The proposer and seconder of the motions at least should be given an opportunity to speak.
Proposed Water Charges on Schools: Motions.
That is what I propose. Deputies Brian Hayes and Ruairí Quinn now will be given the opportunity to speak and to read their motion.
I move.
That this committee acknowledges the current financial crisis schools are facing with mounting bills for water charges and calls on the Government to:
1. Recognise that the water pricing provisions of the Water Framework Directive do not fully come into effect until the end of 2009;
2. Immediately instruct local authorities to defer payment for outstanding and pending water charge bills to schools in anticipation of a resolution of this matter;
3. Introduce such a new scheme only when a water meter has been installed in all schools;
4. Introduce a fair and equitable solution to the problem whereby each school is given a generous and realistic water allowance based on a per capita basis and all water usage over that allowance be paid; and
5. Introduce a once off capital grant to schools to allow for water conservation measures in schools and to prepare schools, in a fair way, for the introduction of the Water Framework Directive.
It is important that the joint committee should not be a talking shop but should come to a view on the present crisis facing our schools as a result of the abysmal performance of the Government in respect of the resolution of this outstanding issue. Schools throughout the country seek leadership on this issue and in the absence of Government ability to show such leadership, the joint committee should fill the gap and send out a strong signal to the Government by passing a strong resolution.
This meeting has been important because it showed clearly the absence of legal certainty regarding the current position. We are in uncharted territory and ultimately these matters may come before the courts. This is the reason it is important for a committee of the Houses of the Oireachtas to take a firm stance in favour of Irish education and the schools that have been asked to put up with such horrendous costs.
I respect the manner in which members have been given an opportunity to introduce these matters. This issue is urgent as excessive bills have been arriving on the desks of school managers and principals in recent months and beyond. Members cannot wait until after Christmas as this issue requires a resolution now. This is the reason Deputy Quinn and I have put down this reasonable and sensible motion that demands action from the Government. It is fair and is framed within the context of the framework directive that was negotiated in 1999. I ask members to support this motion because it offers a workable way forward on this issue.
In support of the comments made by my colleague, Deputy Brian Hayes, I draw the Chair's attention to the original motions Nos. 1 and 2 circulated to members, in which the word "crisis" was used. This now has been changed to the word "situation" although our colleagues from the education sector repeatedly referred to the word "crisis". If members believe the evidence they heard today, the word "crisis" should be put back into whatever motion is passed.
Given the contents of the motion originally drafted by Deputy Joe Behan and the Chairman, it is clear that our approaches share a commonality of thinking. No one is asking the Chairman to change the Government or to sack the Ministers for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government or Education and Science. Opposition members simply want the joint committee to send a clear unambiguous message to both Departments to galvanise them into finding a solution to an issue that clearly is causing great problems. Those voluntary people who have just taken up their four-year terms of office on boards of management are now being confronted with the reality of this crisis. Members should be on their side and should vote for the comprehensive motion put down by Deputy Brian Hayes and me. This is not about changing the Government or about humiliation but is about liberation.
I ask Deputy Joe Behan to read the text of the proposed Government motion.
Before so doing, I wish to state that this has been a highly informative meeting. I welcome the manner in which all interested parties were given an opportunity to make an input to the debate. The questions from all sides were fair and were answered fairly by the officials. I do not doubt that the Government is committed to resolving the situation. It is clear that officials from the Departments involved are working actively to resolve it. On that basis the Government motion reads as follows:
That this committee, having considered the legislative and fiscal options available to the Government in honouring its commitments under the Water Framework Directive, calls for a joint approach from the Departments of and Ministers for Finance, Education and Science and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to resolve the current situation many schools are facing in terms of water charges.
I second the motion.
In calling this emergency meeting, I was aware that a number of issues had to be thrashed out. I found the meeting to be quite informative. Although full resolution still has not been achieved, members will acknowledge that I allowed a considerable degree of leeway in respect of the questions asked to try to get the full opinion of the respective Departments, in so far as the witnesses were able to give their own opinions. They are unable to give their opinion on matters of policy.
The contribution from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government was not pre-empted and I saw it for the first time when I came here today. That is the reason I put down a number of motions. However, I am satisfied, having seen the statements at the end of its presentation, that it should be possible for the three Departments concerned to devise arrangements that would be legally compliant, would deliver water conservation and would ease the financial burdens on schools. In that context, I second the Government motion, which provides an element of flexibility while also reiterating that members do not expect the Government to take a long time before coming to a full decision on the manner in which the solution will be provided. While the motion sends out a clear message, I wish to make clear that I am unwilling to wait for two or three years for this issue to be resolved. It must be sorted out as soon as possible. That said, the text of the motion put down by Deputies Brian Hayes and Ruairí Quinn has been circulated to members. I ask Deputy Brian Hayes to move the motion.
Question put.
The joint committee divided: Tá, 7; Níl, 8.
Tá,
Burke, Ulick.
Feighan, Frank.
Hayes, Brian.
O'Mahony, John.
Quinn, Ruairí.
Healy Eames, Fidelma.
Ryan, Brendan.
Níl
Behan, Joe.
Conlon, Margaret.
Fitzpatrick, Michael.
Gogarty, Paul.
McEllistrim, Thomas.
Moynihan, Michael.
Keaveney, Cecilia.
Ormonde, Ann.
Question declared lost.
I ask Deputy Behan to move the Government motion.
I move:
That this committee, having considered the legislative and fiscal options available to the Government in honouring its commitments under the Water Framework Directive, calls for a joint approach from the Departments of and Ministers for Finance, Education and Science and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to resolve the current situation many schools are facing in terms of water charges.
Question put.
The joint committee divided: Tá, 8; Níl, 7.
Tá
Behan, Joe.
Conlon, Margaret.
Fitzpatrick, Michael.
Gogarty, Paul.
McEllistrim, Thomas.
Moynihan, Michael.
Keaveney, Cecilia.
Ormonde, Ann.
Níl
Burke, Ulick.
Feighan, Frank.
Hayes, Brian.
O'Mahony, John.
Quinn, Ruairí.
Healy Eames, Fidelma.
Ryan, Brendan.
Question declared carried.
I propose to send letters to the Ministers for Education and Science and Environment, Heritage and Local Government informing them of the motion passed. I hope we will get an early reply. Is that agreed? Agreed.
The joint committee went into private session at 4.09 p.m. and adjourned at 4.15 p.m. sine die.