Is it agreed we will take the briefing note as read unless it has changed since previous years? Agreed. I now ask the Minister to proceed.
Diseases of Animals Act 1966: Motion.
I seek the adoption by both Houses of a resolution for the continuation of section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966, as inserted by section 2 of the Diseases of Animals Act 2001.
As committee members are aware, the reasons for the reintroduction of this legislative measure on a yearly basis were outlined last year. It goes back to 2001 when, quite rightly, the Department was obliged to deal with the outbreak of foot and mouth disease. Members will be aware from their briefing notes that section 17A is a specific measure. It provides for my appointment of categories of persons to be authorised officers and confers on them powers to be exercised in cases of reasonable suspicion that an animal disease is or may be present, or that an offence is being or may be committed under the Diseases of Animals Act 1966 or under EU rules.
This measure was introduced previously because of the foot and mouth disease outbreak. However, it is also applicable to the range of other diseases covered by the Act which, significantly, includes avian influenza. This is extremely important, as the threat of avian influenza is real and has increased. We are aware of the presence of the H5N1 virus in wild birds in Greece, Italy, Cyprus, Germany, Slovenia, Austria and France. Consequently, the Department is anxious to retain the powers granted under section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act.
I assume that members will want to ask some questions regarding avian influenza. I ask the joint committee to support this appropriate and extremely important legislative measure. It is equally important that it comes before the Houses of the Oireachtas for periodic review, as it is quite serious legislation. Hence, it must be discussed further every 12 months.
The issue of the general scheme for a proposed animal health Bill has been raised with me. While the Department has been anxious to publish the proposed legislation quite quickly, there are a number of reasons - as I have informed some members personally - as to why it has not proceeded at the anticipated pace. As the proposed legislation will be substantial, we should take the opportunity to ensure that it will be appropriate and a consultation period should be offered. This is why I have not been so vocal in respect of its publication.
I thank members for the opportunity to come before the joint committee and I hope it will adopt the resolutions of both Houses.
While the Fine Gael Party will support this proposal, as in the past I want to express some reservations regarding the powers under section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966. I am disappointed that the legislation will not be revised in the immediate future because it is critically important. I am concerned that insufficient checks and balances are in place in respect of this legislation and the extensive powers it bestows on the Department of Agriculture and Food.
Deputy Upton and I are aware of a video which circulated during the summer regarding the actions of the Department of Agriculture and Food in respect of a facility in the south-east. As the matter is before the courts, I will not ask the Minister to comment on it. However, it gives rise to a number of questions. It is significant that all members have encountered instances where people felt that the heavy hand of the Department of Agriculture was used. It is important to have complete clarity and transparency in respect of such cases. I fully understand that some cases must go before the courts and that prosecutions must be made. However, I will return to this issue seeking answers as soon as the court case in question has concluded. Moreover, I will seek clarity and answers from the Department in respect of any other such instances which I encounter.
I want this point to be noted because an examination of the record of the joint committee's proceedings in which these powers have been addressed during the past three to four years reveals that members have used phrases such as "intimidation", "alarming experiences", "heavy-handed action" and "extensive powers". While everyone accepts the importance of having such powers in place up to a point, it is critically important that staff who go beyond the call of duty regarding section 17A are sanctioned. The Minister may not have figures to hand, if such figures are available, as to whether any individuals within the Department who exceeded the call of duty in respect of the powers under section 17A have been sanctioned. These measures have been renewed on an ongoing basis by this joint committee. What sanctions and protections are in place to ensure fair and balanced treatment of individuals in this regard?
I wish to raise two other issues. First, has there been any progress on an all-island strategy for animal health? The primary concern in my part of the country is in respect of the movement of lambs for slaughter. There are other implications regarding the animal medicine regime on this side of the Border, as compared to what pertains on the other side of the Border. It is important and in everyone's interests to have an all-island approach in this respect. Had an all-island approach been in place at the time, we would have been much more successful in keeping foot and mouth disease out of the country. This must be a priority, in the interests of protecting our country, our livestock and farmers' livelihoods. I am aware that the political institutions north of the Border have been suspended. However, the British Government appears to be interested - as undoubtedly is the Government - in trying to make progress on some of these issues, even in the absence of the statutory institutions.
I wish to raise the issue of avian influenza with the Minister. Specifically, the media has raised concerns regarding the lack of adequate knowledge of, or reporting facilities for, those members of the public who may find dead wildfowl. It is not satisfactory to oblige people to go on a merry-go-round to try to establish who is responsible and to whom such incidents should be reported. It is not satisfactory that the Department of Agriculture and Food's hotline is unmanned at weekends. It should be manned at weekends because that is when most people go walking and is when they will report an encounter with a suspect case. People should not be obliged to contact the Garda, the emergency services and the Health Service Executive. No one appears to know what is going on or to whom this should be reported.
The first step is to ensure that all the emergency services are aware of the hotline number and direct people to it immediately, rather than obliging them to go on the merry-go-round that exists at present. Second, the Department must make a greater effort to make the hotline number available to the public. It should be manned seven days a week and not simply on weekdays. Moreover, the public should be given clear and concise information as to what they should be looking out for in this regard.
I am concerned as to whether all poultry flocks have been registered. While I am in no doubt that all commercial flocks have been registered, I am concerned about domestic flocks. Has the Minister any data as to the potential number of unregistered flocks? What steps are being taken by the Department to ensure that the required information has reached the relevant people? I am aware that the Minister has informed people in the organic sector that they can keep their birds indoors for 12 weeks and still be in compliance with the rules and regulations for organic farming. Hopefully, we would not be obliged to keep flocks indoors for any longer.
What is the situation in respect of the free range poultry sector and can anything be done to help it? Should an order to keep flocks indoors be issued?
I thank the Minister for appearing before the committee to make this presentation. I welcome the continuation of section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966, as inserted by section 2 of the Diseases of Animals Act 2001, because it is important for us to protect our economy and the health of our population, which is largely the intention of the section.
There is always the risk of an over-enthusiastic inspector getting carried away and being slightly heavy-handed. It is important to have some redress if such heavy-handedness comes to the attention of officials so that some unfortunate farmer is not victimised on account of it. The sanctions and penalties are very heavy but I do not have a problem with them. The punishment should fit the crime and if the crime puts our economy, our agriculture or the health of our population at risk, it should be dealt with. The difficulty possibly arises in how one might deal with an inspector who is slightly over-enthusiastic or is seen to victimise somebody and the redress that an individual farmer who is the victim of such activity should be afforded.
I have a few questions in respect of avian influenza. How are people to find out about and access the helpline? One of my constituents discovered a dead swan and gave me a detailed account of how she was unable to contact anyone who could advise her what to do next. She was given the run-around from one branch of the emergency services to the other. For many people, the first port of call would be the local Garda station.
If ordinary people, who do not have insider knowledge, find a dead bird on a Sunday afternoon walk, suspect that it could have died of avian influenza and wish to contact someone, they will not automatically think of a Department like the Department of Agriculture and Food. The first people they are likely to report such an occurrence to are the gardaí. This is a practical difficulty because the gardaí do not appear to know where next to send these people. The next organisation people might think of contacting is the Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. My constituent contacted the Dublin Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals but was again given the run-around. She was finally connected with someone in the Department of Agriculture and Food.
Where can one find the number of the Department's helpline and how are people supposed to find out about it? Should it not be displayed on every bus and billboard in the country? People cannot access the Department's website as they walk along the canal on a Sunday afternoon. I have experienced difficulty in finding the helpline. Is it a freefone number or must people pay for the privilege of getting the information? This point is important for a number of people. People should be encouraged to contact the Department. I appreciate that if the Department receives many vexatious phone calls about dead birds, it slows matters down. However, the nature and scale of the problem is such that it is important that people make reports and somebody in authority makes a judgment as to whether a particular report is worthy of being followed up. The public is being asked for its co-operation but it cannot co-operate if it does not know who to contact.
What is the current view in respect of the vaccination of the poultry flock? Is it something we might be forced to consider in the future? Will it be a choice between vaccinating the flock or demanding that all poultry are kept indoors? Are there concerns about the consequences of a policy of vaccination?
I welcome the Minister to the meeting and support her call for the committee to adopt this motion. Has the Department of Agriculture and Food contacted local authorities across the country? Has the helpline reached local authority level or is it still based centrally in the Department?
What measures have been put in place at ports and airports in respect of people travelling to European countries where avian influenza has unfortunately been detected?
I concur with the previous speakers. It is imperative at this stage that section 17A be continued for a further 12 months. Such a continuation would give officials more powers. It is important if there is a suspicion that certain birds have died of avian influenza that officials have the authority to collect these birds and ensure they are promptly tested.
I was sorry to hear Deputy Naughten's statement that there is a case before the courts arising out of this Act. I was not aware of any such case. Deputy Naughten claimed he had watched a video which showed that officials were not discharging their duties properly.
We must be careful about what we say in respect of this case. The case concerns animal welfare and does not arise out of this legislation.
I apologise, I thought the case arose out of the Act.
I will explain matters but I do not wish Senator Scanlon to get the mistaken impression that this case arises out of this legislation.
I also welcome the Minister to the meeting. I agree with her that section 17A must be continued. I have slightly more confidence in the Department of Agriculture and Food than have other speakers. We witnessed the Department's reaction to the very serious threat posed to this country by foot and mouth disease and how it protected the country. I have the utmost confidence that the Department will react in a similarly strong fashion in respect of the threat posed by avian influenza.
We are informed that, to date, only wild birds have been infected with avian influenza. Thankfully, it has not reached Ireland yet and we hope it never will. I firmly believe that the Department will do what is necessary to protect this country.
Will the Minister make her concluding remarks?
Members may be slightly confused about the nature of section 17A. The section refers specifically to authorised officers and persons whose powers are very specific under the legislation. No member of staff has been reprimanded under this legislation. Most of the cases taken under the legislation have been successful in the courts. The courts have never ruled against the Department.
The case referred to by Deputy Naughten concerns animal welfare and is currently before the courts. The matter can be clarified in the fullness of time because the Department is taking a case against the person in question. Members will appreciate that it can take time to resolve these matters.
I reassure members that this legislation is a special provision which is rarely invoked. The Department must face the Houses of the Oireachtas each year to discuss the implications of this legislation. I am glad to see that we have the support of everyone here in respect of the reasons behind the legislation being made available to me.
The issue of checks and balances may refer to other inspections that take place within the Department, the need for which I am acutely aware. My Department's services have been more than forthcoming in respect of the concerns expressed about the methodologies through which these issues are dealt with. As committee members are practising politicians, they are aware there can be difficulties in that people may not like or appreciate the legislative framework in which they work or that it is the Department's job to look after the health status of animals to take care of Irish and European taxpayers and ensure the health of our population and export markets. It is important that, instead of keeping concerns to themselves, people bring them to the attention of the appropriate authority. If people feel vulnerable, which they do on occasion, their concerns can be dealt with.
I am supportive of the all-island animal health status and recently met with the Northern Ireland authorities on the matter, at which time a number of issues were raised, including avian influenza. Much work is taking place at an official level but, unfortunately, not a political level in Northern Ireland, an option I would prefer as it would be more pragmatic. That said, we will continue to pursue the matter. The Chairman is aware of my view that we must ensure a good working relationship with Northern Ireland, particularly under the auspices of the European Commission vis-à-vis member states. In my part of the world it would be an appropriate and important way of dealing with cross-Border issues.
In case Deputy Naughten loses the run of himself, which would be unlikely given that he comes from County Roscommon-----
I knew I would be accused of that. It is water off a duck's back.
It is a concern that in the context of an all-island strategy, Northern Ireland sometimes makes decisions that can cause difficulties for us in the South. As the committee knows, I have taken a pragmatic approach to the issue of prescription only medicines, or POMs, in that there will be no change until 2007, with a view to trying to obtain exemptions from the European Commission. If the exemptions are not forthcoming, we will examine other ways to afford our farming population opportunities to access medicines.
This is the broad framework of the issue we are discussing, namely, avian influenza. It is important to say Ireland has not been infected by avian flu. When getting up in the morning, one may sometimes believe we are in the middle of an epidemic when, in fact, we are not. Second, the disease has only affected Europe's wild bird population.
The Department put together a strenuous biosecurity policy several months ago. As the committee was informed by Professor Hall, work has been ongoing in respect of the health and pandemic elements since 1999. The policy has evolved in relation to changes taking place in Europe. We are working closely with the Commission at expert level to reflect whatever changes are necessary in Ireland. The expert group met this morning and provides me with advice on our current position. Depending on what might happen in the future, changes may occur.
The telephone number for the helpline is 01 6072512 and the lo-call number is 1890 252 283. Both will be advertised-----
Could the Minister repeat those numbers?
The numbers are 1890 252 283 and 01 6072512. I look forward to the Deputy's first call.
These numbers will be advertised in all available publications. We are co-ordinating with the Garda Síochána and emergency services and advising them they should forward the concerns expressed to them by the public to the appropriate veterinarians via these numbers. We have had a 24 hour on call service for a considerable number of years. If someone telephones a district veterinary office, DVO, and leaves a message, an on call veterinarian will deal with the matter. We will issue a further press release regarding that telephone number to ensure it is available to everyone.
People can appreciate the experience of the foot and mouth disease has been such that, when a free telephone number was made available to call, we received many hoax calls and calls from difficult people, which had nothing to do with the disease. Consequently, we will only use the lo-call and helpline services.
Under the guidance of BirdWatch Ireland, the Department is drawing up a list of the relevant types of birds in the event of people coming across dead birds. I do not want a situation in which the Department is contacted because of every sparrow and starling in Ireland. However, we must be able to give direction to the public, which will be available shortly. The disease currently affects wetland birds and the list based on BirdWatch Ireland's guidance will deal mainly with water fowl.
The issue of vaccinations was discussed at a meeting of the Council last Monday, where there was a difference of views. A decision was made today that France and Holland can pursue vaccination plans. The Commission's legislative measures have been amended and all member states must be notified of the importation of fresh poultry from a vaccinated flock. Ireland has not decided to introduce vaccination as the expert group advises me it is not appropriate at this time.
Vaccination is not necessarily the solution for a number of reasons, such as cost, the methodology of administering the vaccine. It cannot be placed in feed and must be injected. There are 13 million fowl in Ireland, different doses must be given to different species and it may not be totally effective in creating an immunity. As has been said, there could be concerns about marketing. Our plan can change if necessary, but for class A diseases vaccination is not necessarily the most appropriate method. It is a fall-back position. Current expert opinion is that Ireland should not go down the road of vaccination but I will await further expert opinion on the matter.
Ports and airports represent a low to medium risk. All airports contained messages written in a number of languages on posters and members of my Department carry out spot checks. I contacted the airlines to remind them to inform passengers that they should not bring any meat products into the country. When I visited officials from the Department working at Dublin Airport, they indicated that imported meat and poultry products came from outside the European Union. Certain non-national communities had brought products that were totally inappropriate but the matter had been dealt with. The Department has provided additional staff at the airport to deal with the threat. Other measures will be taken in due course, if necessary.
Commercial flock owners have been in contact with the Department. The level of registration of non-commercial flock owners currently stands at 85%. We have placed advertisements in local newspapers and used press releases and local radio stations to communicate our message. Deputies have also provided information, advising people to fill in what is a simple form which seeks the flock owner's name, address, contact telephone number and the type of fowl being kept. We have forwarded basic information to each flock owner. Next week the Department will update stakeholders on the situation. We will seek to keep lines of communication open with poultry flock owners and farming organisations.
Depending on how the situation changes, evolving policy initiatives may be presented. We cannot say for definite that we will not have cases of avian influenza but we are taking the best measures possible to deal with the threat. We support the poultry sector which is worth approximately €150 million. I am aware a number of the Deputies represent constituencies where the sector is very important. Ireland is almost 100% self-sufficient for fresh poultry. We must reiterate, as Commissioner Kyprianou stated, that there is no need to panic and that poultry is safe to eat, if properly cooked. It is difficult to communicate this message because hysteria can make people nervous.
Will the Minister briefly respond to my question on the free range and organic sectors? In what circumstances will Ireland direct that poultry be contained indoors? Is such a measure inevitable?
It is not inevitable as yet. The expert group will continue to advise me on the matter. If there was an occurrence in the United Kingdom, we would have to reconsider this policy. We are in very close contact with the authorities in the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, on the matter. A pragmatic decision would have to be made if there was a case of avian influenza in the United Kingdom. People should prepare in advance of such a decision being taken. We do not expect luxury houses to be built to house poultry but we hope there will be no crossover between wild birds and fowl and domestic birds. Feed should be properly stored to ensure it cannot be accessed by other birds.
On Deputy Naughten's question about free range and organic farming, I raised this matter with the Commissioner. Under Community legislation, poultry is no longer deemed to be free range if it is housed for more than 12 weeks. The Commissioner indicated she would introduce flexibility if matters deteriorated.
Has a risk assessment been carried out? I realise this may be very difficult to do. Is vaccination a matter for the Minister or the Commission? Could we make a decision independently if it became important to do so? Do we have vaccines available if we wished to implement such a measure?
The Centre for Veterinary Epidemiology and Risk Analysis at UCD has made most of the risk assessments. Deputy Upton probably worked in the centre during her time at UCD. I can make a decision on vaccination in consultation with and the permission of the Commission. The decisions taken by the Dutch and the French concerned areas in which there was a specific risk because of the flight path of birds. Every bird in France or the Netherlands will not be vaccinated, rather it is a specific and regionally targeted measure under the auspices of the Commission. If we seek to vaccinate, we will provide the necessary resources but the experts view this as a last resort.
That concludes our consideration of the motion. The joint committee recommends that there should be no further debate on the motion by Dáil Éireann or Seanad Éireann. Is that agreed? Agreed. The clerk has circulated a draft report. Is it agreed to include the commencement time as 4.18 p.m.? Agreed. Is it agreed to include the conclusion time as 5 p.m.? Agreed. Is it agreed to record that Deputies Brady, Naughten, Upton, Hoctor, Wilkinson and Senator Scanlon contributed to the debate? Agreed. Is the report agreed? Agreed.
I thank the Minister and her officials.