JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN AFFAIRS debate -
Wednesday, 15 Dec 2004

Turkish Membership of EU: Presentation.

Chairman

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, for coming in today as I know it is an inconvenience for him. It has been a busy week for all of us. Our work has been affected, particularly by the Fianna Fáil secretary's lunch. There are some people who have important matters to attend to and that is fair enough. The members, some of whom are not present, requested that the Minister of State be present for this meeting before 17 December so that we could present this report to him. Before getting down to the nitty-gritty I thank Ms Katherine Meehan, Mr. Dermot O'Mahony and Ms Siobhán Malone for their work on this report. Katherine and Dermot spent most time putting the report together. I thank also Mr. Brian Earls, the chargé d'affaires in Ankara, who is not present, who helped us a great deal on our trip and who contributed to the report in recent weeks. I thank also the members who travelled to Turkey as well as the members who contributed to the report in recent months.

A copy of the final report was agreed by the committee earlier today. The joint committee believes that a decision should be taken on 17 December to open negotiations with Turkey on accession to the EU. From my standpoint, we were going into unknown territory when we travelled to Turkey and there were some serious doubts in our minds. Our scepticism was softened a great deal throughout our trip. The report was unanimously agreed this morning and people feel strongly that these negotiations should continue. We are looking at a period of ten to 15 years but we were struck by a number of aspects, including the optimism of the Turkish people and their ambition regarding the reforms they had put in place over recent years. The minority groups — women's groups and religious groups — were of the opinion that the only way forward for them was for negotiations to continue within the European Union framework. We felt also that Turkey must recognise Cyprus, a member state of the Union Turkey wishes to join. The members felt strongly about that issue also. We hope this report will provide a useful contribution to the debate. I will open up the debate to the members. I will call Deputy Allen and then ask the Minister to make his comments. I do not wish to keep members longer than necessary.

Deputy Allen

I will not delay the meeting either because there is a great deal of business to be dealt with. As one of the Fine Gael members on the trip, I would like to compliment the chargé d'affaires, Mr. Brian Earls, Mr. Dermot O'Mahony, who was with our committee, and all the people involved in organising the trip in conjunction with the Turkish authorities. I would like those remarks to be conveyed to the Department of Foreign Affairs. This was one of the most detailed and well-prepared trips I have ever been on with any committee. The chargé d'affaires in Ankara contributed in no small way to that in co-operation with our own secretariat.

Like the Chairman, I have my own view of Turkey's bid to become a member of the European Union but we got full co-operation from the Government, the political parties and the people who suffered in the past because of human rights limitations. My abiding memory, however, is that all the groups we met were anxious that the accession talks should commence and succeed. They are aware that the Turkish Government has done its utmost in a short time to open up the system and they believe the prospect of membership will create space for everybody in a democratic way within the country. It is in everybody's interests that talks commence on 17 December.

A shadow on the horizon is the ongoing problem with Cyprus. I do not intend to preach to anybody but the Turks supported the Annan proposals. However, it will be an ongoing issue if the problem with Cyprus continues. It is a festering sore that could hinder proceedings. All we can do is urge both Governments to try to come to some agreement in the not too distant future.

The findings of the report are in line with our experiences. I pay tribute to the people behind the scenes who, in a very short period, prepared the report, which accurately reflects what we saw and heard during our visit.

Chairman

We would also like to thank the Turkish Ambassador for facilitating us and the Turkish officials in Ankara and Istanbul who were incredibly helpful to us throughout this process.

Senator Dardis

I join with the Chairman in thanking everybody involved, particularly Katherine Meehan, for preparing the report. It is a distillation of an enormous amount of information that we gathered while we were in Turkey. As someone who has been on several of these trips, I agree with what the Chairman said about the Embassy, especially Mr. Brian Earls, the chargé d'affaires. The programme, in terms of its scope, was unique in that we heard almost all shades of opinion from every part of society apart from Government. We met the minister for foreign affairs and the various committees in the Parliament.

Chairman

Dressed unusually, but we met him.

Senator Dardis

Yes. We will not talk about the luggage. Unfortunately, two of us were casually dressed and we had to apologise to the Government representatives we met. I also thank the secretariat for the work it did because it must have been an enormous task to distil into a report what we heard and saw. We all agreed unanimously with the findings of the report. I do not wish to go into it in detail but the matter of Cyprus is critical. It is incredible that a country could wish to become a member of the Union without recognising another member state in the Union. That issue will have to be resolved and I hope it will be in future.

The report states that opening negotiations is just a stepping stone on a journey which has an uncertain destination. I agree with that. It would be wrong to think this can happen overnight, and I do not believe the Turks think that either. I agree with the proposition that there was a broad consensus across a range of opinion in Turkey as to the desirability of opening the talks.

The question of the Copenhagen criteria and the economic criteria will be problematic and will require attention but we accept, as Deputy Allen said, that enormous progress has been made, both in legislative and general terms, and the hope is that those initiatives can be transferred down the line. We might have had some reservations about the law not being applied down the line and that is something that must be attended to.

Difficulties will arise, both in agriculture and elsewhere, and perhaps the large measure of support for joining the Union may diminish somewhat as the reality of membership begins to dawn, but there are huge benefits, both for Turkey and the Union, in terms of its prospective membership. It is something I supported before I went on the trip and I am now confirmed in that support.

The outstanding Cyprus issue will have to be resolved. Human rights issues, the minority churches and the question of women in society will have to be addressed. I welcome the report which we all support.

Senator Ormonde

I too compliment Ms Katherine Meehan on this fine report. It is detailed and difficult to digest but reflects our visit to Turkey which was one of our most constructive in a long time. It was very worthwhile and gave me an idea of the current situation and what may happen in future. Reform is taking place, but will those reforms be implemented quickly?

I felt strongly about the issues surrounding minority groups and the area of human rights. The situation might be fine in the larger cities such as Istanbul or Ankara, which are more in the European mode of thinking, but what is the position in the rural parts of Turkey? That is the issue. I agree we should give status to the candidature of Turkey for membership of the EU. However, I empathise with the situation of Cyprus. There must be dialogue between the two countries. It is possible for Turkey to return to that. It has already strongly put forward its case.

It is a major issue. Cyprus is now a member of the EU so, in light of that, Turkey will have to revisit the matter. Cyprus must revisit it too. There is wrong on both sides and the only way to overcome the problem is through conducting a dialogue. It is not impossible to reach a consensus view. Otherwise, the issue is snarling in the background and it is not welcome for either Cyprus or Turkey to be in this situation.

I also have concerns about Turkey bordering other countries such as Iraq and the impact of that for the future. The issue of fundamentalism and the implications of that for the EU have been on my mind. However, we should open the door to Turkey. I welcome this report. It was a golden opportunity and I appreciated meeting the people we met out there. They facilitated us in every way and gave us all the information we required. They conveyed how genuine and committed Turkey is to becoming a candidate country and acquiring candidate status.

I am pleased with this report. It clearly reflects our views when we visited these places. I recommend that we proceed with the process.

Senator Lydon

I, too, welcome the report. It is clear that Turkey would be welcomed but it has much work to do to participate fully in membership. The conclusion of the report, which recommends a three-pillar approach, is good. If Turkey wishes to join, it will have to ensure that many of the negative aspects of the report are taken into account and dealt with as soon as possible. It will be a major step forward for the European Union and a huge challenge. However, we should not fear challenge. I get the impression from other countries that its accession will not be as easily accepted as it might be by Ireland. Some of the major countries in Europe will be afraid of admitting such a large country at this stage. That is one of the reasons that Turkey's membership might be put back more than might be necessary. However, I hope that does not happen.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Deputy Treacy)

I am grateful for this opportunity to meet again with the committee to discuss the European Council decision on accession negotiations with Turkey. We met last week in preparation for the meeting of the General Affairs and External Relations Council, which I attended with the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, in Brussels last Monday. At the Council, Ministers continued the preparatory work for the European Council decision. Major issues remain under consideration and discussions are continuing between the member states on the central elements of the decision to be taken on 17 December.

I again congratulate the committee on taking the initiative of visiting Turkey in November. I pay special tribute to the chairman, Deputies Allen and Andrews and Senators Ormonde, McDowell and Dardis. They undertook an impressive series of meetings with government and political representatives, non-governmental organisations, or NGOs, representatives of minority communities, Christian churches, businessmen, journalists and academics. I warmly welcome the report and I echo the gratitude expressed to Ms Katherine Meenan and her colleagues for it.

The decision to be taken by the European Council this week is crucial for the future of the European Union and for Turkey. It is essential that there be an informed public debate throughout the Union and among the public in Turkey on the full implications of the decision. In recent months, there has been an intense debate on the issue throughout the European Union. Perhaps this public debate should have started earlier, but it is important that it continue in a rational and informed manner throughout the negotiating period which may lie ahead.

In participating in the European Council decision, which must be taken by unanimity, the Taoiseach's position is strengthened by having the considered input of this committee. This comprehensive report, which sets out in impressive detail the views of the democratically elected representatives of the people of Ireland, will make a major contribution to the Government's final preparations for Ireland's participation in the European Council decision on Turkey.

As the report states, there has been a series of developments since the early 1960s which has brought us to this point in relations between the European Union and Turkey. Successive European Councils since December 1999 have confirmed that Turkey is a candidate for membership on the basis of the same criteria applied to all candidate states. The European Union has also given a clear commitment that if this week's European Council decides that Turkey fulfils the Copenhagen political criteria, accession negotiations will be opened.

The Government welcomed the report and recommendation presented by the European Commission on 16 October last. They provide the basis for the European Council decision. The Commission has concluded that Turkey sufficiently fulfils the political criteria to enable the opening of accession negotiations. As I stated to the committee last week, if the conditions are in place, there is a good likelihood that agreement will be reached to open negotiations in the second half of 2005.

Debate continues as to the precise nature of these negotiations. The Government believes that the European Union should adhere to its commitment to open accession negotiations, that is, negotiations with the objective of full membership. If Turkey meets the requirements for membership, the negotiations will be lengthy, perhaps lasting up to ten, even 15, years. They will be complex and, as with any negotiating process, the outcome cannot be guaranteed in advance. It never could be. They will have wide-ranging implications for the Union and for Turkey and agreement will be necessary in advance of the negotiations on a detailed negotiating framework.

The European Commission, which will propose the framework for consideration by member states, has made it clear in its recommendations that the accession negotiations will take place in the framework of an Intergovernmental Conference, where decisions require unanimity, with the full participation of all member states of the European Union. It is also proposed that in developing the negotiating framework for negotiations with Turkey, consideration may have to be given to difficult issues such as long transition periods, specific arrangements in areas such as structural policies and agriculture and, perhaps, even permanent safeguards on the free movement of workers.

As members of the committee will have seen on their visit to Turkey and as they will have heard from representatives of human rights organisations and others, significant progress has been made over the past three years in legislating for wide-ranging human rights and administrative reforms in Turkey. The Government of Prime Minister Erdogan is transforming the country in the interests of the Turkish people. Full implementation of reforms, however, remains the key to progress. The pace of reform will determine the pace of any accession negotiations.

I expect the European Council to decide that detailed monitoring of the reform process must continue to ensure the irreversibility of the process. Particular attention must be given to the consolidation and development of the zero policy on torture and ill treatment and of reforms guaranteeing freedom of expression, freedom of religion, women's rights, trade union rights and the rights of minorities, including the Kurdish population.

I wish to refer to Cyprus. The European Union has expressed its appreciation for the support which Turkey gave to the plan for a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem, submitted by the UN Secretary General, Mr. Kofi Annan, earlier this year following negotiations during Ireland's Presidency of the European Union. The search for a comprehensive settlement will remain a UN-led process. In the absence of an agreed comprehensive settlement, Turkey maintains its policy of not recognising the Republic of Cyprus.

However, it hopes to enter negotiations on full membership of the EU, of which Cyprus is a full member. The Government and the committee believe that Turkey should begin a process to normalise relations with Cyprus. We have stressed this consistently. Turkey would make a vital contribution to the decision taken by the European Council later this week if it responded to the request of the June European Council and announced its decision to sign the protocol adopting the Ankara agreement on the customs union to take account of the Union's enlargement on 1 May last. We strongly encourage the Turkish Government to do so.

I hope the conditions will be in place for a positive decision by the European Council this week in the interests of the citizens of the EU and the people of Turkey. The Government is deeply grateful for the policy input of the joint committee and I look forward to working closely with the committee as the process of building closer relations between the EU and Turkey progresses over the coming year and beyond.

Senator Bradford

I welcome the Minister of State. On the one hand, we are calling for and hoping the Turkish authorities will instigate a major process of reform on human rights, the economy and the dispute with Cyprus but, on the other hand, it is not envisaged that negotiations will conclude shortly. The Minister of State mentioned a ten to 15-year timeframe. We know of the Irish solution to an Irish problem, but will this become a European solution to a European problem? This issue is being kicked far into touch. If early progress is made by the Turkish authorities on the substantive issues, will their application for membership be concluded sooner? A financial package is available from the EU which continues until 2014. If were a Turkish person advocating accession to the Union, I would be disappointed if I thought there would not be a light at the end of the tunnel for 15 years.

Deputy Treacy

I thank Senator Bradford and other members for their positive and detailed comments. During the discussions this year during the Irish and Dutch Presidencies, the Turkish Government fully accepted this is a process of negotiation and it must go through up to 31 chapters of negotiation to fulfil all the Union's criteria for full membership. It is also accepted it will take at least a decade, if not a decade and a half, to achieve this.

Ireland is proud to be a member of the Union and has never impeded a country's desire to be a member of the Union. We have always been positively progressive in our attitude to accommodate, facilitate and achieve a consensual solution to allow people to get the correct result at the correct time, provided certain criteria are met, which is necessary to give comfort to member states.

The Republic of Cyprus is a sovereign member of the EU. There is a long-standing difficulty between both Turkey and Cyprus. Turkey wishes to join the Union and we want to facilitate its membership but it is critically important that it should recognise every member state. Before a decision is taken on Friday by the heads of state, it is important that every diplomatic and political initiative, particularly those brought to the table by Turkey, should create a climate of opportunity and optimism to give comfort to every member state, to make sure the Cypriots can come on board with Turkey and to achieve unanimity to give Turkey an opportunity to become a member of the Union.

Chairman

We are on the same wavelength generally. This in entirely in Turkey's hands. Compromise is the order of the day when a country joins the Union. The Turkish people are extremely nationalistic and they are proud of what they have achieved, but compromise will be needed.

Senator Dardis raised the issue of agriculture. Some 50% of Turkish workers are employed in the black economy and, as people transfer from the agricultural to the service sector, hardship will be created. It will be difficult, but not impossible, for political leaders in Turkey to achieve consensus and to maintain pro-Union support at 70% over the next ten years. That will require a balancing act. On behalf of the committee, I wish Turkey luck. It has embarked on an exciting ten or 15 years.

I thank the Minister of State for his attendance. I invite him and his officials to the reception this evening at the Mansion House.

Deputy Treacy

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee. It has been a great pleasure to work with them over the past few months and I look forward to working with them in the years ahead.

Sitting suspended at 2.40 p.m. and resumed at 2.45 p.m.