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Joint Committee on European Union Affairs debate -
Tuesday, 10 Mar 2015

General Affairs Council: Minister of State at Department of the Taoiseach

We have received apologies from Deputy Timmy Dooley and Senator Terry Leyden. I remind members and guests that they need to switch off their mobile phones fully; it is not sufficient to leave them in silent mode.

Today there will be two separate sessions, the first of which, which will conclude at 3 p.m., is with the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Dara Murphy, who will discuss Ireland's position on the agenda items for the forthcoming General Affairs Council, including the European semester and the Government's reaction to the European Commission's winter economic report. He will also update us on the situation with respect to Greece.

In the second session we will be joined by Sir Bill Cash, MP, chairman of the committee on EU scrutiny in the House of Commons. He will help us in our continuing discussions on a potential Brexit. We will focus on UK politics surrounding the issue. That session will start at 3 p.m. or earlier, depending on how we get on in the first.

On behalf of the joint committee, I welcome the Minister of State and invite him to make his opening remarks.

Gabhaim mo bhuíochas leis an gCathaoirleach agus as ucht an cuireadh a bheith anseo ar an lá iontach seo. I am pleased to be back again this week, ahead of the General Affairs Council which is due to take place on St. Patrick’s Day and will discuss the European semester 2015. The March General Affairs Council will prepare for the meeting of the European Council which is due to take place on 19 and 20 March. The European Council will have three agenda items: energy union; the European semester, which discussion will include a broad exchange of views on the economic situation in the European Union; and external relations. The external relations component will focus on relations with Russia and the conflict in Ukraine, as well as the forthcoming Eastern Partnership summit in Riga, Latvia, and the deteriorating situation in Libya. In addition to preparing for the European Council, the General Affairs Council will consider the 2015 European semester and inter-institutional issues.

Before I look ahead to next week’s meeting, please allow me to update members briefly on the outcome of the February meeting of the General Affairs Council. The Latvian Presidency presented the outline of its priorities for the semester, highlighting a focus on boosting investment, energy union, trade, the digital agenda and the Eastern Partnership. The Council also engaged in a comprehensive discussion on counter-terrorism. The renewed focus on this issue followed, of course, the tragic attacks in Paris in January. The Council took stock of various measures advanced within the European Union to combat terrorism, ahead of a joint statement by EU Heads of State and Government later that week.

The Presidency presented the state of play on a proposed technical amendment to the Multiannual Financial Framework, MFF, regulation.

The Council also noted the annotated agenda for the March European Council and had a brief exchange of views. Ministers present had a working lunch with Commission First Vice President, Frans Timmermans, during which a broad range of issues relating to the Commission’s work programme for 2015 were debated, including better regulation and inter-institutional relations.

I will now turn to the March General Affairs Council. The meeting will focus primarily on preparations for the European Council. The first issue to be discussed is energy union. Geopolitical events, worldwide energy competition and the impact of climate change have all prompted a focus on securing the Union’s energy future.

The Council discussion will be shaped by the recent communication from the Commission on a framework strategy for a resilient energy union with a forward-looking climate change policy. Ireland very much welcomes this communication, which sets out a roadmap for assuring secure, affordable and climate-friendly energy across all member states. Among a number of initiatives, the Commission has set out plans to enhance regional co-operation, introduce new legislation to ensure supply of electricity and gas, increase EU funding for energy efficiency, and report annually on the state of the energy union.

It is anticipated that the European Council deliberations will focus on two key aspects of the energy union project, namely, enhancing energy security and reaping the benefits of the internal energy market. Given the centrality of energy policy to achieving our climate change ambitions, there will also be an exchange on how best to co-ordinate our diplomatic action in order to increase the Union’s leverage and effectiveness ahead of the critical climate conference in Paris next December. It is important that we act effectively to ensure that other states match the ambitious goals agreed last year by the Union.

Enhancing Europe’s energy security is essential for peripheral, poorly connected member states, of which we are one. Diversifying the routes and sources of our energy, and putting in place adequate infrastructure to support this diversification, will be necessary to meet our energy challenges of the future.

Developing indigenous resources, particularly in the area of renewable energy, will be also very important for increasing security of supply. The energy union strategy will seek to ensure that Europe retains its leading global role in renewable energy. Ireland has one of the best offshore renewable energy resources in the world, particularly wave energy, and Irish researchers and entrepreneurs are at the forefront of technological developments in this sector, particularly in the marine centre in Ringaskiddy in Cork. I recently witnessed this first hand with my French counterpart, Harlem Désir, to when we visited Ringaskiddy, UCC and the Irish Maritime and Energy Resource Cluster. The visit exemplified the energy union in action. We also explored opportunities for co-operation between Ireland and France in the area of renewable energy, and discussed a possible submarine electricity interconnector between Ireland and France. Both countries of course have very large coastlines and have marine resources in that regard.

There are currently three external relations items scheduled for discussion at the European Council. These are relations with Russia and the situation in Ukraine; the Eastern Partnership; and developments in Libya. Developments on the ground in Ukraine will shape the European Council discussions both on Ukraine itself and on broader EU relations with Russia. In particular, progress on implementation of the 12 February Minsk agreement will be reviewed. After a troubled beginning, the ceasefire in eastern Ukraine appears to have taken hold. Prisoner exchanges have taken place and both sides have begun withdrawing heavy weapons from the front line.

This is welcome. However, the situation remains tense and fragile. It is crucial that the OSCE monitoring mission is given full and unhindered access to all areas of the conflict zone, so that it is in a position to definitively verify that weapons have been withdrawn, and confirm the locations to which they have been taken.

The question of further economic sanctions is likely to be a feature of the European Council discussions. Following consultations with EU member states and a subsequent video conference with France, Germany, Italy, UK and US, President Tusk stated on 3 March that leaders had underlined the close linkage between sanctions and the full implementation of the Minsk agreements, making it clear that the EU was ready to take further measures if the agreements were further violated. Ireland has consistently favoured the dual-track approach adopted by the EU, involving both political dialogue and robust sanctions, with a view to bringing an end to the conflict that has claimed over 6,000 lives and caused untold hardship. I will have an opportunity to hear the Ukrainian perspective directly when, together with EU colleagues, I will meet with Ukrainian Foreign Minister Klimkin in the margins of the Foreign Affairs Council next week.

The European Council will hold an orientation debate ahead of the Eastern Partnership summit, which will be held in Riga on 21 and 22 May. The Eastern Partnership aims to enhance the EU’s relationships with Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine. The summit will allow the EU and its eastern partners to take stock of developments in the Eastern Partnership since the last summit in Vilnius in 2013, and to consider the path ahead. The summit will offer the opportunity, in particular, to assess initial progress by Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine in the implementation of their EU association agreements, with assistance provided by the EU. The Dáil approved the terms of the agreements on 28 January, after a debate and consideration of the agreements by the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade. This paves the way for their ratification by Ireland, which will be completed before the Riga summit.

The European Council will also discuss the situation in Europe’s southern neighbourhood, specifically in Libya, and consider the implications for the security of the EU, in terms of illegal migration and terrorist threats. Recent months have witnessed a number of factions competing for political legitimacy and seeking control of Libya’s cities and its infrastructure. The vacuum of effective state control has been exploited by terrorist groups such as ISIS with devastating results. The conflict is also creating a growing humanitarian crisis in much of the country. A UN-facilitated talks process is now seeking an inclusive political agreement which would lead to the formation of a government of national unity, a ceasefire and the finalisation of a new constitution for Libya. The EU is fully supportive of these efforts.

The European Council will discuss the economic situation in the EU and conclude the first phase of the 2015 European semester. While economic developments were disappointing for most of last year, we are now seeing some signs of a more positive economic outlook for Europe. The year 2015 is the first since the onset of the crisis in which all member state economies are expected to record economic growth. Importantly, this more positive economic outlook is also beginning to feed through to Europe’s labour markets. The seasonally-adjusted unemployment rate in the Union was 9.8% in January, the second consecutive month that it was back in single figures. We do, however, need to bear in mind that this figure masks significant regional variations – and that youth unemployment, in particular, remains a formidable challenge.

The committee asked me to provide a brief update on the situation in Greece. On 20 February, agreement was reached among the Finance Ministers of the euro area to extend the Greek programme by up to four months.

This is a welcome development, which demonstrates Europe’s solidarity in supporting Greece until it has regained full market access. The purpose of the extension is to allow a successful conclusion of the fifth review of the Greek programme, the disbursement of the associated funds and discussions on a possible follow-up arrangement. As part of the agreement, the Greek Government has presented its proposals for reform measures. These measures will now need to be further specified and then agreed with the institutions by the end of April. Yesterday, the Eurogroup discussed procedural issues relating to the negotiations. It was confirmed that technical negotiations between the Greek authorities and the institutions would commence tomorrow in Brussels. Ireland, together with other euro area member states, understands and empathises with the difficult situation faced by the Greek people. This is why there has been a willingness to negotiate a way forward which takes account of the realities of the situation in Greece and the political priorities of its new Government, while also respecting existing commitments.

I will return shortly to consider the European semester, but first allow me to finish on the General Affairs Council agenda. Over lunch, Ministers will discuss how the Council might contribute to a revision of the 2003 inter-institutional agreement on better law making, on which the Commission is expected to issue a proposal later this year. The objective of such a revision would be to update and enhance existing arrangements for inter-institutional co-operation, in order to improve the legislative process and, ultimately, deliver better outcomes for our citizens. While no decision will be taken at this juncture, I look forward to a productive discussion which will advance our goals of strengthening inter-institutional co-operation and delivering better regulation.

I will now focus the remainder of my statement on the European semester for 2015. The March European Council will conclude the first phase of the European semester by providing guidance to member states for submission in April of their stability programme updates, under the Stability and Growth Pact, and national reform programmes. I expect that there will be strong political reinforcement of the key priorities set out by the new Commission in the annual growth survey it presented in November – that is, a boost to investment; a renewed commitment to both national and EU-level structural reforms; and continued fiscal responsibility.

The Commission is also due to present proposals this year for an improved and updated Europe 2020 strategy. This means making sure we have the right post-crisis arrangements in place for supporting growth and jobs across Europe. The Commission’s preparations in this regard will of course be informed by the public consultation to which the present committee made a contribution in November, as was reviewed when I attended the Seanad last week.

The Commission’s proposals for a renewed Europe 2020 process have been deferred until later in the year, keeping the political focus before the June European Council on getting the new "Juncker investment plan", as it is known, up and running. Progress in establishing the European fund for strategic investments remains firmly on track. Indeed, finance Ministers are due to agree today a general approach on the draft regulation, allowing negotiations to open with the European Parliament.

On 26 February, the Commission presented a comprehensive assessment for each member state, under the 2015 cycle of the European semester. There is now a window of more than two months before draft proposals for the next round of country-specific recommendations are produced by the Commission on 19 May, for adoption subject to amendment by the Council. This is a significant procedural improvement introduced for this year’s process that is designed to support stronger national-level engagement with the Commission’s assessment, including by key stakeholders and national parliaments and committees. In Ireland’s case, the assessment in the new country report is a broadly positive one, reflecting the strength of the economic recovery under way, supporting in turn a gradual unwinding of the deep imbalances developed during the crisis period.

It is worth recalling that we are only one of five member states whose budgets were found by the Commission last November to be fully compliant with the provisions of the Stability and Growth Pact. The country report strongly commends the progress we have made in recent years, noting that Ireland was the fastest growing economy in the EU in 2014, with that growth expected to continue in the coming years. It notes in particular that recovery has been jobs rich and recognises that public sector indebtedness declined in 2014, public debt is on a downward trajectory, financial sector challenges are diminishing, external accounts have strengthened considerably and the labour market situation has improved.

The purpose of the report, while recognising progress, is to identify where further work is needed or weaknesses or imbalances remain. The Commission does this in respect of every member state. Among the areas for further work, the Commission includes the need to continue to pay attention to unemployment, especially long-term unemployment. As the committee is aware, this is a key priority for the Government. The Commission also points to the need to ensure that small to medium-sized enterprises, SMEs, can access the finance they need. In this regard, the Government has recently put in place the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland.

The report assesses progress implementing our 2014 country-specific recommendations, CSRs. As committee members will be aware, Ireland received seven CSRs last year. These covered public finances, health care spending, active labour market policies, social inclusion, access to finance, non-performing loans in the financial sector and legal services. Progress is broadly on track and consistent with policy directions already firmly established at national level.

Preparation of Ireland's national reform programme, NRP, for 2015 is under way. It will formally report on the progress in implementing our CSRs as well as progress towards our Europe 2020 targets in the areas of employment, research and development, climate change and energy, education and social inclusion. The NRP will also set out the macroeconomic context, which is further elaborated on in our stability programme update, which is due for presentation to the Commission in April.

I look forward to hearing the views of the committee on the semester process and the key priorities and challenges that might be reflected in this year's NRP. Similarly, views are being sought from a wide range of civil society stakeholders. It is important that engagement with the European semester be supported and national ownership be encouraged. Last year, my predecessor, the then Minister of State, Deputy Donohoe, presented a draft of the NRP to the committee for discussion and consideration before submission to the Commission. If the Chairman is agreeable, I would be delighted to return to the committee to discuss our draft of the NRP in the coming weeks or April. I thank members for their attention during what was a reasonably long speech and look forward to whatever comments or questions they may have.

I will go first. Today, we will limit contributions to three minutes per person because of the time constraints. I will try to keep mine to that.

I wish to raise two subjects, namely, Greece and Macedonia. Regarding Greece, many believe that the four-month programme agreed in February is starting to unwind. My understanding is that, of the emergency liquidity assistance, ELA, of €2 billion that was requested, €500 million was given and has more or less been spent and Athens is just a few days away from running out of money. The finance Minister, speaking in today's press, stated, "I can only say that we have money to pay salaries and pensions of public employees. For the rest we will see." The situation seems to be worsening and the language appears to be heating up. For example, Mr. Jeroen Dijsselbloem appeared to reject the reform proposals in Brussels yesterday. He stated, "We have to stop wasting time and really start talks seriously."

That is one side of the argument. On the other side in Greece, the defence Minister, Mr. Panos Kammenos, spoke about the possibility of Europe forcing Greece, which we have said we will not do.

He stated:

If Europe leaves us in the crisis, we will flood it with migrants, and it will be even worse for Berlin if in that wave of millions of economic migrants there will be some jihadists of the Islamic State too ... If they strike us, we will strike them.

Who said that?

That was the Greek defence Minister speaking about his colleagues across the European Union. I am concerned that we are seeing an increase in the temperature of the argument and ask the Minister of State whether he thinks the different positions are reconcilable.

In regard to the situation in Macedonia, we have previously discussed issues relating to the Balkans. We are concerned about the political situation in Macedonia where the government has jailed several journalists and the leader of the opposition who was making charges of wrongdoing against it, including eavesdropping of citizens, electoral fraud and interfering with the judiciary. The Prime Minister promised an inquiry, but concerns have been expressed that it will not be independent. When the General Affairs Council debates issues pertaining to the Balkans, I ask the Minister of State to raise these concerns. I will ensure the details are sent to his office in advance of the Council.

We have a lengthy agenda and, while I would love to discuss the issue of Greece, I will focus on the eastern partnership arrangement with Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia which we ratified as Irish Parliamentarians. Given that Europe was a contributor to the unsettling events that occurred in Kiev, Donetsk, Luhansk and elsewhere in eastern Ukraine, I ask the Minister of State for his assurance that he will speak in the best interests of these countries in order that the European Union does not repeat the mistakes it made in the past. I am conscious that Russia is viewed with differing degrees of intensity by those countries that were formerly part of the Soviet Union. Estonia and Latvia, for example, view Russia as an occupier rather than as a liberator. They also have a more intense antipathy to the Russians than those of us who never witnessed occupation, other than by the British. The key issue is to understand President Putin and the Russian Federation's attitude to what the European Union is doing in regard to these association agreements.

Will the Minister of State assure me that he will set out a distinctively Irish position on the need for dialogue with a view to understanding the fears felt throughout the Russian Federation? I am sure he is conscious that the European Union now realises, rather late in the day, that it is losing the propaganda war among, for example, Russian speakers in various countries which were formerly occupied, including, in particular, Ukraine. I understand the summit may address the issue of developing a counter-propaganda machine on behalf of the West. Perhaps the Minister of State might elaborate on how he thinks this propaganda machine would work. I ask him to convey to his counterparts in Europe that the propagation of the right-wing elements in Ukraine, including fascists, neo-fascists and ultra-nationalists, only fosters the same propaganda in Russian media that we are trying to prevent.

Therefore, it is the EU's prerogative, in trying to react to Russia's negative propaganda, to show that they are not our allies and we do not support them. In the formation of the present Government, one of the first disastrous moves it attempted was to outlaw Russian as Ukraine's second language.

We are moving into very sensitive territory. We are approaching 2017, a very important period in Russia's history. More important, I have lost friends in eastern Ukraine as a result of this debacle, and I do not want to lose friends in Moldova. Members will remember the results of the election in Moldova and how sensitive these matters are. The biggest political party is called a socialist party which is more pro-Putin and communist Russia than the official communist party. There is a very delicate balance. The people of the region must be understood if we are to keep them on the pro-European path. I appeal to the Minister to use the well-established political dialogue process which we are very good at to keep the temperature down so that we are not seen to ally ourselves with those who give propaganda to Mr. Putin.

I subscribe to Deputy Eric Byrne's views on Ukraine. In the Dáil, I have spoken in depth on Ukraine. Much of Europe was sleepwalking regarding the corrupt Ukraine regime and did not consider how Russians were being treated in Crimea and in the eastern border areas. Over the years, many of us have been raising the issue of large Russian-speaking populations being denied the right to speak their language and have it recognised and to join the police force, army and civil service. This has allowed a disenfranchised group of people to seek solace where they originally came from, namely, Russia. While I have no sympathy with Mr. Putin, I have sympathy with many of the Russian-speaking people. It has been belatedly acknowledged across Europe that many in Ukraine were completely corrupt. Some acknowledged their support for Hitler and his policies, while we sat by idly, year after year, knowing that whole groups of people, particularly the Russian speakers, were being treated badly and an outcome was inevitable. Although we have to do something, it is probably a little late for Europe to intervene now. There was no acknowledgement across Europe of the part Ukraine played in the debacle between Russia and Ukraine. While I do not agree with Mr. Putin and his tactics, I sympathise with many Russians, whom I have spoken to and met, across different European countries such as Latvia regarding how they feel they are being treated by various governments.

I read an article in Time magazine in America which reported a comment by one of the top economists that what the troika had done was completely unrealistic and asking Greece to do what they were doing was nearly impossible. The Greek debt stands at approximately €317 billion, or 170% of GDP. It is unpayable and impractical. The Greeks cannot do it. James Galbraith, who is recognised as a pretty good, reasonable economist, has said the conditions set for Greece are "not recuperative, but punitive in character". We all accept that because of the major unemployment and deprivation in Greece, there are social consequences that must be dealt with. There are tax consequences where tax was not being collected. Greece needs to create jobs in order to build the economy.

Basically, I imagine they are the three main cornerstones on which Greece will survive, that is, dealing with the social issues, tax and unemployment. I seek the views of the Minister of State in respect of this unpayable debt. If one thinks about this debt, it is 170% of GDP and while paying back what the troika and the European Union is asking of them would take 50 years, they still would be living in poverty.

I got that point. I thank Deputy Halligan.

This simply is not sustainable.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. While three minutes does not give members time to do justice to the issues involved, I have a couple of questions. Does the Minister of State agree it is important, at this sensitive time in particular, that further arming of any side in Ukraine is not considered? Britain has announced it intends to send military personnel to the region in the form of approximately 75 troops in the coming weeks. The United States has announced it will send a battalion of soldiers to train Ukrainian battalions. Does the Minister of State agree such steps towards greater militarisation are not helpful and that one should seek a demilitarisation of the process? If one learns lessons from Ireland, that was one of the successes in that regard. Will the General Affairs Council discuss this matter? While all members condemn Russia's military involvement in support of the rebels, what precisely is Ireland's position? Will Ireland seek more sanctions or what unique message will Ireland be sending to people in that region in this regard?

I have been asked to inquire of the Minister of State whether the COSAC contribution will be reflected in the updated 2020 strategy. While I would like to think the remarks regarding Greece and migration were perhaps not very sensible throwaway comments, there is a lot of anger and frustration in Greece.

The Deputy is not embarrassed by his friends-----

----- who made that statement.

Please address comments through the Chair.

There is a lot of anger in Greece in respect of what the Greek people are being put through and much blame is being placed on Frankfurt in particular. As for the talks themselves, the Minister, Deputy Noonan, has stated there is a lack of detail on the Greek side and I am told the Eurogroup meeting was fairly short. The Minister, Deputy Noonan, is quoted as saying that future negotiations on reforms will be based out of the office of the Greek Deputy Prime Minister, which again suggests the Finance Minister of Greece now is being shunted aside. However, I have read material online in which he has stated this was not the case. He was blaming this on bad journalism but it also appears to be following a narrative coming out of Ireland to the effect that there is no detail and nothing substantial is coming from the Greeks. We appear to be the only ones coming out with that line, certainly in public, and I am interested in finding out what precisely is happening in this regard.

I refer to the statement by Jean-Claude Juncker that our future as Europeans will one day involve a European army. Further statements in this regard have been made, such as when the head of NATO talked about looking forward to the day Ireland joins NATO and so on. Will the Irish Government be saying anything in respect of Mr. Juncker's wishes? Will Ireland raise its opposition to joining any European Union army in particular during this discussion on Russia? Again, I am coming from the angle that I wish to see greater demilitarisation, not militarisation and this pushes people further into corners. I apologise to the Chairman for going on.

I thank Deputy Crowe and thank all Deputies for keeping their comments to within three minutes. I invite the Minister of State to respond.

There is quite a bit to get through.

Yes. The Minister of State should work his way through as much as possible and thereafter he-----

The Chairman will blow the whistle.

----- can provide members with responses in written form.

Members wanted the Minister of State to concentrate his mind.

To come to the last question first, the issue of a European army is not a Commission competence.

Ireland's participation in a European common defence arrangement is prohibited by Article 29.4.9° of the Constitution and reinforced by the Irish protocol in the Lisbon treaty.

Several members asked about the situation in Russia and Ukraine. Part of the function of the Minsk agreement was to encourage Ukraine to introduce further reforms. Ireland's approach is to seek a broader strategy in respect of relations with Russia, rather than looking only through the prism of Ukraine. In regard to the Irish view on sanctions, our position is that we want the terms of the Minsk agreements to be upheld. We welcome, for example, recent prisoner exchanges and de-escalation, and we have always said that sanctions should be scalable. Therefore, our urging would be to encourage further de-escalation, which would lead, as a consequence, to reductions in sanctions. We are not of the view that a military solution is in existence for the problems in eastern Ukraine. That has consistently been the Irish position.

The Chairman had a question about the Republic of Macedonia. The situation there is not on the agenda for the forthcoming General Affairs Council, but I would be happy to raise the issue on his behalf and accept his helpful suggestion that a note be sent to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Certainly, the situation in the Republic of Macedonia is very worrying. I understand Commissioner Hahn recently visited there. I will be glad to raise the matter on behalf of the committee.

I have read some of the commentary by the Greek defence Minister but it was not part of our discussions. I have not seen the full text and cannot comment on his possible motivation other than to note that the broader migration issue is a concern, particularly for southern European countries. Europe's migration policy will be discussed by the EU later this year and we hope it will be done in a measured manner, taking all valid concerns into account.

In regard to developments in Greece, the issue of specific detail is being discussed today. It is not accurate to say that questions around detail are only being asked by Ireland. The Chairman remarked on the comments yesterday by the Greek finance Minister, Mr. Dijsselbloem. There is no denying that the situation in Greece is very challenging, with immediate concerns which need to be addressed in the coming months. We must see progress in the coming days. Financing is required this month to meet IMF repayments, interest payments and other financial obligations. To say there is no time to lose is an accurate assessment of where we are at. Much of the negotiations are of a very technical nature. They are ongoing today and tomorrow and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, is in attendance. We will have more detail in the coming days and it is to be hoped there will be progress and success for all concerned.

Have I covered all the points that were raised, Chairman?

The only other issue which arises relates to whether the COSAC contribution will be reflected in the updated 2020 strategy. Is the Minister of State in a position to provide an update on that matter?

We discussed that matter this morning at our internal European affairs meeting within the Department. I will obtain for the committee a specific note on the detail of what is involved. As members are aware, this is part of the broader consultative process that is ongoing at present.

I asked specific questions about Moldova, which is in a vulnerable position, and the fact that Europe is trying to develop a Russian-language radio and television service aimed at counteracting the propaganda successes of Russia.

The Deputy referred to the vote which took place in the Houses last month. It was disappointing that all parties did not support what was proposed. A process is ongoing in respect of the matter to which the Deputy refers. While we wish to see progress in many areas in accession and applicant countries, there is no doubt that propaganda is emanating from Russia. That is why moving towards a normalisation of relations between the EU and Russia is extremely important, not just in the context of Ukraine - particularly the eastern part of the country - but also with regard to a large group of countries which share the very worthwhile ambition to move towards obtaining the democratic freedoms enjoyed by those who live in member states of the European Union. Ireland will seek to support all such countries in whatever way possible. As the committee will be aware, further discussions involving the Eastern Partnership are due to take place in Riga on 21 May and these will place greater focus and emphasis on all of the relevant matters.

We look forward to those discussions taking place. I thank the Minister of State for coming before us and for answering the comprehensive list of questions put to him.

It has been a pleasure.

That brings to an end the first session of this meeting. We will suspend proceedings for a couple of minutes in order to allow the Minister of State and his officials to leave and our next guest, Sir Bill Cash, to come before us.

Sitting suspended at 2.55 p.m. and resumed at 3 p.m.
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