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JOINT COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD debate -
Thursday, 3 Jul 2008

WTO Negotiations: Discussion with IFA.

I welcome Mr. Derek Deane, deputy president, Mr. Michael Berkery, general secretary, and Mr. J. J. Kavanagh of the IFA. The IFA requested a meeting to update the committee on the WTO negotiations and the committee is happy to accommodate it.

I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege this privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are also reminded of long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official, by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I understand the president of the IFA cannot be with us today and that Mr. Deane is deputising. I invite him to make his presentation.

Mr. Derek Deane

I thank the Chairman and the committee for this opportunity to address the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and to update it on the WTO negotiations. Monday, 21 July is D-Day for Irish farming and the food industry. As trade ministers from all over the world gather in Geneva our farming industry is at grave risk. Our president, Padraig Walshe, informed the committee of the damage Commissioner Mandelson's WTO offer would do to Irish agriculture when he addressed the committee last March.

At that time, there was a view in Government that this meeting would not take place. Nevertheless, it is taking place, largely due to Mr. Mandelson's persistence. The present state of the European Union's position in the negotiations in Geneva and the proposals made by the WTO agricultural chairman Crawford Falconer on 19 May are the most fundamental threats to the viability of Irish farming, the food industry and employment in rural Ireland in our generation.

Members of the Oireachtas are well aware of the solemn commitment given in June 2003, when a major reform of the Common Agricultural Policy was undertaken by the then Commissioner for Agriculture, Franz Fischler, that this major reform and reorientation of the CAP was the European Union's contribution on agriculture in the WTO Doha development round. The EU Commissioner for Trade, Peter Mandelson, has shamefully and blatantly reneged on this commitment by his predecessor and the Council of Ministers. We are not only facing further reform of the CAP, we are facing the destruction of the European Common Agricultural Policy. The IFA's assessment is that Mr. Mandelson is offering to sell out the beef industry in Ireland to get a deal at any cost. He is engaged in a race to the bottom to the lowest standards of food safety, animal welfare and the environment.

The food industry is the largest Irish-owned manufacturing sector, accounting for more than 50% of exports from Irish owned manufacturing. Ireland's food and drink exports were worth €8.6 billion in 2007, representing 17% of Ireland's net export earnings. Farming, the food industry and the service industries depending on agriculture provide 300,000 jobs, which accounts for 25% of all jobs outside the greater Dublin area.

I was pleased to see the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Brendan Smith, talk up the importance of agriculture in his speech in Portlaoise last Monday, when he stated that farming and the food sector are Ireland's most important indigenous industries. Farming and agriculture have stood the test of time in rural Ireland. We are one bright spot in today's difficult economic environment and we have no intention of relocating to Bangalore.

The WTO deal on the table in Geneva threatens our exports and the 50,000 jobs in rural Ireland. The IFA has calculated the cost to the economy at €4 billion per annum, 50,000 jobs lost in manufacturing and services and a further 50,000 farmers put out of business. Furthermore, the EU set out to achieve a so-called "balanced deal" involving non-agricultural market access and services, as well as agriculture. I challenge anybody in this country, Government, Opposition or business interests, to demonstrate the tangible benefits to Ireland of the proposed deal on the table. They cannot even demonstrate potential gains to offset the certain losses in agriculture and food from the present deal.

The greatest threat to Irish agriculture from the WTO comes from the major cuts in import tariffs. For beef and dairy products, the two major sectors in Ireland which account for 65% of agricultural output, EU import tariffs would be cut by 70%. For other products, including lamb, pigmeat, poultry and cereals, tariffs would be cut by between 55% and 70%. The IFA's assessment is that a 70% cut in beef tariffs would severely depress cattle prices in Ireland to a completely unsustainable level of €2/kg or £0.70/lb.

When account is taken of the increased volume of imports after a WTO agreement, when the EU would become the dumping ground for South American ranchers, the likely price for Irish cattle could be as low as €1.80/kg or £0.64/lb. These prices would not remotely cover the cost of production, resulting in 100,000 cattle farmers being redundant and 1 million suckler cows being slaughtered.

Sensitive product status for beef is not viable. Peter Mandelson is now stating beef will be a sensitive product and a 70% tariff cut will not apply. Sensitive product status would mean 270,000 tonnes to 403,000 tonnes of imports at zero tariff and a 23% cut on the remaining import tariffs. The EU Commission accepts that beef imports will rise by at least 700,000 tonnes. This includes large volumes of prime steak of which Ireland produces 31,000 tonnes per year. New South American imports will be at least ten times Ireland's output of prime steak, wiping out Irish beef exports on European markets. For Ireland, beef and livestock are vital national interests. Ireland is the fourth largest exporter of beef in the world. Beef is three times more important to Ireland than wine is to France.

Butter is the most vulnerable of the main dairy products. Following a 70% tariff cut, the imported price would be 16% below the EU price. This price fall, combined with lower skim milk powder prices as a result of the 70% tariff cut, would reduce the milk price in Ireland to about €0.24/litre, which would have devastating effects on confidence and development in the Irish dairy sector.

The EU already imports 283,000 tonnes of lamb annually, including 228,000 tonnes from New Zealand at zero import tariff, under previous trade agreements. These preferential imports, equivalent to 26% of EU consumption, will be increased further in a new WTO deal, particularly with Australia, which has millions of sheep, coming into the market. In addition, the normal import tariff on lamb would be cut by between 55% and 70%. Oireachtas Members will be aware of the income crisis in the sheep sector in recent years. As regards pigmeat and poultry the import tariff, which is already relatively low, would be cut by between 55% and 65% depending on the product.

To aid economic growth and progress in developing countries, the unilateral agreement by the EU, known as the Everything But Arms deal provides for completely unrestricted imports of all products from the 50 poorest countries in the world. We believe this is an enlightened and liberal strategy to lift the economies and people in the poorest countries, particularly in Africa. By destroying the European food market, Commissioner Mandelson is also destroying the opportunity for these poor countries held out in the EBA agreement.

No other wealthy country in the world, the US, Canada, Japan, Australia or New Zealand, has made such a tangible commitment to the 50 poorest countries in the world. The winners in Mr. Mandelson's scheme are not the poor countries of the world, they are the agriculture super-powers such as Brazil, and even in these countries the poor and landless will never benefit, as wealth and agricultural property is concentrated in the top 5% of the population.

If Mr. Mandelson gets his way Europe will be flooded with beef from South American ranches where landless labourers are paid only subsistence wages. Produced with lower costs, lower standards, and on enormous ranch scale units, dairy products, lamb, pork and chicken will be shipped to the EU from all over the world. The European model of agriculture based on the family farm structure will be destroyed. Corporate ranchers, multinational traders and shippers and international supermarket chains will reap huge profits, and once they have control, consumers will pay the price they set for food. There is no evidence that jobs will be created in industry or services in Europe to offset the massive €17 billion losses in European agriculture.

Mandelson is a failed negotiator. For all his concessions, the US and other countries have offered nothing. Both candidates for the Presidency of the United States are committed to protecting their farm and food industry as a vital national interest. They have stated quite clearly that food is a security issue for the US.

The US Congress recently passed a new Farm Bill worth $307 billion over the next five years. This is a very strong statement from US politicians, both Democrats and Republicans, that they are putting American farmers first. The Representatives and Senators voted by a two-thirds majority in favour of the $307 billion package, and not even the President of the United States can undo this. This is in sharp contrast to the hostile attitude of EU Commissioner for Trade, Peter Mandelson, who insists on selling out Irish and European agriculture in the WTO to the detriment of Irish farmers.

On Tuesday, 1 July, the French Presidency of the EU took office. Immediately, President Sarkozy signalled his determination to stop Mr. Mandelson's destruction of the Common Agricultural Policy. I very much welcome the strong defence mounted by the French. It makes sense. They will not throw away their food security and become dependent on South American countries to feed the French nation.

Mr. Mandelson will not give up lightly. He responded to President Sarkozy's reprimand with his typical arrogance. He flew to London and gave a press conference berating the French. By the middle of July, the fate of Irish agriculture and farming will have been decided. The WTO destroyed our sugar beet industry. We have to make a stand and I know the Taoiseach and the Government will take the lead.

Does Mr. Berkery wish to comment?

Mr. Michael Berkery

No, except to say that our president, Mr. Padraig Walshe, sends his regards to the committee. He was out of action briefly but is home now. Everything is fine and he will be back to work on Monday.

Please pass our regards on to him.

I welcome the IFA delegation and thank its members for their ongoing assistance with this campaign, which is critical to the future interests not just of the agricultural sector, but the wider economy. The point is well made that in the current climate, agriculture is one of the few economic bright spots.

I am not so sure that Mr. Deane's closing comment to the effect that by the middle of July the fate of Irish farmers will be decided is correct. The ministerial conference will go ahead but nobody really knows what will happen. This seems to have a dynamic of its own that defies analysis. It is undoubtedly true that the ministerial meeting is happening but I am not convinced that it will be possible to conclude a deal or push the process irrevocably towards a deal on 21 July. Mr. Deane referred to the North American political situation, which is one of many factors.

Critical to our interests now is the meeting which takes place in the week prior to 21 July, which President Sarkozy has called. We must closely align ourselves with that wagon in the context of the meeting in Geneva and the efforts being made to ensure that the deal that is on the table does not go through.

Another alarming development, which one could argue has nothing whatsoever to do with the WTO process, is an alignment of objectives. In the House later this morning, Deputies will be making statements on climate change and the now legally binding objectives to which we have signed up to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from agriculture. A 20% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions equates to a reduction of the suckler cow herd by 1 million animals. I am alarmed at the statements emanating from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government which suggest that the national herd is fair game or a fair target in the context of reducing our greenhouse gas emissions. The consequences of a bad WTO deal, as per the one on the table, for the national herd, and the beef herd in particular, would equate with the objectives which we must legally meet as part of the climate change strategy.

I support the principles of the climate change strategy but meeting our targets cannot be done at the expense of commercial agriculture in Ireland. While man-made contributions to climate change in the agricultural sector are a fair target in terms of determining how to reduce our emissions, the national herd must be off-limits. The deafening silence on that issue from my colleagues on the Government backbenches is alarming. We must wake up to this issue because there is an alarming alignment in evidence here. The WTO deal, as it currently stands would, at the stroke of a pen, meet the requirements on greenhouse gas reductions through a reduction in methane, which is the biggest single contributor to greenhouse gas emissions in the agricultural sector.

I am delighted to have the IFA here. Although these are difficult times, I am also pleased to note that, for the first time, we extracted in the Dáil on Tuesday the "V" word from the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. Given his and his predecessor's reluctance to refer to the veto up to now, that amounts to progress.

It is very difficult. We met in March and thought that D-day for agriculture would be in May but the expected ministerial meeting in Geneva did not happen. It will happen in July but it could go either way. It could blow the deal out of the water for up to two years or it could signal irrevocable momentum towards a deal. No one can be certain about it but I would hope it will be the latter. We will have to wait and see.

I thank Mr. Deane for his presentation. There is no doubt there are serious issues to be dealt with here. I am a strong supporter of Irish agriculture, the IFA and farmers. However, I wish to put on the record my disappointment with the way the Lisbon treaty was handled by the IFA. I have fully supported the IFA and Irish agriculture since being elected to the Dáil, if not before but I believe what happened was a pity. While I understand why it happened, I regret it nonetheless. One cannot put 15,000 people on the streets of Dublin and place advertisements in the national Sunday newspapers for four weeks asking people to vote "No" and then expect them to change their minds in the last week. It cannot happen and I am disappointed about that.

However, we are where we are and we must deal with the consequences of what has happened. I hope that we will still have the same level of influence in Europe and that the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food will fight our corner, as I am sure he will. I do not think any Irish Government will do anything to harm Irish agriculture. We raised this issue at parliamentary party meetings in the lead up to the Lisbon referendum and the Irish Government will do whatever it must to secure the livelihoods of small Irish farmers. I hope we have not lost influence because of what has happened but there is no point in dwelling on it now. We must simply deal with it and move on. I assure the delegation that anything that can be done, will be done. I will play my part, however small, in ensuring that farming in Ireland will be protected. I have no doubt that the traditional Irish farm will survive.

I welcome the delegation. We are on the eve of what could become a very serious situation for Irish agriculture. Our only hope lies in the French taking over the Presidency of the EU, who are great allies of the Irish and Irish agriculture. Coming from a farming background, I view this very seriously. Every aspect of the proposed deal mentioned here will have a devastating effect on the Munster area, whether it relates to pigs, sheep or poultry. Job losses are already occurring in rural towns and villages and such losses will increase if the deal goes ahead.

I was rather surprised that cheese was not mentioned in the IFA's submission. I understand that the cheese sector will be very badly affected because of an enormous increase in imports from places like New Zealand and Argentina. This, in turn, will have serious consequences for the dairy industry. No farmer in Ireland can produce milk at 24 cent a gallon, unless he also participates in the farm assist scheme. The situation is very serious, regardless of whether a farmer has 5 million acres, 2 million acres or 40 acres. I understand the economics of agriculture. Feed restrictions are creating problems for intensive farmers in the pig and poultry sectors. Approximately 30 million tonnes are being sent to China, which I did not realise. We are seeing an enormous resistance to the development of genetically modified crops and other agricultural commodities. The situation is quite serious. I acknowledge the point made by my colleague from Sligo in regard to the Lisbon treaty. We are all disappointed with that.

We must take account of climate change and the effects it will have. Reducing the herd by 1 million sucklers would be an easy option for scaling down greenhouse gas emissions but it would also mean the loss of 500,000 tonnes of beef. That money would be lost to the Exchequer. We are living in strange times given the stories we are hearing about the Wall Street crash of 1929 and the great depression of the 1930s. In those bad times, agriculture took this economy out of its recession. We need agriculture to stabilise our economy during this significant downturn for industry, trade and services across the world. Ireland's agriculture has long been the buffer for the economy in dark and difficult days.

We have the support of the Minister and the Taoiseach, who comes from an important rural constituency. We also have the support of France, although I cannot predict the decision of Germany given that Bavaria has more small farmers than Ireland. We have heard what happened to small farmers in India. In addition, South Africa might not support the proposal. It is all to play for but the Commissioner, Mr. Mandelson, is no friend of Ireland and our experience of him has not been good.

The pressure has to be maintained if we want to maintain a rural population and rural jobs. God knows, rural jobs have suffered from the management extremes practised by the many food industries that got rich quickly. A number of co-operatives have become private or shareholding companies, with the result that farmers are left looking on while five or six people have become very rich. This happened in my area. I am an investor but I have to say farmers were exploited. The IFA has always been to the fore in defending Irish farmers and I would like it to be even more active domestically and internationally.

I welcome the members of the delegation and thank them for their contributions. Unlike other members, I thought the IFA made a mistake in supporting the Lisbon treaty. It should have stood fast because it was right on day one.

Deputy Edward O'Keeffe correctly stated the Commissioner, Mr. Mandelson, is no friend of Ireland or our rural communities. His approach is based on the concerns of large urban centres but the consequences of his cheap food policy could be detrimental to European farmers.

The position taken by the two candidates for the US Presidency, John McCain and Barack Obama, in protecting American farmers should be commended because they have the interest of their electors at heart.

There can be no moral justification for arguing against improvements for poorer countries but we know from our own experience of Brazilian beef that big ranchers are the only people to benefit. The ordinary people who create their countries' wealth do not reap the benefit and they are victims of this type of policy.

As elected representatives, we have an obligation to ensure the Government represents the interests of Irish farmers by opposing Mr. Mandelson. If this is allowed to continue, the outcome will be a flood of cheap South American beef which does not meet the same health and safety criteria as European products. It will be detrimental to the beef and dairying industries, and pork, chicken and lamb producers will also be affected. We have to be strong because agricultural producers on this island will be the victims of mistakes made in the WTO negotiations.

In regard to corporate ranchers, multinational shippers and supermarket chains, there is a huge disparity between what consumers pay and what producers receive. That issue is not being addressed sufficiently at the political level, so we must take up that task.

This month could make or break the negotiations. The French President, Nicholas Sarkozy, supports our position and it was good to see him publicly chastise Mr. Mandelson. We have to do the same, however, because we cannot be diplomatic when we are facing an economic crisis. We need to vocally challenge Mr. Mandelson on this issue, not only in Ireland and France but throughout Europe. A collective effort is needed by political parties and farming organisations to build alliances with other groups outside this island if we are to challenge Mr. Mandelson. This will require considerable work and I wish the IFA well in it because we depend on a good outcome to the negotiations.

I welcome the IFA delegation. The future of the country depends on achieving a good deal on 20 July. We have no major national industry other than agriculture, which is the backbone of the country's economy. When we entered the EEC 35 years ago, we were promised that we could become the bread basket of Europe but imports of food from Australia, Brazil, Canada and the USA have weakened that prospect. However, we cannot forget the impact that Irish agriculture can have on the world in the years to come.

When Great Britain was on its knees in 1940, it turned to Ireland for food. Mr. Mandelson must have a very short memory if he does not think about that. He should not be allowed to ride roughshod over the WTO negotiations. The more support the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food can get in these negotiations, the better for us. We are lucky that President Sarkozy is playing a powerful hand in the issue and I have no doubt that he will play his part along with the Irish negotiators in getting the best deal possible for agriculture. However, it is clear that Mr. Mandelson is hell-bent on getting cheap food for the British housewife. It does not matter where it comes from as long as it is cheap. That is okay when the climate is as it is in the western hemisphere, but if matters turn again, where would he get the food to feed the 50 million to 60 million people in Great Britain?

We must do everything possible. We are in this game to win it. Let nobody try to discern that one or another party should get preference in fighting this battle because it will take every ounce of energy and effort we have to get the right deal for our Irish farmers.

I am very proud to be a member of the farming community since I was born. I was born in the worst year for agriculture in Ireland, the year of the economic war. My father said the best two-year-old bullock on the farm would not pay the christening money for me. That will tell what it was like. I know too well what it was like to live on 21 acres of land, 1,500 ft. above sea level.

Deputy Sheehan was not christened until his father got the ewes.

I know what it was to survive on the slopes of a mountain 1,500 ft. above sea level. Deputy Christy O'Sullivan was lucky enough to come from an area very close to where, if one lost one's walking stick at night one would not find it in the morning for the growth of grass. At an early age I joined the Cork Farmers Association and became a prominent member of it, and then the National Farmers Association and the IFA. I am a proud member of it. I walked from Bantry to Ballineen with the National Farmers Association and I met members here in Dublin long before I became a politician. I walked through the streets of Dublin to Leinster House with them.

Deputy Sheehan came up by train.

I had to come by train because I had nothing but a pick-up truck, which would never have made it to Dublin.

Was there a train to west Cork then?

Yes, and Deputy Edward O'Keeffe's party did away with it. That is the legacy Fianna Fáil gave us.

The time has come for common sense to prevail and for us in this country to fight tooth and nail and to support the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to get the best trade deal possible for our Irish farmers. The IFA has played and will play its part and will continue to monitor the progress of the WTO talks. I have great faith in the IFA because only for it agriculture would be dead and gone. I must remind my friends across the floor that gone are the days when the first Minister for Agriculture when this State was formed, the late Paddy Hogan, said the policy should be, "One more cow, one more sow and one more acre under the plough". That was quickly forgotten by other members who took over power in this country.

We must come to the important part of these WTO talks. It is clearly evident that there are moves afoot by Mr. Mandelson to steamroll his will against the wishes of the other negotiators at the table. I do not know what clout he has but we should have vital talks with all our allies in Europe to ensure they fully support us. I hope we do this before the WTO talks. The warning signals are there. There is only one way we can survive, and that is if we get a proper trade agreement at the WTO talks.

Our other industries are pulling out of the country. As the IFA delegation said here this morning, they are going to Bangladesh and Bangalore. I guarantee the farmers of Ireland will never relocate to Bangalore. As long as they can make a living in this country, they will be a the vital cog in the wheel to keep our nation going in the very difficult period approaching.

With these few words I wish the IFA the very best. It deserves the best. It has spoken from its heart on behalf of Irish farmers. It has explained to the people the necessity. I would not criticise what the IFA did before the referendum because it explained, in no uncertain fashion, that the referendum was not fully explained to the Irish people.

The farmers voted "No".

If Fianna Fáil paid heed to what the IFA was saying, maybe it would be better off. There is no call for the IFA to come out and explain the situation. It alerted the people to the dangers that lie ahead. That was the most important issue. The IFA explained its position when it got the commitment that the Government would use the veto, but it was like pulling teeth from a goose to get it. It did not give that promise to the farmers until ten days before the referendum.

(Interruptions).

Please allow Deputy Sheehan to continue.

It is clearly evident that if the IFA got the commitment it deserved on behalf of the Irish farmers three months before the referendum date was announced, it would never have put an advertisement in the Sunday newspapers. Deputy Edward O'Keeffe should cut out the nonsense and back the organisation that has kept farmers in this country alive through the years.

I welcome the IFA delegation and compliment it on its presentation. My senior colleague, Deputy Sheehan, has been here a long time and there was a difficulty about his age. We were not sure what was his real age but it is down to the date of his christening, which he said was a couple of years delayed. We wish him and his wife well.

I differ with the Deputy on a number of his comments on the veto. Although I was very disappointed, I accept the result of the Lisbon treaty referendum. The people have spoken. The IFA fully supported the treaty in January but I joined its march here because it was right to show Mr. Mandelson the strength of feeling we all shared. However, we got completely hung up on the veto issue. Every right thinking Irish person knows the veto would be used if it had to be used, and that would be at the last minute. The Government would not say it would use the veto six or 18 months or two years before the crunch talks. That is not good negotiation. I was very surprised that unlike its sister organisation, the IFA stayed on the one track all the time. Confusion was sown in the minds of the farming community by what happened and that has much to answer for in the situation.

I have made my comments known to the IFA. It displayed poor leadership. It was probably badly handled by all of us. We are much weaker going to our European colleagues to try to get the support. We have good support in many areas. That was picked up by the Minister's predecessor, Deputy Coughlan, and she had assured us, the IFA and her officials of that. We now have a weaker hand heading into the latest round but we must--

On a point of order, I accept the entitlement of speakers to express different opinions on what happened during the debate on the Lisbon treaty but it does not help our case to make the point publicly that we are in a weaker negotiating position. This plays into the hands of people with whom we must negotiate and we should be cautious about loose talk in the committee.

It is not loose talk. It is my opinion.

If members want me to cancel this meeting I have no problem doing so but I would rather not.

I do not want the meeting cancelled.

We are here on a serious mission and I ask Deputy McGrath to continue.

I appreciate that this is serious and, as Deputy Sheehan and others have said, we must support the Ministers and one another to get the best deal. A deal is a long way away and we must work hard behind the scenes with the Irish Farmers Association and other organisations to put the best foot forward for Ireland.

I welcome the delegation and apologise for my absence earlier. I have always admired the IFA for the strong stance it takes in representing farmers. I am a member of the organisation and think it has come a long way as it is the voice of the farming community in this country.

Like my colleagues, I have a problem with how the IFA handled the Lisbon treaty and I make no apologies for this. We are all human and can make mistakes. The approach of the IFA to the Lisbon treaty was a mistake. It is scandalous that we are where we are but we must move forward. We are lucky because the credit we built up in Europe is now standing us in good stead. Were it not for how this country has performed and the respect for it in Europe we would be in a weaker position today.

I listened recently to an interview with Commissioner Mandelson and I feel the wind is going out of his sails. He is on a different course, his voice does not have the certainty it had and this is due in no small way to the opposition he has met from us and our counterparts in Europe. I can sense the shift is coming and it is very welcome.

I admire the work of the IFA, the voice of Irish agriculture and it will always have my support in how it deals with agricultural matters.

I welcome the delegation. We are back to harrow ground that we have ploughed for some months. The IFA representatives will be aware of the views of this committee, our strong objection to the current round of WTO proposals and our strong belief that, if necessary, they should be vetoed. That is the view of this committee. A veto was also strongly supported by the Joint Committee on European Affairs and it appears, finally, to be supported by the Government.

We may state that the WTO negotiations are complex and long drawn out but the bottom line was, is and will be that no WTO agreement can be reached without unanimity. A veto can be applied by the Irish Government, the French Government and any other government involved. It is welcome that the French Government will, as was predicted as sure as night follows day, defend farmers, not only in France but throughout the European Union, and will, if necessary, veto any proposal.

I was unaware of the commitment finally given by the Minister a day or two ago, as mentioned by Deputy Creed. It is belated but I welcome it. In this regard I am satisfied that a WTO deal will not be pushed through in the current format because the veto can be applied. The French Government is not politically, economically or agriculturally insane and I hope the Irish Government is not either. A short-term veto that could apply until Christmas or this time next year is one side of the equation. Negotiations will continue to challenge us.

An alarming scenario relating to our legal climate change obligations has been highlighted by Deputy Creed and I must concede that I had not thought it through. This is an all-party committee but it can divide on party lines occasionally and it is difficult to know where the Government is coming from regarding climate change. At yesterday's meeting of this committee on genetically modified foods a group of senior experts made an outstanding presentation and came down firmly on one side, seeking the advancement of the GM argument.

However, the contents of the programme for Government run contrary to this. Experts at yesterday's meeting said the policy on GM foods in the programme for Government is detrimental to the future of Irish agriculture and food supply in Europe and the world. If one takes into account this round of WTO negotiations, along with climate change issues and the signals coming from one party in Government, there is cause for concern. I hope the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Taoiseach move quickly to clarify maters.

I thank the members of the delegation for attending this meeting. They know that this committee, the other relevant Oireachtas committees and, hopefully, the Government will sing from the same hymn sheet. We recognise that the WTO proposals put forward by Commissioner Mandelson will ruin agriculture, food security and food safety, not only in Ireland, but in Europe. This cannot be allowed.

My colleagues have raised many of the issues relating to the Lisbon treaty referendum campaign. Last month was last month and will be two months ago in a month's time. The IFA's advertising campaign succeeded in starkly presenting the scale of the WTO issue for the public. As a mark of goodwill, I invite the delegates to continue, over the next three to four weeks, the advertising campaign on the threat posed to Irish agriculture and the Irish and European food supply by the WTO talks. We always considered that the two issues were unrelated, and I still consider it to be the case, but the WTO has not gone away. The IFA was correct to be concerned about this and to take out expensive advertisements in the Sunday Independent two months ago. I invite the delegates to continue that campaign.

I add my support to what everyone has stated today. Every member of this committee fully supports the stand taken by the IFA and agri-food business people. We are very proud of our Ministers for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and Enterprise, Trade and Employment, past and present. They went out and got support - 19 countries, the Taoiseach, the Government, the Leaders of the Opposition and Opposition parties are all fully behind this. We must all work together in the best interests of agriculture and, now that France holds the Presidency of the EU, it is worth noting that Ireland and France have been great allies through the years.

The clerk and I attended a conference in Slovenia recently representing this committee. Approximately 24 EU countries were represented. The big debate was on food security because there is a serious scarcity in this regard. We heard again yesterday about the number of people worldwide who are dying from starvation. I do not think Mr. Mandelson will be allowed to make the changes he wishes. Again, I wish the representatives well. We have all worked together. We may have had our differences over the Lisbon treaty and so forth, but we have to move on, as Deputy Scanlon said, and work together. I can guarantee that this committee and the Oireachtas are 110% behind the farmers.

Mr. Derek Deane

I wish to clear up the issue of the veto. On 3 June, the Taoiseach, Deputy Brian Cowen, reaffirmed Ireland's position regarding the WTO talks. According to a statement from the Taoiseach's office:

The Taoiseach said he did not believe the conditions currently existed in the Doha Round to justify calling a WTO ministerial meeting in Geneva. The set of proposals so far on the table would require agriculture to bear a disproportionate burden while delivering little in other sectors and are, therefore, unacceptable to the Government. Any WTO agreement must not undermine our agricultural interests.

Mr Cowen reaffirmed that unanimity is required for EU approval of the outcome of the current WTO negotiations and, therefore, Ireland can veto EU agreement to an unacceptable deal. The Lisbon Treaty would not change these arrangements or the existence of this veto.

The Taoiseach assured the IFA that he was prepared to use the veto if a deal that is unacceptable to Ireland is put to a vote.

This was the agreement made by the IFA with the Taoiseach on this issue. From that day we pushed very strongly for a "Yes" vote in the referendum. All our indications and polls showed that 76% of our members voted for the treaty. Those are the facts and I would like to clear up the matter.

I welcome the support from around this table and I also welcome Deputy Creed's statement that the national herd is certainly off limits. However, the real issue here today is Geneva. We are still extremely concerned because we were told all along that this ministerial meeting would not happen. It is happening under our noses. We are now at the eleventh hour. We need to be strong and determined in supporting the French. We do not need to look for a deal but to stop Mr. Mandelson. That is the issue here. Mr. Mandelson must be stopped. It is quite clear, even in statements made as recently as today, that he is trying to take on the president of one of the biggest states in the EU, France, in order to get his evil way. It must be stopped. I am asking for the strongest support, which I know I have, from this committee and particularly from the Government representatives on this issue. The next three weeks are critical. We, in farming, can play an important part in bringing our economy back to a position of strength. However, there must be a trade deal down the road that will work and give European consumers and farmers access for their produce within Europe. This is absolutely critical.

All of the points made have been in support of farmers. The Chairman's final point is critical. The debate has moved on to food security. We need to bear that in mind at all times. It would be absolute folly at this point to concede European food production to the South Americans, because we could find in one year or three years that there is no supply and we could not invigorate European food production at the drop of a hat. We all know the duration of food production cycles and the time it takes. We have a brilliant agricultural industry in Ireland and in Europe, producing to the highest standards for our consumers. It is certainly worth fighting for. Listening to Deputy Sheehan talk of what happened during the economic crisis, I was thinking that we certainly do not want to go back to those times. We must remember that the EU and the Common Agricultural Policy were formed in dark and difficult times, and this is certainly not the time to throw it out.

Mr. Michael Berkery

Like Mr. Deane, our deputy president, I welcome the support around the table, but I consider 21 July to be D-Day. I will quote one sentence from Commissioner Mandelson's rebuttal of President Sarkozy's censure when they had a public exchange in the last couple of days. The official text of the Commissioner's response states: "The question we have to ask ourselves is: do we want a model that keeps the old structures and inefficiency, or rather a model that progressively lifts distortions to agricultural trade, and makes European farmers more competitive?" This shows the Commissioner's prejudice and the historical baggage that he carries. Deputy Sheehan referred to the 1940s. Mr. Mandelson's grandfather, Herbert Morrison, was a Labour Minister in the British coalition Government in the run-up to the war. It was Herbert Morrison who, during the war, had to put in place the emergency measures to feed 50 million people on the island of Great Britain, so there is a connection. I just remembered that point.

This man has nothing but contempt for the family farm model of European agriculture. He will have great plains, ranchers, traders and boardrooms, and people with whom he may ply his influence. The Chairman knows that for a long time this has been the culture and ethos of this organisation. Although he portrays European agriculture as backward and inefficient, nothing could be further from the truth. Billions of euros of farmers' inheritance, savings, investment and borrowings have gone into making European agriculture what it is now. We should consider how many people we are feeding today compared to in the 1950s or other times in the past. There have been 2% to 3% increases in productivity year on year, but all this is disregarded. This man is coming from a position of prejudice which will destroy the model to which we are so dearly attached. He will destroy it by handing it to traders and ranchers. If we consider the history of the South American Continent or of Australia and New Zealand, we can see they have not evolved in the same way or from the same historical perspective as Ireland, with our structure of counties, parishes and farm families.

In reply to the point made by Deputy McGrath, I had a 90 minute meeting, along with our president, Mr. Padraig Walshe, and Mr. Michael Treacy, our director in Brussels, with Commissioner Fischer Boel the week before last. I report to the committee that there was nothing in the way of diminution of our influence or engagement with the Commissioner that I could detect on the day. There is an idea around that somehow the Taoiseach is less influential now.

Some brownie points--

Mr. Michael Berkery

I can only report to this committee what I have found to be the case. There was engagement on the issues and on the health check. There was a discussion, for example, about the potential to increase the milk quota in Ireland and across Europe by at least 2% rather than 1.5%. We are as one in that regard. I know that the Minister also has a good relationship at an official level. I would not worry about that as an issue. However, I would worry about Mr. Mandelson, who is the only enemy in the room that we can all identify. He will use any argument, any pretence, any reason he can muster to destroy what has been built up over centuries because he is hell-bent on doing so. He does not like the model and he will find every reason possible to undermine it.

There is always the red card.

The clerk to the committee will inform the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment of our discussion today and I will personally contact both of them to impress upon them the importance of this discussion.

Mr. Michael Berkery

We welcome the statements of the Minister, Deputy Smith, after the Council of Ministers two weeks ago in Brussels. He made a clear statement that the proposals on the table were unacceptable to the Government. That is reassuring to the farm community.

I ask for an initial response to my suggestion that the IFA should continue with its public information campaign on the dangers and threat of the WTO.

Mr. Michael Berkery

If Senator Bradford gets today's Irish Farmers’ Journal, he will find a strongly worded half-page advertisement specifically about the WTO issue. A decision has not been taken about the national media--

It would be helpful.

Mr. Michael Berkery

We may consider that, although our advertising budget is under severe pressure.

On behalf of the committee, I thank Mr. Deane, Mr. Berkery and Mr. Kavanagh for attending the meeting. We are 110% behind them as they will know. Is it agreed to suspend the meeting while the witnesses withdraw? Agreed.

Sitting suspended at 10.51 a.m. and resumed at 10.53 a.m.
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