European Union Presidency and Environment Council Meeting: Discussion
The purpose of this meeting is to discuss with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, Ireland's Presidency of the European Union and the Environment Council meeting on 17 December. I propose we discuss the two topics together.
Cuirim fáilte roimh the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan; Mr. John McCarthy, assistant secretary, environment division, and Mr. Pat Macken, principal officer, environment, international and sustainable development division, on behalf of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. Go raibh maith agaibh as teacht i láthair. The Minister will be aware of the rules on the norms that apply to members about parliamentary privilege and I will not go into them.
The forthcoming Presidency of the European Union is important for Ireland as a country, particularly in terms of rebuilding the reputation. However, for us, as a committee, there are some important and pertinent areas that I would like to see dealt with in the context of Ireland's Presidency.
One of the foremost issues is climate change. The committee can play an important role in climate change policy at European level and that opportunity rests on all of us in the committee, whether one is a Member of the Lower or Upper House. I would like to see the Minister take a lead role, for example, in reducing carbon emissions and mitigating the global warming issue. We can take the lead on that. We are ideally placed as an island nation, with a rich maritime history. There is significant potential in terms of renewable energy such as wind energy and on issues with which the Minister is well acquainted.
The Seventh Environment Action Programme is the next big European issue. It will set our environmental agenda until 2020. Among other matters, it will provide guidelines for the management of the Europe Union's natural resources and it will influence the resources we use and how we will use them.
A significant issue is the debate about the use of shale gas and I would like to see us establish a position in that regard. Can we establish, for example, whether there are cleaner, more easily accessible alternative resources, and if not, why? How important is that in terms of developing the alternative? What stance should we as a country take on that issue?
Another issue is housing, not only in terms of how it might impact on us individually in our different areas but in terms of a European-wide approach to issues such as retrofitting. It is significant work. There is a significant function in that regard for the committee in its work in 2013.
The redevelopment of town centres is a critical issue. It is critical to the economic recovery of many town centres and it is good in terms of reigniting the hearts of communities. I would like to see that being pursued in our agenda in the context of the Presidency.
These are important issues, but there are others. Members will have views in that regard. I would remind members of the two issues we are discussing. I would urge them not to stray from them and to keep their contributions germane to those two topics. I call on the Minister to address the committee.
I thank the Chairman and the members for the invitation to discuss Ireland's forthcoming Presidency of the European Union and the agenda for next Monday's meeting of the EU Environment Council in Brussels.
In only 19 days from now, Ireland will be in the hot seat as we take over the Presidency of the European Union on 1 January, a date which will also mark the 40th anniversary of our accession to the European Union or, as it was then known, the European Economic Community. It is our seventh time taking on this challenge and over the past four decades we have garnered an excellent reputation for running successful presidencies. We have been planning for this for over two years and, as they say in racing parlance, we are ready for the off.
In terms of the environment agenda for the Presidency, we intend to accept the baton from the Cypriots, with much work under way at various working parties. We aim to accomplish much in the six months of our Presidency and our level of ambition, in terms of strategy, legislation and international agenda is high. We face many challenges in realising those ambitions, but we believe our aims are achievable. At the end of June 2013, I hope to be able to come back to the committee and account for this high level of ambition with a number of achievements under our belts.
In preparing for the Presidency, we have had extensive engagement on our emerging agenda with my colleague Ministers on the Council and their Departments, and we have had much discussion with the European Parliament and the Commission. I have met the Chair of the Parliament's environment committee on a number of occasions and I have also been engaging actively with the relevant MEP rapporteurs for the files we have been prioritising in the past 15 months or so. Needless to say, I have also been liaising closely with the Commissioner for the Environment, Mr. Janez Potocnik, who met the committee a few weeks ago, and with the Commissioner for Climate Action, Ms Connie Hedegaard, on the pipeline of policy and legislative proposals emerging from the Commission. My team of officials have been in intensive rounds of engagement with the Commission for the past 18 months. It is fair to say that solid foundations have been laid on which I am confident a successful Presidency can be built.
I will broadly outline for the committee our Presidency priorities, focusing on the key dossiers we wish to advance during our six month tenure. As the incoming Presidency, there will be some degree of overlap between many of the dossiers on our Presidency programme and the items that feature on Monday's Council meeting agenda.
Therefore, it might be best if I were first to outline the Council agenda for next Monday's meeting and then provide further detail on the status of dossiers as I discuss the Presidency programme. Next Monday’s Council, which will be the last environment Council under the Cyprus Presidency, will discuss two non-legislative matters. First, the Council will adopt conclusions on a blueprint to safeguard Europe’s water resources. While the water framework directive put forward an integrated approach to water policy a number of years ago, additional actions are needed to protect and improve EU waters. The blueprint sets out a range of policy proposals intended to address the obstacles and challenges in the way of meeting the water quality objectives of the directive and maintaining them into the future. It has the long-term aim of ensuring sufficient availability of good-quality water for sustainable and equitable water use. The blueprint includes over 40 discrete actions to achieve its aim. Most of these are voluntary measures, such as new guidance for member states in areas such as better calculation of costs and benefits and maximising the use of green infrastructure, such as wetlands, in water management. The blueprint objectives will be achieved in the main by improving the implementation of current EU water policy and fostering the integration of water and other policies. The blueprint proposes EU actions only where this offers added value and takes fully into account the very significant differences between and within member states.
There will also be an exchange of views on greening the European semester. This is the process through which the progress of EU member states in delivering on the targets and objectives of the EU 2020 strategy is assessed. As the central mechanism for reporting on policy implementation, it is a key objective of the Environment Council to ensure that environmental considerations are fully integrated into the process in line with the key priority of ensuring that environmental considerations are at the heart of policy making, not least in the area of budgetary and fiscal policy. Members will recall that I dealt in depth with this issue at an early stage in the current Oireachtas term, during Dáil statements on the new sustainable development framework, Our Sustainable Future, which the Government published during the summer. This debate is part of a series of debates taking place in a number of Council formations, the outputs of which will be co-ordinated by the General Affairs Council and then feed into the European Council in March 2013.
The Cypriot Presidency has also scheduled an orientation debate on the seventh environment action programme, which is our Presidency flagship initiative. There are also a number of what are known as any other business matters on next Monday’s agenda which will allow the Presidency and the Commission to update Council on a number of issues. These will include priority substances in water; environmental impact assessment; monitoring and reporting mechanisms for greenhouse gas emissions; indirect land use change; CO2 emissions from new cars and vans; the EU emissions trading scheme in aviation; the carbon market report and proposals to amend the greenhouse gas emission allowances auction time profile, also known as backloading; and, finally, the outcome of the climate negotiations in Doha. I will deal with each one of these in turn as I move through the Presidency priorities.
The seventh environment action programme is a flagship Presidency priority for my Department. The action programme is one of the most fundamental pieces of environmental architecture at EU level and will operationalise the Europe 2020 strategy, including in particular the flagship initiative on resource efficiency. The European Commission published its proposal for a seventh environment action programme at the end of last month. The Cyprus Presidency will open the debate in Council on Monday, a move which I very much welcome as providing important political guidance to the negotiation process for this dossier. We will be working hard on the file from 1 January as we have an ambitious objective to achieve first reading agreement with the Parliament before our Presidency ends. While I recognise this is a stretching target, it is indicative of our own ambition and determination to make real progress on this dossier during our Presidency. Achieving this goal will require focused debate and commitment on our part and will also be dependent on support by the Parliament and member states.
The other key aspect of environmental strategy on which we will be focusing in our Presidency will be the European climate adaptation strategy. If the Commission’s timeline for this major climate policy initiative is adhered to and the proposed publication of the strategy in March 2013 is realised, the Irish Presidency will be aiming to agree Council conclusions at the June Environment Council.
Moving from strategy to legislation, there are a number of files which we will be prioritising and, as I mentioned earlier, the Cypriot Presidency will be providing updates on a number of these at Monday’s Council. The priority substances in water dossier will be a significant priority for Ireland. The Cypriot Presidency was unable to conclude agreement on this file in the light of a postponement by the European Parliament of its vote. It now falls to the Irish Presidency to progress the file and we will be working hard to bring it across the line, with a first reading agreement with the Parliament.
There is also a Commission proposal on ship recycling which is designed to ensure that old ships are recycled in a way that respects the health of workers as well as the environment. Unregulated approaches to ship recycling are common in south east Asia, where old ships are often beached, but can expose workers to a range of harmful chemicals and can also cause environmental damage. We are hoping to achieve a first reading agreement on this dossier so as to facilitate the early coming into force of the Hong Kong convention on a global basis. As the Parliament has published over 100 amendments to the proposal a first reading agreement will not be easy, but we will certainly endeavour to achieve it.
With regard to the Commission proposal to amend the batteries directive to extend the scope of the ban on batteries using certain levels of cadmium, it is our aim to also secure a first reading agreement on this dossier. The two proposals on CO2 emissions from new cars and vans will also mature during our Presidency. These will be given priority and we are working towards achieving first reading agreements on both proposals with the Parliament.
The proposed amendment to the emissions trading directive is an important step in ensuring the legal certainty of the planned proposal to amend the 2013-20 auction time profile. This amendment is designed to defer the auctioning of a significant quantum of carbon allowances until the latter part of the 2013-20 third emissions trading period in order to support the carbon price. We are aiming for a first reading agreement with the Parliament on the underpinning legislative proposal. In a separate emission trading scheme, ETS, development, the Commission has also proposed an aviation ETS stop-the-clock initiative to temporarily defer enforcement of the reporting and compliance obligations on aircraft operators in respect of EU incoming and outgoing flights. The proposal has been introduced to enhance the chances of a successful outcome of the 2013 assembly of the International Civil Aviation Organisation in terms of developing a global market-based measure applicable to international aviation. Again, Ireland is aiming to achieve first reading agreement on this proposal.
As members will appreciate, the programme of legislation I have outlined is significant, but we are aiming to get it across the line to achieve first reading agreements with the Parliament. In addition to that heavy programme of work, we will also be working on a number of other legislative proposals which we will not be able to bring to fruition but will nevertheless progress as much as we possibly can. These include the proposal from the Commission to step up efforts to reduce certain fluorinated greenhouse gas emissions, or F-gases as they are also known, which can have significant climate impacts; a significant proposal on revision of the environmental impact assessment directive, on which an orientation debate will take place at the March 2013 Council, most likely followed by the preparation of a progress report for the June Council; and a Commission proposal for a directive to address indirect land use change, which is both politically and technically complex but which we aim to progress to the point of a progress report which we will then hand over to the Lithuanian Presidency in the second half of the year. I should also mention the LIFE proposal, on which the Cypriot Presidency has made good progress. It was unable to complete the file, however, because the budgetary aspect is much linked to the multi-annual financial framework, MFF. This dossier will now also pass over to us and progress will depend on the degree of movement on the MFF in the early months of next year.
In addition to internal EU business of the kind outlined, my Department will also have to manage the EU’s involvement in a significant international environmental agenda during the Presidency. In that context, there will be four priority areas. The UN Environment Programme, UNEP, has been leading a process of intergovernmental negotiations to agree a global, legally binding treaty on mercury. The fifth and final round of these negotiations will take place in Geneva in January, with responsibility for the co-ordination and negotiation of the EU position falling to the Irish Presidency. The follow-up to the United Nations Conference on Sustainable Development in June, or Rio+20, as it is known, will be another priority for us at EU and UN levels. Progressing the sustainable development goals will be the key piece of work in this area, but we will also have a lead role in managing the EU input to the 23rd session of the UNEP governing council, which will take place in Nairobi in February, as well as preparing for the establishment of a UN high-level political forum on sustainable development, which is due to have its first meeting next September.
Another of our international priorities relates to the environmental aspects of three UN waste and chemicals conventions. We will be co-ordinating EU negotiations in respect of significant meetings of these conventions, which for the first time will be held back-to-back in Geneva during a two-week period in April and May. This will be a logistical challenge for all of us. This approach is designed to achieve significant cost savings and will demonstrate to other parts of the global environmental agenda how international governance can be enhanced through better co-ordination and co-operation.
The critical issue of international climate negotiations arises under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. Both the Cypriot Presidency and the Commission will be updating the Council on Monday on the implications of the outcome of the 18th conference of the parties in Doha last week and the issue will also feature as the topic for the Council’s lunchtime discussion. I would like to set the record straight on a number of issues in this regard. Much has been written in the media in the last two weeks about the latest round of international climate negotiations and the value of sending a delegation from Ireland to help shape the European Union’s policy stance and contribute to a consensus position to which all 195 parties to the convention can sign up.
I take no pleasure in having to say much of what has been written has been ill-informed and involves cheap trivialisation of one of the major challenges the world is facing. If some of those who have commented in such an ill-informed way had gone to the bother of going to Doha and listening to the plight of the least developed countries, especially those that are feeling the effects of climate change in people's everyday lives, they might have a different perspective on how even small countries such as ours can help to shape a global agreement. They might also have seen the extent to which Ireland has worked closely with the former President, Mrs. Mary Robinson, and her Climate Justice Foundation in advancing certain issues within the negotiations. In the week I was in Doha we heard at first-hand about many of the challenges being faced by the developing world. The challenges are wide and varied. At one extreme, on the Marshall Islands in the Pacific, rising sea levels and unseasonal storms - not a distant and theoretical risk but a clear and present danger - are threatening their very existence. At the other extreme, in the arid farmlands of central Africa and Latin America droughts are driving farmers from the land.
Climate change is not an academic concept or a scientific process, rather it is an urgent reality for billions of people around the world, with direct human and environmental consequences. It affects all continents and all zones in different ways, whether it be flooding, extreme temperatures and droughts, or seasonal disruptions which directly impact on the food chain and ecosystems. There is limited scope for individual countries acting alone to tackle climate change successfully. Climate change requires a global solution and the UNFCCC process is the only structure within which we can collectively address the issue and take action to reduce emissions and provide the necessary assistance for developing countries to adapt to the already serious impacts. Internationally, strengthening the means of implementation for both mitigation and adaptation is central to effective action to address the challenges of climate change.
An essential element of the balanced package agreed in Doha is the extension of the Kyoto Protocol until 2020. While we would all like to have seen more emerge from the two weeks of negotiations, the package agreed also includes other very important steps forward that will help to ensure we secure a new global, legally binding agreement by 2015, as agreed in Durban last year. The Doha climate conference was not about starting from scratch but about building on the 2011 Durban agreement and moving towards planning and implementation of various initiatives and actions to prepare for the 2015 agreement and scale up the global response to climate change. Key outcomes from the conference in Doha include: extending the Kyoto Protocol from 2013 to 2020, providing for a continuation of legal binding commitments by some developed countries to reduce greenhouse gas emissions; identifying ways for all parties, both developed and developing countries, to enhance climate change mitigation actions in the medium term between now and 2020 when the new global agreement is to come into force; and setting down a work plan with milestone targets to advance work on the Durban agreement.
Identifying this work plan is crucial in guiding Ireland’s EU Presidency work on climate change negotiations in the first half of 2013. As holder of the EU Presidency, Ireland will have a key role to play in mobilising the 27 member states with a single focus and using our collective contacts and good will to inform and help shape others’ perspectives and actions. The European Union is still a leader and consensus builder in the international climate change process and I intend to ensure Ireland continues that role during the coming months in preparation for the next negotiating sessions in Bonn in April and June. Much work remains to be done in the coming years, but in our role as EU President, we will have a pivotal role in advancing these negotiations and resolving outstanding issues in the next six months. Fortunately, I was able to use my time in Doha to meet many of my environment ministerial colleagues, building on the many bilateral meetings I have held with key member state Ministers in recent months, and also members of the European Parliament’s Environment Committee to brief them on and seek their support for what will be an ambitious environmental agenda under the Irish Presidency. It was also a chance to hear their ideas and expectations on progressing the international climate change process in the first six months of 2013. This engagement with approximately 14 countries will stand us in good stead as we progress the various legislative and policy dossiers through the Council and the Parliament.
The Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, who has responsibility for nature and biodiversity matters also has a number of dossiers which are dealt with by the Environment Council. A key Presidency priority for him relates to the Commission's proposal for a regulation on access and benefit sharing of genetic resources. This regulation has been introduced to allow the European Union and its member states to ratify the Nagoya Protocol and seeks to allow for regulation of access to traditional genetic resources, particularly in the developing world, and consider how any benefit from these resources should be shared with provider countries and indigenous local communities. The European Union and most member states have signed the protocol and the Environment Council has called for early ratification and appropriate implementation. Ireland will oversee discussions on the recently published regulation during the Presidency, although these discussions are not expected to be finalised until late 2013.
I also have responsibility for atomic and nuclear issues which are dealt with by the EU Energy Council. Ireland will be progressing a couple of important dossiers in this area during the Presidency, particularly the basic safety standards directive and new arrangements for the registration of carriers of radioactive materials.
This is an outline of the main items on next Monday’s Council agenda and our Presidency work programme. I apologise for taking some time, but, as members will appreciate, within weeks of our Presidency commencing there was always going to be a lot of ground to cover. As incoming chair of the Environment Council, I will also be outlining this programme to colleague Ministers at the end of Monday’s Council meeting. I can go into more detail, if members wish. I hope I have outlined how the four items the Chairman mentioned will be dealt with. As part of our Presidency, we will have an informal Environment Council meeting on 22 and 23 April in Dublin Castle. On the agenda will be issues relating to air quality and sustainability of the urban environment. There will be proposals form the Commission in March on the Single Market for carbon products which will be the subject of discussions. As part of our informal meeting we hope to consider our higher level ambitions for the European Union and start the debate on where we want to be in 2030 and 2050.
Before calling individual members, I remind them of the topics we are discussing. The first is Ireland’s forthcoming Presidency of the European Union and the agenda for next Monday’s meeting of the Environment Council. The first member to stray off these topics will be cut off by me. We will keep the discussion to these issues.
I will not be calling on the Chairman's refereeing capabilities.
I thank the Minister for coming forward with this programme in response to the joint committee's request. It is a thorough and engaging document which outlines the Minister's workload and intentions within it. I expect it will be an evolving programme over the course of the Presidency. I ask the Minister to keep the committee informed of issues as they arise. I know the Chairman will not let me stray into a discussion of the water framework directive, the overall European Commission budget, the environmental aspects of CAP reform as they relate to SACs and the REPS, and also commitments on Leader groups, development companies and funding vis-à-vis the new frameworks the Minister is putting in place under local authorities and so forth.
I thank the Minister for outlining the details of the programme. I will go through them thoroughly and seek further information, if necessary, in the coming weeks and months. I wish him well in his stewardship during Ireland's Presidency and have no doubt he will be well able to progress matters. The committee should be kept informed and abreast of developments during that process. In the meantime we will put pressure on the Minister and the Government on the issue of budget formation for the European Union. The reforms to be introduced within the budget and the envelopes that may evolve may be to the advantage of the environment portfolio.
I thank the Minister for his presentation, setting out his priorities during the Presidency and reporting back on the outcome of the Doha conference. He has said the European Union is still a leader and consensus builder in the international climate change process. We will assume the EU Presidency on 1 January and the Minister will head the Environment Council.
I recall that there was to be a roadmap in the climate change Bill. At this point we should have the heads of that Bill which we were meant to have received by the end of the year.
We have not yet reached the end of the year.
Is the Minister going to send me a Christmas card?
The Dáil is sitting next week.
Deputy Brian Stanley to continue, without interruption.
We are at the eleventh hour and it is very important that we receive the heads of the Bill, move quickly next year and lead by example.
In his report the Minister has outlined very well what is happening in Africa, central America, the Pacific region and other parts of the world. The threat will not be faced down the line, rather it is being faced now. One does not need to go to these countries to see the effects when for much of the summer one could see water lying in fields of corn on the dry plains of County Kildare. The fact that cornfields in the driest part of the country were under water tells us we have a problem with climate change.
On the issue of indirect land use change, will the Minister outline what he has in mind and what the Council is dealing with? I do not want to stray from the agenda, but this has been a huge issue all year and will be centre stage, not least because of the wet weather conditions. There is a school of thought that was subscribed to by the last Government and the European Union that we should spread slurry based on use of the calendar because that is the best way to protect groundwater and rivers. I questioned this view with the previous Minister who wrote back to tell me that it was based on European weather patterns. I wrote back to him to state Ireland did not experience central European weather patterns. We are living on the edge of the Atlantic and experience daily rain showers and storms. I ask the Minister to use the period of the Presidency to address this matter because it will become a crunch issue in terms of Food Harvest 2020. There will be more intensive livestock farming and higher densities and as such we must deal with this issue. I want to protect the agriculture sector, but we must also protect groundwater. We are in a different position because we have very different weather patterns than in countries in continental Europe, including Germany, France and Belgium. We can show them what weather conditions are like and that they are very different and unpredictable. We, therefore, need to have a different way of proceeding because it is ludicrous that farmers cannot spread slurry at certain times and when they do spread it at the times they are supposed to, it is followed by two or three wet days and the slurry is washed into rivers. As this defeats the purpose completely, I ask that we use the period of the Presidency to address thae issue which the Minister knows will be a major one in the next five to ten years in this State, particularly in the context of Food Harvest 2020.
I am pleased to tell the Deputy that the year is not yet over and that there will be a Government meeting next Tuesday at which one of the issues debated will be the heads of the climate change Bill. I am sure the Deputy has noticed that I have stuck rigidly to what I set out in the road map last January and delivered on everything I said I would do. I do not expect things to be any different next week. I am also taking a policy document to the Government on the national climate change adaptation strategy. That will also feature on the Government's agenda and we will see how that discussion proceeds. It is another aspect of the climate change agenda and I am sure people will be anxious to see what proposals emerge in terms of adopting a whole of government approach towards a framework for adaptation to climate change to help deal with the problems faced.
The concept of indirect land use change, ILUC, is aimed at starting the transition to biofuel use to deliver substantial greenhouse gas emission reductions. A reporting mechanism for emissions in respect of indirect land use is built into it. It is a technical proposal. Essentially, we are trying to move towards a second generation or advanced low ILUC biofuels strategy to allow these fuels to contribute more towards the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. This can be done in various ways such as through new installations, but we hope that whatever agreement is made, it can be brought into effect by 1 July 2014. We might not get it all over the line by the end of our Presidency, but we expect to have a progress report on this file that I hope will meet the general thrust of the ILUC proposal.
I am glad that the Deputy has very good and strong views on groundwater, but this was not always evident when we were talking about the Water Services (Amendment) Act 2012.
The Minister should not try to rewrite history. I have always held the same position. I am talking about the spreading of slurry.
I am not rewriting history, with which the Deputy had many problems. I know many of my colleagues in opposition did not like to be pigeonholed in terms of being against the protection of groundwater, but that is the position in which the Deputy put himself by way of the less than constructive approach adopted towards a very serious matter when we were before the European Court of Justice. We might still have fines imposed on us on a daily or lump sum basis because of the inactivity of my predecessors which people chose to ignore. Groundwater protection and the blueprint for water quality in the context of the water framework directive will be the subject of Environment Council conclusions next Monday and the Deputy can take it that I will be supporting them wholeheartedly.
On the nitrates directive, I wholeheartedly agree with the Deputy that calendar based farming is the way prescribed by the farming organisations. We have seen major changes, including monsoon-like rainfall. I have gone out of my way to help people to cope with the very heavy rainfall this year, subject to proper environmental standards being met, by providing for an extension of time for the spreading of slurry and making sure safeguards are put in place to maintain good environmental practice in so far as it is possible to do so. The nitrates directive will be up for review in 2013. The work does not necessarily have to start on it during our Presidency, but I expect that it will and that stakeholders will be involved in the review which will probably start next April.
In terms of the Technical Group, does Deputy 'Ming' Flanagan or Deputy Catherine Murphy wish to speak first?
Can only one of us speak?
It is welcome to hear that we are likely to see the heads of the climate change Bill before Christmas. There would have been a difficulty with our credibility if we had not kept to the timeline.
What happened in Doha cannot be separated from the work that will be done during the Irish Presidency. The Minister said he had bilateral talks with many European environment Ministers. Will there be a common approach to the Rio+20 conference in June? Will a united approach be taken towards countries such as the United States, China and India? Clearly, it was not possible to move the agenda forward significantly in Doha. Did the Minister view this as a source of disappointment because I expected more progress to be made? Will he tell us how progress will be made between the European Union and the other countries involved and how we can use our Presidency to this end?
This has been creeping along at a snail's pace. Europe is one of the parts of the world which is taking it more seriously. We have only one planet and must use what influence we have to get buy-in from countries which are not moving as fast as they should.
The question arises of the approach to local government in the overall domestic agenda. Significant changes are due in the context of the Presidency. A number of extra staff are being brought in to deal with the Presidency. Is the team fully in place? Is there likely to be interference in the work of the Department during the period or will it be possible to do the two in tandem?
We will have a paper from the Commission on Rio+20 in March with a view to the Irish Presidency's bringing about Council conclusions in June. We will be fully engaged with the other member states to achieve that outcome. On Doha, the expectation before the conference was that it would be more of a holding operation with little progress arising from the discussions in Durban. Durban set out a strategy for the following three years. The danger was that Doha would not advance matters, but we have succeeded arising from that conference in putting a work programme in place across the streams agreed there. We have set a target of 2015 for a globally binding legal agreement. There is an indication that there will be a Heads of Government meeting in 2014 to give the talks the required impetus. These developments have been important to maintain the momentum towards a global agreement.
Interestingly, we had some six EU co-ordination meetings during the course of the week and were able to establish a unified position on some very difficult issues, particularly on AEUs and surplus carbon tax credits. Poland and certain other former eastern bloc member states had a great difficulty on surrendering or cancelling to balance the market and reduce emissions. Many member states which are progressive on climate change policy wanted to see the cancellation of AEUs post-2020, but for five years it was not possible to get agreement from Poland. Agreement was achieved in the EU meetings which were held in Doha. There is now a unified EU position which gives us a great deal more credibility on climate change policy. The EU contributes only 11% of emissions. There are countries which classify themselves as "developing", including China and Brazil, which are major contributors to emissions and which are not making the contribution we would expect at this stage. The European Union, with Australia, Norway and Switzerland, are the leaders who are advancing a programme on climate change and the reduction of emissions. We are trying, albeit it is happening far too slowly, to get the USA, Russia, China and other large states on board to make the emissions reductions required to make a significant impact on quality of life and the development agenda and to mitigate the problems associated with climate change. We are seeking also to bring forward adaptation policies and that will cost money.
We agreed also at Doha on a fund. The fast-start finance scheme agreed in Copenhagen set out €7.2 billion which would be provided by the European Union to meet the needs of the least-developed and poorest countries and to assist them to adapt to climate change. A board of directors is to be established to distribute the money. We have met our commitments solemnly and have credibility with the small island states and least developed countries. We have achieved in 2012 what we said we would in Copenhagen in 2009, notwithstanding the financial difficulties many European countries have been experiencing.
I assure the joint committee that we will continue to be energetic in pursuing the domestic agenda on waste, water and local government reform. We have a very ambitious agenda of reform in the Department and we have the resources and staff to meet our commitments, in particular on local government in advance of the local elections in 2014.
I thank the Minister and his officials for attending to meet us. I wish them every success in the Presidency. I thank them for the information they are giving us. I have no doubt the Minister will prove he has had nothing to worry about when he is in the hot seat. I have no doubt he will prove to be very effective. I want to emphasise the importance of the flow of information back to the joint committee. As I understand the Minister and his officials will be very busy, I would like to know what plans are in place to inform the joint committee and to make us aware of the issues arising during the campaign.
I wish also to support Deputy Brian Stanley on agricultural issues, which are very important. Inevitably, we will reach a point where we must confront how we will balance the effects of climate change and the directives thereon and the need to feed the world's growing population. I am thinking particularly of Food Harvest 2020 and beyond to 2050 and the need to avoid penalising the Irish agricultural community, 96% of the production of which is exported. Irish farmers produce very high quality food which is recognised across the world. We must be aware of the need to break even in that context. There is a debate among scientists, some of whom say that global warming is determined by cycles and that over various periods of time, it changes. While I acknowledge the need to take action to preserve the climate, one must consider the Amazon where large tracts of forestry are being removed and corporate conglomerates such as Shell and BP are engaged in destructive practices which further their finances. That is having an effect on climate. We must also compare what the heavily industrialised nations are doing with the directives being enforced in Ireland. There is little we can do, but we suffer significantly by way of efforts to improve climate conditions. We must bear that in mind as an island nation.
The Minister mentioned the €7.2 billion fund for small-island nations. How much will we benefit from that? Will we benefit at all?
We are giving towards it?
The European Union is providing that much money for other countries.
I thought the Minister was going to have €3 million a day to give out.
There is no slush fund for Tipperary.
Does the Minister intend during the Presidency to hold meetings in locations in Ireland outside of Dublin and the major cities?
I would ask the Minister not to forget the rest of the country. There is more to Ireland than just the Pale.
Perhaps the Deputy can provide the necessary resources. He can see that I get into a lot of trouble and criticised on the costs of attending to do my work as Minister outside the jurisdiction. We have taken a deliberate decision in the Department to keep costs as low as possible given the current financial situation.
It would be much cheaper to stage meetings down the country.
It is much cheaper to stage them in Dublin Castle where the interpreting and other facilities required are in place. Those would have to be moved to Tipperary or Kilkenny for that matter.
In reply to Deputy Noel Coonan, we are very conscious of the debate on the interaction between food security and the climate change agenda generally. There can be a conflict between the production of more food under Food Harvest 2020 and the impact of that on greenhouse gas emissions in agriculture.
If we are not able to produce it here, Europe will have to find the food from Argentina and Brazil and other countries, which will have a bigger impact on the global emissions targets that we hope to have made legally binding by 2015. We can assure the committee that we are very conscious of that debate and will be playing our part to ensure that economic and environmental interests are inter-related and interlinked. We have to be able to consider these issues in the global context and not just as one island nation that has many advantages for meeting food requirements for mainland Europe.
Science is showing very significantly that if we do not take action quickly in the next couple of years, in the European Union or worldwide, that there will be a considerable increase in temperatures which will have a serious impact on many of the least developed countries. Ireland cannot be excluded from that. Cities such as Cork and Dublin will daily experience changes and we must plan for the works to adapt to those changes. If the sea level rises it will have an impact on many of the communities in our island nation. We must plan on behalf of those communities. A low carbon economy is a competitive one and that is a good way to go from an Irish point of view. As part of our Presidency we are emphasising the opportunities that will arise from rolling out a green economy, exploiting the potential of the resources we have, whether in waste or water. We have tremendous natural advantages from which we can create employment opportunities for many companies. There is considerable interest now in sustainable means of food production and processing to capture the markets in China and beyond.
These countries are becoming more and more conscious that if they want to deal with issues of social and political unrest they must also deal with environmental issues. There is massive investment in China in bringing water from the south to the north to allay the concerns of 650 million Chinese people. This major investment has a political dimension as well as an environmental one. Politics, the economy and the environment are increasingly interlinked in the climate change agenda. Ireland has a very proud record, through the overseas development aid distributed by the Department of Foreign Affairs, of linking with these issues, particularly in Africa and in the Far East. The member states of conferences such as Doha display a great sense of the rich resource that we have made available through the contacts established by missionaries and the work of many of our NGOs as part of our overseas development aid package. Hopefully that will continue through the green climate fund. Irish people are seen as leaders in that area and as having a respect for the difficulties of people in less developed areas. This climate change agenda is significant and should be seen as positive because it offers many job creation opportunities not just for the Irish abroad but domestically. We should exploit these and the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, recently published a document on the green economy which points the way for many initiatives that could be taken to create jobs for people through this resource efficiency green economy agenda. This will be part of what we will say at our informal council meeting in Dublin Castle next April when we will highlight those opportunities not just for Ireland but for the European Union.
Deputy Kevin Humphreys is the last spokesperson and we will then move to questions.
I thank the Minister for the work he did in Doha. It did not get the coverage it deserved. I believe, however, that it is a weak deal and that does not reflect on the Minister. We are heading for a warmer world and the reports of PwC, the World Bank and the UN demonstrate that there is a lack of willingness to translate the discussions and talks out there into action. It is noticeable that there is a coalition and I note that the Minister played a role in the coalition of the willing, as it is being called. Ireland needs to play a leading role in that coalition.
The Minister used words such as "milestone" and "landmark" and said that other countries are moving far too slowly and that they need to move more quickly. Since the first day I came in here I have been looking for the heads of the Bill and it is not acceptable that we see the heads of the Bill for the next Cabinet meeting at the last minute of the last hour on the last day. If we want to have a leadership role Ireland must move much more quickly to produce the heads of the Bill. When we start to lay out our roadmap from the heads of the Bill for next year I want to see us hitting the targets far in advance.
Did the Deputy see the targets we set out last January?
What do they say about the heads of the Bill?
It says that they would be available by the end of the year.
It is being dealt with at the last Cabinet meeting, the last minute of the last hour.
The Deputy should read what it says.
The Deputy should move along.
The Minister is interrupting me.
The Deputy should move along.
I do not agree with the Deputy.
It is not acceptable. When we discussed the roadmap, the Minister said he hoped to hit the targets much earlier. The Minister should read the report of the meetings.
In fact we are hitting them at the last minute.
I am prepared to read them myself and apologise if I am wrong.
The Deputy should look at it himself.
I am disappointed that we are only reaching it now. I am disappointed in the group that did not get involved at Doha. I was surprised to see the disappointing rules of Canada and New Zealand, countries which I thought were role models for dealing with climate change. I thought they would be more progressive. We need to encourage them along the line.
When we start laying out the roadmap for this committee next year we need to move as quickly as possible on this and not be hitting the targets towards the end of the year but at the beginning.
I thought that the Deputy would give us credit for hitting every part of the roadmap that I outlined last January but I am not going to get into nitpicking about whether we hit it a week or two earlier or later. I have hit what I set out last January. The Deputy can tell the NGOs that too. I have hit every target on that roadmap. I am the first Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to do that. We will not have an abstract discussion about these matters because we have EU legislation with which we must comply. That is legally binding. I stand over exactly what was set out on the roadmap and I have hit every milestone on it.
If some of the NGOs had been present at Doha, which they were not on this occasion, they would have noticed that the outcome there was almost a shambles but it was not because of the EU leadership. I was present at many of the meetings with the Cypriots as part of the Presidency team where we could see that we could have wound up in a difficult situation and gone backwards from the Durban platform that was agreed in 2011. One has to view this in the round. We did not go backwards. We now have a work plan under the Durban platform and a second commitment period from 2013 to 2020 agreed under Kyoto which was not easy to achieve within the EU, particularly in respect of the difficulties facing the Polish Government and other member states in eastern Europe. We brought them to a unified position which took compromise all round. Far from some of the disappointment that Deputy Kevin Humphreys expressed, it would have been far more disappointing if I was reporting failure at Doha.
We have a roadmap, if I may use that word again, from now to 2015 that will hopefully convince the Canadians, the New Zealanders, the Chinese and the Russians to come on board, and the United States to show some leadership for once and for all, given that it produces 85% of all emissions. We hope that the US will say that it is taking climate change seriously and understand the impact that it will have on the planet and the people living on it because our resources are finite.
I hope we will be able to reach agreement by 2015. I will come back to the committee on a regular basis to brief it on how we are getting on with regard to domestic and international policies. We will include all members of the committee in the communications on the meetings we will have. Everyone will be kep fully up to date.
I welcome the Minister and thank him for what is a very strong document on the environment and the issue of climate change. My first question was going to be on the climate change Bill, but he has stated it will be up for discussion on Tuesday. I was delighted to hear him state climate change was not an academic concept or a scientific process but an urgent reality for billions of people. I thank him for stating this, as it indicates the issue is a top priority, as it should be.
I have a question on the recast of the environmental impact assessment. This issue will be discussed at the next meeting of the Council of Ministers. Is it possible to put it on the agenda for discussion at another meeting of the committee?
Officials will brief the committee on it next Tuesday.
It is an important issue for Ireland. Does the priority substance in water issue include fluoridation of water, an issue the committee has discussed? I welcome the blueprint to safeguard EU water supplies.
Will the Senator please ask the Minister a question?
I asked about the fluoridation of water.
F-gases were mentioned, the only man-made gases over which we have control and which can only be destroyed by sunlight. When the strategy is being set for various countries, will this be taken into consideration? This issue will also be discussed at next Tuesday's meeting. Will it be possible for us to discuss it at some stage?
Councillor Kevin Humphreys mentioned-----
It is Deputy Humphreys agus cuir ceist le do thoil.
I apologise to Deputy Kevin Humphreys.
The Minister is waiting to answer the Senator's question.
I do not want an answer on the issue of F-gases today because it will be discussed next Tuesday. However, the committee must be briefed on it.
The EUFORES conference on climate change and energy efficiency will be organised by the Minister, Deputy Pat Rabbitte. There will also be The Gathering programme and the Minister will receive an invitation as a speaker. It has been recognised by the Taoiseach as an associate conference of the European Union. I extend an invitation to the Minister from us today.
Two new proposals are being made with regard to CO2 emissions from cars, but I do not know what they are.
The proposals with regard to CO2 emissions from cars and vans are to set new standards, given the technological developments being made in the manufacture of cars and vans. Obviously, they will be lowered. Countries with car manufacturing industries will have a view on this issue. However, we can be ambitious because we do not manufacture cars, but Germany, Italy and Spain, in particular, have strong views on the issue. We expect to reach a conclusion on it during the course of our Presidency. We have met the rapporteurs from the European Parliament who are dealing with these legislative files and we expect to have a first reading by June.
Fluoridation of water is a matter for the Minister of Health, not the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government.
I asked about it because of the priority substances in water issue.
That is a different issue. A significant number of substances and pharmaceutical products are on a priority list which cannot be added to water. We are reviewing the legislation to see what additional products we can add to either a watch list or the priority list. The priority list is much more serious and if certain products are on it, end of pipe solutions to ensure water is purified and clean to the extent that these products do not end up in it will cost a great deal of money in terms of upgrading water and wastewater treatment works. The UK Government has stated that if the current proposal were to be implemented, it would cost £20 billion over 20 years. That is a lot of money. This shows the legislation going through the European Parliament arising from proposals tabled can have a major impact when implemented. We must watch these issues very carefully. We want good quality water and to ensure we do not have harmful substances in water, but at the same time we want to do this in such a way that countries will have a lead-in time to adapt to the changes without a very onerous difficult financial burden being created in the short term. We are moving the proposal along and expect to get agreement between now and the end of June.
I thank the Minister for his presentation. I did not hear all of it, but I have read through it.
The issue of spreading slurry and farming based on the calendar was raised, as were the issues of water quality and producing our own fuel in a sustainable way. What talks does the Minister envisage he will have with his European partners on a technology to deal with these three issues together, that is, anaerobic digestion? One of the major problems with spreading slurry is its density. When it rains, it washes into watercourses, including rivers and groundwater. After processing this slurry through the use of anaerobic digestion, one ends up with a product that one could spread on the land without fear of it being washed into the watercourses. It is the equivalent of fixed nitrogen in artificial fertiliser. One also has the fantastic benefit of producing biogas. Years ago I visited Callan on the Kilkenny and Tipperary border, with which the Minister is probably familiar.
I know it. I was involved in the project.
Will the Deputy please ask the Minister a question?
I am framing it. What does the Minister think can be done to advance this fantastic technology? However, I fear that when anyone tries to develop it in an area, the first thing he or she will think is that it must be developed somewhere no one will object and that person will be savaged by everyone else because it has been used in an area in which its use is not viable.
The Deputy is not bad at that himself.
If someone wants to build in my town or beside my house, I will support it.
The Deputy has mentioned a very important matter. I am a very strong supporter of anaerobic digestion systems which I included in my waste policy last July as a treatment for waste under the waste framework directive. Developing the project requires scale and, therefore, the promotion of a co-operative system or a community-led solution whereby farmers come together for that purpose, as they did in Camphill, Ballytobin in Callan 20 years ago.
Farmers came together on a co-operative basis and extracted methane.
There are a few hotels also.
I agree with the Deputy on the need to promote its use. It is part of our policy and I promote it as best I can. While I cannot micro-manage communities to get them to come together, they will certainly receive strong support from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government where they want to establish such co-operatives.
Will the Minister comment on the fact that it seems to be developed down a country lane to avoid too many objections being raised? This technology is getting a bad name, which is a shame.
There is a lot of misinformation, but the extraction of gases through anaerobic digestion from landfill sites or slurry has great scope and we will promote its use as best we can to allay fears about the process.
I thank the Minister for his excellent presentation. Living on an island we are inclined to be insular in our thinking.
Only when one returns from a conference on how global climate change will affect us locally does one sit up and take notice. This is the challenge we must face. I welcome the Minister's news about bringing the heads of the Bill to the Cabinet next week.
As some of my questions have been asked, I will not rehearse them. I am interested in the LIFE proposal. Will the Minister be able to make progress on it during Ireland's EU Presidency? The Irish projects funded to date have been successful, but finances seemed to cause a problem.
We will take three lots of questions together. Deputies Michelle Mulherin and Paudie Coffey are next.
The Minister rightly voiced the proposition that a low-carbon economy could be an attractive business model. Given our renewable energy potential, such a model would suit us, in that we would be developing another resource. However, the world, in particular developed countries, has fallen down on the issue of transport energy. Great progress has been made in generating electricity from renewables, etc. and I presume the Minister's proposals on CO2 are aimed at reducing emissions. Batteries are great but expensive and do not generate the output desired. For many, they are not feasible for the Irish pattern of day-to-day usage. What alternatives to petrol and diesel at the pumps have been considered, for example, liquefied natural gas, LNG? Modifying-----
It is a question on the extent of the consideration given to the issue. I understand not much modification would be required for a car. A different modification could allow for the use of methanol or ethanol in a vehicle and the cost would be approximately €100 per vehicle. Unless one tackles the fact that people's only real option on the forecourt is the use of oil, we will never address the issues of cost, dependency, transport energy and carbon emissions. Could my suggestion be considered?
That is down to conversion technology and cost.
Another issue is capping landfills to capture methane gas. This option has been explored and developed by some local authorities but not by others. It seems to be an obvious step. The technology is available and has been used successfully in Canada. All local authorities with landfill sites should exploit them as an alternative energy source.
What are the Minister's opinions on fracking? How will emissions trading work domestically?
The climate change challenge of reducing carbon emissions to the target figure is significant and I welcome the Minister's practical approach of involving stakeholders. Involving them is important.
I wish to ask about one technology. It is important that we note the advancements being made in the economy. For example, the SSE utility company is investing €330 million at the power generation plant at Great Island in the south east, an area the Minister shares with me. SSE is converting the plant from oil to clean gas and will almost double its capacity to 460 MW by 2016. This work will have a significant impact on the decarbonisation of electricity generation. We should acknowledge this investment by a private stakeholder.
The Minister is aware of the Belview industrial zone in the south east. We need to consider the energy opportunities it offers. Glanbia will develop a new plant at Belview and there is significant potential for further development. Are there incentives to extend gas lines into such industrial zones? As the latter need to operate at efficient levels, we must plan for the future. Is it possible to incentivise the extension of gas lines?
The Minister might respond to members' questions, le do thoil, particularly from the point of view of the Council of Ministers meeting and the EU Presidency.
Deputy Marcella Corcoran Kennedy asked about the LIFE programme which is tied with issues concerning the EU budget. I had expected to be able to assure the committee that the programme would be progressed during our Presidency, but I cannot do so, as the budget has not been agreed. I hope it will be agreed to in February. This important programme is a sizable issue for many member states, although there are not many LIFE projects in Ireland currently. Perhaps the next programme will offer us better prospects. There is a successful project in the Burren in County Clare. There is a great deal of potential for the programme in the Deputy's constituency, particularly where boglands are no longer in operation for turf cutting on a commercial basis. The biodiversity agenda could be exploited in the midlands more than has been the case to date.
Deputy Michelle Mulherin asked many questions on various matters. As part of our climate change emissions agenda, we are trying to move transport, particularly haulage companies, to using gas, but it will take time. As part of our sectoral plans with Departments, including the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, we expect them to propose on a regular basis initiatives on incentivising the use of gas and low emission fuels in the eyes of our heavy haulage network. We are using financial instruments in this regard. Through motor taxation, for example, we err on the side of helping people to buy cars that are more carbon and technologically efficient. We are also promoting the use of electric cars, in that zero tax will be applied to them.
In the context of the heads of the climate change Bill which I hope will be approved by the Government next week, part of our carbon strategy will put the onus on the Ministers for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Transport, Tourism and Sport, Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and so on to table proposals on promoting the use of technology and financial instruments, including those outlined by Deputy Michelle Mulherin, to reduce emissions and meet our national targets.
Fracking is a matter for the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. I would not like to trespass into that area at this time, as the Deputy can understand.
To respond to Deputy Paudie Coffey's questions, I am aware of the project that will bring gas through Bord Gáis to Great Island in County Wexford. An excellent initiative, areas in the south east will now have access to clean fuel, giving them a major competitive advantage. I understand the distance from the pipe network at Great Island to Waterford Port at Belview is only 2 km. It presents an opportunity for Bord Gáis to engage with stakeholders such as Glanbia in a more proactive way than might have been the case to date to ensure clean fuel is available in the context of national policy on reducing emissions and providing the gas and other infrastructure required to expand a facility that, unfortunately, has been lying dormant for too long. We will make representations to Bord Gáis to determine what can be done to prioritise the project in extending the gas network into Waterford Port.
I thank the Minister for his attendance. My question is on the Presidency during the next six months and the conference the Minister attended last weekend in Doha. In terms of emissions, the Minister has mentioned that he achieved some success with the Polish delegates. However, the major players are the United States, China, Russia and so on. How can we succeed in that regard? Progress is being made in Europe and other areas, but the countries causing the most problems are the United States, China and Russia. It does not appear that real progress is being achieved in bringing them into line with other countries.
Deputy McLoughlin has posed a good question. Little account has been taken of the significant achievement made in Durban in 2011, at which conference everybody agreed to signing up to a legally binding global agreement by 2015, including, as mentioned by the Deputy, the United States, Russia and China. The fact that they are still on board following the Doha conference and that there is a work programme setting out how the targets set will be achieved over the next two or three years is significant. There were a number of conferences in Bonn in May, at which the process of how the particular milestones, on which the European Union is leading, were to be achieved.
There will probably be a Heads of State and Governments meeting in September 2014, as proposed at the Doha conference by Secretary General of the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon. It is hoped that the setting of a date for that conference will concentrate the minds of all member states in terms of the ambitious proposals they will put forward with a view to getting an agreement by end 2015. We are conscious of the need to get all countries on board. It is hoped the programme of work put in place at Doha will accelerate and concentrate the minds of people in the countries mentioned. Members will be aware of the huge shift in the public mood in the United States following hurricane Sandy, particularly on the east coast. There is now a realisation that climate change is no longer an aspiration but necessary. The President of the United States will, I am sure, take cognisance of this in his second term of office.
I believe more could have been done in Doha. However, I accept that the Minister fought a good fight then and that as much as could have been done in the circumstances was done. I believe publication of the heads of the Bill as set out in the roadmap will be achieved next Tuesday, although we would all have welcomed if this had been done earlier in the year. We will begin the process of discussion on that Bill early in the new year. I appreciate the attendance at this committee of the Minister and his Ministers of State on three or four occasions in recent weeks.
I thank the Chairman for his remarks. By the end of next week, we will have achieved all of the targets outlined to the committee last January, which does not often happen. This does not happen by accident but by way of a great deal of hard work by the Government and its officials. I take this opportunity to thank my officials who have worked exceptionally hard in the past year on a body of work on climate change and the sustainable development agenda not previously undertaken in the history of this State. There is often no recognition of the long hours worked by many people. In Doha, I witnessed the long hours, often up to 18 hours a day, many people worked. During the last 24 hours of the conference many people did not sleep at all in an effort to get the agreement over the line. Had it all gone wrong in Doha, I would be giving the bad news to this committee today and people would be disappointed and pessimistic about future outcomes. These issues are not resolved without a great deal of painstaking work by officials from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and other Departments. We should be proud of them in terms of the work they do and the long hours they put in to achieve many of the international agreements we often take for granted.
Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil leis an Aire agus a oifigigh, Mr. John McCarthy and Mr. Pat Macken, as cabhrú leis an bplé a bhí againn inniu. We appreciate that.
The joint committee adjourned at 4.15 p.m. until 2 p.m. on 18 December 2012.
