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JOINT COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES debate -
Wednesday, 11 Mar 2009

Next Generation Networks: Discussion with Eircom.

The joint committee has invited Eircom representatives to discuss next generation networks, NGNs, and the implications for rural Ireland arising from a proposed reduction in the number of telephone kiosks. I welcome Mr. Pat Galvin, head of public policy, Mr. Geoff Shakespeare, chief technology officer, and Mr. Paul Bradley, head of communications.

I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. The committee cannot guarantee any level of privilege to witnesses appearing before it. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way so as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite Mr. Galvin to make a presentation.

Mr. Pat Galvin

We very much appreciate the invitation to address the committee regarding these two issues. I refer to background information relating to Eircom in terms of size and the contribution we make generally to the economy. The group comprises three separate business areas. Our total employment is 9,500, including contractors. Our spend is set out in terms of annual, current and capital expenditure and then details on the three main components of the group.

NGN builds on the progress to date on the delivery of broadband. While it implies significant incremental investment in infrastructure, it is based on the progress we have made on the delivery of broadband. The reassuring message we give today is that particularly since 2006 there has been significant progress in the roll-out and customer take-up of broadband in Ireland. Everyone accepts we started from a low base but, at this stage, all objective measurement of the industry's performance and the consumer response has been that we benchmark well against our EU peers in availability and price. The key final piece of the broadband coverage jigsaw is being provided by Government with the national broadband scheme, NBS, where there will be countrywide availability of broadband offered under contract with Government by 3 Ireland in all areas of the country, particularly rural Ireland. By 2011, we expect broadband speeds varying across the country from 1 megabyte to at least 24 megabytes on our network. Even though Eircom is the main provider of the NBS, we will offer services at a retail level and we anticipate based on the commitment that we will resell 3's broadband service in rural Ireland by May or June of this year.

I will introduce Mr. Shakespeare as our chief technology officer by drawing attention to three fundamental issues around the development of NGNs and, ultimately, these are three key components. As a business, we need to understand what the demand will be, what new services customers will want and what they are willing to pay for them. Given the significant change in the economic climate, any business assessment of investment in NGN needs to be reviewed and Eircom is currently doing that. Fundamentally, we need to understand what revenues are available and what the success of the business will be as a key input to our decision.

A second key dimension to this in terms of a decision on NGN is the regulatory approach, particularly the scale of investment required, the risk given the economic climate and the uncertainly about applications and consumer demand. We will need to understand in advance how the key regulatory issues will be addressed and how the risk that Eircom will be prepared to take can be recovered from the market, particularly from other operators that will benefit from the services we provide over that network. A feature of the current regulatory environment is that Eircom's infrastructure is accessed on regulated terms by all other operators and the terms and conditions of that access is a recurring issue for Eircom and the industry. We need the correct balance between encouraging investment and ensuring a fair, competitive playing field is developed for all operators.

The final pieces of the jigsaw in making the big decision on NGN are the ones we will mainly focus on today because these are the areas over which we have control and we have done an immense amount of work in understanding the technology issues. Mr. Shakespeare will take us through these issues such as, fundamentally, transformation of the legacy copper network throughout the country to an NGN mainly based on fibre technology. We want to share Eircom's current thinking on those issues. I will hand over to Mr. Shakespeare.

Mr. Geoff Shakespeare

I will give a quick snapshot of the agenda I would like to cover. First, I will put a frame around some of the technology evolutions and social trends emerging that impact directly on how people will use the telecommunications network in the future and then outline a quick snapshot of Eircom's vision for what the future NGN will look like. There are essentially two components to the network — access, the piece with which most people are familiar, where today we have a copper network and we would like to evolve to a fibre network in the same way as there is no point in building lots of secondary roads and huge housing estates without dealing with the core motorway network. We also have to, in advance, prepare the core network for the aggregation of high speeds that will become available at the edge of the network to consumers and business.

I refer to the emerging technology trends. Convergence is a buzz word and there are typically two types — convergence of devices and convergence of services. The easiest example of convergence of a device is the multipurpose role of a mobile telephone, which has taken on the attributes of an alarm clock, camera, music player and calculator. A converged device is one that is in people's pockets and does multiple tasks. E-mail started up as a service one executed when one was connected directly to one's business network. Now one can connect from home, business and from one's mobile. That is an example of a converged service. More and more innovation in the marketplace is in these two dimensions.

The other characteristic is that on-line is becoming omnipresent. People are on-line more and more. The applications and the services they want to use are moving on-line and, therefore, they do not feel the need to own the service. They access it and it executes somewhere else and they derive the benefit of that service. There is an increasing need for bandwidth, speed and the geographic reach of that speed.

Another dimension to emerge is the so-called web 2.0 technologies. Web 1.0 could be defined as demand-based technologies where people sent e-mails or browsed web pages and the down link was the primary characteristic of those. The uplink-related services such as Facebook and Myspace are becoming more prevalent. People upload their own content and interact more in a virtual environment on the Internet. The other piece of the equation is the networks are becoming customer aware and intelligent. The prime characteristics of that are the networks know where a person is, whether he or she is on-line or available for interaction, and the available speed he or she has. For example, the version of my e-mail that I get on my telephone is a more slimmed down client of what I see in my business environment. It is tailored to limited bandwidth and the mobile environment versus high bandwidth in a business environment.

I refer to the new business technology environment. Services are moving on-line but not only in the consumer space. Businesses, particularly in the SME sector, own their own IT infrastructure and somebody looks after their IT services. As we move towards the future with software as the service, the same services will be present in a business environment but they will be hosted at the far side of the Internet in a hosting centre. Two dimensions make that attractive. The first is smaller businesses get to focus on their core business, whether that is selling cars or houses, without worrying about the IT environment they are in, and the second is they benefit from having usage-based access to applications such as MS Word and Powerpoint rather than having to own the licence themselves because they are owned in a hosting centre. A key aspect of meeting smaller businesses under the auspices of the Small Firms Association was the fear in the SME sector of embracing that and opening the Internet up to their environment. There is a key security and maintenance issue that this environment provides. For example, when I log in in the morning, our data centre in Dundrum updates my client, whether it is a virus, MS Word or Powerpoint, to the latest version. In a typical SME environment one must take care of that oneself and, therefore, it reduces the cost of ownership of many applications from a business perspective. The key is to drive ICT technologies in this sector.

I refer to emerging social trends. We are moving to an environment where people want more control and the ability to personalise and customise their own communications environment. In the past, the customer was served at the network's pleasure. We are moving to an environment where the customer will determine more and more how he or she consumes services. A prime example is I have a little boy at home who watches Thomas the Tank Engine DVDs. Not alone does he want to watch a specific episode, he wants to watch a particular scene. As the digital age progresses and the demand-based environment becomes more prevalent, we will have a generation of people who are used to consuming media on their terms when they want it. There is a need for greater access to the Internet and its services.

The other trend that is becoming more pervasive is transacting on-line. Buying a book on Amazon or paying an eFlow toll is mainstream. There is nothing unusual in that. Interacting on-line, particularly for the teenage and young adult age groups, is becoming normal with significant use of Facebook, Myspace and similar applications. Opting in to allowing one's data to be used to deliver better services is also becoming normal. We wind up in a next generation world where the services are based on being connected to the networks, services being enhanced by the knowledge of who one is, what one likes and where one is and extended further by who one's friends are and whether one is on-line, all of which is underpinned by one's creditworthiness and willingness to opt in to such services. Some of those characteristics are network-based such as where one is, one's creditworthiness and whether one is on-line but others are a function of some of the web environments where one opts in and identifies one's preferences.

Such services are developed by the clashing of network information with what one's like and whether one can pay for it. I refer to a German example in trial currently in a cinema chain. Half an hour before the show is due to begin, if it is not sold out the workload management system triggers an SMS to consumers nearby who are interested in the content being shown and pushes an advertisement at them that triggers them to purchase a ticket, potentially discounted or with free content, and the load factor of the cinema increases by show time. That is the type of service environment that becomes possible with some of the new technologies.

A big question is how Ireland gets there. I am an engineer by trade and this where the boring engineering part must kick in because everyone needs to understand a number of key enablers. What is our vision of a new generation network, NGN? Essentially broadband emerged as a niche service about 12 or 13 years ago, with optimistic penetration forecasts of between 3% to 5% of business and households. As such, broadband was bolted on to the side of the existing circuit switch network, the existing voice network and those types of technologies. What has become very clear is that broadband is now at the centre and the major consumer of the band-width in the network. It now makes sense to look at the world in a completely different way and say we need to build a broadband-centric network, a network that does broadband first and does the other applications, such as voice as an add on, instead of the other way around. We want to support and drive customer take-up of the high band-width services and not only do that in areas of high conurbation but extend the geographic reach of our NGN deep into the Eircom network nationally.

In the current project we are going out to the top 240 population centres, which is the first phase of the project. That equates to all towns with more than 4,000 or 5,000 people. It is deep penetration as a first phase. A second aim is to extend access to the ICT hosting capability to the SME sector. The key to being able to embrace those technologies is to have enough band-width coming into the PC so that one is not waiting ages for the responses centrally. Equally, a number of networks have grown up over the years, all with their own business cases and all relevant to their time and it now makes sense to fold on to a future architecture.

I will give an overview of our current network and the difference between a core network and an access network. At the heart of our network are main exchanges. Those are connected typically by fibre to local exchanges which are then connected to street cabinets, which then are connected to distribution points. Typically a street cabinet might have between 200 and 400 lines connected to it. A distribution point will typically have between four and ten lines connected to it and that is then connected to the house to deliver the service. The main exchange and the local exchange are part of the core network while the cabinet and the distribution point are part of the access network.

One can think of the core network as an old idea reapplied. The shops in a typical main street in the 1950s would include a butcher, baker, a fishmonger, a pharmacist, an off-licence and lots of singleton service providers. Essentially what is becoming more and more prevalent is one-stop shopping, where one gets exactly the same services but at a single point, effectively optimising distribution and reducing the cost. If we apply the same framework to telecommunications, there are multiple singleton services, depending on how one calculates it Eircom has between 11 and 13 separate networks that are delivered in a vertically integrated way. Applying the one-stop shopping framework to communications, we get to NGN, where people experience the same services with the same quality but delivered in an optimised way and off the back of a next generation network that has very high band-widths associated with it and is capable of supporting multiple access technologies, whether broadband, GSM, 3G or wireless LAN.

Let me put a framework on the overall business environment of Eircom. Essentially Eircom has customers who access services, but for it to deliver those services at scale and with quality, it wraps standardised processes around them. Those processes are supported by IT support systems and content. The actual customer interactions are controlled by a control layer of complex processors, all of which run over an IP core or next generation IP core and serve multiple access technologies from broadband and telephony to GSM, 3G and wireless LAN. In this kind of environment, Eircom must ensure that services for the customers are delivered in a perfect world with no difference to any of the access technologies. Obviously the band-width that is available in a 3G network is different from the band-width that is available in a broadband network. There are different variants of those services with the same essential functionality but maybe not as content rich and the objective of the end game is to deliver those services. The same service is delivered across multiple accesses whether on a wireless LAN, 3G, GSM or broadband line.

The key message is that this new service environment is not just about raw band-width, but about the content that sits higher up the chain to allow us to do that clashing of network characteristics and personal characteristics and web profiles to deliver those services. We are doing a number of things. In the first instance we are having Ericsson build mobile broadband networks. We launched that last week and we have between 38 and 39% population coverage at present. We are on track for 53% coverage by September. That is well on track. The service delivery platform is the smart engine that will help deliver those advanced services. The next generation intelligent network tender is in progress and we are approaching the decision point on its capital financing. We have the other spider in the web, the IP multimedia sub-system and that tender is in progress as well.

Mr. Shakespeare said the tender is in progress. Who is the tender with?

Mr. Geoff Shakespeare

In the case of the next generation IN tender, it is with a company called Kapsch-jNetX, Ericsson and Alcatel and in the case of the IP multimedia sub-system it is with Ericsson, Alcatel and Whaway. We started out with six vendors in each case and across 15 months they were whittled down to three. We are at the stage of best and final offer.

The next generation business support architecture is the resystemisation of the customer care, billing and order handling system — essentially the IT that supported those standardised processes in the last diagram. The tender process for that is complete. We have been tendering for two years. The full project scoping work has started and we are at the point of signing a contract with IBM Amdocs. The NGN and the next generation access work is in progress.

I will now outline the drivers for the next generation network. We have seen a demand for higher band-width connectivity to meet Enterprise customers needs as they move to embrace the IP and the digital world. There is a demand for increased geographic reach of fibre backbone connectivity. We must capitalise on the intrinsic cost benefits of NGN to deliver high band-width services cost effectively. This is a broadband network built from the start rather than bolted on the side with the compromises and the cost tariffs that come with that. A key feature of the next generation network will be its ability to address the backhaul contention issues in a broadband environment, by utilising different technologies in a more cost effective way. Other applications that arise from putting high band-widths deep into the community are medical imaging, shipping X-rays from one side of the country to the other, which supports the concept of medical competence centres, e-Health, the remote monitoring of people. It could apply to the remote monitoring of security applications, collaboration without travel, via video conferences, remote working, sharing content, virtual call centres and web-native applications. Call centres are not necessarily centralised in a particular place but can involve people working from home as part of a call centre, the calls being distributed to them as though they were sitting in a call centre. Web-native applications such as Salesforce.com allow sales forces to be remotely managed. There is a need for the SME sector to increase its use of ICT. Key to that is having high bandwidth access to application hosting centres provided by companies such as HP, IBM, Eircom and others.

In the consumer space there is a demand for faster less contended speeds for unicast services. These are services that are one-to-one such as video on demand, streaming, YouTube, time-shift TV, Internet TV. In other words people have the capability of consuming media when they want to consume it, not when a broadcast channel wants to send it to them. There will be an increase in broadband use as applications "hold" users.

If we look at the growth in traffic across the customer base, in the consumer space we can see the number of DSL ports has steadily increased in recent years and is running at approximately 650,000 customers with an average connection rate tipping back up to 2,000 a week. We can also see that the traffic per working line is increasing, rising from 10 kb per user as an average to more than 35 kb over the past three years. In the business space the number of IP VPN ports has risen and the number of very high bandwidth Metro-Ethernet ports, the ones that run at between 100 and 500 megabits per second, has increased dramatically since we launched them in 2006. All of that leads to a consequent core network growth, shown on slide No. 19, pretty much doubling every year.

We are building the next generation core network to support that and recognise that reality. Where we are with it is a key question. Phase 1A is Dublin, which is 49 sites. The build is almost complete. There are some space issues in that physically there is no space at Foxrock and Nutley exchanges so we have to move equipment and, in the case of Foxrock, build a little extension to it. The commissioning is ongoing with 30 or 31 sites ready for service at the moment. It is carrying live traffic. It is carrying our Meteor 3G traffic. It also carries dial-up traffic in the Dublin area and will, from this month, start carrying broadband traffic in the Dublin area.

I have a graphic of that which shows where the roll-out is. There are essentially three parts to the architecture. The important bit is where the blue nodes are. Those are the connection points to the network. The edge nodes are the control points. They have connection points collocated with them so there is a comprehensive coverage in Dublin on our existing exchange base.

Phase 1B is the major regional sites. There are seven optic rings being built where our existing fibre is being enhanced by technology. Instead of putting one colour down that fibre it puts eight, 16 or, in extreme cases 160, to boost dramatically the capacity of the fibre that is in the ground. We have seven of those rings that support phase 1B. The Midland and Drogheda rings are currently in build. The other five rings have been ordered and we will take delivery of those in the summer. Effectively by the end of Q3 this is the footprint of our NGN as we have put it out. We are driving to reach deep into all corners of the country.

Phases 2 and 3 essentially build on the provincial build of the transmission systems and infilling. By the end of phase 3 which is scheduled for June 2011 which is the end of our financial year our NGN footprint will be prevalent in the Irish marketplace. This project is fully approved at board level and capital financed. This is a project that is in execution, in full flow. It has taken about a year to get the flywheel going but the flywheel is now going and we are dropping those sites in quite fast.

The key benefits are increased coverage of high speed data services, faster speeds, availability of much higher bandwidths, particularly in the business environment, up to 10 GBit/s access nationally at 100 sites, up to n X 1 GBit/s nationally at 238 sites, fast broadband nationally at 917 DSL sites that are in plan and, equally, 100 Mb services nationally at those 917 sites. The key to all of this is that the backhaul is migrated from the legacy transmission types to the new IP-centric transmission types. Essentially there is an intrinsic cost efficiency in that which allows us move to take contention and backhaul contention out of the equation for the customer. A key thing to note is that this is a strategic build so we are not building to order. If a big builder wants a fibre connection into one of our nodes we build it to order. Right now we are building this out to 240 sites nationally on the belief that the demand is there. That will significantly reduce response times to customer requirements and enable us to deliver service faster. That is as much as I was going to say about the NGN core programme that is in progress.

I will move to our NGN access programme. I will explain what it is we are referring to when we talk about access network. Effectively it is the infrastructure that is outside of our exchange buildings, the cabinets and the distribution points. We do this because we see there is a demand for 25 Mb and upwards copper-based broadband product for small to medium enterprises and a deeper fibre penetration to meet enterprise and Government needs at the smaller locations. There is also a requirement for the high speed links to allow ICT hosting to be extended into the SME sector cost effectively so that a SME can benefit from these services on its existing copper rather than needing additional fibre. In the consumer space, we saw the bandwidth consumption profile, our experience is that consumers consume the bandwidth that is available to them and bandwidth and speed has become the third leg of the equation that is processing capacity, memory capacity and speed. The applications that are evolving change every year and evolve every year. Key for us is to have a platform to compete with cable TV, particularly in some of the urban areas.

To frame the access network technologies we have in place, looking at the basic telephony network, which is shown on the left hand side of page 22 of the PowerPoint presentation, one sees the local exchange interconnected by copper to a cabinet. I will give an idea of what the cabinets typically look like. One sees that green roadside furniture all over the country. There is a picture of it closed on the left hand side and open on the right. The terminations come from the exchange and are relayed on to distribution points further down in the network. The cabinets typically aggregate between 200 and 400 customers. Those are then relayed on smaller cables to distribution points which are significantly closer to peoples' homes. A typical distribution point has a cable that has come underground, up the side of the pole and is distributed to a maximum of ten houses. The types of speeds one gets on that network are dial-up speeds, 56 kb. Typically that allows e-mail type access to services and basic telephony services.

If we look at first generation broadband, effectively what we did was put new electronics in the exchange. Those electronics drive a broadband signal out through the existing cabinet and DPs to the home, with speeds of up to 8 megabits down and up to 1 megabit up. The reason I use the phrase, "up to", is that in the same way that radio waves do not travel endlessly, neither do the waves that carry broadband down those copper pairs. There is a limit to how far those signals propagate. The mechanism for delivering higher speed broadband is to use higher frequencies but intrinsically the laws of physics are that the higher frequencies go even shorter distances.

A second generation of broadband is in the exchanges. It uses those higher frequencies to deliver up to 24 megabits speeds but where the first generation could deliver out to 5 km, the second generation takes that out to about 6 km. However, the 24 megabits is only really available inside of about 2 km, that is, 1 km to 2 km of the exchange.

We are using the existing exchange infrastructure to deliver broadband. What is becoming clear as we look at where applications are going is that one and eight megabit broadbands really will not be where the applications that people want to use on-line will evolve. This pushes us to look at an access network. In the first instance we are looking at fibre to the cabinet. This is where we take the electronics that provide broadband and which are in the exchanges today and put them into the cabinet. This drives a different flavour of DSL out to the home. The distance requirement does not change so that is the reason the electronics must be placed closer to the home. Typically, the cabinet speeds are 60 megabit speeds but those will fall off quite dramatically as one moves away from the cabinet. We are targeting a 25 megabit service that is actually 25 megabit and not up to 25 megabit. This is the kind of service we think we can get. On average our cabinets are around 700 m from people's homes. We are focusing on seeing if we could sustain a 25 megabit service with probably a 5 megabit upstream service in those environments. I will talk about this work later.

With regard to types of service which this kind of environment would support, these would be very high speed Internet, basic telephony, multiple standard definition TV channels and one or possibly two, high definition TV channels or applications of that scale.

The second type of next generation is a fibre to the home and this is essentially a replacement of the existing copper network with fibre running all the way from the exchange to the home. In our trial the types of bandwidths were up to 80 megabits down, 40 megabits up. That is sufficient to support the high speed Internet, phones, standard definition TV and multiple high definition TV screens.

I will explain about the architecture. The red boxes shown in the presentation are the cabinets. Today big copper cables go to the cabinets and smaller copper cables go to businesses and homes. In the case of the fibre to the cabinet environment, we have fibre cabinets that complement the copper cables to the cabinets and copper tails that connect to the homes.

The scale of our cabinet build is not the kind of project one would undertake as a big programme without understanding the implications. In mid-2007 we initiated a technology trial to identify the cost, feasibility and how we would do it. We are replacing 50 existing copper cabinets with next generation-compatible cabinets. We are connecting power and fibre to those cabinets and we want to see whether we can see a 25 megabit broadband offer that we could stand over as a proposition to our own retail customers and also to the wholesale customer base as resale opportunity. The reason we are being careful is that once we say that those cabinets can do 25 megabits, people will build other products around those so we need to be sure we can stand over it. The key objectives are to work out how we would do it, how much it would cost and to develop the different ways and methods to do it.

The areas we chose for the trial were Dundrum and Stillorgan. Dundrum, roughly speaking, is bounded by Milltown and Ballinteer and I have highlighted the Taney Road, the N11 and Blackrock, the general Stillorgan area, in the presentation. The green cabinets are the ones we are changing and the red cabinets are being left unchanged. This is not an effort to provide this service in Dundrum and Stillorgan but rather it is about understanding the cost and feasibility of doing it. We decided on a statistically feasible sample of 50, spread across a couple of representative areas within a span of control.

The cabinet has been designed by our access design team in Cork and it is being manufactured by Tyrone Fabrication in Aughnacloy. A key factor is that it needs to be a piece of street furniture; it cannot be the size of a container. It needs to be unobtrusive and it will need to be covered by way-leave legislation rather than lengthy planning permission processes. It needs to be unobtrusive and it cannot be massively bigger than the existing green cabinets because these cabinets are on the street and equally there is a case of physical implementation.

The cabinets need to be energy-efficient. Below 2kW hours we have unmetered access to ESB which simplifies the build and the cost. In reality this is a big civil engineering project with electronics put into the final housing. The design is complete, the fibre network build to all the cabinets in the Stillorgan and Dundrum areas have been built. All the cabinets are carrying the traffic so we have cut the old green cabinets out of the network and it is running across the white cabinets as shown in the presentation. The power build is complete. We are putting electronics in ten representative cabinets so that we can validate whether or not we see the 25 megabits. The speed trial started this month and the speed at the front door of that white cabinet is 60 megabits down, 30 megabits up but this will decay significantly as one moves hundreds of metres away from the cabinet.

Although it is not a planning process there are lead times involved in obtaining way-leaves. We are striving to see just how fast we can get this done and what kind of pipeline could be built and having permission is key. In many cases we have to dig the road to get the ESB connection and there can be delays in connecting the power.

We have concluded that the fibre net cabinet project is a future-proof solution to providing higher speeds to our customers. It prepares us for a broadband variant to voice and not voice-delivered as we do today, but voice-delivered over the broadband network rather than as a separate network. This positions us for an eventual fibre to the home deployment. We are leaving enough fibre at those cabinets so that we can splice them and bring fibre solutions out further to the edge. There is a high up-front cost associated with the cabinet deployments including digging in the cables, both our own and the ESB cables, replacing the plinth and the process of deployment. The top 65% of the exchanges which cover about 1 million lines would cost between €400 million and €500 million. This would take about 600 people five years to execute, subject to having a new approach to the third party dependencies of way-leave and power. We think we could probably hit a run rate of deploying around 1,000 cabinets a year.

That is the first of the access technologies and the second access technology is fibre to the home. There is the existing copper network, as described. In this network we supplant the copper completely and take fibre out to splitters which are now housed in the cabinets and distribute the fibre to each individual home.

We initiated a trial. The nature of fibre to the home is that it suits relatively densely populated areas, and the trial was conducted in a building, Belarmine Hall, Sandyford. We want to deploy a complementary fibre solution, and this building has both copper and fibre. Because it is a trial we have turned it down so that people are back on the copper network. The purpose is to provide telephony and broadband services over the fibre and see what type of speeds we can get. Again, the objectives are the same — to understand how we might do this, how long it would take and what it would cost.

The actual building has 109 homes in it, the voice service is being provided over the fibre and there is in-home equipment supporting telephony and broadband. In this environment we are much more involved with the initial construction of the building, because fibre is a more sensitive material than copper. Copper is an extremely robust material. We are therefore far more involved in the build and finishing process of the building than we would be with copper. On the right-hand side one can see the type of appearance one would have in a home. Coming out of that would be the phone line and multiple connections for PCs, and wireless LAN to remotely connect the PCs.

As regards a comparison of speeds, copper-based broadband based on where Belarmine Hall is and its distance from its copper exchange in Sandyford, typically we see 5.3 Mb down and 839 kb up. In the fibre-based broadband we saw 55.7 Mb down and 41.18 Mb up, but actually the speeds coming out of the building were so high that we did not want to flood the back haul load of Sandyford exchange, so in fact the speeds would be higher. The other significant thing to note in the diagram is the ping time, where the implicit latency of the connection is about half that of a copper broadband. This matters because, for example, in a game someone using a copper line will get shot by whoever is using a fibre line, if they are drawing at equal times. There are more significant implications to that, however.

Our conclusions from the fibre to the home trial confirmed that it is the end game for high speed broadband and is absolutely future proofed. There is a high up-front cost, however, associated with deployment. In the case of Belarmine Hall, it was in excess of €2,000 per home covered. That trial was initiated in 2006 and for various construction related issues it only happened in 2008. Significant evolutions have taken place in both the in-home termination equipment and in how the distribution is done.

Looking at the cost to retrofit fibre into existing homes, we find there is a cost of between €2,000 and €2,500 per home. Again, taking the top million homes, it effectively means that in those areas costs can be upgraded to fibre fit homes. Density of conurbation is a function in this equation in terms of the unit costs of the fibre equipment, which tend to be lower — but only in high densities. Effectively the cost would be of the order of €2.5 billion to upgrade the top million homes.

That is where I propose to finish and hand back to Mr. Galvin, who will summarise.

Mr. Pat Galvin

Mr. Shakespeare has indicated to the committee the substantial progress we have made. We are on the point of concluding a core NGN network, linking all the main urban centres. There will be substantial and incremental investment on that in the next 18 to 24 months, and we have two trials in terms of the access network focusing on fibre to the cabinet and fibre to the home. I shall leave the committee with this slide at this part of the presentation as regards where the overall future focus Eircom would like to bring to help Ireland lies, not just as regards economic recovery but to ensure the country flourishes in terms of an ICT platform that fits the purposes of business and consumers.

The presentation has been necessarily technical and we apologise for that. However, Mr. Shakespeare tried to keep it as simple as possible. Obviously, we are available for questions or if the committee prefers, we can move on to the payphone presentation. That is entirely the committee's decision.

We shall do that separately, so I call on Deputy Coveney.

I certainly have plenty of questions. I shall start by answering a question many people are asking at the moment as regards Eircom as a company, generally. There is a perception among many people, whether true or not, that the parent company is broke and that the necessary investment required to bring Ireland from where it is now to having a competitive next generation broadband network, will cost a great deal of money, and Eircom does not have the capacity to do this at the moment. Could the witnesses outline the level of debt Eircom is in and its actual financial commitment in terms of rolling out what is being proposed. That would be helpful in allaying people's concerns. I accept there is a significant financial commitment involved in what has been outlined today, but it would be helpful to have that on the record. What has been spent by Eircom in terms of rolling out a next generation network from a core as well as an access point of view in 2009, 2010 and the year after, if it has financially planned that far ahead?

There was a suggestion, which seems to have died down, to the effect that Eircom was looking at functional separation between its network wholesale business, as it were, in other words network management and ownership from its retail arm, similar to what happened to BT in the UK, although not quite the same in terms of what was being proposed — as regards functional versus structural separation and so on. Where is that whole argument at now, since it is relevant to this discussion?

In relation to the core network I am glad to see the plans that have been outlined. In terms of a core network — phase 1 in Dublin, with 49 sites and then the 39 regional sites — this time next year how much of that will actually be rolled out and how much is Eircom spending on it over the next 12 months? As regards Eircom's links with 3 for the national broadband scheme, before he left, Senator O'Toole told me he cannot even get a decent quality telephone line where he is living, which is 15 miles from a big town, never a mind broadband services which are not available. I should like to hear the witnesses views on the capacity of mobile broadband to deliver an adequate bandwidth of broadband services to rural Ireland. I am very sceptical about the capacity of 3 to be able to deliver an acceptable bandwidth. Can an argument be made to the effect that the potential contract now signed and in the process of being delivered under the national broadband scheme to allow 3 to provide broadband services to those rural parts of Ireland that currently cannot access them, will delay or prevent investment in those parts of the country, within Eircom and other companies, that otherwise would have considered rolling out broadband packages in those regions?

On the case that Eircom has made, which is essentially that the only way to go is through linking fibre and copper in terms of access, is it not accepting that mobile does not have the capacity to deliver the required broadband speeds and bandwidth for next generation products? Are we essentially solidifying a deep urban-rural divide? Using gaming parlance, the gamer in rural Ireland will always be shot before the gamer in Dublin. We do not seem to be making any progress in terms of providing what the Minister always describes as a universal standard of broadband across the country. In other words, mobile broadband is clearly inferior to what is being offered through fibre, whether wireless fibre or whatever, and copper.

It is a very convenient technology for people on the move and I use it regularly but it cannot facilitate businesses developing in rural Ireland or people working or communicating from home in the types of ways about which Eircom spoke, whether through gaming, video-conferencing or interactive socialising on the web. These things will not be able to be done by a mobile in the same way as they will in urban areas. Will Eircom comment on that?

A perception is being peddled by Government that the national broadband scheme is solving our rural broadband problems, but it is not. It providing a lesser service, in terms of bandwidth, and a first generation broadband service at a time when urban parts of Ireland are moving on to the next generation. As there are technical experts here, I would ask if mobile has the capacity to be able to upgrade and deliver the type of bandwidth about which we are talking at some stage in the future or if it will always be inferior to fibre.

In regard to the access network, Mr. Galvin will be aware that we launched a document this time last year entitled Creating a Fibre Nation which talked about the types of things about which Eircom is talking about doing. In terms of the access network, why are we trialling something we know works? This is a bit like the ESB trialling smart meters over the next two or three years when we know we need smart meters to be rolled out throughout the country. We are entering trial projects primarily in Dublin to upgrade cabinets, to roll out fibre between exchanges and cabinets and, I am glad to say, fibre between cabinets and the home which will give dramatic next generation broadband capabilities and which is exciting.

I am at a loss to understand why we are limiting our ambition to trials in this area because they have been done elsewhere and we know it works. We know that, as far as possible, we need to try to get fibre into people's homes and businesses. Where it is not commercially viable to do that, we are upgrading copper going into those buildings by bringing fibre to the nearest cabinet. What are Eircom's plans to actually turn what are trial projects, which are not overly expensive, into a mass roll-out in terms of access to fibre? That is what the country needs. I accept Eircom may not be able to give us detailed answers in regard to the costings.

I refer to competition and facilitating Eircom's competitors at an access level in terms bitstream products versus unbundling the local loop to provide a wholesale product or whatever. Is Eircom satisfied that it is facilitating competition at a level which is acceptable at this stage? There were significant problems in regard to this in the past. To be fair, much progress has been made but I would like to get a comment on the record.

I welcome the delegation from Eircom. Broadband is on everybody's mind at the moment. Unfortunately, Eircom was very slow to enter the market. A local firm, Bernie Crossan & Sons, was the first to provide broadband in County Longford, before Eircom or anybody else. Having said that, I welcome the provision of broadband in counties Longford and Westmeath by Eircom. Much progress has been made in the past few years and we look forward to continued progress.

There is much upset among the staff of Eircom that it did not win the Government contract and I have received numerous representations. Most people, including those who claim to know something about communications, cannot understand why Eircom did not win the contract because it has the network. Will this setback have serious consequences for staffing levels in Eircom?

I take this opportunity to compliment the management and staff of Eircom in Longford for their fast, pleasant, efficient and courteous service.

I thank Eircom for its presentation. Following on from what Deputy Coveney said, I get the impression from what we see here in regard to the roll-out of the next generation network by Eircom — it is a welcome development and we need to look at bringing the fibre right to the cabinets — that there will be a major differential between the services available in rural Ireland and those available in urban areas, for the other 35% of the population. In terms of the roll-out of broadband, while some exchanges are getting it, and we welcome the work Eircom is doing in that regard, because of a number of issues, people very close to those exchanges are not able to avail of a proper broadband service due to capacity and overcrowding on the network. That congestion means it is extremely slow. I know what is proposed will have a significant impact in that regard. However, will it have an impact on some of the exchanges which were broadband enabled over the past number of months? While it will have an impact on the exchanges which were broadband enabled a number of years ago, what sort of impact will it have on the other ones?

I refer to the problem of carrier lines. Eircom is now asking householders to pay for the upgrade of the line between the local exchange and their homes. Correct me if I am wrong but a former Eircom employee said that, by law, people should not have a carrier line to their homes even though it is extremely frequent in many of the exchanges being enabled now because they are in rural Ireland.

Eircom spoke about the distribution points. There seems to be a big problem there in regard to that final section of the last mile. It is causing serious problems for communities.

I wish to raise a point on the trial on the fibre cabinet. As Deputy Coveney said, we should look at rolling it out rather than at trialling it. I notice Eircom said that some of the issues encountered include the delays in obtaining wayleaves. It would not have come across the following yet but it will if this is rolled further. I refer to the attitude of Eircom to date in regard to dealing with the removal of poles which have caused safety concerns. Eircom has not been prepared to move them in the interests of public safety. When Eircom starts to look at rolling out these cabinets in local authority areas in which it has not been prepared to play ball on the issue of public safety and road safety, it could have significant problems in regard to wayleaves. Perhaps, even at this late stage, Eircom could review its policy on that to ensure there is a speedy transition to the roll-out of the next generation network, right through to the cabinets.

I welcome the delegation and thank it for the briefing, which was very technical. Coming from the country, I am not well informed of technical matters. There are a few issues of concern to me, particularly the service Eircom proposes to provide and the timeframe for it in rural Ireland, and where there can be an update or increase in the broadband service. I noted with interest that Eircom is conducting a trial in Dundrum and Stillorgan. It was mentioned that streets would be dug up, which is a major concern to many local authorities and the general public in the area concerned.

We had that in many provincial towns in rural Ireland when the metropolitan area networks were installed. Can the delegation explain the connection between Eircom and MANs? If resources or infrastructure are lying unused in provincial towns in rural Ireland which, at the same time, receive a very poor broadband service, why there is no connectivity? What is Eircom's involvement in the MANs system?

Eircom announced a programme of upgrading exchanges in rural Ireland some time ago. At that time we were told there would be a significant improvement in the delivery of broadband services as a result. Can the delegation give us an outline of how far it has gone with that programme or a progress report on it? Regarding the problems encountered, some people who were fortunate enough to have their local exchanges upgraded still cannot avail of broadband. The delegation said there was a problem with propagating the signal past 1 km or 1 km. Many people in Ireland live significantly further than 3 km from a rural exchange and still have no chance of getting broadband.

Another issue which arises, and which may be off track but is very significant in rural Ireland, is where one cannot avail of an ATM service or chip and pin service in pubs because the business it at the end of a line and is told Eircom does not have the slightest intention in the world of upgrading the line. Therefore, it is abandoning services in rural Ireland and I would like the delegation to comment.

Another issue regarding technology struck me. Perhaps the delegation can correct me. It was said when cabinets were being installed that Eircom worked with ESB to put in an ESB connection. What happens if there is a power cut or a significant loss of electricity supply? Will the broadband service also be lost? Are there plans to carry out trials in rural areas, such as were carried out in Dundrum and Stillorgan? When I say rural areas, I mean some of the provincial towns as well. I am very interested in the broadband service the delegation can offer to the people of rural Ireland. To say one can have satellite or wireless broadband is not acceptable.

In my case, I cannot get a connection to Leinster House, which many of my colleagues in the city can, because the line and exchange is simply not good enough and, for security reasons, the Oireachtas will not install it. We are way behind. Does the delegation accept that Eircom is playing catch-up? It has not moved with the times and we are way behind in providing broadband services in rural Ireland.

Regarding the delegation's presentation, in terms of Eircom working as a wholesaler and selling its facilities to other operators, how does its price compare to the European average of its European partners? To follow on from what Deputy Coveney mentioned, there is genuine concern about whether Eircom is in a position to make the investment required in order to give us a standard and capacity to compete with our international competitors in Europe and further afield. Mr. Galvin may address these matters and refer to his colleagues if he so wishes.

Mr. Pat Galvin

I thank the Chairman. Given the scope of the questions I will try to summarise categories and then indicate how we might respond. I will address the issues raised about investment, structural separation, NBS and competition, with particular reference to the questions about the nature of competition, the prices we charge and if we are happy we are facilitating competition. I will also discuss some of the issues about rural Ireland, including reference to MANs, the removal of poles and what I call the more technical categories, which Deputy Coveney, in particular, raised in relation to core network and access networks.

Mr. Shakespeare will comment on the question of the suitability of cellular or broadband in rural Ireland under the NBS, trials versus the development of projects and other issues such as capital expenditure plans for the next two or three years. Mr. Bradley will address the progress we have made on broadband, particularly in rural Ireland, the upgrade programme we have had and the extent to which we regard ourselves as having caught up substantially with, and passed out, many EU countries we would have been below in terms of progress up to then.

The first general category raised by Deputies concerned investment. We are at the end of a three year cycle and Eircom is finishing an investment programme of approximately €1 billion. It was a substantial increase in the scale of investment Eircom committed in the period prior to that three year cycle. The €1 billion invested delivered a significant acceleration in the upgrade of exchanges for the purposes of broadband. Mr. Shakespeare has outlined the next step we intend to take.

I emphasised that the trials are necessary. Deputy Coveney asked why they are necessary. They are necessary, not just for technical reasons, which Mr. Shakespeare will discuss, but also for commercial reasons. This investment happens in a competitive environment where we are competing against other platforms and lifestyle services available to communities, including cable and satellite television and all the other multimedia applications. Therefore, we must run a commercial test on the investment.

We are currently finishing a very significant delivery of core next generation networks but the critical investment decision, not just for Eircom but for Ireland, concerns access. How do we get high speed broadband to end users in urban and dispersed rural communities? Can we afford to use fibre optic cabinets or bring fibre optics all the way to the home? The scale of that investment is phenomenal. Eircom, given the current economic position, has no choice but to review and look at the business plan for these sorts of investment. The vision and the aspiration is to invest. The scale of the investment needs careful consideration, given what we are required to do.

No matter who makes this investment, whether it is the Government or a private company, the same questions must be answered on the feasibility of the investment, and that is where Eircom is currently.

What is the commitment in terms of expenditure over the next number of years? We are coming to the end of a €1 billion investment programme over the last three years. What is the commitment for the next three years? That is what we are trying to establish.

Mr. Pat Galvin

I understand that, but we are not in a position at this point to say what the commitment is because we are reviewing the situation in evolving economic circumstances. We are obliged, like every company, to review our current plans, investment, and technology choices. We have committed to a core investment in next generation networks and when the trials on access, whether it is fibre optic cabinets or kerbs, are completed, we will review the situation with the intention of making a clear decision on what we do over a three year cycle. We are not in a position now to say what that investment will be.

What are debt levels carried by Eircom at the moment?

Mr. Pat Galvin

My preference would be not to discuss balance sheet matters today. Clearly, funding will be critical and how that funding is made available or how the company addresses the issue is something it will have to consider. If the business circumstances are correct and the business plan meets the requirement of being a feasible project, Eircom intends to make the appropriate investments. A key element will not only be to understand the customer's response in terms of necessary services, but the level of fees that people will be prepared to pay. Individual consumers, not just corporations and enterprises, are examining their telecommunications costs critically.

Like every company, Eircom is facing pressures. We have a stubborn cost base, much of which has been externally imposed, and competition between us and companies offering similar services is accelerating. We are being pressured by consumers who are legitimately looking for more efficiencies. All of these issues must be taken into account by the review of our service roll-out plans and our capital investment.

I wish to press this point. All of the other matters are interesting and I accept that Eircom has been conducting trials and moving in the right direction, but is everything occurring quickly enough and does Eircom have the capacity to make the necessary investment? On top of needing to negotiate a difficult recession like every other company, Eircom is saddled with significant debts that must be serviced each year. I am trying to get a handle on this issue. From a policy maker's point of view, Eircom is the key ingredient in delivering next generation broadband services across the country, given its considerable influence in the marketplace and its ownership of the majority of the network.

For this reason, I am pressing the point. Since people are quietly saying it, we might as well be open about it. Has it been difficult for Eircom to find sufficient resources to roll out aggressively the type of network that is required, given the company's level of indebtedness? We need an answer.

Mr. Pat Galvin

Eircom is highly geared, but this has not prevented Eircom from stepping up to the plate in the past three years and increasing the scope of its capital investment programme to €1 billion. Given the changing circumstances and before we can decide what to do in the next three years, we must have a clear understanding of where the market is going in terms of demand, regulation and the extent to which we will have the freedom to charge and recover the risk required by such a major investment.

Our debt is manageable and we have not encountered any problem in our investment plan. We are meeting all of the obligations placed on us by our debt. We are reviewing the market with a view to making key decisions on our investment plan.

Perhaps I will address some of the other issues. Of structural and functional separation, the focus is on the latter. While Eircom is quite agnostic in terms of whether it is necessary, it is emerging as a remedy under the EU regulatory framework being deliberated on by the European Council, the European Parliament and the European Commission in Brussels. We expect that functional separation will be available as a remedy to regulators during the next two years after the package has been transposed into Irish law. At that stage, the dialogue on issues of structural or functional separation will occur between ourselves and the regulator.

The regulator may believe functional separation to be necessary, but we have mixed views on what benefits it would bring. We are unclear about the degree to which it has helped the UK's delivery of the fibre optic network in question. We are concerned that it would focus regulation and competition on the legacy network. The UK lags behind many European countries in terms of investment in fibre optic. The focus is on functional separation, a matter on which I expect dialogue during the next two or three years.

The Chairman referred to facilitation of competition. I cannot provide precise details, but the prices we charge other operators who use our network are competitive compared to incumbents in other European states. The only exception is the access network. The other major cost category is that of interconnection, namely, conveying traffic, minutes of voice, across a network. Our price is in the lower quartile of European benchmarks.

We are an outlier in terms of prices for our access network, that is, the local loop. The prices we charge have been set by ComReg based on our cost submissions. They have been independently assessed. While they have decreased in recent years, they remain high compared to other European countries because the Irish access network is unique, given the distribution of our houses and villages. For example, the number of one-off houses leads to a higher unit cost for any utility, be it telecommunications, electricity, water or sewerage. Broadly speaking, Eircom is competitive with one explicable exception.

Is it a case of a bitstream product and a wholesale service on the access network?

Mr. Pat Galvin

Yes. Bitstream is a wholesale version of what we would sell to an end user, in that someone takes the entire solution and resells it. A key component is the copper loop, although we include other management processes in the wholesale. If the key component is expensive, the wholesale line rental, WLR, service is also expensive.

In terms of facilitating competition, we made significant progress with the regulator and the other operators in the market two years ago. As ComReg acknowledged at a meeting of the committee approximately one month ago, it removed what were perceived as considerable obstacles to the use of local loop unbundling by our competitors. We are happy that we are doing everything possible. We are constantly in dialogue with the regulator on this issue. The regulator is not just considering the operational aspects of local loops, but also the costs. In this respect, we expect the regulator to take initiatives during the coming months.

We are satisfied that we are compliant, which we ensure by co-operating fully with the regulator and other operators. Taking into account the characteristics of the market, we are serving competition well by making the investment and hoping for a fair and reasonable regulatory regime that will allow the market to be competitive. This is our objective.

Regarding the national broadband scheme, NBS, I would rather not comment on the Government's decision, given that it was a public tendering process and a matter for the Government. With four or five other companies, we tendered for the project but were unsuccessful. We must move on. We intend to take a wholesale service from 3 when it launches its service. We will have the same discussions with it on prices and access that other operators have with us.

I will ask Mr. Shakespeare to comment on the technical aspects of the mobile service, but 3 winning the tendering process proved what we already knew, namely, that alternatives on other platforms can compete with Eircom in terms of broadband and voice telephony through mobile technology, given the fact that the Government is comfortable giving 3 a significant project like the NBS.

We have been consistent in our opinion regarding MANs. Where they offer an additional feature to our network, for example, if we do not have the infrastructure to serve a customer or set of customers, we will use them. From the beginning, particularly during phase one, our problem has been the duplication by MANs of Eircom's existing or planned infrastructure. Therefore, we had no reason to use MANs. E-net, which sells the MANs service, presents itself as a competitor to Eircom at a wholesale level. There is a slight contradiction. We cannot necessarily be expected to use our competitors' services where we have our own. However, as I stated, we are prepared to do so where they would complement our services.

On the urban versus rural divide, this is a legitimate issue of which we are conscious. Eircom always has been the key provider of what is called universal service throughout the country. Its representatives have appeared before this joint committee previously to talk about its plans for places such as the Black Valley. The plans regarding a broadband service that is specifically focused on the Black Valley now are being delivered on. I am pleased to state that construction work is almost complete and service will begin later this year. We are delighted to do this and it indicates our commitment to rural Ireland.

I will ask Mr. Bradley to talk later about the upgrade plan for local exchanges, including Longford. In reality, there always will be parts of a market that will not enjoy exactly the same benefits at the same time as do other parts. However, Eircom certainly is committed to make a standard service of broadband available to everyone and to have higher speeds where feasible or possible, depending on customer demand or the location of major business or enterprise components.

On the removal of poles, Eircom has received many representations on this issue and we appreciate it is significant. I cannot accept that Eircom is not doing anything about it. Obviously, we are willing to remove poles because we have full regard for health and safety issues. However, we simply seek to be reimbursed for the cost of so doing. Many of the obstructions caused by poles are due to civil works, house building or work for which Eircom has had no responsibility. In the event that a pole which had not posed a danger suddenly does so because people have changed the layout of their front garden or a county council has taken away a corner, clearly, the pole in question constitutes a danger as a result of such work. While Eircom is happy to do the work, we seek reimbursement for it. In other words, why should people who pay their telephone bills be obliged to pay for the removal of a pole that has caused those bills to increase when the entity or body that created the problem, in our view, should be responsible for ensuring that we are paid for doing so? However, we are sensitive to the issue and work as much as possible with local communities and local authorities to address it.

Does Mr. Galvin perceive the problems that will arise if Eircom continues to take such an attitude in respect of road safety issues? I refer to the removal of dangerous bends and so on. Local authorities will take a different attitude regarding the location of the aforementioned cabinets, which will have implications, as a local authority that is obliged to move a cabinet at some future date would incur massive costs. Consequently, local authorities must be extremely careful regarding the future consideration of way-leave applications. Such an application may have implications for the next couple of years and for future generations as significant costs could arise for the local authorities as a result.

Mr. Pat Galvin

I understand that and Mr. Shakespeare would concur that as we develop cabinets in urban and non-urban areas, ultimately these are the kinds of issues about which we would welcome open and future-looking dialogue with local authorities. However, the net point on the pole issue is that while we will not allow a hazard to remain in place, we simply and reasonably expect to be reimbursed for the cost of its removal. I accept it is part of a far greater issue in respect of the types of matters that Mr. Shakespeare raised as we develop or change our infrastructure.

Did Eircom create hassle for itself by locating the poles in such places?

Mr. Pat Galvin

While I can brief members further after speaking to operational people, I do not believe in the first instance that we would ever locate a pole in such a manner that it would create a hazard. Had we an operation in which this had been the case, I would be highly concerned.

I can provide Eircom with a clear example.

Mr. Pat Galvin

I would appreciate that and I thank the Deputy. I hope I have not left out some of the categories about which I intended to talk. I will ask Mr. Shakespeare to discuss the more technical issues, particularly pertaining to wireless suitability for broadband, trials and so on.

Mr. Geoff Shakespeare

On the suitability of wireless for delivering fixed broadband, 3G wireless is built as a mobile service and its orientation is to provide broadband on the go. However, it has limitations in that, intrinsically, mobile and 3G mobile or HSPA mobile is a shared access medium. I will try to explain what I mean. With our network, we have a one-to-one relationship with an individual's home. Consequently, if one can achieve 5 Mb on that line, the congestion one experiences will be due to congestion in the second mile, that is, between our local exchange and ultimately the site one is trying to reach. If the site which one is attempting to reach can handle only 2 Mb and is being used by other people, there will be a limitation in this regard. However, a one-to-one relationship exists and, consequently, if one performs a speed test when there is no congestion on the line, one will see 5 Mb.

There is a key difference in a wireless environment because, effectively, one is sharing the spectrum with the other users in that cell. If one considers how a wireless network is built up, typically one has three sectors. In a 3G environment with the licences that we have at present, each sector has a maximum of three units of currency or three units of bandwidth that are independent in the first instance. Although in the case of the networks that are available at present, one theoretically can achieve 14.4 Mb per second from them, based on feedback from the vendors the actual throughput is more likely to be 6 Mb per second simply because of different coverage conditions — for example, some people will be indoors and others will be outdoors, and some people will be closer to the base station while others will be further away. There is an effective throughput of approximately 6 Mb to share among the people who are within the coverage sector of the base station. It is a shared access technology. If no one else in the sector wishes to use it, the throughput will be 6 Mb, whereas if ten other people are in there and wish to use it, it will be typically 600 kb.

The second dimension is that in many cases, once one reaches the base station, one also encounters congestion in the backhaul. One encounters congestion both during the access and in the backhaul. Obviously, we are building a high capacity 3G network as a complement to our fixed broadband network. Our view on the marketplace is that, ultimately, there is a 1.6 million home market for fixed broadband and a 4.2 million person market for mobile broadband. We see them as being complementary technologies. Even when one considers——

The problem is that it is not complementary if one cannot get both. The figures in Ireland often are skewed in respect of broadband usage because mobile phone figures are thrown in. However, many people, including most of those in this room, have a 3G mobile broadband service on their telephones but also use a fixed line broadband service in the office, at home or wherever for most of their work activity. We are asking people in rural Ireland to accept mobile broadband on its own. The advantage is that they will get something that is better than what they had previously, namely, nothing. However, there are two disadvantages in that first, they will be getting an inferior product, unless I completely misread the position, and, second, and perhaps most important, that inferior product has the potential to prevent investment and roll-out of a better broadband service in the form of a fixed line service, regardless of whether it is achieved through fibre, copper or wireless fibre, for example, in rural Ireland. Is my assessment in this regard correct?

I do not ask the witnesses to comment on the Government's policy, I simply ask them about the technologies in respect of mobile broadband, what it is used for and about expecting rural Ireland to rely on it for business, as well as for social convenience. Am I correct in stating that, potentially, we are creating a deep urban-rural divide in respect of next generation broadband?

Mr. Pat Galvin

I will go back to my earlier point that in very rural parts of every country, it is likely there will be only one technology serving it and that it simply will not be economic, for example, to extend fixed line broadband. The rationale for the NBS project was that companies like Eircom and others told the Government how far commercially they could develop broadband services. As we told the Government, it was clear there would be residual rural areas that would have to depend on wireless technology, whether cellular or otherwise——

I am making a distinction between wireless and mobile broadband. It is perfectly acceptable to have wireless broadband in urban as well as rural environments. Wireless technology can deliver huge bandwidth. There is some general confusion about the difference between mobile broadband and wireless broadband. While neither of them involves physical wires, there is a major difference in terms of the technology and the capacity to deliver bandwidth. That is my concern. If the national broadband strategy was about delivering to rural areas via wireless broadband, I would not be greatly concerned. Moreover, I expect that is what Eircom would have done if it had won the competition. However, that is a different issue and one which the witnesses probably do not want to deal with today. As I said, my concern is the reliance on mobile cellular broadband which, although an exciting technology, has huge limitations.

Mr. Pat Galvin

The Deputy makes a valid point. My colleague, Mr. Shakespeare, has given the technical explanation. As I said, this is a decision the Government has made. The market is evolving. I expect there will be further progress in the capacity of mobile networks; that is the nature of the technology platforms concerned. It may not be as static as it is now.

As part of the wider review of what we do, we look at NBS areas. We cannot make any commitments in this regard but it is likely that we will go ahead and upgrade some exchanges within the NBS area. Eircom has a wider remit in terms of a universal commitment to rural areas. As such, we may make decisions to deliver broadband using our technology even though we did not win the NBS contract. It also relates to what Deputy Coveney said about alternatives for people living in these areas. They may not be restricted to mobile broadband, depending on how the market develops in coming years.

Mr. Geoff Shakespeare

Would Deputy Coveney like us to expand further on issues relating to wireless broadband?

No, I merely wanted to confirm what I suspected to be the case.

Mr. Geoff Shakespeare

The other question was why we are testing rather than simply going ahead and building next-generation access. In 2006, we retained a consultancy company to undertake an evaluation on the basis of its global experience, having worked in Germany, Israel and other countries, on next-generation access roll-outs and the associated business cases. This company subsequently came back to us with its view of what the cost base would be. We then made the decision that we needed more empirical evidence than just a desktop study. There are variables to take into account. For example, our line lengths are longer and our population densities are lower.

When we had done the trial and extrapolated a cost, it turned out the cost was 50% higher than indicated by the desktop evaluation. This encouraged us to take the results from Dundrum and Stillorgan and apply the lessons we learned there to six other sites throughout the State. In other words, we essentially did the desktop exercise again on the basis of what was gleaned from Stillorgan and Dundrum. We have applied this to sites as diverse as Kilkenny, Donegal and one of the sites in Cork. The data we have extrapolated are based on all this, not just the findings from Dundrum and Stillorgan. As a result of this process, we have changed how the cabinets are powered and the process of deployment. Much of this is specific to our particular environment. Access networks tend to be country-unique and operator-unique. We have learned much from the trial, sufficient to inform the cost line and execution line of the business case we are preparing.

Mr. Pat Galvin

I ask my colleague, Mr. Paul Bradley, to provide a brief summary of the broadband upgrade programme, which was of concern to the Deputy.

Mr. Paul Bradley

More than 1.4 million telephone lines pre-qualify for broadband which corresponds to slightly less than 720 exchanges. We made a commitment to reach a target of approximately 900, which means we have 200 exchanges left to do — I understand the figure is 240. We have not yet reached every community, but we are down to those exchanges where the average number of customers connected is in the region of 300 to 400. In other words, we are dealing now with the most rural areas. Some Members are in regular contact with us through the press office about updates on roll-outs and so on. I encourage everybody to avail of our recently launched website, www.broadbandatoz.ie. This provides constituency and county maps and should be of assistance to Deputies in dealing with queries they receive and to the public in general.

The website is excellent and has been most helpful.

Mr. Paul Bradley

Thank you.

What is the timeframe for the upgrade of the remaining 240 exchanges?

Mr. Paul Bradley

We gave an initial deadline of the end of 2009, but some slippage is likely. Problems inevitably emerge when these types of projects are being rolled out. Since 2006, we have gone from approximately 500 exchanges to in excess of 700. Exchanges are currently being rolled out at the rate of ten to 12 per month, but we expect this to escalate. One of the problems we are experiencing with the smaller exchanges is that it is not just a question of installing the DSL equipment but that various other upgrades are required. That is what causes some of the delays.

Are there plans to upgrade the lines to deal with the problems that arise at distances of more than 2 km?

Mr. Paul Bradley

Once an exchange is enabled, there are two issues that will prevent customers from obtaining service. The first is distance. Regardless of which type of copper line is involved, there is a problem if the distance is more than approximately 5 km. The distance from an individual's home or business is measured not as the crow flies but in terms of how the network runs. After a particular distance, the signal becomes so weak that it does not allow the modem to synchronise up for DSL broadband.

Are there plans to deal with this issue?

Mr. Paul Bradley

In essence, this is a limitation of the technology and, as such, it is difficult to overcome. The reality is that the signal weakens over a distance. The signal can travel much further through a fibre technology than it can over a copper technology, which leads to a larger question.

In effect, Mr. Bradley is saying there is no hope for anybody who lives more than 3 km from an exchange.

Mr. Paul Bradley

I would say 5 km. Yes, that is the reality. We turn the signal on——

In other words, Eircom is abandoning people in rural areas.

Mr. Paul Bradley

I do not accept that. There are other options that are occasionally available to customers——

Occasionally is not good enough.

Mr. Paul Bradley

The distance issue is a problem that any country or company providing DSL broadband over a telephone line will face. This is a challenge for the technology. The signal weakens over a distance and it does not matter whether the copper line was put in yesterday or whether it has been there for five years. There is a physical limitation on the technology and it is a challenge. The other reason someone might not be able to get a signal at home relates to carriers, where the line is split. This does not affect the telephone service. During the roll-out of the network in the 1980s, long before broadband was invented, the telephone service could share lines. Unfortunately, that prevents broadband and where we can, and where there is spare capacity to remove the shared line, we do so. That is another cause of difficulty for some customers, whose exchange is enabled but who may not be able to get a broadband signal.

Are there plans to address that issue?

Mr. Paul Bradley

We have a programme to look at it on a case by case basis on whether there is spare capacity to remove the carrier from the lines of those who want broadband. One customer may not necessarily want broadband and we cannot facilitate the request of the other person who does. That is our approach at present.

Is that why the €120 fee is charged to the customer?

Mr. Paul Bradley

I am not familiar with that fee.

This is a regular occurrence, where people are told they must pay €120 up front to upgrade the carrier line. Then Eircom will see if the customer is close enough to the exchange to receive a broadband service. People do not have a problem with the fee of €120 in principle if they receive a service but they are given no commitment by Eircom that there will be a service after paying the fee of €120. Customers pay €120 for a pig in a poke. Will Mr. Bradley comment on my question on the legality of carrier lines?

Mr. Paul Bradley

I am not familiar with any fee for carrier removal.

I am familiar with it.

Mr. Paul Bradley

I do not know of any policy of the company to charge €120 to remove the carrier. Carriers are a legacy of the roll-out of the network in the 1980s. There is no universal service for broadband at this time. Carriers may not affect customer service if the customers want voice services. I do not know the legal situation about whether the carriers must be removed. From a regulatory point of view I do not know of any relevant point.

Mr. Pat Galvin

We are very closely regulated and we have a minimum standard of telephone line. As Mr. Bradley mentioned, that is part of the legacy regulatory definition of what we are required to do for voice telephony. Carriers fit within this definition legally. An emerging debate, particularly in the EU, concerns reviewing the universal service directive so that, instead of having an obligation on Eircom to provide voice telephony, there may be an obligation to provide broadband. This would have major implications for the issue the Deputy has raised. It would involve Eircom committing to significantly greater capital investment all over the country. Whether for a one-off house five miles from the exchange or a flat in a densely populated part of the city, we would have to provide a minimum standard of broadband. Clearly that is a major decision, with much stakeholder interest, and I expect the committee to be closely involved in that if the proposal to change the universal service definition comes to fruition and the debate takes place next year.

I would like to move on to the issue of telephone kiosks.

I want to ask a question that has a "Yes" or "No" answer. Deputy Naughten referred to the congestion of lines, which relates to an urban environment rather than a rural one. The delegation is probably familiar with the Irish company Intune Networks. The technology provided by the company or some form of similar technology can dramatically increase output and capacity of the existing network. Is Eircom examining this type of technology?

Mr. Geoff Shakespeare

We have had discussion with Intune Networks and we have evaluated what it does. What has emerged is that the Intune Networks technology relates to the core network and how one ships large bandwidth around more efficiently. Without a fat access network, one does not need the extra horsepower. We are interested in the company. It has delivery time-lines for its infrastructure that do not suit the first phase of what we are doing. We have met Intune Networks three times and we are familiar with what the company does. It is very interesting.

It seems to be a cost efficient way of dramatically upgrading the capacity of the core network.

Mr. Geoff Shakespeare

Yes, I have seen the demonstrations. What is refreshing about the company is its ambition to be the Irish Cisco. When Intune Networks is nearing production we will be very interested in talking to it. That is where we have left matters.

I suggest we move on.

Mr. Pat Galvin

The background to the presentation on telephone kiosks is to give an indication of technology and consumer change in terms of habits, availing of new services and leaving behind old ones. The market for public pay phones has been in serious decline. Calls made have dropped by 80% for the past six years and revenue by over 70%. We have tried various promotions in providing new services and price reductions to halt the decline. However, pay phones continue to be significantly loss-making. Call volumes have decreased dramatically since the financial year 2000-03. The bar chart in our presentation puts some data on the point I am making about the decline in our business.

Why is this happening? The first reason is the extraordinary impact of mobile phone services over the past half generation. We have 115% penetration, in other words, more telephones than people. There is also significant landline penetration, although that is in decline. There are other services such as prepaid calling cards that people do not need a pay phone for because they can use a landline or a mobile telephone. It may not be widely known that a significant number of pay phone customers were incoming tourists and the reason they used pay phones was the cost of mobile roaming. Even though they had their mobile phones from America or France in their pockets it was cheaper to use a pay phone because of the very high roaming charges. Significant regulatory initiatives, led by Brussels, to reduce roaming charges make it more economical for people to use their mobile phones on holidays. They do not need a pay phone.

From a social perspective the pay phone is irrelevant. We regard it as the telex of our day; it is a case of technology obsolescence to the extent that people do not need to use a pay phone. This is not an Irish phenomenon — AT&T, the biggest traditional carrier in the US, has exited the business and in the UK BT is undertaking the same rationalisation process as Eircom. We are not removing all pay phones, we are simply rationalising the business and reducing approximately 2,000 from approximately 4,800 sites. The average weekly revenue of all these designated pay phones is €9, which is less than €500 per year. In preparation for this meeting I looked at some examples and we have a pay phone in Rosegreen in Cashel in Tipperary which had an annual revenue of €30 last year and one in——

Mr. Aidan O'Brien does not use the mobile phones at all.

Mr. Pat Galvin

We had one in Newtowncashel in Longford where the total revenue for the year was €73 and one in Ballyhooly in Cork with revenue of €214 for the year. These are examples but they give a fair indication of the type of problems we face if the cost of keeping the pay phone in place is considered. The revenue required to break even is approximately €1,130, and that is the criterion from which we are selecting these pay phones.

We are not taking this decision lightly and we are very conscious of the need to have consultation with the local community. We have initiated that consultation process and had detailed discussions with ComReg. We will meet local authority officials and, for example, we will meet representatives from Kerry County Council next week. We are listening to the concerns of local representatives and communities and are prepared to take the views of all parties into account.

I seek the understanding of the committee as to why we are doing this and stress that we are conscious of the social impact. The statistics used show there has been a massive decline in the social benefits being brought by pay phones because of alternatives like mobile phones. We intend to make a final decision by the end of March and we are engaged in dialogue with many local authorities and communities. Our purpose today is to explain why we are doing this and offer to do it as carefully and sensitively as possible.

I thank the witnesses. The figures speak for themselves as they are very clear-cut. Mr. Galvin has indicated there will be a final decision by the end of March but what will that entail?

Mr. Pat Galvin

In individual cases we have started the consultation process in January and we have had that period for local communities to make contact with us. In some cases there has been no representation and in others there have been quite serious representations. Our intention was to finalise all of this by the end of March. Given that it is now the middle of March, we do not have to achieve that date.

It relates to the phones to be decommissioned.

Mr. Pat Galvin

In the event of long discussions with local interests we can push that back and it is not a problem to do so.

I will not take as long with this contribution. I understand where Eircom is coming from as a company on the matter as the commercial attraction of pay phones has collapsed. With regard to consultation, there is a strategic interest in keeping pay phones in terms of Ireland Inc. in certain areas. Has the company spoken to representatives from Fáilte Ireland about this? There is still a significant usage importance for people travelling, particularly from the United States. These people may not be sure how the roaming system works or how the international calling system works.

For people coming from other countries, particularly outside the European Union, there is a need for pay phones, be they in airports or other areas with many tourists. For example, a town like Killarney must have more than its fair share of pay phones because it gets much more tourist trade than the average town.

The tourist is a key component in this matter, although I know the company needs some financial return for keeping a piece of infrastructure in place. These are social issues but there is also a safety issue in isolated parts of Ireland that may not have mobile phone coverage, including islands such as Cape Clear or Sherkin. Even if there is only €20 or €30 of calls per month in these places, the company has a responsibility to keep an infrastructure in place to ensure there is connectivity between isolated parts of Ireland, even with very small populations, and the mainland in the case of islands. There are other isolated parts of rural Ireland.

This is not about commerce and the economics of having a pay phone. I do not have significant concern about removing pay phones that are not being used in cities or towns and that are potential targets for vandals. The new generation will use mobile phones. Phones should remain in isolated rural areas and tourist destinations, as well as strategic locations such as bus stations, airports, ferry terminals and so on. In such areas people will either have a foreign mobile phone that may not work or else they will not have a phone at all. There is a social responsibility in that case to keep an adequate network of pay phones around the country. To be fair, the company accepts that.

Mr. Pat Galvin

We certainly do.

As the witness is beside Mr. Shakespeare I am tempted to quote Oscar Wilde, who said "I can resist everything except temptation". The temptation, which I will resist, is to argue that all the places mentioned were in rural Ireland and the company is quick to take the services from there but not to put them back in.

I welcome the company's involvement in consultation with the local communities and county councils, which is important. We should get an assurance that before any pay phones are removed from a community, there should be discussion with the local people and it will not be taken out in the dead of night.

Do the witnesses believe the current economic recession will have any impact on the use of phones? What happens with regard to the recycling of pay phones? What happens when they are taken away? I could tell some interesting stories about some of the older ones which were taken away previously. If a community or company had an idea for them, would they be made available to them?

Mr. Pat Galvin

I will ask Mr. Bradley to comment on the valid points made by Deputy Coveney relating to tourism and our consultation process. To answer the latest point, I have examples of pay phones in urban areas that have equally poor revenue records and if necessary, I can provide those.

On a serious point about the economic recession, I understand representatives from ComReg were here approximately a month ago and forecast that the general revenue in the sector will decline by approximately 5% this year to reflect general slowdown in consumer activity. The sector generally contributes approximately €4.4 billion to the Irish economy and approximately 2.5% of GNP. Any significant impact on the sector must be factored into the bigger issues we spoke of earlier in terms of investment. It is a worrying time, not just for the telecoms sector but for everybody.

I will ask Mr. Bradley to address some of the other questions raised.

Mr. Paul Bradley

On the point regarding tourism and safety, these factors are being considered. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in many cases as areas in which usage levels have remained the same are exactly as the Deputy outlined with regard to airports and tourist areas. Some 2,151 are proposed to be removed, which leaves approximately 2,500 or 2,600 in place, so a significant number of pay phones will remain. Pay phones could be individually taken out, so where there are double kiosks there could be a reduction to a single kiosk. Access is being maintained.

With regard to the distribution of the pay phone network across rural and urban areas, there are 380 pay phones in Dublin which are coming out. The removals are evenly distributed in as much as it is the network reflection of those being used. We have received queries from individuals who, for whatever reason, may want a pay phone and from communities which would like to retain kiosks as facilities where they are of benefit to them. We have received approaches and are willing to consider any we receive from people or businesses that may envisage other opportunities in terms of the kiosks when they are removed.

I was specifically requested to ask a question and I have left it to the end of the meeting to do so. It relates to the first question I asked about funding in Eircom. I do not expect a long answer but I would like a brief indication in response. In regard to pensions for former Eircom workers, does the company have a significant pension deficit? Many other companies face a similar problem. I raise this question because the representatives of that company are before the committee and this is a former State company with considerable pension payment obligations annually. It faces the same pension crisis that I expect many other companies face. I wanted to get a flavour of what that involves as it will impact on the company's financial viability in terms of investment.

Mr. Paul Galvin

We indicated last week in the context of other issues that we have a pension deficit. We are no different from most companies in that respect.

Has Mr. Galvin a figure for the deficit?

Mr. Paul Galvin

Yes, it is €433 million. I will ask Mr. Paul Bradley to reply on that as he would have dealt with the details of it.

Mr. Paul Bradley

We announced with our results that there was a current pension deficit of €433 million. It is largely being driven by the fall in the value of assets in the form of investments and the return on them. We are not dissimilar to other Irish companies that face these challenges. We are currently in the process of addressing, through formal partnership, not only ongoing business issues and cost structures but a line of the communication that will specifically relate to the pension issue to find a constructive way through this. That issue will be addressed in discussions that will take place in the coming weeks.

Will they be discussions between employers and unions essentially?

Mr. Paul Bradley

That is correct. This is a long-term problem in the sense that it must be addressed but it will not be solved today or tomorrow. That is reflected in the fact that all companies face a reduction in the value of their pensions funds. This is a serious matter that is being addressed and hopefully a solution will be found.

I thank Mr. Galvin and his colleagues for their input.

Chairman, I apologise for intervening——

The Deputy will have to be brief.

I will be. I was in the Chamber earlier and I apologise for not being here. An EU study on pay phones published last year shows there is still a strong use of them by the public. It was reported that 20% of Irish citizens still use them. Therefore there is still a substantial use of them. Furthermore, there is a safety aspect to public phones being available in rural Ireland.

We had that discussion while the Deputy was away from the meeting.

I thank Mr. Galvin and his colleagues, Mr. Shakespeare and Mr. Bradley, for their comprehensive presentation. We strayed from the subject a little at times. I thank them for facilitating us with their presence and for their answers to our questions.

The joint committee adjourned at 12.05 p.m. until 9.45 a.m. on Wednesday, 25 March 2009.
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