Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 4 Mar 2025

Vol. 1064 No. 1

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler)

I move:

Tuesday's business shall be Statements on Policing and Community Safety (to adjourn after 2 hours).

Tuesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Guaranteeing Right to Education in Irish to All, selected by Sinn Féin.

Wednesday's business shall be:

- Statements on Policing and Community Safety (resumed) (not to exceed 1 hour and 32 minutes)

- Statements on the Irish Language to mark Seachtain na Gaeilge (to be taken no earlier than 3.45 p.m. and to conclude within 2 hours and 25 minutes)

- Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill 2023 (Committee and remaining Stages) (to be taken no earlier than 5 p.m. and to adjourn at 8.31 p.m. or after 2 hours and 30 minutes, whichever is the later)

Wednesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Addressing Government Waste and Oversight in Public Expenditure, selected by the Independent Technical Group.

Thursday's business shall be Statements on International Women's Day (not to exceed 2 hours and 25 minutes).

Proposed Arrangements for this week’s business:

In relation to Tuesday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the extent that private members’ business may be taken earlier than 6.12 p.m. and shall, in any event be taken on the adjournment of the Statements on Policing and Community Safety, or where those statements conclude within the available time, on the conclusion thereof, with consequential effect on the commencement times for the items following in the ordinary routine of business, namely, oral Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for Transport, and topical issues, and on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil; and

2. the proceedings on the Statements on Policing and Community Safety shall be interrupted and stand adjourned after 2 hours and the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:

(i) the arrangements for the statements shall be in accordance with those contained in the table immediately below (to be read across, not down);

(ii) any speaking slots which are not reached may be taken on Wednesday in accordance with the agreed sequence; and

(iii) members may share time.

	Gov	SF	Lab	Gov	SF
Mins	35	25	15	15	5
	SD	Gov	SF	IPTG	Gov
Mins	15	15	5	12	15
	SF	ITG	Gov	SF	NP/G
Mins	5	12	15	5	8

In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach pursuant to Standing Order 47(1) shall not be taken, and the SOS pursuant to Standing Order 25(1) shall commence at the time when Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach would normally be taken, with consequential effect on the commencement time for Government business; and

(ii) the weekly division time may be taken earlier than 8.45 p.m., and shall in any event be taken on the adjournment of proceedings on the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill 2023, or where those proceedings conclude within the allotted time, on the conclusion thereof, with consequential effect on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil;

2. the resumed Statements on Policing and Community Safety shall not exceed 1 hour and 32 minutes and the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:

(i) the speaking slots from Tuesday’s arrangements for the statements shall be continued from the point at which they were adjourned;

(ii) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time;

3. the proceedings on the Statements on the Irish Language to mark Seachtain na Gaeilge shall be taken either at 3.45 p.m. or on the conclusion of the Statements on Policing and Community Safety, whichever is the later, and shall not exceed 2 hours and 25 minutes, and the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:

(i) the arrangements for the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the arrangements contained in the table immediately below (to be read across, not down);

(ii) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time; and

	Gov	SF	Lab	Gov	SF
Mins	25	15	10	10	3
	SD	Gov	SF	IPTG	Gov
Mins	10	10	3	9	10
	SF	ITG	Gov	SF	NP/G
Mins	3	9	10	3	5

4. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill 2023 shall be taken either at 5 p.m. or on the conclusion of the Statements on the Irish Language to mark Seachtain na Gaeilge, whichever is the later, and shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned either at 8.31 p.m. or after 2 hours and 30 minutes, whichever is the later.

In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that:

1. (i) the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(I) no motion for a Committee report pursuant to Standing Order 111 or private member's Bill pursuant to Standing Order 169 shall be taken; and

(II) topical issues may be taken earlier than 7.24 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of the Statements on International Women’s Day; and

(ii) the Dáil shall adjourn on the conclusion of topical issues until 2 p.m. on Wednesday 19th March, 2025; and

2. the Statements on International Women’s Day shall not exceed 2 hours and 25 minutes and the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:

(i) the arrangements for the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the arrangements contained in the table immediately below (to be read across, not down);

(ii) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time.

	Gov	SF	Lab	Gov	SF
Mins	25	15	10	10	3
	SD	Gov	SF	IPTG	Gov
Mins	10	10	3	9	10
	SF	ITG	Gov	SF	NP/G
Mins	3	9	10	3	5

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the proposed arrangements for the week's business agreed to?

Deputy Pearse Doherty

Not agreed.

An Ceann Comhairle

We will take contributions in party order. Deputy Doherty, as briefly as possible.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

At the end of January the Government gave its word on the floor of the Dáil that it would work with the Opposition to find a resolution to the impasse relating to the status of the Michael Lowry group of Independent TDs that would be acceptable to both Government and Opposition. It has gone back on its word now and has proposed to put a motion before the Dáil that puts Michael Lowry and his group in the centre of Opposition, giving them Opposition rights such as Leaders' Questions and others. It does that at a time when Taoiseach himself will reduce Taoiseach's Questions by half to only one day per week instead of two days per week. We need to find a resolution to this. Everybody knows - the dogs in the street know - that Michael Lowry is a Government TD. It is as simple as that, and they need to deal with that fact.

Deputy Paul McAuliffe

We have.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

Will the Taoiseach do what the combined Opposition leaders have asked of him? They have written to him and asked him to sit down to let us find a solution to this that is sensible, practical and common sense. The Government needs to show a bit of common sense on this issue.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

Leave up the nonsense so we can carry on with the work of the House.

Deputy Duncan Smith

On that issue, the Labour Party and other groups in the Opposition have submitted a private notice question under Standing Order 44 to ask the Taoiseach to explain the actions of the Government Chief Whip at the Dáil reform meeting last Wednesday, actions which were incredible for those who were there. I have just found out in the past two minutes that this request has been rejected. I am upset by that, and I think others will be. I would like an explanation as to why it was rejected.

There is also the matter of our request for the international security situation to be discussed in the Dáil. We made a request as a party for it. It is not on the Order of Business.

We need an urgent discussion on that as well.

Deputy Gary Gannon

I watched the Taoiseach on "The Late Late Show" on Friday evening when, in his rush to defend the unjustifiable, he made a comparison between the deal he struck behind closed doors with Michael Lowry and the deal made between one of his predecessors and Tony Gregory in 1982. I will be very clear: the Gregory deal of 1982 was published. It was there for all to see. The public knew exactly what was going on. The Taoiseach should not compare it to the shoddy little deals he has made with Michael Lowry.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Hear, hear.

Deputy Gary Gannon

We know what happens with Michael Lowry behind closed doors because we have reams and reams of a tribunal report, a report that uses words such as "insidious" and "profoundly corrupt". Do you know what word it does not use? It does not say "altruistic". There is nothing about making deals and expecting nothing in return. The Taoiseach must step back from the precipice because we are heading into uncharted waters as regards how we conduct business in this Parliament and he is bringing us there.

Deputy Paul Murphy

What the Taoiseach is attempting to do with this stroke with the Lowry group of Independents is an authoritarian manoeuvre.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Paul Murphy

It is.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Paul Murphy

It might not be comfortable for Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and their supporters in the Lowry group to hear that truth but this is about diminishing the capacity of the Opposition to hold the Government to account.

Deputy Paul McAuliffe

The Opposition has not lost one slot.

Deputy Paul Murphy

Something that has not got much coverage in this-----

(Interruptions).

Deputy Paul Murphy

Government Members can try to shout me down but the Taoiseach and the Government propose to halve the number of Taoiseach's questions in any given week.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

Hear, hear.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Hear, hear.

Deputy Paul Murphy

At the same time as he pretends to be standing up for the rights of backbenchers, the Taoiseach is halving the opportunities that exist for backbenchers and others. Why is he doing that? It is because he wants to play this game of allowing people to pretend they are in the Opposition when they are in the Government. It will be resisted.

Deputy Michael Collins

The Irish Natura and Hill Farmers Association, the ICSA and the Irish Rural Association are today protesting about GAEC 2 at Agriculture House. If this is not stopped, it will mean more regulations acting against Irish farmers. They need an urgent meeting with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Instead of giving these genuine farmers debate time today, I am asking the Taoiseach to meet with Opposition leaders to talk about the speaking row in this Dáil. Last week, Dáil reform became Dáil dictation. After four hours of what we felt to be progress, this document of destruction was waved at us. After some confusion, a vote was called. If we are honest, that was always on the cards that night. On the one hand, the Taoiseach wants to give the Lowry group eight minutes of extra time on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and six minutes on Thursdays for priority questions. He says that they and Government TDs have a right to speak. On the other hand, in the same document, it is proposed to change Standing Order 48 so that Government and Opposition questions to the Taoiseach will take place for only 45 minutes a week instead of twice a week. Can we meet with the Taoiseach at the end of this day to discuss this matter and to try to bring it to a proper conclusion?

The Taoiseach

Deputy Doherty is not interested in a resolution. In a strange way, he is enjoying this and will keep it going for as long as he possibly can. I have got many letters from the leaders of the Opposition parties. I recall the night I was meant to be elected Taoiseach. We saw what happened then. I remember ringing Deputy Bacik, who had written a letter and told RTÉ, Virgin Media and everybody else that she was desperately seeking a meeting with the leaders of the Government parties. It transpired that Deputy Bacik was out on "Prime Time". When we then rang Deputy McDonald, she was at home.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Taoiseach should deal with the issues.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

Deal with the issue.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

Meanwhile, the Tánaiste and I were waiting above in the Sycamore room. Where were the leaders of the Opposition parties?

(Interruptions).

Deputy Ivana Bacik

On a point of order, we indicated that we would come back.

The Taoiseach

They were nowhere to be seen. They dispatched a letter, told the media they had done so and then went off doing what they were going to do anyway.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

This has happened on more than one occasion. The last time I got a phone call from Deputy Bacik, I was at a meeting in Brussels.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

These tales are so interesting.

The Taoiseach

She asked whether we could meet. A half an hour later, on the 9 o'clock news, I heard that Deputy Bacik had written to the Taoiseach seeking an urgent meeting.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

This is completely out of order.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

This kind of play-acting keeps going on.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

The Taoiseach had rejected my original proposal.

The Taoiseach

To be fair, Deputy Gannon said we are in uncharted waters and we are. We are in uncharted waters across the world, where the most profound and grave challenges are facing people. There are terrible wars in Ukraine and the Middle East.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

This is a diversion.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

There is a terrible war in Sudan and there are very significant economic headwinds coming. Let us be frank; the situation is very serious.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

So why are you doing this?

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

It is very uncertain and very uncharted.

With respect to the Chair, eight minutes on a Wednesday-----

A Deputy

For your friend.

(Interruptions).

A Deputy

For Michael Lowry.

The Taoiseach

-----in addition to what was already there and eight minutes on a Thursday, pales into insignificance-----

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Remember little Maddie.

The Taoiseach

-----with what we are facing collectively as a country.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

It is time to cop on here, and have a bit of common sense and proportionality.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Paul McAuliffe

We have a mandate too.

The Taoiseach

The presentation from the Opposition is very disproportionate.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the proposed arrangements agreed to?

Deputies

Not agreed.

Question put: "That the proposed arrangements for this week's business be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 93; Níl, 66; Staon, 0.

Tá

• Aird, William.
• Ardagh, Catherine.
• Boland, Grace.
• Brabazon, Tom.
• Brennan, Brian.
• Brennan, Shay.
• Brophy, Colm.
• Browne, James.
• Burke, Colm.
• Burke, Peter.
• Butler, Mary.
• Butterly, Paula.
• Buttimer, Jerry.
• Byrne, Malcolm.
• Byrne, Thomas.
• Cahill, Michael.
• Callaghan, Catherine.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Canney, Seán.
• Carrigy, Micheál.
• Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
• Chambers, Jack.
• Cleere, Peter 'Chap'.
• Clendennen, John.
• Collins, Niall.
• Connolly, John.
• Cooney, Joe.
• Crowe, Cathal.
• Cummins, John.
• Currie, Emer.
• Daly, Martin.
• Dempsey, Aisling.
• Devlin, Cormac.
• Dillon, Alan.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Dooley, Timmy.
• Feighan, Frankie.
• Fleming, Seán.
• Foley, Norma.
• Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
• Geoghegan, James.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Harkin, Marian.
• Healy-Rae, Danny.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Heneghan, Barry.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Higgins, Emer.
• Keogh, Keira.
• Lahart, John.
• Lawless, James.
• Lowry, Michael.
• Martin, Micheál.
• Maxwell, David.
• McAuliffe, Paul.
• McCarthy, Noel.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McCormack, Tony.
• McEntee, Helen.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• McGrath, Séamus.
• McGreehan, Erin.
• McGuinness, John.
• Moran, Kevin Boxer.
• Moynihan, Aindrias.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Moynihan, Shane.
• Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
• Murphy, Michael.
• Naughton, Hildegarde.
• Neville, Joe.
• O'Brien, Darragh.
• O'Callaghan, Jim.
• O'Connell, Maeve.
• O'Connor, James.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Donovan, Patrick.
• O'Meara, Ryan.
• O'Shea, John Paul.
• O'Sullivan, Christopher.
• O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
• Ó Cearúil, Naoise.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• Ó Muirí, Naoise.
• Richmond, Neale.
• Roche, Peter.
• Scanlon, Eamon.
• Smyth, Niamh.
• Timmins, Edward.
• Toole, Gillian.
• Troy, Robert.
• Ward, Barry.

Níl

• Ahern, Ciarán.
• Bacik, Ivana.
• Bennett, Cathy.
• Brady, John.
• Buckley, Pat.
• Byrne, Joanna.
• Carthy, Matt.
• Clarke, Sorca.
• Collins, Michael.
• Connolly, Catherine.
• Conway-Walsh, Rose.
• Coppinger, Ruth.
• Cronin, Réada.
• Cullinane, David.
• Cummins, Jen.
• Daly, Pa.
• Devine, Máire.
• Doherty, Pearse.
• Donnelly, Paul.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Farrelly, Aidan.
• Farrell, Mairéad.
• Fitzmaurice, Michael.
• Gannon, Gary.
• Gibney, Sinéad.
• Gogarty, Paul Nicholas.
• Graves, Ann.
• Guirke, Johnny.
• Hayes, Eoin.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Hearne, Rory.
• Kelly, Alan.
• Kenny, Eoghan.
• Kenny, Martin.
• Kerrane, Claire.
• Lawlor, George.
• Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
• McGettigan, Donna.
• McGuinness, Conor D.
• Mitchell, Denise.
• Murphy, Paul.
• Nash, Ged.
• Newsome Drennan, Natasha.
• Ní Raghallaigh, Shónagh.
• O'Callaghan, Cian.
• O'Donoghue, Richard.
• O'Donoghue, Robert.
• O'Flynn, Ken.
• O'Gorman, Roderic.
• O'Hara, Louis.
• O'Reilly, Louise.
• O'Rourke, Darren.
• Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
• Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• Quinlivan, Maurice.
• Rice, Pádraig.
• Sheehan, Conor.
• Sherlock, Marie.
• Smith, Duncan.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tóibín, Peadar.
• Wall, Mark.
• Ward, Charles.
• Ward, Mark.
• Whitmore, Jennifer.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Mary Butler and Emer Currie; Níl, Deputies Pádraig Mac Lochlainn and Duncan Smith.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Doherty. I ask Deputies to stick to their time and to consider other Members.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

Little Angels School is a school in Donegal that caters for children with moderate, severe and profound learning disabilities. It has a new school that has not even been opened yet. There is a new school because the old one was not fit for purpose, but amazingly the new school is too small for the existing pupils. There are not enough classes in the new school and that is without even talking about the additional needs that are there in the county. On Sunday, my colleagues and I met a number of the families. Nine families have been in direct contact with me. These families have been told by the SENO that their child has to be at this school, but there is no space in the school. This is absolutely appalling. It is devastating for these parents and families who are battling every day. Will the Taoiseach take a personal interest in this? We need all the stakeholders around the table.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

We need temporary accommodation on site for September and we need a long-term solution, namely, additional capacity in that school for all children in Donegal.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. The Little Angels School is a multidenominational school catering to pupils with moderate, severe and profound learning disabilities aged up to 18 years. It is my understanding a new state-of-the-art school building is nearing completion and is due to open in the coming weeks. The new building will offer a range of specialist accommodation including designated classrooms, therapy rooms, quiet rooms, a nurse's room and soft rooms. Concerns have been raised regarding the capacity of the new building, with a number of children on a waiting list to attend from September. I am informed the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, the Department of Education and the NCSE are engaging with the school and families on the issue. The Minister of State has been informed the school is considering converting two rooms in the new school into classrooms which will provide additional capacity.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

The Department of Education is engaging with the school on this reconfiguration. The Minister of State has asked the Department officials whether another request from the school to continue to use its former building, which is owned by the HSE, can be considered and is awaiting an urgent update.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I raised with the Taoiseach last week my concern and that of my party about Government proposals to dismantle the triple lock. I emphasise again we in the Labour Party would oppose any attempt to dismantle or undermine the triple lock. Given President Trump's appalling attempts to humiliate Ukraine's President Zelenskyy, which we saw last Friday, it is all the more important now we stand in solidarity with Ukraine but also that we reaffirm our commitment to the international rules-based order, multilateralism and the principles of the United Nations that Trump seems intent on tearing up. With that in mind, I am concerned, when the Taoiseach says dismantling the triple lock will not compromise Irish neutrality, about what exactly he is proposing. We understand the legislation will replace the requirement for UN sanction with a test-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy. An Taoiseach to respond.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

-----that the mission must be in keeping with the spirit of the UN Charter, but if that is the case, why rule out the need for UN sanction?

The Taoiseach

Fundamentally, it will be within the spirit of the UN Charter, but we do not want countries like Russia in particular vetoing or having the ultimate decision on whether Ireland should send its military on a peacekeeping mission.

It is very simple.

Deputy Paul Murphy

Have you read the UN charter?

The Taoiseach

Given the behaviour of Russia over a decade, and in particular in the past three years, it is incomprehensible that we would allow Russia to have a veto.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

What about-----

The Taoiseach

That is the view. Other aspects of the existing legislation need to change. The figure of 12 should be brought up to 50. There are other missions like the drug narcotics international group, of which we are a member. We cannot send a ship to track down narcotics because of the existing legislation.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

It is time for the Taoiseach to take his head out of the sand when it comes to climate change and climate action. This Government and the previous Government did not do enough in regard to climate action. There are more warnings today from the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council and the Climate Change Advisory Council regarding this, that we could face between €8 billion and €26 billion in fines if we do not meet our targets. Yet, the climate action plan will only result in an emissions reduction of 29% if every single element of it is implemented. That does not meet the 51% reduction we have to see. The Taoiseach is engaging in a form of climate denial because, in the face of all of the evidence to the contrary, he still seems to believe we will meet our targets. Will he tell me whether he is going to update the climate action plan 2025 so that it will meet our 51% in reductions target? What will he do immediately to make sure that happens?

The Taoiseach

The climate action plan will be published in the next number of weeks. The Government is absolutely committed to addressing the issues presented by climate change. We have made significant progress over the past four years. I have referenced the massive population increase in Ireland since 1990, more than 1.5 million people. The economy has grown very strongly since then. The number of cars has increased by 1 million. In other words, despite all of the increased activity which ordinarily gives rise to higher emissions, we have managed to reduce emissions, in particular in recent years.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

We have imported 12 times more electricity-----

The Taoiseach

The Government is very committed to doing that and the big story will be our success and the pace at which we can deliver offshore renewables and solar power, which will be the big game changers.

Deputy Brian Stanley

The programme for Government sets out to improve mental health services. The SOSAD, Save our Sons and Daughters, organisation provides vital services and is running out of cash. It has made representations to try to move forward. It provides counselling, support and mental health services. It only has enough money to keep going for a number of weeks. In 2024, it provided services for 1,114 clients. In County Laois, it supported 229 people, with 2,891 hours of services.

This is a vital service. It takes referrals from a number of bodies, including the HSE. It is made up mainly of volunteers and has only 16 full-time staff nationally. It is trying to get a service level agreement in place. The Minister for Health is here today. Perhaps she will address this issue. The organisation needs €60,000 a month to keep going for the next five months or so. That is the same cost as the bicycle shed in this complex. The more than €300,000 spent on it would keep SOSAD going.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy

Deputy Brian Stanley

It has had to cut some services.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy.

Deputy Brian Stanley

We know our mental health services have gaps and deficiencies.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach to respond, please.

Deputy Brian Stanley

SOSAD is filling the gaps.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy. You are way over your time.

Deputy Brian Stanley

Will the Taoiseach prioritise it and commit to providing the money-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, you are way over your time, please. I call the Taoiseach.

Deputy Brian Stanley

-----and service level agreement that the SOSAD organisation needs?

The Taoiseach

The Minister of State, Deputy Mary Butler, met SOSAD before Christmas. My understanding is that there has been ongoing engagement between SOSAD and the HSE mental health services. That will continue. Engagement is continuing with the HSE in Louth-Meath and SOSAD on the steps required to complete a funding application. It is doing very good work. As I said, the Minister met the organisation to outline the steps that need to be taken for any potential funding application under the section 39 process.

As the Deputy knows, as per any negotiation between the HSE and a charity organisation, information such as audited accounts, annual reports, governance arrangements and a board of management are required so that the HSE can undertake due diligence as part of its consideration. SOSAD is now working to provide all of that information to the HSE. It is to be hoped we can get this sorted.

Deputy Brian Stanley

Time and money is running out.

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

I welcome the pupils and teachers from the CBS in Charleville who made the journey here today, especially Maddie, coming here on her sixth birthday, and my nephew Shane, who attends the CBS.

I want to ask the Taoiseach about the defective blocks. He mentioned €2.2 billion is going to be spent on this. When the 5% tax on concrete products was brought in, it was €100 per sq. ft. It is now €200 per sq. ft. Will the Taoiseach look at the people from CBS in the Visitors Gallery, those who may want to build a house in the future, and tell them about how we now have inflation from €100 to €200 per sq. ft and all the Government is doing is taxing us out of existence so that the same people who want to rebuild or build a house will not be able to afford it? The people who have existing houses now have tiers 1, 2, 3 and 4, which means engineers now want to lift the roof off the house, take down some of the walls and rebuild others. The cost of getting some engineers to do it means it does not make economic sense.

The Taoiseach

I certainly welcome CBS Charleville to Dáil Éireann. I hope they have a fruitful, enjoyable and enlightening day. I wish Maddie a very happy birthday. I presume it is because of her birthday that everyone is here to enjoy themselves.

In respect of the defective blocks scheme, the State was anxious to recover some revenue, given the extraordinary outlay involved in the defective concrete blocks scheme. The industry bears some responsibility for what transpired - not everyone in the industry but certain players in the industry do. The State felt there was a necessity to get some back. There are issues, however, and we will continue to keep this scheme under review.

Deputy John Lahart

I am raising the issue of public transport again. This Government and the previous Government committed heretofore unknown and unseen resources into public transport. What I want to raise may initially sound like the failure of a bus route but it points to a larger systems failure which both the Government and the Minister for Transport, Deputy O'Brien, need to look at. This is from a constituent working in the city who has no other option but to travel to work by bus, which happens to be the 15B service in Rathfarnham. She said that today alone was a pure example of the dreadful service the public must face. This constituent arrived at the bus stop at 7.20 a.m. to discover the 7.25 a.m. bus was cancelled. The 7.39 a.m. bus then arrived full and the following two buses showed up on the app as being cancelled, with the next bus due at 8.15 a.m. Given there was no way she would make it into work for 9 a.m. by risking waiting for the 8.15 a.m., this woman was forced to take and pay for a taxi. This is quite typical and not exceptional. I would like the Taoiseach to take this on board with the Minister for Transport to see how we can address this apparent systems failure.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Lahart for bringing home the reality of our bus services for consumers and users. We are endeavouring to encourage people to use our buses but this is a truly shocking story. I will bring this to the attention of the Minister. We have recently heard quite a number of cases like this.

Deputy Catherine Callaghan

In advance of the new school year starting in September, many parents of sixth class pupils are faced with the dilemma of how they will get their child to their new secondary school when there is no school bus route available to them. I am particularly concerned about students in Ballon, Rathvilly and Clonegal, who have all made representations to me in recent weeks. I welcome the measure in the programme for Government to expand the school transport service to include 100,000 additional students by 2030, as well as expanding eligibility for more students, particularly those in rural areas, can get to school on a school bus. Will the Taoiseach please provide an answer to the parents of Ballon, Rathvilly and Clonegal on the status of the planned phasing out of the nearest school rule for the school transport scheme, and the timeline for the abolition of the rule so pupils in Ballon, Rathvilly and Clonegal do not have to spend the summer worrying about how their hard-working parents will get them to school and themselves to work?

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising an important issue regarding school transport. I will certainly talk to the Minister regarding the specific case and bus route the Deputy raised. There are changes under way in respect of the school transport scheme. I do not have the exact timelines but I will talk to the Minister and revert back to the Deputy on this.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

I wish to raise issues with search and rescue operations. As the Taoiseach will be aware, Bristow Ireland Limited won the contract and is in the process of transitioning and taking over operations. The Department of Transport has said it will not allow risks to be taken in a rush to meet contractual deadlines. It further stated it recognises the need to revise transition dates to ensure overall safety and that this will be done if required.

Concerns have been raised directly with me on the speed of this transition. I do not want to scaremonger and I certainly do not want to get into the details here, as I am sure the Taoiseach does not want to either. Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Transport to please intervene in this matter, get an up-to-date picture and assess whether the deadlines as laid out in the original contract can be met safely for the safety of the crews, staff and all the people they are there to help?

The Taoiseach

I will talk to the Minister in respect of the issue the Deputy has raised and I will ask him to revert back to her with the up-to-date position.

Deputy Aindrias Moynihan

Tá Foras na Gaeilge ag freastal ar phobal na Gaelainne ar fud na tíre agus tá sé ag feidhmiú le maoiniú ón Rialtas anseo ó Dheas agus ón bhFeidhmeannas ó Thuaidh; 75% den mhaoiniú ag teacht ón Rialtas anseo agus 25% ón bhFeidhmeannas ó Thuaidh. Is é sin an leagan amach atá ann de réir Chomhaontú Aoine an Chéasta. Tuigim go bhfuil an Rialtas anseo lánsásta a sciar a chur ar fáil ach go bhfuil buairt ó Thuaidh. Tá an-bhuairt ar phobal na Gaelainne roimh ciorraithe agus sa chás nach mbeadh an foras ábalta feidhmiú gan mhaoiniú. Mar sin, an féidir tacú leis an bhforas agus le pobal na Gaelainne gan teacht salach ar Chomhaontú Aoine an Chéasta nó an féidir plé leis an bhFeidhmeannas ó Thuaidh chun a chinntiú go gcuirfeadh sé a sciar den mhaoiniú ar fáil?

The Taoiseach

Aontaím leis an Teachta. Is féidir linn cabhair agus tacaíocht a thabhairt d'Fhoras na Gaeilge. Tuigim go bhfuil brú airgeadais ar Fhoras na Gaeilge agus fógra tugtha ag an mbord le déanaí go mbeidh air maoiniú a ghearradh ó chuid dá scéimeanna mar bheart éigeandála, agus is cúis díomá é sin don Rialtas. Tá ceist airgeadais Fhoras na Gaeilge pléite ag roinnt cruinnithe le tamall anuas. Bhí cruinniú ag oifigigh Roinn na Gaeltachta ar an 10 Feabhra leis an Roinn pobal ó Thuaidh, le Foras na Gaeilge agus le Gníomhaireacht na hUltaise, áit a pléadh na dúshláin airgeadais atá ag an dá eagraíocht. Bhí cruinniú práinneach ag an Aire Gaeltachta, an Teachta Calleary, le cathaoirleach agus le príomhfheidhmeannach Fhoras na Gaeilge ar an gCéadaoin, an 12 Feabhra, agus mar sin tá an cheist seo á plé go mion ag an Aire agus a chuid oifigigh. Tuigim go raibh cruinniú ag oifigigh Roinn na Gaeltachta freisin le sé cheanneagraíocht Gaeilge agus gur léirigh ceannasaithe na gceanneagraíochtaí sin a n-imní maidir le dúshláin airgeadais an fhorais.

Deputy Grace Boland

Having limited access to childcare options is inhibiting predominantly women from returning to the workplace and their absence is a loss to the economy. The one thing they need for return to the workplace is simply not available to them. Childcare needs vary from family to family and the Government needs to be dynamic and urgently support the delivery of more childcare options, especially in areas like my own constituency of Dublin Fingal West, which is one of the youngest areas in the country and is rapidly growing.

Supporting the childcare sector to plan and project numbers is key to meeting future demands. The programme for Government references resourcing and transforming the supply management unit within the Department of children to become a forward planning and delivery unit. The aim of this unit, which is very welcome, is to identify areas of need, forecast demand and deliver public supply within the childcare sector. While I very much support this idea and appreciate it will take time to implement, what work is the Government doing now to support the childcare sector to recruit, retain and deliver more childcare places?

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Boland for raising this matter. The Government is fully committed to delivering high quality, affordable and accessible childcare for all families. It is interesting to point out that investment in early learning and care in school-age childcare has quadrupled in the past decade, increasing from €260 million in 2015 to €1.37 billion in 2025. The number of enrolments has increased year on year from 2021 right up to 2023 and 2024. In 2025, the Government will allocate approximately €1.37 billion for early learning and care and school-aged childcare. That is a €261 million, or 24%, increase on last year's funding. This will support the universal ECCE programme, benefiting more than 107,000 children; the access and inclusion model, enabling approximately 7,800 children with disabilities to access ECCE and wider early learning centres, ELCs, both during and outside of term time; the national childcare scheme with funding for an additional 7,500 children on average per week; and €14 million more in subsidised hours. There is also much more.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

Anyone interested in the issue will have heard the Taoiseach's previous answer in regard to SOSAD Ireland, which the Minister of State handed to him, ten times over. That reply does not answer the question he was asked. I will ask it again. The question relates to interim funding to keep the doors open on these vital services between now and when SOSAD Ireland can continue to engage in the long-term, sustainable section 39 funding. The question is in regard to the interim funding of in the region of €300,000 that is needed to keep the doors open for the next five months for the organisation. The audiovisual room was packed for its presentation. A number of Deputies from different parties were at the briefing. This is the one question to which we want an answer.

Deputy Mary Butler

As Minister of State with responsibility for mental health, I will respond. I met with members of SOSAD Ireland before the election, when they expressed their concerns about keeping the doors open. I acknowledged that the organisation does a huge amount of very good counselling work in the different regions Deputies represent. There has been constant engagement with SOSAD Ireland following the election and since I have been back in my role. I was disappointed initially that it took quite a while for the HSE to engage with the organisation but that has now been resolved. The main issue I have to raise in regard to funding for any section 39 organisation is that there is a spending code in respect of taxpayers' money. In allocating funding to any organisation under a service level agreement, boxes must be ticked in regard to previous accounts and in respect of clinical and other governance on the part of the organisation. The HSE is not satisfied at the moment that this governance is in place in the case of SOSAD Ireland. However, it is working with the organisation to put that governance in place and to try to secure a service level agreement. I receive updates on a weekly basis.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Minister.

Deputy Mary Butler

I accept the organisation has challenges.

Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty

The Irish people are a generous people. We recognise the need of so many people fleeing persecution and war who come to this country. Long may that continue. People have said to me on the doorsteps that they recognise the fantastic contribution being made by people from various countries around the world in, for example, our healthcare system. However, there is concern about people who are economic migrants using the asylum process, nice people as they may be. I note that the recent midnight plane to Georgia brought 32 of them back to that country. However, this is a drop in the ocean, even if the numbers involved are increasing in percentage terms. We need to be more targeted in terms of work permits. We need South African bus drivers, for example, as they drive on the same side of the road as we do. In that context, there is a commitment in the programme for Government to introduce a new international protection Act in 2026. Why so far away? This is an urgent issue.

The Taoiseach

I will get back to the Deputy with a more specific answer but I surmise that the legislation will be complex. We will see whether we can accelerate the timeline for it. We are a generous people but I concur with the Minister for Justice that the majority who apply for protection are economic migrants. The work permits system has proved to be very effective in terms of targeting and in creating a lot of opportunities for people from the European Union and beyond to work in Ireland. There are huge challenges across the world that are driving the migration situation, including all the wars, conflicts and authoritarian regimes.

Deputy Eoghan Kenny

Will the Taoiseach clarify whether a recruitment freeze has been put in place by the Department of Education in regard to special needs assistant, SNA, provision? I had a conversation with a primary school principal last night in my home town of Mallow in which she informed me that the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, sanctioned 1.83 SNA positions for her school last Tuesday. The next day, the special educational needs organiser, SENO, rang the principal to tell her that a directive from the Department has outlined that all positions will not be filled until at least September 2025. That leaves the school two SNAs short even though those posts have been sanctioned by the NCSE. Will the Taoiseach clarify whether there is a recruitment freeze on SNA provision in the Department of Education?

The Taoiseach

My understanding is that the numbers have grown exponentially. For this school year, the numbers have again increased very significantly in terms of SNAs generally. There are close to 23,500 special needs assistants in our school system right now. These are enormous numbers. The increases have been quite dramatic over the past number of years. I will check in respect of the specifics of the school the Deputy raised.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are out of time but I propose to take Deputies O'Flynn and Gannon, with each having 30 seconds for a question and a response from the Taoiseach.

Deputy Ken O'Flynn

I thank the Ceann Comhairle. According to media reports, the Government will not allocate energy credits this year in the coming budget, thereby ending the cost-of-living supports package. The energy providers are introducing increases of 31 cent per day, according to SSE, or €113 per year. While the Government cites the Ukrainian war as an inflation factor, carbon credits are adding €140 per year to the average gas bill. Many elderly people are facing financial hardship. The planned pension increase this year is €12, while the Government plans to give jobseekers €450. Electricity prices have gone up 19% in the past year, according to The Irish Times, while the price of gas has gone up by 22%.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy.

Deputy Ken O'Flynn

What will the Government do to help senior citizens across this country?

Deputy Gary Gannon

It is nice to see Government Members of all descriptions having their voices heard and their mandate upheld today. I was led to believe that did not happen.

My question to the Taoiseach concerns the funding for his Department's task force for Dublin city centre. It is eight months since it was announced and we are several months into the Government's term. Has the Department identified a funding stream for the task force?

The Taoiseach

Four Government Deputies have spoken out of 11 speakers.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is combined.

The Taoiseach

If people want, we can provide more. We can provide four if that could be facilitated. I appreciate Deputy Gannon's generosity in wanting to share time with Government Deputies. That is kind of in line with Government thinking.

On Deputy O'Flynn's question, we need to review the regulatory framework governing energy prices, particularly in terms of the user base. It will not be easy but the Government is committed to establishing a group to review the legislative framework. Energy prices are high in Ireland relative to those across Europe. There has been an increase in wholesale prices in recent times. Inflation has come down generally, and has come down dramatically from where it was two years ago, and, so, we will not be in a position to sustain the once-off payments this year. We will try to deal with issues through core budgeting by way of pension increases and so on.

On Deputy Gannon's question, I will be having further meetings in respect of funding aspects of the Dublin city task force.