We will now consider the Fisheries (Miscellaneous Commercial Licences) (Alterations of Duties) Order 2004. I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Gallagher, with special responsibility for marine matters. The Dáil and Seanad have, by order, referred that Order to this committee for consideration. I apologise for the delay but our earlier discussions ran over time.
Fisheries (Miscellaneous Commercial Licences) (Alterations of Duties) Order 2004.
I welcome the opportunity to outline the rationale behind this motion.
The motion seeks the committee's approval for the Fisheries (Miscellaneous Commercial Licences) (Alterations of Duties) Order 2004 which prescribes the licence fees payable in respect of salmon, eel and oyster commercial fishing and for dealers' licences on and from 1 January 2005. Members will recall that the joint committee gave its approval to a similar motion on 16 December 2003 for increases to such licences from 2004.
This increase results in a significant rise in the cost of licence fees for this year given the rate of inflation which applied since the last increase — an increase not made in the previous year but a number of years before. When presenting the motion to the joint committee last year, my colleague and predecessor, Deputy John Browne, gave an undertaking that in future all salmon fishing licence increases would be applied in line with the consumer price index on an annual basis. In keeping with that commitment, the licence fee increases now proposed for 2005 are set at a rate of 3.5% to allow for inflation since last increased in January 2003. I also intend to increase the salmon rod licence fee for 2005 by 3.5% in line with inflation. This will be done under a separate order, assuming it is approved by the committee.
Application of the licence fees proposed will mean that all licence duties in respect of inland fisheries will continue to be set. This will be done in a fair and equitable manner. We can only learn from the past. There was a long period when there was no increase, which consequently resulted in a substantial increase. We have learnt from that. From now on, under my mandate and this Government, it is intended to increase the fee on a yearly basis in line with the rate of inflation.
Members know that any increases in licence fees will not go to the Department of Finance. They will be ring-fenced and go to the various fisheries boards with a regulatory responsibility and responsibility for development, management and conservation. In addition to the Exchequer grants for 2005 of almost €22 million, the sale of licences will further support the boards' ability to maintain the services they provide.
I must interrupt because there is a vote in the Dáil. We shall suspend until after the division.
Sitting suspended at 5.55 p.m. and resumed at 6.05 p.m.
Apologies for the disruption which was due to an important vote for the Labour Party in the House. We must allow democracy to take its course. Does the Minister of State wish to make any concluding remarks?
In addition to the sum of almost €22 million in Exchequer grants in 2005, the proceeds from the sale of licences will further support the Central Fisheries Board's ability to maintain services. According to the board, the proposed increases in all licence fee categories, both commercial and rod angling, are expected to generate — it is difficult to be exact but it is a fair guesstimate — approximately €50,000 extra in revenue for fishery boards in 2005. At the risk of repeating myself, this will be ring-fenced and reinvested by the boards directly in the ongoing management and development of inland fisheries.
I thank the Chairman and members of the committee for their attention. I would welcome any questions they may have on the motion.
I welcome the Minister of State's announcement. Having the salmon fishing licence fee index-linked makes good economic sense and is better than having an accumulation of increases applied in one year. It is also welcome that the Minister of State has indicated the money will be ring-fenced for the seven regional fisheries boards. Inland fisheries are doing excellent work. I would like to think we could allocate more money to them for the very important work of stocking rivers and lakes. The Minister of State should look at those lakes which have not been restocked having received no funds from the Central Fisheries Board for years.
We are talking about the development of tourism. I noted that the Minister of State made a statement on the use of drift nets, an issue we will discuss again. An article in this week's Sunday Independent offered two opinions on the use of drift and draft nets. The greatest source of income in the economy is tourism. To get a good return on an investment of €22 million, the emphasis should be on angling tourism. In this context, the Minister of State should speak to Mr. O’Connor, chief executive officer of the Central Fisheries Board. I hope we can look at the development of angling tourism in conjunction with Fáilte Ireland.
We may see a structural change affecting the seven regional fisheries boards as we have with the elimination of the health boards. The Minister of State will need to consider the justification for having seven regional fisheries boards, perhaps working in different directions. From my experience of working with the Committee of Public Accounts I know the 11 health boards had seven different computer systems. I hope there is compatibility within the seven regional fisheries boards as the opportunities are huge. I have no doubt, however, that the Minister of State is aware of the possibilities in this critical sector. I am confident that he will deal with this matter in a business-like manner and awaken the opportunities in inland fisheries.
I apologise for missing a substantial part of the meeting. I needed to be in the Dáil Chamber to deal with a private notice question I tabled concerning the Irish Ferries dispute. I welcome the Minister of State to the committee. As stated in the Dáil, I understand he has been involved in the ongoing discussions on the Irish Ferries dispute which now involves a lockout which is disastrous for our trade. The good offices of the Minister of State could be very important regarding the routes to France. I understand he spent many hours last week exploring a number of possibilities with the trade unions, particularly SIPTU. A continuation of this work by him would be very fruitful. For an early resolution of this matter it is important that he works closely with the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment.
As my Fine Gael colleague said, index-linking fee increases is a better way to do business. I believe this time last year we had to have a Dáil vote on a huge increase in the salmon licence fee which had remained unchanged for more than a decade. Increasing fees in line with inflation is a more efficient way to proceed.
I welcome the ring-fencing of funds for the regional fisheries boards. We are all familiar with their good work. I echo Deputy Perry's comments on the importance of the angling industry. In the time of the Minister of State's predecessor the Central Fisheries Board and others presented reports showing the importance of angling and the protection of our rivers and fish stocks.
I urge the Minister of State to be brave on the salmon issue. Before the last general election, my party took the view that we should proceed to buy out the drift net licences, given the importance of the revenue from angling to the tourism industry and the country generally. Obviously, certain fishermen are making a livelihood which also needs to be protected. When he held this portfolio, Deputy Browne took some steps to try to ease the pressure. The Minister of State should consider this matter in a determined way to see if we can protect salmon fishing, in particular. Given that we now seem to be alone in Europe and have been severely criticised by Icelanders and others on the matter, I urge the Minister of State to look at it in a positive way.
I am glad a handbrake has been put on increases which will now be index-linked. I come at the issue of a buy-out from a different angle to Deputies Broughan and Perry. As the Minister of State is aware, a sub-committee of this committee has been established to consider the future of the salmon industry. It is critical that drift and draft net operators are brought on board in a sensitive fashion. I do not dispute the huge significance of the rod fishermen and their value to the tourism industry etc. However, we must acknowledge that some families have been involved in such fishing for decades and must be brought on board. As with the peace process in the North, this must be done by consensus. They have constitutional rights and must be dealt with in a sensitive fashion.
There is a perception, with which I would not concur, that drift and draft net operators have done considerable damage to the salmon industry. Having spent nearly 20 years as a member of the costal management committee of Cork County Council I am aware that greater damage was done by pollution from other sources, including local authorities, on river beds where the salmon came to spawn. It is very easy to blame a few lads with small boats working for a limited number of days off the coast trying to eke out a living. I certainly would not concur with that view. The damage done to some of our finest rivers such as the Blackwater and other estuaries, particularly in Munster, by ongoing severe pollution from sources such as the local authorities, among others, cannot be forgotten.
While I have a certain sympathy, at the same time I am keeping a broad and open mind on the possibility of buying out the licences of salmon fishermen. I hope the sub-committee which has been established to examine the matter will send its report to the Minister in the next six months. In this regard, I am inclined to defend the traditional fishermen. Their negative impact in terms of what has happened in the past 20 years is minuscule when compared to what has happened in other sectors. While I appreciate what the boards are trying to do, we should look forward rather than back. It would be wrong to blame traditional fishermen for the downturn in salmon stocks.
The committee has engaged a consultant to assist it in writing its report on salmon fishing, angling and draft and drift net fishing. It will engage with the industry and the fishing bodies. It would appreciate any help the Minister of State and his officials could give it before it concludes its report.
I commend the Minister of State for his efforts in respect of Irish Ferries. I received a telephone call on Saturday night from Mr. Seán Delaney, a haulier in Cork. Fifty of his company's trucks cannot deliver goods and services from companies in the Munster region to the United Kingdom because they are held up. I hope this serious problem will be resolved as quickly as possible as a result of the efforts of the Minister of State and all concerned.
I thank the Chairman. Before I address the salmon issue, I wish to speak about Irish Ferries. The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment answered private notice questions on the matter in the Dáil today. When I became aware of the difficulties about the flagging of the mv Normandy, I met representatives of SIPTU and the Seamen’s Union of Ireland at the request of the five Deputies who represent the Wexford constituency.
I am well aware of the seriousness of the problem. I became familiar with the concerns of Irish Ferries employees who protested outside Leinster House during last week's initial one-day stoppage when I spent over an hour discussing some of the issues with them. I have great respect for trade unions which have served the country well, the Labour Court and the Labour Relations Commission. While it was not for me to interfere, I felt there was a need for somebody to take an initiative to try to bring both sides together. When I spoke with the management of Irish Ferries after my meeting with the trade union, I suggested a formula that could bring both sides together.
I wish to make it abundantly clear to the committee that I did not want to become involved, as it is not in my remit to do so. The structures which have served us well during the years will play an important role in resolving this dispute. While I spoke to both sides, I was unable to bring them together. I worked late on the matter over the weekend and will continue to work with my colleague, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, but the problems will not be resolved until people start to speak to each other. We should not have to wait weeks for this to happen.
The committee is aware that 99% of our exports are exported through our ports. Having visited Dublin Port today, I realise more than ever that the services provided by our ports are important. The employees and management of Irish Ferries have their own interests but the national interest should be the over-arching concern. Both sides should leave their baggage behind and come together to continue to provide services. They can have discussions with a view to resolving the difficulties while that service is being provided.
I assure Deputy Perry that I am aware of the importance of inland fisheries to the tourism industry. Indigenous and visiting anglers make an important contribution to the economy and job creation in places where few jobs have been created. However, if I were to follow that logic, I would be in favour of a buy-out but I am not. It is not proposed to pursue such a policy during the lifetime of the Government's mandate. I wish to consider the financial implications of such a policy. The committee is aware that 56 licences were bought out in the north east of England at a cost of approximately £3.5 million. If this country's 880 licences were bought out at a similar cost, they would cost just under €100 million. The provision of such funds should not be the responsibility of the Government because it should not be responsible for the transfer of wealth.
I do not wish to enter into a debate on the matter, although I might think about it when I see the colour of the money being put on the table by those who are anxious to engage in a buy-out. My strong view is that we can find a balance between the interests of traditional commercial fishermen and the angling fraternity. I have been informed by scientists that there is a surplus of fish. We must establish how we can exploit the surplus of salmon in the best interests of anglers and commercial fishermen. This balance is vitally important.
That an industry has been built around Irish smoked salmon should be borne in mind when one considers a buy-out could mean that no wild fish would be caught. I do not refer to smoked Irish salmon but to Irish smoked salmon. It is important to remember that fish caught by the rod cannot be sold. It does not matter how many fish are caught as there is not the critical mass to sustain the important smoked salmon industry that also provides jobs. A number of factors have to be examined. While it may be popular to say we will sanction a buy-out, we have to be realistic. Deputies Broughan and Perry and all other parties seem to agree we need to find a balance.
I wish to discuss the tourism aspect of the matter. The committee is aware that my predecessor appointed a consortium of consultants led by Farrell Grant Sparks Consulting Limited, which also included the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science and the National Institute for Regional and Spatial Analysis, to undertake an high level review of the inland fisheries sector. The purpose of the review which is ongoing is to undertake a root and branch examination of the State's roles and objectives in the sector. The consultants who have been given terms of reference have been asked to evaluate the adequacy of the current model for the governance of the sector and define the current relationship between the Government and the Department or Departments.
I wish to emphasise, in response to Deputy Perry, that other Departments can play an important role in this regard. When the consultants' report has been made available to me, I suggest it should be made available generally as a consultative document. Regardless of how much I might favour it, it would be too dictatorial to make it available as a fait accompli. The Deputy has drawn a comparison with the health boards' structure by arguing it is possible to have too many fisheries boards. He has argued they should be based around river basins. I do not intend to take an entrenched position until the report has been made available. All stakeholders and political parties should have an opportunity to make an input, although this could take some time.
I dealt with the Irish Ferries dispute in Deputy Broughan's absence. I thank both Deputies for their kind words. We are here to try to help and facilitate. We do not wish to interfere with it but to be used as a type of vehicle to bring us to the door of the Labour Court. Deputy O'Donovan referred to the forthcoming report on wild salmon angling in his part of the country. I look forward to receiving it. I hope we can feed everyone's views into the review before taking a final decision on the matter.
The catching of salmon through the use of drift and draft nets is not the only issue. It may not be popular to say this but we must also look at the effect seals have. The comment has been made during the years that more salmon are destroyed by seals at sea than are ever landed. Perhaps it is just a throwaway remark but we cannot have an overarching report without considering all aspects of the matter. | remember that many years ago there were in excess of 40 boats from Arranmore Island fishing using drift and draft nets. Now there are five. I refer to it as a microcosm of national circumstances. While there is natural wastage, landings continue to drop.
Deputy O'Donovan is correct to refer to pollution. Last week a meeting was held with interested parties fishing lakes in the west. It encompassed the Departments of Agriculture and Food, the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. While the issue cannot be resolved overnight, there is a firm commitment on the part of the Government to address the issue. Under the terms of the national development plan and during the term in office of the Government, there will have been an investment of €5.4 billion in the water investment programme, a substantial part of which is relevant to the subject under discussion.
I take the Chairman's point about the appointment of a consultant whom I know from a previous incarnation. Officials in the relevant section and I will be more than willing to work with the committee and its consultant and provide them with any information available to us.
If there are questions I have overlooked, I will answer them, if prompted.
I thank the Minister of State for appearing before the committee.