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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC REGULATORY AFFAIRS debate -
Tuesday, 19 Oct 2010

Operational Efficiency and Strategy: Discussion with Commission for Taxi Regulation

This meeting is to discuss the operational efficiency of the Commission for Taxi Regulation and the recently published Strategy Statement 2010-2014.

On behalf of the committee, I welcome Ms Kathleen Doyle, Taxi Regulator, and Ms Jennifer Gilna, head of corporate affairs.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in regard to a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

There is to be a live webcast of this meeting. I ask Ms Doyle to proceed with her presentation.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

I thank the Chairman for inviting us. I have a short presentation on our mission, our outputs for the period 2005 to 2009, our Strategy Statement 2010-2014, new reforms for the small public service vehicle, SPSV, industry for the period 2010 to 2011, our current funding model, our resourcing and outsourcing, and some statistical information.

The mission of the commission, acting in the interest of stakeholders, is to provide a regulatory framework that enables compliant and professional SPSV licence holders to provide a first-class, efficient, safe, accessible and customer-friendly service. An SPSV can carry up to eight passengers and can be a taxi, hackney or limousine. The mission is also to facilitate access to SPSV services by all users, including people with disabilities; to promote increasing standards of quality; and to promote the integration of SPSV services into the wider public transport system.

The commission was established in 2004. Its initial five-year work programme, covering the period 2005 to 2009, focused on the establishment of a regulatory system based on qualitative entries and renewal standards for the industry. All standards have been phased in to allow existing operators to adopt this regulatory model based on high-quality standards. Consumers are happy with the level of supply and have noted an increase in quality standards as a result of the economic review undertaken in the industry in 2008 and published in 2009.

On page 5 of our submission, one will see the number of SPSVs before and after liberalisation. By the time the taxi commission was established, there were 20,744 vehicles nationally. This number increased to an industry peak in 2008 of 27,000 vehicles. The equilibrium we expected has occurred and the market has determined its own numbers. There are now 25,811 vehicles, which include taxis, hackneys and limousines right across the country.

For the period 2005 to 2009, our primary outputs included a national vehicle licensing system. A new national taxi meter area was introduced and a new national maximum fare was established. The first such fare was introduced in 2006. We reviewed it in 2008 and again this year. We introduced a new national and secure driver identity card that must be displayed on the dashboard of a vehicle, and a small smartcard that drivers must carry. We established and maintained a national register of vehicle driver and dispatch operator licences. We introduced a new dispatch operator licensing system and a wheelchair-accessible vehicle register. Joint administration of driver licensing with the Garda was achieved and a national complaints system was established. New vehicle standards were published and new driver standard requirements were put in place.

For the period 2005 to 2009, our primary outputs in terms of compliance included the recruitment of a dedicated enforcement team, the introduction of a new fixed-charge penalty system, a national prosecutions function, and joint operations with other enforcement agencies such as the Revenue Commissioners, the Department of Social Protection and the Garda. Consumer complaints were investigated and we collected and disseminated statistical information on compliance levels.

With regard to industry data collection and information provision, we have an industry information line, a consumer information line, industry and consumer publications, a dedicated website, a national consumer complaints process and in-vehicle information for consumers. Regulatory impact analysis is carried out before making any decisions. Taxi rank planning guidelines for local authorities have been drawn up and statistical information on the industry in Ireland has been collated and distributed as required.

Our key five objectives for the period 2010 to 2014 are to continue to develop and maintain the regulatory framework for the SPSV industry in Ireland; to facilitate access to high-quality SPSV services by all users, particularly those with disabilities; to enhance quality assurance for SPSV users and service providers; to partner and engage with stakeholders to progress statutory and strategic objectives; and to promote the integration of SPSV services into the wider transport system.

For the period 2010 to 2012, the new reform package announced was the issue of wheelchair-accessible licences only from 2010. This commenced in June 2010. The rationale involved the provision of accessible services to all consumers and ensuring that the commission reaches its accessible services target of 10%.

There is now no further transferability of new taxi licences, and that is to reduce second-hand market activity in regard to the standard licences. Transferability of current licences is restricted in that a person with an actual taxi licence who had a legitimate expectation to transfer a licence can do so once more, but only to a newer vehicle.

Our nine-year age rule for standard taxis and hackneys has been fast-tracked to 2011. This rule has been fast-tracked to this year for anybody changing a vehicle. We have driver standards allowing for incumbent drivers to undertake the skills development programme, which is being rolled out by the commission. That is fast-tracked and is to be undertaken by all drivers to increase driver standards by 2012.

Prior to making any decision for the industry, we undertake an onerous consultation process. On page 10 of our presentation, members will see the various consultation processes we have undertaken since 2005. These included the national review of vehicle standards and services, public consultations regarding taxi meter areas, taxi fares, vehicle standards, transferability of licences, an economic review of the impact of liberalisation of the market and another maximum fare review in 2010.

Following our onerous consultation processes, we carefully consider all submissions. We meet stakeholders nationally, including representative bodies of the industry. We receive advice and input from the advisory council to the commission, which has representatives from stakeholders including local authorities, the Garda, consumers, people with disabilities, tourism bodies, the Competition Authority and the Road Safety Authority.

The effects of liberalisation of the market on consumers include shorter and often no waiting times and a national and easy-to-understand fare structure. Consumer services are available from the commission, including complaints facilities, a dedicated information line, in-vehicle information and a website. Telephone booking is now the preferred method of hiring, as our research of recent years and of this year on the fare review demonstrates.

With regard to peak demand, 85% of trips take place between Thursday and Saturday. However, people with disabilities are still receiving a poorer service. Regarding our promotion of services for people with disabilities, our key objective is to make 10% of the fleet accessible. We have made several submissions to the Department of Transport seeking financial assistance to increase the proportion of the fleet that is accessible. Currently 6% of the fleet is wheelchair accessible and our goal is to increase it to 10% and upgrade the currently accessible fleet.

A new category of wheelchair-accessible hackney was rolled out this year. Operators with wheelchair accessible vehicles must prioritise service for people with disabilities. There is no additional charge for people with mobility aids or assistance dogs. We also have disability awareness training for drivers, designed with input from people with disability, as part of our skills development programme. We have investigated the extension of travel concessions for people with disabilities — free travel or voucher schemes — with the Department of Social Protection. We are considering how tactile and Braille licensing number testing can be put on all the equipment in the future. All our commission publications are in a variety of formats.

On the effects of liberalisation on the industry, drivers are working longer hours to achieve their income targets. A 2008 survey showed that full-time cab drivers experienced a reduction in real earnings of approximately 5% between 2005 and 2008. Our research this year — part of the fare review — showed that earnings have been significantly further reduced. Garda and commission enforcement activities have indicated low levels of non-compliance and an increasing level of price competition has taken place, with evidence of price discounting by despatch operators. There has been a significant decline in the number of active small public service vehicle licence holders as the market has reached the equilibrium I demonstrated on the graph earlier.

The range of services provided by the commission for industry members will include a dedicated industry information line, a website, a publication, quarterly industry news letters, strategy statements, action plans, corporate publications, regulatory impact analysis and information guides. We promote the increasing consumer use of the small public service vehicle services by advertising campaigns for the industry and we provide vehicle licensing services, despatch operator licensing services, driver identification cards and a compliance hotline for the industry.

The illustrations on page 14 show the difference prior to and since liberalisation. Inadequate supply has been addressed by good supply and long waiting times have been reduced so that we now have satisfied customers. Previously, there were more than 80 licensing authorities around the country. Now we have one licensing authority with a national licensing system. We had different taxi fares locally, but now we have a national maximum taxi fare. We had different taxi meter areas, but we now have a national taxi meter area. Consumers lacked understanding due to inadequate awareness. We now have enhanced consumer awareness and a dedicated website. There was a poorer service for people with disabilities, but we now have an increased supply of wheelchair accessible vehicles and we hope to increase that number in the future. In the past there was inadequate enforcement; we now have stronger enforcement with a dedicated team working closely with the Garda.

In the past there was no ongoing change in vehicle standards; we have now published new vehicle standards. There was no up to date training for the industry; we have now introduced a new skills development programme. There was no licensing requirement in the past for despatch operators — cab companies that provide booking services — but we have now put in new requirements for despatch operators. There was no national register of licences in the past; we have now compiled a new national register of vehicle licences, driver licences and despatch operator licences. All our publications are now in accessible format and for the first time we now have a centralised website for all information for the industry.

With regard to our current model of funding, we are a self-financing independent regulator. Our income comes from licence fees. The Taxi Regulation Act 2003 provides for income from licence fees to accrue to the commission. Currently, fees are collected from vehicle licensing, driver licensing and despatch operator licensing. Fixed charge penalties are also paid to the commission. Income from fees can be applied for the purpose of meeting the expenses of the commission. Any surplus income shall be disposed of in a manner determined by the commission with the agreement of the Minister for Transport and the Minister for Finance. We have surplus income available currently. As provided for by the Taxi Regulation Act, the commission submits its accounts to the Comptroller and Auditor General for audit, following which the annual report and financial statements are provided to the Minister for Transport. In terms of financial management, we have compliance with public sector financial management principles, with internal audits carried out regularly. The Comptroller and Auditor General audit takes place annually and we will continue to introduce savings across all expenditure programmes.

The commission has a resourcing and outsourcing model. We have a small dedicated team of staff to meet the commission's statutory objectives and to ensure daily effective operations, including customer services for licensing and information, project management, complaints, enforcement operations, a legal service that includes regulatory, advisory and prosecution services, corporate management to include financial controls and risk management, management of outsource services and internal organisation requirements. The three core areas of licensing are: vehicle licensing, small public service vehicle driver licensing and despatch operating licensing. With regard to outsourcing, we have outsourced a national vehicle licensing system, a national driver testing system, contact management, administration for courts, driver identification, IT development finance support and HR support.

The presentation document shows some statistics for the committee. The majority of licences are taxi licences and these make up 74% of the fleet. There are 25,811 active vehicle licences up to September 2010. Some 6% of these are for wheelchair accessible vehicles, 5% are limousines and 15% are hackneys. The number of licences increased from 13,000 in 2000 to 20,744 when we took over licensing in 2004 when the commission was established. The peak was in 2008 and there has been a decrease in active licences since 2008. Page 21 shows there has been a decrease in people coming into the industry since early 2008 and there are practically no new entrants to the industry now other than those driving wheelchair accessible vehicles. Page 22 deals with the issue of active driver licences. Not all licences are active. Many people have small public service driver licences but do not necessarily operate in the industry. There has been a decrease in the number of active licences and in the number of people renewing licences over recent years.

On compliance statistics, we had more complaints in 2008. The number of complaints decreased in 2009 and the decrease has continued in 2010. There has been an increase in fixed charge penalties between 2008 and 2009. Prosecutions have decreased since 2008 and have reached their lowest numbers in 2010. In the area of enforcement, in 2009 there was a total of 118 operational compliance visits across the country. Some 36 of these were joint operations with the Garda Síochána. Therefore, for a dedicated team of nine enforcement officers, a significant number of enforcement operations have taken place. The enforcement team is also responsible for investigating complaints. To date in 2010, there have been 110 operational visits, 49 of which have been with the Garda Síochána and 16 of which have also involved Revenue and the Department of Social Protection. The final statistics relate to our consumer and industry telephone lines. As can be seen, a considerable number of calls take place, with a maximum of 77,000 calls already received this year from the industry to our industry line.

I thank the committee and am happy to take any questions.

I welcome Ms Doyle and her colleague to the committee. What is the surplus income this year and for what is it being used? Was part of the surplus income used to produce the booklet presented before this committee today? I received a copy of the proposals and the presentation by e-mail and do not understand, therefore, given the times we are in, how anybody could justify a spend on an elaborate, glossy presentation such as the one we have here. I do not want to sound ‘holier than thou' about it, but we are all attuned to electronic media and I find this ridiculous.

Ms Doyle stated an "equilibrium" of 25,811 licences had been reached. How did she ascertain we have reached an equilibrium level, particularly when countless numbers of taxi drivers say there is over supply of licences in the market? She acknowledged that between 2005 and 2008 real income reduced by 5% and says there has been a further reduction since 2008. I represent a constituency with an urban rural mix, and given the number of taxi drivers who approach me with queries as to how they can obtain supplementary welfare income from the Department of Social Protection in lieu of income they are no longer earning, I suggest the reduction in income is far more stark than 5% or whatever the current figure is on reduction in earnings. The key issue is that taxi drivers with a licence are no longer making a living out of their licences. If I was to speak for drivers in smaller towns like Mallow, Mitchelstown and Fermoy, I would suggest there is an over-supply of licences within regional areas outside of the larger metropolitan areas and that the drivers are not able to make a living. Perhaps the point is that it is not their divine right to earn a living from taxi driving, but if there were some control or greater control over the number of licences issued full-time drivers who are trying to put food on the table might be able to make some kind of living without having to supplement their income with income from the Department of Social Protection. What are the delegates' views on this?

I understand the Competition Authority will have a separate view on licence numbers and competition but I fail to see how the Taxi Regulator can say we have reached equilibrium. I hope I did not misunderstand the regulator in this regard.

Reference was made to regulatory impact analyses. What is involved in the regulatory impact analysis of 25,000 licences in terms of the ability of the drivers to make a living? Is the latter factored in? The regulator stated she had carried out studies on real earnings. If so, she is considering sociological aspects or the economic cost of having an over-supply of licences or a set supply of licences. Did the regulatory impact analysis take into account the qualitative cost to individual licensees of having so many licences in the market at present?

I acknowledge we are experiencing an economic downturn and that there may be a downturn in business between Thursday to Saturday night. In my town, Mallow, for instance, 40 or 50 licence holders ply for trade on a relatively small rank on a Thursday afternoon. It is ridiculous and not sustainable. Where does one draw the line? Does one continue to say that any applicant who fulfils all the criteria should get a licence or does one say that a town such as Mallow has enough licences and that no more should be issued? This applies to every town of Mallow's size.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Surplus income is approximately €20 million. With regard to the expenditure on a glossy presentation, we always like to give committees a formal presentation. We always bring written copies with us. It is not always that we are asked for electronic versions. This is the first time we have been asked to send information electronically. Traditionally we have always brought hard copies for all members. We are always asked in advance by the committee to provide 20 copies of what we are to present. We are very happy to say the cost in this regard is very low. What we have produced looks glossy but it is actually not expensive.

Many presentations are produced for us on ordinary paper. This is the first time we have seen such a glossy presentation. While the committee asks for 20 copies, it certainly does not ask for them on paper of such quality.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

I accept the Chairman's point.

Was it printed externally? How much did it cost?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

I do not have it to hand but can forward it to the committee.

With regard to the point on equilibrium, we expected the market would at some point determine its own numbers. Members are probably aware that I do not have control over the numbers. Our role is to be a quality regulator rather than to impose quantitative restrictions. We do not have a remit to reduce quantitative restrictions in respect of numbers. To control numbers, we need to introduce quality standards for vehicles and drivers. That is what we are trying to do through the publication of vehicle standards and the roll-out of the driver skills programme on behalf of drivers.

The Deputy stated there was over-supply in some areas. Our economic review examined the impact of liberalisation of the market. It was undertaken in 2008 and published in 2009. While it acknowledged there is a strong supply, it did not see any reason for the introduction of a moratorium on the issuing of licences. We did not have a remit in this regard under the legislation of 2003.

We always expected that the market would determine its own numbers over time. People are finding it difficult to earn a living, as the Deputy stated. Our regulatory impact assessments are related to standards we are putting in place. For instance, when we examined vehicle standards we obviously had to have a regulatory impact assessment to determine the impact of new vehicle specifications and the costs to drivers of upgrading vehicles, and also the cost of introducing an age limit for vehicles. We carry out a regulatory impact analysis of licensing conditions. We do not carry out a regulatory impact assessment of the number of licences because it is not within our remit to reduce the number.

Reference was made to real earnings. I referred to the reported earnings from our driver survey. At the time of the economic review, we carried out a consumer survey and a driver survey. There was quite a difference in the real earnings figures reported in both surveys. The drivers reported that the average trip was worth €7 whereas consumers reported the average trip cost €15. We do not have real-time information on actual earnings but will be considering the capability of taxi meters to obtain accurate statistics on the earnings of drivers. We do not have such capability at present.

What does that mean?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

The taxi meter records the fare. Therefore, the total can be calculated at the end of the day. A taxi meter has the capability of a cash register and could potentially record the total earnings at the end of the day, which could then be submitted to us by the taxi driver.

Ms Doyle stated the regulatory impact is control over numbers through the establishment of rules to modify behaviour. The Taxi Regulator will continue to regulate the industry. Although there is a dip in numbers at present, they will probably increase in the longer term. Something will have to give at some stage. The current number is not sustainable. Nobody wanted a closed shop in the taxi industry. While there should be equilibrium between supply and demand, the regulator is referring to a false equilibrium because the number of drivers is not the optimum. Bearing in mind geographical variations, the dogs in the street know there are too many licences. People will say anecdotally one can get a taxi in Dublin at 4 a.m. on a Saturday and that one might not have been able to do so previously, but one must ask how this can be balanced with the over-supply in towns such as Mallow, Tralee and Killarney. There are drivers fighting each other for spaces on the main street. This Government and the next will have to take that into account. Surely the regulator will have to make a statement or adopt some position on supply and over-supply.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

We have taken a position on what we believe to be strong supply around the country in that we are not issuing standard taxi and hackney licences any more. We acknowledge there is strong supply on that side of the market. The side of the market that is weak relates to wheelchair-accessible vehicles. We have not placed a moratorium on the issuing of licences but are addressing the weak side of the market. We are quite conscious of the fact that there is a good supply of standard taxis and hackneys.

With regard to the number of drivers entering the industry, members should be aware that drivers are self-employed and make a business decision to enter the industry. They are finding it difficult at present because of the high level of competition.

I thank Ms Doyle for her far-ranging presentation. In a newly regulated industry or industry regulated in a different fashion than it was heretofore, there will be teething problems. The regulator says she has imposed a cap,per se, on standard licences. Is she in favour of introducing a system of buying back standard licences in order to address the over-supply that exists and of using some of the €20 million to help people who are stuck in an industry where to make a living they must work longer, often substantially longer, hours? The hours required would not fit in with the EU working time directive if it was applied. Many drivers cannot afford to continue in the industry, but cannot afford to leave it due to the lack of opportunity outside of it. Buying back licences might be an incentive for some drivers stuck in that rut.

I have become aware of another issue following the tragic deaths of a number of taxi drivers through suicide. Is there any role the commission can play in helping people in the industry to spot the warning signs of suicide or to help taxi drivers contemplating such drastic action or those affected by the loss of colleagues? I have met some drivers who are quite distraught and angry about the issue.

The regulator says she met stakeholders. Will she give us a rundown on what stakeholders attend such meetings other than consumer representatives, the Garda, the Department of Transport and representatives from the taxi industry? A question was raised with me with regard to the commission's website which allows the public access personal information on individual taxi drivers, even to the extent that the home address of the driver can be obtained. Has the regulator concerns about that level of access? I have written to her and the Data Protection Commissioner highlighting some of the concerns that were raised with me.

I welcome the attempt to address the issue of standards. Much progress has been made on this. However, there is concern that the new nine-year rule will have the effect of lowering the standard of some vehicles. People who drive nine year old Mercedes, Audi or similar calibre cars will not replace those cars with similar new models because they cannot afford to do so. Will that affect the standard of taxis? The nine-year rule does not apply to wheelchair accessible taxis. Does this mean it is all right to have a sub-standard vehicle for people with disabilities? I have some views on a solution, but it is not within the regulator's remit to take on my suggestion. I suggest the Minister for Finance could apply some type of VRT mechanism which would include a clawback that would prevent abuse.

My last question relates to part-time drivers. Has any survey been carried out or is any indication available as to the number of part-time drivers among the 25,000 or 26,000 active taxi licence holders? Has there been any discussion between the regulator and the Revenue Commissioners that would indicate how many of these drivers are part time?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

We do not have a remit or any power to buy back licences. With regard to our surplus funding, we hoped to use some of that funding for accessibility and to assist people who must upgrade their vehicles by 2012. We have made a submission to the Department of Transport requesting permission to use quite a large proportion of the surplus funding for accessibility, in terms of upgrading the current fleet and of increasing the wheelchair accessible percentage of the fleet to 10%.

The Deputy mentioned the long working hours and we acknowledge that drivers are working longer hours. The working time directive does not apply to self-employed drivers, but we are well aware that they work much longer hours than previously in order to meet their income targets.

On the issue of suicide, we have met with the National Office for Suicide Prevention. Our concerns are for families and loved ones affected by these tragedies, but we cannot comment on cases of suicide as we are not qualified to address the matter. However, we would urge anyone suffering from depression to speak to a friend or family member and to seek the support of qualified professionals. If a person telephones us, we would advise him or her to go to his or her GP, Aware or the Samaritans. The National Office for Suicide Prevention has met us on this issue and is happy with the way we are dealing with any calls we receive. Anybody in this situation should contact a professional agency. Unfortunately, we are not in a position to help individual drivers who experience difficulty outside of the licensing process or general information services. We will provide as much information as we can and will direct people to the appropriate agency if they are in trouble.

The Deputy asked about the stakeholders we meet. We meet policy stakeholders and industry stakeholders. Policy stakeholders include business, tourism and consumer representative bodies, local authorities, the Garda, people with disabilities, the Competition Authority, the Road Safety Authority, etc. Representative bodies include the four main groups in Dublin that represent the industry on a regular basis. We have a quarterly meeting with the main representative bodies and also meet local representative bodies around the country twice yearly.

Section 38 of the Taxi Regulation Act obliges us to have a public register of licences, which has meant taking over the old ledgers from local authorities which used to keep a ledger of licences. In the interest of security for licence holders, we availed of section 38(5) of the Act to consult with the Garda Commissioner to arrive at a determination that the address details and details of suspension or revocations of licences would be kept confidential and not be included in the public register. That information is not available on the website. Only limited information on drivers is available on the website. Anyone who goes onto the on-line register on the website needs a licence number to obtain information. However, when the licence number is entered, the only information provided is the name of the licence holder. That said, section 38(5) does not extend the commission similar latitude with regard to the disclosure of addresses in certificates, so if someone applies for a certificate, it will give the full details of the driver, his or her address and any revocations or suspensions of licences. The data protection legislation does not cover our register. Section 1(4)(b) provides an exemption with regard to personal data consisting of information that the person keeping the data is required by law to make available to the public. Therefore, as ours is a public register, we must provide the information as per section 38 of the 2003 Act. That said, we have been alerted by concerns raised by taxi drivers and I have written to the Minister pointing out that this section of the 2003 Act is causing concerns for licence holders.

The next issue concerns the nine-year rule. The department of transport engineering at Dublin Institute of Technology advised the commission in 2005 to set the age limit of vehicles at seven years. We then brought the matter of vehicle standards to public consultation on two occasions. Following lengthy consultation and advice from the advisory council, the age limit of nine years was agreed. The Road Safety Authority's statistics showed that 47% of accidents in 2007 involved cars of nine years or older. Our NCT testing results for 2010 show that 71% of cars more than nine years old have failed the test. This is because of the high mileage of small public service vehicles by comparison with private cars. Private cars are tested only every two years whereas small public service vehicles are tested once per year.

Someone referred to high-quality brands such as those produced by Mercedes. We do not promote any particular brand. Some 3% of the fleet comprises vehicles of the model mentioned. The nine-year rule not applying to accessible vehicles, thus implying that the standard would be lower was also referred to. We did not introduce a nine-year rule just yet for wheelchair accessible vehicles as we do not want to make changes in the wheelchair accessible fleet until such time as we find out whether financial assistance will be available for drivers to upgrade their vehicles and bring additional vehicles into the fleet.

How long has that been before the Minister?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

There were several submissions. The first was to remove the VRT and VAT from vehicles. That was rejected and it was suggested to us that we look to our parent Department to seek a subsidy instead. We submitted the subsidy document in 2007 and have been updating the Department since then with various costs of accessible vehicles that meet EU standards that are to come down the track for such vehicles in 2012.

On part-time drivers, the Taxi Regulator is not the licensing authority for drivers just yet. It is our intention to collect the relevant data when we take over driver licensing from the Garda Síochána. We carry out regular driver surveys but we do not have a sufficient number working part-time on this at present. We will collect the data when we take over the function from the Garda Síochána.

I welcome Ms Doyle. I am conscious that when delegates appear before committees, it is generally to hear our complaints and gripes. Ms Doyle will hear mine also. However, much has been achieved in terms of regularising the industry since the setting up the Taxi Regulator.

Like Deputy Sherlock, I was a little mesmerised when the word "equilibrium" was mentioned in terms of the number of taxis. Most attribute this to there being too many taxis but I believe there are not enough customers. In economics in my day, the mechanism for bringing about equilibrium was pricing. Since liberalisation, why has so little happened on pricing?

The prices of everything, except prices subject to regulation, have fallen. Does Ms Doyle agree that it behoves her as regulator to help bring about equilibrium not by erecting barriers to entry but by trying to reduce the price? It is heartbreaking to see St. Stephen's Green surrounded by empty taxis idling and wasting petrol. No matter where one goes, be it Dundrum shopping centre or elsewhere, there are taxis queuing.

Ms Doyle said there was price competition. I have not seen any. The only sign I have seen of it is the signs on the south side for trips to Dublin Airport at a flat rate of €35. Perhaps the signs are on the north side also. One is charged €75 to go in the other direction but that is neither here nor there. If there is price competition, the public do not know about it. The habit many people got into in the good times, namely, of getting taxis at the drop of a hat, must be nurtured again. This can only be achieved among those who are watching their pennies if prices drop.

I am pleased there are people who are not renewing their licenses in recognition that they cannot make a living, and that it was nonsense to be the 300th taxi on St. Stephen's Green hoping for a customer to turn up. The pricing mechanism is the solution. A review is due this year. Is there recognition that prices must come down if there is to be equilibrium in the market? A report containing an international survey of prices in capital cities stated Irish taxi prices are very high. Have we considered this or will it be considered in the price review that is due?

I understand no new licences will be issued, except to vehicles for the disabled. While I want to see more such vehicles, I hope the policy here is not a means of putting a good face on what is really the introduction of barriers to entry to the market.

I have a complaint about a matter that is probably not under the remit of the Taxi Regulator. It is probably under the remit of the Garda but the regulator must have a role in ensuring the Garda addresses the problem. I refer to the practice of taxis stopping at bus stops to pick up passengers. This is totally against the regulator's mission of trying to have integration with the rest of the public transport system. I refer specifically to the Aircoach. I have never stood at an Aircoach bus stop without a taxi stopping to offer me a trip to the airport at the same price offered on the bus. The reality is that taxis can ply for their trade anywhere except at the very limited number of bus stops of the Aircoach. It will be to the detriment of consumers if taxis put the Aircoach or other bus services that are trying to compete in Dublin out of business. I have complained many times but stopped doing so in recent years. Many people agree that what I describe occurs. Is there any hope of stopping taxi drivers engaging in this practice? I used to report taxi plate numbers or registration numbers but had no follow-up, nor did I hear that anything happened. Nothing is happening because taxis continue to engage in the practice.

How many of the 20,000 taxis are in Dublin? The regulator said she applied to the Department for a subvention in respect of accessible taxis. She also stated she was going to keep some of the €20 million surplus to help taxi drivers upgrade their vehicles. If the Department did not offer a subvention in 2007, it will surely not offer one in 2011. Is the surplus fund sufficient to subsidise the provision of taxis for the disabled?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

The first issue I want to address concerns fares. We undertook a fare review this year.

Is it completed?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Yes, it is completed. We received a number of submissions from the industry and consumers and had to make a balanced decision. The fare has not increased. It is a maximum fare. We can only make a maximum fares order. Any driver can offer a discount off the maximum fare.

The Deputy said that she did not hear much about price competition. It is mainly the cab companies, the dispatch operations, that are offering competitive rates at present. Many are offering a 20% discount. I am not sure whether the Deputy heard any of the advertisements in this regard on the radio. Quite regularly in Dublin, there are advertisements offering 20% discounts. The preferred option involves booking services rather than flagging a taxi on the street. That is because one can get a taxi so quickly. Despatch operators are not charging the booking fee, which is another example of price competition. Many drivers tell us they are offering discounts, particularly to regular customers. The members may not have experienced this but I certainly have.

Will the regulator be able to stop taxis using Aircoach bus stops?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

In the fare review this year, we must consider striking a balance between trying to increase consumer demand and taking operational costs into account. Operators have yearly costs and every day running costs. We have not increased the fare.

Is the regulator's job to look after taxi drivers or to ensure the demands of users are met?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Our job is to address the balance between both. We try to ensure consumer demand increases and a level playing field exists for service providers. When decisions are being made, there has to be a balance between what both sides are looking for. Many consumers look for a decrease in the fare, whereas most people in the industry want the fare to remain the same. They are aware of the importance of their operational costs if they are to stay in business. The last time we reviewed the fare, we provided for an increase of 8.3% because operational costs had increased. As the operational costs had not increased since then, we could leave the fare as it is on this occasion. There has been an increase in train and bus fares during that period but we are not increasing the taxi fare. As it is a maximum fare, people can look for a discount if they wish.

I do not doubt that taxi drivers' fixed costs have increased. Those costs have to be met even if one sits in St. Stephen's Green and does not take in anything. From the point of view of the taxi driver, surely it would be better to earn something and make some contribution to the fixed costs. Does that not make sense to the regulator when she sees all the taxis sitting there?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

It certainly does. All our research since 2008 has shown that telephone bookings are now the preferred option. More people contact radio companies to look for taxis. As a result, the ranks are full, particularly during the day. That might not be the case at night when people go to the ranks, particularly after social events. Much of the trade between Monday and Thursday is business trade — people phone dispatch operators to look for taxis to come to their offices so they can go from A to B. Most of the social business is at night and at weekends. That is when people use the ranks. It can be seen during the day that there are many drivers at the ranks waiting for business.

It is also clear that prices are very high. At a time when many people are not working, or have taken a hit in their income, everyone is terribly price conscious. The taxi is the first thing to go in such circumstances, if possible. A taxi fare is seen as discretionary income for many people, particularly when it is being used for social purposes.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

It is.

It is great if prices are being reduced, but people do not know that is happening. People will not sit into a taxi until they know how much they will have to pay.

Ms Jennifer Gilna

In our advertising campaigns, we encourage consumers to ask for discounts and receipts.

I would like to see that sort of thing.

Ms Jennifer Gilna

We have made it clear that customers are entitled to receipts and we will continue to do so.

I am listening to the wrong radio stations, obviously.

Ms Jennifer Gilna

We are advising consumers that they are allowed to ask for discounts. When the regulator is interviewed on radio programmes, she emphasises that passengers can ask for discounts. We have just come through a fare review process, during which that question was asked many times. It has been made clear that one can ask for a discount.

How does one know one has got a discount?

Ms Jennifer Gilna

If one's taxi journey comes to an end with the meter reading €16.80, for example, one can ask the driver to leave it at €15. Most fairly decent drivers will agree to such a discount. When one gets into a taxi to go to Rathfarnham, for example, one can ask to be brought there for whatever one considers to be a reasonable price for travelling that distance. I think many of them will——

Many young people who get into taxis are not in a position to negotiate such prices. I take the point that it is good that one can negotiate. A big announcement about cheaper taxi prices is needed to kick start the market. I will leave it at that.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

I was asked whether the introduction of wheelchair accessible vehicle licences only is a barrier to entry. It was not intended that the introduction of such licences only would be a barrier to entry. The purpose of issuing of licences only for wheelchair accessible taxis was to address the weaker side of the market where the level of service is insufficient. People with disabilities, who need a door to door service, constantly tell us that they cannot get taxis.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

We have had many complaints from Aircoach and consumers about taxis picking up passengers at bus stops, particularly Aircoach stops. We are addressing this issue through our dedicated enforcement team of nine staff. We cannot be there all the time. We have a national brief. We work closely with the Garda. We try to get out there as much as we can to address the complaints we receive. We are aware of this compliance problem. We are not happy about it. It will be addressed by means of enforcement.

I thank Ms Doyle.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

I was also asked how many taxis are in Dublin. At the moment, 11,419 standard taxis and 620 wheelchair accessible taxis operate in Dublin. Approximately 25,000 vehicles — taxis, hackneys and limousines — operate throughout the country.

Roughly half of them are in Dublin.

The neighbouring counties can also be considered in that context.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

The last question the Deputy asked related to the surplus. I would like to apply some of it to accessibility. I have already determined that some of it can be used for accessibility. I need the consent of the Ministers for Transport and Finance, but I have not yet received it

I welcome Deputy Mitchell to this committee and wish Deputy O'Dowd well. I welcome Ms Gilna and Ms Doyle to today's meeting. I appeal to the regulator to try to keep the costs of the operators as low as possible. We do not want the various costs they incur to rise. My experience of taxis in Dublin and Longford is excellent. I cannot say enough about the great service they provide. One can raise one's hand and hail a taxi as soon as one walks out of here. It is a good service. I find the taxi drivers in Dublin and Longford very courteous, friendly and helpful.

However, there are far too many taxis in Ireland and something needs to be done about it. Taxi drivers should be able to make a living. They are giving a service all over Ireland 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Nobody tells me that taxis are not available. I am sure the regulator is conscious of the problem of too many taxis. She seems to be a very fair-minded lady. As the regulator, her job is to act as a buffer between consumers and operators. We cannot put people out of business in this day and age, but we have to appreciate the economic climate in which we are living. I welcome the regulator's statement about the issuing of new taxi licences. I assume it is true that no new standard taxi licences are being issued at the moment.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

That is right.

People have spoken to me about taxis for disabled people. We are all in favour of them because they are necessary. Does the regulator's office check that those who get wheelchair accessible vehicle taxi licences provide a service to the disabled? Some taxi drivers have mentioned that to me and questions need to be asked about it.

Will the regulator or the Minister re-examine the nine-year issue? The regulator mentioned that a period of seven years was suggested before it was decided to go with nine. If a vehicle passes the national car test and is in good condition, why put it off the road after nine years? The drivers of some of these cars have been providing a service for 20, 30, 40 or 50 years, but now they are being judged on the basis of the age of their car. Nobody agrees with age discrimination under any circumstances, so I do not see why taxis should be any different. A taxi driver in Longford told me there was no consultation about the nine-year rule. He told me he did not know anything about it until he heard it was to be introduced. He is now expected to replace his nine years old car. Will he get anything for it? Most taxi drivers genuinely cannot replace a nine year old car with a brand new car. They cannot afford to do so in this day and age. There is not enough money in the business for most of them to buy 2010 cars. They will probably have to get a three year old or a four year old car. Perhaps the regulator can have another look at that. The variety of taxis available to consumers now is such that everyone can pick what is best for him or her. Most people will not get into a wreck of a taxi or a bad taxi. Some people look after things better than others. One might find a nine year old car which is in better condition than a five year old one. Perhaps the Taxi Regulator would look at that again, although I am not sure if she can.

I welcome the beautiful coloured brochure. I recommend that the next time the Taxi Regulator gets a brochure done she goes to Turner Printing in Longford. It is a very good printing company, which provides employment. We cannot be seen to put people out of business. We will end up with nobody in business in this country. We got rid of brochures. What will we get rid of next? I compliment the Taxi Regulator on going to the bother of producing a good, glossy brochure which is easy to read. I will do my best to ensure the taxi drivers in Longford, who do not have e-mail, get as many of these brochures as possible in order that they can read about the work the Taxi Regulator is doing.

The Taxi Regulator should not forget Turner Printing in Longford for her next brochure. If she will not give it the order, she should let it provide a quote. She might surprise me and tell me——

It is not for the committee to lobby for businesses.

Every committee should lobby for jobs. Jobs should be the priority for every committee, including the Joint Committee on Economic Regulatory Affairs.

We will end up with 30 or 40 names.

In particular, in Longford.

Perhaps the Taxi Regulator will consult the Longford taxi drivers in future, although perhaps she has been doing that. I do not know if they have been consulted or if they have a representative body.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

The first point was about being conscious of the cost to licence holders. We are certainly conscious of the cost and we have not increased vehicle licence fees since we took over licensing from the local authorities. We increased the driver licence fee because there had been no increase since 1977 and the Exchequer was subsidising the real cost of providing that service. We are talking about the cost of the driver licence, the driver identification card we provide, the smart card, enforcement in the industry and the management of complaints. We have not increased the vehicle licence fee. We have said we will look at it over time but we have not increased it up to this point.

The Deputy said he was conscious of the fact there were too many taxis in his area. I mentioned earlier that we are conscious of the strong supply of taxis throughout the country but we do not have a remit in terms of putting quantitative restrictions on the number of taxis. However, we are continuing to introduce quality standards in terms of vehicles and drivers to manage the numbers in the industry.

The Deputy said he did not want us to put people out of business, which is not what we are here for. People make a self-informed choice to come into the industry and we try to assist them as much as possible on our information line. The Deputy will probably have noted from the presentation the number of calls we get from the industry. We try to help people as much as we can.

We have met Longford drivers. I am not sure if there is a representative body in Longford but if the Deputy has any information on people who wish to represent the area, we would welcome that and would be more than happy to meet people locally. We meet people in their local areas to see what is happening on the ground.

In regard to the provision of services, the Deputy said he had a concern about wheelchair accessible vehicles and that the people who have those licences may not be providing the service. We got many reports in the past and we put regulations in place whereby priority must be given to services for people with disabilities. Records of those bookings must be kept by the person and can be requested by the commission's enforcement team.

In terms of the nine year rule, we have introduced those standards for new entrants into the industry from 2009 and for people changing their vehicles in 2010. We will introduce it for the rest of the licence holders in 2011. Many people have reached that point already. Some 76% of the fleet is under the age of nine years. The point was made about replacing the vehicle with a new car. We are not asking people to replace the vehicle with a new car but are asking them to use cars which are less than nine years old.

The national car test was mentioned. That is a test for roadworthiness. This year a large percentage of small public service vehicles, 71% over the age of nine years, failed that test. There is also a second test that we have put in place which is a suitability test. It is a visual test to ensure the vehicle is suitable. For instance, we would look at the inside of the vehicle to ensure the upholstery is in spotless condition, the vehicle is clean, the proper taxi meter is installed and the fire safety equipment, such as the fire extinguisher, and the first aid kit are installed in the vehicle.

I welcome the Taxi Regulator's response but request that the driver licence fee stay the same for the next ten years, if possible.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

We have no plans to increase it.

I may be wasting my time but perhaps the Taxi Regulator would consider extending the period of time to ten or 11 years if a car passes the NCT and the visual test.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

It is not something we are considering currently. There is a matter of equity. To be fair to those who have invested in vehicles already and those who have upgraded their vehicles this year, it would be a little unfair to change the rules for the rest of the industry. There is only a small percentage of cars over nine years old and people are contacting us on a regular basis to see what they need to do to upgrade their vehicles. It is a vehicle of less than nine years of age so it is not too expensive, although I appreciate some people have financial difficulties.

Ms Jennifer Gilna

We communicate regularly with the industry. People would have received letters and they get quarterly newsletters. They get a substantial amount of communication from our office. We would be surprised if somebody did not know about the nine year rule because we spend considerable time sending information.

In regard to the nine year rule, we have even worked on new documentation to send to industry members well in advance of it happening in order that they have the latest information in regard to their vehicle. We try to be as helpful as we can in regard to the new rules coming down the tracks.

That information will be sent to all industry members shortly if it applies to them and to their car. Obviously, the list of the options available are on that document. We are trying to be as helpful as possible in regard to the new rules.

I appreciate the office is being as helpful as possible. I welcome the Taxi Regulator saying she will come to Longford at any time. We look forward to that visit. I hope Ms Doyle and Ms Gilna can visit and stay overnight. We will take a taxi around the down.

Will Deputy Kelly bring them to Turner Printing?

I will bring them to the printers.

I represent Limerick and I know the Taxi Regulator has met the taxi drivers there. This is a major issue there. Many of the full-time drivers are at breaking point. Many of them have young families and are fearful of 2011 and the nine year rule. How does the nine year rule apply in practice? Do those who joined the industry this year have to buy a car that is less than nine years old? If they bought a car that was just under nine years, for how long can they keep that car as a taxi?

The Taxi Regulator said 71% of cars of nine years of age or older failed the NCT. Did they just fail the first NCT or did they go back and pass the second NCT? Is the Taxi Regulator just looking at the first failure?

I refer to the issue of full-time versus part-time drivers. Obviously, one wants to provide an adequate supply of taxis to people. Now the pendulum has swung from one side to the other in that there are full-time taxi drivers who spend hours at the taxi rank during the day. I got a lift to the House today from a driver who had been working since 9.30 a.m. and who made just €20 in fares. In many cases part-time drivers would have jobs elsewhere and there is a view, whether real or imaginary, that they start on Thursday night and finish up on Sunday night and earn nearly the equivalent of taxi drivers for whom it is a full-time job. That part-time taxi driver probably will be able to afford to go out and buy a newer car but in many cases the full-time taxi driver is up to his neck in debt. One taxi driver came to me recently in Limerick to see whether he could qualify for family income supplement, FIS, but he did not because he was self-employed. The Taxi Regulator must provide competition in the service, and clearly there was a need a number of years ago, but it has now reached a point where many full-time taxi drivers probably will not be able to remain in the system in the new year.

There was reference to people worrying about the issue of suicide in the self-employed sector and across all sectors. Our role as public representatives is to represent all facets of an industry. Considering all the facets, can Ms Doyle give some latitude on the nine-year rule? Can she look at the issue of part-time versus full-time drivers? There is a view among some of the taxi drivers that she does not fully understand what they deal with every day. I would say they are breaking all EU directives. Ms Doyle states these do not apply, but it cannot be healthy, either for the driver or for the customer, that some could be working for 16 hours at a time. It does not make sense. They are doing that because it is the only way they can make a living. They are working six days a week and in some cases they are going back out on Sunday evening. I am bringing it back to the human dimension. I accept Ms Doyle has a job to do, but is there any latitude on the age of the car? What can be done about full-time versus part-time taxi drivers? What about the 71% failure rate on the NCT?

I understand that the regulator is issuing no new taxi licences, is that correct?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

That is correct. No new standard taxi licences or hackney licences have been issued since June of this year.

How long will that provision be kept in place?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Our thoughts in that regard are that we want to issue wheelchair accessible licences only until they represent 10% of the fleet. At that point we will need to contact persons with disability and organisations such as the Irish Wheelchair Association to see whether 10% meets the demands of those with wheelchair accessible requirements.

What percentage of taxis are wheelchair accessible?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Currently, 6% of the fleet is wheelchair accessible.

How many extra licences would be required to reach 10%?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Approximately another 1,000. There are approximately 1,500 wheelchair accessible licences and we would like to see the number increase to 2,500, which would be 10%.

How many wheelchair accessible taxis would be issued on average in a year?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

I do not have those figures in front of me. Certainly, there has been an increase of a couple of hundred a year over recent years, but we would like to see more of an increase on that side of the market.

If one were to take an average of 300 a year, it would be three or four years before the regulator would start to recommence issuing licences. Is that correct?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

It depends. If we get a subsidy for the purchase of wheelchair accessible vehicles as part of our own surplus funding or as part of the grant aid from the Government, obviously that would increase the number of those who would be interested in providing a wheelchair accessible service. Some taxi drivers from the standard side of the market may very well come over to the wheelchair accessible side of the market. Our aim is to reach 10% of the fleet over as short a period of time as we can and then, maybe at another point, look to see whether that is enough to meet the services. Certainly, the Irish Wheelchair Association is of the view that we should be looking at it being 20% and we would like to revisit the issue when we reach 10%.

I apologise to Ms Doyle for cutting her off and ask that she address the questions I raised.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Deputy O'Donnell asked how the nine-year rule works. It has been in place for new entrants since last year. It has been in place for anyone who has changed his or her vehicle this year. A number of people changed vehicle this year and the average age of those vehicles was five years in the case of a taxi and four years in the case of a hackney.

Once the car is nine years old, they must change it.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Yes. It is to maintain consistency in the age of the fleet and across the standards in the fleet as well. Customers pay exactly the same fare no matter what vehicle they get into because it is a maximum fares order. It is about bringing about consistent quality of standards in terms of vehicle specification and age.

Would Ms Doyle accept that what she proposes could have the effect of driving many hard-pressed full-time taxi drivers out of the business in the new year?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

It is not an attempt to drive people out of the business. That is not the purpose. The purpose of this is to raise the standards and have them consistent with those of the significant number of people who have made a large investment in the industry to get those standards to a high quality. We are trying also to increase consumer demand and to do so, there will be an expectation that there will be a high level of quality in the industry.

What about the 71%? Are they people who failed the first time?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Yes. I do not have statistics for those who may have returned. Some of them may have and may have passed. Some of them would not have passed.

There would be a reasonable failure rate on ordinary cars the first time as well. It would not be exclusive to taxis.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Taxis are tested every year whereas private cars are only tested every two years. The statistics are far less for private cars but that is because taxis are doing much greater mileage.

In what year did the regulator bring forward these proposals?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

They were published in 2007 after two fairly lengthy consultation processes. We conducted another consultation process following an economic review. I had the economic review undertaken to look at the impact of liberalisation and the impact of standards.

The initial proposal was brought forward in 2007 when the economy, on the surface, was doing well although, in reality, it was not. Ms Doyle is now implementing these measures in a period of dire recession. Can she not see that there is a case for a derogation to allow the economy to recover? Many of these taxi drivers will not be able to replace their cars and then they will end up looking to go on social welfare. They will not qualify for jobseeker's benefit because they are self-employed. In some cases their spouses may be working and they will have to go on jobseeker's allowance. Would Ms Doyle accept that what she proposes was brought forward when everything looked rosy in the garden and that, in the current economic climate, some latitude should be given on the basis that the car comes through the NCT or even on the basis that it comes through the NCT the first time?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

The NCT needs to be separated from the suitability test, which is the test we undertake to ensure the vehicle is suitable as a taxi. For instance, one could have a vehicle that may pass an NCT but when it comes along to us for suitability testing, it could have ripped seats.

Let us say a person has a nine year old vehicle that gets through both. One wants to be fair. Would Ms Doyle then consider allowing a derogation in the current economic climate?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

Deputy O'Donnell is talking about making that derogation for a very small percentage of the fleet when the balance of the fleet has already met the rules. It would be unfair on those who comprise the balance of the fleet who have invested in meeting the rules and who would then be left in the position where we were making allowances for a very small group.

What percentage of the fleet is made up of cars over nine years of age?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

It is 24%. Therefore, 76% are now meeting the standards.

My point is that it is a vulnerable group.

Ms Kathleen Doyle

In terms of full-time and part-time drivers, we cannot prevent full-time drivers coming into the industry. The Garda Síochána is the licensing authority. In terms of part-time and full-time, there were regulations in place and back as far as 1998 they were removed by the then Minister for the Environment and Local Government. At that point, a person making an application to the Garda Síochána for a driver licence had to sign a declaration stating he or she was available for 40 hours work a week and, I suppose, was available full time. At the time, a number of part-time drivers lobbied Government to remove this regulation. Many drivers approaching retirement age wanted to work fewer hours, while other people, particularly in rural areas where hackney drivers could not work for 40 hours per week and perhaps only worked on Thursday, Friday or Saturday night owing to the lack of business at other times, wanted to work in the taxi industry. As a result, the regulation in question was removed in 1998 to allow anyone work at any particular time. Self-employed drivers choose their working hours and make a business decision on what hours they wish to work.

The economic review undertaken in 2008 showed a definite requirement for part-time drivers at busy, peak times, particularly the social hours between 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. on weekend nights.

With regard to enforcement, the issue of duplicate taxis and cars has been highlighted recently. How many prosecutions were related to non-licensed drivers or cars? Have cases involving the use of duplicate cars come before the courts?

Ms Kathleen Doyle

The three main offences we prosecute are not having a vehicle licence, not having a driver licence and overcharging. Some of those prosecuted do not have a licence, while others continue to operate with an expired licence. We do not have prosecutions for duplicate plates. While it has been argued in the industry that duplicate roof signs are being used, we have not come across many such cases.

I thank Ms Doyle and Ms Gilna for appearing before the joint committee.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.15 p.m. until Tuesday, 2 November 2010.
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