, it is an absolute necessity, because public transport is either totally non-existent or entirely unreliable in many areas of rural Ireland. Without a valid licence, young people are prevented from going about their daily lives; they are missing out on attending college and unable to take up new jobs, all because they are languishing for months on end on waiting lists.

The backlog has also pushed up the cost of learning to drive because learner drivers are trapped in expensive insurance policies for longer than anticipated. They often pay an average of approximately €3,000 per year while they anxiously wait to sit their test. We know that the Government is out of touch, but even it must realise that further driving up costs for young people who can barely afford to make ends meet is hardly the way to entice them to stay in the country.

One young constituent of mine in County Kerry has been particularly harmed by the Government's failure to get a grip on this issue. He is the sole carer for his father and he must return every night to look after him. However, without a licence he has been forced to choose between attending college and looking after his father. That is not much of a choice.

The Government needs to wake up. It has been asleep at the wheel for too long. I call on the Government to agree to this motion, adopt it, increase resources to meet the demand, hire more permanent instructors, review the role and funding of the Road Safety Authority, RSA, and address the gaps in driver test centres around the country.

Deputy Louis O'Hara

This is a very important motion given the lengthy delays people across the State face in securing driver tests. More than 72,000 people are currently waiting - an increase of 60% since 2022. This has been an issue for years, but it is at crisis point now and action is needed to urgently address the backlog.

We know why we are in this situation. It is because there has been a failure to recruit enough driver testers. We have been totally over-reliant on temporary testers. We do not have enough test centres and it is clear that the RSA does not have the capacity or ability to address the backlogs, which breaches its own service level agreement.

This impacts hugely on people, mostly young people, who need to drive and are missing out on employment and educational opportunities as a result. It particularly impacts those who need a driver's licence to begin a job - the likes of bus drivers, paramedics, and so on who we know are badly needed. It leaves people stranded, particularly those in rural communities who do not have public transport available to them. The Government often does not understand the reality of life in rural Ireland. We do not have good quality public transport. We do not have buses going by our door every few minutes. We rely on cars to transport ourselves. That will continue to be the reality for many in rural communities for the foreseeable.

Young people in rural communities need to be able to drive. It is critical for their independence and to be able to lead an adult life, but many are being denied that opportunity for months on end. It is not fair or sustainable for them to be left having to rely on lifts from friends or family members to get around. This also leads to social isolation. This is the same generation that is suffering with the housing crisis and the rising costs of education among other things. They cannot also be left stuck at home; they need support to live independent lives. The Government must step up to the plate to provide for that.

In my county of Galway, the waiting time for an invitation to a driver test ranges from 15 to 29 weeks. The waiting times are longer in other parts of the State. That is totally unacceptable. It is causing significant difficulties for young people in my constituency and across the State.

Learning to drive is difficult enough and expensive enough as it is. Learner drivers have to pay outrageous insurance premiums and a lot of money for lessons. The delays only prolong the situation. We must ease the burden on young people and support them to start their adult life and get the opportunities that driving can present to them.

It is very clear that more resources are needed to meet demand. This means ending the overreliance on temporary driver testers and expediting the recruitment of permanent testers. There must be an urgent review of the RSA's mandate, resourcing and programme of work. Its performance is a key factor in all of this and cannot be ignored.

New test centres must be established, particularly in areas where there are none at present. There are large gaps in some locations and these must be filled by the RSA as a matter of urgency. We need some political will from the Government to ensure that these changes are made and driver tests are easily accessible to those applying for them.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

Currently, if I apply for a driver test in my county of Wexford, I will get an invitation date for a test on 25 August 2025. I would then have to wait another three to five weeks after that for my actual test date. As of 21 January 2025, the number of applications in County Wexford was 5,643. The volume per centre is as follows: Gorey, 2,723 and Wexford, 2,920. The estimated waiting times for an invitation date in each centre is 20 weeks and 25 weeks, respectively. We can add another three to five weeks onto that for the test date.

The national figure indicates that there are 72,000 people awaiting a driver test.

In many rural parts of Wexford, people waiting on the driving test depend completely on family and friends to bring them to their place of employment or education, as public transport is not an option or, in most cases, not available. I will give two examples from my constituency of the burden this incompetence is causing thousands of young people and their families. I know a father of two men in their early 20s who are both working and have both been waiting months on end for a driving test. This man had to get up at 5.30 a.m. every day to bring his two sons to work. The sons worked in different places, which meant a round trip of approximately 60 km for the man. He then had to turn around, go to work and repeat the journey in the evening. Another man, who is self-employed, had to bring his daughter to work in a local village shop about 20 km away. Again, this meant an early start in the morning and a return trip in the evening. The result was that the girl had to give up her job as her father's work took him miles away in the opposite direction. This must surely indicate to the Minister that the system is not fit for purpose and is failing. If this were any other business, it would be put through a root-and-branch reform, especially when we consider that Exchequer funding is expected to be in the region of almost €1 million this year. According to the Government's Revised Estimates, the RSA's income is anticipated to reach almost €90 million. People are paying for a good service and therefore, it is reasonable to expect a top quality service in return. However, this is certainly not the case when we see the huge backlogs.

The people of Wexford are disappointed by the recent allocation for road maintenance and road funding of €23,310,000. This is down almost €150,000 on last year. This is despite the fact that a comprehensive engineering report stated that one third of the roads need full reconstruction, estimated to cost in the region of €190 million. Once again, Wexford has been short-changed.

Deputy Joanna Byrne

The statutory maximum waiting time for a driving test is ten weeks and no test centre in the country is meeting that or even coming close to it. There is no driving test centre in Drogheda, the largest town in Ireland and the sixth largest urban centre in the State. What will become the next city in the country has no driving test centre of its own. People in south Louth and east Meath have to travel to do their driving tests, usually to Navan or Dundalk, but sometimes to Dublin, due to waiting times. They have to drive on unfamiliar roads with no local knowledge and it may be the only time they drive those roads. To add to the inconvenience of having to travel for driving tests, the waiting time in the Navan test centre is 35 weeks, while in Dundalk it is 23 weeks. There are 76 test centres around the country. In some cases, towns far smaller than Drogheda have two test centres. People in Drogheda do not begrudge this, but it is genuinely farcical at this stage that a permanent driving test centre site cannot be found in Drogheda, the largest town in lreland, after seven years of searching. Up and down the country, there are driving test centres operating out of offices and rooms in hotels, yet the Government cannot seem to locate a single building in Drogheda that is suitable for a test centre.

According to the RSA, 14 sites were inspected in Drogheda last year. Of those 14 sites, seven were deemed to be not suitable but no reason was given. Traffic was given as the reason for not allowing a centre at other sites. Can anyone in the Government or the RSA really state, with a straight face, that there no traffic issues around any of the other driver testing routes throughout the State? In another one, the reason given was the presence of speed ramps. Traffic and speed ramps are a fact of life for all drivers, so it beggars belief that the RSA would not want drivers to be prepared for them.

At present, there are 45,000 people living in Drogheda, as the Minister knows, as he does not live too far away. The population is set to increase by around 20,000 in the next five years under the northern environs plan, with 5,000 new homes forecast or under way. We need a driving test centre to serve a large population in a large geographical area spanning south Louth and east Meath. If we are to reduce the waiting times I highlighted earlier for driving tests in Navan and Dundalk, then a driving test centre must be opened in Drogheda as soon as possible.

The Government and RSA need to meet their commitments and provide driving tests within the statutory waiting time. Drogheda has been sidelined for too long, There are no excuses that will suffice any longer. A permanent test centre for Drogheda has to become a priority for all stakeholders.

Deputy Johnny Guirke

The waiting time for a driving test in Meath is disgraceful. The Government has been warned about it for years. Many people are waiting for up to 35 weeks and in some cases even longer to do their driving test. This is completely unacceptable. Navan has the longest waiting list in the country, with an estimated waiting time of 35 weeks for a driving test, with some people waiting even longer. We now have 72,414 people trapped in limbo. This is an alarming increase of more than 60% since 2022. In just three months, the backlog has grown by nearly 10,000. Not a single driver test centre is meeting the statutory maximum waiting time of ten weeks. Learners are being forced to wait six months or more, with some waiting up to eight months. The repercussions of this backlog are devastating and far-reaching. People of all ages have had to turn down job offers and college places because they cannot obtain a full driving licence, which is often essential for employment and education. Imagine being qualified and ready to work only to be held back by an inefficient system.

Students are left stranded and unable to get to college due to a public transport system that cannot meet their needs. How many potential workers are we losing when they are eager to contribute but simply cannot drive because of the lengthy driving test waiting lists? For example, those who wish to return from America face a lengthy wait in obtaining a full licence. The issue could be resolved with a simple bilateral agreement which would allow people to exchange their American licence for an Irish one. This is a straightforward solution and could facilitate the return of skilled individuals. We already have similar agreements with other countries such as Canada, France and Germany. The Taoiseach spoke earlier about the diaspora and the undocumented. This is his chance to do something. We are crying out for construction and healthcare workers. We need to make it easier for returning emigrants.

The recent allocation for road improvements is a drop in the ocean compared to what is truly needed. It is clear that these funds will not cover the urgent repairs essential for the safety of drivers. Government TDs should be ashamed of themselves. The people of Meath pay almost €60 million per year in motor tax. We need immediate action. The Government needs to acknowledge its responsibility. It must expedite the recruitment of permanent driving test instructors, end the overreliance on temporary staff and conduct a thorough review of the RSA's capacity to manage this crisis. We need more driver test centres and a strategic plan to ensure we achieve the statutory waiting time of ten weeks and less. I feel sorry for the many workers who contact me having missed out on job opportunities because of this backlog. They deserve a system that works for them. Under the watchful eye of Government, the RSA was quick to increase prices, but slow to improve services.

Deputy Cathy Bennett

In April of last year, the then Fianna Fáil Minister of State at the Department of Transport, and now Minister for public expenditure, described the prior hiring of 30 testers as not enough. He assured us that we would see significant progress between October and the end of the year and that we would get back to a ten-week waiting time early in the following year. It is now early 2025 and the backlog has increased by nearly 10,000 in the past three months, having increased by more than 4,000 since mid-January alone, with no sign of abatement. This is yet another instance of a Fianna Fáil Minister overpromising in advance of an election, only to underdeliver in the clear light of day. The impact of this failure is very real. More than 1,200 drivers in Cavan and Monaghan are stuck paying expensive insurance policies. People have no choice but to use their cars to get to work or college and to go about their daily lives.

I thank my party colleague and Sinn Féin spokesperson on transport, Deputy Pa Daly, for bringing forward this motion and outlining, in the first instance, the need for the Minister to take responsibility and take immediate action to recruit new permanent driver testers rather than continuing to rely upon temporary hires. In principle, it is straightforward - when demand for public services increases, it must be matched by the resources necessary to meet that demand. It is clear that, as of today, the RSA does not have the capacity to address these backlogs and that what is needed is the drafting and urgent implementation of a plan to achieve the statutory minimum waiting time of ten weeks. Sinn Féin has outlined what is required. It is now for the Minister to show if he is capable of delivery.

Minister for Transport (Deputy Darragh O'Brien)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta Daly agus lena chomhghleacaithe i Sinn Féin as an rún atá á phlé againn.

I welcome the opportunity to address the House and update it on the national driver testing service. I acknowledge the concerns that have been raised by Deputies. I also note the lack of some constructive points on what we would do. To leave that aside, it is an issue and unquestionably waiting times are too long. I agree it is a vital public service and the public needs an efficient and dependable driver testing service when undertaking their journey to pass their driver test and to learn how to drive. This is not at a service level I believe is acceptable. In the course of my contribution, I will tell the House what we are doing about it. For this reason, I can confirm the Government will not oppose the motion.

Every Member of the House has heard from constituents, as I have, about the issues and challenges that extended driver testing wait times have on individuals and families. There is no disagreement that the current waiting times are far in excess of what is acceptable. I assure Deputies across the House that measures have been taken to address the issue. I expect that we will begin to see progress in the coming months. I am prioritising this issue in my engagements with the RSA's board, its new chair, whom we appointed this morning, and its senior management team. Deputies opposite may be aware of the transformation programme on which we are engaging in the Road Safety Authority.

It is important to note that under the Road Safety Authority Act, the Road Safety Authority has statutory responsibility for the national driver testing service. The Sinn Féin motion calls on me to take immediate action to expedite the ongoing recruitment process but the legislation passed by the Oireachtas states the operation of the service is in the statutory remit of the RSA, and neither I nor my officials are directly involved in the operation of the service. Steps have, however, been taken to support the RSA so it can carry out the job it is mandated to do and which it needs to do. It is about increasing service capacity and improving service delivery.

As Deputies are aware, the driver testing service wait time is far above the service level agreement target of ten weeks. A number of Deputies alluded to this. As a point of clarity, I must point out the Opposition motion is incorrect that the target is defined in statute as it is not. Nevertheless, it is an important target and one the RSA should meet and needs to deliver. For the information of the House, the wait time at the end of January was 22 weeks and not ten weeks. In some of the busiest test centres the current wait time is more than 30 weeks. This is far too long. It is unacceptable that people must wait that amount of time for a test. It has been trending in the wrong direction. I understand the concerns of the Deputies who spoke. Most importantly, I understand the frustration of the individuals directly impacted by these delays. Fundamentally, these rising waiting times have been driven by rapidly increasing demand and population growth. This demand can be seen in the number of learner permits in circulation and in the record number of advanced driver instructors working in the sector to deliver lessons to learner drivers.

Last year was the busiest year in the history of the service. It is important we put this debate in context. The RSA received just under 275,000 new driver test applications, which was 10% above its projections for last year. The applications also added to the backlog which, as Deputies know, arose following the pandemic and has persisted as a result of incoming demand outstripping the RSA's capacity. Waiting times increased from last April onwards as the number of driver testers in employment declined due to a mix of retirement, fixed-term contracts reaching their conclusion and testers taking up alternative offers of employment. To try to meet the demand, there was extensive working of overtime by driver testers to mitigate the impact on customers, an incentive programme for testers to deliver additional tests, the introduction of the short-notice cancelled slot system and the continuation of a priority list for healthcare workers, which I believe is very important. In total more than 250,000 tests were delivered last year. None of the Deputies opposite mentioned the 250,000 tests carried out last year.

I have sought to support the RSA in meeting this demand and in addressing the issue of lengthy driver test waiting times by sanctioning additional driver tester positions to increase capacity in the system. Deputies have alluded to the fact that in March 2023 fixed-term contracts were given to 75 additional driver testers, for contracts of up to two years. The Opposition motion questions, as is its right, recruiting driver testers on a temporary basis. It was the right decision at the time, particularly after the pandemic, to see how the increased number would deal with the backlog. It is also important to highlight that average driver testing times over the period significantly improved. The average went from a peak of more than 30 weeks in August 2023 to 14.9 weeks in 2024. However, the total number of testers in employment at any point never exceeded 176. As I outlined, it declined in 2024.

Following its long-term assessment of capacity requirements, the RSA prepared a business case for the permanent sanction of additional driver testers. On receipt of the business case, the Department moved swiftly to sanction 70 additional driver testing posts on a permanent basis. This was done in September last year. The total permanent sanctioned driver test headcount today is 200, representing a doubling of the permanent headcount in just over two years. There have been 100 extra since June 2022. I understand the recruitment campaign to hire additional driver testers is at an advanced stage. Offers are being made to new recruits and are being prioritised for areas experiencing the longest waiting times. These resources will go in particular to the areas where the longest wait times are being experienced. A recruitment campaign of this size takes time. Deputies may appreciate that, or they may not, but it was sanctioned in September 2024 and the posts will be and are being filled. This will help us move progressively to work towards the ten-week service level agreement target as new testers are trained and brought on board. Furthermore, the RSA believes the permanent positions now available will attract and retain a higher number of driver testers so that progress in tackling waiting times can be better sustained.

With regard to the Deputies' concerns about the number of driver testing centres, I note the point made by the Deputy from Louth specifically on Drogheda. I also note the fact she might inform her colleague from Cavan-Monaghan that she has acknowledged the 5,000 new homes being built in Drogheda. Drogheda is, indeed, the fastest growing town in the country. The RSA will regularly collaborate with the OPW. I am interested in the points that have been raised about the reasons certain potential driver testing centres have been refused. I will look into this and I intend to engage with the RSA. It manages its capital programme and staff. I do not do so. However, I want to see this situation improve. We can do so with the additional posts in place, focusing them on the areas with the greatest of need. I have also dealt with young people and not-so-young people who are waiting for new jobs and new positions and who are dependent on their ability to get a timely driver test. I welcome that the healthcare worker prioritisation will remain in place. These are matters I will address directly with the RSA.

I am also aware that, in the case of Drogheda, lengthy engagements and extensive searches, as have been outlined, have taken place. There should be a driver testing centre in Drogheda. My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, will meet the RSA shortly. I am sure the Deputies opposite are doing likewise. He will discuss the concerns. I will also continue to do so.

The motion is in line with the principles and policies of the Government in terms of defining expectations for service levels. State agencies across the board, and those in my remit, need to focus on the customer and on delivering the service. The backlog was there because of circumstances, particularly through Covid when it was difficult to carry out tests. People remember social distancing. A backlog built up. That is a fact and a reality. It had to be dealt with. Waiting times did reduce but they did not reduce far enough. The 70 additional posts focused on the right areas will help. I will also advance with the RSA additional driver testing centres. I will keep the Deputies and the Oireachtas committee informed of progress. I look forward to the contributions in the debate from Members opposite from all parties, Independents and from the Government. I will listen to the debate intently.

Deputy Donna McGettigan

I thank our colleague, Deputy Pa Daly, for bringing forward this motion. While I welcome that the Minister will not oppose it and I accept that many tests have been completed, there is no denying that the waiting list is growing. Is the Minister saying he cannot step in and that this is all down to the RSA?

We all know a driving licence is not a luxury; it is essential. Not being able to drive might mean missing out on work opportunities, education, family occasions and more. This is especially true outside of large cities. Public transport in rural Ireland leaves a lot to be desired and many people simply cannot afford to rely on it for work, college, shopping, doctors' appointments or other activities. Before anyone can sit the driving test, they must have held their learner permit for a minimum of six months and must have successfully completed at least 12 essential driver training lessons. To then have to wait an average of five months is unacceptable. In some cases, tests have been deferred. This is not helping those who depend on having a licence for a new job. Someone who requires a driving licence for work cannot afford to wait 11 months to get one and businesses trying to hire drivers cannot afford it either. The possible economic knock-on effects on the economy cannot be dismissed. In addition, people who have completed their 12 lessons have just acquired a brand-new skill they will need to practise. If they are forced to wait many months, they may start to lose those skills resulting in them being more likely to fail the test. This is a waste of their time and money and the time and money of the State.

In addition to the need for extra testers, we need extra test centres with full-time staff. My town of Shannon in County Clare has a population of more than 10,000, yet we do not have a test centre. People are reliant in testers coming in from elsewhere and testers have to meet learner drivers in hotel car parks. This is a shambles. I have been told that there were no tests done in Shannon in January. This is not a new problem. The Minister must have been aware of it for years. I am glad, therefore, to see that he will take steps. I hope this will be addressed as a matter of urgency.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

This is a very important matter given that many people nowadays depend on being able to drive for work. While the Minister mentioned progress being made, progress has been slow. I, like probably every other TD here, can cite cases where people have not had access to a test and seem to have ended up in whatever hole the RSA has created to swallow up applications. We end up with people paying extra money for lessons to keep their hand in. They must also make sure they have the money for the test and ensure their car is not just sitting there. However, they cannot drive the car or go to the test centre because they do not have a licence. The car is often left sitting with insurance and tax paid on it and they wait and wait. I have had a number of cases in recent months - it seems to be getting worse - of people who have jobs and are awaiting clearance but cannot get the test. They have spent a substantial amount of money on insurance and they cannot avail of it or work.

There is also the issue of those who have licences from abroad, such as truck drivers, who come back to Ireland and whose licences are not recognised. They end up losing the work they have come home to do because they their licence is not recognised. In one case, a man came back from Australia and lost out because his licence was not recognised even though he had gone to Australia with an Irish licence and changed it over there. If he went to the North, his licence would be recognised straight away.

Then there is the issue of the theory tests. The fact is this is a money-making scam. The Government is robbing people, especially young people who are trying to jump the first hurdle, by asking them for a lot of money and then changing the rules time and again. There are not many theory tests centres. There are only four in Dublin. We should use the library service. It would be a lot easier, it is digital and we would put money back into the local authorities if we used the library service. The amount young people are being charged should be reduced. Every year since I have been in the Dáil, Ministers have spoken about how great they are doing and how the waiting lists for driver tests would be reduced. It has not happened and the Government must make sure it happens.

Deputy David Cullinane

Some 72,000 learner drivers are languishing on waiting lists, of whom 10,000 have come on to the waiting lists in the last three months alone. I do not think we can blame anybody but the Government for that one. The Minister said the maximum ten-week waiting time is not a statutory target; maybe it should be. There is a possibility that the Opposition will bring forward a Bill to rectify that. If so, I hope the Minister will support it.

The Minister talked about solutions. This is not rocket science. It is fairly easy to identify what the problem is and what the solution is. We do not have enough driving instructors. We have a lot of temporary instructors, but there are many areas in which we know there are gaps and we do not have enough driving instructors. What is the solution? We hire more driving instructors. We do not have enough test centres. Some of them are also temporary. In some areas we do not have any test centres. We have identified the obvious solution, which is to get the RSA and OPW to identify the gaps and make sure that every city and county has enough test centres. It is not rocket science. The problem is the fact that it is beyond the comprehension or ability of the Government to resolve it.

Deputy Darragh O'Brien

It is not.

Deputy David Cullinane

It is, because there are many people who do not have the tests within the target timeframes they should. The Minister may get a chance to respond again later.

I want to refer to one example of a young man from Waterford who contacted me. He is not interested in glib responses from the Minister. He is interested in the Minister coming up with solutions and actually dealing with the problem. He needs his licence for work. He finished his lessons and was signed off at the start of September. He was originally told he would be invited for a test by 10 January. He was then told it would be 17 March at the earliest and possibly later than that. After that, he would have to wait another three or four weeks to get the test. That is the reality, unfortunately, and unless we have more driving instructors and permanent test centres, many more people will have to wait longer for the test. That is unfair on them. It is something that can be fixed.

Deputy Martin Kenny

When I held the transport portfolio, which is about a year and a half ago now, the Minister's predecessor, Deputy Jack Chambers, told me this was all being solved, sorted out and going in the right direction. I remember him standing here and telling us that more driving test instructors were being recruited, more testing centres would be opened and everything was in hand and would be sorted out. The truth is that we have gone in the opposite direction since then. The figures bear this out. There are more than 72,000 people now on the waiting list, which is the longest it has ever been. Some have been on the waiting list for up to eight months. It simply is not good enough. Someone applying for a driving test today in Sligo would wait seven months to get one. Someone applying for one in Leitrim today would wait up to six months to get one. It is outrageous.

People who live in rural communities and areas simply cannot manage without their car. They need it to get to work. For young people starting out, the car is the only method they have of travelling because we do not have the public transport infrastructure that urban areas have. It needs to be recognised that the Government has dropped the ball in respect of this. To pass the buck to the RSA and say it has not done this or that or that everything has been done that can be done simply does not stand up. We need to recognise that we have an awful lot of work to do. People need their car to get to work or to hospital appointments and to get their children to school. The Government cuts transport in every other way. Every September, Deputies fight in this Chamber to get pupils on school buses. Many children living in rural areas cannot get a school bus. People need their car to bring their children to school. This particularly affects younger couples when one of them has to get a driving licence.

Recently, a doctor who returned from America contacted our office. He could not transfer his US licence and ended up for several months having to get a taxi to call into the hospital when he was working late nights and to travel to and from work. If he wanted to drive a car, he had to get somebody who was a qualified driver to travel with him. It is preposterous that people who return from the US cannot get their driving licences transferred over. This needs to be resolved. I know the Minister agrees with me on that but why has it not been resolved?

Deputy Darragh O'Brien

It is done on a case-by-case basis.

Deputy Martin Kenny

These are the issues we need to deal with. They need to be treated with a sense of urgency, rather than continually passing the buck. We are asking for the implementation of a strategic plan to achieve the magic ten-week target for the waiting list. That is what needs to happen. I recognise that the Government is not going to oppose the motion but that is not enough. The Minister needs to act on it and deliver ten-week waiting times. That is the least people should expect.

Deputy Ciarán Ahern

My thanks to Deputy Daly and Sinn Féin for bringing forward this motion. The Labour Party will be supporting it. I take this opportunity to congratulate the new chair of the RSA, Anne Graham. I wish her well in her role. I hope she is listening.

I am of the belief that we should be doing everything we can to encourage people to use greener, more sustainable modes of transport. This means making sure that transport is available to everyone and that the option to travel by bus or by rail or to cycle is there for them wherever they might be going. The unfortunate reality, though, is that we are not there yet. There is a whole host of reasons people remain reliant on their cars, be it accessibility, connectivity or efficiency. In some parts of the country, public and active travel infrastructure is virtually non-existent. There have been improvements in recent years, which we welcome, but these have come at a fairly slow pace and have still not got us to a place where public transport is a viable option for most people. That needs to change, and Government will need to invest, significantly and continuously, in order that we will have the necessary infrastructure and that everyone across the country will have the option of using public transport or engaging in safe active travel.

We recognise that, for now, private car use remains the preferred and, in some cases, the only option for many people. In that context, we need to get a serious handle on the backlog of driving test applications and the wait times that we are seeing. Ultimately, this is an issue of road safety. Some 174 people died on our roads last year. There has been a worrying increase in the number of road casualties in recent years. The figures have been trending in the wrong direction. I was glad that we had the opportunity a couple of weeks ago to discuss road safety. We need to improve road maintenance across the country, we need more enforcement of the rules of the road and we need to reduce speed limits. Ongoing driver education must also play a part.

What is particularly stark is the number of young people who are dying or being seriously injured in road traffic accidents. People aged 25 or younger represented 35% of the fatalities on our roads last year, the highest proportion among any age group. That is up from around 25% in 2023 and 16% the previous year. Between 2019 and 2023, there were 131 road traffic accidents involving learner drivers in which someone was killed or seriously injured. In 107 of those cases, the learner driver was unaccompanied. I am by no means trying to assign blame here. Obviously, each case will have been different. However, I raise this issue because the longer people are waiting to do their driving test, the more they are tempted to drive illegally without a full licence. The more they try their luck, the more chance there is that they will pick up bad habits that are difficult to unlearn. We simply cannot have people driving unaccompanied on our roads if they have not passed their test, and potentially in some cases, people have not even done the mandatory 12 lessons. This poses a serious risk not just to those drivers themselves but the road users around them as well.

This is not just about having a driving licence for the sake of it. Young people are being pushed further and further away from college campuses because of the lack of affordable housing. Where there is no public transport option available to them, they need to be able to drive to college or else face torturous commutes. The long-term solution has to be better public transport. In the meantime, we have to address the fact that students are dropping out of college because they simply cannot get there and many of them are languishing on a driving test waiting list. We are also seeing people miss out on job opportunities because having a driving licence is a requirement and they cannot get a test in time. We are seeing much-needed apprentices, for example, left high and dry because they cannot get their driving licence, and are forced to either pause or drop out of the apprenticeship altogether.

Many people in my constituency of Dublin South West work in the industrial estates along the M50. There is very little direct public transport access to the latter so they have to rely on private cars to get there. Workers who are waiting for driving tests are being let down and are missing opportunities. That is before considering the additional financial burden being placed on people waiting for their test by way of the increased insurance premiums for learner drivers. Probably most concerning - this issue is referred to in the motion - is the knock-on effect the backlog and waiting times are having on vital individuals and services like paramedics and the haulage and public transport sectors. There is a vicious cycle emerging that is preventing us from encouraging people to use public transport. People are forced to rely on private cars because of inadequate or unreliable bus services, but we cannot improve those services because providers like Dublin Bus or Go-Ahead cannot get the drivers who are potentially waiting for driving licences.

I welcome the comments the Minister made in respect of not opposing the motion. It is quite clear that there has been serious mismanagement by the RSA and the Government with respect to virtually all aspects of our roads, be it in the context of road safety or driving test wait times.

As an aside to the matter this motion deals with, but not unrelated, NCT waiting times are also outrageous and are undoubtedly exacerbated by the delays elsewhere in the system. These need urgent attention as well. Ultimately, it appears that the RSA is unfortunately incapable of fulfilling its aim of a ten-week maximum waiting period for a test. The national average is more than double that. Looking at the data, there is not a single test centre in the country that is meeting the ten-week goal. In my constituency, the Tallaght testing centre is seeing waiting times of 27 weeks. More than 8,300 people are waiting for tests there. That is nowhere near good enough.

The Government has to take its share of responsibility. In April 2023, the then Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Deputy Jack Chambers, said that by the end of quarter 1 of 2024, the waiting times for applicants would be down to ten weeks. The following October, he said it would be mid-2024 before this was achieved. I believe that was during a debate on a motion on this topic brought forward by the Rural Independent Group, some of whom are now members of this Government. Perhaps they will have a word with the Minister or with themselves, because here we are almost two years after the initial promise was made and the massive backlog and wait times persist. The Government simply has not given it the urgency or attention required and the issue is compounding problems elsewhere in the transport system.

As I have said previously, it is welcome that there will be a separation of functions in the RSA arising out of the recent review of that organisation. We need to see an implementation plan that sets out the framework of the new organisation, if there is to be one, particularly with regards to its testing functions and the resources being put behind it in the context of this motion. As the motion states, we need to end the practice of hiring temporary driving test instructors. More broadly, we need to ensure that the new entity is sufficiently resourced both to address the current issues and to ensure that they do not arise again. That does include opening new testing facilities, and I hope the OPW and RSA are working to identify potential sites now. We did have temporary test centres during Covid. It is obvious that they were closed prematurely. I suggest that Government explore the possibility of reopening these sites in the interim in order that the backlog does not worsen while new permanent sites are being identified.

I will conclude by reiterating my support for the motion. It is a constructive motion, and I am glad to see that the Government may be taking it on board. We desperately need to increase the number of driving test instructors, we need to properly resource the RSA or whatever entity follows it, and we need new testing sites to relieve the pressure on existing sites. All of this needs to be done in conjunction with increased, sustained investment into public and active transport so that we are not so reliant on private cars, and that sustainable travel is available and accessible to everyone.

Deputy Ged Nash

Drogheda is Ireland's largest town that is yet to become a city. We do not have a driving test centre. We had a temporary driving test centre for a couple of years, located in a local football club. The RSA decided it would not renew that contract this time two years ago, leaving Drogheda without any form of driving test centre. What did it do? It blamed the local residents when an arrangement was to be made with all of the stakeholders to seek to extend that temporary accommodation to allow for the identification of a site for a permanent test centre in the area. You could not make it up. The RSA is effectively trolling my hometown. A young holder of a provisional driving licence living in the Drogheda area will be waiting eight months for a test in Navan and five for a test in Dundalk. The RSA since then has done absolutely nothing to identify a site for a permanent driving test centre in Ireland's largest town of Drogheda. The RSA is not being held to account. It is an organisation that feels it is accountable to nobody. The Minister of State has a job to make sure that changes and to ensure that the RSA does what it promised me, other Deputies and the people of Drogheda a long time ago, that it would develop a permanent driving test centre for Ireland's largest town.

Deputy Eoghan Kenny

I will be sharing time with Deputy Kelly.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú)

There seems to a fair amount of time if the Deputy wants to leave it until the end.

Deputy Eoghan Kenny

Thank you. I welcome the motion from Sinn Féin. If I follow up on a query from a parent or from someone my own age about a delay in getting an appointment for a test, the RSA tells me to contact different test centres around the country.

Asking a person from Cork to come to Dublin or even further afield to do their test is absolute madness. There is no quality there when it comes to trying to get those tests and those appointments fulfilled as quickly as possible. I will give the example of Evan, who is around my age. He applied for his driving test on 6 December and was given a date of 16 June. That is unbelievable.

The Minister of State, particularly in his new position, will be well aware that much of the Cork North Central constituency is rural. For people in the likes of Watergrasshill, Carrignavar, Whitechurch, Mourneabbey, Burnfort, Rahan or wherever they may be, access to public transport is not forthcoming. Therefore, people rely on the car to get to and from work, college or school. One parent I met gets up early in the morning, travels to Munster Technological University every morning, drops the child off there and has to go to her own job. She then has to go and collect the child in the evening before going home. That is extraordinary. The child is waiting for a driving test. Waiting times of up to six or seven months are absolutely outrageous.

I again welcome this important motion from Sinn Féin.

Deputy Mark Wall

I thank Sinn Féin for bringing forward this motion. I wish the Minister of State well in his new role.

There has been a great deal of talk about the totally unacceptable statistic of 174 of our citizens dying on the roads, about young drivers and about allowing drivers to learn the rules of the road.

In the time available, I want to bring the Minister of State's attention something going on in my hometown of Athy this week. It is a road safety week being run by Richard Daly, the principal of Athy College, and by Barry Keatley of Virtual Driving Hub. They are bringing virtual driving hubs into the schools to allow students to experience various driving conditions on the road at a very young age. Everyone from first year up to sixth year gets the chance to drive a vehicle, albeit in a virtual environment. It is the education that they receive from this that I wanted to bring to the Minister of State's attention tonight because I believe this is where we need to start off. We need to spread what is happening in Athy college this week right around all the secondary schools throughout the country. We need to add road safety to the curriculum. They are not just looking at driving but are also looking at pedestrian safety and cycling safety. As part of this motion, I ask the Minister of State to look at education in our secondary schools. Something like the virtual driving that has been going on this week at Athy College would benefit many people and, most importantly, those who need it most, namely the students as they set out on their driving experience journey. Having listened to the principal, the feedback that I have heard is that they are actually experiencing something that they never thought they would. The experience of the dangers that they are getting from virtual driving will stand to them as they move forward on their driving career. It is something the Minister of State might look at.

Deputy Alan Kelly

I offer the Minister of State my best wishes. I specifically ask him to do one thing. Will he ask the RSA if it assesses the pass-fail rates in test centres and of testers? I am talking about an issue that is raised in my office all the time, including last week and the week before - 30 or 40 times - whereby one tester has a massive fail rate. How is that possible? I have tried to raise the matter but have got nowhere. I have heard of numerous people whose cars failed the test three times. When they drove up the road to Birr, their vehicles passed the test. An 18-year-old woman who paid €85 ended up crying because she could not even get the test carried out because the tester to whom I refer, who often does not allow people to do the test on the basis of the state of the vehicle, said the brake light was a slightly faded because of wattage when the indicator was on. This person worked nine and a half hours to earn the money to be able to have a test for which she paid €85 carried out but it did not proceed. People from Nenagh and surrounding areas continually contact my office asking why one tester fails way more vehicles than anyone else. Will the Minister of State ask the RSA to provide pass-fail rates by test centre and anonymised pass fail-rates by tester in order that it can identify anomalies and look into them? Obviously, there is an issue because when this person was off work, the pass rates amazingly came up to the national average.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

I will be sharing time with my two colleagues. I thank Deputy Daly and Sinn Féin for bringing forward this very important motion, which will have an impact on many lives, particularly those of young people.

We often make things particularly difficult for young people. This is one instance of our doing so. I acknowledge that both Ministers are new to their roles and that the Government is not going to oppose the motion. However, we need to see action because while the Minister of State is new to the role, his party has held the position he now holds for a number of years.

In March 2024, the Department of Transport promised that the waiting times would be down to the ten-week maximum allowable under the service level agreement with the RSA. This was repeated in April by the Minister, Deputy Chambers, but clearly that did not happen. In September, the Government promised that the sanctioning of an additional 70 permanent posts would solve the problem and that the ten-week limit would be in as soon as possible. I welcome the 70 posts and that they were permanent which was really important. However, at this stage the Minister needs to call the RSA in to ask it what has happened to those 70 posts sanctioned at the start of September. My understanding is that the recruitment process closed in October, but the relevant staff are still not in place. I was told today by the RSA that the first tranche of those recruited will begin training in March. Therefore, it will still be many more months before they are in place and can start working to bring that waiting time down. I was also told that they will be prioritising Dublin and Cork in the first tranche. The places that need to be prioritised are those that need the testers and that have the largest waiting lists. That is not just Dublin and Cork. I will return to this matter later.

It is really important that the Minister of State bring the RSA in and get it to answer questions as to how it can take so long for it to undertake a recruitment process and get people trained into these roles. The waiting lists are not acceptable and there has been no improvement. When the 70 positions were sanctioned in September, there were 155 testers across the country. Currently, there are 151. This means that the number has dropped. That can also be seen in the waiting lists which have gone up by 10,000 people in those same months. The waiting time has gone from an average of 18 weeks to 22 weeks, so things are going backwards. The 70 positions that were sanctioned have not made any difference as of yet.

I want to specifically talk about my county of Wicklow. While the country averages 22 weeks, in Wicklow it is 26, which is incredibly high. It is an awfully long time to expect people to wait for their driving test. I went digging for information on this and the CSO website is a font of information when it comes to the waiting lists. There are 999 people in Wicklow who are waiting for driving tests and there is, according to the website, one tester in the county. There are about three or four counties that have one tester and Wicklow is one of them. When we compare that with five testers in Wexford, we can see why there is a 26-week waiting list.

It is clear that there are major problems particularly in some centres. When the RSA is putting the first tranche of recruited testers in place, it should focus on counties such as Wicklow that only have one tester. Clearly if that person gets sick or takes leave, it shuts the whole system down. That one tester - or even if there are two or three testers in a centre - must be under enormous stress knowing they are responsible for doing the test for every person coming into that test centre.

I do not believe it is healthy or good for those workers to be put in that position. Will the Minister of State look at that?

It is important to have sanctions and accountability in respect of the RSA, particularly as there have been problems for years. Solutions were provided but they have not worked. The RSA needs to face some level of accountability. While it is not a statutory ten-week limit, there is a service level agreement. If, in contractual terms, the RSA does not meet that service agreement with the Department, what is the penalty? Is there any penalty? If possible, will the Minister of State provide a response in this regard?

In regard to the NCT, there are problems with waiting lists. If the company involved does not meet the relevant timeframe requirement, it should provide tests for free.

If there was such a financial penalty for the RSA, we would see it focus and make sure it had enough staff to conduct essential work. Will the Minister of State look at the possibility whereby if the ten- or 12-week waiting time is exceeded and the RSA does not provide an applicant with a driving test, that applicant should be allowed to sit the test free of charge? That would make the RSA put in place a system that is workable and that meets the needs of communities across the country.

Deputy Aidan Farrelly

I thank colleagues in Sinn Féin for tabling this motion. I will keep my contribution short.

We are having this debate in the context of a conversation about carbon emissions and climate change. We are in the midst of a necessarily modal shift. Some 60% of greenhouse has emissions relate to passenger cars. When I hear interesting figures to the effect that 250,000 tests were carried out last year, that is welcome from the perspective of Kildare North. However, it indicates that there is more traffic congestion. We need to look at this in the round. That is important.

In Ireland, the culture of car dependency is rooted in the idea that our public transport network fails to meet our needs. There is ample research on the reasons we rely on cars. Those reasons relate to the independence, autonomy and flexibility associated with being able to move as and when we deem fit, whether for work or for education. Notwithstanding the idea that there will always be a cohort of people who require to drive in order to get to work and other places, we should not ignore the fact that what we need to do - and what the Government needs to really accelerate its action in respect of - is embrace the idea of a public transport network for the State that is efficient and fit for purpose. I am particularly drawn to the idea of successive Governments making a mess of Metrolink. The Dart+ schemes are leaving low-hanging fruit behind. We have buses continuously running at capacity, yet bus routes are being cancelled because they are not financially viable. In tandem with the meritable idea of lowering the waiting lists for driving tests, we should also see maximum investment and attention given to boosting our public transport system. When we do those things in tandem, we will see real success.

In County Kildare, we have one test centre. We have one of the youngest and fastest-growing populations in the country. I guarantee that even if we double the staff cohort in Kildare, we will still see a significant increase in the waiting time of six months. I encourage those in the RSA who are charged with making decisions to focus on Kildare. In light of our fast-growing population, our need will continue to grow when it comes to reducing waiting times. My colleague Deputy Whitmore put an interesting proposition forward whereby if a person has been waiting ten weeks for a test, he or she should receive a Leap card with €100 on it to cover the cost of public transport in Ireland while he or she waits for that test. This would be an incentive for people in Kildare who are waiting six months for tests.

Deputy Jen Cummins

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach Gníomhach agus le Sinn Féin as an rún seo. Earlier today, I went onto the RSA website and input the location for my nearest test centre at Charlestown in Dublin. If I applied for my driving test today, I would be able to sit it in the week beginning 4 August. That is 23 weeks away. I did not clog up the system because I did my test in 1994. Many contributors have said that this is the worst it has ever been. I remember stories from when I was growing up. We always slagged my mother because she was one of a group of people in the 1960s who did not have to sit the test. They got the licence for free. We made a joke of the fact that she was not a great driver, but it is not a laughing matter. We do not want to have people on the roads who are not taking tests or driving in a suitable way. I know that now, but at the time I was a child and it was incredibly funny. In the 1970s, another backlog was cleared. Now, there are many thousands of people waiting.

Everybody who has spoken has been contacted by constituents. I was contacted by constituents in Dublin South Central who say that the waiting times are unacceptable. People are waiting to go to college, to work and go about their daily business. It is very expensive to take driving lessons and to be insured on a car, if a person has one. It is sometimes difficult to get time to practice driving. To then be obliged to wait a long time is prohibitive for many people.

Public transport is so important, particularly in light of people's reliance on it. There is a lot of waiting about for buses. A group in Inchicore-Bluebell called Connecting Communities is fighting to keep the area's bus service. It connects people. The group carried out a survey which showed that 63% of the people who responded do not own cars. There is huge reliance on public transport. They are engaged in a fight in respect of the 58 bus route, which is going to replace three other routes. Buses on this route will only run once per hour and will not bring passengers to Thomas Street, a famous street in Dublin 8 to which people travel for many social activities, markets, religious services and medical appointments. I have been working with Joan Collins, a former TD for the area, and members of the community to try to ensure that we have a meeting with the NTA. We have not heard back from the NTA yet. We look forward to hearing from it.

Not everybody drives, but if people do drive it is really important that they are not waiting for weeks on end for things to happen. I am happy that the Government is going to support this motion. I thank Sinn Féin for bringing it forward.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

Gabhaim mo bhuíochas le Sinn Féin as an rún seo a chur os comhair na Dála. Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach agus tá mé buíoch dóibh go bhfuil an deis tugtha dúinn páirt a ghlacadh sa díospóireacht.

On the previous occasion, I wished the Minister of State the best. On this occasion, I note that he and the Minister are not amending the motion. That is good. He might confirm whether the motion, which is quite basic, is going to be implemented. Very little is being requested. It is the most practical motion I have seen. It calls on the Government to acknowledge its responsibility to ensure that when demand for public services increase, this must be matched by additional resources to meet demand, instruct the Minister for Transport to take immediate action, end the over-reliance on hiring temporary driving test instructors – a temporary over-reliance that affects possibly every public service - conduct an urgent review of the capacity of the RSA and address the shortfall in driving test centres across the country. It is welcome that the motion is not being amended. Perhaps the Minister of State will confirm whether it is going to be implemented and the timeframe within which this will be done.

Various figures were referred to by previous speakers, including that 72,414 people have been waiting longer than necessary. They are in limbo. I echo Deputy Farrelly’s comments. I wish we were talking about an integrated public transport system. We have failed utterly to create such a system in as many places as we should, so we push people to drive. Obviously, they need to sit driving tests, and then this is what happens.

There is very little I can say about the motion, so I am going to use this opportunity to refer to two matters. The second is a local matter. John Connolly, recently elected on behalf of Fianna Fáil, raised the issue in question, and I thank him for that. I refer to the temporary moving of a driving test centre in Galway city out to Knocknacarra because of development commitments. There is no certainty that it will come back. Unusually, as I understand it, the city and county councillors are of one view, namely that the driving test centre needs to be in the area where it was previously. Different sites were looked at and were not deemed acceptable, such as a business park that seemed unable to accommodate the centre because it was outside of what was allowed, and so on. We need a guarantee from the authority that this centre that is temporarily with a "how long is a piece of string" period of 12 to 18 months or longer until it comes back.

That just would not be acceptable for Galway.

Tá gá le ceadúnas tiomána a bheith ag tiománaithe, ach chomh maith leis sin, tá gá go mbeidh daoine sábháilte ar an mbóthar i mbailte agus in áiteanna a bhfuil daoine ina gcónaí iontu. Is cuid den tsábháilteacht é go mbeadh na tiománaithe in ann tiomáint agus ceadúnas a bheith acu. Tá taobh eile den scéal, agus sin é go bhfuil freagracht ar na córais áitiúla scéimeanna a chur ar siúl. Táim ag smaoineamh ar Bhearna agus ar an Spidéal i gContae na Gaillimhe. Tá easpa áiseanna chun a chinntiú go bhfuil daoine in ann an bóthar a thrasnú. Níl rud chomh bunúsach le bóthar a thrasnú sábháilte sna bailte sin agus i mbailte beaga eile ar fud an chontae. Fad is atá fadhbanna á gcruthú againn anseo ó thaobh liosta fada, ag an am céanna tá fadhbanna eile maidir le cúrsaí sábháilteachta agus easpa acmhainní ag dul i dtreo na gcóras áitiúil chun na scéimeanna cuí agus na scéimeanna tábhachtacha a chur ar fáil. Cúpla lá ó shin, bhí cruinniú agam i m'oifig maidir leis an ábhar seo agus an easpa airgid - airgead suarach i ndáiríre - chun na bailte a dhéanamh níos sábháilte.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I thank Sinn Féin and Deputy Daly for bringing this motion forward, which we are happy to support.

I heard somebody say Tallaght was the worst in terms of the waiting list. I was reported in the middle of last year that Dún Laoghaire was the worst, so we are competing for that accolade. Certainly, waiting times for tests and resits in Dún Laoghaire are shockingly bad. They have not improved, as I took the trouble to look through emails I received in recent years, and what is evident from them is that nothing has improved for quite some time. One constituent wrote to me, and this is an interesting overlap of other failures by the Government, and indeed, by a Minister who has moved from housing to transport. In November 2023, a constituent wrote:

My housemates and I have recently received a no-fault eviction notice. I have had no luck finding alternative arrangements in Dublin, so come December 31st, at the age of 29, I will have to move in with my grandmother in Tipperary and commute to work. I will need to commute to work daily, and for that I will need - from Tipperary to Dún Laoghaire - my full driver's licence rather than a provisional. However, the wait times are abhorrent. I am currently on the waiting list and it is estimated that I will only receive my invitation to book a slot for the test in September of next year.

From November to the following September. is quite incredible. Nothing has changed, however. Another constituent wrote to me earlier this month:

I originally applied for my driving test in June 2024, with the expectation based on official guidance that I would be able to sit the test within ten weeks. However, my waiting time has continuously been pushed back. First, I was informed I would receive an invitation to book my test in October, which then got delayed to January. Now I have been told I must wait until April 28th just to select a date, which likely will be scheduled for late May or early June. If all goes well, it will have been an entire year since I registered - far from the promised ten-week turnaround outlined by the Minister for Transport.

Another constituent who wrote to me on 22 February put it very well and very succinctly:

I am currently on a waiting list of 39+ weeks for my first-time driving test. That is nine months: a full human gestation period.

That is well put. The answer of course, is very basic, which is to recruit enough people to do the testing. I have to wonder, given the fact that the Government has been misleading the public about its recruitment strategy in the health service, telling the public and this House repeatedly that it is trying to recruit people but is finding it difficult to recruit them, and then I discover when talking to health workers that the health service is not trying to recruit them at all because there is a thing called pay in numbers, which means the Government is telling different sections of the health service that they are not allowed recruit people when they need them. I have to wonder whether it is just the same here in something as basic as testing people to drive so that they can get their licence when often their jobs or critical parts of their existence depend on it. It is pretty pathetic and the Government should implement this motion.

Deputy Seamus Healy

I thank Sinn Féin for bringing forward this motion, which is very practical and reasonable.

We should all say that we would like to have an integrated public transport system across the country. However, we do not, and I have not seen see any great move on the Government's part or even previous Governments to do that. If someone is a young person from a rural area, it is particularly problematic to have a situation where he or she might be waiting up to 40 weeks for a driving test. To take Clonmel as an example, if a person is employed in one of the industries in Clonmel such as Abbott Vascular, Boston Scientific, Bulmers or Medite, or if a person is working in the county council or in Tipperary University Hospital, and that person is from Ardfinnan, Ballyporeen, Clogheen, Burncourt, Ballingarry, Killenaule or Moyglass, he or she has to drive to work. There is no alternative. There is no public transport, and there is certainly no public transport if a person is on shift in any of those industries. It is very important for young people, particularly in rural areas, to be in a position to get a driving test and a driver's licence in reasonable times. Again, if a person is attending the ETB further education courses or the Technological University of the Shannon in Clonmel and he or she is from any of the areas I outlined, he or she is going to have to drive. There is no public transport. Again, this is particularly problematic for young people.

Waiting times are anything from 22 to 40 weeks. That is unacceptable and unsustainable. There are two test centres in south Tipperary - Clonmel and Tipperary town. Clonmel has double the ten-week maximum statutory limit at nearly 20 weeks. Tipperary town is slightly better at 17 weeks, but again, this is particularly problematic for young people. It drives up the cost of insurance, the cost of getting to work and the cost of getting mobile in a car. It can cost up to €3,000 to get to a point where a person has a full driver's licence. That is obviously unacceptable.

The motion before us, as I said, is reasonable and practical. There is currently a backlog of more than 72,000 tests, which is a 60% increase on 2022. In 2024, that backlog increased by more than 20,000. I am not aware of any test centre that is meeting the ten-week statutory limit. I wonder whether the RSA, which is responsible for the service, has the ability or the capacity to mend the system, put in place what would be reasonable and to meet the existing legal requirements.

It is quite obvious the increased demand for driving tests has to be met with increased resources by way of funding and staffing. We have a situation where currently there are 205 permanent posts. In December last year, there were 151 active posts. We obviously need additional permanent driving testers. I stress the word "permanent". We also need additional centres. A number of centres, both permanent and temporary, have been closed over the years and they need to be reopened. We need at least one more testing centre in Carrick-on-Suir in the east of County Tipperary. It is necessary to ensure the RSA is responsible for the service and that it puts a plan in place to ensure it meets the ten-week statutory limit. This has repercussions for people right across the country, especially for young people who live in rural areas and have no option other than to drive to the local town or city for employment or education.

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

This is taxpayer's money. Now have a delay of up to six months in places for young people to get their driving test. We have people who are following the rules that were legislated for. They do their theory test, get their 12 lessons and then they have to wait six months to get on the road. That comes back to being the Government's problem. The Government should be responsible for the six-month delay for a driving test. That means there has to be accountability.

Let us look at fuel prices at the moment, which it is said, will soar up to €2 per litre shortly. The Government is taking €1 per litre of that but there is no accountability for the tax the Government takes. There is no accountability for the failure of the RSA to deliver driving tests on time, yet we have people all over Ireland trying to get to work or college, and there is no transport because of someone's failure. The same people are failing all the time and there is no accountability. They keep their jobs. How can the Government create anything to go forward if it cannot even correct the problems of the past? Accountability is what it comes down to. They are not only letting us down; they are letting the Government down. When will the fist come down and say: "We want you to deliver. If you cannot deliver, get out of the position you are in"? I have said this more than once today, there is no accountability for anyone who cannot deliver. All I can guarantee is that the Government will take excess taxes from everyone even though it cannot deliver. I ask the Minister of State to stand up and make them accountable; if they cannot deliver move them and the Government should subsidise the people who are waiting for tests.

Deputy Ken O'Flynn

Like many who told the stories around the House, I too have constituents come to me continually telling me they cannot get driving tests. Others tell me they drive their sons or daughters to university, which not only inconveniences their lives, but affects them financially, in the sense of how they get to work and plan their day. In addition, an issue that must be mentioned in this debate, which I do not think anyone has mentioned, is that in the past year, 6,016 people did not show up for their driving tests. There is something radically wrong with that as well. That has to be penalised and addressed. In Spain, it takes 12 weeks to get a driving test; in Wales, it takes 13 weeks; in France it takes an average of 12 weeks. However, here we are now being told of averages of up to 30 weeks across Dublin.

The Minister of State is familiar with Cork in the same way as I am. We see that the public transport has failed. Approximately 60% of my constituency, Cork North Central, is rural, with little or no bus or other services available. In the cities where buses are running, they do not run on time. We are lucky if they show up at all.

We are talking about infrastructure, roads and road safety. Many Members have mentioned road safety, but we are not developing the infrastructure around road safety. Where is the Mallow distributor road? Where is the northern ring road? Where is the northern distributor road? Where is the Cork to Limerick motorway? They have not been delivered. Driver safety has been discussed. Members have mentioned the number of young people in accidents. If the Government does not build the proper infrastructure for the population - the Government uses the excuse of population over and over again - it is not addressing the population problems that need to be addressed. The Minister of State is aware of that.

Deputy Michael Collins

In August 2024, a headline in one of the newspapers stated that the longest waiting time for a driving test was 22 weeks. However, six months later, 22 weeks is now likely the shortest waiting time. During the Thirty-third Dáil, I spoke 11 times about the lengthy waiting times for driving tests. Now, in the Thirty-fourth Dáil, we are making no progress. The solution is clear. We need more testers in the centres working extended hours to clear the backlog.

I have several constituents facing significant delays. I know a young woman from west Cork who applied on 22 August 2024. She has been told she might receive an invitation to her test in April 2025. That is an astonishing eight-month wait, just for an invitation, which may be further delayed. This is causing immense strain on her family. This is unfair because she is a hardworking, progressive, young woman who wants to go to college and do a bit of work and get on with life. This Government has failed her miserably. The high cost of insurance for those without a full driving licence is also an issue. A young man, also from west Cork, is the sole carer for his mother. He applied in December and has been told that he might get an invitation in April 2025, which is also likely to be delayed. Another young man applied on 6 September 2024. He was supposed to receive an invitation in February 2025, but it is now February 2025 and he has yet to receive it. His father is seriously ill with cancer and he is the only driver in the family responsible for taking his father to hospital and doctor's appointments.

Adding further insult to injury, a Labour Party TD today suggested that drivers should take a theory test every time they renew their licences. These refresher courses, proposed to occur every ten years, would only add more pressure to an already strained system. It beggars belief that anyone could be so out of touch with their constituents that they would come up with that and think it a good idea. We need practical solutions, not additional burdens. The focus should be on increasing the number of testers and reducing waiting times to ensure our constituents can obtain their driving licences in a timely manner. If we want to talk about education, let us educate our young people. We should make sure it is in the curriculum going forward. We have the Bantry Driving Academy and there is probably none better in the country. The kids should be taken there. They are taken to France, Spain and across the world for skiing and rightly so. They are taken for swimming lessons, but no one cares about teaching the basics of how to drive a car and how to pass a theory test. It should be added to the school curriculum and they should not be able to leave school until they have passed it. If that will not be done, we are going nowhere. We are going backwards instead of ahead and these young people deserve that.

We have little public transport and we are fighting to keep what we have. We might have won the battle about the bus from Goleen this evening and I appreciate that if it is the case, but the bottom line is that we need to look at the condition of our roads. They are the real reasons for the accidents. I was in Ballinascarthy on Sunday. The road was flooded. The rivers on the roadside flooded. The TII will give orders from the top. Pencil pushers from Dublin tell people to cut their speed on national roads, basically to pull up the car and go at cycling pace all the way to west Cork. They should cut out the nonsense. Let them get off their butts and get the hell down to see the condition of the roads in my constituency. They are worse than appalling.

They are worse than third world roads. The rivers are bursting their banks out onto the road and there is no sign of a TII person to come out and see the condition of the roads on the main motorway into west Cork. I am telling the Minister of State that this is what has to be done. We have to call out the pencil pushers in this country and we have to deliver for our people who drive on the roads with great difficulty every day of their lives because of the condition of them.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Navan has the longest waiting times in the country at the moment. Learners are waiting up to 33 weeks just to receive an appointment. Waits for retests can mean anything up to six or seven months. Is that acceptable to the Minister of State? It is certainly not acceptable to the thousands of young people in my county who are desperate for a driver's licence so they can go about their business. As of April last year, there were 5,305 individuals on that waiting list. It was an incredibly high figure and the reason is quite obvious. There is a shortage of testers able to actually go through those tests to reduce the numbers. In the whole of Meath there are three testers currently. This is an incredible figure. I would like it if the Minister of State could maybe pay less attention to his notes and a bit more to the debate that is actually happening here, if that is alright.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

Tá mé ag éisteacht.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Three testers can only-----

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

Tá mé ag éisteacht.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Excuse me, please.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

Tá mé ag éisteacht.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Do not be getting annoyed now.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

Labhair mise-----

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

The Minister of State is a good man to heckle but it is good to listen too. This is why you have two ears and one mouth-----

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú)

Lean ar aghaidh.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

-----so you can listen to twice as much as you speak.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

Ná bí ag magadh now.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

If the Department only employs three testers for the whole of Meath this means that at best each tester can get through 40 tests a week and 120 is a total that the county can achieve. If they are doing it at a rate of 120 a week it will take 40 weeks just to get through the existing waiting list never mind the number of people who will join that waiting list in the interim. That is an incredible statistic.

I believe the Government has caused some of the difficulty here. First of all, like many aspects of modern society the delivery of services is grinding to a halt. Why? It is because this Government will not pay proper pay and terms and conditions to workers within the public sector. If the Government will not pay people, and especially when there are extremely high rents, then people are not going to be able to do the job and they will leave the country and do the job elsewhere. Also, the Government has gotten rid of temporary testers in recent times, which is a good policy in the long term but it has had a destabilising effect in the short term. It has actually reduced the number of people working in the area as well. Another element is when a number of testers are pulled out of testing sites and they are moved on to other testing sites because perhaps they have competencies in another type of vehicle testing. This is causing instability within the testing centres as well, which is slowing the process down too. The Government has a system for cancellations whereby it invites young people to look at the websites to see what cancellations are happening on the testing. I know many young people who are on that website or the app all the time waiting for a cancellation so they can get in on it and still they cannot get a test for themselves. It is an incredible situation. This is having a significant effect on people's lives and especially young people. Many young people in Meath are living in areas where there is little or no public transport. The vast majority of people in County Meath - some 80,000 people - travel to work by car. We have been crying out for the rail line to be built between Navan and Dublin for at least 20 years and the Minister of State's Government has still not provided that.

On one level the Government is refusing to deliver decent public transport to people and on the other level the Government is making it really difficult for people to get into their cars and drive to work. We have seen the increase in tolls and we have see the increase in excise on fuel. This is not just a philosophical question and it is not a theoretical question. These are real people trying to have real lives, trying to get to work, trying to study in college, and trying to live their lives. Currently Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael in Government are damaging these people's lives because the Government will not provide the testers and will not provide the public transport.

Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty

Driver test waiting times have become a major issue across the country. From speaking to people in different parts of the country we know there are huge differences depending on ones location. The Government has itself acknowledged since last year the need for significant restructuring of the RSA and its €90 million budget but there is a lot of work to be done. There are 72,000 learner drivers awaiting a test as of February this year. This is a rise of 10,000 over the last three months alone.

The Minister for Transport, Deputy O'Brien, referred to a 22-week wait for a test, which last April was 15 weeks. We need a lot done. We need the implementation of the service level agreement to ten weeks as set out under section 28 the Road Safety Authority Act, with consequences if they cannot deliver, as others have said. We need more driver testers, with permanent positions especially, and we need the promised reorganisation of the RSA to address the backlog in driver tests, including its own mandate, resourcing and programme of work. We need to address the shortfall in the driver test centres across the country. We need more of them and spread more evenly. We need to instruct the OPW and the RSA to urgently identify the suitable sites to fill the gaps.

I welcome that one can no longer keep applying for a test and driving on the learner permit indefinitely. Now a person can renew his or her learner permit twice and after that he or she must apply for a driver test or have unsuccessfully taken the test in the previous two years. This is all very welcome but more needs to be done.

I will focus now on what others have said about transport. In rural areas - but also in urban areas - when people are trying to get to college or to work the public transport system not fit for purpose a lot of the time. As someone with a green background I would like to be able to say that yes we have the public transport system that delivers, but we know that BusConnects is not fit for purpose. We need to have alternatives for people. We need to have measures that would encourage people to be able to get get their driver permit as early as possible.

In my remaining seconds I wish to make a point about novice drivers. Once a person has got their test it does not end there. My rural colleagues have mentioned anecdotally that roads are the issue. In urban areas with good roads I have seen people with N plates speed and break the traffic lights. They think that now they have their test they can do whatever they like. Maybe we need refresher courses and tie that into the insurance costs.

Minister of State at the Department of Transport (Deputy Jerry Buttimer)

Gabhaim mo bhuíochas leis an Teachta Ó Dálaigh as an rún seo a chur os ár gcomhair agus gabhaim buíochas freisin le gach Ball a thacaigh agus a labhair ar an tairiscint seo. I commend Deputy Daly on tabling the motion. Members will be aware the Government is not opposing the motion. All of us on all sides of the House share the frustration and annoyance around the difficulties being experienced by people in our constituencies, neighbours, family members and friends. I thank Members for their contributions to the debate.

I am conscious of the disparity in test delays. Deputy Daly will appreciate my next comment. My late mother was a recipient of the Sylvester Barrett licensing, which we heard of earlier. It is unacceptable that we have a situation where people are experiencing inordinate delays. We cannot go back to those days where we handed out driver's licences.

The depth of feeling on this issue is one I understand fully. I have people in my own office about it every day of the week. All of us are in agreement that we need to deliver decisively on the issue of service provision and on the long-standing issue of making a reliable high-quality driver testing service available in our State regardless of where someone lives.

Not only is achieving the ten-week target time important for the learner driver's experience of the service, it is also a vital component of delivering on our road safety strategy and the ambition to halve road deaths and serious injuries this decade. Ensuring that all of our drivers are well trained and equipped for the challenges of modern driving makes us all feel safer on the roads.

As the Minister outlined in his opening remarks, the population of our country has increased significantly. This has placed additional demand on the driver testing service with a record number of applications received last year. While the operation of the services is the statutory remit of the RSA, the Government has sought to support them in meeting this demand through a number of staffing sanctions in recent years, most recently the 70 additional driver testers sanctioned on a permanent basis last autumn. There is a sanctioned headcount of 200 today. The doubling of the staffing sanction in just over two years reflects our commitment to addressing this issue. Prior to this, as Members will be aware, the RSA requested sanction for 75 testers on a temporary basis, which was approved by the then Minister in March 2023.

As already outlined by the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, this temporary sanction was the correct decision at the time, ensuring that permanent staffing decisions were not taken while the service was experiencing a post-pandemic distortion and that capacity to deal with immediate demand was created while a longer term assessment of capacity requirements was conducted. Under this temporary sanction, significant progress was made between August 2023 and April 2024, with wait times halving from 30 weeks to 15 weeks.

Progress that was made under the previous sanction before the loss of testing capacity gives us confidence and hope that the additional capacity now entering the service on a permanent basis will deliver improved waiting times for everyone on a sustained basis going forward, which is the key point. The RSA is confident that the permanent positions now on offer will attract and retain more testers than was the case for the temporary sanction. That the sanction will remain in place permanently will allow the RSA to fill vacancies as they arise, and in response to demand, up to the ceiling of 200 on an ongoing basis.

I hope Members will be impressed by the fact that interest in the recent competition was quite high, with 1,400 people applying at the initial stage and over 300 making it through to the final driving assessment stage. I am informed by the RSA that it intends to commence training of the first tranche of new recruits in early March, with onboarding to continue with additional trainees over the coming months. I hope and expect that we will see sustained progress towards the ten-week wait time target in the months ahead. The RSA has been required to put a plan in place to achieve that target as soon as possible.

The additional capacity will help address the systemic mismatch between supply and demand that has developed in recent years as our population has grown. However, it is also important to acknowledge the steps taken by the RSA and efforts by individual testers to mitigate the impact on people to the greatest extent possible while the current recruitment campaign is ongoing. There was extensive voluntary working of overtime by driver testers last year to help meet demand during 2024, including at weekends, and this is continuing. I thank and commend them. To support this, the RSA ran an incentivisation programme for overtime during 2024 and a similar offering is under consideration for 2025.

Deputy O'Flynn raised the issue of no-shows. The RSA has introduced IT system improvements to maximise the number of test slots utilised and reduce the amount of tests lost to cancellations and no-shows. Once a person has been invited to book a test, he or she can now book slots released at short notice following a cancellation on the MyRoadSafety portal. Such slots are added every day. The new system has seen the overall percentage of testing slots utilised increase from 95% to over 98%.

Deputies may wish to know that the RSA has transparently published monthly information on the driver testing service on the CSO website, including the breakdown of waiting times and distribution of testing capacity by test centre.

Members made reference to the RSA. There is a final element of the Opposition motion that I would like to address, namely, the call for the Government to conduct an urgent review of the capacity of the RSA to deliver the driver testing service. I commend Ms Anne Graham, the new RSA chairperson, and wish her well. As Members are aware, such a review was commissioned at the beginning of 2024 and presented to the Government last November. The core recommendation emerging from that review was that the RSA be split into two separate and independent bodies responsible for, respectively, the provision of customer services, such as driver testing, and the delivery of wider public interest work, such as road safety campaigns and education. This reform will take time to deliver but detailed work on how it will be implemented is under way and will be presented to the Government by the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, at the appropriate juncture. In the long term, this radical restructuring of the organisation will help ensure a singular focus on delivering high-quality public services within the responsible body while allowing the public interest body to focus on public interest work. This is why the motion is important. The restructuring will mark a transformation in how road safety interventions have been delivered over the past decade and can make a significant contribution to the achievement of our 2030 targets under the road safety strategy in the coming years.

The Government recognises the significant impact that long waiting times for drive tests are having on people across our country, particularly those residing in rural areas, as we have heard in the debate, where public transport may be limited. It is important, however, that we not compromise testing standards and that we instead ensure that recruitment delivers sufficient testing capacity of an appropriate standard to support safe road use. As the current recruitment campaign is well advanced, additional capacity will enter the system in the coming months and we expect to see wait times progressively reduce towards the target level of at least ten weeks. As the Minister outlined, seeing tangible progress on this issue, which is impacting on all of our constituents, is a foremost priority for him and the Department.

I thank the Deputy Daly for tabling this motion and for the contribution of all Members during the debate. Mar fhocal scoir, as a practising constituency public representative, I understand fully the annoyance and frustration at delays and the consequences of that. As his party's Members know, the Government is not opposing this motion. Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach Gníomhach.

Deputy Fionntán Ó Súilleabháin

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Cathaoirleach Gníomhach. More than 8,000 learner drivers are languishing on waiting lists in Wicklow and Wexford. Some have been waiting for more than eight months, which is unacceptable. A young person could be fleeced by exorbitant insurance costs of €2,000 to €3,000, which is frustrating.

Then comes another shock, that is, trying to navigate and drive safely on County Wexford's rural road network, which is disintegrating before our eyes, especially after the recent bad weather. After the Celtic tiger years, Governments reduced roads funding dramatically to County Wexford, leaving a €67 million hole in the county's rural roads budget. Even the 2021 storm works, including bridge repairs, are only being completed now.

Across the State, an average of 15% of roads are in poor condition. In Wexford, however, this figure rockets up to 28%, which is almost double. Judging by technical surveys, roads in Wexford have been left behind for 30 years. This information comes from official road surveys, engineers reports and the National Oversight and Audit Commission, NOAC, report.

A technical analysis by Wexford County Council estimated that €194 million was needed to address the crisis in County Wexford's rural roads, presenting a significant safety issue. The local authority simply cannot bridge this gap with its own resources. It is not fair on motorists, who are having their cars wrecked on such terrible roads. It is a serious road safety issue, whether one is a young learner or an experienced driver, having to zigzag across rural roads to avoid hitting huge potholes, some akin to craters one could almost wash a child, and broken verges while meeting oncoming traffic. One can see how this would be such a danger.

In a recent parliamentary question, I called on the Minister to start allocating funding to counties based on road condition rather than, as at present, road length. The response I received was rather ridiculous, essentially telling me that it would disincentivise county councils from repairing bad roads if the Government were to allocate funding based on road condition. This is nonsensical and unacceptable to everybody and it is something I will not let rest in the Chamber. As with the driver licence issue, this is a significant matter for the Road Safety Authority.

I call on the Minister of State to immediately intervene with emergency funding for County Wexford to deal with the disintegrating road conditions. No other country in Europe has to put up with this and no other county in Ireland would put up with it, so why should we in Wexford? I need this to be addressed immediately as an emergency safety issue.

Deputy Mairéad Farrell

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Comhghairdeas leat as do phost nua, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

I want to reiterate what has been said in the Chamber. Many people, especially young people, are waiting ridiculously long periods of time to access a driver test. In Galway, for example, the waiting list is over 3,000. That is 3,000 people who are waiting to get a driver test so that they can commute for work. A considerable issue I have encountered is that of commuting for housing. People are now waiting for more than seven months even through we are told it should be a ten-week period. As the Minister of State knows, there are no HAP properties available in Galway city within the scheme's limits, which means that many people have to move out to more rural areas to access housing. I met a homeless woman this week who had been waiting six months to get a driver test, which would enable her to go further out to try to access housing.

There are young people who are studying and who need a car to commute who are waiting on their driving test. One woman contacted me today to say she was supposed to have it in February. It was pushed back to March and she expects it to be pushed back even further while at the same time she is not able to commute by herself to university or to access third level education easily because, as we know, in the west of Ireland there are huge issues with access to public transport. At the same time, she is having to pay extra for insurance.

Another man told me he was waiting for three months. He noticed he had not heard anything back with regard to his driving test and then he discovered it had absolutely no record of him ever applying for a driving test. That was only the first in a litany of issues he had accessing that driving test. We hear an awful lot from Government that it will sort it out. It is high time it is sorted out and let this motion be a first step to doing so.

Deputy Seán Crowe

The difficulty people right across the State have in accessing a driving test, particularly those who rely on the test centre in Tallaght, is something I have raised in this Chamber not just for years, but over several Dáileanna. I remember raising the fact the waiting list in Tallaght had passed the 5,000 mark and urging that immediate action be taken before things completely spiralled out of control. That was with the then Minister, Shane Ross, back in 2020. I remember raising the matter with the then Minister, Eamon Ryan, when the number passed 10,000, and here we are now and there are over 18,000 people waiting in Tallaght. That is a population the size of Clonmel or Malahide, all waiting on a test in one centre.

Will I be raising this at Easter, when it reaches 20,000? It is a fair question. I want answers on when the Government will clear this. When I asked Eamon Ryan, who talked about new testers, he could not tell me whether he would be able to deal with the backlog. Clearly, there is a need for an additional test centre in south Dublin. Dún Laoghaire was the second highest when Eamon Ryan was in office.

The population has exploded, as we have heard, in the last 20 years but there are even new towns since the last centre was opened. As the population grows, the provision of centres must grow with it, otherwise there will be bottlenecks and that is just not common sense.

Additional testers and centres are welcome, but that only allows us to tread water. We have had temporary testers in the past and that only slowed the rising numbers. It did not do anything to break the backlog. We should encourage the use of public transport as the first option but that is not always a practical solution as we have heard tonight. If people want to get a job in Intel, for instance, it might take a half an hour drive on a good day but it takes about two and a half hours to get from Tallaght as there is no direct route.

That is the problem right across the board. We have to stop this discrimination against drivers. The Minister of State needs to give us answers as to how he is going to solve this when he gets a chance.

Deputy Pa Daly

I thank all the contributors who spoke tonight and I acknowledge the Government will not oppose the motion but it is unfortunate it is not the first time this issue has been raised. I agree, obviously, when the Government says the figures are unacceptable but it must be deeply frustrating for anybody listening in or watching tonight, including any of the 72,000 people on the waiting lists, the people waiting six to eight months for a driving test, the thousands of people in my county of Kerry, the people who are paying exorbitant, over the top insurance costs and the people paying huge amounts for extra driving tests while they are waiting for the test.

It must be deeply frustrating for returning immigrants, immigrants returning from the United States, for example, where they have a full driving licence and who are awaiting a licence for work, so they can take up employment here. Their licences are not recognised here. All the times Government members have gone over there for St. Patrick's Day, can they not sort this small thing out with some sort of agreement with the United States? It must be deeply frustrating for people who cannot access employment, such as employment in crucial front-line services, such as paramedics, ambulance drivers and so on, and for people who are trying to access courses they require in order to take up employment.

It must be frustrating for people to hear some of the excuses given tonight. Covid was mentioned, I think, by the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, along with things like the post-pandemic era, public health measures, social distancing and the pandemic era. It must be frustrating to hear that from the Minister when numbers have increased by 60% since 2022, when the restrictions ended.

It must also be frustrating to hear the Minister say it is not the Government's problem and the RSA has not dealt with the situation. Those opposite are in government and they are the ones who should have been sorting it out over the past number of years. It reminds me of the delays in security in Dublin Airport where staff were laid off. It became so difficult to hire full-time staff. In essence, that is what we are calling on the Government to do here.

There was frustration on our side hearing the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, asking for solutions and saying there was a problem with the solutions offered. We are asking for more full-time instructors, for more resources to be put in and for the Government to take this matter seriously once and for all.

Question put and agreed to.