Before we continue, I was given notice by Deputies McManus and Connolly that they wish to raise certain issues. I wish to facilitate them before the Order of Business begins in the Dáil.
Business of Joint Committee.
I thank the Chairman. This morning, we were shocked by information on RTE that five nursing homes will be closed to new admissions by the HSE. The nursing homes were also instructed to advise private patients they will not be accepted either. This is a matter of serious concern. Information is not made publically available in an appropriate way to reassure people they can have faith in the system.
Legislation is still somewhere in the pipeline. It will be quite a while before that legislation is passed. It will not be started until the New Year, and we know passing legislation is a lengthy process, which is right. I ask the Chairman to invite Aidan Browne from the HSE and the key people running the existing inspectorate system, flawed as it is, to come before the committee for a full and frank discussion on how patients and residents of nursing homes who are at risk will be protected.
The legislation is crucial and we must wait to see what it will contain. In the meantime, this situation is unacceptable. Two of the five nursing homes are in my county but we do not know which they are. Every nursing home in County Wicklow is under a cloud and people are anxious. Yesterday, an elderly couple who want to move into a nursing home phoned me to ask how to choose one. It is difficult to answer that question. We cannot be satisfied the system is working.
Rather than get into a discussion on the matter now, I take the point made. It is alarming that the management of five more nursing homes is now under scrutiny. We will accede to that request. It is in all our interest to have that discussion.
I thank the Chairman.
I assure Deputy McManus we will be in contact with Aidan Browne and will bring him before the committee at the first available opportunity.
Will the Chairman invite the Secretary General of the Department, Michael Scanlon, and those who will draw up the legislation before the committee to discuss the High Court decision on frozen embryos? The door is now open to legislate for in vitro fertilisation. At present, as Deputy Henry pointed out on many occasions, it is not regulated. It is important the committee meets those devising the legislation at the earliest possible occasion. The Department is responsible for this area.
I have no problem with that. The reflection that this committee is not doing its business is most unfair. This committee cannot be charged with introducing new legislation or making judgment on the court's decision. We need further advice on this matter. It is correct to bring in Michael Scanlon. I agree with that.
If we bring in Aidan Browne from the primary, community and continuing care services directorate, can we also bring in the former CEO and the former head of the nursing home inspection unit of the same health board? Do we have the power to do so?
We do not have a compelling power but we can invite them to come before the committee. If that is Deputy Twomey's request will he forward the names to the Clerk? Obviously, in the letter of invitation we must state the issue to be discussed and we must clarify that.
I presume the issue for discussion will be the Leas Cross report. The two individuals involved made submissions to that report. In the Dáil, the Taoiseach tried to imply that only one Leas Cross type incident occurred. Within 24 hours, he must face the fact the HSE——
He did not imply it only happened at Leas Cross.
He was very much——
It all depends on where one sits in the Dáil when such remarks are made.
We will get the record of the Dáil if the Chairman had difficulty understanding what the Taoiseach stated.
I understand him. I just wondered whether Deputy Twomey did.
Interpretation.
Within 24 hours he must eat his words with the news of these five further nursing homes. This is extremely serious. The vast majority of nursing homes do a fantastic job. They are all dragged down by the few mentioned.
We must move on. We want to show our concern and bring order to the matter.
Are we discussing item No. 4 or 5?
Deputies McManus and Connolly asked to raise issues before the presentation begins, which I will facilitate due to the pressure on Thursday mornings caused by the Order of Business. We can deal with a matter that can be quickly addressed now. Otherwise, we can discuss it after the presentation.
Regarding item No. 5, the Chairman stated the committee has no compelling power. The public sees us as the protector of their rights. Perhaps we are only a talking shop if we do not have compelling powers to bring people before us or to do something when they are before us. I question our existence. Our only role seems to be to highlight issues and gain media attention. We are a conduit and forward matters on. Often, we do not have punching power after we do so.
Let us be clear, we do not have compelling power. We cannot compel anyone to come before us. We can do no more than invite people before the committee unless the CPP makes changes.
Yesterday, the Minister chastised a Deputy in the House for raising an issue about a hospital patient, which I regularly do. Quite often, a person's condition will change if they are on a waiting list for ten or 18 months. If a person brings fresh information to me, I feel morally bound to raise the issue with the hospital or medical person. Yesterday, we were told the Minister wants to take this out of the system. I understand the point made on political interference. However, if one is given news on a person's worsening condition, we are obliged to raise the matter with the relevant medical personnel.
We cannot change our position. Only the CPP can do so. People are waiting to make presentations.
I suggest we set aside ten or 15 minutes at the next meeting to plan who we will invite before the committee over the coming weeks. Members can write to the committee in advance of it.
That is agreed. Our next meeting is Thursday, 23 November. We can meet at 9.20 a.m.
Regarding the point on what the media stated about the frozen embryo issue, the Commission on Assisted Human Reproduction was referred to the committee by the Minister for Health and Children. As far back as July 2005, I and other members of the committee made clear we had no jurisdiction over the constitutional issues raised. We stated a pressing need existed for legislation on IVF services. For whatever reason, no action was taken on those concerns. We should correct the record and state we raised the issue. The Department of Health and Children came before the committee and made it clear that constitutional issues were raised but we had no control over them.
The Deputy remembers all this committee decided was to go through each recommendation. We also met with Professor Donnelly for information purposes. There was no other reason. I want to move on because the record has been corrected from Deputy Twomey's perspective and I have set out the committee's position.