Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence debate -
Tuesday, 24 May 2022

Women, Peace and Security: Engagement with the Irish Consortium on Gender Based Violence

Chairman

We are meeting today with representatives of the Irish Consortium on Gender Based Violence, ICGBV, to discuss the ongoing work of the organisation, particularly on women, peace and security and the prevention of gender-based violence in conflict settings. I refer as well to the importance of the equal participation of women and girls in all parts of society, with special reference to peace and security. The Irish Consortium on Gender Based Violence is an Irish-based alliance of international human rights, humanitarian and development organisations, including international NGOs, Irish Aid and the Defence Forces. On behalf of the joint committee, I welcome back Ms Mary van Lieshout, deputy CEO, GOAL, who is no stranger to this committee, along with Ms Abby Ryan, co-ordinator of the ICGBV, and who again is no stranger to our committee, and Mr. Maurice Sadlier, programme director, World Vision Ireland, WVI.

The format of today's meeting is well known to our guests, witnesses and members. We will hear an opening statement, which will be followed by a discussion and questions and answers with members of the committee. I ask the members to be concise in their questions to allow all members of the committee the opportunity to engage in what we might regard as full participation. I understand from Deputy Clarke that she has to step out for an engagement, but I am keen for us to hear her valued contribution.

I remind guests and witnesses of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make that person in any way identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory regarding an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. For witnesses attending remotely from outside the Leinster House campus there are some limitations to parliamentary privilege and, as such, they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a witness physically present in our meeting room does. That does not apply in this case, because I think all our witnesses are in the committee room here with us. This is welcome in the context of the earlier Covid-19 restrictions.

I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make that person in any way identifiable. I also remind members that they are only allowed to participate if they are physically located on the Leinster House complex, either here or in their offices.

With those formalities completed, I am pleased to call Ms Van Lieshout to make her opening statement. I believe Ms Ryan and Mr. Sadlier will also contribute to the opening statement. I thank them all for being with us.

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

I thank the committee for offering this opportunity to the ICGBV to spend some time talking to the members about our work, some ongoing concerns we have and the solidarity we might seek from the committee in this regard. After a brief introduction, I will ask Ms Ryan to outline the work of the consortium and Mr. Sadlier to speak about the areas of ongoing concern on which we might seek the support, solidarity and advice of the committee.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1325 on women, peace and security was adopted by the UN Security Council in 2001. That means we have had the last 20 years to reflect on the value of this resolution and, in broader terms, the value of a resolution adopted by the Security Council. When we look back over that time, we can see some significant strides have been made owing to this resolution. These developments and the benefits stemming from them have been enjoyed by member states in all corners of the globe. Today, 98 members of the UN have developed action plans under this resolution. By way of example, in Uganda, where GOAL has worked since 1989, women now enjoy the highest level of representation in public office and in senior cabinet roles under this action plan. In another example, in Ukraine, which we will talk more about later, under the national action plan on women, peace and security, significant investments have been made in services for survivors of gender-based violence in the past five years. Indeed, there have also been significant legal reforms in respect of the recognition of people from the LGBTQI+ community under the auspices of the action plan.

Noting these successes, and many more, including here in Ireland, we do also have concerns about some softening of language used in international forums on the issue of women's rights and on women, peace and security more specifically. We also have some concerns that the rights of women and girls in armed conflicts and violent settings are not fully appreciated by all actors. Therefore, we are here to talk to the committee about some of these concerns and the work we are doing to address them. As the Chair said, UN Resolution 1325 addresses two critical issues: the inordinate impact of conflict and violent armed settings on women and girls; and the crucial role women can and do play in conflict resolution and peacebuilding, when they are so allowed.

The committee has had a presentation from Ireland's representatives on our national action plan, but allow me to outline the four key dimensions of Resolution 1325. It binds us all when we understand these four dimensions under which the work takes place. The first dimension under this resolution is participation. Under this dimension, actions are set out to ensure that women and girls equally participate in society, and in all forums of society that are relevant to their ages and capacities, to be leaders for peacebuilding and conflict resolution and prevention.

The second dimension is prevention. This refers to the prevention of discrimination and violence against women and girls during armed conflict through legislation on gender equality and gender empowerment. The third dimension is protection. I refer to important work to protect women and girls from illegal, unlawful violence during conflict. Under this arm of protection, we see many kinds of work undertaken to ensure that peacekeeping forces are appropriately trained in the rights of girls and women during armed conflict.

The fourth pillar of these dimensions is relief and recovery. Under this pillar, the UN has set out numerous actions to ensure that, following conflict, the rights of and opportunities for girls and women in all their identities, be they displaced or disabled and of all ages, are protected during post-conflict periods and that investments in humanitarian work are proportionately and equally shared to ensure that girls and women enjoy the benefits of those investments and opportunities.

This was a quick tour of UN Resolution 1325. Under these four dimensions, the ICGBV has been conducting its work for over a decade now. I ask Ms Ryan to describe some of the important actions we have been taking.

Ms Abby Ryan

I thank Ms Van Lieshout and the members. As noted by the Chair, I am the co-ordinator for the ICGBV.

We are a slightly unique organisation in that we are made up of government and civil society organisations working in the international development and humanitarian space to increase our learning and understanding on the issue of gender-based violence, GBV, and improve our programming across the more than 50 countries in which our members work. We also go out into the world to speak about GBV and to try to target policy change, especially at UN level. We are made up of 13 members. As I said, Irish Aid and the Defence Forces are the Government representatives. We also have 11 of the NGOs that are based in Ireland, including the very big ones such as GOAL, Concern and Trócaire, and the very small ones such as the Ifrah Foundation, which is a two-person team working on the issue of female genital mutilation, FGM, in Somalia. We run the gamut in the Irish international, development and humanitarian space.

We are currently working on our strategic plan, which came into effect last year. We focused on three key areas: increasing the work on GBV prevention programming; response programming; and risk mitigation. We have lots of activities going on, including many learning sessions. This year, we focused quite strongly on GBV and climate change. We have produced a policy paper on the interconnected impacts of GBV and climate change and we had a session with the Commission on the Status of Women at the UN this year, which included people form the Solomon Islands and Columbia who spoke to what was happening in their communities regarding GBV and climate change and how they were impacted. We do a lot of work on disability inclusion within GBV programming and try to improve the inclusion of people with disabilities in the work our members are doing. We have also done a lot of work on psychosocial support and, again, try to improve our members' programming on such support and provide that space for them to learn from each other.

When Ireland took a seat on the UN Security Council last year, we saw a key opportunity to deepen our work on women, peace and security, with Ireland taking a co-chair position on the informal expert group on women, peace and security. In that moment, we reached out to colleagues in the Department to see how we might be able to bring about a situation where we would have some sessions with departmental officials, and women from countries that were coming up for discussion, on what the realities are for women and girls around the world are on women, peace and security. We have had eight sessions so far on Haiti, Myanmar, Afghanistan and, most recently, Sudan. We held these sessions under the Chatham House Rule because for many of the women who came forward to speak there were severe questions regarding their safety and security if they were very public about what they said, but they found a great moment to have real conversations with colleagues from the Department about the reality in their countries.

In Myanmar, for example, we have heard that many of the organisations and women that spoke out about what was happening there had to flee their countries. The reprisals, not only on them, as individuals, but also on their organisations in terms of violence and cutting of funding, have been so severe that most of them have had to leave. We have heard that in Columbia, even now after the peace process, women are facing high levels of violence and indigenous women, in particular, have a real fear of being killed for speaking out about what is happening in their communities. We heard from colleagues in Afghanistan that limitations on the freedom of movement of women there have had significant impacts, not only on their access to education, but their ability to engage in employment. Many of the women's rights organisations, or women-led organisations, have had to consider closing, if not actually close, because their staff simply cannot get to work. We are hearing about many major issues regarding how repression in women's lives means they are struggling to engage in their communities.

I will leave it there for now and pass over to my colleague, Mr. Sadlier, who will talk about some of the recommendations for today.

Mr. Maurice Sadlier

This set of recommendations came out of those listening sessions and the work that we as implementing partners do on the ground. There are five recommendations we believe will strengthen the approach to women, peace and security, if they are implemented.

To be honest, the first recommendation is an embarrassment for me to say, and it should be an embarrassment for all of us sitting in this room that it has to be repeated 27 years after the Beijing Declaration, which is the inclusion of women and minorities in decision-making. The fact we are so far into this agenda and we still have to remind ourselves that women and minorities have to be included in processes that affect their lives is simply not acceptable. We know that women face greater barriers to involvement in processes, leadership and decision-making processes and we have to do better to overcome those barriers and provide that support. That requires finance, capacity building and a change of mindset at all levels in order for us to do that. It is not only that our results are not taking on board the needs of women and minorities. It is that if such needs are taken into account, it leads to better results. We know when women are involved results are better, so it is something we have to improve on.

The second recommendation is removing the barriers to access to services and basic needs. We recently did a study of 28 camps of internally displaced people in north-west Syria. Some 88% of the women we interviewed said they lacked access to basic essential services, namely, education, healthcare and general support. It is not only detrimental to survivors of GBV that they cannot access the relevant support services they require; education is a way to break many of these cycles. I have seen this in South Sudan where in a school of 700 or 800 children, there are approximately 120 children in the early years class and the gender divide is approximately 50-50. As we go up through the years, the numbers dwindle and the number of girls in the classes really dwindles. Girls are missing their opportunity, which we know can bring about profound changes. It is also becoming much more complex. Ms Ryan mentioned the issues around GBV and climate change. I was in South Sudan last December and schools we had supported, with the help of Irish Aid, had been washed away by floods along the River Nile. There is an internally displaced people, IDP, camp, schools are flooded and the local health centre, which was built by GOAL in the same IDP camp, was also flooded. The nexus of climate change, protection and access to services is becoming increasingly important.

The third area involves the protection and provision of safe spaces for human rights defenders and civil society organisations. We see this from our community work where we need to provide places for women and survivors of GBV to come together to support each other. By providing these very simple areas that are safe and protected for women in the community they get to have peer support and access services they need. We need this at different levels so we can provide spaces for women to come together to support each other, and to plan, talk and take things forward. It is becoming increasingly important and, again, we see that many human rights defenders need this support.

The fourth area relates to active support and collaboration with civil society organisations. This is an area where Irish Aid is incredibly strong, as are many of the Irish agencies, in supporting the localisation agenda and the grand bargain, looking at how we support local civil society and local organisations to be a voice for themselves and, increasingly, allowing them to play the leadership role in how we build capacity, especially for local women's organisations and how we help them develop to be in the lead and support their own communities.

The fifth area is that of the implementation of children's rights in conflict and post-conflict situations. Again, our recent study in north-west Syria showed that 43% of children we spoke with knew of somebody under the age of 18 who had been married. Child marriage is an increasing issue, as are teenage pregnancies. The recruitment of children into armed forces, especially young boys, is also a major issue. We cannot talk about women, peace and security without looking at the impact on children and ensuring we protect their safety in it. In many cases, it is the mother who is looking after the security of the child. By making sure women are safe, therefore, we are also protecting their children.

Chairman

That was most interesting. Members and witnesses will be aware of Ireland's participation in the third national action plan on women, peace and security. In fact, this committee has a direct role in monitoring and engagement. The first report of the oversight group was received by the committee last year. We understand work is under way on the second report and it will be lodged with us as soon as it has been completed.

Senator Wilson has departed. Last week he had the opportunity of attending the UN Security Council and seeing at first hand the leadership being employed by Ireland at that level and indeed the great privilege it has been for Ireland to join the council yet again. I acknowledge the work of our team, especially, Ms Geraldine Byrne Nason, who, for many years and in various roles in the Department, has been most active in highlighting the need to ensure a greater level of equality, and empowering women and girls. We saw first-hand last week the leadership position she has taken in that regard.

Turning to Ms Ryan and Mr. Sadlier in particular, Ms Ryan mentioned some parts of the world where there are acute challenges and where Ireland, through our NGOs and especially through the leadership of Irish Aid, is assisting in ensuring the changing of attitudes and moving away from what often is a real barrier, in the form of traditional regulation and attitudes. We can oversee regulatory change in many countries across the world but regulatory change alone will not change attitudes. Perhaps our guests will give us their experience, particularly of the current crisis in Afghanistan and the seriously adverse and disadvantaged position within which women and girls find themselves on a daily basis with reference to education and work. I ask them to also outline the position regarding the dangers in that country of a proliferation of GBV. An issue this committee has looked at not in recent times but in the past is the scourge of FGM. Have our guests seen, in the context of their work in recent years, an improvement in the situation in the sense of a changing of attitudes that would lead them to believe firm progress is being made? Ireland took part in the Generation Equality Forum last year. Is it too early to evaluate our takeaways from the participation or how our participation might best ensure a greater level of success or a greater level of surmounting what would appear to be serious barriers in the form of attitude, traditions and laws in many countries across the world?

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

Are there other questions the Chair wants put on the table?

Chairman

Yes, I will ask Deputy Cowen.

Deputy Barry Cowen

I wish to briefly pick up on a point Ms Ryan made on the work of the Security Council and Ireland's chairing of the sub-committee. She said there had been eight meetings held since it assumed the role that it initiated of bringing witnesses from different countries. Can she point to any recommendations that have emanated from that committee to the Security Council and what impact it is likely to have, is having or has had as a result of those initiations?

Ms Abby Ryan

I can certainly get started. On Afghanistan, I am not an expert on it so I apologise if I cannot give the Chair all the information on that. For me it is clear in those moments that the work in communities, particularly around gender-based violence prevention, is really important. When perhaps there is not a possibility to engage in looking to change regulatory systems that work happening directly in communities with GOAL, World Vision and all the members of the consortium becomes ever more to the front of your mind. I might let some others speak on that in a minute.

On FGM, it is hard to measure progress on these things. One of the fears you have is some things we are hearing are about a slight trend change in FGM moving more towards medicalisation of it. That is very worrying. If doctors are performing FGM and cutting in countries that is a really different challenge we are facing. You hear in some countries that is where the trend is going. There has been much work done by lots of organisations trying to work in communities to try to change mindsets on FGM. That is the slow work of changing people's perceptions on this being the right thing to do. Here in Ireland that is also coming up as working with communities here and some of our organisations, for example Action Aid, are working in direct provision centres on issues around FGM. It is a challenging one for sure.

I might pass over to Ms Van Lieshout to talk about the UN Security Council. To clarify, the eight meetings were meetings we had internally with the Department.

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

If I may, I will take up the Deputy's question on the UN Security Council, such as I can. All of us involved in watching the Security Council and involved in watching Ireland's promise when it was running for election to the council have been immensely proud and gratified for the leadership. Ms Byrne Nason is a formidable leader, but she has a team of people around her who are extremely well prepared before the meetings. I sit for GOAL on the UN Security Council stakeholders' advisory committee, which was established by the Institute of International and European Affairs, IIEA. A number of agencies sit together and we are regularly briefed on the agenda.

This has been a very difficult period for anyone newly elected to the Security Council. You need only look at the conflicts around the world, such as the situations in Ethiopia and Ukraine. Some of the real legacy of the Irish contribution will be in the context of significant accomplishments. One of them was a resolution recently on managing the transition out of conflict of UN peacekeeping forces. That is a very fragile time for any community. A community has become comfortable with the safety and protection of UN forces and when it is deemed safe enough for those forces to depart that is a frightening moment for many communities. Ireland has played a strong leadership role in ensuring there are strong protocols and procedures managing those withdrawals, so the community is safe. It is untold how much benefit that will be to poor communities that are very frightened following conflict.

Other significant achievements include the resolution on the cross-border access of humanitarian goods into Syria. Last year, Ireland was the pen-holder on that resolution. It had to be one of the most difficult conversations, yet this year it is made all the more difficult by the conflict in Ukraine, such are the politics of that discussion. We are talking about accessing the community of north-west Syria with humanitarian goods over the border from Turkey. There will be another vote on whether that access will continue or be discontinued. That vote happens annually. This year it is a very difficult vote but last year Ireland managed it with a strong political nous and very sophisticated behind-the-scenes negotiations trying to depolarise the conversation. That will be a legacy to the people of Syria of which Ireland can be proud.

Among many other contributions, a final contribution that will stand to Ireland was some work it did with Niger on climate change, the environment and conflict. While the resolution did not pass because of the politics at the Security Council - we have seen it, so we cannot always be surprised by that - Ireland managed to build a solid consensus, knowledge, awareness and support across the general membership on the understanding of the interaction between conflict and the environment. Mr. Sadlier has described some of it, including significant development gains being lost to environmental damage. Ireland worked with Niger quietly and behind the scenes on something that has not captured media attention as a great success, but it is the consensus behind the issue now that will be Ireland's legacy.

These are just a few contributions that should give us all the great pride that the Chairman has expressed. Ireland's tenure is not over yet, but the legacy of the past two years will be rich and something we will be proud of for many years to come.

I will hand over to Mr. Sadlier to discuss some of the on-the-ground work the Chairman has mentioned.

Mr. Maurice Sadlier

I will address three points, the first of which has to do with Afghanistan. It is concerning to see the regression there. World Vision is active on the ground and has been in Afghanistan for 30-plus years. We had hoped my colleague, Ms Asuntha Charles, the national director in Afghanistan, would be in attendance today, but she is actually taking some leave for the first time since it all backslid last year.

As actors on the ground, we will continue with quiet diplomacy and advocacy for education and women's rights, but we need engagement at the highest level as well. It must be continuous engagement. The situation is not something we as implementers on the ground can fix. It is very concerning and has significant implications.

Regarding behavioural change and legal elements, the Chairman is right. This is not just about Afghanistan. We are also working in Puntland in Somalia with three different levels of law, those being, state law, traditional law and Sharia law. It is a two-pronged approach where we work to ensure enforcement of the laws while also working on behavioural changes at community level. We are trying to engage men. People often throw their hands up in their air and ask "What about the men?" We are engaging men for the benefit of women and for all. However, progress is a slow burn and changing behaviours and mindsets takes a long time. We are doing some interesting work in South Sudan. Laws are difficult to understand, so we are ensuring people understand them and bring them into local languages. Tanzania has 70 plus languages, for example. Laws need to be transposed into local languages and popularised. We take multiple tracks to achieve change and it is a slow burn. It is easier to get legislative frameworks in place, and getting things to work on the ground takes longer.

The Chairman right about the Generation Equality Forum in that it is too early to know fully. What Ireland has done well - Ms Van Lieshout has alluded to some of it - at the Security Council and in all other forums is putting women at the centre of discussions and listening to those on the front lines. I do not necessarily mean the three of us, but women from the community and people on the front line. Ireland gives them space and uses its access to let their voices be heard, which is important.

Chairman

I am glad we are joined by Deputy Clarke, lest the committee give the impression our deliberations are dominated by men. Before calling her, I notice a hand has been raised by the former Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Deputy Stanton. I acknowledge the work he did in that Department over a number of years on issues relating to women and security, looking at them from a justice point of view in particular, not only in terms of funding but also the promotion of regulatory and legislative change.

Deputy David Stanton

I thank the Chairman for allowing me to contribute. I welcome our guests. I am sorry I am not in the room with them, but I have another meeting to attend straight after I speak.

A number of years ago, I was honoured to deliver the statement by Ireland at the 63rd session of the UN Commission on the Status of Women, CSW, as well as the session prior to that. I join our guests in acknowledging the work Ms Byrne Nason, our UN ambassador, and her team are doing. The Chairman and I have engaged with them a number of times and we were impressed with what they have done. I am pleased to hear they are continuing in that vein now that we have a seat on the Security Council.

A number of issues arise, the first of which is the Istanbul Convention and its implementation globally. Our guests might address this. As Ms Van Lieshout has stated, violence and war are occurring more frequently around the world. We are living in an awful time, one with a great deal of conflict around the world. Obviously, women and girls suffer much more in such situations.

Ms Van Lieshout referred to the impact of climate change. We have met people from the Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands, Nauru and elsewhere who are impacted by climate change. It affects Africa and Asia as well, where there are climate extremes. The impact of this on women and girls is disproportionate. They carry the brunt of it. Our guests might comment on this point.

We all feel helpless about what is happening in Afghanistan. The way in which women and girls there are being treated is appalling, not only for the reasons the guests set out, but for the loss of potential, talent and ability to the people of Afghanistan and the world. It is shocking. The Oireachtas has worked on gender pay reporting and gender budgeting, introduced laws criminalising coercive control and so on. While we must keep an eye on what is happening in Ireland, we must also be cognisant of what is happening abroad, which is the other extreme.

At some stage, the committee should invite the Front Line Defenders to a meeting. Mr. Sadlier mentioned human rights defenders. They have a great deal to say because they are on the front line.

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

I congratulate the Deputy on his contribution through his previous role in the Department of Justice, on the commission and in other gender-affirmative initiatives. I will ask Ms Ryan to take his question on the Istanbul Convention.

Ms Abby Ryan

We are monitoring the convention less in terms of international development in the humanitarian space than colleagues would be in the domestic sector. However, I engage with colleagues in the domestic sector. I am particularly pleased about the upcoming domestic, sexual and gender-based violence plan. If I am not mistaken, it is due out shortly. I had sight of the draft plan. What pleased me was the strong policy coherence between what was happening at domestic level and in the international space. I am pleased to see the plan advancing. It was a great moment in time when Ireland became a signatory to the Istanbul Convention. Many people were pleased it happened.

I will pass the question on Afghanistan to Mr. Sadlier.

Mr. Maurice Sadlier

I was going to take the climate question because I used to work for Ms Mary Robinson and Deputy Stanton spoke well on this topic at a side event during the 63rd session of the CSW, or CSW63, that she co-organised with Ms Byrne Nason. Ms Robinson will be happy to hear she had a lasting impact.

We are seeing the effects of the climate change issue in Afghanistan as well. The current hunger crisis is driven in part by the Ukraine crisis, but it is also driven by climate change. We are seeing a major global hunger crisis. It does not just affect a number of countries.

We see an increase in child marriage in Afghanistan because families are pushed to the brink of their coping mechanisms. There is nothing else they can do aside from, ultimately, selling their children into child marriage. We see an increase in inter-partner violence in South Sudan, again because of the stress put on households, including the stress of having to feed one's family and not being able to do so. It is raising a whole load of issues. We see a really strong correlation between the impacts of climate change and gender-based violence, not necessarily always physical violence but also psychosocial and emotional violence. I think we are all having an impact on that.

It is, as I said, a matter of access to services. Many of these places are being washed away, with the banks of the Nile flooding away a health centre and a school. There is erosion and it is really difficult. Deputy Stanton mentioned the Marshall Islands, and there is also Kiribati. We work with the Solomon Islands and Vanuatu as well and with communities that are very remote and cut off from services and that are in very difficult situations. I was in Sierra Leone a few years ago and spent two hours trying to get off a very remote island because of torrential downpours - in the dry season. It was all right for me, but a woman experiencing a very dangerous delivery there who could not get to the mainland, to the hospital, would have been more than likely dead, to be honest. We see an ever-increasing impact of climate change on the well-being of women. It is also driving conflict in lots of places and hampering access to scarce resources.

Deputy Sorca Clarke

I thank our guests. I apologise for needing to step out. I find it somewhat ironic to have to leave a meeting on gender-based violence to go to a briefing on gender equality because we have an Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality on the back of the Citizens' Assembly that reported last year.

I think Mr. Sadlier touched on this somewhat when he spoke of those polarising conversations that need to be had and the good work that can come out of them, but where international agreements meet and overlap somewhat with domestic policy, particularly around the aspect of equality, how does he see that working on the ground? Internationally, we may have a vision of where we want access to education, laws applied or representation figures, but how do we bridge that? How do we nudge forward what the international community sees as best practice in a way that is culturally appropriate to the countries in which the NGOs operate?

Second, 20 years on, what progress do the witnesses think has still to be made? We know that good steps have been taken in some areas, and they need to be recognised, but there are other areas where perhaps the anticipated progress has not quite got there yet. In what areas is that the case, and what work do the witnesses see as needing to happen to reach those anticipated outcomes?

The third area I wish to focus on is gender-based and sexual violence as a weapon of war. In the witnesses' experience, what is the prevalence of reporting, not of experiencing? What, then, are the barriers to reporting and to conviction? Ultimately, what are the training needs of the NGOs on the ground or those points of first contact with somebody who has experienced gender-based or sexual violence as a weapon of war? I would also like the witnesses to give us a little more information on where conflict overlaps with environment. As to how we approach that, climate change is changing all the time and its repercussions are changing. What impact does that have on the work the witnesses do on the ground? Does it change their approach to certain things? Do they find themselves needing to target more specific resources into certain areas?

The last topic I wish to touch on is the exploitation of children. Unfortunately, we see a large number of unaccompanied minors coming from all areas of conflict. What involvement do the witnesses have with children who then become unidentifiable or perhaps missing in the system? What involvement do they have with international or state agencies in ensuring that those children are then returned to a point of safety?

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

I will start with an answer to some of those questions, if that is okay, and then I will invite Mr. Sadlier and Ms Ryan to join in.

The Deputy asked how we nudge forward. I will keep my answers at the highest possible level and with a note of caution and concern. Multilateralism and absolute commitment to the multilateral institutions are critical to nudging forward public policy in every single member state. My caution is that what we have seen in the past ten years is a reduced commitment to multilateralism. I come back to the Irish bravery and courage in going for the UN Security Council seat at a time when commitment to multilateralism is at a low point. I will not say the lowest ever point, but in almost 60 years of the existence of the United Nations, I think it is hard for many of us in the room to remember when support for the UN has been more difficult. I hope, through public policy at the United Nations, that we bring forward a consensus that is almost a peer pressure on neighbouring states and regions. It is through the regional bodies, such as the Organisation of African Unity and the European Union, that the United Nations mechanisms come down regionally and on to states. Of course, people can talk to the committee about what can happen on the ground in addition to public policy, but there is no gainsaying the effect of peer pressure state by state. I believe we have seen some of that.

The Deputy asked for examples of what has happened and what remains to be done. We could point to quite significant movement in public recognition of girls' access to schools. We have certainly seen much greater support for and understanding of that internationally. As Mr. Sadlier said, one can go into many schools and see at least early participation. That participation decreases and decreases as girls get older, but we have widespread and better understanding of the value of girls' education to the family doing better and coping better with scarce resources. That is one major accomplishment of the past decade.

Where do we need good, concrete work? We need it in women's participation in peace processes and women's recognition at the peacebuilding table and the negotiating table. As an example, in the past six years of peace negotiations between Russia and Ukraine, there have been no female delegates on the Russian team and only two female delegates from Ukraine. Yet a significant majority of those affected by the displacement and the conflict in Ukraine are women on the move. That displacement renders them extremely vulnerable to increased levels of gender-based violence. There is the excessive military presence and the displacement from their own legal frameworks. All of that renders them much more susceptible to victimisation and gender-based violence, yet there is very low import of their knowledge and their experience at the negotiating table. If we could do one thing in every peace negotiation and ensure there is representation of women of all identities bringing their experience to the table, we would achieve a significant amount in making sure that the rights of women, girls and children are protected in that post-conflict period. That is one area where I hope we can take concrete actions and watch every single peace negotiation and ask where the female representation is. That looks small. Certainly, it looks easier than some of the more complex things we have been asking for, but its impact is very significant.

The Deputy asked us about GBV as a weapon of war and talked to us about counting and numbers.

If, in any given conflict, we cannot put a number on how many women are experiencing GBV, it is very important to us that we do not allow this absence of numbers to prevent us from taking action. We can make some assumptions based on evidence from previous conflicts. We have to act to protect people in the knowledge that displacement in and of itself increases the risk. What we know in Ukraine is that even prior to this war, women who were displaced in the region had three times the level of GBV, compared with women who were not displaced. Our argument is that we cannot wait for more data to allow us to act.

Ms Ryan spoke about some of the sessions we have had with the informal expert group on violence against women and the need for Chatham House rules. In one of our most recent informal expert listening sessions, we heard from women from across the iNGO network, including Concern, Trócaire, World Vision and Goal. All of the women who spoke on our behalf from the ground spoke about a fear of reprisal when they document or report GBV. They are afraid of reporting it to the authorities due to the reprisals they and their families will experience. Documenting GBV and making it safe to report would be another extremely significant achievement if we could only do it. It is very difficult to say to a woman, "You be the first, you go across that line because we need the numbers." It is extremely high-risk for many women to take those risks for their families and their organisations, as I hope we have demonstrated. The one reason we are not joined by our colleagues from the field to some degree is because of this awareness of the dangers that attach to publicly speaking about public policy in this area in particular.

While I absolutely want to say that documenting is really important and accountability is critical, it is hard to see the progress in that area as quickly as in some other areas for investment. This is simply because it is a life of danger and it puts children in danger for many of our colleagues who are asked to do so. I cannot give an easy answer on that.

On the issue of the exploitation of children, I will look to my colleagues and ask if there is someone who is more comfortable answering on that from the basis of their work with children and child protection on the ground.

Mr. Maurice Sadlier

I will add to Ms van Lieshout’s comments. I have a figure but I would not generalise the figure. It is from a very discreet piece of work in north-west Syria where 25% of women interviewed said they had witnessed GBV but only 9% reported that they had been victims of it. It is very problematic. I think it is far higher than either of those figures. A place such as north-west Syria has multiple issues, including cultural issues, lack of accountability and lack of services. I mentioned that I have been to South Sudan. I have been to places in the middle of nowhere where it is pointless. There are no police services and no health services - there is nothing. That is what we do on the ground. We are building these services and trying to make those connections.

On the exploitation of children, we work at community and national levels. We leave the reunification and repatriation stuff to the UN agencies. Ireland is one of the strongest donors around education and protection programming. I spoke to my colleagues across a number of countries as part of a piece of work we did recently. When I asked them why they were not asking me for money for food - we know that food and climate change are big issues - I was told the reason was that Ireland funds protection but no other donors do so. Protection at a community level is vital.

When I was looking through my notes this morning from my last trip to South Sudan, I was reminded that one of the kids said that peace comes from education. That answers many of the questions that Deputy Clarke asked. For me, it is accountability and education. Until we have accountability from the ground up and implementation from the top down, we will not see anything. We have many international agreements and national laws, but we will only see changes when local communities and local citizenry can hold their governments to account.

In the climate sphere, we have a programme that is implemented in Galway and in Tanzania around holding local government to account on climate action. That is the sort of work I really enjoy. I have just finished a piece of work with the Philippines on a similar process. We need local communities to be able to hold their governments to account for delivery of services and plans. Deputies may not always enjoy being held to account or being shouted at by people outside the Dáil but ultimately that is what I would like to see in many of the places we work. I want people to be free and able to hold their governments to account. That is where we will actually make progress and reach things.

On the conflict around climate change and resources, we have not been able to travel very much in the past few years. South Sudan was my most recent trip. Food is a problem. The World Food Programme, through World Vision, is distributing food. People in internally displaced camps are getting food parcels, but people in local host communities are not. They have equal challenges. Climate change is impacting the lives of both groups equally. There is conflict between host communities and internally displaced persons, so much so that host communities can refuse land rights or fishing rights to those who are internally displaced. Such conflict often happens, although not always to this extent. They are no longer allowed to grow crops or to fish. It is causing friction between communities. We have seen that when resources pass through communities in northern Uganda to South Sudan or northern Kenya, there is conflict for water and grazing rights, etc. Where resources are more scarce, we are seeing increased intercommunal violence around those issues.

Deputy Sorca Clarke

I think Ms Van Lieshout is absolutely correct. She has put it more eloquently than I have ever heard it. If we are going to wait for statistics on GBV, we will be waiting a very long time and we will let down a many women. I will explain why I asked that question. We are seeing an increase in migration and movement of people. If the country of arrival does not have the resources to meet the needs of those crossing the border, which are often based on trauma, how best can the host country react and address that trauma before it gets to the point where it is hugely destructive?

Ms Van Lieshout is correct about needing women’s voices at the table. This committee has heard this many times. Even when we were back in the most restrictive of Covid-19 restrictions and using Teams or Zoom, the need to have women’s voices at the table came across strongly and passionately.

An aspect of peace-building that I do not think we speak of enough is the fact that peace can be very fragile. While peace-building is certainly one aspect, the embedding of peace into a community is vital and the monitoring, maintaining and nurturing of that peace is vital to ensure it is sustained. It is in those areas that women’s voices need to be around the table too.

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

I thank the Deputy. I will hand over to Ms Ryan to flesh out some of those answers.

Ms Abby Ryan

I agree with Deputy Clarke on the mass movement of people and how to ensure GBV services are there. The short answer – it is not very simple – is that in an emergency context, GBV services have to be seen as essential life-saving services from the very beginning. Protection clusters and GBV subclusters through the humanitarian architecture need to be activated from the start. We know that when there is a mass movement of people, conflict or any kind of emergency situation, the levels of GBV will rise. As Ms Van Lieshout said, we do not need the data to know that is the case. We hear it all the time. In short, those things need to be there from the very start.

That means they need to be funded. In 2019, the International Rescue Committee brought out a report which looked over the previous three years. That is all it could look at because we have only had aggregated data on GBV services since 2016. It looked at how much funding there had been for GBV services between 2016 and 2018 in emergencies and in humanitarian calls.

Some 0.12% went to GBV services, which was a third of what was requested. That is not to say that funding is the only answer, but there is a need to triple the amount of funding given to GBV services in emergency settings. Another stark finding from that report was about the need to increase levels of GBV expertise. In some cases, people are literally not available to work on these programmes. There are two sides to that and some big needs are becoming evident. My colleagues will speak about ensuring and embedding peace so that it is not fragile and lost. That has happened in many countries, where this has rolled back.

Mr. Maurice Sadlier

I have just completed work on how peace is fragile. Mindanao in the Philippines has been an area of conflict for over 40 years. There have been secession agreements. We are proposing that women be used as mediators. Peace is fragile. Community members should be trained not just for sustainable peace but to mediate where there are outbreaks of conflict. I was quite clear that women have to step in as mediators, since they will be listened to, so that further outbreaks are prevented and it does not grow in scale. We see it everywhere. Peace is fragile. It is difficult and it will get more difficult. As Deputy Stanton said, the world is squeezed for resources and there is increasing conflict. We need to look at how we maintain peace and support communities to come up with their own approaches to peace and learn from what we know here. We have much experience with peace processes in Ireland to share with the world and learn from.

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

We need to broaden our understanding. Clearly, I do not believe it would be held in this forum, but too often we are binary about what is peace and what is not. Many communities are exiting a violent armed conflict and going into a period of chronic instability and fragility. That is the period in which we cannot convince ourselves that it is peace and that we have to keep the work going. Our teams in Haiti speak about the women working in some informal urban settlements there and how they are the front line of building social cohesion on a daily basis. Who would call that peacebuilding? Building social cohesion and the capacity of a community to resolve problems when they are small and still a flashpoint, following a conflict, is peacebuilding. Recognising that those periods can continue to require support, funding and social cohesion investment for years before we can confidently ask if peace has arrived is increasingly part of our work. These fragile settings with protracted conflict require a greater appreciation of the investment and support that is required. Our understanding is that women are playing a critical leadership role in those communities. It is quiet, but they provide strong leadership with considerable skill.

Chairman

I thank the witnesses. That was most interesting and informative for us. It feeds into the work that we are doing on peace and security and the Irish contribution and leadership. I have a concluding message for the witnesses as they leave. I thank them for their engagement and acknowledge the work of all 13 component parts of the Irish consortium in, as the witnesses said, areas of conflict, great diversity, challenge and difficulty.

The witnesses mentioned the contribution of Ireland at the UN Security Council, which is a great source of satisfaction and pride for us as Irish parliamentarians and for the committee. I acknowledge the ongoing work of the Irish leadership over many years on the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva. Only last week, Ireland acceded to the presidency of the Council of Europe, another important human rights organisation, where the women and girls agenda should be prioritised, although perhaps in less challenging but nevertheless equally important circumstances.

I thank Ms Van Lieshout, Ms Ryan and Mr. Sadlier for sharing their priorities and concerns with us.

Ms Mary Van Lieshout

We were delighted to receive the committee's invitation. We know it plays an important role in monitoring Ireland's national action plan under United Nations Security Council Resolution 1325. We knew we were coming to a well-informed group and that it would not be educating from the first step, but that the committee is well-versed in Resolution 1325. It has been nothing but a pleasure to have a deeper conversation with the committee. We hope it has added somewhat to its armoury for its future work as it continues to monitor this. Our parting message is to ask Ireland to continue with its leadership in all the forums that have been mentioned and to continue to commit itself to multilateralism, humanitarian law and international human rights that promote the equality, empowerment, and full participation of women and girls, which will serve us all so well. I thank the committee for everything it does to that end and ask for its continued solidarity with our group. We look forward to meeting the committee again.

Chairman

We look forward to future engagement. I thank Ms Van Lieshout, Ms Ryan and Mr. Sadlier for joining us.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.27 p.m. until 3.15 p.m. on Tuesday, 31 May 2022.