Unfortunately, some of today's meeting overlaps with foreign affairs Question Time in the Dáil which starts at 3.15 p.m. I hope to have most of our business well under way by that time.
Business of Joint Committee.
I wish to say something on that point and I will not hold up the meeting. I understand it is intended to hold all meetings of the committee on Tuesdays at 2 p.m. Both Houses commence business at 2.30 p.m. and I have to be in the Seanad Chamber at 2.20 p.m. This, obviously, presents difficulties for me in attending the committee. Perhaps everybody will be delighted by this.
I wish to make a similar point. One has to prepare for supplementaries on foreign affairs Question Time as priority questions will only have been tabled late in the day. There are three foreign affairs items up for discussion this afternoon including the topic of the upcoming European Council meeting. Perhaps when foreign affairs Question Time is on it may be possible to dovetail it with the committee because of the difficulties presented to members?
There is difficulty in getting accommodation at a particular time. We were allocated the room at this time because of the demands of other committees. As we discussed at an earlier meeting, the number of committee rooms is inadequate. I will try to do as Deputy Mitchell suggests.
I will not be able to attend any Tuesday.
We will have to consider the matter and see what we can do.
I understood there was an option of holding the meeting at 11 o'clock today.
That would be great.
We should give priority to the availability of members. We could even meet in a room without all these facilities.
That may not suit most members. We will see what the situation is; there is a meeting scheduled for tomorrow at 11 o'clock.
I would have some difficulty in getting up from Wexford in time for an earlier meeting. Even a 2 p.m. start presents difficulties with traffic as it is.
I accept that. The minutes of the meeting held on 11 December were circulated with the agenda. Are the minutes in order? Are there any matters arising?
I have given some consideration to this matter since the last meeting and believe the committee should consider sending a delegation to Iraq. This should be done as soon as possible because we are drifting towards war. After today's foreign affairs questions we will not have any further opportunity to raise this matter in the Dáil or Seanad until quite late in February. The most effective visit we had was to Jordan. One has to go to Jordan anyway to travel from Amman to Baghdad. We met the Jordanian foreign affairs committee on one occasion and it was particularly informative as Jordan is a neighbouring country. It has a certain multi-ethnic composition as well. It would be seen to be more important there than it would here in that the world media is in Iraq at present. I am conscious that Ireland is coming to the end of its term on the Security Council at the end of December. It would be a very important action for us to send a delegation to Iraq as soon as possible and I propose we do so.
I second that proposal and it is not from the desire of a trip to that country. America wants war and it does not matter what anybody says. It merely pretends to look at the UN dossiers. It wants war and we are all caught in the slipstream.
I do not have any difficulty with a deputation going to Iraq. However, I am concerned that it would turn into anti-Americanism. There is also the danger that it would become a propaganda exercise for the Iraqi regime. If the visit is properly prepared with access to all areas then I would not have any difficulty with the proposal.
Deputy Higgins has asked that we discuss the Iraqi situation in this committee.
I do not have any difficulty with what Deputy Mitchell suggests. There is a fair way of doing this. There are international agencies such as UNICEF and other bodies and it can be properly composed. This is the kind of thing one can do without requiring a long discussion. Most of us could make our minds up quickly on it and I think we should do so. I do not want it discussed at the end of the January, with a decision taken in February to travel to Iraq in March when war is under way. I propose that we go.
I second the proposal.
I also support this proposal. The delegation would be quite capable of ensuring it is not manipulated for propaganda purposes. I have been there and it is not a holiday. It is not a trip that members will queue up to go on seeking a good time. It is pretty tough; people are carted across the desert at 100 mph, the food is awful and most of us on the previous trip got sick. We were reduced to expenses of about £1.50 per day because the Department of Foreign Affairs slavishly followed the precedent set by the British Foreign Office as it wants to discourage people from going. I have other commitments and will not go on this trip, but it would be dreadful were people to be financially penalised in this way. One is literally risking life and limb, one cannot get insurance for travelling across the desert and one is then penalised financially. It is time the Department woke up to this and stopped slavishly following British Foreign Office policy. It is interesting that there has been all-party support for this. It is a proposal that should be seriously entertained.
All our hearts are in the same place on this. Ireland has made strong representations at the Security Council. Our understanding is that we have had a strong and balancing influence there. If it is the wish of the committee to make this trip, we will examine the possibilities in this regard and report back at the next meeting.
I fully support what Deputy Higgins said. Is there any way other than the one Senator Norris suggested of getting into Iraq? I saw the visit to Iraq of actor Sean Penn on television and it obviously was a harrowing experience.
Frankly, no.
Ethiopia, where 10 to 14 million people now face famine, is also going through a harrowing experience. Let us look at these two matters and decide how to handle them.
People will suggest there are different ways of going to Iraq. Inevitably, one will end up flying to Amman from which it is a 12 hour journey by jeep across the desert to Baghdad. I did not find it as harrowing as Senator Norris.
Perhaps Deputy Higgins is made of stronger stuff.
I support the proposal because I think it is the right thing to do. This is an urgent matter. If it is left until after Christmas it could prove difficult to convene the committee and organise anything.
We have pencilled in five meetings in January.