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JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN AFFAIRS debate -
Thursday, 9 Dec 2010

Forthcoming General Affairs and Foreign Affairs Councils: Discussion with Minister of State

Apologies have been received from Deputy Howlin and Senators Prendergast and Quinn. I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Roche. Members will be aware that the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Martin, is not able to attend and the Minster of State has stepped in. He is very familiar with the subjects under discussion.

I apologise on behalf of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Martin. With the permission of the Chairman, I propose to outline briefly the key items discussed at the last two Councils in November before turning to the agenda for the forthcoming Councils.

The General Affairs Council discussed the outcome of the last European Council. Members will recall that issues related to the permanent crisis mechanism were very much to the fore at the time. The Council also discussed preparations for the December European Council, a topic to which the committee will return this week. Again, the issue for discussion is the permanent crisis mechanism and such limited treaty change as will be needed to give effect to the change. At the meeting I told my colleagues that we appreciated the need for a future permanent crisis mechanism and that we would engage actively and constructively with President Van Rompuy in the consultations under way on the project. I underlined the need to ensure any proposed treaty amendments would be targeted and a limited as possible and said we hoped for a calm and orderly discussion since we had some instances of speculative comments made here, in Brussels and other capital cities having consequences.

The General Affairs Council also discussed the Commission's work programme for 2011, the use of video and teleconferencing facilties at Council meetings and the Commission communication on a stronger European disaster response.

The Foreign Affairs Council discussed the situation in Sudan, as well as in Iraq and Burma-Myanmar, following the elections held there and the subsequent release of Aung San Suu Kyi. Preparations for forthcoming summits, including the EU-Africa, EU-India, EU-Russia and OSCE summits, were also on the agenda. The focus of Ministers' discussions over lunch was on the Middle East peace process, Lebanon and Iran. A Foreign Affairs Council to be attended by Defence and Development Ministers is taking place today in Brussels.

I now turn to the coming week's agenda. The Foreign Affairs Council will take place on the afternoon of Monday, 13 December and it will be preceded by an eastern partnership ministerial meeting in the morning. I will attend both meetings.

The Foreign Affairs Council will begin by discussing the western Balkans. A discussion of political developments in the region will complement the enlargement discussion at the General Affairs Council, from which Council conclusions are expected. Issues likely to arise include the political situation in Bosnia-Herzegovina following the general election there on 3 October, the general election in Kosovo on 12 December and the proposed EU-facilitated Serbia-Kosovo dialogue.

In the past year there has been a welcome and marked improvement in the regional dynamic in the western Balkans. Relations between Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina have improved substantially. Serbia also agreed in September to participate in an EU-facilitated dialogue with Kosovo. The OSCE gave a positive assessment of the conduct of the general election in Bosnia-Herzegovina in October, for which there was a relatively high turnout. It is important that the newly elected leaders turn their attention to the issue of constitutional reform. The general election in Kosovo on 12 December will be the first since its independence and, as such, very important. Last December Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia secured visa-free access to the Schengen area, while Albania and Bosnia-Herzegovina joined them last month.

Ireland, with all member states, is committed to enhancing stability in the western Balkans region. The EU perspective for the countries in the region, agreed at the June 2003 Thessalonikí European Council, is essential for this. It is also essential that we remain engaged in assisting the countries of the region to undertake the reforms necessary for them to move forward on a pathway towards the European Union.

Sudan is on the agenda and we will return to the issue at Monday's meeting. This follows on from a detailed discussion at last month's Council when a task force was established to bring a greater focus to the support the European Union can provide for the political process there. With the 6 January referendum on self-determination for southern Sudan rapidly approaching, it is imperative that the European Union and the wider international community remain fully engaged in the preparations for this key event. An EU election observation mission is on the ground in Sudan and has monitored the voter registration process which has just concluded. The focus now is on what happens in the lead-up to the polls. I expect our discussion to focus on practical support for the fulfilment of the comprehensive peace agreement, including the holding of referendums in southern Sudan and Abyei.

We will also consider how the European Union, working with the United Nations and the African Union, can contribute to a post-referendum situation. While, understandably, there is a strong emphasis on southern Sudan at this time, we remain mindful of the situation in Darfur and support full implementation of the peace process there. Council conclusions with an operational focus should be agreed.

On the Middle East peace process, following last month's wide-ranging discussion, High Representative Ashton proposed that we focus this month on Gaza and what additional steps the European Union could take to improve the unacceptable situation there and expedite efforts to end the blockade, something I very much welcome, as will most members of the committee. It is important that the European Union works actively to highlight the continuing lack of progress in opening up Gaza since last summer's flotilla incident. We must keep up the pressure on Israel to do much more, particularly in regard to such issues as allowing a resumption of exports and allowing in sufficient cement and building materials to enable a real start to be made on the reconstruction efforts in Gaza. There was a very welcome announcement by Israel yesterday that a resumption of exports would be allowed. We will await with interest the details and scope of this decision which could be a significant advance. It is important, however, that the current ban should not simply be replaced by bureaucratic obstructions to exports, as has occurred in the past.

It is regrettable that so little progress has been made in the six months since the flotilla incident which we had hoped might constitute a watershed in regard to the continuation of the blockade. The unacceptable reality, as John Ging has observed, is that the vast majority of the population of Gaza continue to live in a state of abject dependency, with an unemployment rate of 40% and an aid dependency rate of 80%. As I said, this is completely counter-productive and unsustainable and only benefits the extremists and those who wish to keep Gaza isolated and impoverished.

As we have said several times in this committee, it is a policy which is the enemy of peace.

I will underline at next week's Council the need for some creative thinking on the part of the EU's in terms of the additional pressure we can bring to bear on Israel. We want Israel to do much more than simply allow a limited increase in consumer goods, much of which remain unaffordable for the vast majority of the citizens of Gaza. One possibility worth exploring is whether there is scope for some use of sea routes, involving pre-checking of goods bound for Gaza, as a means of increasing the flow of goods and construction materials.

I mentioned this proposition, which I have discussed on a number of occasions, to the committee. If goods could be preprocessed, put onto safe and secure shipping and brought into Gaza, Israel would have no need to worry about its security . The High Representative may also put forward some ideas of her own.

I very much welcome the renewed efforts at EU level to achieve progress on Gaza, including the visits made recently by a number of EU Foreign Ministers, including those from Germany, Finland and Italy. The EU can play a very useful role in maintaining attention on Gaza and strongly making the case for a fundamental change of policy on the blockade, for which the international community has repeatedly called, including at UN level in Security Council Resolution 1860, and which appeared imminent following last May's blockade.

On the talks process, there are reports that the US has abandoned its efforts to persuade Israel to restore the settlement construction freeze, because of the difficulty of negotiating this and the doubts that the short period envisaged by Israel - I understand it is three months - would justify the measures potentially on offer in exchange. The US is now considering other means of achieving a resumption of the talks. It is very discouraging that the Israeli Government evidently attaches higher priority to appeasing settlers than to achieving a resumption of talks.

We will also discuss the situation in Somalia, one of the poorest countries in Africa and the world. Ongoing violence and lawlessness pose a grave challenge to the population in Somalia while piracy in Somali waters is a menace to all. Together with the UN and the African Union, the EU is already contributing to the efforts of the international community to bring stability and development to Somalia.

The EU training mission in support of the Transitional Federal Government is helping to develop Somali security forces while the EU's naval operation Atalanta is helping to combat the threat posed by piracy from Somali territory. It is clear that any solution to the challenges facing Somalia must be found on land, and not just at sea. While there have been some recent positive developments in the composition of the Transitional Federal Government in Somalia, it remains weak with its remit confined to the capital, Mogadishu.

We need to consider how we can further contribute to strengthening the Transitional Federal Government and the political process as a whole in Somalia, as well as the many challenges facing the Somali people, not least the humanitarian and security situation in the country. A number of member states may bring forward proposals and I look forward to a preliminary discussion on how the EU can play a greater role in this regard.

Ministers will be joined by a special representative for their discussion on Afghanistan. The key political development there recently was the parliamentary elections held on 18 September. As of yet, the complete election results are not available, which is extraordinary, although reports have described widespread violence and fraud on the day of the election. There is ongoing controversy regarding allegations of fraud between the Independent Electoral Commission, the Electoral Complaints Commission and the Government of Afghanistan.

Ministers will also look to the period ahead and the strengthening of the EU's contribution in the areas of electoral reform, reconciliation and reintegration, rule of law, including police reform, national capacity building, and regional co-operation. Ireland is committed to the development of a stable Afghanistan that respects the rule of law and six members of the Garda Síochána were deployed last month to serve with the EU police mission, two of which will be based in Kabul and four in Bamyan province, where they will monitor and train their Afghan police counterparts.

The six gardaí join two other civilian experts, a senior rule of law officer and a strategic analyst, who were contracted by the Department of Foreign Affairs to serve with the mission. In addition, seven members of the Defence Forces continue to serve in the International Security Assistance Force. Since 2005, Irish Aid has provided nearly €28 million in humanitarian assistance to Afghanistan.

The Council is likely to have a general discussion of the situation in Moldova with no formal conclusions, given what is a very fluid situation. Following parliamentary elections held on 28 November, negotiations are ongoing between the parties on forming a Government and electing a President.

Under any other business, we will deal with the OSCE. I welcome the commemorative declaration which was agreed at the OSCE by the 56 participating states. This document provides a useful basis for continuing the crucial work it performs in promoting peace, stability and prosperity across the OSCE region. Ireland will take this work forward as chair-in-office of the organisation in 2012.

I particularly welcome the strong language in the declaration reaffirming the commitment of all OSCE participating states to what we have agreed in the human rights area. The declaration tasks the incoming chairmanships, including our own in 2012, with developing an action plan for the OSCE. I was pleased to see an acknowledgment in the declaration of the value of the work done by the OSCE's Forum for Security Cooperation, FSC. Ireland will shortly conclude a three-month chairmanship of the forum, during which we led negotiations on a proposed updating of the so-called Vienna document which covers arms control and confidence and security-building measures.

Over dinner on Monday evening, hosted by the High Representative, we will have an opportunity to discuss Iran, the EU's relationship with strategic partners and political priorities for the Foreign Affairs Council during 2011. High Representative Ashton will brief Ministers on the outcome of what she has described as detailed substantive talks between the E3+3 and Iran which took place in Geneva earlier this week.

The resumption of direct negotiations with Iran on its nuclear programme after a 14 month gap represents a very welcome and positive development which, it is to be hoped, can be built upon in future rounds of discussions. Both sides have agreed to continue the talks in Istanbul in late January. Ultimately, the many vital issues of interest between Iran and the international community need to be addressed in direct negotiations conducted in a constructive atmosphere. It will be interesting to hear the High Representative's assessment of the extent to which the Iranian negotiators in Geneva were seriously engaged, particularly on the nuclear issue.

Ministers will discuss with High Representative Ashton the main elements of the progress report on the EU's policy on engagement with strategic partners that she will present to the December European Council. The September European Council considered how the Union can bring focus and strategic direction to its external agenda. EU leaders asked High Representative Ashton to review the Union's relations with each of its strategic partners.

The discussion at next week's Foreign Affairs Council will focus on three strategic partners, namely, the US, China and Russia. The success of the EU summit meetings with the US last month and with Russia earlier this week has served to underline the value of strengthened co-ordination and careful preparation, including the identification by the European Council of key EU messages, in advance of these important events.

While the strategic partnerships will themselves be a priority for the Union's external relations in 2011, in our discussion on political priorities we will have an opportunity to emphasise the importance of issues such as the Middle East peace process, Sudan, Somalia, human rights and non-proliferation and disarmament and other pressing issues on which the Union can play a constructive role.

The General Affairs Council will take place on the morning of Tuesday, 14 December, which I may attend, depending on pairing arrangements. The first issue to be discussed will be the citizens' initiative. I am pleased that agreement was reached last week between the Presidency, Commission and the European Parliament on this issue.

The Parliament is expected to give formal approval to the proposal during its plenary session on 15 December and it is envisaged that the Council will adopt it at the January GAC. I am satisfied that the citizens' initiative process will be clear, simple and user-friendly and I look forward to its entry into force. Members will recall that this was an innovation introduced by the Lisbon treaty that was designed to bring the European Union closer to the citizens of Europe.

Following the publication on 9 November of the Commission's communication on enlargement strategy and challenges, the Council will review progress on enlargement and agree conclusions on the three candidate countries and the six potential candidates from the western Balkans. The Council is expected to reaffirm the Commission's view that enlargement reinforces peace, democracy and stability in Europe, while serving the EU's strategic interests, including in the areas of economic recovery and sustainable growth. Equally, enlargement serves as a key driver for political and economic reform in applicant countries.

Ministers are expected to approve conclusions endorsing the Commission's work on a stronger European disaster response. We in Ireland have a proud tradition of responding to emergencies across the globe and have played a leading role in work to enhance the international humanitarian system in recent years. We strongly support the Commission's efforts to improve the EU's capacity to respond to disasters within and outside its borders. I had a very useful opportunity to discuss a number of ideas underlying the Commission's work during Commissioner Georgieva's recent visit to Dublin.

The strengthening of economic, social and territorial cohesion is one of the EU's key aims, set out in the treaty. On 10 November, the Commission published its fifth report examining the successes and challenges of the EU's social cohesion policy with a particular focus on the contribution of this policy to growth and development. An informal ministerial meeting on 22 and 23 November has considered the report and the Belgian Presidency will give an account of this meeting at the GAC. The Commission will table formal legislative proposals on the future cohesion policy by the summer of 2011. These will then form part of the wider package of policy proposals within the multiannual financial framework to run from 2014.

The Belgian Presidency will present a report on the implementation of the ten year European strategy for jobs and growth, "Europe 2020", adopted in June 2010 by the European Council. Following on from the agreement on the five EU headline targets covering employment; research and development, including innovation, climate change and energy, education and social inclusion, particularly poverty, attention has turned to the substantial body of work that must be undertaken at national and EU level to ensure that this strategy is implemented.

The GAC will briefly discuss preparation for the European Council in 4 February 2011. It is anticipated that this meeting will focus on the issues of innovation and energy. Further preparatory work for the February European Council will be undertaken at the next GAC which will take place on 31 January.

The principal item on the agenda of this month's GAC meeting is preparation for the December European Council. The main issue for decision at the European Council concerns the creation of a permanent crisis resolution mechanism to serve as a successor to the current European financial stability facility, due to expire in 2013, and the necessary related limited treaty amendment. The key features of the new permanent crisis resolution mechanism, to be known as the European stability mechanism, were agreed at a meeting of euro group Ministers in Brussels on Sunday, 28 November. As mandated by the European Council in October, President Van Rompuy has been engaged in bilateral consultations with member states on the details of the treaty amendment. Irish officials met representatives of the President's office on 2 December.

At the December European Council meeting, President Van Rompuy will report back on his round of contacts with member states concerning the features of the new mechanism as well as on the issue of treaty change. He will ask for agreement on the outline of the mechanism and on the treaty amendment text. I am happy to report to this committee that the approach which is envisaged in the current draft of the European Council conclusions concerning the treaty change process is that favoured by Ireland and most other member states. It is proposed that the simplified revision procedure - Article 48.6 of the TEU - will be used. This approach has the dual advantage of relative speed, which is desirable in these times of market volatility, and that this procedure explicitly rules out the possibility of an amendment which would increase the competences conferred on the Union; in other words this will be a limited treaty amendment in line with the aspirations expressed by members of this committee.

With regard to the language of the proposed treaty amendment, what is envisaged in the most recent discussion is a clause that would simply provide for the establishment of a mechanism to safeguard the stability of the Euro area. Until the precise terms of the amendment are presented and agreed, we cannot form a definitive view on how such a treaty amendment might be ratified in Ireland, including whether a referendum would be necessary. Without being coy, the concerns expressed by committee members and in the House on several occasions recently will all be met. It is expected that the proposed language of a treaty amendment will be available to the General Affairs Council to consider next Tuesday ahead of the European Council meeting. We already have an advance draft and I will deal with that when answering questions.

The second element of President Van Rompuy's report to the December European Council will cover the main features of the new European stability mechanism. The key features of this have already been agreed by euro group Ministers at the end of last month.

The December European Council will follow-up on its conclusions from its October meeting on the Union's budget, when it was stressed that it is essential that the European Union budget and the forthcoming multiannual financial framework reflect the consolidation efforts being made by member states to bring their deficit and debt levels on to a more sustainable path. The December European Council will return to the issue of how pension reform is accounted for in the implementation of the Stability and Growth Pact, to take into account the concerns of a number of new member states. This is an issue relating to how statistics are reported.

The European Council will consider the progress report on relations with strategic partners that High Representative Ashton will present. Ministers will have already discussed the topic in detail at the FAC dinner on the previous evening and it is likely therefore that the GAC will simply note the current position.

I should also mention that the regulation providing for the renewal of the existing derogation on the use of Irish by the EU institutions for a further five years, from January 2012 to December 2016, will be approved at next week's GAC. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs brought a memorandum to Government on this issue on 23 November. As no member state has signalled any difficulty with this proposal, it should be taken as an information point at the GAC.

That concludes my comments on the agenda for the General Affairs Council and the Foreign Affairs Council meetings next week and I am grateful to have had this opportunity to set them out to the Oireachtas. I will be very pleased to hear the comments of the committee as we finalise our preparations for the Councils in the coming days and I will be very happy to respond to any questions members may have.

It is an important agenda, and I note particularly the report on the revision of the treaty and the confirmation that any changes will be minor. We would like to hear more on that because, as we have discussed previously, we fear anything that would result in a referendum. At times of crisis, the European Union usually gets things right in the end. We go off in different directions, with different solutions, and often get overtaken by events so this is a time for calm.

We have the draft text and it might be useful if members heard it. I warn that it is just a draft and that it is still being negotiated. Given that we got it this morning, it is important that committee members hear it. It states that member states whose currency is the euro may establish among themselves a stability mechanism to safeguard the stability of the euro area as a whole and that the granting of financial assistance under the mechanism will be made subject to strict conditions. If members wish I can supply a copy to the committee clerk. It is a draft that has to be finally agreed. I do not think there will be any major departure from the text.

I thank the Minister of State. That is useful information. I call Senator Donohoe.

I welcome the Minister of State and thank him for supplying the text. Much of the discussion we have had so far on this amendment has been around whether we need a referendum. It will be important in the coming weeks in regard to the proposed change that we make clear that there is no sense that people are running away from a referendum, it is just simply that one is not required. Under the terms of the Lisbon treaty this does not deliver further competence to Brussels or to the central institutions of Europe. Based on that criteria which was voted in by the Lisbon treaty and the protocols surrounding it, a referendum is not required. It is important in the public discussion that we make that clear. It would be very damaging if there was a sense that people were trying to evade public engagement or public debate on this issue. In one of the early paragraphs of his contribution the Minister of State said "...we hoped for a calm and orderly discussion, since we had some instances of speculative comments having consequences." We all know what the Minister of State was referring to.

In the couple of weeks since then, some members of the European Union have been saying that the European financial stability fund needs to be increased. At the end of that period, the chairman of that fund said it does not need any more money. The Italian finance minister was reported in the Financial Times as speaking on the concept of an eBond, which by the end of the day was shot down by other EU members. It appears there is quite intense disarray in terms of the response.

Without being flippant - I am not trying to be humorous because I can never be humorous in situations like this - I was thinking of the Ronan Keating song "You say it best when you say nothing at all." We need calm reflection before people start to make statements for which there is not full support. They just contribute to the idea that Europe is not clearing the way forward. We have had two more examples of that in recent weeks which is a pity, given that some of the mechanisms they have already agreed are being used to benefit member states such as Ireland.

My third point is in regard to our chairmanship of the OSCE. This will be a great opportunity for our country and we will have the chair for 12 months during a time when we are eager to work on our international reputation. Perhaps the Minister of State will inform the committee of the plans for the Irish chairmanship and the priorities being looked at.

I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. The big question is whether the amendment is needed. Has the issue been thrashed out as to whether the amendment is needed? He said in his presentation: "Until the precise terms of the amendment are presented and agreed, we cannot, of course, form a definitive view as to how such a treaty amendment might be ratified in Ireland..." If the terms of the amendment are presented and agreed, does that not present a fait accompli? Presumably, that would include agreement by Ireland and the other countries. Before we go down any route we need to be sure it is necessary - that is the most important question at this stage.

Reference was made to the Europe 2020 strategy which covers employment, training and so on. Earlier in the year an application for funding for FÁS had been put on hold because of certain issues arising. What is the present position and have those issues been resolved? It is important that we seek out whatever funding is available through the ESF mechanism. Such funding was helpful in the past and was beneficial for the training of people in Ireland. Training and education for the workforce is extremely important for Ireland at present.

I welcome the Minister of State. I welcome the fact that the proposed simplified revision procedure will be used - I mentioned at the previous meeting that this was the way we should proceed.

I support the comments of my colleague, Senator Donohoe, on cohesion of members and their utterances during the past week or so. There appears to be a lack of cohesion, certainly it does nothing for stability which is what Europe needs.

The Minister of State mentioned Afghanistan and Somalia and said that six members of the Garda Síochána serve in the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan. I understand that five members of the Irish Permanent Defence Force serve in Somalia. How many members of the Irish Permanent Defence Forces are stationed abroad in such missions? Are these the only members who serve abroad or are there many more serving in such missions? If the Minister of State does not have the numbers perhaps he will provide them at a later stage. Does he envisage other members of the Defence Forces becoming involved in such missions as they arise and what is our position in that regard?

I welcome the Minister of State. I am mindful that the situation in Darfur may be overshadowed by the referendum on self-determination for southern Sudan. Everybody expects it will vote for self-determination in what will, in all likelihood, be free and fair elections, in contrast to the elections there earlier in the year, over which the civil society movement, in particular, had many questions. It certainly appears that a level of maladministration led to the results being incredible. I hope we can celebrate the result of the southern Sudanese election as reflecting the real views of the people but continue to keep pressure on northern Sudan in regard to Darfur and the legitimacy of the elections earlier in the near. New elections ought to be held there. That is not something that can be coerced but it is desirable.

In regard to Gaza, there has been more bad news this week given that the US has abandoned its efforts to restore the construction freeze. I note that earlier in the year, after the flotilla incident, Amnesty International list, among those acting with impunity towards Palestinians, not only the army and navy but the settlers themselves. It is a very serious claim but I trust Amnesty International when it makes such a claim in its annual human rights audit. That this appeasement should continue is discouraging. I wonder if among the more creative measures that may be considered at next week's meeting would be the issue of labelling occupied territory goods as such? It is a lever that ought to be used to try to resolve some of the outstanding and very serious issues in the area. I was struck by John Ging's contribution to the committee a couple of weeks ago and his impatience with the continuing situation. When consumer goods were allowed into Gaza the tunnel economy essentially collapsed. With each new line of trade that can be opened, one gives legitimacy to those who are in charge and takes away funding that is generated by the tunnel economy.

With regard to the western Balkans, does the Minister have a response to chief prosecutor, Serge Brammertz's, most recent comments in regard to the efforts to bring to justice the two indicted war criminals who are still at large in Serbia?

The Minister has received a broad response from members. As he is probably aware, members of the committee attended a meeting addressed by EU Council President Van Rompuy, EU Commission President Barroso and Commissioner Michel Barnier in recent weeks and it was clear that their experience had a calming effect on the proceedings. In the climate of indecision at that time their experience counted greatly and their reassurance was certainly needed. The much-maligned euro currency is still a very strong currency in international markets, despite the efforts of many people to pry one or other member state out of the eurozone. It will remain a strong currency. Ultimately, some of us hope all the member states will adopt the same currency, which would be immeasurably supportive and would greatly strengthen it.

With regard to the peace process, or lack of it, in Gaza, one of the major flaws with what is happening there is the lack of a permanent structure to provide an ongoing emphasis on and impetus to the issue and to keep the various parties focused on it. Until that is done and there is a commitment to do it, the process will go around in circles and will be back in the same position in a few years. As we know from the experience in this country, it is easier to revert to the position one held formerly than to progress.

The Chairman is right on the last point. A permanent structure is needed to anchor that process. Otherwise, it will simply keep drifting. In fact, that instability is at the core of the problem in that region so it is in everybody's greater interest that the issue should be resolved.

I agree with Senator Donohoe that it is important to point out that the Irish people ratified a process which included the mechanism that will now be used. It is not a question, therefore, of running away from a referendum. This is an important point. A mechanism was put in place to make modest adjustments. The adjustment I outlined to the committee - if that is the wording that is held, which I believe it will be - is a modest adjustment and not the type that would do any violence to any position this country has ever held. I do not believe it would run into difficulties with the Crotty judgment, which is the benchmark. Senator Donohoe is correct and his point is well made. Senator Cummins made a similar point.

Both Senators made an important point about the speculative commentary. There is no doubt that one speaks most eloquently when one says nothing at all. "Careless talk costs lives" was a motto during the Second World War. In terms of the euro and its safety, careless speculation has done irreparable and dreadful damage. It is time people learned to be a little more circumspect in what they say. Speculation about major countries leaving the euro which has to be responded to in the European press is not helpful. The type of speculation and briefing that took place against Ireland was not helpful. It is certainly not part of the Community method. One of the great strengths of Europe has always been its solidarity. If the European Union does not hang together, each state will hang separately. If we do not exercise a little more circumspection, particularly in the area of speculative commentary, and a little more self-discipline, one or two of the larger member states could find themselves creating self-fulfilling prophecies. It is not helpful or in anybody's interest.

I did not have an opportunity to make a contribution to the debate in the Dáil on the budget. I had intended to make a contribution on a group called the friends of the Community method, a group of small and medium member states. The Chairman is well aware of it as he was involved when it was established. The small and medium member states try to put forward the view that everything that is done in Europe is anchored in the Community method, which is based on solidarity and the well-proven tracks that the European Union has passed through. I strongly agree with the point both Senators made. It is time a little more solidarity was expressed and people were more careful and circumspect in their pronouncements.

Obviously, in a free society people have the right to voice their opinions but when senior, and sometimes not so senior, political figures offer commentary that might play well with local media or address an issue in an individual member state, it is not cost free. We have seen the cost that people must pay and the difficulties. There is a danger of the eurozone talking itself into trouble if people do not learn to rein in their commentary. There are plenty of processes in Europe, through the Councils, bilateral contacts, informal lunches and working dinners, for politicians from all the member states to make their views known on a one-to-one basis. They should speak within the confines of meetings so we do not have speculation running rife and causing difficulties for all economies.

Deputy Tuffy raised the issue of the referendum and asked if the amendment was really necessary. My strong view is that it is. The existing mechanism is an ad hoc mechanism. Consider the processes that have been adopted since the foundation of the Union. Whenever a crisis has presented, an ad hoc mechanism was put in place. People then looked at what must be done to strengthen that mechanism. Clearly, a number of issues have arisen over the period since the Greek difficulties and the introduction of the mechanism. On the basis of the experience in Ireland and the use of the mechanism in Greece, it is clear there are issues that must be dealt with, not least the issue that started the speculation as to who will ultimately bear the risk and have to pay for the consequences of actions.

With regard to the text, what I have given the committee is the negotiating text that is produced before the meeting. I cannot envisage it being changed, although I could be wrong. As soon as it is finalised and agreed it must go to the Attorney General for analysis and he will then advise the Government. With regard to the use of Article 48.6, it would be perverse in the extreme if, having ratified the process and endorsed it in a referendum, some people in Ireland were to claim that this was an avoidance mechanism.

The Senator also asked about the OSCE. Unfortunately, due to the political exigencies of the moment, I was not in a position to attend the Astana summit. We should be present at such meetings. The commemorative declaration is interesting. In the first place, the fact that the summit took place was interesting because it has been 11 years since the OSCE has held such a summit. The declaration tasked the incoming chairmanships - Lithuania is next, followed by Ireland - with developing an action plan to take the OSCE forward. The plan is likely to include proposals to modernise the OSCE's arms control regime, which we would all welcome very much because Europe is still a big producer and exporter of arms. This will strengthen the organisation's conflict prevention and crisis management capacity. We would all welcome that. In the areas of crisis management and helping to build peace, we have much experience in this country, both from our own internal difficulties over the year and from our experience at the UN. I would see these as real opportunities for the Irish chairmanship to make a contribution in 2012.

The development of a plan in those areas would be the key focus and we are working on this. Whichever Administration leads us into 2012 will follow it up. It is important we make a contribution. Ireland has made a contribution at the OSCE. The OSCE was rather perversely portrayed from time to time in this country by people who seemed to take a view that anything that happens outside Tooman is a major threat to us. It is not. The OSCE is a wonderful institution that can help to bring a focus across the whole of its region on the creation of peace, stability and conflict prevention. Ireland can and should make a big contribution to this.

One of the other areas that is likely to come up during the Irish chairmanship is that of the so-called frozen conflicts. There are issues in Transnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh, Georgia and so on. We have a lot that we can bring to the table on that.

There is a terrible risk at the moment, in response to everything that is going on, that we retreat into ourselves and that we are seen to retreat into ourselves by our peers across the world. Chairing these organisations might not make the front page of newspapers, but other countries see the work we do and this influences how we are seen. I agree with what the Minister of State said and I hope that whoever is in charge of this in a year's time makes the most of it and sees it as an opportunity to make up some ground.

I agree with the Senator. One of the worst things that could happen to this country during this period of introspection and self-flagellation is that we would turn in on ourselves. That would be very foolish. The point the Senator makes is illustrative. We have much experience in the settlement of conflicts, going from the Anglo-Irish Agreement right up to the present. Our experience is deeply respected. We are regarded as people who do not have a colonial past. We are regarded as relatively honest brokers in all of these issues. I have spoken to people from Georgia and they see that Ireland could be helpful in the processes in the region.

We want to focus on the strengths of the OSCE. This is one of the big contributions we could make and I hope that whoever is responsible, we should focus more on the human rights aspects of the OSCE. We could make contributions on freedom of speech, freedom of media and freedom of association. I agree with the Senator and I think it is an issue on which there would be no division in the Houses.

Going back to Deputy Tuffy's point, I think the current ad hoc mechanism is dangerous simply because it is ad hoc. By definition, the stability is not helped by the commentaries we have been talking about, and it is important to have stability. I will have to get the relevant Minister to respond to the Deputy on the FÁS funding issue.

Senator Cummins asked about the Department of Defence. Other than the cases we have mentioned, I am not sure if there is any other defence presence. I will ask the Minister for Defence to give the Senator the list of the current deployment of military personnel. It is much smaller since we began to discontinue-----

Will the Minister of State circulate that?

I will circulate it to the committee. Senator Dearey made a point about Darfur. He is right. The international focus is now on the referendum and it is very important that focus not be taken off northern Sudan, especially Darfur. The elections there have caused many concerns. I agree with the Senator on Gaza. The fact that the US revised or abandoned its discussion position is not good. The photographs of the settlements published in the media were very hard. Notwithstanding the fact that the US has taken a certain stance, those talks have still the best chance in the region.

The Senator also mentioned the issue of produce. The Department of Foreign Affairs has been exploring the question of labelling produce from settlements in the West Bank with the Departments responsible in this area. It is not seen as a priority but I see the point the Senator is making. There is a feeling among consumers that this would be a positive thing. I am in no doubt that produce from Palestine needs proper labelling. I agree with the Senator on that. I think it is important that consumers know if something is coming from a settlement or from the domestic population. That is important because consumers have the right to exercise those choices.

Would the Minister envisage bringing that idea forward?

The Minister for Foreign Affairs has mentioned it to colleagues and to officials in other Departments. They might not see this as a priority because their own focus is on domestic issues. He has made that point, however, and he shares my view that it would be a good thing. Although it has received very little public attention, if it were a matter of more widespread debate, the public would agree with the view expressed.

It is disappointing that so little progress has been made on settlements. Even though many people knock the EU, it is still involved in the Quartet and is still a major funder of the authorities that have been set up there. One of the frustrating things is that European taxpayers' money built much of the infrastructure that was destroyed. It is important we move forward.

The Senator's point on Darfur is correct. It is very important all governments bring pressure to bear on the Government of Sudan to implement the peace process more fully. That is why it is important Darfur be kept to the forefront. I happen to know that is a very passionately held view of the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

On the Balkans question, the Brammertz report took a more balanced view than was speculated would be the case. When we had our last meeting here, there was much media speculation that his report would be very negative, but he has produced a very mixed verdict. He said that Serbia is co-operating well in ongoing cases before the tribunal. This did not feature in media reports at the time. Deputy Barrett quoted some of the media comment at the time. On the search for Mladic and Hadzic, he said that the Serbian authorities are working on the implementation of his previous recommendations but there is much left to be done and faster progress is required. That is somewhat negative but it is not quite as negative as it could have been. I have spoken to ministers from the region and there is a view that the Serbian authorities are more anxious to resolve this but they still have difficulties.

He also made the point that co-operation with the ICTY is significant. The view of every member state is that such co-operation is a sine qua non for any country in the western Balkans wanting to come closer to the EU. During the discussion on Monday next, the Brammertz report will be strongly aired and I look forward to reporting back to the committee on that because a number of members are interested, particularly Deputy Barrett and Senator Dearey.

I thank the Minister of State and his officials for attending. The European institutions are going through an important time and they need to show leadership, profess stability and put it into operation. There was a great deal of misinformed and uninformed commentary in recent times and various publications were quoted as if they were the foundation of common sense and wisdom but they had no basis at all for their commentary. Some people elected to public office, sadly, rushed around in animated fashion attempting to present solutions to something that had no basis. For instance, it was regularly reported the euro had fallen to an all-time low. People have short memories. The euro has grown strongly over the past ten years against other major currencies to an extent that was not anticipated when it was established.

It is ironic that not many months ago commentators were referring to the strength of the euro being a "problem".

In the current climate, commentary is hugely important but it is always essential to dissect the origins of the commentary and find out whether there is an agenda behind it. That is always the case.

Sitting suspended at 12.45 p.m. and resumed at 12.55 p.m.
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