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JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Sub-Committee on Human Rights) debate -
Wednesday, 24 Nov 2004

Human Rights in Kosovo: Presentation.

I welcome the delegation from the Kosovo Action Network who are here at the request of Ms Valerie Hughes of the Kosovo Ireland Solidarity Group. Let me introduce Mr. Albin Kurti, Mr. Milot Cakaj, Ms Sonja Biserko and Ms Siobhan Cleary. They will discuss the human rights situation in their region. Ms Siobhan Cleary is involved with the Kosovo Action Network.

I draw the attention of witnesses to the fact that members of this committee have absolute privilege, but that same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee.

Ms Sonja Biserko

I apologise for my voice which has been affected by the climate. I thank the committee for inviting our group to appear before it to give it some idea of what is now happening in the Balkans, after what happened on 5 October.

The Balkans has entered the process of democratisation, facing new problems and needs the support of the west, especially the EU in order to finalise the regional crisis and to enable it to catch up with other countries that have joined the European Union. In this regard, Serbia presents a major problem to the region because of its pending problems with Kosovo, Montenegro and co-operation with the tribunal. It will take an international effort and presence to resolve the issues. Other problems arise from the transition to a market economy from the post communist era, the consequences of war and problems associated with nationalities and minorities. The EU, Council of Europe and NATO have provided a framework which should help in the process towards European integration. I think it is very important for Serbia to create a new coalition in civil society to help it meet its obligation in the transition to the market economy and in dealing with the status of Kosovo and Montenegro. At this time Kosovo presents a key challenge to the stability of the Balkans. The mantra of standards before status, which has been repeated for four years, is not the framework which can guarantee a stable and peaceful transition. In my view, the legitimate approach is to give guarantees to minorities, which means conditional independence, as has been already mentioned by the Independent Commission for Kosovo. Both sides must reach a consensus on independence for Kosovo and this must be worked through with the help of the international community or the EU.

Unfortunately Belgrade's policy to date has been based more or less on partition. Serbia has not been a helpful partner over the past five years. Its policy towards Kosovo has been mostly to undermine international efforts, to demonise Albanians and to keep Serbs from Kosovo out of institutions. In fact, they built up a parallel society in northern Kosovo with partition in mind.

The big problem of Kosovo is underdevelopment and the general economic stalemate which has not been dealt with over the past four years. This has occurred because of the problems which arise out of the slow process of privatisation and a lack of will in the international community to deal with these key issues.

The outbreak of inter-communal hostilities in March last was followed by a decision of the international community to resolve the Kosovo status in 2005 or 2006. This gives us a new possibility to create an agenda for Kosovo and this should be carefully designed. Unfortunately the Serbian side is still portraying Kosovars as a potential terrorist movement throughout the region. I am afraid that at present Belgrade's policy is focused on creating new instabilities which will be helped probably by some ethnic groups in Kosovo.

Serbia is also facing problems which became clear after the assassination of Prime Minister Djindic, who was a political moderniser of the country and who managed to focus on reform and transition. This, and especially his willingness to co-operate with the Hague, was the reason for his removal. As the committee will be aware, he handed over about 15 people, primarily Milosevic, who otherwise would still be in command of political life in Serbia. His going to the Hague has had an enormous impact on the political dynamics in Serbia. After his removal and the elections of December last, it became quite clear that Serbia's new political landscape created continuity with the time of Milosevic and that his forces have come back and are now dictating dynamics in the society. This is also a revival of ultra-nationalism, which is still present in all Serbian institutions. This reflects especially on the issue of minorities within Serbia which, apart from Kosovo and Montenegro, is also an unresolved issue.

The other unresolved issue is the constitution of Serbia, which means that there is no consensus on what kind of state Serbia should be. That means that the prevailing political culture of a centralised and unitary state is still dominant and that the ethnic minority issue will face problems. Serbia passed a minority law a few years ago but unfortunately there is a lack of political will, of social atmosphere and a lack of finance to proceed with this law. Ethnic incidents which we had been facing in Serbia also reflect an unwillingness to deal with the minority issue and a lack of a pro-active stance on the minority issue.

One of the biggest problems of the society is the deep denial of its primary responsibility for war crimes over the past decade. In this respect it is also important to note that this government, with Prime Minister Vojslav Kostunica, is not co-operating with the Hague. They are refusing to do that. Unfortunately there is a complete stalemate in this respect and the promotion of individuals such as Mladic, Karadzic and Seselj is still going on. For instance, at an international book fair a Karadzic book stole the show. It was one of the main events in society. So was the promotion of the book of Dobrica Cosic, one of the most influential figures from the academic sphere, on the current political dynamics of the society.

Organised crime, which has played an enormously important role during the decade, is still playing an important role in the society. Power from the political sphere has moved to the economic sphere, which is mostly conducted by Milosevic's cronies or tycoons who rose from this era. In short, this is a major problem. As I mentioned, there needs to be a new coalition for this pro-European agenda which, at present, can be created only with the Civic Society, some opposition parties which are pro-European and also the Democratic Party, which is one of the biggest parties in the country and the only party with a pro-European orientation. Unfortunately the Serbian President, Boris Tadic, is not taking up the agenda of Djindic. He is closer to Prime Minister Kostunica. Nevertheless, much can be done in this sphere.

The army still has a important impact on society. It has never been under the control of the civic society. Recent developments, including the murder of two young soldiers, have opened up the issue of the army. At present, it is not quite clear whether it will be possible to continue in the direction of putting the army under civic control. However, its popular support has fallen by 30% over the past 40 days, as a result of this murder but also many other incidents which are coming into the open. Many parents are coming with their stories about how their boys have been treated in the army. However, the intelligence service is also having an important impact on the society. At present the army and its intelligence services may not be able to create a wider conflict in the region but they can still destabilise the society itself and also play an important role in possible Kosovo dynamics over the next few months.

Mr. Albin Kurti

I thank you for the opportunity to speak to the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. There are five important points in our presentation. The present situation in Kosovo demands a radical reappraisal of policies being pursued by the international community and in particular the EU. It is wrong to consider that the process of disintegration of former Yugoslavia has ended. The EU-imposed Union of Serbia and Montenegro represents an improvisation and it lacks the consent of the people. It also has proven to be ineffective. UN Resolution 1244 and the political system and process carried by UNMIK in Kosovo are not in compliance with the will of the people. The under-development and negative political, social and economic trends are deepening the crisis and constitute a threat of renewal of riots and outbursts of violence.

Unemployment in Kosovo is running at57.1%. It is usually long term and is especially prevalent among the youth and women. Poverty is widespread. In 2000 12% of the population was extremely poor. According to the World Bank report, almost another 40%, nearly 1 million people, were poor in the autumn of 2000. GDP per capita in Kosovo in 2003 was €642, this is 33 times less than in Germany. The trade deficit is huge. Export/import coverage was only 3.9%. Between 1999 and 2003 the international community spent approximately €1.96 billion in Kosovo. Another €2.2 billion, which came from the diaspora, was mainly spent on the reconstruction of 120,000 houses destroyed by the Yugoslav army during the war and on meeting basic day-to-day needs of the population. There has been no significant investment in the meantime. Foreign direct investment in the previous four years was less than €30 million, of which the major part went to the banking sector.

The insistence of the international community and the EU on standards before status is not the solution and is exacerbating tensions. This concept is a consequence of the lack of vision of UNMIK for Kosovo and its future. It was a device merely to buy time. Likewise since its origin, the concept of standards before status is patronising towards the people of Kosovo and their representatives. Finally it is a deadlock. In order to have more competence and power, one is supposed to fulfil standards that cannot be accomplished without having the competencies and the resources.

The problems of Kosovo are inextricably linked with the continued promotion and ascendancy of the ultra-nationalist agenda in Serbia. It is this policy of Serbia that manipulates and uses the Serb minority in Kosovo as a tool. The current policies of the international community and the European Union are, in effect, encouraging aspirations in Belgrade towards ethnic partition, which will have disastrous consequences for Kosovo and the wider region. The international community, and especially the EU, must adopt a stronger policy against the Serbian establishment if there is to be any hope of lasting peace in Kosovo and the wider region.

The status of Kosovo must be resolved immediately. UNMIK is paradoxically an interim administration without a deadline. UNMIK, which does not account to people in institutions in Kosovo, must have a time limit for its mission. This should coincide with the referendum for Kosovo with a recognised right for sovereign determination for the people of Kosovo in order to ensure a just and sustainable solution. The status of Kosovo is a political problem that has a democratic solution which respects the will of the people of Kosovo. At the same time, a close international monitoring of minority rights should take place.

There are also other immediate needs for Kosovo. First is the return of approximately 700 bodies of Kosovars still held in Belgrade and the provision of information on the 3,000 still missing since the war. It is in the secret dossier of the police and military in Serbia where to a large extent the truth is being buried. We believe that to achieve results, the EU must apply pressure and conditions to the aid and loans to Serbia.

We are seeking the return of refugees to their homes and a radical programme of investment and development, in particular in civil society, in the economy and in education. Property rights should not be linked with sovereignty, as is being done. We need universities such as the one in Tetova in Macedonia which will create a professional cadre who will be able to meet the challenges of EU integration and also integrate the communities.

In response to the comment by Mr. Kurti on investment, nobody will invest unless there is a guarantee of stability. Certainly nobody in the private sector will take a chance. The recent elections in Kosovo were deemed by the international community to be fair and equitable. Why did the whole Kosovo Serb community boycott that election?

Mr. Kurti

Simply because Belgrade said so. The Serb minority in Kosovo does not have its own political elite. It is Belgrade who decides for them all the time. During the past five years, the international community has done almost nothing to encourage the Serb minority in Kosovo to have their own independent representatives. When UNMIK seeks the opinion of Serbs in Kosovo, it addresses the question to Belgrade. I think this is wrong. The role played by Belgrade, Mr. Kostunica and the church in convincing the Serbs in Kosovo not to vote in the recent elections resulted in the Serbs boycotting the system. It is a political bargain.

Does it not make their position worse to have no representatives? By debarring themselves from voting, they are debarring themselves from representation.

Mr. Kurti

Yes, the Deputy is right. We must understand it from the perspective of Belgrade, which wants the partition of Kosovo. They do not recognise the system and do not want to participate in it because they want a territorial division. When the final status of Kosovo is open for discussion, they want it partitioned.

I apologise for being late, I was at another meeting. If one were to make an assumption about the future, how would the Serb minority in Kosovo be involved in Government and administration, or is your position that there is not the possibility of a separate identity for the Kosovo Serbs and the general population of Serbia?

On the insistence by the international community on standards before status, I would have some sympathy for the way Kosovars feel about the idea of an external force imposing its standards on another country. What specifically does Mr. Kurti find unattainable or unacceptable? Does Mr. Kurti have a separate set of standards that would serve as an alternative to those imposed by the international community? On the question of the status of Kosovo, is the preference for independence, full sovereignty, autonomy or a bilateral arrangement with Serbia?

Mr. Kurti

Our approach is to start with what all the communities in Kosovo have in common, with the emphasis on basic human rights, jobs, social well-being and freedom. In its approach in the past five years, UNMIK tried to create multi-ethnicity by focusing on the different ethnicity of institutions. I believe that was wrong. To integrate people, we must start from what they have in common, and initiate development, provide good quality education, build factories and create opportunities for investment in Kosovo. That was not done because when privatisation started, property rights were linked with sovereignty.

Privatisation stopped and started several times and everybody became discouraged. In the beginning many Albanians, including the diaspora, wanted to invest in the country, but now nobody wants to invest in Kosovo, and that is a problem. We believe that if Albanians, Serbs and Roma worked together in a factory, they would communicate and co-operate because they would have a perspective in their lives. Organised crime is multi-ethnic precisely because of what is at stake. With significant unemployment and major under-development, integration is very difficult.

The concept of standards before status is very patronising and the problem is that people are not motivated to fulfil standards for unknown status. If the status was defined, for example as independence, self-determination after a year, people would be motivated by the goal. At present, they are not. Greater numbers of institutions, politicians and diplomats throughout Europe now admit that this concept has failed and from the very beginning was made merely to buy time due to the lack of vision of UNMIK in Kosovo

Regarding final status, the best solution would be a time limit for UNMIK and at the same time a referendum for Kosovo as a political entity, not ethnic self-determination but self-determination for Kosovo in the borders of the constitution of 1974.

I can see the point Mr. Kurti is making for some kind of foreign investment, which mainly would be Albanian sourced. It is predicated on privatisation. I think the way he uses the term privatisation is not the way we use it normally. I can see the difference.

Does Mr. Kurti see a change coming, with the return of people from the different communities? He mentioned it in his presentation. That is one of the saddest parts. The figures are very low, are they not?

Mr. Kurti

It is precisely the under-development that discourages people from returning. Many Serbs in Serbia do not want to return. The problem is that they would not have a workplace in Kosovo to which to return. It is also connected with development. In the first two years, 1999 and 2000, the UNMIK/KFOR international structure in Kosovo played a good role in peace-building, peacekeeping, reconstruction and the emergency phase aid. Subsequently Kosovo was supposed to enter a development phase and there we failed. Now all the efforts are put into preserving the status quo but it is the status quo for UNMIK only, not for other people. We are undergoing a regression.

Is the argument you are making that the economic agenda must come to the fore? Do you believe that everything will follow economic progress?

Mr. Kurti

There should be a combined strategy: a process for resolution of final status; a time limit for UNMIK, which should not be an interim administration without a deadline; and a parallel strategic plan for development in the economy, education and civil society. These latter two elements do not exclude each other but one cannot have any kind of plan without having a time limit for UNMIK. UNMIK knows how to conduct conferences, seminars, training, etc., but has no development plan. UNMIK goes by inertia. Without having a time limit, we cannot develop simultaneously any kind of strategy that would match an exit strategy for UNMIK.

Ms Biserko

I want to add something from the Serbian point of view. Serbia is not interested in having Kosovo back. They want partition. Therefore the democratisation of Serbia is also imperative for the region because it plays a central strategic role in the region. In this respect I agree with Mr. Kurti but there also needs to be an exit strategy for Serbia, not only regarding the issues I mentioned but also regarding the development of Serbia. Foreign investment is not forthcoming, exactly because of the lack of stability which has been pointed out, and it will not happen as long as the Kosovo issue is frozen in this way. The issues must be treated in parallel: the exit strategy for Serbia and the agenda for Kosovo mentioned by Mr. Kurti.

I am glad that Ms Biserko has raised this question of Serbia. Is not Serbia the key to all of this? Serbians are in severe difficulty with the European Union over the question of the return of war crimes perpetrators to the Hague. It seems there is an ultra-nationalist government in Serbia. I am sure Mr. Kurti and Ms Biserko already know that as long as there is that sentiment within Serbia, there is little chance that the European Union or the United Nations will address the question of the final status. Being blunt about it, that is the biggest single difficulty. Stability in the region is what the UN will look for before it does anything else. I realise that is not helpful to our visitors.

As both Mr. Kurti and Ms Biserko have an impressive record on human rights, would they not agree that there is a human rights dimension to what is going on in Kosovo that needs to be addressed? I noted from the various engagements that both of them have had that there is an absence of the one body in Europe responsible for human rights, that is, the Council of Europe. It seems they have not engaged with the Council of Europe at all, at least not according to the briefing documents available to us. They have met everybody else.

I am not sure whether they are aware that a rapporteur has been appointed by the Council of Europe Committee on Human Rights and Legal Affairs. The resulting report on human rights violations in Kosovo is to be presented to the parliamentary assembly. The rapporteur is an English MP. In fact, I attended the meeting last week in Paris where he put forward the first elements of the report for adoption by the committee. Unfortunately I walked out of the meeting without taking a copy with me, much to my frustration and annoyance because there was much in it that I would like to have the opportunity of raising with today's guests.

Is it not true that the human rights dimension to their ongoing struggle is not being addressed by UNMIK? In fact, it has been given a minimal role in the mandate that the UN has given to UNMIK operating in Kosovo. It relates to protection of human rights only but does not go beyond that. I am not an expert in this area. From what I can gather, it seems there is not any great emphasis on human rights within Kosovo by UNMIK. It seems UNMIK's emphasis is more on institutional and economic development.

I take the role of devil's advocate here. What if the Serbian minority feels it has no place in Kosovo or that it is no longer a warm house, to use a term coined in Northern Ireland by a Unionist? The parallels between Northern Ireland and Kosovo are acute. It is rather ironic that the term "a warm house" was coined by a Unionist, who stated that Northern Ireland was no longer a warm house for Unionists. Could it not be said that Kosovo is not a warm house for Kosovo Serbs, that they do not identify with the current structures? The elections, in so far as they go, are fine. I know they were carried out fairly and were democratic. As was raised earlier, however, there was no Serbian input whatsoever as far as I am aware and therefore it is not really representative.

I am not trying to be in any way negative. How will our visitors address all these issues, the human rights issues in Kosovo and this question of the Serbs who do not seem to want to have any part whatsoever in the ideal of an Kosovo Albanian state? Surely the emphasis should be on getting Serbia to get its act together, that the pressure currently being put on Serbia, particularly by the EU, should be maintained. If there is a change of administration or sentiment in Serbia, that is the best hope our visitors have for an achievement of the final status. I do not see any movement towards the resolution of final status in the short term. That is my view and they may correct me if I am wrong.

Ms Biserko

The burden for Serbia is equally Kosovo and Montenegro and it is kidnapping the energy from traditional reforms. In a way it is also keeping down the society because whenever they cannot do something, they open up the issue of Kosovo and Montenegro. If deprived of these two problems, Serbia would then focus on its own problems. Unfortunately all these problems are on the agenda at once because for a decade nothing has been done on minorities, internal tradition, constitutional rights, etc.

I agree with Senator Mooney that Serbia is the place to look to achieve change. Unfortunately the current government is against European integration and co-operation with the Hague. This is a great problem for us. This is why I think that support to the Civic Society and creating some kind of coalition for this new agenda would be of great help to us. One may expect very little from the current political sphere.

There must be some kind of new strategy towards Serbia, like it was before 5 October. It was a much broader coalition because Milosevic was the only issue. Now it is quite different and a coalition would probably be different. Since the problems are different, the agenda is different — traditional reforms, co-operation with the Hague, etc. I am afraid that after 5 October the international community has given up the Civic Society because they think the priority is the state and the institutions, which is correct. Having such a weak government, however, we need the help of Civic Society, especially in voicing such sensitive issues as war crimes. We need the sub-committee's help in this field.

How does Ms Biserko see that help being practically delivered? This is interesting. She is speaking about the reconstitution and strengthening of the civil society in Serbia. I take the point she is making when she says she needs our assistance. Let us agree that there is a need for a new approach at the level of the international community, but how can people help practically?

Ms Biserko

A coalition of the NGOs throughout the country, some of the media and some of the parties could explain why co-operation with the Hague is necessary, why Kosovo's status should be something along the lines to which we referred and other issues. We have no access to media whatsoever. There is a kind of consensus to marginalise all dissenting voices regarding any of these issues on the agenda. We must break this silence and this is where we need help.

Senator Mooney took the Chair.

I apologise for the absence of the Chairman. He has another commitment. He will be kept aware of developments.

Do you see any change of sentiment in Serbia? Looking at it from the outside, the perception is that the Serbs, in general, are an ultra-nationalist community who jealously guard the right to control Kosovo. It goes back to the 14th century and arises from Serbian mythology rather than historical fact. Mythology, as we all will be aware, is a much more potent force than historical fact.

Do you see any underlying sentiment within the Serbian civic society towards a change of attitude? It seems the Serbs have hardened their view against the EU, especially in light of the decision not to pursue Mladic, Karadzic and the others. Unless they do that, they will be isolated.

Ms Biserko

I understand that. The Kosovo issue has been an instrument to start the Yugoslav crisis because it is so irrational and emotional. It was quite clear from the beginning that the Serbs gave up Kosovo. This strategy to partition the northern part of Kosovo is a face-saving exercise. It has nothing to do with Kosovo as such. They still keep this issue open in the same way. Therefore the wider public in Serbia is quite aware that Kosovo is lost.

The current nationalism is mostly bred by bureaucracy and national institutions. The media also did nothing to de-brief the nation. There has been no breakthrough allowing for different voices who would possibly opt for the EU or for any of these issues which are on the agenda for Serbia. We need help in de-legitimising some of these institutions to make a breakthrough. We are now in a vicious circle. The EU will not help because Karadzic and Mladic were not transferred to the Hague and we are stuck with all these issues. There needs to be a strategy of breakthrough, involving perhaps this coalition of the Civic Society and some other parties, and helping some of the media, as the international community did before 5 October. This is exactly what they did then. All that occurred was the removal of Milosevic. We are left with the same deeply nationalistic society. Nothing has been done to de-brief the nation.

I am afraid the international community believes that the removal of Milosevic signalled an end to the problems of Serbia. We are just starting to deal with these problems. The legacy of Milosevic is very deep.

To take up Deputy Michael Higgins's point, what practical help would you see this committee giving in a parliamentary context to advance your agenda?

Ms Biserko

There are two lines, the media line and the Civic Society. There was a coalition before 5 October. In many ways it was helped and organised from outside, either by America or the EU. The committee should look at this Civic Society. Although it failed in many respects over the past four years because it suffers from the same problem as the whole society, people are still interested in improving their lives. This is a great motivation. At present we do not have a political mobiliser like Djindic and there needs to be some kind of replacement for that.

Is Kosovo still looking for the leaders?

Ms Biserko

We have a few people who could be engaged in that but we need some kind of coalition which would be recognised by the EU. To date, the help to this sector has been marginal. They hoped, and there were some signals during Djindic's time, that the country would move. For instance, the Swiss Government paid enormous money for educational reform and it was successful, but now all these people are removed and the reform has been stopped. One must transfer something to the Civic Society to be able to keep alive this idea of reform of education, which is the key for the future of Serbia.

I thank you all for taking the time to come and talk to us and to exchange views on what is a very intractable problem. I am sure I speak for all of my colleagues when I say that we would have the greatest of sympathy and understanding for the trauma that your country has been going through over the past number of years. It is important that a forum like this in a democratic country should be made aware on a regular basis of the difficulties you face.

The committee does not have the ability to wave a magic wand and make all of the bad things disappear. Ireland, as you will be aware, is involved with UNMIK through the United Nations. There are over 200 Irish troops serving in Kosovo and there would be real interest in what is happening there which, because of the Irish participation, would be more than the normal interest.

Within the EU, the Irish position would be strongly supportive of the view that the Serbs should comply with the Hague tribunal and that they are dragging their feet in that regard. There would be an awareness here that the Serbian political establishment may have lost its political ideologue but the sentiment remains the same, as is evident from her actions, and Kostunica was not the panacea. There would be a general awareness here but it is important that courageous people such as yourselves, who take a public stand, should have an opportunity to convey your sense of what the future holds. We are all grateful to you for that.

The sub-committee adjourned at 12.50 p.m. sine die.

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