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Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection debate -
Wednesday, 19 Dec 2012

National Council for Special Education: Discussion with Chairman Designate

We move on to our meeting with Mr. Eamon Stack, who is chairman designate of the National Council for Special Education. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss with Mr. Stack the approach he will take in his new role, as well as his views on the challenges facing the council. Members will be aware of the Government decision of May 2011 which puts new arrangements in place for the appointment of persons to State boards and bodies. The committee welcomes the opportunity to meet the chairperson designate in public to hear his views. We trust that this provides greater transparency to the process of appointment to our State boards and bodies.

On behalf of the committee, I welcome Mr. Stack. Officials are accompanying him, although they are not formal witnesses. They are Mr. Jim Mulkerrins, principal officer, Department of Education and Skills, and Ms Teresa Griffin, CEO of the National Council for Special Education. I draw to the attention of Mr. Stack that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to this committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and continue to do so, they are only covered by qualified privilege. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given. They are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Members are asked to remember the long-standing practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

After the meeting, Mr. Stack's opening statement will be published on the committee's website. I invite Mr. Stack to make his remarks.

Mr. Eamon Stack

I thank the Chairman and other members of the joint committee for the invitation to attend the meeting. I am pleased with this opportunity to address the committee in my capacity as chairperson designate of the National Council for Special Education. As I only became aware of this appointment about a week ago, I have only begun to put together some initial thoughts on how I will give leadership and manage this role. Now that I am retired, I am very willing to put some of my time and expertise into some active role in Irish education at a national level. As members of the committee will be aware, this is a non-remunerated post.

I will briefly cover three main points, as follows: my experience in education, my vision for the NCSE in the years ahead, and my role as chairperson of the council. As regards my experience in education, I was the chief inspector in the Department of Education and Science - now known as the Department of Education and Skills - from 1997 to 2009, having joined the inspectorate there in 1992. Prior to my time in the Department of Education and Skills, I was the founding principal of a large co-educational post-primary school in Limerick, from 1978 to 1992. Enrolment in that school increased from 90 students in its first year to more than 1,000 students within ten years.

Between 1971 and 1978 I was a post-primary teacher of business studies subjects in a number of schools. I was also the author of many books and articles on business and economics. If some members are young enough, they might have studied some of them for the leaving certificate.

Some of my key achievements as chief inspector can be found on many pages of the History of Ireland's School Inspectorate, 1931-2008, written by Professor John Coolahan. I have a copy for anyone who wishes to read it over Christmas. Such initiatives included from 1978 the return of marked leaving certificate scripts to candidates; major structural change, reform and expansion of the inspectorate; the introduction of whole school evaluation, WSE, subject inspections and incidental inspections to all schools in Ireland; and the publication of inspection reports. I also played a lead role as chairman of the planning group in the establishment of the National Educational Psychological Service in 1998, the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, and the State Examinations Commission, SEC, in 2003. All of these happened in developing the inspectorate.

While I do not have a qualification and have not had direct involvement in any area of special education to date, I chaired the planning group within the then Department of Education and Science that in 2000 produced a report entitled, A National Support Service for Special Education for Students with Disabilities, which made ten recommendations. It is now known as the Stack report. Two of the recommendations were that the then Minister for Education and Science establish a national council for special education and that the proposed council have two key functions - a research and policy function and an operations function. That was the starting point for the establishment of the NCSE.

Since my retirement, I have done some work as a facilitator, mediator and adviser to schools and organisations. I also make presentations at conferences and mini-conferences and conduct half-day and full day sessions with educational leaders and entire teaching staffs in schools.

I refer to my vision for the NCSE. My initial thoughts are about ensuring the five strategic objectives spelled out in the recent council statement of strategy 2012-16 are delivered in the next few years. These objectives are based on the functions set out in section 20 of the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs, EPSEN, Act 2004. The first relates to operational issues. The strategic objective in this regard is to plan and co-ordinate the provision of education and support services for children with special educational needs. It might be described as core business. To achieve this, the NCSE has nine senior SENOs and 73 SENOs deployed nationally who allocate supports to approximately 4,000 schools to assist them in meeting the special educational needs of children arising from a disability.

The second strategic objective relates to policy advice and is to provide evidence-informed policy advice for the Minister for Education and Skills on the education of children with special educational needs. The development of NCSE policy advice is informed by evidence both from national and international research, consultation with the NCSE consultative forum and other educational stakeholders, the experience of NCSE council members and staff and visits to mainstream and special schools.

The third strategic objective, based on research, is to conduct and deliver a research programme to underpin the dissemination of information relating to best practice in special education to schools, parents and the education sector. I understand a number of consistent messages have arisen in the findings across the research to date such as the need for teachers to be upskilled in educating children with special needs, for example, differentiation-pedagogical approaches, disability specific information, etc.; the importance of early identification and early intervention; long waiting lists for assessments, particularly educational assessments, resulting in a delay in accessing resources and some parents seeking a private assessment; the role of SNAs in often working outside their care role but which is considered to be valuable support for schools; and closer inter-agency interdisciplinary working, particularly between health and education providers. I intend to read all of this research in the coming weeks.

Strategic objective No. 4 identifies the review of further and higher educational provision for adults with special educational needs and the development of best practice. Under section 20 of the EPSEN Act 2004, one of the functions of the NCSE is to review and provide advice on education-training services for adults with special educational needs. Under Part 2 of the Disability Act 2005, the NCSE, together with the HSE, will have certain functions regarding the assessment of needs and preparation of service statements for adults with disabilities. Up to 2011 the focus of the NCSE was on providing supports for pupils with special educational needs rather than considering adult educational issues. I need to examine this issue in greater detail with the new council in the next few months.

Strategic objective No. 5 is to ensure the NCSE continues to develop as an effective organisation which is compliant with all statutory, regulatory and corporate governance requirements, as well as having effective information dissemination, communication and media strategies in place.

These five strategic objectives have to be achieved in a way that ensures the NCSE mission statement and its vision statement are fulfilled in the context of the policy, legal, economic and social environments. As chairperson, I see my role as a person who provides the necessary leadership, in accordance with the code of good governance, to ensure the council is clear about its mandate and effectively functions to provide strategic guidance while also monitoring the activities and effectiveness of the work of the NCSE to ensure the highest standards of service provision are achieved. I will work closely with the chief executive officer, Ms Teresa Griffin, and her senior staff team. I also intend to cultivate and rely on the co-operation, expertise and good judgement of the council members to assist me in my role. I look forward to working with the new council after my appointment on 1 January 2013.

At the outset of the presentation I indicated that my thought processes had only begun to focus on this new role. I need to read further into the role in the next few weeks and listen to what people have to say on special education issues such as committee members, senior staff in the NCSE, personnel in the Department of Education and Skills, relevant parents' associations, school management bodies, school principals, teacher associations and children. I thank members for their attention and look forward to the challenge in the year ahead.

I thank Mr. Stack. I would like to bring to the attention of members that the new chairman designate will not be remunerated for this role apart from receiving incidental travel expenses. The authority is new and we cannot expect him to comment on its operations to date. As a division has been called in the Seanad, I will allow Senator Fidelma Healy Eames to put the first question.

Thank you, Chairman. I welcome the delegation and, in particular, Mr. Stack. I compliment him on taking up this role in a voluntary capacity. As a good and faithful public servant, it is good to see him continue and it is clear that he is eminently well qualified for the role.

While he said very modestly that he had no specific background in special education, he was there from the beginning at the NCSE.

I wish to flag one or two concerns, which Ms Griffin and Mr. Mulkerrins and I may have discussed elsewhere. I would like to see other countries' models of special needs support for children considered. What models other than the SMA model are effective? I am thinking particularly of cost and the cap. We must ensure equality of provision for all children. I would appreciate Mr. Stack's comments. Adult education issues were also raised. What does Mr. Stack have in mind in that regard? Was he referring to parents of children with special education needs? I am further concerned about second level support for children with dyslexia and other special educational needs, in particular given peer issues and the stress they are under in the context of fitting in and withdrawal from classes, for example where they are exempted from Irish, to work on something else. It is a pointed matter.

I congratulate Mr. Stack on his appointment. It is great to have someone of his calibre in an unpaid post. He is giving very generously of his time to take on what is not an easy task. I wish him well. He is a man of integrity and very smart and diplomatic and will be very good at bringing people together on the board to deal with sensitive issues. Hopefully, a great deal of progress will be made for children with special needs over the next few years. He has been able to drive change in the inspectorate and other areas, often in the face of considerable opposition. On another occasion, we can grill him on policy issues but for now I wish him luck.

I welcome Mr. Stack, Mr. Mulkerrins and Ms. Griffin to the Joint Committee and wish them the best. It is very generous to undertake a role for nothing and it is obviously done from passion and love of public service. Nobody can underestimate the challenges which lie ahead, in particular at a time when resources are few and far between. It makes things even more difficult. There are a number of areas which must nevertheless be addressed. I note in Mr. Stack's contribution his reference to the need for closer inter-agency partnership, in particular in the areas of health and education. I agree. As he reads into the role over the next couple of weeks, Mr. Stack will come across some of the difficulties in health and education regarding special educational needs. The current HSE proposals on the reconfiguration of therapy services and their impact on children with special educational needs, particularly in specialist schools, have created fears among families that current services will be diminished by the move to more geographically based provision. It is happening already in Cork and there were issues with implementation in Limerick. Implementation in Meath seems to have been more successful than it was in Limerick. I do not know why. Consultation with the HSE will be very important to address the impact of the reconfiguration of services on special needs education.

I commend Mr. Stack on taking on the role. His track record in education speaks for itself. He was involved in 2000 in the production of the report on a national support service for special education for students with disabilities. On retirement, it is apt that he is taking on the role of chairman of the National Council for Special Education. If his record as a civil servant is an indication, his contribution as chairman will be something to which to look forward. I commend Mr. Stack on his public service ethic in taking on the role and providing the benefit to the State and its education system of his experience and knowledge. I wish him the very best. It is a challenging time. There has been immense progress in special education in the last ten years, particularly since the establishment of the council. Ms Griffin and her team do a very valuable job. I welcome Mr. Mulkerrin also. I have no doubt Mr. Stack will develop a good working relationship with all parties and provide strong leadership. The joint committee looks forward to engaging with him further when he is up and running in the role.

I join members in wishing Mr. Stack well. He is very well qualified and experienced. He chaired the planning group within the Department which produced the report on a national support service for special education for students with disabilities in 2000 which led, inter alia, to the establishment of the council. While I do not expect Mr. Stack to have an answer right now, as a public representative a number of school boards of management, teachers and parents have raised with me the perception that there may not be a consistent allocation of resources among schools. Whether that is correct or not is another issue, but I flag it with Mr. Stack.

Mr. Eamon Stack

The kind, sincere words of members have motivated me. The appreciation which was expressed is very encouraging and makes it worthwhile to remain at the wheel in the public service on a voluntary basis. I have done nothing in the job yet so the praise remains to be earned in the months ahead. I intend to do so. Members have made observations which have been very informative. The first job of a leader of any group is to use one's two ears before one uses one's mouth. One must listen to hear what people are saying to avoid making decisions before discovering information one should have had in advance. Deputy Tuffy's remarks on the perception regarding consistent allocation of resources are very useful. It means I know I must keep an eye out for that. As I speak to people I can learn about it and establish the position. Senator Healy Eames's question about other models is worthy of further reflection and research to establish if there are better, more efficient ways to do things. The focus of improvements must always be to further the educational interests of children.

I do not mean cheaper or dearer but better in the educational sense.

Senator Averil Power put no specific question. Deputy Jonathan O'Brien was very useful in telling me about closer co-operation between agencies. I value his input about that and the reconfiguration of the therapy services. That is all useful for me in my steep learning curve in this matter. It has been wonderful. I appreciate Deputy Charlie McConalogue's kind words. I am taking on this new role with enthusiasm and commitment and with the interests of the young people it is intended to serve. That is what education is all about. I will end with a quotation: "Those who work in education shoulder an awesome responsibility. As Aristotle would have counselled, the course of history lies in their hands". I will play my part.

I thank Mr. Stack for his presentation and for briefing the committee. Is it agreed that the committee inform the Minister for Education and Skills that we have concluded our discussion with Mr. Stack and that we will forward a copy of the transcript of the meeting to the Minister for his information? Agreed.

The select committee will meet on Thursday, 17 January 2013 to discuss the Education Training Boards Bill 2011 and we hope to make a site visit to the Grangegorman campus on 30 January 2013. I wish all the members, our guests and their families a very happy Christmas. I thank the clerk, the Secretariat and the Debates Office for their work this year and I wish them a very happy Christmas.

The joint committee adjourned at 2.50 p.m until 1 p.m. on Wednesday, 23 January 2013.
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