JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE debate -
Wednesday, 19 Mar 2003

Vol. 1 No. 5

Business of Joint Committee.

Chairman

I want to get agreement on our approach to today's business. Three groups have been invited to make a presentation to the committee this morning - the Irish Council for Civil Liberties; a group called, The Wheel; a network of groups for the voluntary and community sector, and the One in Four group. I suggest we limit each group's presentation and the questions to approximately half an hour per group.

Following the presentations, I suggest the committee has a brief discussion on the format of a report we may present subsequently. We will have an information briefing session on the Bill with Department of Finance officials at 4 p.m. If we meet at about 3.45 p.m. we may be able to complete our report. If possible, I would like to conclude the committee's business on that matter this afternoon because the Bill is due before the Seanad tomorrow and Second Stage will be taken in the Dáil next week.

Deputy Burton

Following the press coverage given to the hearings last Thursday, a number of other organisations contacted me over the weekend to express a strong interest in different elements of the Bill. This committee convened these hearings almost on an ad hoc basis in that we only heard of the Bill two weeks ago. However, if important organisations want to raise issues with us, this committee would remain open to doing that. For instance, over the weekend the Irish Congress of Trade Unions issued a statement opposing the changes in the Bill, as have a number of other substantial and representative organisations in public life. However, the executives or governing structures of those organisations have had little chance to respond because the Bill was brought forward so quickly. We should remain open to hearing further submissions if they arise.

Chairman

I understand what the Deputy is saying but we carried out a useful task on the last occasion, and hopefully this morning, in having the Secretary General and the Information Commissioner before the committee. In terms of what we have done, I would be keen to lay a report from this joint committee before the Houses of the Oireachtas, in other words, not to hold up that process. The select committee is due to take Committee Stage at the beginning of April. If other groups want to come forward to be heard we can invite them in on another day before Committee Stage of the Bill is taken. Second Stage in the Dáil is scheduled for 25 and 27 March and there is a request from the Department of Finance for us to take Committee Stage on Tuesday, 1 April. I suggest we move that on a day or so and if any groups want to come forward, we can meet them at the beginning of that week, perhaps on the Tuesday, if there is a wish to do so.

Deputy R. Bruton

The real problem is the unrealistic schedule the Government is trying to impose on the Bill. The hearings are important and we should give people who have insights an opportunity to express them. There is no point in either the committee or groups coming in here thinking they are having a meaningful input if the Government is determined to push ahead according to these schedules and not accept amendments on which we are working.

I would welcome lengthy hearings but there has not been a response from Government on what it would like to see happen. It would be better if we had a proper mandate from the Dáil because we could take our time and do a proper job. I know that is not in your control, Chairman, but it is frustrating, both for groups coming in here and for ourselves.

Chairman

The point is well made and to some extent it is outside our control. If the legislation is proceeding on a short timescale there is little point in us holding hearings that are not being taken into consideration. The point will come where we will have to say that we would like to hear views but the Government will not be listening, or whatever. I take the Deputy's point. Perhaps we will hold open the question of having further meetings. If we believe they serve a useful purpose in the debate and the legislation we should do it. However, if they will not achieve anything, perhaps we should be up-front and recognise that. I think that is what the Deputy is saying.

I propose that we move on to the three presentations. Each group will have approximately 30 minutes to make its presentation, at the conclusion of which we might discuss the issues we started to touch on. This would include the format of a report on the work we have carried out to date, with a view to completing that this afternoon, if possible, and to lay it before the Houses as soon as possible.