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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENTERPRISE, TRADE AND EMPLOYMENT debate -
Wednesday, 20 Feb 2008

Annual Report 2006: Discussion with Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment

I welcome Mr. Seán Gorman, Secretary General of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Mr. Gerry Donnelly, assistant secretary general, Mr. John Hughes, assistant principal officer, corporate services division, Mr. Seamus Ó Moráin, assistant secretary general, competitiveness and international affairs division, and Mr. Martin Shanagher, assistant secretary general, science, technology and intellectual property division. I thank them for their attendance.

I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. It is generally accepted that witnesses have qualified privilege but the committee cannot guarantee any level of privilege to witnesses appearing before it. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses, or an official, by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite Mr. Gorman to proceed with his presentation.

Mr. Seán Gorman

We are glad to be here to discuss our 2006 annual report.

The year 2006 marked the mid-point in the life of this Department's statement of strategy 2005-07 and the 2006 annual report outlined the many actions the Department undertook during the year to advance the objectives set out in the strategy. In our statement of strategy we set ourselves the mission of working "for Government and the people to grow quality employment and national competitiveness". Our policies have been designed to enhance competitiveness, help create an environment where enterprise can flourish and consumers are protected, where we focus on up-skilling the labour force, providing sustainable employment opportunities, improving workplace conditions, and overall helping build an inclusive society.

We based the strategy statement on four pillars: enterprise, innovation and growth; quality work and learning; making markets and regulation work better; and business delivery, modernisation and customer focus. In respect of the first pillar we set the key goals of enhancing Ireland's productivity and competitiveness levels to sustainably produce and sell on world markets goods and services which add to national welfare; and the development and implementation of policies to enhance the enterprise environment leading to high rates of sustainable entrepreneurship activity, the start-up and growth of competitive firms, continued inward foreign direct investment and sustainable development. A further aim was to stimulate business to increase commitment to research and development, the promotion of innovation and a culture of entrepreneurship amongst researchers and the encouragement and rewarding of effective links between enterprise and academia; harnessing the potential of the knowledge-based economy for economic and social well-being, turning knowledge into products and services; and contributing to the development of enterprises that can compete internationally and thereby deliver growing employment for the benefit of all. We also aimed to work with the various relevant stakeholders to ensure that Ireland becomes internationally renowned for the excellence of its research and is at the forefront in generating and using new knowledge for economic and social progress, within an innovation-driven culture and reviewing and updating industrial policies and interventions in light of the evolving competitiveness environment, developments in respect of the all-island economy and the need for regional balance.

In the area of quality work and learning, we set as key goals the pursuit of labour market policies which promoted the development of human capital and lifelong learning, helped to address the skills needs of the economy, facilitated increased participation in and access to employment, and contributed to social inclusion and the further enhancement of quality employment by improving and enforcing employment rights and entitlements, including safety and health at work, and promoting social partnership, industrial peace and effective dispute resolution.

For the third pillar we set the goals of ensuring that the regulatory system delivered efficient and competitive markets with high standards of corporate governance and consumer protection; the further development of the legislative framework, having regard to best regulatory practice, in particular the principles of better regulation; and the reduction of the cost of the delivery of compensation and the delivery processing times for personal injury claims with a view to improving the functioning of the insurance market for the benefit of consumers and businesses.

The fourth pillar was more inward-looking than the other three as we were studying our systems and services but we also looked out to our customers. There we aimed to improve the provision of high level professional support and advice across the Department in key support areas to ensure that we met our business goals and continued to be at the forefront of the modernisation agenda; and the delivery of excellent services to our external customers and stakeholders through ensuring the most effective use, development and deployment of our resources and the achievement of maximum value for our expenditure.

During 2006, the outlook for the Irish economy had remained particularly positive, with GDP growth of 5.8% and GNP growth of 6.3%. The services sector grew by 6.5% during the year, while the growth rate in non-services industry was 4.8%. The labour market remained buoyant with employment growth in the region of 85,500 or 4.3%. The total numbers of people in employment in the State reached more than 2 million for the first time. Redundancies during 2006 were marginally greater than in 2005, however, with a small increase of 2.3%. Immigration continued to be an important factor in our economic success, with net migration into the labour market increasing to an estimated 52,000 in 2006.

The underlying trend in the inflow of workers from the new EU member states had increased since EU enlargement began. In our annual report, we highlighted how our export performance had continued to grow despite relatively high oil prices, as well as rising interest rates and fiscal pressures, which we acknowledged could ultimately slow the pace of growth in many of our trading partners, as well as in Ireland. We also highlighted the new and increasingly difficult challenges which arose during 2006 and which were facing Irish business, such as competition associated with greater globalisation, higher business costs and a considerably tighter labour market. These challenges still obtain.

In the SME sector, the report of the Small Business Forum, which was published during 2006, noted the increasingly important role small business played in the economic, social and cultural life of the population. The forum also noted that, while globalisation and international market liberalisation had opened many foreign markets to Irish business, it also resulted in a greater international presence in the Irish locally-traded market, where most Irish businesses traded. Accordingly, as Irish companies continued to face increasing competition from major international players they would need to offer superior levels of innovation, service and quality to compete successfully. The report also noted that a greater proportion of the country's wealth creation would be generated from indigenous companies with the potential to grow and to conquer international markets than heretofore. In this regard, implementation of Enterprise Ireland's strategic plan 2005 to 2007, Transforming Irish Industry, commenced in 2005, was identified as a crucial factor in ensuring an ever sharper focus on growth opportunities both for individual companies and for targeted new growth sectors.

We also continued to provide a supportive environment within which small businesses could flourish and sought to reduce unnecessary burdens and provide appropriate supports for the sector. The Department also committed to implementing the recommendations in the report of the Small Business Forum which came within our remit.

Our 2006 annual report also stressed the development of the knowledge economy as one of the key challenges and opportunities that faced Ireland if we were to protect and expand on recent economic progress. Ireland has to become a world-class centre for the development and exploitation of knowledge.

Notwithstanding our impressive progress in science over the previous decade, there remained significant challenges for Ireland. We were not as advanced in comparison with some of our competitors. We needed to benchmark ourselves against countries such as Sweden, Denmark and the USA, whose research systems have roots extending back more than a century. The policies and funding outlined in the strategy for science, technology and innovation, launched by the Government in 2006, have been identified as crucial to Ireland securing its position as one of the world's advanced knowledge economies and becoming renowned worldwide for the excellence of our research.

The strategy outlines a vision of Ireland as a leading knowledge economy by 2013 and sets out the steps needed to ensure Ireland becomes a world-class centre for the development and exploitation of knowledge. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment is the lead Department driving the realisation of the strategy. Its successful implementation will sustain and improve our global competitiveness.

We also emphasised in our annual report how enhancing Ireland's competitive advantage in a changing world economy and building sustainable social and economic development remained a core objective of the new social partnership agreement, Towards 2016. While focusing on the need for improved competitiveness, we also acknowledged the complementary objective of enhancing our employment rights compliance regime including the establishment of the new National Employment Rights Authority, a trebling of the number of labour inspectors and an increase in the staffing resources for the adjudicative bodies such as the Labour Court, the Employment Appeals Tribunal and the Rights Commissioner Service. These developments were needed if we were to create the environment where employment could grow in a stable harmonious industrial relations climate.

We highlighted how the successful implementation of the new system of employment rights compliance would set challenging targets for the Government, employers, employees and the social partners. The Department has been to the fore in implementing its complement of the Towards 2016 commitments.

The industrial relations environment showed encouraging improvement in 2006 with record lows in the number of days lost and number of disputes commenced since statistics were first compiled in 1923. In 2006, a total of 7,352 days were lost due to industrial disputes, compared to 26,665 during 2005.

The high level manufacturing group was established by the Department in 2006 in response to Towards 2016 commitments. It allowed key stakeholders focus on policies and actions that would not only maintain and grow our existing manufacturing base, but also identify new opportunities in an extremely important sector of the economy. The group's work is nearing completion and its final report will be made available to the social partners soon.

Ensuring the availability of an adequate supply of labour and developing a highly skilled and adaptable workforce to help assist our ongoing economic progress has been an important policy challenge facing the Department and Ireland. The need for further investment in education and training, especially for those already in employment and who may be at risk of being unable to access the employment opportunities arising from our knowledge-based economy, was a priority in the year under review.

During 2006 the Department chaired the steering group which completed the Forfás expert group on future skills needs report, Tomorrow's Skills — Towards a National Skills Strategy. The development and implementation of that strategy, through 2007 and beyond, was identified as a key labour market initiative which should ensure, over the period to 2020, Ireland has the skills required to remain competitive in the global marketplace.

Activation of unemployed and inactive groups and increasing the participation of women in the workforce were important issues for us during 2006. While our employment rate for women has increased significantly in recent years, we identified scope for further improvement, particularly with regard to older women and sought to promote greater family-friendly work policies to assist in this regard. The ageing of our population and the consequent decrease in the working age population was also identified as a major challenge. Ireland's employment rate for older workers, at 53% in 2006, exceeded the EU 2010 target of 50%.

Several reforms had, nevertheless, been undertaken to encourage more older workers to remain in or return to the workforce. These included raising the retirement age for new entrants to the public sector to 65 years; extending the labour market activation process from 55 to 64 year olds; and the phasing out of the pre-retirement allowance.

A review of the level and adequacy of pension coverage was also identified as an important factor in striking a balance between the improvement of retirement incomes and the enablement of older workers to continue working.

The Department also published its sectorial plan under the Disability Act 2005 dealing with the provision of services by the Department to people with disabilities. The plan covers 2006 to 2010 and contains several key initiatives to promote and support the inclusion of people with disabilities in the labour market. Several schemes had also been introduced to encourage employers to retain and recruit disabled employees.

A continuing challenge for the labour market was to bring in from outside the European Economic Area, EEA, skills which we needed to progress the economy to one that is knowledge-based and innovation-driven, where such skills could not be sourced from within the EEA. The implementation of the green card system for high-skilled non-EEA nationals, and the revised work permit system for occupations where the shortage is of labour rather than of skills were important in ensuring migrant workers continued to make a positive contribution to our economy and to participate significantly in the development of our infrastructure during 2006. The Oireachtas enacted the Employment Permits Act 2006, establishing a statutory framework within which to implement an active, managed economic migration and employment permits policy.

An important challenge in an economy which was growing at a rapid rate was to ensure consumers' economic well-being was not compromised as the economy expanded so rapidly. This was achieved by using consumer and competition policy in such a way that it would allow the economy to grow while protecting consumer interests.

The Competition Authority continues with its studies on various sectors of the economy to raise awareness on how competition — or the lack of it — can adversely affect the consumer. The interim board of the National Consumer Agency, since established on a statutory basis in 2007, continued with its awareness programmes on various consumer issues.

The Competition (Amendment) Act 2006 revoked the Restrictive Practices (Groceries) Order. The Act also strengthened the provisions of the Competition Act 2002 by specifically prohibiting the fixing of minimum retail prices by suppliers, unfair discrimination in the grocery trade and the payment of advertising allowances and "hello money".

The general scheme of the Consumer Protection Bill was also published in August 2006 and has since been enacted, establishing the National Consumer Agency on a statutory basis and implementing important reforms of consumer law. This represented the first phase of a two-phase project aimed at modernising our consumer protection legislation. The second phase comprised a review of the law governing consumer contracts and the review of all secondary legislation has continued in 2007 and 2008. The Department was intensely engaged during 2006 on the preparation of its input to the national development plan, NDP, covering the period to 2013. This was launched by the Government in January 2017. A total of €13.7 billion investment in enterprise, science, innovation and human capital was agreed under the new NDP. The main focus of this investment will be on creating and sustaining high value jobs, growing Ireland's exports through Irish enterprise and foreign direct investment companies, upskilling workers through the national skills strategy and a doubling of funding for the strategy of science, technology and innovation.

The €13.7 billion investment comprises €7.7 billion for training and upskilling, €3.3 billion for enterprise development and €2.7 billion as part of the overall wider investment of €8.3 billion in science, technology and innovation. The business regulation forum, which was established at the end of 2005, began its work in earnest in 2006 undertaking research, pilot studies and surveys of business, which culminated in a report to the Minister early in 2007. That work has continued into the current year, when our aim is to identify practical ways of reducing the administrative burden placed on business through necessary balanced regulation by the State and at international level. We also continued our work to progress the development of key business networks on a North-South basis through the work of InterTrade Ireland, which our Department co-funds with our counterpart in the North, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment.

In the nature of the broader remit of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, much of our work is undertaken on an interdepartmental basis in areas such as the promotion of the competitiveness agenda. In areas such as energy and related activity we are very dependent on the co-operation of other Departments in addressing our competitiveness challenges. Ireland's engagements with various international forums such as the EU, the World Trade Organisation and the International Labour Office continued apace throughout 2006 on budgetary and tax issues as they impact on enterprise and employment and on promoting the social inclusion agenda, to name but a few areas. The focus on cross-departmental work was intensive also.

At a corporate level the Department continued to pursue its modernisation agenda, especially through implementing its customer charter and quality customer service initiatives, such as the maintenance of an up-to-date and expansive website and our one-stop shop information units. We also continued to roll out more e-government services, including an online redundancy payments system, a new Employment Appeals Tribunal website and a number of online services in the Patents Office. We continue to deepen the partnership model of doing work in consultation with our staff and have made significant progress on the implementation of our human resources strategy for the period to the end of 2007. We published our first ever training and development strategy, setting out how we intend to invest in our staff to allow each colleague to reach his or her potential in the service of our many and varied stakeholders. We continue to progress the value for money, or expenditure review, initiatives with the publication in 2006 of the science and technology expenditure review.

I am happy to report that further work was progressed in 2006 on the implementation of the Government's decentralisation programme. The Department is responsible directly for decentralising 250 jobs to Carlow and our work in 2006 led to an advance move of more than 100 staff there, which took place just before the summer break in July 2007. The annual report summarises the Department's key achievements in 2006, a number of which I have alluded to already.

Some of the headline achievements were the following: the launch of the strategy for science, technology and innovation; the report of the small business forum; the passing by the Oireachtas of the Employment Permits Act; participation in the expert group on future skills and the report, Tomorrow's Skills — Towards a National Skills Strategy; publication of the Department's sectoral plan for people with disabilities; participation in the negotiations of the social partnership agreement, Towards 2016; the coming into force of the safety, health and welfare at work construction regulations 2006; enactment of the Competition (Amendment) Act; and completion by the company law review group of the drafting of a general scheme of a new company consolidation and reform Bill. The latter is massive work which will come before this committee in due course. It is currently with the Parliamentary Counsel. Other headline achievements include the preparation of the Department's Towards 2016 modernisation action plan, the training development strategy that I have mentioned and our inputs into the national development plan.

Looking forward, I should like to highlight the key priorities over the period of the last strategy statement, which is where our 2006 work positions itself, that we identified with the Minister and he accepted when we developed it. These were in the areas of the enterprise strategy group, small business, research and development, economic migration issues, lifelong learning, people with disabilities, unemployed and long-term unemployed persons, consumer issues, competition policy and inputting into the national partnership agreements. Other priorities included the international dimension of our work at EU, WTO and other levels, decentralisation, the modernisation agenda, the better regulation challenge and North-South co-operation.

I hope my presentation has demonstrated the work done in 2006 to advance these key policy areas and indeed others which subsequently emerged in the furtherance of our mission, which as I stated at the outset was to work for Government and the people and grow quality employment and national competitiveness.

I thank Mr. Gorman for that comprehensive rundown on the Department's progress. A number of Deputies and Senators are offering so I propose to take two or three at a time. Mr. Gorman can respond to those and we shall then come back to others. I call Deputies Clune, Morgan and Calleary.

I thank Mr. Gorman for his presentation and welcome him to the committee. I have been reading about this area a good deal recently. Perhaps Mr. Gorman will expand on two areas in particular. I am very conscious of the SSTI, the strategy for science, technology and innovation. I know it is probably in its early stages because the target date is 2013. I hear that employers are experiencing difficulties in getting science graduates in electrical engineering, IT and computer science. I know that education per se is not Mr. Gorman’s area but his Department is the driving force for the SSTI. Has this been brought to his attention and, if so, is he concerned and what can be done about it?

In the area of research and development, there was an announcement recently to try to encourage this. There has been a particularly low uptake of research and development opportunities among Irish-owned companies whereas foreign-owned concerns seem to do well in this regard. While their research and development departments may not be based in Ireland they are nonetheless heavily engaged in this area. However, we hope that more of them will locate their research and development here. It is vitally important that indigenous Irish companies engage in research and development and become more active in this area. Can we have Mr. Gorman's thoughts on this issue and whether he believes it is of concern?

Mr. Seán Gorman

On the availability of skilled people, particularly at graduate level, we share the concern and indeed the efforts being made by the Department of Education and Science to generate more interest among students in mathematics and the sciences. My Department makes some very direct contributions in this regard through our Discover Science and Engineering awareness programmes to work with the Department of Education and Science in helping raise the level of awareness and attract people in the earlier stages of the education cycle into those areas. Mr. Martin Shanagher, who oversees the awareness programme, will flesh out some more of the detail on what is being delivered in the context of doing that. It remains a challenge and is something on which we are focused and are working.

There is a range of funding schemes available through Enterprise Ireland, aimed particularly at the indigenous SME sector, to encourage Irish companies to invest more and more in research and development and innovation. There have been some significant successes with the level of spend invested by companies at various levels, the FDIs in particular, but also indigenous companies. Again, Mr. Shanagher has the figures, which we can share with the committee because they illustrate how we have been moving forward in terms of improving the levels of engagement by these companies. With the Vice Chairman's permission I will ask Mr. Shanagher to talk about this.

Mr. Martin Shanagher

Discover Science and Engineering was launched by the Taoiseach a number of years ago. We found that companies with the best will in the world were producing CDs for their own sectors and were trying to engage with primary and secondary schools. We wanted to have an integrated awareness activity between several Departments and different company interest groups such as Engineers Ireland. There has been much focus in Discover Science and Engineering on getting into the early stages of education by going to the primary schools. When the primary science curriculum is introduced and elements of the junior certificate science curriculum deal with practical activities that need to be done, then Discover Science and Engineering gets involved.

We have hit about 90% of primary schools with the primary science initiative and the intention is to get it into all schools. It is very good at pump priming and introducing new innovations that help the system. In 2008, we will be carrying out a complete review of everything we have been doing over the past three to four years. The things that work very well should then probably be put into the mainstream of the education system and should not come through Discover Science and Engineering at all. Discover Science and Engineering also supports the junior certificate science curriculum.

While the overall numbers of students taking maths, physics and chemistry have been on a downward trend, in the last few years we have seen upturns in the percentage of total students in the system. Whether that is a temporary improvement to be sustained is a major challenge. The international Rose study discovered that as countries develop further, kids would prefer to play with a Nintendo rather than figure out what goes on inside it. The more developed a country becomes, the more difficult it is to get children to express interest in becoming research scientists or in working in technology. Young children in developing economies express high levels of interest in such careers, as they can see that this can bring real and immediate advances to their own communities. All this is a real challenge, but it is being tackled on a number of fronts. The changes in the education curriculum take time, but it is being done.

I am aware of what is happening. It can be very hard to engage students and even their parents in science. However, some universities and institutes of technology are not filling their quota of electrical engineers and computer scientists. The points can only be dropped to a certain level, because there obviously would be a requirement for honours maths and so on. We now seem to be too dependent on overseas employers and migrant workers in this area. There may be some increase, but we will not know for some time whether that carries through to third level education and beyond.

Mr. Martin Shanagher

Yet if one looks at the innovation scoreboard that has just been produced by the European Commission, Ireland is in first place for output of science and engineering graduates. We are actually quite good when compared to other countries, but we still have major challenges because of the technology industries here and the pace at which they are growing.

I thank Mr. Gorman for that very comprehensive outline of the Department's strategy. There clearly has been a major failing for decades in regional development. Does he think the Department's current strategy will have any chance of success, given that big record of failure? I do not wish to hang that record of failure around Mr. Gorman's neck. There is a particularly low take up of life-long learning initiatives. It is difficult to stimulate workers to go into life-long learning. What do the witnesses think can be done to enhance the take up? Better educated citizens offer huge contributions to the economy and to society. What is the extent of the Department's budget in that area?

We know that indigenous manufacturing is coming under huge pressure from the Middle East and the Far East. Can more be done to stimulate indigenous industry? Research and development has been dealt with to some degree, although the connectivity between academia and enterprise needs to be developed.

We could have an entirely separate meeting on the employment rights regime. I am concerned about that because we have recently seen that over 300 cases of employers paying below the minimum wage were detected, yet there was only one prosecution as a result. Does that concern the Department? What can be done to deal with that issue? We are currently in the middle of a discussion in Private Members' business on agency workers. The Minister asked for those cases to be brought forward so that he could have a look at them. However, the problem is that there is no legislative footing for any of the regulatory authorities to do anything about those with no pension rights, sick pay or who are simply not being paid enough for the jobs they are doing.

Mr. Seán Gorman

The regionalisation issue is a challenge and our enterprise agencies have been especially focused on it, following direction by the Government. This can be seen by the attitude of the IDA in its efforts to attract foreign direct investment into the country, and by the efforts of Enterprise Ireland in helping the indigenous sector to develop. The IDA set a target of 53% of new greenfield projects in the regions and it has been scoring some successes. It has not met the 53% target yet, but the focus is on that strategy. We are building on the national spatial strategy to get a better regional spread of investment. We have been working closely with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment on that area.

I spoke earlier about the fact that many different things in the system affect competitiveness, whether it is broadband, road networks, airports and ports. We interact across the Departments in trying to influence our colleagues to address some of these issues. Regionalisation is still a big focus for the agencies. The EU state aids regime agreed last year still gives us some flexibility across the regions to provide greater levels of State aid. However, because of the extent to which the economy has developed, our capacity to put large amounts of money into that area has been reduced. Regionalisation remains a challenge and a priority for the agencies and we will continue with it. It is built on many building blocks such as roads, railways, airports and broadband and so on, as well the cost of doing business in different places due to local authority charges and the like.

Lifelong learning has been one of our key priorities. We have devoted significant funding to the area of skills and upskilling. We are very committed to increasing the participation levels of employees in education and training. We are investing €490 million in all forms of training. Much of that money goes out through FÁS and a significant portion is spent by Skillnets as well. A large part of the €490 million, approximately €152 million, is aimed at training for those in employment, of which FÁS is one of the main deliverers. Excluding apprenticeships, this year we will spend very significant funding on those in employment. It is a very considerable increase on the levels of spend up to 2004 when we were spending only approximately €8 million in that area.

The changing workplace is a challenge. That individuals need to upskill themselves so they are able to avail of the changing job opportunities is one of our considerations. Another is that having an skilled and adaptable workforce is important in competitiveness terms. We have done much work through the expert group on future skills needs which brought out the broad strategy document on the lifelong learning agenda. The idea and concept of the One Step Up initiative was contained in the Eoin O'Driscoll report, Ahead of the Curve, which considered some of the issues for enterprise policy and development.

The expert group on future skills needs is finishing a new piece of work for us at present. It is examining the issue raised in the Deputy's question, namely, what we can do to improve take-up and to incentivise not just individuals but companies to make this happen. The expert group has almost completed its work of considering options and coming up with ideas. It is examining a range of issues from the possibilities for paid learning leave through individual learning accounts for employees and the various possibilities for tax breaks among other measures. They will be offered to the Minister and the Government as a menu of possibilities. Where they go and how the Government decides to treat them I cannot say at this point because we do not have the final report.

From time to time one will hear loose comment that manufacturing in Ireland is finished or that we are no longer competitive, which is nonsense. Manufacturing remains critical to our economy and employment market. We will not be doing the kind of manufacturing we did ten, 15 or 20 years ago, which was at the low end, because we are no longer competitive and would be kidding ourselves and everyone else if we thought we could stay in that space. However, higher end manufacturing is an area on which we are concentrating. The efforts in that regard are complemented by the spend on research, skills and other areas.

During the Towards 2016 partnership talks, the issue of where manufacturing in Ireland is going became a very significant issue. The social partners agreed it was an issue that needed to be considered very carefully to ascertain how we can position ourselves to continue to attract what inevitably will be the higher end manufacturing as distinct from the lower value manufacturing in which we had been involved. The high level manufacturing group emerged during those partnership talks as a response to that challenge. It has been meeting over the past year or so and my understanding is it is literally a number of weeks away from presenting its report to the Minister, Deputy Martin, who will then consider it and take it to Government. Manufacturing remains one of our key priorities.

Employment rights are very important. We often talk about competitiveness but the Department is also very aware of what I call the wider contribution to social inclusion, including protecting not just workers' pay and other entitlements but also their rights and health and safety. During the Towards 2016 negotiations, before they reached the wider main agenda, the issue of employment rights was a major one that had to be addressed satisfactorily before the social partners moved on. Many positives came out of the Towards 2016 process. New legislation was enacted in 2007 as a direct consequence of the agreements that were reached in Towards 2016, namely, the Protection of Employment (Exceptional Collective Redundancies and Related Matters) Act 2007. This provides a new method of addressing what we call exceptional collective redundancy situations and protects against the potential misuse of collective dismissals in industrial dispute situations, sometimes commonly referred to as "Irish Ferries on land" type of scenarios. That was a very important development in terms of employment rights.

A second significant development which emerged from the Towards 2016 partnership talks was the establishment of the National Employment Rights Authority, which is soon to be put on a statutory basis. We are in the final stages of having the legislation drafted. The significant point is the extent to which the resources of the State in terms of policing and enforcing employment rights have been significantly increased and we will have 90 labour inspectors complemented by a significant management team which will include lawyers, accountants and professional people to support the labour inspectors on the ground. When they go into companies, they are sometimes taking on the best brains in the financial and legal worlds so they need to be as well equipped as possible.

We have also brought in language skills. We advertised in the national media for ten specific labour inspector posts with language skills, in particular central and eastern European language skills. All those inspectors have been recruited and we are in the process of going through the necessary Garda clearances for the last four or five, so there has been solid progress.

The Deputy is correct that the statistics on prosecutions are at a low level. The National Employment Rights Authority has both an advocacy and an enforcement role and the advocacy aspect will be increasingly important. The authority has briefed the social partners, including the employers and the trade unions, and has carried out roadshows since it was established on an interim basis pending statutory establishment when the Bill is enacted this year. Sometimes, it is more efficient to get restitution for people who have been wronged by finding the employer is willing to sort out the matter, pay the arrears and put his operation on a positive and proper footing. The authority will tend, where it can, to try work on that basis which is more efficient than taking people through the courts which takes a lot of time and expense. This is not to say there will not be prosecutions, which there will be. We are much better equipped for this in terms of the training of our labour inspectors, who are benefiting from the expertise we have recruited in the legal and financial area, and the benefit we get simply from having greater numbers.

A good example in the newspapers last Sunday was a National Employment Rights Authority advertisement explaining it was undertaking a campaign with regard to the security industry. That is a double-edged sword in that it is telling people the authority will be there to help them but it is also suggesting it would be coming to call and that the industry needed to be aware of this. This is a positive development.

While the number of prosecutions is low, I would expect to see more. However, this is not just about prosecutions. I would hope that when the authority is further developed and has bedded down its resources, we will see more, perhaps high profile, prosecutions. It is important for the authority to get some early wins.

The issue of agency workers is live in the Dáil Chamber given the Private Members' debate which began yesterday. It is a difficult issue which exercises the minds of many people from the trade unions through to the employers and the Government side. In many senses, the eventual solution will probably be somewhat of a balance between the extremes at either end of the spectrum. It is important to note there are two issues around the issue of agency workers. The first is the extent to which agencies are licensed. There is a regulatory framework for agencies, the objective being that if something is amiss, we can get at someone and the labour inspector can come calling on someone to explain that as the agency is licensed and has a responsible person or presence in the country, the inspector can talk to that person and get engagement.

The second major issue — and this is the one that was very much to the fore at the Portuguese Presidency Council meeting in December — is parity or equal treatment for agency workers by comparison with permanent workers. This issue is still playing out at both the European level and at a domestic level. We agreed under Towards 2016 that we would publish legislation to provide for the licensing and regulation of agencies. We are currently going to Government with a new set of heads of a Bill and we hope to have the legislation drafted and published soon. It will not be extensive legislation.

I expect the broader issue on which parity of treatment or equal treatment will be dealt with will be a key part of the current pay round negotiations to which the Taoiseach extended an invitation to the social partners last Friday. There are several considerations in this regard. It is important to stress that agency workers are not without rights. Regardless of nationality, agency workers, together with what are termed posted workers from overseas who come here to work temporarily, have the same rights under employment rights legislation as Irish employees. That is important in terms of the minimum wage and various other statutory minima that are put in place.

They also have access to the industrial relations machinery of the State, namely, the employment rights commissioner service, the Labour Court and the employment appeals tribunals. The major issue that needs to be addressed is equal treatment, what it means and when agency workers qualify for it. The issue is playing out at two levels; at European Union level and at the level of the domestic partnership talks which are, I hope, about to get under way in a matter of weeks.

People tend to equate agency workers with migrant workers. That is not the case, as the term incorporates workers across many sectors. I accept migrant workers are involved but they are not the only ones. Many people have good experiences of agency working and no more than other sectors, some people had bad experiences also. We continue to work on this issue. The outcome will be influenced by what happens at the European level but it will be addressed and delivered in the context of the partnership talks.

I reiterate the welcome and congratulations to the Department officials on the level of work achieved in 2006.

In regard to regional development, I was pleased to hear the reference to the national spatial strategy because I did not see it mentioned in the statement of strategy, especially under the objective relating to regional development. Mr. Gorman is correct; the IDA is falling short of its BMW target. It has achieved approximately 38%, which is well short of 50%. I get a sense that the IDA is not overly concerned about this. I would welcome an increase in the priority afforded by the Department to the national spatial strategy. I also wish to hear more about the Department's interaction with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in that regard.

What is the position regarding the business regulation forum? ISME came to the committee in recent weeks and its opinion is that an average SME has to fill out hundreds of forms on an annual basis but that this could be reduced to ten forms. The proposed reviews of company law, labour law and health and safety generally result in more forms and more regulations. What has been achieved in terms of reducing the burden of red tape on business? This is a priority of the committee.

Mr. Gorman referred to encouraging older workers and the retention of older workers in the system. Will he comment on community employment schemes and FÁS's policy regarding people aged over 60 not being able to fully participate in them? That is a particular loss of talent and knowledge for a spurious reason.

What is the position regarding the groceries order? Does Mr. Gorman plan to carry out an impact assessment on the abolition of the groceries order? We were told its abolition would be the answer to all our problems but I suspect food prices have not come down, with one exception. Again, I ask Mr. Gorman to clarify the degree of cross-departmental work. It is unclear whether the abolition of the groceries order is a cause of or merely coincides with the timing of the current price war in the sale of alcohol. This is particularly evident in the supermarket sector where the sale of alcohol is largely unregulated. Has Mr. Gorman done any work with the Department of Health and Children, for instance, in researching whether the abolition of the groceries order has facilitated this price war?

What is the turnaround time for green card and work permit applications? Members regularly receive representations from people experiencing long delays in the processing of their work permits applications. When businesses seek to employ people under these schemes, particularly the work permit scheme, they cannot afford a lengthy delay. I am aware of one case where it has taken four months to process an application for a chef. This seems unnecessarily lengthy and is unhelpful.

We all welcome the fantastic rate of progress in working towards an all-island economy. However, is the Department taking action to guard against the potential for displacement, particularly along the Border? Is there evidence of businesses moving to the North to avail of any commercial or Government assistance that might be offered? Has that come on to the radar as a potential issue arising from efforts to achieve an all-island economy?

Returning to regional development, one of the major issues facing rural Deputies is the decline of businesses in rural areas. I refer in particular to smaller family owned businesses, the small shops that were the staple of rural life for many years. County enterprise boards are potentially the best way of assisting such businesses but they are restricted in what they can do. Will the Department consider protecting these important services by freeing up the capacity of county enterprise boards to help existing businesses rather than focusing purely on new businesses?

I welcome Mr. Gorman's comments on manufacturing. The louder they are communicated from the Department and its agencies the better. There is a general perception that manufacturing here is dead. It should be shouted from the rooftops that the opposite is true and that there is a good future for manufacturing. Deputy Clune referred to the importance of encouraging people into the fields of science and engineering. It would help if such people were made aware that there is a future for them here, as Mr. Gorman clearly stated there is.

I congratulate the Department on its work and that of its agencies. They tend to get least credit for the development of the State in the past ten years but have probably done the most work.

Mr. Seán Gorman

I thank Deputy Calleary for acknowledging the focus I have placed on regional development. It will very much continue to be part of our focus.

The work on the national spatial strategy is extremely important for us. The decision on where to locate is obviously one for the business itself to make. However, we seek to create an environment and a package of incentives that help them make their decision and, in particular, to focus on the regions when considering location. The same applies with indigenous companies. We continue to work with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to push as hard as we can for the delivery of the spatial strategy and to ensure, from a competitiveness point of view, that the necessary investment goes to the gateway towns and regions.

Ours is an advocacy role in that we do not control the Department's budgets but we continue to emphasise the importance of regional development. We take a similar advocacy role in working with the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources on the provision of broadband. We will continue to do all we can to push for the national spatial strategy. We have maximised the opportunities available to us under the State aids regulations for putting funds and other types of supports into companies that are locating in the regions. We push to the limit of those regulations in what we do. We are somewhat constrained but we exploit the flexibility that exists.

On the business regulation agenda, this is one of the areas about which businesses have expressed concerned and we have been working closely with them in this regard. The better regulation group was chaired by Mr. Dónal de Butléir who did some early work on the issue of the regulatory burden and challenge.

It produced a report which was focused on businesses. Up to 800 companies operating in Ireland were surveyed as to their views on the extent to which regulatory burdens were being imposed. Interestingly, in international terms, Ireland is regarded as being lightly regulated and scores very well in international surveys that measure flexibility of doing business, openness of the economy and so on. A survey was conducted recently by the Wall Street Journal in conjunction with a foundation in the United States. They considered issues of freedom to do business across ten headings, which included questions such as how easy it is to establish a company, deal with the tax system of deal with labour law. Of 157 countries surveyed, Ireland came third. While I am open to correction, I believe the two countries that came ahead of us were Singapore and another country that I cannot recall. However, we were the best-performing EU member state and third of 157 countries. While this result was encouraging, it is not to say there is complacency in this regard.

At around the time Donal de Butléir produced his report, a parallel development took place in Europe in which the Heads of Government in Europe set an overall target to reduce the regulatory burden by 25%. We decided to build on the work of the business regulation forum and form a committee in our Department of businesses and unions, chaired by me, to take forward the better regulation agenda. On the basis of the survey of businesses, we have identified where they consider regulation to hurt most. The five areas identified were taxation, environment, statistical collection, health and safety and company law. The Department did not try to tell them as bureaucrats where it hurt most but asked them to help it achieve the required focus in this regard. This has been done and the committee is now working painstakingly through a number of issues that they told us were hurtful.

Some helpful decisions have been taken. For example, raising the threshold for audit exemptions has been highly beneficial. We also have introduced an on-line calculator for calculating redundancy payments entitlements and have quantified the amount of savings generated by these initiatives. A range of issues are being considered in the committee at present, including what appears to the business community to constitute overlap and duplication in statistical collection. For example, the Central Statistics Office, CSO, might come calling one week, the Companies Registration Office the next, and some of our enterprise agencies on the third. We wish to ascertain the extent to which information can be shared. For example, it might be collected by the CSO and shared with others or vice versa. Much work is taking place in this regard.

This agenda will run and run. It is not the kind of agenda that one can claim to have been completed after a few months. It constitutes an enormous challenge because much regulation comes down to us. Members should consider the legislative programmes of the Dáil and the EU, from which much legislation and many rules are emerging. It is important to state that not all regulation is bad nor is all regulation necessarily a burden. Much regulation serves as an enabler and provides opportunities to do business. Regulation puts in place many safeguards and protections for shareholders or workers. Consequently, I would not state that regulation is necessarily bad. The issue is whether the burden is proportionate and whether it can be done better in a less burdensome fashion.

As for the Department putting proposals on new policy initiatives or legislation to the Government, it has introduced regulatory impact assessment, which now must be carried out on all new policy proposals. This also is useful because it forces the system to make a conscious decision as to the extent to which a particular proposal or directive imposes a burden. This also is now happening at EU level.

I refer to older workers and community employment. Community employment is a finite resource and, as members are aware, many tensions have played out in recent years in respect of its use. On the one hand, it is used as an instrument that is aimed at helping people to progress to the labour market while, on the other, many community services and other wider social services were, and still are, built around the availability of people on community employment. The age limits have been extended but there are cut-off points. At present, the Department is working on the basis that community employment really is needed from a labour market point of view. Thankfully, Ireland has a relatively low rate of long-term unemployment. The last time I checked, the rate stood at approximately 1.3% or 1.4%. It is not unreasonable to have some custom-made instruments that are aimed at trying to help those who are long-term unemployed and who have labour market difficulties to make progress. The problem is that unless one has an infinite flow of money, blocking the pipeline with people permanently sitting there defeats the objective of progression, and we have made some changes in recent years. For example, we transferred responsibility for the social economy programme from our Department to the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, on the basis that it related more to social and local economy matters than to being labour market driven. It belonged more properly in that space. While we do what we can with the available resources, they are finite and we continue to protect the principle that it is intended to be a progression-based programme. Somewhere in that system, there must be a cut-off and that is partly determined by—

I will pursue this issue with the Secretary General. One of the Department's policies is to encourage more older workers to remain in, or return to, the workforce. Unfortunately, in labour market conditions, those who are 60 or more will not be on the top of the list to get a job. As the Secretary General has noted, some community employment schemes are involved in social services. I have encountered a couple of cases in which people work as carers and make a highly important contribution to someone else's personal life. However, they will be obliged to give it all up simply on reaching a certain age. As they will not be able get a job in the labour market, they will go on jobseeker's benefit until they qualify for a pension. This, in turn, will have an impact on their own personal lives in terms of their health and sense of well-being. I cannot imagine that many people between the ages of 60 and 65 will begin blocking the long-term unemployed. Can the two departmental priorities not be married? There should be job advancement and labour market progression, while also encouraging older workers to remain in, or return to, the workforce. Can the two aims not be married?

Mr. Seán Gorman

While they have been to an extent, as the Deputy is aware a cut-off applies. It is a factor both of trying to keep the pipeline moving and of resources. Any change in that arrangement will require policy change, either at ministerial or Government level, or both. I cannot offer the Deputy a change in that policy this morning.

I accept that. While I understand the Secretary General may not have the figure to hand, how much would it cost to extend the community employment scheme to the age of 65 on an annual basis?

Mr. Seán Gorman

While I am unable to give the Deputy a figure off the top of my head, I can have it calculated and can revert to the Deputy in this regard.

Yes, I would appreciate that.

Mr. Seán Gorman

I could not begin to estimate it off the top of my head.

I am delighted to welcome the officials from the Department today. They have provided all members with a fantastic resource in the form of statistics and other supports on which they can draw over the years. Two issues have not been brought up in this morning's discussions thus far. I refer to how our competitiveness will be protected in an era of peak oil, particularly as the price of oil has again risen to more than $100 dollars a barrel, and how we will attempt to protect the economy in this new, hopefully post-carbon era, in the face of climate change concerns and rising peak oil prices. What are the reflections of the Department's forward-thinking sections in respect of protecting Ireland's competitiveness?

Ensuring investment in renewable energy technologies will be a key driver for Ireland. While I am sure the Secretary General is familiar with the figure, investment in renewable energy jobs in Ireland is approximately 7%, while parts of Germany have gone to 48%, thereby creating dynamic new jobs and employment in a new sector. In respect of the difficulties associated with reaching peak oil and with climate change, the picture is not all doom and gloom. These difficulties can be turned to a competitive advantage. I am sure the Department has sorted out this issue for the future.

Page 9 of Mr. Gorman's speech mentions disability, an area in which I am interested. Approximately 80% of people with a disability are unemployed, which is a significant number. The supported employment schemes which run in some counties, particularly Carlow and Kilkenny, and the community employment schemes to which my colleague has referred are significant sources of employment. It is a cause of great social pride in the community when people can get out there and work. It is very important that the disability sector is looked after.

In respect of the sectoral plan for the Department on disability and the Disability Bill 2004, what is the uptake and how is it working with people with disabilities? Many of my constituents say it is not worthwhile applying for a job because they have a disability and ask how they are going to get on to the rung and prove they have good degrees and are able despite having a physical disability that an employer is not willing to acknowledge in terms of taking them on as an employee?

I welcome the fact that 280 jobs will be created in Carlow. I was in Carlow the day the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment opened the offices there. It has made a significant difference to the quality of life of people who do not have to take the 6.35 a.m. train from Carlow to Dublin. They can walk, cycle or have a short commute to work. This is the way we should be going. There should be quality jobs and a quality environment near to home so that family life can also be protected.

Mr. Seán O’Gorman

Competitiveness is a topic that has cropped up in a number of contexts this morning and is very much at the top of our agenda. Competitiveness is crucial in respect of continuing to prosper in an increasingly competitive global environment, not just in the context of attracting foreign direct investment here but also in terms of our indigenous companies being able to compete both on the home market against other competitors and overseas in terms of experts.

There are both opportunities and threats out there. Oil, which was already mentioned, is one of the external risks that come at us and over which we have very little direct control. Oil price increases; the exchange rate, including the continued appreciation of the euro against the dollar and sterling; the fallout from the subprime lending crisis, with its implications for the US economy and wider economies; and generally slower world growth are risks that exist and that are evident in some cases. We must factor in others.

In respect of internal risks, cost competitiveness remains an issue. Controlling inflation and trying to reduce the cost of doing business as much as possible, trying to enhance productivity and helping companies to enhance productivity are all competitiveness challenges. The cost of wages and infrastructural investments that are needed and that are addressed in the national development plan are other considerations in terms of affecting our competitiveness.

I will discuss matters at Government level and then discuss our Department and some of the measures we have in place which we suggest will help us address some of these competitiveness challenges. The more recent targets handed down by the leaders of the EU member states in terms of addressing climate change, while very positive from an environmental point of view, also present challenges in terms of the cost of doing business. Again, it is a doubled-edged sword. It is very positive in terms of the environment but challenging in terms of the cost of doing of business.

At national level, the Government is giving a major push and the Minister for Finance in his budget speech spoke about how the delivery of commitments under the national development plan remains an absolute priority, notwithstanding whatever issues he may have in terms of Exchequer receipts and managing the public purse. The Minister has provided the necessary funds for dealing with that.

The Department of Finance and the Government are addressing inflation and various issues in the pay talks around wage costs. Other labour market issues affecting business and workers will be addressed. From the perspective of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, our primary targets are the national skills strategy; the science, technology and innovation programme; and the various instruments we have for directly supporting enterprises. They are the three main weapons we are deploying in trying to help address the competitiveness and development challenges for industry.

We are also focusing on competition and consumers in support of that. What are we doing? We talked earlier about the national skills strategy and the extra money we are putting in there in terms of trying to help people achieve this one step up objective and helping to meet the skills deficits Mr. Shanagher spoke about in response to one of the questions. A new Minister for State has been appointed to the Department of Education and Science, Deputy Seán Haughey, who crosses over into our Department with his particular and specific brief in respect of skills to help get the kind of co-ordination that is needed between what happens in the education area and our area. The area of skills is one of our major planks in addressing the competitiveness challenge.

The science strategy, which was mentioned, is another key building block and a key way for us to address competitiveness. We are seeing significant planned investment under the national development plan in science. In the period up to 2013, we will spend something like €8.2 billion in addressing a range of investment under the science strategy in both human capital, physical infrastructure and helping with the commercialisation of research. In addition, there are a range of programmes aimed at innovation and research and development that are being delivered by Enterprise Ireland and the IDA in support of that central strategy. I understand the total spend, when one factors in what is coming directly from central spend and what is coming through agencies, will be approximately €20 billion over the lifetime of the national development plan so there is a significant commitment. The strategy is out there, the people are up and at it and the major issue for us as we go forward will be the extent to which we are getting delivery and seeing a return on that.

Continuing to attract FDI must be very much a part of our continuing strategy for addressing our economy and its needs. While we spoke earlier about the importance of manufacturing, some of which will be FDI while some will be indigenous, FDI will remain very important. We are a very small domestic market. We have a very strong focus. I understand this committee heard from Enterprise Ireland not too long ago about what it is planning to do for the indigenous sector. FDI remains very important. Again, all of the things that are needed in terms of infrastructure, such as the national spatial strategy, the roll-out of broadband and addressing issues like local authority waste and water charges, are all very important. We are working across Departments in trying to address these.

In working with indigenous companies, Enterprise Ireland has set itself a number of very specific export targets which it hopes to meet through working with these companies. It has set out to reach a target of €4 billion in export sales over the three-year period up to 2010. It has a number of strategies where it hopes we will address the competitiveness challenges, focusing on high-potential start-ups, helping existing companies grow to a level of scale in which they have not been before, driving the area of innovation and research in indigenous companies and focusing on the new opportunities presented by the services sector.

Going back to climate change and the challenges posed by the EU strategy, there are opportunities for new types of business and for businesses to branch out and enter different areas, be they energy efficiency or new product initiatives. Enterprise Ireland has set up a new section aimed at examining and helping to exploit the opportunities presented by the climate change agenda.

In respect of helping small businesses to respond to the competitiveness challenge, the Small Business Forum has reported but what is significant is the extent to which we are now working on implementing the recommendations of the forum's report. I mentioned one of the things we have already done in the context of better regulation, namely, increasing the threshold for the exemption from audits.

In the context of better regulation, I mentioned increasing the audit exemption threshold from €1.5 million to €7.3 million, thereby reducing the regulatory burden. Recent budgets incorporated various packages. For example, we extended the business expansion and seed capital schemes, we made changes in VAT — cash accounting and registration thresholds — a new tax break was introduced for companies investing significantly in research and development, a new innovation voucher scheme for small businesses was launched, there is a new tech-check programme and we have established a new management development council to drive the agenda of understanding how to help companies to improve their managerial capabilities within the sector, an important competitiveness consideration. With the Minister and Forfás, we are also working on a new statement on how to encourage and foster entrepreneurship.

These are some of the measures we are taking to try to address competitiveness challenges. With the Chairman's permission, Mr. Ó Morain or Mr. Shanagher, both of whom work in the competitiveness sector, may want to add to my comments.

Mr. Seamus Ó Morain

What Deputy White is getting at is the concept of a sustainable industrial development policy. She made the point about the cost of peak oil, but the concern is international competitiveness. If we are paying $100 per barrel for oil, China and the US are also paying $100. This is not to suggest complacency, as we are more dependent on fossil fuels than most of Europe's economies. This will, therefore, affect our energy costs. We are the fourth costliest country in Europe in terms of energy.

There are no easy solutions. When one discusses moving towards renewable sources and so on, nothing in that agenda will reduce energy costs significantly. Such costs will be driven by the creation of an all-Ireland market and more sources of energy generation and competition through the east-west linkage with the UK, thereby leading to a more efficient and effective dominant player in our economy.

Business has a responsibility to respond to the climate change agenda, which it is doing through the emissions trading regime, its dedicated system. I would argue that business and enterprise have contributed more to the sustainable climate change agenda than the rest of the economy. If one considers the experience of the past ten to 15 years, gross domestic product has increased by 200% to 300% and emissions from enterprise have increased by approximately 125%, reflecting a disconnect between it and GDP growth. The major emitters' emissions allowances are defined under the emissions trading process, the cap-and-trade system. Enterprises are given allowances equivalent to approximately 90% of their emissions during the preceding three years, forcing them either to take action to reduce their emissions or to buy carbon credits on the international market. From a climate change point of view, it does not matter where the emissions reduction occurs. Whether one achieves it through the closure of a dirty steel mill in eastern Europe or here, it is a global issue.

The Minister is keen to exploit the potential for opportunities. In addition to the Enterprise Ireland initiatives mentioned by Mr. Gorman, an all-island study on how to identify and be the first to take advantage of future opportunities is being carried out under the auspices of Forfás and in which we are participating.

I am sure our guests are familiar with the new all-island grid study that was launched recently by the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Ryan, on greening the all-island economy. Instead of offsetting our dirty emissions by buying carbon credits, it would be good for the economy to advance the renewable energy sector. Neither of the speakers discussed how poorly we are doing in terms of the development of renewable energy technologies, although we are still at the baby stage. Schleswig-Holstein in Germany has achieved a level of 48% in this respect and, after Easter, the committee will visit Gussing in Austria where more than 50 companies have been brought in because it has dedicated renewable energy technologies with combined heat and power anaerobic digestion and biomass. Thanks to Gussing's surplus of clean green energy, companies can set up and have a competitive advantage. Instead of telling ourselves that we may not be doing too badly, we should concentrate on doing better by focusing on renewable energy development in terms competitiveness and jobs. It would be a new way to develop the economy and to keep it buoyant.

Deputy White raised the disability issue.

Mr. Seán Gorman

Without buck passing, the primary responsibility for energy lies with the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, which is actively promoting the alternative energy agenda. We are not the primary drivers of alternative energy as an agenda in its own right, but we are examining the business opportunities presented by it. For this reason, we are undertaking the work referred to by Mr. Ó Morain and Enterprise Ireland has set up a new section. We are approaching the issue from two perspectives. The primary energy agenda is being driven by the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and the business opportunity aspect is being driven by our agency, Enterprise Ireland. We will be further informed by the all-island study.

We are still grappling with the challenge of maximising the participation of persons with disabilities. We have a number of initiatives and subsidy schemes and FÁS provides various grants to industry to provide for people to work side-by-side with people with disabilities and who need specific types of help. The Minister would not have a problem with me telling the committee that he has asked us to examine the schemes to determine the extent to which they work or require modification. He is not 100% happy that we are getting the outcome levels expected from the schemes and he has initiated a review within the Department of the extent to which the wage subsidy scheme, for example, and other similar schemes are working. As some of the issues in this matter relate to secondary benefits, medical cards and so on, it is linked with the health service. Security concerning the retention of medical cards is of significant importance to people with an ongoing need for medicines or particular types of medical care. We are re-examining the matter.

I welcome the group, including Mr. Gorman, the Secretary General of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Job creation is not an easy task and many issues face the Department. I commend the Minister, Deputy Martin, who is doing an excellent job travelling the world to procure industry.

It was stated that we are not competitive, which we hear every day of the week, but why has someone not put down on paper all the areas in which we are not competitive so that we can work on them? We are told about wages, oil and so on, but we dismiss the matter by saying we are not competitive. It is not good enough that we have not identified the areas in question to determine how to improve our situation.

A matter of concern is the policy of IDA Ireland to cluster industries in centres instead of looking after towns. I come from the Cork East constituency. Major towns such as Youghal, Mallow and Cobh have no jobs in the industrial front and were leaders in the field of industry less than a decade ago. The trend is towards clustering, as was done at Newbridge, Shannon and Galway, and it is a break from tradition. It is an Irish policy, not one imposed by those who bring inward investment. This should be changed so that everyone gets their fair share of industry and jobs. Some good industries are coming to the area in the high-tech, pharmaceutical and other sectors. The towns are entitled to them.

Enterprise Ireland is a good organisation but Ireland is becoming a food assembly industry country. We assemble food and repackage it. This cheap food comes through Rotterdam from Caribbean and South American and Third World countries. I come from a rural background and this is a challenge to the agricultural industry. Perhaps not much can be done about it but it is no harm to highlight and expose it.

The pigs and poultry industries were two big rural employers that are probably coming to the end of their time. We have lost a few sugar beet industry companies due to EU policy. Rural Ireland is at risk in those areas. Not much can be done but if we do not do something, we will have nothing.

Prices have increased rather than decreased since the abolition of the groceries order. Recently, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform stated that he would review licensing law. The retailers and multiples are the main drivers of the alcohol industry on the retail side. We see an influx of cheap quality beers into the country, with high levels of alcohol. This leads to problems. We also see pricing cuts and competition between retailers in trying to get market share. People drink large quantities and abuse the drink system. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is correct and drink should not have been part of the groceries order. I vehemently opposed its abolition and this committee was to the forefront and studied it. We lost the battle and I do not know if we will win the war. If we are to control drinking and the youth on our street we need a change of heart. The Minister requires our full support if we will have proper controls in that area. The current situation leads to abuses and people buying huge volumes in off-licences.

I drove to Dublin recently and passed a hardware shop. A sign on the wall advertised the opening of a new off-licence in the hardware shop. That is a free for all situation and it is not good enough. There is not much the Secretary General can do because it is not part of the Department's brief. It is an open ended situation. The abolition of the groceries order has not worked for the consumer, in spite of what was said, in the area of below cost selling.

The matter of employment rights came to my attention during the general election. The vice chairman of the Employment Appeals Tribunal is appointed by the Government or the Department. One of the vice chairmen, who presides over the Employment Appeals Tribunal, was canvassing for a political party during the election in a town with high unemployment. What are the regulations governing that situation? What are the terms of his or her appointment? This is not on and does not look well. It was brought to my attention to make an issue of it during the election but I did not want to do so. I raise it because the Department is the regulatory authority and these people are appointed under the Department's remit. I seek clarification on that aspect. I thank the delegation and appreciate that their job is not easy, but as rural Deputies we also face challenges.

Mr. Seán Gorman

In case I was misunderstood, I would not say we are not competitive but we are not so foolish as to state that we do not have competitive challenges. Some of our success demonstrates that, despite the matters we spoke about, we have enjoyed remarkable successes in terms of export growth, employment and attracting foreign direct investment. If I were to use foreign direct investment as an indicator in the bio-pharma sector, Eli Lilly has recently joined Schering-Plough, Wyeth, Genzyme and Centocor, some of the biggest names in the world in that sector. In digital media, Amazon has arrived in Cork, Dublin has Google and there is also eBay, PayPal and Yahoo. We have much success in the ICT sector, such as Cisco, IBM, Netgear, Sandisk and Trend Micro and other companies in financial services, medical technology and other sectors. It is not that we are not competitive. The information from the IDA is that the pipeline of new investments is reasonably healthy.

If a few were set up in east Cork they would be welcome and we would invite Mr. Gorman to the functions.

Mr. Seán Gorman

I would be delighted to pass that on to another Cork man later today. Regarding clustering and the IDA, regionalisation is part of the strategy. We can do all we can in terms of addressing the infrastructural deficits and offering the maximum support under state aid but the reality is that we cannot force a company into a certain place. It is the company's call. All the system can do is facilitate and make it as attractive as possible. I am confident the IDA is pursuing that agenda, as is Enterprise Ireland where appropriate.

Deputy O'Keeffe referred to the food sector and his concerns about it. Enterprise Ireland is working with the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to develop the sector and increase opportunities in it. No more than any other sector, there are competitiveness challenges and it is a question of the extent to which we can carve out niches in the area in which we are competitive. I am not the greatest expert on the food sector — my colleagues in the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food would be more up to speed. The resources of Enterprise Ireland will continue to be made available to help agriculture, the Minister and the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to promote the food sector and work with companies in the food sector.

Regarding the groceries order, prices have increased and there are all kinds of considerations arising. One need only look at what is happening in the markets with the prices of commodities. We are awaiting an analysis from the Competition Authority on the impact of the groceries order in the first year since the introduction of the new regime. It will be interesting to see what the new analysis tells us. We do not have that analysis and I am not in a position to dig deeper into what is happening in terms of prices and increases.

A committee under the auspices of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is examining the social downside of excessive alcohol drinking and binge drinking. This Department is participating in the committee and we are working with our colleagues in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The committee is examining a range of issues, including price, licensing hours, increases in tax and whether the groceries order is an instrument to use in order to bring in deterrents to make alcohol more expensive or difficult to acquire. I cannot pre-empt what the outcome will be. The work of the group will go from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the Government and the final call will be made by the Government.

I refer to the issue of employment rights and the Equality Appeals Tribunal. There is a general rule that civil servants, such as the people at this table, are not free to actively participate in politics. I will have to look up the precise terms of appointment of people in the employment appeals tribunals with regard to the obligations or restrictions on active participation in politics. If the Chairman agrees I will revert to the committee on that as I do not have that information to hand and it would be wrong of me to start guessing. It is something that is precise and I will share it with the committee.

You can pass it to the Deputy when it is available.

With regard to inward investment, this country has promoted clustering of industrial sites, such as those in Newbridge and Carrigtwohill. This policy did not come from the North Americans, the Japanese or the Germans. We have encouraged that and taken the investment from rural towns and areas.

Mr. Seán Gorman

IDA Ireland will state—

It is much cheaper for the country but it upsets the fabric of large rural towns. I would like this policy, which was introduced in the past seven years, to be reversed.

Mr. Seán Gorman

The information I have from IDA Ireland is that it can be a competitive advantage and an attraction. While it may serve one agenda, it may cause the problems described by Deputy O'Keeffe.

In the retail sector in the UK and the United States a cap on the size of stores is proposed. This story was carried in the business press last week. Changes occur and what was done five years ago may not be right in a new context. Civil servants are permanent and they think and change. I would like clustering of industrial sites to be examined and to have a greater spread of industry throughout the country.

I apologise for missing the debate but I was attending another committee meeting. I do not want to ask about matters that were already discussed, I wish to ask about the groceries order. The Competition Authority, a departmental agency, made a submission to the Minister's advisory board on alcohol recommending the continuation of the below-cost selling of alcohol. I understand its ideology but this is an issue of common sense. It is obvious to everyone that selling alcohol cheaply in bulk encourages binge drinking. People buy more alcohol than they used to because it is available cheaply. The Competition Authority should consider withdrawing this comment or elaborating further. It is the one mistake caused by the ending of the groceries order. The Minister was advised on this but he was not pushed enough on it at the early stages.

In the second half of its submission, the same authority recommends an increase in tax on alcohol, which would affect all drinkers, including conservative drinkers. Therefore, the authority states we should not introduce legislation which affects everybody to correct a problem for a few but also suggests increasing the tax on alcohol paid by everybody. It is a strange comment. Will the Department examine this? I appreciate the authority is not a departmental body but it is an agency under the aegis of the Department.

The Chairman, Deputy Penrose, has a particular interest in regulation and red tape, as does the committee, so it might be an idea to invite the Business Regulation Forum to discuss this with the committee. I am delighted the presentation emphasised the importance of our indigenous companies. We used to sell Ireland abroad in a major way and attract business, but that seems to have slowed down. How will we enhance this, given competition with China and India?

Mr. Seán Gorman

We have not slowed down. IDA Ireland is as active as it ever was in seeking opportunities for investment in international markets and we have scored significant wins. The secret is to keep this policy and approach as flexible as possible. We must continue to communicate the message of the opportunities offered by Ireland in terms of its competitive advantages, whether they are skills or infrastructure.

I do not have a sense of it slowing down in terms of activity levels. It is extremely important that IDA Ireland, working with us, keeps attune to new opportunities and new waves of technology, such as in energy. We must see where are these emerging opportunities and markets and how we can make them fit with what we have to offer as a competitive package. In identifying new opportunities we should examine whether we should tweak our system, for example, with regard to the output of particular graduate types.

I thank Mr. Gorman and his officials for attending the meeting. I also thank him for his comprehensive replies to questions put by members. It is helpful for the committee to obtain as much information as possible. Mr. Gorman's contribution was most informative and was of great assistance to the committee.

The joint committee adjourned at 12 noon until 10 a.m. on Wednesday, 5 March 2008.
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