JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN AFFAIRS debate -
Tuesday, 15 Dec 2009

Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals: Discussion.

Chairman

Item No. 1 is the Green Paper on the European Citizens' Initiative, COM (2009) 622. The Treaty of Lisbon, which will enter into force on 1 December 2010, sought in particular to enhance the democratic fabric of the EU. One of its major innovations in this regard, together with the enhanced role of national parliaments, is the introduction of a European Citizens' Initiative. The Green Paper identifies the key issues, including legal and administrative, that will be required to be addressed to put in place the procedural and practical arrangements for the new institutional instrument on the citizens' initiative.

The deadline for the submission of contributions on the Green Paper is 31 January 2010. The citizens' initiative, if established properly, has the potential to be significant in terms of improving the public's connection with the institutions of the EU and to enhance the democratic legitimacy of the Union. It can become an important tool in bridging the so-called democratic deficit. It is important that the procedures for its effective operation are thoroughly considered and assessed so that the resulting regulation meets the intention of the Lisbon treaty provisions and the expectations of citizens. Therefore, it is important that national parliaments, the main representatives of the interests of citizens, engage actively in the consideration of and dialogue on the elaboration of the citizens' initiative.

It is proposed that the joint committee examine the Green Paper in detail with a view to preparing a contribution by 31 January 2010. To assist in the committee's consideration, the members may wish to consult the Irish MEPs as well as selected civil society groups which may have an interest in this issue. The Government's information note, which has yet to be received but is expected shortly, should also assist the committee in its consideration.

At this stage, we should invite the views of the members, for example, on what civil society groups members should consult and on what approach we should take, and, for instance, on how many meetings we should seek to hold before 31 January 2010, on which date we must have a conclusion. Recognising that the Houses will resume on 15 or 17 January, how much time do we have? There is no meeting next week and the first meeting we will be able to hold will be on Tuesday, 12 January. There are three such occasions for meetings in January, on the 12th, 19th and 26th. Do we agree to dedicate that period, and to have at the end of it a conclusion for submission on the Green Paper?

Deputy Joe Costello

The citizens' initiative is quite a significant new proposal. It is for the citizens as distinct from the parliament. Would it be appropriate for the committee to put an advertisement in some of the newspapers setting out a brief summary of what is involved and inviting citizens to give their opinion on how it should be structured and what they think about it? It would have the benefit of creating a degree of awareness of some of the outcome of the Lisbon treaty. No doubt there are non-governmental organisations the length and breadth of Ireland which would wish to engage in it, but individual citizens would be interested too.

Deputy Noel Treacy

Are we talking about three meetings on 12, 19 and 26 January?

Chairman

We may hold two only, if we get enough work done. Those are the dates available. We could hold two meetings in the earlier week, on 12 January and on another date in that week as well. If we are meeting civil society groups, we can do it then but there are only three Tuesdays within which we must conclude the matter.

We can use the newspapers or the Oireachtas website. I would tend to go along with the proposal to take out a public advertisement in the newspapers, if it could be done and afforded. I am told such an advertisement would be expensive.

Deputy Noel Treacy

On a public advertisement, it might be advantageous for the secretariat to speak with the European Commission and Parliament office in Europe House on Molesworth Street to see is there any way we can get a message to the citizens without having to advertise it in every newspaper. They may have fine-tuned that. I am not sure. It is just an idea for consultation.

Chairman

Is Deputy Treacy's proposal agreed? Agreed. How should we liaise with the Members of the European Parliament? We need to have some discussion with them as well. When will we do that?

Senator Paschal Donohoe

Invite them along to our meetings?

Senator Déirdre de Búrca

Does the committee have any way of regularly liaising with them? If the committee wants to contact all of the MEPs about an issue, how does it do so?

Chairman

By e-mail. They automatically get an agenda for each of our meetings. They are also invited to each of our meetings, and they attend.

Deputy Noel Treacy

Are they not ex officio members of the committee?

Chairman

They are non-voting members of the committee. All Members of the European Parliament on the island have an entitlement to attend the meetings.

Deputy Noel Treacy

Excellent.

Chairman

Is it agreed that we send a letter informing them of our proposals and inviting submissions, or to tell them when we are likely to hold our meetings and to invite them to attend a meeting at their convenience?

Senator Déirdre de Búrca

That is a good idea.

Chairman

Is that agreed? Agreed. We will come back on the 12 and/or 19 January. We could come back on 7 January as well, but we will see how it goes. Is that agreed? Agreed. We will follow-up as required.

Item No. 2 is the contribution to the European Commission on the Green Paper on promoting the learning mobility of young people, COM (2009) 329. The joint committee initially considered this matter at its meeting of 5 November 2009 and looked for views from the Joint Committee on Education and Science as well as the Department of Education and Science.

The Joint Committee on Education and Science has no observations or proposals to make regarding the Green Paper. The Higher Education Authority's observations to the Department of Education and Science have been circulated to members together with the draft contribution to the European Commission prepared by the secretariat.

The deadline for submissions to this Green Paper is today, 15 December. On the basis of these submissions, the Commission will bring forward in the course of 2010 practical proposals aimed at promoting educational mobility among young people.

Learning mobility of young people is an important endeavour and the EU has an important role to play. It contributes substantially to a young person's employability and personal development while at the same time strengthening the EU's skills base and competitiveness fostering a European identity and enhancing European cohesion.

Ireland has a clear social and economic interest in supporting programmes which would increase learning mobility among young Irish people. In addition to exposing young Irish people to other European cultures and experiences, it will encourage a better understanding of the EU and Ireland's membership of it.

The role of education was identified as a key factor in promoting public engagement in and understanding of the EU by the Sub-Committee on Ireland's Future in the European Union. Extending mobility beyond third level institutions to include young people engaged in vocational training, at secondary level, and engaged in apprenticeships, and young entrepreneurs would also be important for promoting a greater European identity across a broader range of sectors in society.

Deputy Noel Treacy

One of the great strengths of the Union has been the opportunity it presents to young people in having an enhanced education and a broader lateral education as distinct from a singular national education. The contribution such programmes make to the qualifications and opportunities of those who have come through them and the contribution of colleges of Europe show the importance of the Union to each and every member citizen. Irrespective of who a person is or from where he or she comes, it gives that person the same opportunity. That is the great strength of the Union.

Something we should do during the lifetime of this committee would be to visit the College of Europe in Bruges and see at first hand the contribution it has made to our country and to our graduates over the years.

Senator Terry Leyden

The Erasmus programme has been one of the great successes of the European Union. It has allowed young people from all over Europe to get to know each other and develop their language skills. The programme should be supported, encouraged and enhanced in any way possible. I have first-hand experience of the programme and I am of the view that it is one of the greatest initiatives ever taken by the European Union to bring its citizens together. We should consider the further developments that might be encouraged in this regard.

Senator Déirdre de Búrca

The submission does not refer to the recognition of qualifications. Is that a matter to which consideration should be given, particularly in the context of encouraging mobility in the higher education sector?

Chairman

That was supposed to be included in the document but I am informed that the relevant page is missing. Members will be provided with copies of the page in due course.

Senator Déirdre de Búrca

New areas, such as green enterprise, are opening up and new trades and occupations are emerging. Rather than individual member states putting in place their own systems, there is an opportunity to take an EU-wide approach and develop training programmes and a system of qualifications or awards in the areas of green enterprise and green technology.

Senator Paschal Donohoe

The fact that points Nos. 5 to 9, inclusive, are missing from the submission has, perhaps, limited the discussion to some degree. However, if they are in any way similar to points Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, or Nos. 9 to 12, inclusive, I am sure they will be spot on. Would it be possible to circulate the relevant material by e-mail?

Chairman

They are being supplied as we speak. Suffice it to say that the submission is quite comprehensive. If members have any other issues with it, they should bring these to the attention of the committee now because today is the deadline for forwarding. Is it agreed to forward the contribution to the European Commission? Agreed.

Item No. 3 is the committee's joint contribution with the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Killeen, on the Green Paper on the reform of the Common Fisheries Policy — COM (2009) 163.

Deputy Noel Treacy

I understand that the negotiations on the Common Fisheries Policy are taking place at present.

Chairman

That is correct. The joint contribution relates to the Green Paper, which is slightly different but I accept there is a possibility that the two can converge and may have implications for each other. Copies of the joint contribution have been circulated to members.

The joint contribution arises on foot of the committees' initial consideration of the Green Paper, submissions received from stakeholders and our joint meeting with the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen. The draft version has been agreed by the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

The Green Paper could have wide-ranging implications for the fishing industry. This industry has been a matter of concern within the European Union in recent years and issues relating to it were particularly well ventilated during the first referendum campaign relating to the Lisbon treaty. I wish to bring to members' attention the necessity to be sure that everything contained in the submission recognises the importance of the fishing industry to the country in general and to maritime counties and sea-fishing families. I am sure members will want to comment on this matter.

Deputy Noel Treacy

The fishing industry is extremely important to Europe and Ireland. Its importance to Ireland was not recognised until recently. Ireland's territorial waters are ten times greater in area than its land territory. The recent floods highlighted the need to recognise the challenges that exist in the context of balancing the needs of the people against the need to sustain the tradition of fishing. There is no doubt but that Ireland, which is a small member state, cannot operate in isolation from its European Union partners in the context of tackling climate change.

Chairman

The most important issue in respect of the Green Paper is the need to ensure that this committee, in conjunction with the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, makes a positive input. We should not be left in a position where all we can do in three, five or seven years' time is complain about what happened. We are making our submissions in the initial stages and indicating therein our recognition that certain issues have arisen in respect of fishing and fish stocks and that there has been an impact on Irish fishing interests in recent years.

As discussed at our previous meeting, there is an issue in respect of discards whereby large unwanted catches of fish are being dumped at sea. This is causing serious ecological and conservational difficulties in respect of fish stocks. The joint contribution takes these matters into account. However, members should be aware that this is going to be a crucial issue and that it will become increasingly significant with the passage of time.

The joint contribution commences with an explanatory note. It then proceeds to discuss the Common Fisheries Policy objectives, as currently enshrined in Council Regulation (EC) No. 2371/2002, and matters relating to compliance. The latter has been a matter of irritation in this country. It then refers to regionalisation, industry self-management, scientific evidence — a critical issue — and exclusive restricted access zones. In the context of fishing policy, Iceland has applied to and will obviously become a member state of the European Union. That country will do everything in its power to defend its fishing territories. It has no other choice because fishing is vital to the Icelandic economy.

Like Iceland, Ireland is surrounded by water. In that context, the capacity of modern fishing fleets to exhaust fish stocks is immense. Vessels operating out of small Irish ports are not exhausting fish stocks. This is being done by the major international and well-funded factory ships that are hoovering up fish stocks across the globe. The behaviour of these ships will have a major and long-term impact unless corrective action is taken. It is proposed that action which, it is hoped, will not impact negatively on Irish interests will be taken.

The joint committee's contribution also refers to the Hague preferences, stating that these should be regularised and formally incorporated into the Common Fisheries Policy, and fleet over capacity, the matter to which I have just been referring. Page 5 refers to the market, fishing effort, total allowable catches and quotas. On page 6, discards — with which we dealt at our previous meeting — sanctions, labelling and funding are mentioned.

I draw members' attention to the section which deals with discards. It states, "the discard issue needs to be fundamentally tackled as it is completely undermining the current objectives of the CFP." That goes without saying. It emerged during the first referendum campaign relating to the Lisbon treaty that fish were being imported into the country by air while fish of the same species were being dumped off the coast. That is just crazy.

On the section relating to sanctions, a long and animated debate took place in respect of this issue two to three years ago. At that time it was felt that it was not necessary to criminalise those who did not comply with the CFP regulations, particularly as they were not responsible for the serious reduction in fish stocks. The section on labelling refers to the need to indicate the place of origin of imported fish. This represents an effort to monitor and control fishing off our coast. The final matter dealt with is the possible accession of Iceland into the EU. Do members wish to comment?

Senator Déirdre de Búrca

I wish to comment, but not on this issue. Before we move into private session, I want to raise a matter relating to the first item on today's agenda. I arrived late and I did not have an opportunity to make a contribution in respect of this matter.

The Commission seeks public submissions in respect of the citizens' initiative. The closing date for receipt of such submissions is 31 January. This initiative will be of major interest to the public. It was highlighted in the debate on the Lisbon treaty that from now on citizens will, in theory at least, be able to influence the legislative output of the Commission. Would it be possible for the committee to do anything to draw the public's attention to the fact that submissions are being sought by 31 January next?

Chairman

We agreed to publish a notice, either on the Internet or in the newspapers, to draw attention to the fact that the committee proposes to hold at least two meetings on the matter. Following that, we will discuss the matter with civil society groups. These meetings will be held between 7 January and 31 January. The committee secretariat has agreed to facilitate this procedure.

Senator Déirdre de Búrca

More people will probably see advertisements in newspapers. The difficulty with putting a notice on the Internet is that only those who visit the committee's website will see it.

Chairman

We have agreed to examine the possibility of placing advertisements in the newspapers. This will be subject to the necessary funds being available. We recognise that money is scarce at present.

Senator Déirdre de Búrca

Thank you, Chairman.

Chairman

Is it agreed to forward the joint committee's contribution to the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen? Agreed. We must go into private session to discuss item No. 4 on our agenda.

The joint committee went into private session at 2.35 p.m. and adjourned at 3 p.m. until 11 a.m. on Tuesday, 12 January 2010.