Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade debate -
Wednesday, 22 Apr 2015

Security Situation in Kenya: Ambassador of Federal Republic of Kenya

Chairman

I am delighted to welcome His Excellency, Mr. Richard Opembe, ambassador of the Federal Republic of Kenya to Ireland and I congratulate him on his appointment. His role as ambassador is supplemented by the fact that we now have a resident ambassador in Nairobi which means we have two resident ambassadors, both in Ireland and in Kenya. That will foster closer relations. There is huge potential between our two countries to grow that relationship which existed for many years through the missionaries, tourism and the many Irish people who have travelled to Kenya and the Irish companies working there. I wish the ambassador well in his new role. Coming from an economic and business background, he is well suited for the job to which he has been appointed. It is a great honour for him to represent his country in Ireland.

At the outset I express my sympathy and that of all members of the committee to the ambassador and the people of Kenya on the recent terrorist massacre at Garissa University in northern Kenya. We were all very saddened to see those horrific pictures on our television screens of that massacre when so many young people in the prime of life were taken out and killed. They were attending university trying to do better for themselves. Some would probably have gone on to pursue careers in academia, business or whatever. It was very sad to see that atrocity happen in Kenya.

Ireland has had very strong links with Kenya in the past and I hope this meeting will build on those strong links. We will also concentrate on bilateral relations between Ireland and Kenya. Perhaps the ambassador will update us on the situation with al-Shabaab, in the whole region, with order in Kenya, with Somalia and all these areas.

The format of the meeting is that there will be an opening statement from the ambassador, following which he will take questions from the joint committee. Before we begin, I remind members and witnesses and those in the public gallery to ensure their mobile phones are switched off completely for the duration of the meeting as they cause interference, even on silent mode, with the recording equipment. This is particularly important for this meeting because it is being streamed live on Oireachtas TV.

I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or body outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. If they are directed by the Chairman to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I am aware the ambassador has another engagement later so I call on him to make his opening statement.

H.E. Mr. Richard Opembe

I thank the Chairman for inviting me to make a presentation to the honourable members of the committee on the current security situation in Kenya following the terrorist attack at the Garissa University College on 2 April 2015. I further take this opportunity to thank the Irish Government and the people of Ireland for standing with Kenya in condemning the terrorists’ activities and for the messages of sympathy to the victims of the Garissa attack. On behalf of the Government and the people of Kenya, I acknowledge our appreciation of the gesture of support demonstrated by His Excellency, the President of Ireland, Mr. Michael D. Higgins, the Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, and other Government officials, all of whom came to sign the book of condolences as a sign of solidarity with the Government and the people of Kenya.

Following the attack, a total of 147 innocent lives were lost and many others with injuries were admitted to various hospitals.

Most of those admitted have since been treated and discharged. The Government of Kenya will meet all the hospital and burial costs for all the victims.

The Government of Kenya, in consultation with college management and other stakeholders, has made the necessary arrangements for the relocation of students to other universities in Kenya. This will ensure that their learning programmes will continue without interruption.

Despite the isolated terrorist attack in Garrisa on 2 April 2015, the security situation in the country is good. The government has put in place necessary measures to ensure adequate security in all learning institutions and other areas that may be targeted by terrorists. The Central Bank of Kenya has also frozen 86 accounts of individuals, organisations and financial institutions suspected to be facilitating terrorism and radicalisation in the country.

The government has also been working on various initiatives aimed at scaling up the level of public alertness and strengthening national security. Some of the initiatives include: the enactment of the Security Laws Amendment Act 2014 that strengthened Kenyan legislation to deal firmly with terrorism and radicalisation; sustained ground, aerial and maritime surveillance along the Kenya-Somalia border; construction of perimeter fence and other complementing surveillance systems along the Kenya-Somalia border - construction of the initial 50 km stretch is underway from border point 1 to border point 29 in Kiunga; continuous collaboration with Muslim leaders to counter terrorism and extremists narratives; enhancement of implementation of the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2012 that provides the legal framework to fight terrorism; establishment of the financial reporting centre at the Central Bank of Kenya to analyse financial transactions and investigate the financing of terrorism; increased investment in the security sector, including fast-tracking of police reforms; application of technology in border controls, passenger profiling, and screening procedures of persons entering and leaving the country; establishment of partnership programmes with private establishments, such as hotels, learning institutions and shopping malls, to improve their physical security through awareness programmes and the exchange of threat and vulnerability assessments; enhancement of intelligence gathering and sharing through the community policing initiative Nyumba Kumi, which means ten household clusters; mounting multi-agency security operations under AU initiatives targeting various militia in Somalia; and co-operation and sharing of information with regional countries and other global liaison partners such as the UN, AU, IGAD and EAC.

Despite these counter-terrorism efforts, Kenya is faced with an emergent serious security challenge of radicalisation, which has created an indigenous group of terrorists who are now being used to plan and execute attacks within the country, as was noted in Garissa University on 2 April 2015. The proponents of radicalisation have been able to recruit a considerable number of youths from the coast, north-east and Nairobi, as well as other parts of the country, mainly through exploiting the youths' desire for prosperity, financial inducements and promises of better living.

Kenya has been in the limelight, in particular, on matters of terrorism and violent extremism due to a number of reasons, including the 700 km porous common border it shares with southern Somalia, where the main al-Shabaab bases are located.

Some criminals have also managed to enter Kenya disguised as refugees only to convert the refugee camps as centres for radicalisation and planning of terrorist acts, as well as the indoctrination of Kenyan youths with the violent extremist ideologies through education institutions, mosques, the Internet, mass media and prison. Others have been lured to cross into Somalia with the promise of employment opportunities, only to return having been indoctrinated into violent extremism.

Kenya will not relent in its fight against terrorism. We are currently implementing the national counter-radicalisation strategy which has seven pillars covering media strategy, psychosocial strategy, faith-based strategy, capacity building strategy, political strategy, education strategy and security strategy.

All the national stakeholders have expressed their commitment to support the government's efforts in dealing with terrorism. In this regard, civil society groups, faith-based organisations and development partners have also initiated strategies that complement government programmes on security. To economically empower the youth and citizenry, the government is running programmes under different funding schemes including the Uwezo fund, the youth enterprise fund and women enterprise fund.

Terrorism is an international security challenge that can be effectively dealt with through bilateral and multilateral co-operation. In recognition of this fact, Kenya invites development partners for fruitful co-operation and especially in the thematic areas of: counter-terrorism prevention and intervention; countering violent extremism; police reforms and effectiveness; command and control CCTV; border security management; digitisation of immigration and registration services with digital records and biometrics; investigative, prosecutor and judicial capacity building; security inter-agency co-operation and collaboration; improvised explosive devices, IEDs, awareness, counter measures and disposal; and airport/aviation security.

The other areas of co-operation that Kenya seeks to venture into include: strengthening inter-agency security co-operation; enhancing capacity for financial reporting to monitor mobile money transfers; capacity building programmes for anti-terrorism police, prosecution, immigration and judicial staff; acquisition of body scanners, scan-vans, intruder detection systems, vehicle-screening machines and night-vision equipment for aviation security; and the facilitation of benchmarking on best practice for counter-terrorism measures.

I wish to reiterate Kenya’s commitment to fight against terrorism and further express a willingness to engage in fruitful partnerships aimed at dealing with the security challenges we currently face. We look forward to initiating consultations with Ireland to identify areas of mutual interest for co-operation and these will be communicated to the Government through diplomatic channels.

Again, I sincerely thank the Chairman and other members of the committee for this opportunity to meet with them and for their positive engagement with Kenya.

Chairman

I thank His Excellency, Mr. Opembe, for his comprehensive overview on what his government is doing to counteract terrorist activities in Kenya. I now call Deputy Brendan Smith.

Deputy Brendan Smith

I welcome the ambassador and thank him for his presentation. Like the Chairman, I wish to put on the record the outrage of the Irish people, which was expressed by the Government and political leaders, concerning the recent appalling attack on an innocent university population in Kenya. Ireland joined with the international community in condemning that outrage.

The ambassador's presentation clearly demonstrates the huge challenges facing Kenya as regards security issues. He will be aware of the international commentary about the Kenyan Government's responses, including the negative comments on particular measures that the Kenyan Government has implemented. These include the bombing of camps in southern Somalia and the decision to erect a fence along the entire Kenyan-Somali border. In addition, there has been criticism of the lack of a strategy to reach out to and engage with communities in the fight against terrorism.

There has also been considerable comment on the need for the Kenyan Government and people to ensure there is no further alienation of the considerable Somali Muslim population in Kenya. A strategy is required to deal with any possible further radicalisation of various communities.

The ambassador might take an opportunity to elaborate on how he sees the actions and the measures taken by his government and how it will deal with those obvious issues.

One other issue of importance is the work of civil society organisations in Kenya. The ambassador will be aware more than any of us of the considerable contribution made by international organisations. Some of our non-governmental organisations have sister organisations working in Kenya and there is some concern in regard to the implementation of the Public Benefits Organisation Act. I think the organisations working there are anxious that there would not be an unrealistic cap put on the level of expenditure and programme activity that they can involve themselves in because Kenya is the headquarters of many non-governmental organisations for their work in Somalia and South Sudan. As we all know, civil society organisations play a very important role, particularly in countries where there is major conflict, terrorism or where there have been humanitarian issues and disasters. I would like to get an assurance from the ambassador that the implementation of the Public Benefits Organisation Act will not hinder the very good work undertaken by those organisations. Part of the purpose of the implementation of this Act is greater accountability and transparency. That is an issue we all agree with but that should not be a method of closing down some of the valuable and very important work of those organisations.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I also want to sympathise and empathise with the ambassador on the recent tragic events and, as we have all tried to do, to identify the causes, as we see them, perhaps from a distance. Unfortunately, international terrorism, which has now become a matter of fact, is wreaking havoc on many innocent people across the globe and Africa is no exception. I wonder whether the time has come for a much more co-ordinated approach, not necessarily leaving the burden of responsibility to any one country because I do not think any one country is capable of dealing with the situation. As long as international terrorists have safe havens to go to, they will continue to do what they have done to an even greater extent, simply because they have access to unlimited funds, unlimited arms and organisational ability, which, sadly, will be used to destroy innocent lives and wreak havoc on the economies of the countries they target. Unfortunately, damage can be done internationally to the reputation of countries that become the victims of mindless acts of terrorism because investors do not wish to be associated with places like that.

If the African Union can be utilised to confront this particular threat, that should be done at an early date. There should be no delay. The commitment needs to be there right from the very beginning, otherwise this kind of thing will go on with disastrous consequences and continued loss of life.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan

I extend my sympathy to the families of the university students who died. Following the tragic death of a young Irish woman recently, who was at university abroad, we know the effects of her death on her family and on our population. Were the 147 all Kenyan or did they come from other countries also? I chair the Irish section of AWEPA, so we have had a lot of engagement with parliamentarians from Africa. We had a conference some months ago which was about internal migration within Africa and I do not think there is enough emphasis on the extent of internal migration which is affecting every African country. We see what is happening in South Africa at the moment and the tensions there with migrant groups. Looking at Kenya, it comes down to how to engage with the migrant groups coming into Kenya so that they feel part of society and they are not alienated.

I have a question on young people - we know there are massive issues around youth unemployment in Europe, but particularly in Africa - and how those disaffected youth can be engaged in positive ways through education, training and employment, because they are the target for radicalism. How active a role are religious leaders playing with these youth so that they engage in positive activities rather than negative ones? What effect will closing the Dadaab refugee camp have on people who are there?

The last question is on the funding of al-Shabaab. It is getting money because it could not run those operations without significant funding. Is the ambassador confident that some of the measures he has outlined will close off channels of funding to these groups?

There are concerns that this tragedy could have been prevented if security forces had moved more quickly, and we have had similar situations in this country where tragedies might have been prevented. While it will not bring back the 147 people who lost their lives, there are lessons for the future.

Chairman

Will the ambassador respond to those three sets of questions? Deputy Crowe will lead off on the next set of questions.

H.E. Mr. Richard Opembe

I will start with the first question from Deputy Smith. There has definitely been international outrage about what transpired in Kenya and certain comments have been made. Based on this, the position Kenya has taken is quite clear. We need to remember Kenya has ensured that certain activities being perpetrated by these terrorist concerns and groups are being addressed. I refer the committee to the piracy that was ongoing on the Suez Canal, which caused international outcry on the trading route. Kenya took measures to ensure that was quelled.

I refer to the Public Benefit Organisation Act. Kenya has put its case forward and stated clearly that non-governmental actors in Kenya making valid contributions towards assistance on the humanitarian level are most welcome. We have an NGO society that comprises in excess of 4,000 organisations engaged in various activities to assist on a humanitarian level. The funding of these concerns must be accounted for and they must be accountable because these resources are obtained from donors in other countries who give willingly in the hope that a project specified for that utilisation will be executed. Unfortunately, the records of these public benefit organisations are not well kept. The government has stated clearly that if an organisation is involved in a humanitarian engagement, it really does not have anything to hide. All we want to know is: is the organisation registered? Is it complying with its mandate as a charitable concern? Is it accounting for the moneys that it is receiving from those people who are supporting it? Is it ensuring that it is going to the beneficiaries and is this money being used in a sustainable manner? Some of these concerns utilise this money to enrich themselves.

The amount of money that is used for administrative costs and requirements far exceeds what goes to the beneficiaries of that charity or contribution. Looking at what actions we are taking and taking into context the civil society, the Kenyan Government is not in any way cancelling negotiations or discussions with the civil organisations. We are willing to discuss with them and we are willing to listen to them but we are also stating clearly that we have a challenge and it is a two-way traffic. The Kenyan Government has engaged with Ireland and the humanitarian and non-governmental concerns of Ireland to find ways and means in which we can work together. We are, as I mentioned in my presentation, working on the Nyumba Kumi initiative, which involves public policing. At this moment in time, some of our officers are undertaking a course in Templemore on that aspect. We are very appreciative of what Ireland is doing for Kenya in that regard.

I understand he has left the meeting, but Deputy Durkan raised valid concerns. We are moving towards ensuring that we have a co-ordinated approach. We are looking at it being done with consideration for the communities and nations within the area. There is the East Africa community area and the larger neighbouring states in that area. However, when we are looking at the al-Shabaab, what is the objective? It is to initiate sustained attacks in any way it can that affect the economy of our nation. This has been realised. It is now a known and challenging fact that our tourism sector is suffering because of these attacks.

The travel advisories are also affecting the nation. Once these attacks are perpetrated, we find that the hoteliers and the tourism attractions, which are mainly in the coastal region, suffer from a depletion. The international tourism community does not want to come to Kenya because of the red alerts, travel advisories, negative publicity and all manner of non-support. This does not allow Kenya to move forward. We have a big problem in that area and we would appreciate if the international community would evaluate the economic damage that some of these travel advisories are having on Kenya.

If we look at the coastal area of Kenya, where we have a huge Muslim population, the number of people who have lost their jobs in the hotel industry and the value-add industry spinning off from the tourism industry exceeds 25,000. These people cannot now find a reasonable and decent form of livelihood. They have experience in the hospitality industry, but are now being easily radicalised. They are being made part and parcel of a terrorism concern, organisation, unit, or club, or for that matter, society. This is a big problem, but we have the African Union Mission known as AMISOM, and which includes Kenya, Uganda, Burundi and Somalia. These countries are making their contribution towards stabilisation programmes for Somalia.

Deputy O'Sullivan asked whether the 147 people referred to were Kenyans or of other nationalities. Garissa University was a newly opened university and its enrolment was purely Kenyan students coming from various regions within the republic. Many came from the western part of the republic. Others came from the central and coastal part, inclusive of the north eastern part, which is basically within the Garissa area. When we look at internal immigration, Kenya has been a country which has been very accommodative. We have had to shoulder many of the immigrants or refugees coming in from Somalia as a result of the destabilisation of the government structures there. From South Sudan, we have two of the largest camps in the world. The Kakuma camp is in the western part of the country on the border with Sudan. We also have the Dadaab camp, which houses more than 600,000 refugees. This camp has exerted a lot of pressure on the economy of Kenya and contributed greatly to the environmental degradation of that area.

Since 1991, we have been continuously cognisant of the problem in Somalia. This camp has been open for the past 24 years and, in conjunction with various humanitarian organisations, NGOs, the United Nations humanitarian effort and the United Nations commission for refugees, we have been associating in ways and means to ensure that at least some form of assistance is given to these refugees, that they have sanitation, water and a way to get an education and that they can create a livelihood within these camps. The strain has been excessive and we are now looking at ways and means to come up with a tripartite agreement, between Kenya, Somalia, and the United Nations, to find ways and means within which we can either close the camp so that these refugees can be moved back to their country and from there be incorporated into the well-being, development and economic good of their own country.

The camps, for reasons best known to the terrorists, have been infiltrated by the al-Shabaab. It is now using these camps and the individuals within these camps, more particularly, the youth, to radicalise them. In certain instances, religious leaders from Somalia have infiltrated these camps and are perpetrating the acts of organising attacks on Kenyans in the coastal region. The committee will note that there was a time when these attacks were mainly in the city of Nairobi. There were bombs and improvised explosive devices in Nairobi. The security measures which have been taken have now made it not possible for these strikes to be perpetrated within the cities. Now they are further in towards the border between Kenya and Somalia.

Many efforts are also being made towards ensuring that the Kenyan Government, acting with the religious leaders and through the various means of information and engagement, is making the people there aware that the government is working towards their betterment. We are not working towards their detriment. We have never done so and we do not intend to do so.

Deputy Seán Crowe

I welcome the ambassador and extend to him a céad míle fáilte on behalf of myself and my party, Sinn Féin. I understand he took up his post in January 2015. We were all horrified by some of the attacks mentioned here this morning, including the Westgate Mall in Nairobi and the Garissa University attacks. There were also some 140 or 150 other attacks by al-Shabaab in the country since it joined AMISOM. There was outrage, anger and frustration. Some of that anger and frustration concerned the poor security response to the attacks.

We were told the security forces were slow to react to the attack at Garissa University. There were reports the journalists reached the university before the elite army and police squads. A high ranking police official has been accused of using a police plane for a personal errand to fly his daughter and daughter-in-law from Mombasa to Nairobi, which caused the commandos to respond 12 hours after the al-Shabaab attack. I have read that nine security officials have been suspended, pending an investigation. When is the investigation expected to conclude and will it be made public?

The ambassador mentioned there were 600,000 refugees in the Dadaab refugee camps. Other figures put it at 350,000 Somali refugees. The Kenyan Government is looking at ways and means to close the camp. A target of three months has been set to close the camp because of an environmental problem and that it is being used for recruitment to terrorist organisations. How does one move that number of people and where is it proposed that they will go?

UNHCR has described the plan as abrupt and warned that it will have extreme practical humanitarian consequences. Surely sending the refugees back to Somalia puts them at risk of human rights abuses, rape, killing as well as extortion and so on, many of the abuses from which they were fleeing originally. The UN has said that if the refugees were forced to return it would be in breach of international law and it would not facilitate such a move. I believe that Kenya is a signatory to the UNHCR 1951 Refugee Convention which prohibits forcing refugees back to areas where their life or freedom is threatened. How does Mr. Richard Opembe square that circle? Many have been in the camp for years. They have fled from ongoing conflicts and famine. Will forcing the refugees to return to their homeland not be seen as a victory for al-Shabaab?

Kenya made international headlines when it passed the Marriage Act in 2014 which legalised polygamy. During the debate on the controversial Bill, female MPs stormed out angrily from the late night parliamentary session. The Bill initially allowed the first wife the right to veto the husband's choice of additional spouses but again male MPs successfully pushed to get that clause dropped. Will he comment on why the Bill was brought forward? Would he not agree that women in polygamous unions face additional barriers to realising their rights to equality, including standards of living, housing and health?

What is happening in Kenya? I was in Tanzania recently and one does not have the same problems there or in many societies that are more inclusive. It is not only that al-Shabaab invaded the country, but there is a problem in Kenya itself. That terrorist group is recruiting young people in Kenya at present. Some of those involved in the last attack were Kenyan citizens. Is part of the problem not just a security response but does the government need to build a new and a more inclusive society?

The Public Benefits Organisations Act 2013 specifically caps the foreign funding for NGOs at 15% of their total budgets. Again my understanding of what the NGOs have been doing is trying to help build civic society. If this cap is introduced, one will see thousands unemployed and this will impact on civic society building, which is of major importance for any society. Rather than dealing with the current problems the direction the Kenyan Government is taking will isolate and alienate Kenya even more. In regard to the movement of Somalis and the movement against the Muslim population, surely that will exacerbate the problem within Kenyan society and not only make conditions worse but further threaten Kenyan society.

Deputy Eric Byrne

I welcome the new ambassador, His Excellency, Mr. Richard Opembe. Having read his contribution and listened to his presentation, I wish him every success in his new position. I wish his country every success in rolling back the horrors of what is happening to Kenya. I lived in Africa for four years and I am still trying to come to terms with the complexities of the Continent of Africa and its individual countries, such as Kenya. I would be very familiar from travelling with the area around Mombasa up along the coast to Malindi and having a most wonderful time on Lamu Island and in Garissa before there was a university in that area. I am reasonably familiar with the terrain.

We in the west are finding it very difficult to come to terms with the activity of Boko Haram in Nigeria and al-Shabaab in Kenya and Somalia. We want to extend our sympathy to the former Kenyan ambassador to Ireland whose son was slaughtered in the Westgate Mall atrocity. What I am trying to understand is ethnicity and the cultural issues that are at play in Kenya, in particular the religious conflicts that seem to be extending across Africa but I will concentrate on Kenya.

We know that Mombasa is multicultural with phenomenal diversity, however, how does one explain the hatred for "western education"? How does one explain that terrorists would isolate Christians or other non-ethnic groups and assassinate them brutally? Broadly speaking, Kenya is an educated nation. What forces are at play that are trying to undermine the educational development in Africa? It is clear that the terrorists attack the fundamentals of tourism. Africa relies very heavily on foreign direct investment through tourism. The ambassador has mentioned it. As he knows, Kenya is a beautiful country and very attractive to tourists. Does he think there is a deliberate ploy to undermine the economy of African countries, including Kenya, by targeting their ability to attract inward investment?

We hear about the cultural corruption of so many countries, but particularly when it comes to politics and ethnicity. Is corruption part and parcel of the way of life of those in power in politics in Kenya? If that is a fact, does he agree that it undermines the very fabric of society? Does the ambassador agree that the ability to reform society in Kenya is more difficult if people like al-Shabaab can say that those in power are a corrupt shower of buggers, that corruption is widespread? Can he explain the horrors of the young terrorist who was the very well educated young son of a prominent Kenyan, while we are being led to believe that the terrorists are ignorant and are influenced by the Mullahs or by the religious leaders in the Muslim faith?

Is it the case that Christians are availing more of the educational services that are available and, therefore, are more economically powerful, which is leading to resentment on the part of ethnic groups and their tribal leaders who are not benefiting to the same extent? In the ambassador's view, does the Muslim community avail of Western educational services to the same extent as the Christian community does, or is there an in-built conflict there?

The ambassador indicated that his country wants to move the refugees in the Dadaab camp back to Somalia. Would this not be a mistake solely on the basis of logistics? If the refugees are on Kenyan soil, the authorities there have reasons to police and manage them. If these people are sent back to Somalia, that ability to monitor, for intelligence purposes and so on, is lost. If the Kenyan Government does send the refugees back to Somalia - the ambassador says there are 600,000 of them; other sources say there are 350,000 - it will surely have lost an important intelligence ability.

Sometimes, because I know Africa so well, I feel guilty about talking about it from this room in Ireland. It might be because of Kenya's participation in the African Union that it is now a victim of terrorism from Somalia, which resents the forces who are aligned under that union. I wish the ambassador well and all those on the African continent who are fighting terrorism. We are anxious to get a handle on the forces at play which are undermining his country and its economy.

Senator Jim Walsh

I welcome the ambassador and wish him well on his appointment. We have all followed with alarm what is happening right across parts of Africa, including Kenya, and the Middle East. Every right-thinking person is revolted to see young students with their lives ahead of them and all their ambitions to be realised being slaughtered in the manner in which they were in Kenya. The victims were separated because they were Christians and killed as such. That is a common feature of many of these types of atrocities.

I note some of the measures the Kenyan Government is putting in place to tackle terrorism mirror actions we took in this country. However, I wonder, given the internationally embedded nature of terrorism right across the regions concerned, whether Kenya alone, or any single country, can deal with it. The ambassador described plans to sequester and freeze bank accounts, which is something that was done effectively in Ireland with the introduction of the Criminal Assets Bureau. I saw a report recently in The New York Times which indicated that Daesh has an annual income in the order of $2 billion per year. Anything the Kenyan Government does will merely scratch the surface of that. There appears to be at least some links, however tenuous, between many of these groups. Boko Haram was mentioned, as well as al-Shabaab and Daesh. All of these groups are interconnected to a degree and are all comprised of radicalised individuals.

Will the ambassador comment on the assistance, or lack of same, Kenya is receiving? We have heard a lot of soundbites coming from Western governments, including our own Government, the European Union, the United States and so on. However, some of the countries making these pronouncements were actually instrumental in the rise of this radicalism when they moved into situations where they perceived a threat. Now, when there is a real threat, they seem to be standing back and, like spectators on the sideline, commenting but doing nothing. That is a disgrace in a context where young, innocent people are in grave danger and, such as in the case of the Christians from Ethiopia who fled through Libya, being slaughtered by terrorists.

The United Nations is very good at trying to impose a certain radical feminist agenda on African countries, which is alien to their culture. I do not see that organisation being as strongly focused on these real issues, where the loss of innocent lives is happening. Will the ambassador comment on that?

I note that the co-chairs of the UN committee which is dealing with the new sustainable development goals are the Irish ambassador and the Kenyan ambassador to the UN. We welcome this close engagement with Kenya on the issue.

This meeting is not necessarily an occasion for putting Kenya or its policies under the microscope. The ambassador's country, like our own, has deficiencies in the manner of its administration and its policies. However, the fundamental problems we are discussing today are of such a monumental scale that our focus should be exclusively on them to see how they can be eradicated. The ambassador referred to radicals moving into refugee camps. It is easy to radicalise people who are very poor. What types of law and order structures are in operation within the camps? Do they come under the remit of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, UNHCR? Some of us have visited such camps, including the Zaatari refugee camp in Jordan, which was home to 120,000 refugees when we were there. I understood that number subsequently increased to at least 150,000. There were no police at the camp. The people running it were aware that Christians had to pretend they were Muslim to avoid being killed. Women were being raped and forced into prostitution. How well managed and policed are the camps in Kenya? What would the ambassador like to see the international community doing to assist as distinct from what it is saying about the situation?

Chairman

I invite the ambassador to respond.

H.E. Mr. Richard Opembe

Thank you, Chairman. I will begin with Deputy Crowe's questions. We have a very good programme in Kenya to ensure, first and foremost, that we act in the interest of the nation and its people and the international community. Since 1991, when this problem emerged in Somalia, the international community has ably supported these camps and contributed extensively to them. It has made every possible human contribution to keep these refugees from Somalia alive and ensure they are able to continue living in some form of dignity within the borders of Kenya, including at the Dadaab camp. The United Nations has played an exceptional role in keeping the camps habitable by providing for sanitation requirements and medical education and ensuring the individuals who are accommodated there are part and parcel of the internal community of Kenya.

The Deputy asked about the security situation, with particular reference to the Garissa attack.

An attack is an attack and the response to an attack is subject to the conditions that prevail in that attack. Garissa is 360 km away from Nairobi. Questions have arisen regarding the decision to have the internal security Minister and the local police chief in place in Garissa before a direct unit went in. Does one set up a command centre first or an attack programme? Members will recall the Westgate tragedy where there was a co-ordination slip that resulted in both the military and the police being in the same place seeking out the same objective. We did not intend to make that mistake again. That is why the decision was taken to set up a command centre first to ensure that any action thereafter was well co-ordinated and executed within the shortest possible timeframe. Westgate took four days; Garissa took 15 hours.

I will turn now to another issue of concern, namely the allegations that police officers made personal use of helicopters. I will not comment on this until the investigations are concluded. I am sure that a proper report will be submitted on that issue and will indicate what actually transpired.

Will al-Shabaab become a victor? Al-Shabaab will never be victorious in anything because whatever it does cannot signify any victory in any way whatsoever. It is not a victory when the sanctity of life is destroyed. Al-Shabaab does not merit any recognition by international governments or the Kenyan Government. It is a grouping of people who are perpetrating heinous acts that cannot be allowed to continue. The Kenyan Government will ensure that each and every element of al-Shabaab is dealt with.

In terms of Kenyan society and the place of religion, we do not and have never segregated along religious lines. We have never considered sending Somalis back to Somalia. In historical terms, there are Kenyan Somalis. We have a border with Somalia. We have shared interests with Somalia for many years and we continue to trade with Somalia.. No statement has been made by any Kenyan to the effect that we consider Somalis in Kenya as anything other than Kenyan citizens and our brothers and sisters.

The marriage Bill is still a Bill; it is not yet an Act and it is not enshrined in our constitution. The constitution of Kenya gives citizens their human rights and the freedom to engage fully, freely and without any inhibition. The Government of his Excellency, President Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta, has made gender parity one of the pillars of its manifesto. I made reference earlier to the Uwezo Fund and the Women Enterprise Fund. The Government of Kenya ensures that 30% of contracts are awarded to women and women's groups in order to build them up economically and to ensure that they are part and parcel of Kenyan society and equal citizens within the country.

Regarding NGOs and the loss of jobs, employment sustains people and provides them with an income. NGOs working within Kenya must be registered to be recognised and those employed by NGOs must benefit from the work they do. It is a requirement that they be registered and if they have nothing to hide then they must meet that requirement. If they fail to meet that requirement and continue with their work in the country, they are not in compliance with the regulations as set down. If all of the 4,000 NGOs are doing the job they came to Kenya to do, then all 4,000 should be registered and all those who have been employed by those NGOs should continue with their work. However, if they do not comply with the requirements set out, then it will be difficult for them to continue functioning.

In response to Deputy Eric Byrne, freedom of religion in Kenya is a constitutional right. The right to worship, freedom to worship, freedom of association and freedom of expression are all enshrined in our constitution. Al-Shabaab has been viewed as a Somali outfit, a terrorist organisation and a religious concern but it is none of those things. It is merely a grouping of criminals who do not respect the sanctity of life. Its members are criminals who shall be dealt with on a criminal basis. When they engage they separate Muslims from Christians and kill Christians in the name of a religious pursuit but they have never expressed what that pursuit is. They have never indicated who they are targeting or what their aims and objectives are. What do they want to realise? Al-Shabaab does not have one iota of respect for human life. The acts perpetrated by al-Shabaab in Kenya include the killing of 11 minors, 28 teachers and 147 university students in the north-eastern region as well as the detonation of explosives in several cities which have maimed many Kenyans.

They have contributed towards the economic decline of the tourism sector in Kenya, but their objective is unknown. We cannot pretend we want to engage with a group of criminals or that we can sit at a table and agree that their religious pursuit and attempts at radicalisation are something we can discuss. We cannot discuss any of these things with these criminals. They are not people who are worth our attention but they are people whom we shall pursue to ensure that safety is brought back to our country and that they will no longer be able to engage in these terrorist acts in Kenya.

I was asked whether education was being used as a weapon by al-Shabaab to bring about tension between those who are educated and those who are not educated. That has not been the position. Members who have already been to Kenya will know that the intention of al-Shabaab to create religious animosity has not worked and never will work. We have Somalis of Kenyan extraction in Nairobi and throughout Kenya, but never has a Kenyan, whether Somali, Bantu or Nilotic, or from western, eastern or southern Kenya, lifted an arm to attack a Muslim because of the al-Shabaab attacks. Religious radicalisation is not aimed at Muslims or Christians. Their target and objectives are unknown, so the people of Kenya simply look at the members of al-Shabaab as what they are - criminals who represent no religious cause.

The educated young lawyer who was involved reminds me of Osama bin Laden, who was also very well educated and very wealthy but was responsible for the setting up of al-Qaeda. We do not consider that education is part and parcel of the reason al-Shabaab is engaging in these activities. Education has never been an issue, nor has religion been propagated by al-Shabaab.

On the subject of the camp, I was asked how long was too long. How long is too short? From 1991 to date is 24 years and the Kenyan Government is now re-evaluating the whole Dadaab camp and looking at ways to ensure that the inhabitants of the camps are given safe passage back to their country to make a contribution to the economic growth of their country. AMISOM is there and there is a Somali national Government. There is a functioning economy. It may not be as good as we would like, but considering the situation it has been in for 24 years, that is perhaps to be expected. There must be a way, and we are working with the EU and the United Nations to that end. A ministerial briefing states that Kenya, Somalia and the United Nations High Commission for Refugees are to sit under a tripartite agreement to look at the modalities within which these refugees can be repatriated to their country in the most humane manner possible. We must take full cognisance of the fact that this is a humongous task, but some have willingly returned and there are those who continue to yearn to return. They must be facilitated and a programme must begin to bring this about.

Senator Walsh asked me a question. It is Kenyans who have died, whether they were students, miners, teachers or day-to-day workers. Three hundred and eighty-four have passed on, many have been maimed and many others psychologically injured by these acts. I appreciate the sentiments, but when do we start looking at the situation realistically and holistically? How can we help bring about a semblance of normality in Somalia? Do we continuously listen to the soundbites emanating from certain quarters? We are taking steps.

Someone mentioned the Daesh and the amount of money it has. In my presentation I indicated that the Kenyan Government has monitored and closed 86 foreign exchange concerns, because that is probably where some of their money comes from. This money is what propels terrorist activities.

The travel advisories concerning Kenya have had an adverse effect on the economy, and one must ask the question of whether the travel advisories would be better placed on Somalia than Kenya. We are the victim and, by virtue of that, we seek the international community's understanding that these advisories are having a damaging effect on our economy. We should not be in this position, and Kenya's role in trying to quell the conflict and bring a semblance of peace to Somalia should be commended. Nobody is talking about piracy any more, yet a couple of years back it was given huge attention. Nobody is addressing that now because the Kenyan defence forces did their job and got the situation under control, so that piracy is now negligible.

I have already said we are taking steps to deal with the refugee camp of Dadaab with the tripartite group involving Kenya, Somalia and the UNHCR. I was asked what I and the Kenyan Government want to be done. In my statement I said we looked forward to initiating consultations with the international community on the best ways to ensure that this act of al-Shabaab is dealt with and the security situation in Africa is improved.

Chairman

I thank the ambassador for going through the questions in a very comprehensive manner. I wish him well in his role here and we hope his country finds peace and can deal with the terrorism threat. We also hope that countries will lift the travel advisory notice over time, because Kenya is a beautiful country with a beautiful coastline, mountainous regions and the Great Rift Valley. We look forward to working closely with him in the future. The ambassador may now leave.

H.E. Mr. Richard Opembe

Thank you.