JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Sub-Committee on Human Rights) debate -
Tuesday, 16 Dec 2008

Business of Sub-Committee.

Acting Chairman (Senator Mark Daly)

I ask members to ensure mobile phones are switched off as they interfere with the recording system. The minutes of the meeting of 18 November have been circulated. Are they agreed? Agreed.

We have two motions before the sub-committee from Deputy Higgins and Senator Norris. The Senator is not present yet. We are not supposed to deal with the motion from Deputy Higgins as we are supposed to receive it five days in advance. However, the motion concerns the disappearance of Jestina Mukoko. This is a serious matter and I ask the Deputy to address it.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

My concern is that the briefing note from the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs suggests that officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs both in Dublin and Pretoria are continuing to monitor the case closely and will do all in their power to secure the immediate release of Ms Mukoko. At the time of tabling the motion it was not clear if she was alive. The circumstances in which she was abducted from her place of residence were such that she was taken away without her reading glasses and she was in her nightdress. Those associated with her were very concerned about her welfare. I must declare an interest in that my daughter works in the advocacy section of Trócaire. Ms Mukoko visited that organisation last year and people there are very concerned.

I ask members to bear with me while I say something very important about my orientation towards developing foreign policy on behalf of the Labour Party. I take very seriously the change made in 2005 at the General Assembly when the duty to protect was established by the international community. It posed a great challenge to those of us used to formulation of foreign policy based on sovereignty taken uncritically. From that moment on sovereignty had to be taken critically because the international community had accepted a duty to protect basic rights. We have no guarantee, not just on Ms Mukoko, but on other human rights practitioners in Zimbabwe.

I am very happy that the Department of Foreign Affairs is active on our behalf but it is necessary for EU Foreign Ministers and others who have contact with the African Union to individually and collectively make a demand on the Zimbabwean Government without introducing a dimension of conditionality. We have close relationships with other African countries for other reasons, for example, we have a very good relationship with South Africa. A very brave person has come to Ireland and addressed a seminar. We have been left in the position where we are unable to say unequivocally whether she is alive, not to speak of her being free. This is a point on which we should take a stand. That is why I tabled the motion. This is the first available opportunity to discuss a cross-party motion.

I propose the resolution that the sub-committee proposed to the general committee, that it ask the Government to make contact with the foreign ministries of other EU and African Union member states to condemn the actions of the Zimbabwean Government and the circumstances in which Ms Mukoko was dragged away, to demand her immediate release and the restoration of her freedom to enable her to continue her human rights work.

Senator Ivor Callely took the Chair.

Chairman

I will call Deputy Costello and Senator Daly. I concur with what has been said. I suggest a draft statement, which might help Deputy Costello and Senator Daly in their contributions, which would read:

The Oireachtas Sub-Committee on Human Rights calls on the Irish Government, our EU colleagues and on the governments of Southern African Development Community countries to demand the safe return to her home of Jestina Mukoko. Ms Mukoko, the director of the Zimbabwe Peace Project and a key partner of Trócaire, was abducted from her home on 3 December. Ms Mukoko visited the House earlier this year to help mark Africa day. The friends she made during her visit will not let this total abuse of her human rights go unnoticed.

I was thinking of saying something to that effect and asking the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs to make a joint statement with us embroidering that statement into it.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

I would add to it the words, "and the restoration of freedom to practice her work on human rights".

Chairman

We will try to include them at the end of the statement.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

Otherwise she would be under house arrest.

Chairman

We can rejig the words, "this total abuse of her human rights", to accommodate the Deputy's suggestion. I will ask the sub-committee's policy adviser, Ms Emer Deane, to do this. I thought it might be helpful if I said this before Deputy Costello speaks.

Deputy Joe Costello

I thank the Chairman. The motion is roughly along the lines of one with which I would be happy. The amendment suggested by Deputy Higgins might go one step beyond it. It is generally recognised that a stroke of a pen is all that would be required for South Africa to secure her release or to impact much more beneficially on events in Zimbabwe. It would be no harm to invite the South African ambassador to the sub-committee to discuss the issue with the broader issues because South Africa is the kingpin regarding action in Zimbabwe. The two countries have a traditional connection dating back to the time of apartheid and the unilateral declaration of independence, UDI, in Zimbabwe. South Africa is in a position to effectively exercise its influence by whatever mechanism it chooses. It holds the key to a solution to the specific problem, as well as the broader crisis.

I spoke at the Zimbabwe protest last Saturday outside Leinster House. The Zimbabwean people who have come to this country, been granted asylum and are working here have organised themselves to protest against the crisis in their country. They were very adamant and strong on the issue of Ms Mukoko. They strongly believe South Africa holds the key to resolving the issue and that the African Union is the body to take action. The European Union can also use its influence in that respect. The issue was raised, although not by Ireland, at the summit of the Heads of State last week when the case of Ms Mukoko was mentioned. It has moved beyond these shores, which she visited.

The issue of Zimbabwe is broader than the particular problem with which we are dealing. Protection of human rights is a major issue. There is always a significant derogation of human rights in crises. The crisis in Zimbabwe borders on genocide where one megalomaniac wants to hold onto power at all costs and will not share it. That is the context in which the political, humanitarian and food crisis and the cholera epidemic are happening in a country that was once the bread basket of Africa. Irish Jesuits educated Robert Mugabe, the man causing the trouble, and they have a lot to answer for. Because we have such a long connection with the country and its people, it is right that this country and Parliament should be at the forefront in asserting the supremacy of human rights.

Senator Mark Daly

Deputy Costello has beaten me to the punch. South Africa has the call on this issue and while we should write to all those who have been mentioned, if we are to write to anybody, it should be the South African Government, the kingmaker in the region. If it put in the appropriate word, we would see better action. May we write to them directly?

Chairman

We write to the ambassador.

Senator Mark Daly

I suggest that we do so.

Chairman

Letters can be responded to or ignored. I propose that we discuss the position in Zimbabwe at a meeting in January, to which we will invite the ambassador. We will have the meeting, regardless of whether she accepts the invitation.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

I am grateful to the members speaking in support of the motion. However, I am reluctant to express my real concern. I was very familiar with the circumstances of Margaret Hassan's disappearance and murder. That the Zimbabwean Government is saying it is not connected with her abduction and disappearance is an extremely dangerous dimension to the specific case. That is what gives it urgency. While we should invite the South African ambassador, I would like to hear from her within the next week or so on how she is exercising her concern, if she has any.

Chairman

We can certainly take that point on board and ask for an immediate response to our communication. Should we receive one, I will circulate it to members. We will also inform the ambassador that we will hold a meeting in January to discuss the position in Zimbabwe and invite her to attend.

Deputy Joe Costello

We should ask her to address this and the broader issue.

Chairman

We will push for the ambassador's response.

Senator David Norris

I support Deputy Higgins's suggestion. I also attended the meeting on Saturday about Jestina Mukoko. It seems very likely that she has been murdered. I found the comments of Mr. David Horgan of Petrel Resources on Newstalk astonishing. He seemed to say she should not have put her head above the parapet and raised issues of human rights. Such a statement is reprehensible beyond belief. However, it is all of a piece with the attitude to human rights which is growing in this country and coming from the Government. I hope we take an opportunity later to discuss the issue. Later today in the Seanad the Government will seek to have the Combat Poverty Agency abolished. The Human Rights Commission and the Equality Authority are in danger and references to human rights were removed from the Charities Bill. These are four hammer blows against human rights. What are we doing here? This is a sub-committee on human rights of a Parliament in which the Government has systematically set about destroying human rights. I question our right to preach to other nations when we have such a stinking record ourselves.

I have tabled an amendment on this issue to the Order of Business in the Seanad and must leave this meeting to speak to the amendment and contribute to the debate on the Charities Bill. In leaving the meeting I mean no disrespect to the sub-committee. It is an important committee and well chaired. Its membership reflects the strengths of our Parliament and we usually act in a non-partisan manner. It is important that we address this issue before it is too late. It is a shocking record for us to have. We should sink party differences and do as much as we can, within the constraints of party affiliations, to raise questions at the highest possible level.

Chairman

I thank the Senator for his kind comments. The sub-committee deals with matters of international human rights as it is a sub-committee of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. Some of the issues to which the Senator referred are the responsibility of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. We have requested that this become a standing committee, in which case our remit would change.

We have agreed that we should issue a joint statement. I will leave it to the clerk to draft it. We will make immediate contact with the ambassador and ask for an immediate response. I will circulate our letter and the ambassador's response, if any, to members. I would be happy to show Deputy Higgins a draft of the letter before it is sent and would welcome his comments on its content.

At our last meeting we agreed to write to the president of the Irish Human Rights Commission, Dr. Maurice Manning, to ask for his views on the impact on the commission of the recent funding cut. I have written to him and await his reply. When I receive it, we will discuss the matter. I hope we can do so at our next meeting.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

Let me make a point, without being contentious. The Irish Human Rights Commission, the distinguished president of which is Dr. Maurice Manning, was created on foot of the Good Friday Agreement, as was the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. It was envisaged that the two commissions would work in a broad equivalence of concern. They were not required to be exactly the same. Our concerns in what we do are not confined to our own jurisdiction.

We can look at this matter more effectively when Senator Norris is present. Meanwhile, I share his grave concerns about what is happening to the Irish Human Rights Commission, the Equality Authority, the Combat Poverty Agency and the committee on interracial relations. All of these actions contribute to a negative message. One might argue that the White Paper on Foreign Policy correctly retains human rights at its centre. However, I often refer to the equivalent Norwegian White Paper. When Norway decided to publish a White Paper on human rights, it acknowledged that it had spent a couple of decades without discussing the meaning of human rights within that country and had a parallel process of discussing human rights at home and internationally.

All the news is not bad. Some of our diplomats and scholars have co-operated magnificently on the United Nations convention on disability, for example. International disability rights imply similar rights at home. Signature is one thing but ratification means one has adjusted one's domestic legislation. One can never place a boundary between national and international human rights. I am happy to wait until Senator Norris who has tabled a specific motion calling for the restoration of full resources to the bodies dealing with human rights is present. Public comment has concentrated on the most obvious withdrawal of funding, that from the Equality Authority, and the resignation of its chairman, Mr. Niall Crowley. There is no point in imagining that this Government action is not incredibly important. We have been enormously damaged. One cannot depart so significantly, institutionally and administratively, and expect to retain one's credibility internationally.

Deputy Joe Costello

I agree with what has been said. We cannot operate as champions of human rights and not provide the resources and structures needed to assert their importance at home. I do not think we can just say one is what it is and the other is international. The Irish Human Rights Commission has the status of an international body because it was established through the Good Friday Agreement and represents a commitment made by the Irish Government when a commitment was made by another government to the establishment of a human rights body in Northern Ireland. This is an international matter in that respect. It is a legally binding document and the whole package was endorsed by the people of the island of Ireland, North and South, in referenda. The agency set up in this jurisdiction is not a regular body; it is unique for the reasons outlined and I feel we should consider it as such.

I know we will return to this matter but the unique nature of the Irish Human Rights Commission has led to calls that it be made independent of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and answerable to the Houses of the Oireachtas. It has been suggested that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should not deal with it through his Department. We could examine this approach to ensure it can carry out its functions in future and is not subject to how the wind is blowing or the whims of the person who happens to hold the ministry at the time. I am not suggesting this would happen but the commission has, to its detriment, been caught up in what has happened and I would like to see it established as an independent organisation that is answerable to this House, rather than an individual Minister.

Chairman

I think it is important that we move on because there is an official here from the Department of Foreign Affairs. I have listened to the last two speakers and I think it is also important we recognise that much progress has been made by the Government in human rights matters. Many supports and services are in place. I appreciate the point raised by Deputy Higgins about the measures taken on sharing facilities but perhaps we should wait to see the impact of this because I believe no person at any level in any political party wishes to dilute the existing roles of the relevant players. Certain measures have been identified as ones that will work without diluting the roles of the various groups.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

To be quite frank with the Chairman, I regard the attack on the Equality Authority as vindictive and I saw it coming for some time. The Chairman need not agree with me.

Chairman

We all read the newspapers and have seen views expressed that it was vindictive in one way or another. Whether or not that is the case, it is only fair that the processes which are in place be allowed proceed and that we exhaust the available avenues. We will see what the outcome is. This sub-committee has written to Dr. Manning about funding and has not received a reply. We should give him time and we will see what he has to say.

We received an e-mail, prior to the agenda being circulated, from Olive Moore, Trócaire's governance and human rights co-ordinator, requesting that the Sub-Committee on Human Rights consider adding the situation in Zimbabwe to the agenda for today's meeting as a matter of urgency. That has already been discussed.