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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENTERPRISE AND SMALL BUSINESS debate -
Wednesday, 11 Oct 2006

Reform of the Irish Insurance Market: Presentation.

Deputy Callanan took the Chair.

I welcome Mr. Brendan Murphy, director, group chief executive, Mr. Seán Maher, director, risk management, and Mr. Damien O'Neill, associate director, direct insurance division, Allianz Ireland plc who are here to assist us with the examination of the reform of the Irish insurance market. I also welcome the committee's consultant, Mr. Myles O'Reilly.

Before I ask Mr. Murphy to make his opening statement, I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. Mr. Murphy may now proceed. I thank him for always coming in when asked to do so.

Deputy M. Brady took the Chair.

Mr. Brendan Murphy

I thank the Chairman and members for the opportunity to return to update the committee on Allianz's role within the Irish insurance industry. We received the committee's agenda in advance and we have addressed in our presentation all of the issues raised. Unfortunately, our presentation is comprehensive and long. We will try to move through it reasonably quickly, if that is acceptable. I am accompanied by Mr. Seán Maher, our director of risk management, who will deal with some of the slides in the presentation and by Mr. Damien O'Neill who is the associate director of our direct insurance division.

Before addressing the first item on the committee's agenda, I remind the committee that Allianz differs from its peers in two distinct aspects. First, the group that is Allianz in Ireland has traded successfully here for over 100 years offering stability and security to our customers during some turbulent decades. Second, Allianz is primarily a commercial insurer.

Slide five of our presentation shows our business profile. The top of the slide shows the market position for 2004 and 2005 and the bottom part of the slide shows the Allianz position for 2004 and 2005. I would point out, in summary, that while the proportion of the insurance market related to motor insurance is 40%, the proportion of Allianz's market related to motor insurance is 29%, and Allianz has a higher proportion of property and liability insurance than the rest of the market reflecting our position as a commercial insurer.

The committee asked us to address first the profit and income of Allianz for 2005. I confirm that our pre-tax profit was €132 million on a gross written premium income of €475 million, down 4% and 8%, respectively, on the previous year. The cost of our capital is set at 8.1%. Our target return is 15% and we have been achieving our returns since 2003.

We also were asked to address our outlook for 2006 trading. I can confirm that our income is expected to be down on 2005 levels reflecting the significant reduction in premiums. This year, to date, our trading position has been reasonably profitable, mainly driven by prior year releases, but I would caution that the last quarter of the year has traditionally been a difficult one for insurers.

Insurance is a cyclical business and, although welcome, the profitability enjoyed by the market in recent years will not persist. Slide eight in our presentation shows the underwriting position over 23 years. The committee will note the cyclical nature of the business. It goes up and it goes down. When it is up, there is only one way it goes and that is down.

I also draw the committee's attention to two of the lows. In the early 1980s, arising from these lows, there was the demise of PMPA in 1983 and ICI in 1985. In 2001, again at a low point, the Independent Insurance Company ceased trading. Unfortunately, with the cyclical nature of business, when we experience lows there is much fallout.

The committee asked us to address the rate of reductions. Slide nine in the presentation shows the rate of reductions for the past two years and to date in 2006. I will only take from this the overall direction of the rating. They all are rating reductions. My colleague, Mr. Seán Maher, will deal in more detail with the reductions.

In slide ten we took the previous slide and mapped in the rating movements over the past number of years. I draw the committee's attention to two matters in particular, first, the lag between the movement in rate reductions and the corresponding impact on the returns. One can see that when rate increases were occurring, it took a while for that to be reflected in the returns. With rate reductions occurring from 2003 to date, one would expect the returns to start turning downwards. If we were to predict where it will be in the future, we would see it falling. It is just to put that in context. This is a cyclical business and we have gone back as far as the information available for the market would permit and highlight this and in the slide one can see the trends over 23 years.

My colleague, Mr. Maher, will address the committee's next question, which was on changes in insurance prices by category.

Mr. Seán Maher

Mr. Murphy spoke of cycles and it is good to reflect on the recent one which really kicked off in the 2001-02 period, and look at the condition of the market. The committee will see in slide 12 that the market had been coming off the back of several years of substantial losses. As Mr. Murphy stated, the Independent Insurance Company collapsed in 2001. The World Trade Centre tragedy created problems, not in this market but externally in taking out insurers and reinsurers in the global markets and reducing capacity, and in fact, some of the transitory capital had already withdrawn from the market leaving real pressure for the local client base.

At that point there was no immediate prospect of change. Road traffic law enforcement, to which we will return, was at an insufficient level. The PIAB and other legal reforms like the courts Bill were not at all under way. We had experienced quite consistent adverse weather, which was likely to recur at any time. Substantial price increases were the order of the day at that time. Indeed, this committee had not really kicked off its work to any great extent in 2002.

Since late 2003 premiums have been falling back again and at the same time there has been a significant dynamic in this marketplace. There has been exponential growth in the number of motor vehicles here, a substantial change in the numbers and values of properties with the building now of perhaps more than 80,000 dwellings per year, and major commercial developments in every town and city so that the asset base is increasing. At the same time, the number of people in employment is growing substantially and now stands at over 2 million, and rates of pay under pay agreements such as Sustaining Progress have been moving forward. The entire exposure base has increased quite dramatically. The context of that growth, the slide shows a high-level overview of the successive years of rate reduction in the various lines of business.

I suggest that we look more closely at individual situations because sometimes we feel the real reductions are perhaps lost in presentation. We must view the reductions in the context of economic activity. I have provided a selection of changes in large risk involving hotels, contract cleaning companies, construction companies, etc. In the construction area, members can see that an increase in activity of more than 100% occurred and that prices decreased. However, some client's premiums remained unchanged. Many premiums decreased but others either remained unchanged or increased. That is part of the economic activity. I have provided an explanation regarding the hotel risk, which is a good example of what is happening. Turnover is increasing everywhere and many hotels are adding leisure centres and extra bedrooms, taking on more employees and attracting additional patrons, functions and activities. The risks involved are quite different but even though the rates are down, the prices must reflect that. In the aggregate, premiums are down.

The position relating to the area of household insurance is quite similar. Property values are increasing and I provide an example which shows that the premium relating to a typical rebuild — most people rightly insure in respect of rebuild as opposed to market cost — in Dublin costs €306. In 2003, the figure was €354. On the face of it, that appears to be a reduction of €48. However, the value has increased and the worth of the premium is €60, which is conceded in the overall transaction.

The reductions are probably more obvious in respect of motor insurance because factors relating to exposure are not changing in the same way. I have provided some examples for members and these show some dramatic changes in individual premiums. One of the examples to which I refer shows a decrease to €247 in the cost of a premium quoted to a person in Cork. I never thought we would see premiums of that order. However, that is the type of decrease that has come about.

The committee requested our views on many of the reforms that have been introduced, namely, the Personal Injuries Assessment Board, PIAB, the Civil Liability and Courts Act, the road safety programme, changes in insurance, etc. I will address these quite quickly.

The establishment of the PIAB was most welcome. Our experience is that its initial development was quite slow and was hampered by an early challenge from legal representatives who wanted to be present at hearings. Matters are moving forward, however, and cases that come before the PIAB are in or about the level we would have expected. It should be borne in mind that the PIAB deals with non-contested cases in which it is a question of the quantum involved and all that comes into play is an assessment. In such cases, there is no issue of liability. Approximately 50% of our cases go through the PIAB.

We are somewhat concerned regarding the awards being made. Our experience is that awards have been made in approximately 25% of the cases we submitted to it. This means that 75% of cases remain. We would like to see more cases being decided upon. We have accepted the awards in every one of our cases that has come through the PIAB. However, there have been a growing number of rejections on the part of injured parties. These people then take the court route. That is a source of concern. We would like more cases to be dealt with, increased acceptance and further bedding in of the system. The bulk of the cases settled is of the "slip, trip and fall" variety and are of low value. In 75% of our cases, the awards made amount to less than €20,000. We would like to see more of the higher value cases coming through in order that we can establish baselines and identify where we stand.

This has ramifications for the Civil Liability and Courts Act, in respect of which the committee sought details of our experience. Again, there were initial delays regarding the implementation of the provision of the Act and the early problems in respect of the PIAB to which I referred had a knock-on effect in this regard. In addition, there have been lower volumes than we would have expected. One significant aspect, which relates back to the PIAB and the need to deal quickly with cases, is that the Statute of Limitations is suspended while cases are before the board. Even though the Civil Liability and Courts Act reduced the Statute of Limitations to two years, the latter is suspended during the period in which a case is before the PIAB. If cases are before the board for too long, the clock is being allowed to run. This is a matter for concern and we would like to see progress in respect of it.

No contentious cases have arisen thus far in respect of the Act, which deals with matters such as fraud and unvouched earnings. We have not experienced any difficulties because the volumes so far have been small. It is too early to judge the impact of the Act, but we still welcome it because it has real merit and will, over time, prove its worth.

The real gains that have emerged from these changes relate to the improved claims environment. The changes have given rise to a better process and claims must now be notified earlier and better information, witness statements, etc., must be provided. It is, therefore, possible to make earlier decisions and deal promptly with claims. That is the real benefit to date.

On the road safety programme, everyone is aware that there was a honeymoon period when penalty points were introduced. The Society of Actuaries in Ireland estimates that had it been possible to sustain the initial effect, 255 more people — 78 a year — would be alive today. In 2003, following the introduction of penalty points, the level of deaths in Ireland fell to their lowest level in 40 years. Even then, however, we were still behind other developed countries in respect of our performance in this area.

I am not sure of the effect it is having. A couple of months ago, the IIF carried out a survey of motorists which showed that seven out of ten people believe the penalty points system is not effective, that 95% of drivers admit to breaking speed limits and that 52% and 51%, respectively, believe they will not be caught for speeding or drink driving. There is a real link here. The number of road traffic accidents and fatalities dropped significantly in August when random breath testing was introduced and when a high-profile enforcement campaign was pursued. This is clear evidence of a direct link and it is down to putting in place measures with which we all agree and sustaining them. The IIF's survey was carried out prior to August and I am sure people might have changed their minds during that month. However, they may have reverted by now because I am not sure that the level of enforcement currently matches that which obtained in August.

We support all of the measures to which I refer. We have been arguing and lobbying for more enforcement for many years and we have contributed €7.5 million to the IIF's road safety campaigns since 2000. However, the lack of enforcement must be highlighted. In addition, there is a degree of inconsistency regarding the setting of speed limits throughout the country. This may be one of the issues that leads people to fail to buy into road safety. There are roads that are really unsuited to speed limits of 100 km/h and others that are quite safe. Consideration must be given to this matter.

The lack of driver training in secondary schools must be addressed. In addition, the driving test must be overhauled. We must also deal with the unacceptably high number of learner drivers on our roads. I presume that most members are drivers and it is scary when one sees what happens on our motorways, including people overtaking on hard shoulders, etc. These matters of concern to us must be tackled.

On health and safety in the workplace, we must be careful. The reduction in the number of claims in recent years should not lull us into a false sense of security. Accidents continue to happen. It is a matter of some concern that almost 30% of employers do not possess safety statements. It is a legal requirement that they should possess such statements. Of those who have statements, only 5% are fully compliant. This is another matter that must be examined.

The Health and Safety Authority, HSA, has identified a real issue and is taking a proactive approach to the changing workplace. We support its efforts but additional resources and funding will be required in this regard. In our experience, difficulties arise in respect of language, training and the fact that people come from different backgrounds and have been exposed to different training techniques. The HSA has identified that foreign nationals suffer a disproportionate number of fatal injuries. Among Irish workers the figure is three fatal injuries per 100,000 employed, whereas among non-nationals it is 5.6 per 100,000. That figure will probably increase — unless we can do something about it — as the number of non-national employees grows.

CSO figures show that while the figures relating to industrial injuries have remained relatively stable since 1998, the number of work-related illnesses has increased sharply. This may relate to changes in work processes, the use of chemicals or whatever but it is a matter to which consideration must be given because the figures have increased dramatically since 1998, from 1.7 per 100 workers to 3.1. That is a huge increase. The issue here is not only the rise in claims that we can expect but the knock-on effect in terms of economic losses.

The Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, who accepted the committee's report, commented recently on the economic cost of industrial injury and illness and estimated the figure in that regard as being between €3.3 billion and €3.6 billion. Those figures represent multiples of the cost of employers' liability insurance and they will damage the economy.

Good work is being done but support is required. We play our part and have the largest number of risk improvement surveyors. We assess risks and offer risk improvement advice. We contribute quite significantly to risk management publications and encourage adherence to work safety practices among our employees. This focus must be maintained and supported. This refers to changes in insurance regulation. We continue to engage in the consultation process. We believe this is good for the consumer and that the advent of Solvency II will bring transparency which will raise standards and be to the long-term benefit of consumers. We must bear in mind that regulation comes with a cost which is factored into the insurance premium. It is all about focus and doing what it is correct to do.

The committee asked about additional reforms. Substantial well balanced reform has taken place and we need to make sure it is enforced and bedded in. The PIAB and the Courts Acts are bedding in and we cannot lose focus. We must continue. There are other issues such as penalty points. We must avail of the link to which I referred. The changing work environment needs focus. Perhaps the Road Traffic Acts should be consolidated soon. Every week we read of technicalities in laws with defendants getting off charges. Perhaps an amendment in this regard would be worthwhile but the priority must be to achieve maximum benefit.

We were asked to comment on the seven questions posed. I do not have time to read the comments but they have been included in the presentation.

Mr. Murphy

We were asked to address developments in the past 12 months, a period of significant change. Page 38 refers to the IBEC survey which found that insurance was the only one of 11 significant non-pay business costs to reduce in 2005. It reduced by 8%, whereas other non-pay business costs increased by 8.1%. I refer to household premiums and information from the Central Statistics Office. Such premiums are at 1998 levels when adjusted for inflation. Using the same comparison for motor insurance, through information provided by the IIF, motor premiums in July were lower in real terms than at any time since June 1992. Other costs increased in the same period.

In the past the number of companies operating in this market was an issue. According to the Financial Regulator's information, 400 companies were in the market in 1995 and by 2005 this had increased to 900. This is reflected when the relative cost of non-life insurance is considered in the developed world as a percentage of GDP. Ireland comes in at 2.9% compared with 3.3% for other European member states; 3.6% for the United Kingdom; 4% for the G7 countries; and 4.4% for New Zealand.

The committee asked us to address further actions needed to reduce premia. I apologise for saying this but more effective road traffic enforcement would reduce the number of incidents which would feed into further reductions. The 2% insurance stamp duty which generates approximately €80 million per annum could be diverted to support enforcement to help sustain lower prices. Given premium reductions to date, further reductions will depend on improved enforcement and behaviour because it is clear price follows claims. Something should be done to eliminate or reduce significantly the number of uninsured drivers which accounts for 6% of the total number of drivers or 100,000.

The committee also asked us to address what Allianz Ireland did regarding road safety. As a commercial insurer, Allianz has promoted driving programmes for the past 12 years involving classroom and in-cab training by qualified driving instructors. We provide training in Russian and Polish, as many east Europeans are employed in the construction and haulage sectors. We contribute to road safety by highlighting issues in the media, notably, our campaign on foreign national drivers and driver fatigue. Allianz also contributes to the IIF's financial support of the road safety campaign.

Through its commercial focus, Allianz is a key enabler to the Irish commercial sector and via its personnel division serves approximately 8% of the motoring public. Prudent underwriting, managing the cycles and protective risk management, education and customer support and careful deployment of human skills are the base on which Allianz has built its successful 104 year reputation in Ireland. It adopts a proactive and inclusive position on all reform measures capable of delivering value to its customers. The company fully supports and acknowledges the good work of the committee but cautions that continued effective implementation of all remedial measures is needed if the achievements gained are to be sustained. With many reform initiatives under way, we have continued potential to achieve success but effective enforcement is the key. Dramatic cuts in premium rates may bring challenges as a cycle develops and moves inevitably downwards. We expect the insurance cycle to continue in this direction. There are signs that the focus on risk control is easing, as evidenced by an increase in road traffic accident numbers, a sharp increase in the number of industrial fatalities in 2005 and a steady increase throughout 2006 in reported fire losses.

I would like to highlight that behind the statistics are the lives of real people, many with blighted ambitions and appalling injuries and, for too many, the additional loss of loved ones.

I welcome the Allianz representatives and thank them for their comprehensive presentation which will be of great benefit to the committee. The committee needs this information, which is very much to the point. It is clear from the presentation that the time for talking is over, that it is time for enforcement and that until that happens, the results that should have been achieved will not be achieved. That is a good message for the committee.

I refer to the Statute of Limitations and the PIAB. Is Mr. Maher suggesting the Statute of Limitations should be enforced even after the claims are lodged with the board or is he suggesting another solution?

Mr. Maher

No. Under the current mechanism when a case comes before the board, the statute is suspended until the case is disposed of, which is fair. Nobody wants to deny a claimant his or her legal rights and it is important that people should be encouraged to accept the PIAB assessment approach. It is right that their legal entitlements should be fully protected during the process. If they are given an award and they are happy, that is fine, but if they are not, they should retain their legal rights. We should do what we can to compress the timeframe in which the decision is taken within the PIAB to ensure cases are adjudicated on quicker.

Is Allianz happy the initial penalty points system would have been effective if it had been enforced?

Mr. Murphy

When penalty points were introduced in late 2002, there was a honeymoon period but the initial enforcement did not last. A fear of enforcement must be created for everybody's good. That was clear with the initial and obvious enforcement of that system and random breath-testing earlier this year but it must be maintained because if it is not, everything will move backwards and, unfortunately, there will be tragic human consequences.

Mr. Murphy addressed the public's views on the effectiveness of the system and the public is saying the same as Allianz.

Mr. Murphy

Exactly. While the survey was conducted prior to the current campaign of enforcement, if people do not believe they will be caught, they will not comply. We all like to do the wrong thing.

That is the central message.

I welcome Mr. Murphy, Mr. O'Neill and Mr. Maher. Their presentation was impressive and it covered every issue we wished to raise. It was comprehensive and there is not much need for questions.

The group had healthy profits of €132 million last year. In the circumstances, does Allianz not feel its loyal customers could do with a further reduction and bonuses? Costs and the number of claims from people with car or commercial building insurance have been reduced. Therefore, would Allianz consider a special reduction for some drivers to give them a boost?

I am pleased the work of this committee has been recognised by Allianz. When we started work on this area four years ago, we faced a daunting task. Costs were out of hand completely, particularly in the areas of car, commercial building, house and hotel insurance. People were insuring themselves and there was all kinds of messing in the area. We have made progress in that regard. I recognise the work of the former Tánaiste, Deputy Harney, who initiated the setting up of the PIAB which has made a significant contribution and is beginning to achieve what it set out to do, namely, to reduce overheads and legal costs, which were approximately 40% when it was first established. Successful court cases have allowed this work to proceed.

Some companies have introduced a new approach, an eye in the sky, for young drivers and monitor them with regard to exceeding speed limits. If the young drivers maintain speed limits and remain within the law, their premium is reduced. Has Allianz considered this approach rather than requiring enforcement by gardaí, which is almost impossible due to the significant numbers of young drivers involved?

Mr. Murphy

I will address the discount question first. As I said, we are primarily commercial insurers. Most large scale commercial insurance is individually rated and, therefore, clients' individual claim performance is reflected in their premiums. What we have provided in terms of rate reductions are overall for the business, but individuals are rewarded directly for their better claims performance.

On the issue of car insurance and the eye in the sky approach, we are a relatively small private motor player with approximately 8% of the private motorist market. We have introduced our own methods on the commercial side. I mentioned in detail what we are doing in terms of training within the classroom and the cab for commercial drivers and this is the area on which we have concentrated. If the market as a whole supported the eye in the sky and issues with regard to civil liberties, etc., were addressed, and if its introduction made sense from an economic point of view, we would adopt it. There is significant cost involved, approximately €300 or €400 in terms of reduced premiums. We suggest that the changes would be better done at the time a car is manufactured and if incorporated at that stage, they would be a lot less expensive. We would not, however, lead the market in the private motorist area because of our relatively small market share.

I welcome the delegation and compliment Allianz on the work it has done in reducing premiums in all areas. The group mentioned that a higher proportion of accidents in the workplace involve non-nationals. How can we address this and should it be addressed by the insurance companies or the employers? It is probably a communication problem more than anything else.

Non-enforcement of regulations was mentioned as the major problem with regard to road deaths. Some other issues such as alcohol detectors were also mentioned. It was said that drivers could swop cars. They could, but would they be insured in the other car? This is an area that should be examined, in particular for younger drivers who should be given a reduction if they are not involved in these practices. With regard to the black box system, I understand a company in Britain is offering insurance per mile to 18 to 21-year-olds who use the black box and this offers a vast reduction in the price of insurance.

A question was asked as to whether insurance companies should offer insurance to drivers who have not undergone driving instruction. We seem to have put the cart before the horse in this regard. Perhaps people should not get their licence until they have had instruction. Allianz has pointed out the lack of training for young drivers and suggested it should be offered in secondary schools. This is an issue we have raised often, but it seems to be slow taking off. It is necessary to teach and train students at that level and where the funding should come from can be decided later. It is important that young drivers do not drive until they have received some training, whether simulated or from driving schools.

Mr. Maher

On the question of non-nationals, the problem has been identified. The Health and Safety Authority is on top of it and translates health and safety notices into other languages. The problem is complex. Many of the non-nationals are highly educated and speak English well. From our experience, we know that part of the issue is to do with training. Many of the people coming here for employment are not really trained in the work they take up and this is an issue that must be addressed at employer level. When employers recruit, they should have in place a good screening system to ensure that people are fit for the work and have the right focus. This area has been identified on everybody's radar, but we must recognise it as an issue and ensure we put supports in place to deal with it.

On enforcement, if we spend the time we should on that, we would not get to the question on training. The issues are tied up together — learner drivers, the driving test, which does not address the matter of night-time driving where most of the carnage happens, and motorway driving. All these issues must be addressed.

Mr. Murphy

Another question concerned pay-per-mile insurance. Our group has looked at this and is considering implementing it in other locations. There is a difficulty of scale because we need volume to make it economic. We agree that in terms of controlling driver behaviour, it is potentially a good control. The difficulty for us involves the scale on which it could be implemented.

Allianz has outlined its concerns about major shortcomings. One of these concerns is that we have an inadequate driving test. Does the group mean there is a problem with the quality of the test or the testers? Many young people who have sat the driving test say it is stern, rigid and quite sharp and would probably disagree with Allianz on this matter.

Mr. Murphy

I disagree. The extent to which it tests is inadequate. The test is conducted in daylight and does not include motorway driving. It does not test conditions in which people are driving and that is one of our concerns. Also, when we consider the question of younger drivers, many of the serious accidents are as a result of speed and inexperience in dealing with situations. For example, they drive too fast on roads that are not suitable for that kind of speed.

Another issue is that younger drivers are invariably not alone when they crash. There tends to be other young people in the car with them and this is when many of the serious injuries arise. There are separate issues. It is a combination of the test but also of educating them and this might even start in the classroom. It might be a question of whether practical education is required. We should start in the classroom because it is a great opportunity. Most students do transition year and learn about lifesaving and about other safety issues.

There is much comment about non-nationals. The delegation outlined how they fare with regard to workplace accidents. People will refer to non-nationals every time there is an accident. What are the statistics relating to non-nationals? It is alleged that non-national drivers are not properly insured and have insurance certificates from other countries that are not valid. The Garda Commissioner appeared before the Joint Committee on Transport recently. He informed the committee that there are 70,000 uninsured cars in the country. What can be done about this problem?

With reference to the driving test, I had representations from people due to sit the driving test on an agreed date but who needed to borrow a car for the test as something had happened their own cars. They telephoned the insurance company to have the insurance transferred to the other car. However, driver testers do not accept this. There must be a proper tax disc displayed that must correspond with the number plate on the car.

I thank the delegation for an excellent presentation that has been simple, concise and certainly delivers the message. It is a pity more presentations to the committee are not like this. It was very easy to understand. Information should be communicated in a simple way so that people understand it. I appreciate that type of presentation.

Mr. Murphy

The figure we have for uninsured drivers is closer to 100,000 than 70,000. The current estimate from the Motor Insurance Bureau is that about 6% of drivers on the road are uninsured. The figure is worse than the committee may have believed it was.

This problem has been with us for quite a long time and unfortunately it is a question of enforcement. Unless there is strict enforcement this problem will continue.

Mr. Maher

On the question of non-nationals bringing cars into the country, they bring them on the ferries and perhaps this should be the point at which the insurance should be checked. There is some confusion about whether some of these cars are insured. Large numbers are insured when they arrive from EU member states and the insurance is valid. Part of the problem is that the insurance may be due to expire in a month's time and they may not renew the insurance. Another concern is the number of left-hand drive cars on the road. This is a significant issue as the driver behaviour of those driving left-hand drive cars is a real concern.

Does the delegation propose the issue of uninsured drivers should be tackled at the point of entry? The driver is probably uninsured at that point.

Mr. Maher

This is not the only check point. As with any other enforcement measure, insurance should be checked along the way. If somebody tries to bring an uninsured car into the country, the check at the port will filter this at that point of entry. It is also possible to decide whether the driver's insurance is valid.

Could some additional measures be taken to require them on entering the country to go to a Garda station? Are we missing some fundamental action to eliminate the problem of uninsured drivers?

Mr. Maher

I do not know the process. I assume people are entitled to come into the country without any barrier. We should not assume that non-nationals are the only uninsured drivers; the majority are local people. It is a proportion of non-nationals.

Will the delegation explain the situation with regard to the changeover of insurance and the attitude of the driver testers?

Mr. Maher

I recall when my son was doing the test it was a stipulation on his form that he had to arrive with the car. I am not familiar with the background or the rationale for this but it would seem to be a small change in procedure to only require that a person has a properly taxed and insured vehicle. The reality is one can turn up in a Mini today and come out and drive a mega car, a very powerful car, tomorrow. I do not have enough information on the matter.

Mr. Murphy

There may have been a time lag between the transfer and getting the insurance disc. Is that the issue?

The issue is if my car breaks down the night before I am scheduled for the test and I wish to borrow my friend's car. If I ring the insurance company and transfer the insurance this is not acceptable to the driver tester. The disc must correspond with the car registration.

Mr. Murphy

It is a question of how fast the disc can be issued.

Mr. Maher stated in the presentation with regard to the PIAB that there are marginal savings as the benefit of the elimination of costs in smaller cases is eroded by increase in damages. This is probably a very good endorsement or advertisement for the PIAB, in so far as the clients are concerned. Going to the PIAB ensures they get a very fair and reasonable deal and this should encourage them to go to the PIAB instead of to the courts.

Mr. Maher

They are getting good and fair compensation. The book of quantum is on a sliding scale and we find that the awards tend to be towards the higher end. There is a down side as well. We are saying it is marginal. We are saving the legal costs but there is a little more in awards. If that was to be replicated in the vast bulk of cases and it they were all to be heard at the high end, perhaps we would lose some of the benefits the PIAB was set up to provide. The compensation is not inadequate. It is a range and fair compensation can be had at any point in the range. The numbers are too small at the moment. A total of 25% of our cases have come through so we are not getting that spread of cases.

It is an indication to the public who use PIAB. It is an endorsement from the delegation's side.

Mr. Murphy

Yes. The point is that in monetary terms the PIAB cases are relatively small compared to our total. If there is an inflationary impact because of the book of quantum and that transfers to all claims, this will result in rising premia.

It is quite successful at this time.

Mr. Murphy

Yes, and we fully support it.

A loophole was brought to the committee's attention some time ago regarding on-line taxation of cars where it is not necessary to show the certificate of insurance. Has this loophole been closed? There should be more co-operation between the insurance companies and the authorities.

Mr. Murphy

Another issue is the ability to check the database relating to cars. This is not integrated which is a difficulty and if it were, it would deal with this issue. As I understand it, one can still renew one's tax on-line without disclosing one's insurance certificate, simply by mentioning the name of an insurance company.

Mr. Maher

We have to keep this issue in context. It is possible to go into the tax office to get a year's tax, in the old fashion, by submitting an insurance certificate that has just one month to run. It is not very different. The key is to get the computer system to link it all together.

I note that in its presentation, Allianz gave examples of decreases in motor insurance premiums between 1992 and 2006. All of the cars used in the comparison had 1.4 or 1.6 litre engines. What happens to young people with 1.8 or 2 litre cars who want insurance? Are they refused insurance? What is the position in that regard? I refer to a 24 or 25 year old person who wants to be insured on a 1.8 litre car. I am asking for a reason I will not disclose until I have received an answer.

Mr. Maher

I will have to be very measured in my response.

Mr. Murphy

I will let Mr. Maher answer that one.

Mr. Maher

There is really no secret. The base insurance price for young people is higher than the base insurance price for more mature drivers. It is a graduated price. If the car has a lower power, the insurance will be less expensive. Insurance will cost more for cars with a higher power.

Is there a policy of refusing to offer insurance outright in such circumstances?

Mr. Maher

No, there is no such policy.

No. During the course of my business, I have met young people who have told me they find it difficult to get insurance if their cars have engines of more than 1.6 litres. Many companies do not want to know about such drivers.

Mr. Maher

It is a pricing issue.

It is understandable that it costs more to insure more powerful cars.

I thank Mr. Maher, Mr. Murphy and Mr. O'Neill for attending this meeting and giving the committee an excellent presentation. It was easy to understand and we all benefitted from it. I do not doubt that the committee will meet the representatives of Allianz Ireland on a future occasion. On behalf of the committee, I thank the delegation on its excellent presentation.

The joint committee went into private session at 10.35 a.m. and adjourned at 10.40 a.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 18 October 2006.
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