I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Noel Ahern, who is here to speak on the national drugs strategy. I welcome also his officials. I invite the Minister of State to make a ten minute presentation which will be followed by a question and answer session. I understand the Minister of State is taking oral questions in the Dáil today so he may feel he is covering the same ground.
National Drugs Strategy: Ministerial Presentation.
Thank you. I am glad of the opportunity to discuss with members of the committee the state of progress of the national drugs strategy.
On a point of information, is it possible to have a copy of the Minister of State's speech?
It is being copied and is on its way.
As members will be aware, the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs has overall responsibility for co-ordinating the implementation of the strategy, which was launched in May 2001. The strategy brings together all the key players involved in drugs policy in Ireland and aims to tackle the problem in a comprehensive, thorough and integrated way. The strategy has 100 individual actions under the four pillars of supply reduction, prevention, treatment and research. Supply reduction involves mainly the Garda, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and customs; prevention involves the Department of Education and Science; treatment involves the Department of Health and Children and the health boards; and research involves the national advisory committee.
Progress under the strategy is monitored in a number of different ways. The interdepartmental group on drugs, which I chair, meets regularly in conjunction with the national drugs strategy team to assess progress being made in achieving the targets set out in the strategy. Any obstacles by any agency or Department to its implementation are brought to light at these meetings. Six monthly progress reports are made to the Cabinet Committee on Social Inclusion, which is chaired by the Taoiseach. On the issue of progress to date, considerable headway has been made in increasing the number of methadone treatment places. The number of places at the end of December 2003, the latest date for which confirmed figures are available, was 6,883. In the mid-1990s, there were 1,350 places. The equivalent figure at the end of 2,000 was 5,000. There has been a steady increase in the numbers coming forward for treatment.
The ten regional drugs task forces have been established throughout the country during the past six to nine months. They are currently mapping out the patterns of drug misuse in their areas, as well as the range and level of existing services, with a view to better co-ordination and examining what gaps exist.
The Department of Health and Children launched a national awareness campaign in May 2003. The campaign features television and radio advertising supported by an information brochure and website, all designed to promote greater awareness and communication about the drugs issue. The new phase has recently been on television.
Garda operations continue to result in significant drug seizures with an estimated street value of approximately €49 million seized in 2002. For the first nine months of 2003, the value of significant drug seizures by the Garda is estimated at approximately €86 million. Those figures can vary because there can be a huge shipload of drugs in one year and many smaller ones in another year. The total number does not reflect the effort of the Garda but what happens in the year. Both the Garda and the customs authorities remain well on track in achieving their drug seizure targets as set out in the national drugs strategy.
Guidelines to assist schools in the development of a drugs policy have also been developed and were issued to all primary and post-primary schools in May 2002. The Department of Education and Science implemented substance misuse prevention programmes in all schools in the local drugs task force areas during the academic year 2001-02. In addition, the social, personal and health programme has been on the curricula of all primary and secondary schools since September 2003.
The Department has also responsibility for the work of the 14 local drugs task forces established in 1997, most of which are in Dublin with one in Cork, the areas with the worst level of drug misuse. To date, the Government has located or spent approximately €65 million to implement up to 500 projects contained in the two rounds of plans of the task forces. In addition, over €11 million has been allocated under the premises initiative, which is designed to meet the accommodation needs of community based projects, most of which are in local drugs task force areas.
As I mentioned, prevention is one of the four pillars of the national drugs strategy and in this context the work done through the young people's facilities and services fund is very important. The fund, which is run by the Department, was established in the late 1990s to assist in the development of facilities, including sport and recreational facilities, and services in disadvantaged areas where a significant drug problem exists or has the potential to develop. The idea is that there is little point in telling young people not to get involved in drugs unless they are pointed in the direction of an alternative healthy lifestyle. That fund was aimed at people at risk in the ten to 21 years age group.
Approximately €68 million has been allocated or spent under that fund to support approximately 350 capital and services projects. Many of those projects are making a major difference in the lives of young people and some very good work is being done in the communities for which they are catering. Projects submitted under round two of the fund are currently being evaluated by the Department and I hope some announcements will be made in that regard over the next few months.
It is vital that our drugs policy is based on and continues to be informed by valid, timely and comparable data. In this context members will be familiar with the National Advisory Committee on Drugs, which was established in 2000 to advise the Government on the prevalence, prevention, treatment and consequences of problem drug use. The committee has produced many important pieces of research over the past number of years and this year it has a full work programme on hand.
We are half way through the seven year term of the strategy and it is timely and appropriate to reflect on the progress to date. The strategy provides for an independent evaluation of the effectiveness of the overall framework by the end of 2004. This will examine the progress being made in achieving the overall key strategic goals set out in the strategy. Furthermore, it will enable priorities for further action to be identified and a refocusing of the strategy, if necessary. Work is beginning in the Department to initiate this review, which will take place later in the year.
I wish to reiterate the comments made by the Taoiseach over the past week that the Government remains firmly committed to dealing with the drug problem. It is important to note that the provision for drugs services in the Department's Estimates this year has increased by 5% over last year's figure, to €33.5 million. That is a broad outline of some of the main features.
I congratulate the Minister on the 5% increase in the money being spent. In terms of the constituency I come from, we could be disappointed that we are half way through the seven year strategy and only six months into the regional format of support services for the task force areas but we understand that dealing with the poor first and working out beyond that will help everybody. In that implied criticism, there is also support.
Is the money in the young people's facilities and services fund just for the LDTF areas or for the regional task force areas? The Minister of State talked about sport and recreation. Given that our other hat in this committee concerns arts, sport and tourism, does the funding incorporate the arts?
The issue of co-ordination is very difficult. We talk about linking the arts to education and vice versa but the reality is that the co-ordination on the ground is not as pronounced as we would like. Is the Minister of State satisfied with the level of co-ordination between the Department of Health and Children and the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform? Perhaps the Judiciary comes into this also in terms of the length of sentencing and so on. Is the Minister happy with the co-ordination at a cross-Border level? I am aware that many fines are issued and I welcome the Minster’s comments that the gardaí and customs are on track in achieving their drug seizures targets at a regional and cross-Border level. We know that from the report.
Another point that is constantly made in respect of drugs is that the biggest drug problem is with alcohol, which is not covered under the national drugs strategy. As public representatives we are constantly berated at public meetings about underage drinking and asked what is being done about the problem. At a recent meeting I attended someone asked what was being done about the drugs problem and people said that alcohol abuse, not drugs, was the issue because it is leading to all sorts of anti-social problems. I accept there is a drugs problem in almost every town and village but will the Minister of State indicate whether there will be any move to incorporate the problem of alcohol abuse under the umbrella of drug abuse? It is crazy to have a co-ordinating body in place to deal with the problem of drugs and not to incorporate alcohol.
I welcome the Minister of State and thank him for his presentation. The problems outlined are of major significance in every constituency. My constituency in Kildare is close to Dublin and I compliment the gardaí on the effectiveness with which they are apprehending many of the major drug barons and on the amount of drugs seized over the past number of weeks. Only in the past few days a person was caught in north Kildare with €2.5 million worth of drugs.
The problem is being experienced in Dublin and the major cities but the drug barons are now moving out into the hinterland of Dublin and other cities and large towns which they are using as bases for the sale of illicit drugs.
The kernel of dealing with this problem is education. If we can educate the children to be aware of the dangers of drugs, that will remain with them as teenagers and on into adulthood. That is the secret to addressing this problem.
Reference was made to the link between drug abuse and alcohol abuse. If someone is abusing alcohol, the next stage is often the abuse of drugs. There is a direct link between the two problems but, unfortunately, the current generation appears to want to experiment in that regard and it is having a terrible effect throughout the country. I would like the Minister to outline, when replying, whether there is now a trend, as appears to be the case, towards the development of a drug culture throughout the country due to the drug barons moving to greenfield sites on a continuous basis and because of the enormous amounts of money that can be generated from drugs. Drug barons see that as the way forward. They are stretching the gardaí, who are trying to prevent this terrible addiction, to the limit. We must give the gardaí all the necessary supports.
Through prevention and education we can try to ensure that we get on top of this problem. It will be difficult; no one is more aware of that than myself. From my experience of listening to young people, this is a problem that is on the increase, regardless of what the Minister said about going forward. There has been a dramatic increase in the use of methadone treatment from the early 1990s to the present day. I tabled a parliamentary question to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform some years ago inquiring about the number of illegal substances available. It started off with two or three illegal substances being available in the 1980s, but as of the date of my question there were some 29 available. One can imagine the difficulties the gardaí face in trying to determine these 29 illegal substances available to the drug barons to sell to young people, which is a major problem. The answer is to provide further funding to the gardaí and to educate children and teenagers about the threat posed to society by the abuse of alcohol and, subsequent to it, the misuse of illegal substances. The Minister of State might address that area. He might also give an overview of the young people's facilities and services fund. If he does not have that information to hand, he might supply it to us, as I would appreciate if we had more information on it.
I welcome the Minister of State to the meeting. I read his report and I have a number of questions. I concur with the Chairman that tying alcohol abuse to the national drugs strategy is critical because in some cases alcohol alone is the problem but in an increasing number of other cases young people are mixing alcohol with heroin and cocaine and, as a result, are causing havoc in our community.
I refer the Minister of State to An Overview of Cocaine Use in Ireland, to which he wrote the introduction. In commenting on it in a press release, the NACD stated that the perceptions of cocaine as a safe drug need to be addressed, given the level of risk behaviours associated with sharing equipment for injecting, snorting and smoking. It also stated that there is no drug of substitution to treat cocaine dependence. It further stated that structured programmes are needed with core services such as individual or group counselling and that drug treatment services across the sectors face an enormous challenge in managing problem cocaine use among the opiate drug treatment population.
I did not hear the Minister of State refer to the cocaine problem. What is he doing to tackle it, what is happening in regard to the national drugs strategy, and what strategies are in place to deal with it? I refer him to actions 49, 51 and 59 outlined in the national drugs strategy. They refer to the putting in place of a coherent drugs strategy particularly to deal with young people. That is a key issue he must address. If he has read the Drugs Crisis in Local Communities by the Dublin CityWide group, as I am sure he has, he will be aware it is concerned about this issue. I would like him to comment on that issue. I appreciate that other members wish to contribute and, therefore, I will be brief in raising a few other issues. There was an article in The Irish Times yesterday on methadone treatment for the under 20s and the concern of some groups in that regard. A parliamentary question was tabled on that matter today but it was not reached in the House as we were dealing with other matters. Will the Minister of State comment on the progress he is making in the treatment of those under 20, which is covered under action 18 in the national drugs strategy? Mr. Cumberton made the point that the under 20s need to have an alternative to methadone in the context of drug treatment. Groups are particularly concerned about it and I ask the Minister of State to comment on it.
Another issue is the experience of drug abuse among Travellers. Traditionally, Travellers have not used heroin but that has changed dramatically. There is a clear sense that drug users are marginalised within the Traveller community. There are few Travellers accessing services and they have many fears around not being respected by other clients or service providers. There is an identified need for a culturally appropriate service for Travellers, which needs to include flexibility in regard to address and local residency.
Another issue I wish to raise is the impact of the drugs supply on communities. I particularly acknowledge, as I believe the Minister of State and other members have, the tremendous work gardaí are doing in seizing drugs. Hardly a day passes that they do not seize drugs. I welcome their activities, but the problem is that the communities on which the drugs supply is impacting do not have sufficient gardaí in place to deal with the problem. It was a specific objective of the national drugs strategy to increase the level of Garda resources in local drugs task force areas by end 2001, building on lessons emanating from the community policing forum model. How many new community policing models are in place? How many extra gardaí are in place in these communities to deal with the specific problems of drug dealing on the streets, the violence associated with drugs and the fact that in many parts of the city almost every weekend, but thankfully not so many recently although there was an incident last weekend, drug dealers are taken out and executed by other drug dealers? Crime is rampant. There is a fortune to be made from drugs. We are seizing drugs coming into the country, but we are not active enough in the community in terms of community policing and there is not a strong enough Garda presence.
I welcome the Minister of State. We have many problems of which alcohol abuse is one, but people do not seem to realise the major problem posed by drugs. Drug abuse is a serious and sad problem. While alcohol abuse is a major problem, it is difficult to realise that it is such a major problem in regard to drugs. One might see a young person drinking only a bottle of larger and then begin to act crazy - that amount of alcohol would not drive one to act crazy. People are not hard enough on those who take drugs. When people are caught with drugs, it is not good enough for them to say they had them only for their own use. When a person is caught in possession everybody connected with that person should be investigated because members of the public are not sufficiently vigilant. They see what is happening under their noses but do not report it. They are not sufficiently aware of the problem posed by drugs. They believe it is not their problem and that it is the problem of the guy next door if he has a drug problem. However, the problem concerns all of us because of the depredation, damage and harm it is doing to our health to that of the people concerned.
Most people who take drugs live in complete and utter misery, are threatened all their lives and live in fear of being killed if they do not pay when the drug dealer calls for his or her money. Serious situations arise from nothing because of people taking ecstasy tablets. A young guy is told that if he sells ten tablets, he will get €100. He is given five tablets for his own use and if he sells them, he will get €50. He takes the tablets and before he knows it he is addicted. If he can still hold down his job, he will deal with his money lender and his drug dealer on the evening he gets paid.
The drugs problem has grown out of all proportion even though the agencies are doing their best, but we need to increase awareness of the depth of the problem among members of the public to ensure they help in addressing it. It is sad to walk the streets of a town or village in the middle of the day and see young people who appear quite normal and pleasant, but if one were to ask about a young man one sees on the street, one would be told that while he seems a nice fellow during the day the other night he was acting crazy and berserk. The place is full of them - it is so sad. These young people are gone berserk on drugs. We should not cod one another. I am tired saying that a young man just flips the odd time for, example,; he flips when he abuses drugs.
I do not know how to get the message across. There is a great deal of advertising and many awareness campaigns but people still do not appear to get the message about the danger. They still want to take a chance by taking drugs. We will have to get the message across that drugs cannot be tolerated under any circumstances. If people saw the horrific drug related injury suffered by a young man who I saw recently, they would say, "Stop, it is not worth it". It must stop. Everybody connected with even a small seizure of drugs, and the person involved, should come under scrutiny. That will make other people more vigilant. If it is going to cause them grief, they might be quicker to look for the drugs and, perhaps, report it. Nobody will do anything until it hurts. Until those who do not take drug feel it will affect their lives, they will not bother doing much about it.
I welcome the Minister's remarks and the work he is doing. He is doing his best. He has his feet on the ground and is fully aware of the problems, having been in politics all his life. I wish him well. Is there any way to get the message across that this is serious and that there is no way out? Everybody deserves a chance and I got many chances during my life.
The Deputy is on his last chance.
I hope it is not my last. However, it is off-putting to read that somebody gets off for an offence because it is his first offence, he did not mean to do it but got into bad company and that it was only for himself, when everybody knows he has been doing it for up to six years. Let us be realistic about this. Everybody I have encountered who is involved in this is in it up to his neck. There is a charade in the courts whereby people say an individual was unlucky and that he or she would be all right if he or she did not go to the wrong place and meet the wrong person. People will have to be more serious about the problem and hammer those who are involved.
The Deputy's question was well contextualised.
With regard to supply and catching the suppliers, people often ask if we are putting too much effort into trying to block distribution when we need to focus on demand. The attitude is that if one wants it, one can get it. What does the Minister of State advise me to say to people who make that comment?
There was a drugs drought in Navan for a year or 18 months after the murder of Veronica Guerin. The supply stopped and one could not get drugs. People in Navan who took drugs had to travel further and would eventually get a small amount of what they were seeking. The main supply of drugs to towns such as Navan stopped. Why did that happen? What was done then that is not being done now? Perhaps that is the responsibility of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform rather than the responsibility of the Minister. What is the opinion of the Minister?
Mixing alcohol and drugs is a regular occurrence. It is common now for a young man to bring a bag of speed with him and pop it into his pint. He can do this openly in the pub, which is scary. Such people are not caught and are not going to be caught. Most people do not consider them a danger but they are a danger to themselves and they will progress to other drugs. What can be done to stop this? For most of last year we debated alcohol, alcohol related crime and violence on the streets. I am convinced violence is caused mainly by drugs and to a lesser extent by alcohol, with people mixing both by snorting cocaine and throwing some speed into a pint. We allowed ourselves to become more involved in the debate on alcohol rather than on drugs. Are we afraid to talk about drugs or to face the facts? What is the problem? The message is not getting through.
I know people who have trained as nurses and doctors and other people who are in ordinary or top jobs who mix drink and drugs at the weekend. They should know better but they do not. What plan is in the drugs strategy to get through to them? The new anti-smoking advertisement shows what can be squeezed from a smoker's artery. That is an effective advertisement but I have seen nothing similar to discourage people from using drugs. Why have I, a young person, avoided drugs? It is purely because I figured that if I took them, I might like them. Fear of becoming addicted stopped me taking them. There was no big advertisement or education campaign that conveyed the message to me to avoid drugs. I wonder if the message is getting through to people. Much work is being done, and I do not blame the Minister for the problem because he has only been in his job for a couple of years, but it is time to have a proper debate on this.
The National Youth Federation and other groups working with youth in various towns do good work but they do not have enough resources. They get some resources from the Department of Health and Children, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and probably through the national drugs strategy but no single Department guarantees funding to them each year. They have to raise money through golf classics, poker classics and so forth to pay their staff. The service they provide for young people is most effective. There is a shortage of funding and the cutbacks in community employment mean they are losing the staff they were allocated through FÁS. The plug is quietly being pulled on these groups, which are struggling.
To what groups is the Deputy referring?
It is mainly the youth federations. There are also other groups that are partly funded by different Departments but no single Department takes overall responsibility, tells them they are doing a great job and ensures they are looked after. They are getting bits of funding from everywhere and they cannot do their jobs.
Many of the groups that are looking after young people finish work at 4 p.m. or 5 p.m. The problems arise after that. Few youth centres are open 24 hours a day where a young person can pop in, hang around with his friends, chat and so forth. Unless there is somebody in charge to get the key, open the centre and sign the form to provide insurance cover, there is no place to go. Young people end up doing other things such as taking drink or drugs. I am probably stretching things in referring to drugs but they are all the same. People just want a building in which they can congregate. It could be a non-alcoholic bar or a coffee shop. The main thing is that it is open and it will not cost people a fortune to sit there and chat with their friends. It would have an amazing effect if there were people staffing these places, or shelters, who would talk to and advise young people. It is not in the strategy but the issues are linked.
Many good points have been made in this meeting but I believe we are underestimating the problem. The Minister is not; he is aware of it. However, the public is underestimating what is happening with drugs. The problem is much bigger than we think. A great deal happens behind closed doors, at parties and so forth, and many people think it will never affect them. However, five or six years of taking soft drugs at weekends does have an effect. I have seen people of my age spend the last ten years doing this. They thought they were doing no harm and that everything was grand but they are suffering now. It is my job to pass that story to other people but how can we convey the message to the public more clearly? Perhaps there is no answer.
The drugs culture is raping small towns and villages. What protection is in place when a son or daughter from a good family, whose parents do not know they are involved with drugs, is caught with the drug, brought to court and fined? The baron is not paid his money and the heavies will come to the family's door and demand it. If the money is not paid the house will be burnt down. What protection is available to the good parents who do not know their children are involved in the trade? What affect will the recent downgrading of cannabis to a class B drug in the United Kingdom have in this country? Young people caught with small amounts of cannabis resin for their own use should be fined on the spot, given a warning and only brought to court for a second such offence. In that way, the courts would not be clogged up as much as they are now.
The drugs culture is ruining this country. Residents of housing estates know that people are calling to a supplier's house at every hour of the day and night but how is it that such menaces cannot be caught? The gardaí can catch people with small amounts of drugs and will bring them to court and charge them but they cannot catch the suppliers. In some cases if one is convicted of a drugs-related crime, even if it concerns only a small amount of cannabis, one cannot qualify for a local authority house. The suppliers, however, live in local authority houses and are getting away with it. How come that is happening when we know who they are?
Part of the reason young people are taking drugs is the increasing price of alcoholic drink. According to feedback I am getting, they cannot afford to drink, but drugs are available more cheaply. They are either switching to drugs, or mixing drugs with drink to get high more quickly. Due to the stress and boredom of modern life, many people in disadvantaged areas choose drugs to get a thrill or to switch off. In Australia, one can get a thrill by bungee jumping or hang-gliding off a mountain but we do not have those luxury sports here.
It is an interesting concept that we should start bungee jumping here.
I am deadly serious.
As a former teacher, I know about this. When I was at school we would sit on a bed of nails if we thought we were going to get a video at the end of the day. Now if the teacher did a cartwheel in front of the children, they would ask what was wrong with her. In the recent past, the Clerk and I attended a drugs conference in Sweden. The people at that conference made it quite clear that we should not be complacent because Ireland is very close to the top of the table as regards consumption of certain illegal drugs. What is happening here is being replicated across Europe and that message needs to get out.
The Criminal Assets Bureau was seen to be a strong presence and it all comes back to the murder of Veronica Guerin. Does CAB have the same visibility as it did before? I know it is still operating but does it receive the same coverage so that people will be aware that if they are caught they will be in serious trouble? I suppose the major operators do know they will be in serious trouble. Too often, persons caught and fined €50 for driving at 35 mph in a 30 mph zone finds that if they had been caught with ecstasy tablets they would get the same fine. There have been such cases in my own area and people have asked whether speeding and possession of illegal drugs can be considered as equal crimes.
Perhaps the Minister of State would like to respond to the comments and questions raised.
I accept that drug abuse is not just a Dublin issue. It may have started there but it has long since spread elsewhere. That is why regional drugs task forces have been established under the national drugs strategy. A year or 18 months ago, I met people from rural areas who were running small anti-drugs groups but they were not part of a bigger picture. I met a group from Donegal which was linked into a network in Derry because it did not have anything similar in its own area. The ten regional drugs task forces are currently linked to the health boards and are pulling together to map the existing services. No doubt they will come forward with plans in future to outline where the gaps are and what services need to be upgraded in their areas. First, however, they have to see what the drugs problem is, what services they have and what gaps exist. Initially, their task involves a collation of different State agencies, health boards and community groups to examine the scene locally.
The young people's facilities and services fund was linked to the local drugs task forces. Before the regional drugs task forces were even thought of, some grants for resources were given to provincial areas, including Limerick, Galway, Waterford and Carlow. The fund is designed fundamentally for the 14 drugs task force areas. No doubt, in future, Dublin based people will be trying to hold onto it because there has been a lack of facilities in disadvantaged areas. The argument may be made later that our policy might not always hold up but, four or five years ago, we provided some resources to the four areas I mentioned.
The problem with disadvantaged estates in Dublin, particularly those constructed during the 1970s and 1980s, is that they comprise houses and nothing else. Those huge sprawling estates had no services and went through a bad time with unemployment. Certain areas had no infrastructural facilities to cater for the needs of young people. Some €68 million has now gone into providing such infrastructure, although not all of it is capital. If one builds a good youth centre or a sports hall, it follows that a voluntary committee cannot run it and that professional management is required. The results of funding that was allocated four or five years ago are only coming on stream now. Some very good facilities, involving big investment, have been completed or are close to completion in Cabra, Donnycarney Finglas and the inner city. They will require professional management teams, including youth workers.
The drugs strategy was created to deal with heroin addiction, which was the big problem in disadvantaged parts of Dublin. The figures on that show some degree of hope. Last year the national drugs advisory committee carried out the first detailed, all-Ireland survey on heroin abuse. It was based on police records, treatment numbers and other hospital data. The survey estimated that the number of heroin users in the country is approximately 14,500, of which 12,000 are in Dublin. This represents a slight decrease of 500 to 1,000 in Dublin, compared to an earlier survey carried out three or four years ago. The hopeful sign was that when analysed by different age groups it emerged that there were fewer young males, in particular, in the 15 to 30 or 15 to 34 age group, hooked on heroin in Dublin than had previously been the case. Those addicted to heroin were, therefore, going through the age stream and becoming slightly older.
The number of addicts, 14,500, is significant. Approximately 7,000 of these are on methadone treatment, which is in line with the position abroad where the best possible scenario is to treat approximately 50% of addicts. However, there are fewer young men, in particular, becoming addicted and even in disadvantaged areas heroin does not have a good image any more. People see it as something of a loser's drug. I cannot report that these young men have all taken up playing football. We are not codding ourselves and we know they might be dabbling in other drugs they might see as more recreational in nature. However, the fact that more 18 to 20-year olds are moving away from heroin use shows that we have had some success in getting our message across. Heroin is the most "in your face" drug. The detrimental effects of the drug on the health of addicts are more apparent more quickly. Such effects are less easy to identify in respect of other drugs.
The statistics encouraged us to some extent. Not everyone is taking drugs. An all-Ireland survey was carried out last year to gauge the picture in respect of overall drug abuse in which 8,500 people were interviewed in depth. People from 15 to 64 years of age were examined and 19% indicated they had taken illegal drugs at least once in their lives.
What were the percentages for the different generations?
They were not hugely different. For the younger age bracket, the percentage was 26% or 27%. Just under 6% admitted to having used drugs in the past year and approximately 3% had taken them in the past month. This figure comes from the official survey and was not gathered and compiled by people wearing Garda uniforms. Even in the younger age groups, the percentages were higher but not greatly so. The highest figure was the 28% of people in the 25 to 34 age bracket who admitted to having used drugs at some stage in their lives.
The survey was carried out in a professional manner, as laid down by the best practice of European drugs bodies, and nobody tried to doctor it in any way. I accept there is a problem and I am not trying to suggest otherwise.
Reference was made to alcohol, which is a problem. Before becoming Minister of State, I was a member of a drugs task force in Ballymun. If seven or eight years ago one suggested to a drugs task force in Dublin that drink was a problem and that the task force should involve itself in that area, the members would go mad and inform one that one was watering down the seriousness of drug abuse. They were of the opinion that drugs were ruining their neighbourhoods, etc., and to link the problem with mere drink would in some way remove the focus from drug abuse. That attitude has changed dramatically. The task forces, particularly the regional drugs task forces, now recognise that problems with alcohol are as bad as those relating to illegal drugs.
Responsibility for dealing with alcohol lies with the Minister for Health and Children. It is used by everybody from whatever age one wishes to pick upwards, across all social classes and age groups, and is not confined to disadvantaged areas. There are major difficulties attaching to the misuse of alcohol and the Department of Health and Children has a strategy relating to this area. Perhaps in ten years' time strategies on alcohol and drugs will be linked. I accept that this sort of attitude is emerging in the community, whereas in the past the position was different.
Our drugs task force has stated that there should be links between the two policies and that there should be cross-representation on committees and working groups considering aspects of both problems. Let us consider the four pillars to which reference is continually made. I accept that supply reduction relates exclusively to drugs. However, prevention involves education and awareness campaigns and it does not matter whether one is talking about drink or drugs in this regard. For example, awareness and education programmes, particularly those in schools, relating to both areas stress prevention. These programmes also emphasise the need for people to respect their bodies and look after their health. People feel they are immortal and it is difficult to tell them that they should not use drugs because they will die. However, people do sometimes listen and one can get through to them. At the prevention level, the two policies or strategies overlap.
I looked at some figures from a survey - it might not have been the greatest of its kind - carried out last year on the use of cannabis. University students interviewed for the survey indicated that they had no problems with cannabis, that they could easily dabble with it on Friday nights and that it had no effect whatever on them. However, when matters were teased out further, these individuals indicated that by April, with exams on the horizon, they put cannabis aside in order to concentrate on their studies. The students displayed bravado in respect of their use of cannabis, indicated that it is no big deal and harmless and that it was acceptable to dabble in it from October to April. However, they also recognised that they would have to give it up in April and some indicated concern that they might not be able to do so. The students indicated that they wanted to be on top form when they sat their exams in May or June and that they wanted their brains and memories to be functioning properly.
There is no doubt that the major danger lies in the area of poly-drug use, namely, that of alcohol and drugs. While there are two different strategies, they are linked on the prevention level. Governments, regardless of their make-up, and State agencies can do a certain amount, but what we must try to do is tell people about the dangers to themselves. It is not possible to have a policeman or health board nurse or doctor follow every young person. The main thing we are trying to do is make people aware of the dangers to themselves. That is the most fundamental part of our strategy. People must be responsible for their actions. The State will, by all means, help them and put the necessary strategies and services in place.
The Chairman stated that the regional drugs task forces are only beginning their work. It is similar to a political manifesto where everything cannot be done the day after the election. The regional drugs task forces are listed in the strategy, they have been established and they will come forward with their plans. We have not yet reached the halfway point of our term of office.
Reference was made to cocaine. When the drugs strategy was originally put in place, its focus was primarily on opiates such as heroin. Cocaine abuse is an increasing problem but it is totally different. Cocaine was always available but it was used primarily by the professional classes whereas, nowadays, younger people in disadvantaged areas are dabbling with it. However, cocaine use is not sweeping the country. A national survey indicated only 3% of the population has used cocaine. While these figures are considered to be a joke, the surveys are conducted professionally.
The figure for the 15-24 years cohort is 5.1%, which means that one in every 20 young people has taken cocaine. We should be proactive about this, not complacent. What is the Minister of State doing about this?
I accept that absolutely. If one goes to a club on a Saturday night, one may witness a greater usage of cocaine. Cocaine abuse is a cause of concern. There is a difference between cocaine and heroin. Much of the work in the strategy in recent years has gone into attracting heroin addicts to avail of methadone services. No substitute treatment is available for methadone. Part of the problem with cocaine abuse is people do not realise they have an addiction. However, heroin addicts inject the drug openly and suffer illnesses and other health problems. As I said previously, heroin is more "in one's face". It is more difficult to get cocaine addicts to realise they have a problem. They do not come forward for treatment because a substitute treatment is unavailable. However, counselling and behavioural therapy are available.
Cocaine addicts comprise only 1% of all drug addicts whereas in The Netherlands the figure is 30% and it is 19% in the UK. The Minister of State does not have a strategy that reaches out to cocaine users or is specifically directed at them to educate them. One to one contact is needed, which is expensive. He stated, "We should not underestimate the dangers from cocaine, particularly when it is mixed with alcohol as it makes people extremely aggressive and violent." Cocaine abuse is a serious problem and the Government is not dealing with this issue. It is on the backburner.
The Minister of State said the drugs strategy was geared towards a specific problem at a specific time, which may not be the problem currently. Is the national drugs strategy flexible enough to adapt and address current issues?
A national drugs strategy team has researched and reported on cocaine abuse. This issue must be dealt with and the Minister of State has not answered the question regarding what he will do.
I admitted it is an increasing problem and concern.
What is he doing about it?
We are encouraging people to come forward and this is part of the prevention model. The health boards and the Department of Health and Children are upskilling their counsellors and so on to address cocaine abuse. A specialised unit has been established in the city clinic in Dublin to assist cocaine addicts. The strategy is flexible and not set in stone. A significant number of professionals are working in the area of drug addiction and this allows for upskilling and slight changes in emphasis from heroin addiction to other addictions.
The basic seven year strategy will be evaluated by a professional external consultant this year and, if there is a need to change its emphasis significantly, it can be done. However, a new strategy is not necessary. A slight shift in emphasis may be needed, which acknowledges other issues have come to the fore that require more resources. I have seen the figures relating to Spain and The Netherlands to which the Deputy referred and I do not know whether they stand up——
They were published by an internationally reputable organisation and I obtained the document from the Minister of State's Department.
People are slow to recognise they have a problem with cocaine and, therefore, they are slower to come forward to seek counselling or behavioural therapy. Perhaps this has been a problem in Spain for a longer time and people realise they have a problem after four years rather than two but——
Young people use cocaine more than other age cohorts and heroin addiction has reduced among the same cohort. The Minister of State established a committee on drug treatment for under 18s, which was to report in June 2002. When will the committee report? What is the Minister of State doing to deal with this issue? Methadone is the only answer for young people and I asked earlier what he is doing in this regard.
That relates to the under 18 protocol. The committee has been frustratingly slow in coming forward with its report and this has been discussed by the interdepartmental group. It relates primarily to giving methadone to under 18s and whether that can be done without parental consent and so on.
The Deputy mentioned drug facilities. I accept the main emphasis over the past six or seven years was on heroin addiction and the problems it was causing in terms of criminal activity such as robbery, mugging, etc., as addicts tried to get money for their next fix. A number of drug-free facilities have been established but they are at the Cinderella stage. The main emphasis has been on giving addicts the opportunity to go on methadone to wean themselves off heroin on that basis.
The strategy says that once people are on methadone, a drug free option should be provided and places are available. However, the success rate of drug-free facilities is low. I have visited a number of residential facilities that provide drug-free places for 12 or 15 months but that is expensive. That is not a reason to neglect the provision of such places but the success rate of 12 month residential programmes is low. A number of addicts succeed at the second or third attempt but——
More needs to be done to deal with young people. I agree with the Minister of State that it is difficult for young people to take up these programmes. However, I have not witnessed a dynamic response to these issues. The soporific committee is asleep. What is happening?
I have been trying to inform the Deputy about what is happening.
Nothing is happening in this area.
There are alternatives to methadone such as buprenorphine and so on but the fundamental issue regarding under 18s is education and awareness. The issue is not about whether they are put on methadone or buprenorphine or whether addicts are sent away on 12 month residential programmes. The dangers of these drugs to their health in the long term must be pointed out to them and they must be offered alternative lifestyles. There is no point in telling them they should not get involved in drugs when there is nothing else for them to do. That is where the young people's facilities fund comes in.
Neither Deputy English nor myself have seen advertisements in this regard. There was a burst of publicity when the Minister for Health and Children announced a public relations campaign against drugs but we have not seen anything.
Advertisements are run on television every night.
I have not seen them for months.
Are they run before "Oireachtas Report"?
That is an awareness issue. It can be debated whether that is the proper way to target people anyway. It is a general advertising campaign aimed at everybody in their living rooms. It is backed up with more specific campaigns at the individual target group, schools being the biggest one. Fundamentally, that is where we will win or lose on this. To an extent, better treatment can be provided to people who are hooked on drugs. However, it is about targeting people in schools before they become addicts. It is not a case of us doing it all for them. We are simply making them aware of the dangers and giving them the self-confidence so they can take responsibility for themselves.
Taking up Deputy English's point, has the strategy used much peer work? When we were young, dry alcoholics or reformed drinkers would speak to school groups. Is the impact of listening to these stories from someone of the same age used in the strategy's campaign?
There are different community projects like that on the ground such as the young people's facilities fund. One young person informed me recently that their class was taken to Mountjoy Prison. There are arguments for and against reformed drug addicts speaking to young people's groups. However, different approaches have been tried. There are 1,100 recovering drug users on FÁS courses who are also working in local communities with people at risk and addicts. These models would be used more at local rather than national level.
The committee's intention is to hear various organisations on the drugs problem. Today, we have the Minister of State outlining the national drugs strategy. We also intend to bring people working in the field from both urban and rural areas, as well as representatives from the regional task forces. The committee will be inviting the Minister of State to discuss how the strategy is perceived on the other side.
Many communities, particularly poorer ones, are under threat with the open sale of drugs on the streets and drug related murders. What is the Government doing about the extra 2,000 gardaí, promised during the election, and community policing? What strategy is in place since the Government was elected to deal with this issue?
Reduction in the supply of drugs is one element of policing. There is a commitment to get extra policing for certain areas. Numbers go up and down but there has been some progress. However, we have not reached the set targets. We have been visiting many drugs task force areas. Some of them admit that the numbers of gardaí are up and they are getting on top of the issue. In other areas, it is not as good.
How many have seen this turnaround?
I cannot quote the exact figures now but we are constantly making the effort to have better community policing. In some areas, policing fora are being established, creating formalised and structured ways whereby the Garda, the local authorities and the communities can work together.
However, the policy is failing.
Deputy, I would like to take final submissions in a more ordered manner.
Chairman, the Minister of State did not answer my question.
Deputy James Breen asked about cannabis and the changes in UK law. We are not considering any changes here as we consider what the UK has done is to bring its system closer to ours. Cannabis in Ireland comes under the First Schedule of the Misuse of Drugs Acts. However, if one is caught with quantities for personal use only, it is punishable by a fine on the first or second occasion. There is far more discretion in the practice of the law here than in the UK. We are not considering any changes as the UK is coming more into line with our system.
Although Deputies Kelly and James Breen may have said the opposite, I do agree that most policing time goes into chasing the big pushers and dealers. There is a common sense approach to this issue in law and practice so that the gardaí do not chase individuals with small amounts of cannabis for individual use. The Garda has discretion but local gardaí would know who they were dealing with in their locality. If an individual is caught with cannabis for personal use only, it can be dealt with by a fine on the first and second occasion. The UK is coming more into line with Ireland's standpoint on that issue.
There is a danger in what the UK did, in that it sends out the message that by decriminalising a substance, it makes it harmless. Our system was better from day one in that we will not be seen to retreat from the fact that cannabis is still a dangerous drug. It is carcinogenic and it is not good for people's health. When governments change the classification for such a substance, it is as if the all-clear has been given. That is a dangerous signal to give. It is still a dangerous drug for the individual and there is criminality. The UK is coming into line with us, so we are not considering any changes whatsoever to our rules.
The national drugs strategy is not working. It is a good strategy on paper but it is not properly funded. There is fear, concern and violence in communities where drugs are prevalent. That the Minister of State could not give me the figures to show the Government's commitment to more Garda resources, particularly in the communities most affected by drugs, is not acceptable. The Department should get him those facts. Everyone accepts that it is an excellent drugs strategy but it is not properly funded. The promises the Government made at the general election are hollow. Communities, particularly in Dublin city, are outraged at the lack of response from the Government.
The committee will be hearing from inner Dublin city groups dealing with this issue.
I welcome the Chairman's intervention on getting submissions from different groups.
Donegal County Council has the first democratically elected youth council in the country with an age range from 16 to 20 years. It may be a good exercise to have a submission from the council, as it is important to find out what is happening within that age group. The Minister of State referred to the Cabra example and the resources that need to go into capital projects. Such a model would be successful in an urban area like Cabra. However, in rural areas and small towns, young people are simply looking for an outlet or space where they can meet with their peers. Youth centres should open after 5 o'clock on a Friday and open again from 8 o'clock on a Saturday morning to 12 midnight and after school. There is a tradition in Northern Ireland whereby the authorities put great emphasis on putting youth workers through university. We must consider the human resource model as well as the capital resource move, and work hand in glove. There is a moral issue at stake here. I recall attending a regional drugs task force working group in 1996. The same issues such as preventative measures come up time and again. We mean well in what we say, but we bring up the same issues all the time. The moral at stake is that young people are bored and have little to do. Young people, including people in their 20s, look for a buzz on Saturday night by taking 15 pints or three ecstasy tablets. These people are bored and know nothing better. They are used to the buzz from drink, to which they look forward. The responsibility will rest with us if we do nothing about the problem. We should keep things simple and try to move forward. If we make progress through the committee, and through the intervention of the Chairman, we can move forward in this regard.
I wish I had the resources.
Members of Macra na Feirme, which is generally made up of farmers from rural areas, do a lot more than just being involved in agriculture. The organisation has a great structure in place. The percentage of drug taking among members of Macra na Feirme is extremely low. I am not a member of the organisation but I take an interest in its projects. Members become involved in different activities. It might be worthwhile if members of the committee spoke with someone from Macra na Feirme to find out what is happening in the organisation. Lately I have become aware of the part the organisation has played in the development of young people. A number of politicians have a Macra na Feirme background. Perhaps this is something that could be tapped into. I was never involved in the organisation but the model could be tapped into.
We might get a rapporteur from this committee to deal with this aspect in terms of hosting a number of committee meetings and bringing the Minister back at the end of that process.
The issue of drugs and driving was raised. There are plenty of tests for drink driving, even though these have been queried at every level. Reference was made to the fact that people on drugs harm themselves, not others. Is there any movement on the drugs and driving issue?
It is being examined at EU level. A garda can take someone to the station and do a blood test and so on. However, there is no test similar to the breathalyser test.
A garda can arrest someone if he or she has reasonable suspicion that a driver is over the legal alcohol limit. Does this apply in regard to drugs?
Gardaí need no special law if they find someone is not properly in charge of a vehicle.
Deputy English referred to what happened in Navan a few years ago. That may have been because the supply went dry and the heat was turned up on dealers. Certain dealers might have been out of the country and the normal routes were upset.
No, there was political will to do something about it.
Yes.
Members should let the Minister conclude regardless of whether they agree with him or not.
I refute totally what Deputy O'Dowd said. The budget for this year amounts to €33.5 million. This is used by my Department as the co-ordinating Department, together with the young people's facilities fund. This does not include what the Department of Health and Children and the Garda spend. They must do their job.
I would like to deploy extra gardaí in the worst areas. If the Garda is invited in it might be asked the relevant and difficult questions on these issues. In the past five or six years, approximately €150 million has been spent in disadvantaged areas, which is huge money. This is capital funding which is being spent on services. Senator McHugh referred to after hours opening, which is what we are trying to deal with. There is no point having centres open by day. There are huge suburbs in Dublin. There may be disadvantaged areas in towns throughout the country, but these are smaller pockets. Voluntary groups may have tapped into sports grants and so on. There is no sponsoring body in parts of Dublin where there is not a hope of getting 10% or 20% of the funding. Some of the projects set up under the young people's facilities fund are partly funded by sports grants. There is a very small local contribution and the young people's facilities fund often acts as the local contribution. We may not pay 99% of some of them. It has varied from place to place. We are trying to attract people and provide alternative lifestyles for them. Some €33.5 million is a considerable amount of money.
We have been out and about meeting with communities. Many of them say that progress is being made but others are unhappy. There is a lot of knowledge in the community and we work on a partnership basis. Many staff are employed by the health board and drugs task forces. We are trying to bring people together to work in partnership. We want them to concentrate on providing services and not on lobbying and complaining about what is happening. Most people recognise that good work is being done. However, the problem has not gone away, nor will it go away. It is very difficult to measure one's success. We put this to the various drugs task forces which have in place some very good projects. It is difficult for them to say 500 or 800 would have got involved in drugs but for what has been done. It is difficult to prove these things.
We must be flexible in general. We must recognise the move from heroin to cocaine or ecstasy. It is good that full-time addicts are moving away from drugs. We must get through to people that they could easily become addicted to what are regarded as recreational drugs. In the end, prevention, awareness campaigns, education and research are very important. It is up to individuals, with our help, to be aware of the dangers of these drugs. We are trying to give people the self-confidence and belief to handle issues and make decisions for their future.
There is a problem with other Departments being involved. The Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism is involved and youth services come under the Department of Education and Science. Capital projects are not the solution. Social infrastructure is important. It is important for a boxing club to be funded in Carrigart or a sports centre to be funded in Letterkenny. However, the Minister of State will be aware that all young people do not play sport. We are talking about overheads in terms of human resources, or having perhaps ten youth workers in a town like Letterkenny with a population of 16,000. People will voluntarily give a room and there will be insurance reductions. All they want to do is hang out with their peers and listen to music or play guitar and they would be doing so in a supervised environment. The youth club model worked but it required parents to be involved. Young people do not want to be with their parents, they want to get away from them because they are under enough pressure. It is a human resources issue and we should encourage people to take up full-time youth work courses so they can become full-time youth workers in their communities.
We will not report on that to the Minister because that would require employing somebody to do the job.
The money to do so is available.
The money could be used in that way. That point has already been covered.
Approximately 70% of the €68 million spent on youth facilities over the past few years went on capital expenses and 30% went on current expenditure. Once places are built, the emphasis will be on current rather than capital expenditure. A small building could probably be run by a voluntary committee but a larger one - we have developed big projects in so many areas - must be professionally run by youth and addiction workers and counsellors. That is what is happening. Some of them are trying to provide all services under one roof.
I apologise if I gave the impression all these facilities were sports orientated as they are not. That may come from the fact that I believe all problems can be solved on a football pitch. Youth facilities include video libraries, arts projects and so on.
We are simply rehashing what has been said. There is a typical example in Buncrana of what the Minister is referring to. Young people given a room in the youth club were allowed to decorate it as they wished. They are a responsible group of 16 to 18 year olds who take care of the younger children and who are responsible for opening and closing it. We cannot solve all the problems tonight.
I thank members, the Minister of State and his officials and all who attended the meeting today. I trust we can work together in future meetings. Perhaps the Minister of State, if he is aware of any delegation in particular which might be of assistance to us on this issue, might let the committee know about it. Similarly, any member of the committee wishing to undertake a rapporteur study should come forward.
The joint committee adjourned sine die.