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Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine debate -
Wednesday, 23 Feb 2022

Development of the Hemp Sector in Ireland: Discussion

I welcome representatives of Hemp Cooperative Ireland, Ms Kate Carmody, chairperson, Mr. Eoin Carew, secretary and Mr. Declan Darcy, treasurer and from the Hemp Federation Ireland, Ms Chris Allen, the director and Mr. Marcus John McCabe, expert advisory board member.

Ms Kate Carmody

I thank the committee for the opportunity to speak to it today on this important issue. I am here in my role as chair of Hemp Cooperative Ireland, which was set up in May 2018 by myself, other farmers and interested parties. It came about because we shared a vision of the great potential for hemp cultivation in Ireland. We now have 262 shareholders, made up of farmers, processors and supporters of the industry. We have eight board members of various backgrounds who volunteer their time as they are passionate about the development of the industry.

In my comments today, I will set out why hemp is an important crop for Ireland, how it can be taken up across Irish agriculture and how hemp cultivation can lead to new jobs through high value products across a range of sectors including health products, food, clothing and construction. I will also touch on hemp and its environmental benefits in bioremediation and adaptation to climate change and its role in the just transition for our farming communities.

Hemp Cooperative Ireland supports farmers to access resources, equipment and markets through a national body and four regional hubs, covering the four provinces of Ireland. Increasing the amount of hemp grown here can help Ireland become a leader in carbon sequestration as we strive to meet our 2030 commitments. Hemp on average sequesters 10 tonnes of net carbon dioxide per hectare, so 10,000 ha sown would reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 100,000 tonnes per annum, incredibly in a four month window.

Economic valuations show that on average hemp has a 39.5% higher gross margin in comparison to winter wheat. In recent years the area dedicated to hemp cultivation in the EU has increased from less than 20,000 ha in 2015 to 35,000 ha in 2019, a 75% increase. France is the largest producer accounting for 70% of EU production.

The hemp stalk is separated into fibre and shiv, the shiv being the woody core. The fibre is used for clothing, textiles, insulation and, more recently, biocomposites. The woody core of the plant is used for building products, including hempcrete, fibre board and insulation. Furthermore, it is used as bedding material, biomass and paper.

The seed from the hemp plant can be used in many ways. The oil from the seed is in food, body care products and technical products. The omega-6 to omega-3 ratio in hempseed oil is 3:1, which is considered to be optimal for human health. The seed cake can be used as an animal feed-rich flour that is 33.5% protein. The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine stated in 2014 that the dependence of Ireland and the EU on imported protein sources such as soya bean meal had initiated a legislative and political push towards the development of indigenous plant–based protein sources. There is a great opportunity to use hemp to improve this situation, considering that 415,000 tonnes of soya bean meal was imported in 2020. The leaf and flower of the plant contains many bioactive compounds suitable for health products.

By developing a hemp industry in Ireland, Hemp Cooperative Ireland forecasts an immediate and lasting environmental impact by reducing the volume of high-polluting fossil fuels required for industry. Of equal importance is the potential of hemp for rural regeneration. An indigenous hemp industry has the potential to create 80,000 rural jobs according to a recent report from Teagasc. This is direct and indirect job creation and is based on the premise that legislative frameworks be put in place and State bodies be willing to fund the industry. For every €8.9 million invested in the sector, somewhere in the range of 200 to 400 direct and indirect jobs will be created in agriculture. To create 10,250 jobs annually, the hemp industry would need to attract an average of €150 million investment each year. Hemp Cooperative Ireland has made recent efforts to commence dialogue with State funding agencies like Enterprise Ireland and LEADER to ascertain what potential support could be available. However, our efforts have been met with resistance. At these early stages of trying to grow the hemp industry in Ireland, Government assistance will be a key component of the tri-party funding that will be required to help invest in machinery and infrastructure. Hemp Cooperative Ireland also intends to raise funding through a members share issue and private investment.

There is a housing crisis in Ireland and we maintain that hemp is part of the solution. Buildings are possible using hemp shiv with lime as a replacement for concrete, not to mention a solution to retrofitting older cottages. Hempcrete is CO2 absorbing, fire resistant and breathable. For example, 2 tonnes of hemp shiv will be sufficient to build an average house and will sequester 3.7 tonnes of CO2. Hemp can also retrofit our existing housing stock and there are many homes in our rural towns and villages that could benefit.

According to the CSO in 2016, since only 5% of Irish farmers are under 35 years of age and 30% are over 65, there need to be as many incentives as possible to entice young people into becoming farmers and for this occupation to be a long-term source of income. We as an organisation promote hemp as a rotational crop for all farming systems. It is an ideal break crop that creates an added income stream. If hemp was recognised in any carbon credit scheme, it would enable a just transition for our rural communities. There is a great deal of agricultural activity on drained peatland, which by its very nature is a major contributor to carbon emissions. It is unjust to suggest that these farmers should be told to rewet these lands when they could instead be offered the opportunity to grow hemp to initiate this just transition.

Hemp decontaminates soil as a natural phytoremediation crop. It promotes biodiversity as a late-flowering source of pollen for bees. Hemp grows well in organic systems and improves soil structure. It also needs no artificial fertiliser, is not reliant on pesticides, fungicides or herbicides and increases certain crop yields by 25% while limiting weeds and, therefore, reliance on spraying. We outlined our vision to the Department of Agriculture, Food and Marine in more detail when we responded to its consultation call last summer. This submission was endorsed by the Irish Farmers' Association, IFA, and the Irish Grain Growers group. Hemp fits neatly into the emerging bio-economy and is an opportunity that we should not miss, but it currently cannot be supported because it is not included in policy.

The global hemp industry is growing and Ireland is in a unique position to become a major player in the EU. Of the major issues facing Ireland, hemp is uniquely positioned to provide part of the solution. A hemp industry supported by the Government will create green jobs in rural communities, entice young farmers and provide an additional income stream to all farmers, thereby helping Irish farmers and businesses to meet carbon goals while integrating into their existing farming systems. The time to support the hemp industry is now and Hemp Cooperative Ireland is ready to engage with the Government at national and local levels. Without Government support, Ireland will be left behind our EU counterparts that have flourishing hemp industries.

To summarise the needs of and barriers to the industry, we need engagement at government and local levels, funding, collaboration, and research and development. Teagasc has done some research and development and there is a European Innovation Partnership, EIP, project ongoing in Loop Head, County Clare called Hemp 4 Soil. We have a lack of infrastructure and support for hubs. Legislation and funding are also lacking. There needs to be education about industrial hemp and insurance companies do not want to cover hemp products.

The benefits of using hemp include import substitution, rural regeneration and job creation, in which respect there is a Teagasc report that I would refer to. They also include the environment and CO2 sequestration, soil regeneration and rotational crops, which is of interest to farmers.

In addition, it is of benefit in housing retrofits and plant-based proteins.

I invite Ms Allen to make her opening statement.

Ms Chris Allen

I thank the Chairman and the committee for this opportunity to discuss the development of the Irish hemp industry. I am the director of Hemp Federation Ireland, HFI, which is Ireland's national hemp industry stakeholder body. I am joined by my colleague Mr. McCabe, who is a member of our advisory board on agriculture. He is an organics and permaculture expert and has grown and processed more than 80% of all hemp grown in Ireland in the past two decades.

The Irish hemp industry is one of the oldest in the European Union, with a small but fully operational supply chain since the 1990s. Irish hemp farmers and industry operators are among Europe's leading industry authorities. Europe's oldest dedicated hemp retail outlet is situated in Dublin.

There are nine EU statutory instruments establishing the legal basis for the operation of the European agricultural market in hemp and hemp-derived products, all of which are immediately applicable to Ireland. Article 34 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union further protects the integrity of the operation of the Single Market in hemp and derived products. In addition, three European Court of Justice rulings going back to 2008 all positively clarify various aspects of the operation of the EU hemp market. The tetrahydrocannabinol, THC, content in hemp is not illegal under Irish misuse of drugs legislation as a direct consequence of the primacy of EU law.

The support of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine for Commission regulations establishing the EU hemp industry has driven the development of the Irish hemp sector since the 1970s. Indeed, during Ireland's Presidency of the EU in 2004, the extension of trade in hemp between member states was a priority for the then Minister for Agriculture and Food, Joe Walsh of Fianna Fáil. Mr. Walsh secured EU regulatory amendments which would serve to extend the operation of the EU agricultural hemp market into the future.

In November 2020, a particularly clear European Court of Justice decision in case C-663/18, also known as the Kanavape ruling, again confirmed the legality and scientific safety of hemp and derived products in Europe. The supremacy of the European Court of Justice in interpreting both EU law and the treaties is acknowledged by Ireland and all Irish regulators. Indeed, on 20 October 2021, the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Thomas Byrne, advised the Oireachtas committee of Ireland's policy in this regard, stating:

As EU member states, there is an onus on us all to comply with determinations of the European Court of Justice with a view to maintaining our shared legal order. As part of membership of the Union, it is also essential that member states accept the primacy of European Union law, which is a principle of the European Union going back to a time prior to when Ireland was a member.

The website of the European Commission website carries the following clarifying information on hemp:

Hemp (Cannabis sativa Linn) is a species in the Cannabaceae family in which the level of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) is very low, according to the provisions under the common agricultural policy (CAP). Hemp is grown primarily for its industrial uses and there are 75 different hemp varieties registered in the EU catalogue. Due to the very low level of THC, hemp complying with the provisions of the CAP is not used to produce narcotic drugs.

Much of the present confusion in Ireland in respect of hemp results from the transfer of primary responsibility for the agricultural hemp sector to the Department of Health. Much of the discourse emerging from the health committee discussions on medicinal cannabis in the context of our farm crop and products adds to this confusion. In November 2016, Dr. Lorraine Nolan of the Health Products Regulatory Authority, HPRA, appeared before the Oireachtas health committee to discuss access to medicinal cannabis. In her opening statement she advised, "Cannabis is prohibited other than in specified circumstances where all activities relating to cultivation, manufacture and supply of cannabis, and products containing THC, are subject to licence." However, the licensing procedures described by Dr. Nolan apply only to cannabis and have never applied to the trace amounts of 0.2% THC naturally found in agricultural hemp. Medicines and food exist in entirely separate regulatory frameworks.

In 2017, Dr. Nolan again attended the Oireachtas health committee to discuss access to medicinal cannabis. On that occasion, Mr. Eugene Lennon, principal officer in the medicines and controlled drugs unit in the Department of Health, was also in attendance. Having brought up the subject of hemp food supplements, Mr. Lennon was asked, "Is there an acceptable level of THC?" by the committee Chairman in a follow-up question. Mr. Lennon replied:

As the law stands, only trace elements are acceptable. Otherwise, it becomes a controlled drug and a licence is required.

Sitting suspended at 6.56 p.m. and resumed at 6.58 p.m.

Ms Chris Allen

It is clear that as the law stands, produce derived from the EU CAP-regulated farm crop was never considered to fall within the scope of the Irish misuse of drugs laws regulatory framework and these products were never subject to HPRA licence. In fact, in 2019 Hemp Federation Ireland asked the HPRA if it would license agricultural foods with trace amounts of THC. The HPRA replied in writing that it did not do so and did not envisage a situation in which it would issue such a licence as it does not consider hemp-derived foods containing trace amounts of THC to fall within the scope of the misuse of drugs regulatory framework.

From an agricultural perspective, the European Commission formally recognises the capacity of the hemp industry to meet EU CAP, farm to fork and climate policy objectives.

The financial benefits of hemp cultivation to EU farmers and rural communities are also highlighted by the Commission and, in both of these contexts, the Commission advises that all uses of hemp are important to consider when we look at the future development of the EU industry. In 2021, hemp was included in Article 75 of the CMO regulation by the Commission, and the THC content in EU hemp in the field will go to 0.3% in January 2023. A Commission regulation establishing EU authorised limits for THC in hemp foods in Europe is already written and goes to final stage scrutiny before the EU Committee on Plants, Animals, Food and Feed next week.

The Commission's support for the exceptional competencies of the hemp plant are very important considerations at this seminal moment of transformation in agricultural systems and practices. Europe is leading global efforts to tackle climate change under land use, land use change and forestry, LULUCF. The EU carbon cycles initiative is specifically geared to provide a basis for global buy-in and it envisages a globally operational carbon cycles framework going forward. The objective is to reform completely land use management and our systems of agricultural food production and to repair our soils. The second remit for farmers under the scheme is to grow biomass, which will green global industry, providing new fibre materials to replace fossil carbon. The carbon cycles system is designed hierarchically, with high protein, low energy vegetable food production at the top of the cascade. The world is witnessing the birth of a new currency, a new means of exchange, backed by a carbon reserve that farmers will hold in their lands.

Hemp sequesters more CO2 than any forest can and it is also the most complete plant-based protein known to man. In every context of the carbon cycle cascade, the crop is beyond compare. These competencies must be fully integrated at every point along the supply chain, from farm to fork and from seed to industrial solution, integrating farming and industrial practice at local level for a carbon neutral Irish, EU and global economy. Hemp is one of the most valuable agricultural commodities in the context of carbon budgets and the context of climate change.

The European Commission, global corporations and global banks have called repeatedly for European member states to ensure the carbon cycles programme is launched in a completely open, honest, ethical and transparent way to inspire farmers with confidence and security in the transition process. The Commission has insisted over and over again, at the very highest level, that the economic benefits of the new system must go directly to farmers and that those economic benefits must constitute additional farm income. As the roll-out of the EU carbon cycle initiative gets under way across Europe, in Ireland earlier applications of unlawful economic sanctions by the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland, SBCI, have enabled the Department to propose a development plan for our industry where two thirds of our traditional incomes no longer exist.

Hemp Federation Ireland would like to expand on how the environmental aspects of this industry actually function and how the industry should be developed to best capture the fully integrated environmental, economic and social returns for our country. Today, however, our submission must focus on the extraordinary regulation of the hemp industry in Ireland since 2018. From that time, almost every rule and regulation governing the operation of our industry has been changed without prior consultation or subsequent explanation. This was achieved by suspending Ireland's observance of EU laws in direct and indirect ways, steering all conversations away from the agricultural and environmental potentials of the crop. The Oireachtas record shows that the long-standing official representation of the hemp industry by Irish Ministers for Agriculture, Food and the Marine changed suddenly and dramatically in 2019. All mention of our food produce is removed and the Misuse of Drugs Act is invoked for the first time, alongside terms such as “strictest levels of control”. This change effectively rebrands hemp as cannabis and transfers responsibility for our agricultural industry from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine to the Department of Health.

The Department of Health then began transforming the regulatory framework surrounding our agricultural markets and supply chains in consultation with pharmaceutical and tobacco companies. No regard was ever shown for democratic principles throughout, none of the regulatory interventions have ever been justified by science, as is required by EU law, and, as a result, our national farm-based sector is no longer able to function. The Irish farmers and operators encouraged into the sector by previous Irish Ministers for agriculture, with the support of Departments and Government agencies, are now facing 14-year prison sentences for possessing the very same CAP-regulated farm crops they were previously encouraged to embrace.

The lobbying returns show that, throughout this entire time, Irish Ministers, party leaders, senior civil servants and successive Ministers for health were engaging in consultations on hemp with a global tobacco corporation now repositioning to capture the emerging global hemp markets. These same public officials have consistently refused to engage with Irish hemp farmers and business owners operating in the sector for decades - the people who built this agricultural industry and who earn their living in the sector.

In 2020, commercial control over all elements of our agricultural crop, our farm revenues and our industry value chain was transferred by the then Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation to pharmaceutical companies. Enterprise Ireland removed all access to State enterprise support from all Irish hemp farms and businesses, including Covid-19 supports. Only pharmaceutical companies can now access business support for any commercial activity related to any part of the EU hemp crop in Ireland. When questioned in the Dail as to whether industry bodies were consulted beforehand, the then Minister for Finance replied that the Minister for Health decides who the relevant stakeholders are. Many such issues are described in detail in Hemp Federation Ireland's letter of September 2021 to the Secretary General of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, which is available on our website. I have provided some examples for the information of the committee.

The EU hemp industry is protected under primary EU regulations and Article 34 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, TFEU, and by three separate EU Court of Justice decisions. The operators who work in the sector on farms and in shops and businesses throughout Ireland are entitled to the protections afforded to all EU citizens under the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights. I hope the committee will be able to protect the Irish hemp industry and prevent further transfer of our industry to pharmaceutical companies before the pending High Court review of the matter is decided in Ireland in July.

I thank the committee members for their time and attention in understanding what is a difficult and complex situation.

I welcome our guests. The opening statement of Hemp Federation Ireland forecasts that developing a hemp industry in Ireland will have an immediate and lasting environmental impact and that an indigenous hemp industry has the potential to create 80,000 rural jobs, according to a report from Teagasc. What is that based on? What kind of jobs are entailed within that?

Ms Kate Carmody

I want to introduce Eoin Carew and Declan Darcy, who are the appropriate people to answer those questions.

Mr. Eoin Carew

That figure is over eight years and it is approximately 10,250 jobs annually. It will take an €8.9 million investment to create 600 jobs, which is 200 direct and 400 indirect jobs. That was in the report from Teagasc in 2019.

How much land would have to be sown to achieve that?

Mr. Eoin Carew

There was no mention of land in the report, which referred to direct jobs, indirect jobs and induced jobs. The direct jobs would be for farmers employed by the agribusiness project, the indirect jobs would be created by suppliers and distributors, and the induced jobs would be created when overall economic activity rises.

One of the key questions regarding the resistance to opening up the industry is based on the THC presence. Is that based on scientific concerns or is it an over-zealous attitude towards the presence of THC? Products with even a tiny amount of THC are banned. What do the witnesses think is holding the industry back from opening up?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

When we are looking at toxic levels of any material, whether a pesticide or any chemical whatsoever, the first thing we look at is the no observable effect level, NOEL, and the lowest observable effect level. We then have an acute dose and what is known as the LD50, the lethal dose. Obviously we do not want to be in the range of a lethal dose; we want to be in the safe zone. I will take coffee as a good example. If one has a sip of coffee, there is going to be no observable effect. After one or two cups of coffee, one is into the lowest observable effect level. After five or six cups of coffee, one is going to feel a bit sick because one has had too much. This is all very practical. The problem we have at the moment is that the level that is being used by Irish agencies is in the no observable effect level. This has been noticed as being dangerous. It is a real problem because businesses are being closed down because the science based on the toxicity is not being looked at properly. That is a fundamental problem in the hemp industry.

Ms Chris Allen

The European Court of Justice in November 2020 determined that no independent scientific research shows any effect whatsoever from THC at a level of 0.2% in hemp and foods. It has also stated that governments can only ban this crop in certain circumstances. It would only be legal for Ireland to do what it has done with this crop if it were able to show there is some danger in a 0.2% level of THC. The World Health Organization, WHO, and the WHO Expert Committee on Drug Dependence, ECDD, which advises the World Health Organization on policy concerning narcotic substances and the operation of the UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, have stated there is no safety concern regarding any product with a 0.2% THC level. Indeed, the Food Safety Authority of Ireland has stated it has no concern about any product that can possibly be made from the EU-compliant hemp crop. The issue in Ireland is this new interpretation of the misuse of drugs laws. Clearly from the presentation I gave the committee and from the Oireachtas record of the Joint Committee on Health, the Department of Health's policymakers in 2017 did not consider this crop to be in any way a narcotic drug. Ireland is regulating this farming industry outside the provisions of EU laws that it helped to establish. There are no safety concerns whatsoever. I can send the committee the details of the World Health Organization's studies and constant advice to national governments.

Ms Allen has probably already answered my next question. Is it up to individual countries to determine the permissible level of THC in a product? Who has the primary decision-making capacity in that regard? Is it individual governments?

Ms Chris Allen

No. EU Regulations 1307 and 1308 govern the operation of the agricultural markets in Europe. Regulation 1308 outlines the rules and regulations governing the cultivation of crops such as hemp. There are many requirements within those regulatory provisions. One is that a farmer must be choosing a seed form the EU novel food seed catalogue. All of those seeds are guaranteed to be below the 0.2% THC level. A farmer must also implement checks in fields and adhere to various stringent checks and balances to determine that the cultivation of the crop is in compliance with European regulations. The 0.2% level is in the EU regulations.

The basic decision of the European Court of Justice was as follows. France had tried to ban some cannabidiol, CBD, products made from hemp because it was illegal in France under the misuse of drugs laws to commercialise any part of the crop other than the seeds and fibre. The European Court of Justice ruled that hemp-derived CBD made from any part of the plant is a legal product protected by Article 34 of the Treaty of the Functioning of the EU, TFEU, and that no EU member state may prohibit the free marketing of trade in hemp made legally in any other EU member state. That was in 2020.

What is involved in the process of securing a licence which would entitle the farmer to the basic payment scheme? Is it worth the farmer's trouble to try to get that licence?

Ms Chris Allen

I think it is. There is an awful lot of interest in this area. In 2019, Hemp Federation Ireland did a kind of outreach project and we travelled all around the country. We were in small places in Galway and all over the country. We were in packed rooms and having to look for chairs to accommodate people who had travelled the length and breadth of the country because they are interested in this crop. They understand the environmental benefits of the sector. The State and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine need to understand that those environmental benefits must be fully integrated. There are too many of them not to do that. For example, Ireland's land currently emits CO2. We have some CO2 storage in our forests but because of the degradation of our forests, that CO2 will be gone. It will not be there anymore by 2030. Trees we plant today, for example, will not start to sequester carbon until well into the 2030s.

I ask Ms Allen to keep her answers brief.

Ms Chris Allen

That is fine. Will I stop? I was just trying to explain how to integrate those environmental benefits, which I think is an important point.

Ms Kate Carmody

I would like to answer the Deputy's question about farming and the licence. I am an organic dairy farmer and in my experience, there is no trouble getting a licence if one is honest on the form and wants to use hemp for fibre. I use it as a rotational crop in my farming system. I used it for bedding for cattle. I use the seed when I can harvest it to feed pigs. There is a lot of work going on all over Europe. I was part of a European focus group looking at soil decontamination and the role of medicinal plants such as hemp in creating value added income for farmers. It is a no-brainer for the farming community. I live in north Kerry and before the pandemic, I had a queue of farmers at my kitchen door every week. They want to bring their children home from all over the world to farm their land but they want them to make money. They do not want them to lose. I live in a drained peatland area which is getting wetter and harder to farm. I do not want farmers having to apply for a licence. Industrial hemp has very little CBD or THC if it is being grown for fibre. It is on the drop-down menu for the basic payment now if one wants to grow it for industrial or seed purposes. I grow if for the fibre, as I said. Any farmer should be allowed to grow hemp and put it on their basic payment form; end of story. The people who have to deal with all this paperwork for the Health Products Regulatory Authority, HPRA, are probably pulling their hair out with all of the applications. The HPRA could go out and check the crops to ensure we are not breaking the law. That is the way the system should be working. I can tell the committee that the farmers will embrace it.

I talk to farming groups all the time and they love the idea. We just need help to get there.

I have two quick questions; I am aware that others want to get in. In trying to secure finances and grants, the representatives have met resistance from Enterprise Ireland and when trying to get LEADER funding and so on. Will they give us an idea of how much resistance is out there and at what level?

Ms Kate Carmody

I have applied to Enterprise Ireland. It said its policy is not to fund hemp and not to fund a co-operative, but CAP is changing next year so co-operatives can get funding. LEADER has been very resistant because it does not have the money and has now run out of money. We submitted a major EIP-AGRI project for the whole of Ireland to the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. It was €1.2 million, which is not huge in the scale of things, but we were turned down flat. I was told by the Department that it will not fund hemp until it is in policy. I am asking the committee to take industrial hemp out of the Misuse of Drugs Act and put it into agriculture where it belongs.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

The point is there is no hemp. We are importing hemp into the country at present. It is even more difficult now because there are customs problems due to Brexit and significant transport costs in bringing it in from Europe. We should be growing it here. We need an industry and investment in it. To give an idea of the scale, 1 acre will supply approximately 100 consumers with food products, while 5 acres will build a house. If we want to build 10,000 houses from hemp, that is 50,000 acres straightaway, which will also produce food. It can be seen very quickly that this is an enormous crop. In fact, hemp is our oldest agricultural crop. It is our most useful and multipurpose crop. We need to invest in it and remove the sanctions. We need insurance, banking and multi-agency involvement as opposed to multi-agency sanctions. That will transform the situation very quickly.

There is a fortune waiting. We have an ideal climate and it is a sin that we are doing exactly the wrong thing instead of exactly the right thing. It is great to have this opportunity to put across the potential. We just need to get our heads together. We have been asking very patiently for a meeting about the regulation. Let us be honest about it; it all comes down to the issue of THC. If vintners were sitting in front of the committee, they would be complaining about being closed down for a thimbleful of shandy. That is just a very simple analogy of where we are with THC. It simply does not make any sense. We need to be adult. We need to grow up and look at how we can unleash this industry that will bring a lot of wealth into the country.

Has the sector engaged with Departments regarding the contribution hemp may make to climate mitigation measures and retrofitting through insulation? Is there potential to cut down on imports for retrofitting through the use of hemp?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Absolutely, but there is no engagement.

There has not been any engagement.

Mr. Declan Darcy

Hemp is an import substitute for retrofitting. It is the perfect crop for retrofitting. There are jobs in employing people to grow it. For example, it fits in perfectly with arable-grown crops and we would get building material as well. The problem is getting accreditation from the SEAI. Imported products can be accredited but any home-grown Irish products for building are not yet accredited. That is a hurdle as well.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

We need on-farm infrastructure and on-farm machinery that is specialised for hemp. These are major obstacles.

I thank the representatives for coming in. I have met some of them previously. My understanding is that people growing hemp could have the Garda coming to them accusing them of something. A few years ago, I remember we put in questions to try to see if this could be resolved. To be honest about it, we are facing a brick wall.

I have a few questions. Ms Carmody talked about peaty ground. I am not an expert but I have talked to people in Clare, Monaghan and different parts who were growing hemp. They were sowing an acre or maybe 2 or 3 acres. None of it was large scale; let us put it that way. I remember at the time that two blades were needed for cutting it, one for cutting it at the butt and another for the tops. At the time, I saw CLAAS was making a machine for that. I went to the bother of ringing America, where the machines were, and they cost something like $750,000. My view is that machinery, such as combines or whatever, could be changed to get the flower part out on an elevator. That type of machinery will not work on peaty ground; there would be no point. It would have to be on tracks at the time of year hemp is cut because it would not be dry enough. Has anything progressed on that? My memory is that at the time most people were taking the flower and then cutting the other part. It was the grace of God whether or not people got what they had cut on the ground. They might be twisting and turning it but they might never get it. Has anything progressed that way?

I presume the representatives are talking about a plan for where we are going with hemp. At present, it seems to be individuals, in fairness to them, doing their own thing and creating their own markets without any help anywhere. It needs an awful lot, such as one big operator or co-op coming in to set up the infrastructure that everyone can feed their stuff into for a while or something like that. Ms Allen referenced a High Court case. Will she tell me what is involved? Is she saying that Ireland is basically in contradiction of all European law and not in compliance with the rest of Europe? She also mentioned a High Court case. Have the representatives talked to companies in other countries? They talked about retrofitting, insulation and that 5 acres builds a house. I presume they were talking about the stem part of the hemp plant. Are there any companies doing that in order that the likes of us could see how it is done or what is involved in it in other parts of the world? Those are my questions. Thanks once more for coming in.

That is a lot of questions. The court case is up for review in July so we will not get into that. We will not pass any comment on it.

Ms Kate Carmody

I will start with the Deputy's second question. We are a co-operative with 262 shareholders. All we need is the investment and grant aid to get going. We have done a lot of research. I am a member of a working group at European level where we know the products are all being made in Europe. I have seen some of them in Holland and so on. We do not need to reinvent the wheel.

To go back to the issue of peaty ground, there is a lot of drained peatland where I am in north Kerry that, it could be said, created Kerry Co-op.

Ms Kate Carmody

Yes, around Listowel. A lot of the ground around Moyvane or whatever is very heavy.

The beauty of hemp is that it is not set until May. The best crop I ever had I set on 21 May and it was off the ground by the end of August. It sets within a short window, which is the reason it sits as a rotational crop. We have had machinery designed but we do not have the money. It is the lack of funding and grant aid that is holding us back. We do a share release to our members to get investment. I recently finished a submission with my board on the new co-operative legislation to allow agencies such as Enterprise Ireland to be brought in to put in place all of the infrastructure. If we had the right policy, we could have it there within a year or two. I reckon it would turn this country on its head.

Will Ms Carmody confirm it is a three-month growth period from sow to harvest?

Ms Kate Carmody

Yes. It is then rested for a further two weeks on the ground until red. It can be harvested when green by some of the big machinery. I am concerned about the farmers on the western seaboard of Ireland. Everything is moving east. We do not want that. Even Kerry went east. That horrified us. We need to reinvent our rural communities. People love the idea of hemp flax. In Belgium they create Lego-style building blocks from hemp. The Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, will approve them for use here in construction but we are not allowed to build them here because we cannot get the infrastructure and the money.

Is Ms Carmody saying the Lego-type blocks that come into Ireland that allow for the use of concrete in between them are made of hemp?

Ms Kate Carmody

Yes. There are hemp blocks available now. Mr. Darcy can explain that better than me because he builds with them.

Mr. Declan Darcy

No concrete is used. They are precast hemp blocks made at a hemp line and they would be used as concrete blocks would be used. The other building method is shuttering on site.

Do you plaster or do anything else with them?

Mr. Declan Darcy

They are plastered on the inside and the outside, but on the outside either lime render plaster or cladding, which is a breathable material, has to be used.

How do hemp blocks compare in price with concrete blocks?

Mr. Declan Darcy

We are all aware of current import costs. If we had an indigenous industry and we were producing them here, the cost would be on par if not cheaper than the concrete block.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

On the fibre crop, you would not expect a wheat crop farmer to grow wheat for the straw and not sell the wheat. It is exactly the same with hemp. It is not just grown for the fibre. The whole value of the crop has to be taken. Farmers want the top value for the crop. Ms Carmody is correct that there is machinery that will strip the head for the seed or for the botanicals. To do that, a machine and other on-farm infrastructure is needed to deal with those tops as well. That all has to happen on the day. That is quite a significant investment, be it for a co-op, a group of farmers coming together or an industry that is going to come in and create markets for those things. Without the dual purpose, it is not very interesting to anybody and it just will not happen.

I welcome the witnesses. Great minds think alike in that Deputy Fitzmaurice has already covered many of the issues I had intended to raise to educate my own ignorance about the crop and its harvesting. Leaving aside the regulation, it appears we have a chicken-and-egg scenario here. Farmers will not grow unless there is a market and without the infrastructure and the processing capabilities there can be no market. That means we would have to bring in people. I think it is fair to say that.

Assuming we had the processing plants and the infrastructure, what would be the yield per acre in respect of hemp? As mentioned, hemp is a rotational crop. For the small farmer, would there be a good return for the crop once it left the farm gate? Such a farmer would not care where it went or the purpose for which it was processed. Would it be a viable proposition? Is a lot of acreage needed or could a farmer get a return from a small acreage?

Will the witnesses elaborate on the drain peat soil, whether it is the ideal soil for hemp or if it can be grown in uplands or other soils? In regard to hemp being a rotational crop, does it have to be rotated or could it be grown in one field or area continuously for four, five or six years?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Our experience is that it does not work very well when it is continuously grown on one field. It is much better to rotate it. It is particularly good on fresh ground or ploughed down grassland. In that way, a fantastic crop can be achieved. If a farmer wanted to reseed ground, like a dairy farmer he or she could get a catch crop of hemp.

On the question with regard to the values, the value of the straw is approximately €400 to €500 per acre. The seed would be worth approximately €1,500 per acre. If we can process the botanicals, then the value is substantially more at up around €2,000 to €2,500 per acre. That becomes very interesting for the farmer but the infrastructure needs to be in place for that.

Is Mr. McCabe speaking about the seed of barley or the seed of wheat being worth €1,500?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

No, the hemp seed.

Would Mr. Carew like to comment?

Mr. Eoin Carew

In 2019, I did a thesis on hemp grown as an alternative income for Irish farmers, mainly for the sustainable protein side. I come from a beef farming background in Tipperary. Seven growers in Ireland participated in the study which showed a 39.5% higher gross margin return in comparison with the nearest crop, which was winter wheat. On the question as to whether it is profitable, based on my calculations in 2019, there is a 39.5% higher gross margin but everything has gone up since then.

Importation was mentioned earlier. I presume that is processed materials such as the blocks mentioned. Are we bringing in hemp for protein? Is it non-processed hemp? It was mentioned it is being processed elsewhere and that it is acceptable here in a processed form, but it is not accepted that we could process it here.

Ms Chris Allen

We can process it here but we do not have large-scale processing facilities. Mr. McCabe builds houses with hemp blocks. He makes the product himself on his own farm. Customs and Revenue in Ireland are instructed by the Minister for Health not to allow any hemp to pass the Irish border because no amount of THC is allowed to enter Ireland.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

They allow fibre to be imported but not the hemp tops. The top part of the plant is not allowed to be imported.

Ms Chris Allen

According to the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, FSAI, the top part of the plant is allowed to be imported, which means the entire plant is allowed to be imported, but the Revenue Commissioners do not allow it.

For the farmer who makes the decision to sow five acres of hemp this May, would he or she be guaranteed sale of the crop?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

No.

It would be about hope.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes.

Ms Kate Carmody

I would like to comment on the peat soils. Some 200 years ago, they were identified by the Bog Commission as ideal for growing hemp and flax. To return to the dairy farmer, very good work was done in Holland with harvesting hemp in the green format, before it is matured. It was put into grass silage at a 5% incorporation rate and this increased the yield of dairy cows by 1,000 litres per cow. There is also the mobile biorefinery. Members may have heard of Biorefinery Glas. It could go from community to community and separate out the leaf and flower of the hemp plant, taking out the oil and protein and the sugar, leaving a cake-like dried cutting.

That could be put into silage. They have done experiments with that in Holland.

Is that because of the protein content of it?

Ms Kate Carmody

Yes, protein, and the oils. There are many other oils in it beside cannabidiol, CBD, and tetrahydrocannabinol, THC. There are many omega oils and they help health.

Mr. Declan Darcy

In relation to imports such as grain, there is a great deal of grain imported into Ireland for the seed oil and for the plant-based protein. Of the seed that is grown in Ireland, there is some processed here as well but there are bigger companies importing it from countries such as Canada, China and France.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

There is 10,000 tonnes of hemp seed being imported.

Mr. Declan Darcy

Given that the hemp seed is so high in protein and there are omega oils, as Ms Carmody says, essential fatty acids, many big food manufacturing companies are looking at it now for a plant-based protein.

If the witnesses had one or two asks here today, would it be for this crop to be recognised as an agricultural product and be taken away from the Department of Health?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes.

You would assume the rest, such as the infrastructure, would follow. If there is infrastructure, the growers will come on stream. The kernel of the problem is how it is being deal with.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes.

That is contrary to other European countries. On this occasion, we are ignoring EU regulation or the EU lead.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes.

Normally, in this committee we argue why can we not put on the green jersey and why must we bow and scrape and follow everything from the EU, and do we not have any kind of a viewpoint of our own. The witnesses are saying on this one occasion we have gone the opposite way to that of the EU regulation.

Mr. Declan Darcy

There are very successful businesses operating around Europe in the hemp industry and they are a great model, if the committee wants to go and see. France, Holland, Germany and Eastern Europe grow a lot which generates employment.

I welcome the witnesses here. It has been informative, if not a little disjointed. That is my observation. I read their submissions and I also took the time to research some of it.

I myself have grown hemp. I am a professional horticulturist. I worked in the National Botanic Gardens here in Dublin and in Kew and in Canada, and I lived in Greece and that is where I grew it. My experience of growing hemp was very simple. Why do we call it a weed? Effectively, you throw it on the ground. It must have strong contact with the soil, but it will grow in any soil. It is a weed. It is a handy crop and many would like to grow it. I speak with some experience on it. There are many varieties and types of hemp, as the witnesses will be aware.

Of course, we have the issue around the seed. There is a real market for growing quality seed. There are inferior seeds of hemp in Ireland. I visited places where they have seed and there is a real industry in growing, harvesting and exporting seed. Many other countries will want our seed and we need to look at this cleverly. There are many by-products, as Mr. McCabe has said. I have seen hempcrete and it is very successful. We have the opportunities for animal bedding. We see it in the bloodstock industry; I have seen it used successfully in Kildare. We see it in the poultry sector; I have seen it used effectively in Monaghan. I have seen it used for industrial matting. I know nothing about it in terms of mushroom production. We are always looking at new alternatives in mushroom production and mattings there. There are many opportunities. That is why the witnesses do not have to convince me. There is a wonderful opportunity there when you look at it in terms of fibre, food, feed, both human and animal, in terms of mixes and how that is calibrated out, and then, of course, you have the oil.

The biggest problem with this industry is people's lack of understanding of it. Effectively, hemp is a form of cannabis. Let us call a spade a spade. That is what it is. That is where there arises ignorance to some extent and concern about public health and all the issues around all of that. Of course, we are aware of the toxicity in terms of the seed and the flower and the restrictions, and how do we destroy the flowers of hemp. I refer to the role of the Garda Síochána in terms of licensing and permits. Of course, there is an element of all that seeping out, and there are problems. There are many people growing cannabis in Ireland, there are many people growing hemp and there are many people who are irresponsible. Having said all of that, there are many people who are very responsible. I see it as an exciting industry.

Teagasc has done some amount of work on it, but it is a State agency. It is cautious and that is the concern. Going away from this committee, our remit here is agriculture, food and the marine. Therefore, we must clearly be interested and particularly excited about the opportunities in terms of an alternative crop, or a short-term or intermittent crop. Clearly, we need to do much more work. We need to collaborate with our guests and others in terms of the work and seeing it.

They might touch on those issues. How can we educate people more about this crop? How can we bring people on board and allay their concerns? How can we entice farmers and demonstrate to them? Through education, in Teagasc and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, they will see this as a crop.

We are looking for new crops. We are looking for new agricultural industries. That is the really exciting part of this. Clearly, our guests have their own experiences of it.

I want to wrap up by saying that I see the benefits of rural regeneration. I see the benefits of the rural economy. I see all of the benefits, including the health benefits. We are all becoming so much more aware of what we eat. We are what we eat and what we consume. I see many other benefits and opportunities.

This must be regulated. Like alcohol or any substance, it must be in the hands of people who are highly experienced and responsible. That is a concern to us. That is where we have to go.

I would like our guests to talk briefly about the issue of seed, the production of seed, their knowledge of that production, and their knowledge of the quality and the certification of that seed because with that there are significant market opportunities. I thank our guests for their time. I believe in them. I believe in the product. I believe in the real opportunities for agriculture in terms of an additional crop.

Hemp is historic. It is interesting when you go back and research its history. It has enormous opportunities. I thank our guests for coming here.

I thank Senator Boyhan. Who wants to take those questions?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

On the seed, absolutely key is on-farm infrastructure. Like any grain, it has to be taken off the field and dried immediately. It has to go straight onto a drying floor. If it does not go onto a drying floor, it will heat. Unless the farmer has the infrastructure - some sort of drying system - it will not work. I agree there is an enormous market for the seed.

Senator Boyhan mentioned alcohol and the THC issue. I touched on that earlier. There are clear parameters in terms of what is the acute reference dose. In other words, what is too much and what is a good amount because at micro-dosing, it is an excellent food. There is a huge CBD market and let us embrace that market. I would say that is somewhere in or around 10 to 20 mcg per kg body weight per day, not the 1 mcg per kg per day that we are stuck with at present.

In fact, our company is paying for research. There is a European Industrial Hemp Association. There is a multicompany research project into novel foods that is ongoing at present. What is interesting is that the full-spectrum products, in other words, the products that contain THC, are actually safer than the CBD isolates.

As with alcohol, what is it? We do not want anybody to be feeling any side effects. That is not in the interests of the industry. We want everybody to know what is safe. It is a labelling issue. It needs to be correctly and properly labelled. That is a sensible conversation that needs to be had.

Ms Chris Allen

In 2023, we will have the reform of the CAP and we will have 0.3% THC in hemp in the field in Europe. We now have approximately 70 varieties of hemp. We will then have approximately 500. Of those 500, we will then have crops that are much more suited to Ireland's climate conditions.

Hemp is just wonderful in Ireland. It grows so much better here than anywhere else in the whole of Europe. The varieties that we grow have mainly been developed in France, for the French climate. Now, with the 0.3%, we will have crops that are triple use, so that farmers can get the stalk, the seed and the flowers and leaves out of one crop and we will have crops that are much better suited. Hopefully the seed quality that we see in Ireland will also improve.

Mr. McCabe mentioned novel foods. The EU designates certain foods as novel foods that cannot be put into any other category. Chia seed, for example, is classified as a novel food. The EU is talking about CBD and making that a novel food. That might be a bit of an Irish solution to an Irish problem but what is Mr. McCabe's view on it?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Does Ms Allen want to answer that?

Ms Chris Allen

Yes. All hemp foods were classified as traditional foods in Europe in 1997. In 2019 the EU's committee on novel foods had another look at hemp and classified it as a novel food. That means it falls under EU regulation 2015/2283. Ireland now adopts a completely different position. In Europe one needs to have a novel food authorisation from the European Commission. That costs somewhere in the region of €3 million. Our Irish companies and farmers who have been active in the sector for many years now have those applications under way with the European Food Safety Authority. The Food Safety Authority of Ireland, FSAI, has said that Ireland does not agree with Europe that hemp is a novel food. Hemp remains a traditional food in Ireland. However, the FSAI then said that under the novel food regulations, it is going to start removing some of the CBD products from the market in Ireland. Indeed, it has done that and it continues to remove CBD products that have authorisation in Europe. This means that whatever small amount of potential trade is left to this industry after all of the extraordinary regulation will be gone. There will be no potential for European trade from Ireland because the products to which Ireland does not apply the novel food regulations would require those regulations to be valid in European markets. The whole industry is completely unnavigable, even for me as a member of a representative body. It is very difficult to operate in this environment.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

It is difficult for people to understand what is going on.

Mr. Eoin Carew

Ideally we would develop our own seed here. I have contacted the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine about this but while the Department does engage, it says that the crop is too small. Last year 251 ha were grown in Ireland. A total of 77 licences were issued, according to the Health Products Regulatory Authority, HPRA. Every time I speak to officials in the Department they say it is a chicken and egg scenario. We made a protein submission two years ago to try to get hemp included for a protein payment. Even if it was only €100 an acre that would make a big difference because it would cover the cost of the seed. We also tried to have it included under GLAS but because hemp is not a nitrogen fixer it cannot be included with beans, peas and legumes.

Deputy Carthy is next.

Mr. Carew said 251 ha of hemp were planted last year. Technically this could fit in with two areas that take up an awful lot of this committee's time. The first is how agriculture in Ireland responds to our climate action obligations and the second is how we find alternative and new sources of income for our family farmers. I have met some of the witnesses before and it is great to see them again. I always find this conversation incredibly interesting, albeit confusing sometimes. It is intriguing in terms of the potential of this crop and how we can reach that potential. The big question that has never been answered is why there is resistance across a number of Government Departments even to the exploration of this as a product that could provide an alternative source of income and address so many of the other areas of concern.

I am interested in the possibility of the seed being used as animal feed because that is a key area of interest for a lot of farmers at the moment because of current feed prices. Of the 251 ha planted last year, how much tonnage of feed did that produce? Do the witnesses have a figure for that? What is the cost, per tonne, of that feed?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

None of it went into animal feed.

In terms of processing the crop to get the seed-----

Mr. Marcus McCabe

That would be done by cutting the tops off and making silage out of it. That would be the simplest thing because you would get the leaf and the seed together and then make silage out of it. That would be great fodder for a dairy farmer, for example and you would still have the straw as well. To be honest, however, the tops are probably too valuable to be used as an animal feed at the moment. If the processing was taking place, the tops would go into the human food chain.

It has been said to me many times that hemp is a magical crop in the context of carbon sequestration. One of the opening statements asserted that hemp sequesters, on average, 10 tonnes of net carbon dioxide per hectare. This means that 10,000 ha sown would reduce carbon emissions by 100,000 tonnes per annum in a four-month window. One of the speakers referenced the fact that with forestry, trees sequester carbon until such stage as they are cut down. What is the situation with this crop and sequestering carbon? When the soil is disturbed, is the carbon re-emitted? How does that work?

Ms Kate Carmody

I would like to answer that, as would Mr. Darcy as he builds with it. Hemp sequesters four times more carbon than trees per acre. If you take the fibre crop and make hempcrete or put it into insulation materials, you are locking up that carbon. I am actually doing that on my farm. I am restoring an old building and hopefully it will last for 100 years so that we get the benefit of the carbon sequestration.

In the product itself?

Ms Kate Carmody

Yes because you are not burning it. When you burn it, you let it all off again. Mr. Darcy will explain further.

Mr. Declan Darcy

It is a net carbon sink. The carbon is locked into the hempcrete material.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

That applies not just to hempcrete-----

Mr. Declan Darcy

Yes, it also applies to insulation materials and biocomposites.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Anything can be made from hemp so the possibilities are endless. However, we need the industry to process it and the farmers to grow it.

Mr. Declan Darcy

We are answering emails every day from farmers, all of whom are looking for another option. Every day we are getting emails from farmers looking for information about growing hemp. If the harvesting, baling, drying and cleaning equipment was there, farmers would jump on board, especially the younger farmers. Of the 77 licences that were issued last year, the majority were in Munster and Connacht and a lot of our inquiries are coming from there as well. People are looking for other options.

That is my experience as well, with many people asking about hemp. What we want to do is move beyond inquiring into delivery of the product. There has been a lot of emphasis on the Misuse of Drugs Act and how hemp fits in. If that Act was amended to allow up to a 0.3% content level, as per the European Court ruling, how would that work in practice? What difference would that make to running a farm? What difference would it make practically, if the processing facilities are still not in place?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

The levels are so low at the moment that it is effectively banned and we cannot operate.

What does that mean? When someone is cultivating a crop, does he or she have to get rid of the tops altogether?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

The dosage that the Food Safety Authority is allowing per person per day is so incredibly low that I would liken it to a thimble of shandy. No one wants that. There need to be sensible recommendations on allowable dosages. That is a problem right now. If we were in or around 0.2% and 20 mcg per kilogram of body weight, the industry would take off because cash would flow into it. Otherwise, there will be no investment. No investor or bank would put money into it.

Currently, what happens to the plant hemp? The stalk is taken for building materials.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes. We process the tops for hemp juice production.

Can that be done within the current legal framework?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

We were able to do it but the goalposts have moved into the next parish because there is an opinion that only 1 mcg - actually, it is 1 mcg, so we are only talking about a millionth of a gram - is permissible. CBD products have been taken off the shelves all over Ireland in recent months and hemp businesses are being closed down everywhere.

Mr. Declan Darcy

Regarding THC content, Poland and the Czech Republic have increased the level to 1%.

As opposed to 0.3%.

Mr. Declan Darcy

Yes.

And they are not in breach of European law.

Mr. Declan Darcy

No. The industry is booming over there.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

What is key is the dosage allowed to be consumed per day.

Mr. Eoin Carew

At the moment, if a farmer is harvesting a crop in a field that is a mile away from the farm yard, he or she could be stopped by the Garda while driving down the road and, because he or she would technically be transporting a drug, the farmer could be arrested.

That relates to the tops.

Mr. Eoin Carew

Yes.

Those tops could be used for animal feed.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes.

If a farmer gave it to his or her animals right now, though, it would essentially be an illegal drug.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes.

Ms Chris Allen

The European hemp community has been examining the question of CBD in animal feed. It is not clear how it is addressed by European regulations. I believe there will be a scientific review.

On building materials, does the hemp sector develop them itself?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes. We are importing because there is not enough hemp in Ireland.

How much is imported per year?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Our business is still quite small but we import approximately four containers per year because of Brexit.

Is it coming from Britain?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes.

If I were a farmer and wanted to grow hemp on 5 acres, would I be in a position to plant that amount using the imports?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes.

There would be a market for-----

Mr. Marcus McCabe

If local authorities were building hemp houses, everyone would be happy - they would be sequestering carbon, the farmers would be busy, the machinery makers would start getting orders and the whole thing would take off.

Ms Chris Allen

Hemp Federation Ireland has been working with an amazing community building project in Ireland. We are speaking with a company in Ukraine that has technology that can measure the project's entire carbon and energy values and building regulation requirements from seed to finished home. The project is ready to go and we would like to be able to present it as a research project and have the SEAI analyse the values and bring in the construction regulators to provide us with the standards for a hemp building. The project is incredible, yet we have to say "No" to all of these things. It is very sad.

The Chairman is looking to wrap up but I want to revert to what needs to happen and what this committee can help with. The first issue is the 0.3% and how we want the Misuse of Drugs Act to reflect the decision of the European Court of Justice. The second issue has to do with some form of processing. If every local authority decided in the morning that it would build a load of hemp houses, I take it that we would not have the hemp to do that in the short term.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

No.

We do not have the processing capacity. That would take time. How do we build that capacity? Who pays for it? The Government does not just give money to private companies. It has to be part of a much wider set of-----

It needs to be connected with the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Yes.

Ms Kate Carmody

To start, the most important element is to make industrial hemp a crop like any other crop. Anything that is on the EU's approved list should not require a licence. That would be a great starting point for the industry.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

The acute reference dose of THC per day needs to be reviewed. That is a major issue. It is nothing currently. The dose needs to be something sensible.

Ms Chris Allen

It is way too low. The European Food Safety Authority will eventually move on this because the European industry, including Irish businesses, is providing the world's largest ever study on THC toxicity in food. It is a significant global study. Our companies are providing information to a whole suite of studies.

When the study is published, will a difficulty arise because its independence might be questioned owing to it being funded by the sector?

Ms Chris Allen

No.

Mr. Marcus McCabe

It is an independent third-party study by ChemSafe, a very large company that undertakes these trials. The study is being done properly and is above board.

Ms Chris Allen

It goes to the European Commission to decide. It is not that we will be making the decision.

I get that.

There is something that I am trying to get my head around. Currently, there is nothing stopping the industry or anyone from producing the stalk, which is useful for construction and materials, but it is not being utilised. Is that because it is not worth it economically, given that the value of the top is being lost?

Mr. Marcus McCabe

Exactly.

That is the crux of the problem. At the same time, there is not much processing. What is there? I am trying to figure out whether we can do this.

Ms Chris Allen

Does the Deputy mean at this moment?

Can a twin-track approach be taken whereby we can work on the issues around the Misuse of Drugs Act while also developing processing capacity in respect of the stalk? How would we do that? What is the magic bullet, if there is one?

Ms Kate Carmody

I would like to make a brief comment about being a farmer. There is use in the stalk for a farming system, for example, bedding materials and decontaminating land. Mr. Darcy has some interesting figures for the committee.

Mr. Declan Darcy

In terms of processing facilities, we looked at there being four regional hubs and one centralised hub. Some €8 million to €9 million would be needed for them.

For five factories.

Mr. Declan Darcy

Yes. It would be €1.5 million for each regional hub and €2 million to €3 million for a centralised hub to process the necessary amount of hemp to get the industry to where it should be.

The sugar beet model.

Mr. Declan Darcy

Exactly.

That is what I was thinking.

Mr. Declan Darcy

Hemp has a taproot like sugar beet as well.

When we discuss hemp, it is never uninteresting. There is a great deal of work for the committee in this. It is not a question of forcing anyone to move from another sector into hemp growing. Rather, it complements many other sectors.

Mr. Declan Darcy

Yes.

It could be the difference between someone being a part-time and full-time farmer.

Mr. Eoin Carew

I wish to mention the protein levels. Seed cake is 33.5% protein.

It is a perfect Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio. It is also full of essential fatty acids.

Is that for food?

Mr. Eoin Carew

Yes. The oil is 27% protein and can be put in salads and used to make hummus for example. It is very tasty.

Mr. Carew said he was from Tipperary. Is he from Dundrum?

Mr. Eoin Carew

No, but my sister lives in Dundrum.

I thought that was you-----

No canvassing at committee meetings.

The Chairman is from mid-Tipperary and so we said we would get into the west.

I thank the witnesses for participating in today's meeting. It was extremely informative for us and we discussed many issues. As others have said, this crop has potential. We have serious targets to meet on emissions reductions and carbon sequestration. This crop has potential to contribute to that without impacting on any other sectors. In our private meeting next week, we will have discussions to see what we can do to try to help the stakeholders in this industry. It does not make sense to have an agricultural crop being stuck in the Department of Health and it will not make progress while it is there. I thank the witnesses for their very educational contributions to the meeting today. We will discuss it next week in private and we will see where we can make progress on that industry.

The joint committee adjourned at 8.12 p.m. until 5.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 2 March 2022.
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