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JOINT COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILDREN debate -
Wednesday, 6 Jul 2011

Departmental Role and Functions: Discussion with Minister for Children and Youth Affairs

I welcome the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, and her officials to the meeting. This is the first meeting of the joint committee in regard to the role and function of the new Department of Children and Youth Affairs.

The purpose of this meeting is for the Minister to outline her policy priorities for the coming year. We are all excited about the establishment of this new joint committee, the majority of members of which are anxious to see this new Department developed and enhanced. We look forward to working closely with the Minister over the coming months and years. I now invite the Minister to make her opening statement.

I thank the joint committee for the invitation to attend before it today. I take this opportunity to wish all members of the joint committee and Chairman, Deputy Denis Naughten, all the best in their work. I look forward to constructive engagement with the joint committee. I know that people are supportive of the new Department and interested in its work. It is great that so many Deputies and Senators here today. I thank them for attending today's meeting.

I welcome the opportunity to come before the joint committee to outline my work to date, which is what I have been asked to do, in regard to the establishment of the new Department of Children and Youth Affairs and to set out my priorities in this regard. As Minister, I am determined that our children's interests will be objectively assessed and passionately articulated within Government. We have seen in the past the enormous individual and social cost of ignoring the rights of children. By declaring ourselves committed to a new approach founded upon the interests and potential of the youngest members of our society, we are investing in our future social and economic prosperity. I stress that this is about our social and economic aspects as well as the personal lives of our young children. We are investing in the most precious natural resource in the country, our young people.

To achieve this my Department must have a wide-ranging perspective on the many social and economic policies across Government which relate to children. I will work with colleagues across Government to achieve a policy framework which is in the interests of children. We see in an increasing number of areas, including health, that a whole of Government approach is necessary to achieve results. The new Department brings together policy and programme functions in a wide range of areas. For the information of the committee I will list them, as a number of people have said they did not realise the wide range of work to be done by the Department. They include child protection and welfare; children's and youth participation; youth affairs and youth work; early childhood care and education; family support; the Irish youth justice service; the National Educational Welfare Board; and adoption and fostering. These are the areas on which we currently focus but the Department's role will develop over time.

The Department was formally established at the start of June on foot of a Government order which also transferred a significant range of functions to me as Minister. Further transfer of powers will be required by primary legislation and subsequent Government orders, beginning with the Child Care (Amendment) Bill which is to be reintroduced to the Dáil on Report Stage next week. Transfer of functions currently resting with the Ministers responsible for health and justice, respectively, will follow, including in particular legislation to establish the child and family support agency, on which I will comment later. My new Department is based in Mespil House and staff have already begun moving. It is hoped to have most of this work completed this month. The Government last week appointed Mr. Jim Breslin as the Department's first Secretary General and I am delighted he has joined me this afternoon. Also with me is Ms Michelle Clarke, who is a specialist child protection adviser and social worker.

The creation of a new Department is challenging, as Members will realise and accept. I am pleased to have been able to make significant progress to date which has enabled me to lay strong foundations for the substantive work of progressing my agenda as Minister. Central to this agenda will be delivering on the commitments contained in the programme for Government, and prime among these is the children's referendum.

For the benefit of this committee let me reaffirm the Government's absolute commitment, as provided for in the programme for Government, to bring before the people a proposed amendment of the Constitution to strengthen the protection of the rights of children along the lines recommended by the all-party Oireachtas committee. Our Constitution strikes a balance between personal rights, the status of the family, the rights and duties of parents and the power of the State as guardian of the common good. My aim is simple. It is to bring forward an holistic and composite response to the long-identified need to strengthen our Constitution to copperfasten children's rights and safeguard their well-being. I have already met people involved in the different sectors in our country related to children, such as education, health and child care. They all support that need and at the same time support families.

We will take our time and get it right, and I hope that early next year, when we bring our comprehensive amendment before the people, we will have the support of all parties. The referendum will give constitutional protection to our children, but the Constitution or a change to the Constitution will not alone protect children from the abuse which has been revealed in recent years or abuse which continues to come to light.

It is my intention to ensure every report into this national shame is published. I advise the committee that in conjunction with my colleague, the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, and barring any further legal complication, we propose to begin by publishing next week the report of the commission of investigation into the diocese of Cloyne. The HSE audit of Catholic Church dioceses is ongoing and I expect to receive a report in the autumn, and it will be published. I also expect to receive shortly a report from the independent review group on child deaths. Unfortunately, as members know, deaths have occurred of children in care and an independent review group is examining the issue, with Ms Norah Gibbons and Mr. Geoffrey Shannon doing the work. I have no doubt the committee will also examine that report.

These reports, and those that have been published to date, shine a light on some horrific episodes from even our recent past, where as a State and society we failed in our moral duty to cherish and protect our nation's children. My role as Minister is to seek that never again will these evils be countenanced. I will be expecting and demanding that all organisations working with children will accept fully and without question their fundamental responsibilities with respect to child protection. There will be no exceptions or exemptions. However, cognisant of the bitter legacy of past failings, the State, and I as Minister, must ensure robust systems for the implementation and oversight of child protection practices are in place and are complied with.

Central to this will be implementing the recommendations of previous reports, in particular the Ryan report. The country was horrified when the Ryan report was published, given the sad and horrific stories contained within it of child abuse. As Minister I have personally taken the chairmanship of the Ryan report implementation group, and I have also opened the membership to include the Children's Rights Alliance, an umbrella group working with children. I felt it important that we had an outside perspective on the progress of the implementation of the Ryan report. I chaired a meeting of the group this week and I can advise the committee that the second annual implementation report will be laid before the Oireachtas in coming weeks.

I am pleased to see real progress being made on the recommendations and I believe that this work, in particular my plans to bring forward new legislation to support the Children First national guidance, will leave a lasting legacy when it comes to child protection in Ireland. I will be publishing new Children First national guidance very shortly, along with an associated implementation framework prepared by the HSE. That is a very important element as we have had guidelines before which were implemented inconsistently. It is important for us to have guidelines for the protection of children that will be implemented in a very cohesive and consistent way throughout the country. The HSE is also determined that this happens. When they are published it will be alongside an implementation framework which will go into the detail of how the work should be done. I will also be outlining further details with respect to the planned legislation, on which we have made much progress. I will make those announcements shortly.

My Department, in conjunction with the Department of Justice and Equality, is also finalising the heads for the national vetting bureau Bill. The Chair is aware that this legislation has had a difficult preparation but we are very close to finalising the heads for the Bill. Once submitted to the Government, the legislation will be produced.

I will advise the committee on some of the details of the Ryan implementation plan. Additional funding of €24 million has been provided to date to implement the plan, and the initial allocation of €15 million remains in the allocations of the relevant agencies in the current year. A further allocation of €9 million has also been made to provide for implementation of actions specified for 2011. The HSE national service plan for 2011, which the committee will also consider, contains a set of actions for implementation this year, along with actions not completed in 2010. Each of the actions is fully funded and underpinned by approval to recruit the necessary staff. By the end of this year we will have 260 of the 270 proposed additional social workers recruited. People had a great interest in that issue, and I should emphasise that these are additional posts rather than the back-filling of other vacancies, which is proceeding separately. I had confirmation of that this week.

Some of our most at-risk children, who have been in detention and special care units, have not had the sort of assessment they needed as there is no comprehensive assessment system in place for these children. I was very concerned about that area and I am pleased that we are now filling 29 posts to deliver assessment and therapeutic services for these children in high support and special care units, as well as children in detention. The professionals will play a key role in addressing the therapeutic needs and best interventions for these young people. These young children have a multiplicity of needs, with many ending up in special care or detention. It is critical for their needs to be assessed properly with the right interventions made. Obviously residential care is costly. It is also very difficult for these children and young people. If we wish to ensure the best plans are laid out for these young people, they must be assessed properly. This was one of the recommendations of the Ryan report. These posts will be in place and assessment will be available to those centres.

After-care is a concern for many members of the committee. A national after-care policy is being developed by the HSE, there is an after-care implementation group in place and ten additional aftercare worker posts are in the process of being filled. Obviously, young people who have been in care do not stop needing help and attention on the day they reach their 18th birthday. We must provide ongoing support. We also have money for the national counselling services as outlined in the report before members.

Another area that requires more attention is the out-of-hours service. There is a crisis intervention service in the Dublin region on a 24-hour basis, seven days a week, but problems have been identified around the country with the lack of this service. There is a new emergency placement service whereby if a child needs a place of safety, there is a single phone number that gardaí can call to make contact with a foster care company which has foster families on call and available nationwide. Clearly, that is for places of safety in an emergency. It will ensure there will not be social admissions to hospitals or Garda station facilities. This is something I have been concerned about in the past, and members of the committee will share that concern. It is important that the practice of young people who are in need of care being admitted to a prison, hospital or psychiatric hospital setting cannot and will not continue. There are two pilot projects involving out-of-hours social work services in Donegal and Cork. These pilot projects are now up and running and will inform the future development of out-of-hours social work services.

It is a priority of the Government to establish a new child and family support agency, to ensure quality services are available for those who need them and to achieve the best outcomes for families and children. It is due to the long-standing concerns about what has been happening in child protection and welfare services generally that we will establish the new child and family support agency. It will be separate from the HSE and will report directly to my Department through its chief executive. This agency will be an important enabler through which I am determined to drive the delivery of integrated child and family services across the State. This is a major piece of work that will not happen overnight. However, we have begun work on it. The agency will play a critical role in delivering quality, accountable services for children in care and in supporting children and families within the community.

As many members will know, this country has not had a good record of agencies working well together. We need to address that to get the best value from the work that is being done and to give the best service to families. Often, as we have seen in a number of case reviews, there has been a multiplicity of workers and agencies working with the same family but the work has not been co-ordinated as it should be. At times, this has put even extra pressure on families. That is something that must be changed. There are very good examples throughout the country of good inter-agency work. Members will have seen it in their local areas. There has been a huge improvement in this area but more work is required.

This will be helped by the establishment of the children's services committees, on which I can elaborate further if members wish. The concept is to establish a child services committee in every county, through which all the agencies working in a county will have regular meetings together to co-ordinate the work being done with children and families to ensure there is the necessary co-operation and inter-agency planning and work to deliver services. This is part of the reform agenda anyway, but it is also the right thing to do to get the best outcomes and provide the best services.

I have outlined other areas in which my Department is involved. The early childhood care and education, ECCE, scheme is a huge support to families throughout the country. It operates at a cost of €166 million in 2011, and 95% of all children of the qualifying age are participating. I would love this scheme to be developed further. Obviously, however, I must operate within the financial constraints under which the rest of the Government is operating. I would like more work to be done for children with special needs and if finance is available, it is an area on which I would hope to see further development. It would make sense in the long run, be good for children and would support parents. In fact, it would probably save on some of the demands for other services.

We must move to a position where children who have particular difficulties receive earlier assessment. I believe the ECCE scheme will help in that regard and ensure that when children move on to primary school, the school is aware of the difficulties the children are experiencing and the type of services they need. Let us take the example of communication disorders. One in three, one in four and one in five children have sight, hearing or speech problems. Everybody knows the demands this places on the child and the family. If we can reach a point where there is early intervention and support, which I believe the ECCE scheme can provide, it will be invaluable to the children concerned. We are committed in the programme for Government to investing in early, targeted childhood education for disadvantaged children. There are three projects under way at present. We hope to find the best practice in that regard, which we will transfer to other areas, resources permitting.

We will also be working on the national children's strategy. I invite members of the committee to contribute to the development of the strategy. That work is to set high level objectives in this area across all Departments. This will be a very important mechanism for achieving integration and collaboration from the policy level to front-line services. I hope we can use the strategy to respond to emerging issues which I have identified as priorities. Member will be aware, for example, that the latest research emerging from the longitudinal study on children shows very worrying data that more than a quarter of all three-year-olds are either overweight or obese. These findings pose a serious challenge which requires a determined and multi-faceted response. The national children's strategy will provide the perfect opportunity to address such high-level objectives. There are other issues as well, such as child poverty and the impact of consumerism on children.

I have given the committee a detailed description of the work being done in the Department on youth affairs and youth work. Members will see the need for a quality standard framework and a national youth policy.

Inter-country adoption is another responsibility of my Department. The Adoption Authority of Ireland was established in November 2010. The authority has responsibility for the direct operational implementation of legislation and Government policy. I have given the committee some details in this regard which might be helpful. I asked members of the authority to visit Vietnam and gather information on how Vietnam intends to implement the Hague Convention and to explore the progress Vietnamese authorities have made in addressing the concerns that were raised previously. It is now a matter for the Vietnamese authorities to decide if they wish to work with Ireland. It is my hope, and indeed expectation, that they will indicate a willingness to work with Ireland. The report I have received from the members of the authority who visited Vietnam shows that significant progress has been made in that country. I am hopeful that, once the Hague Convention is signed and we begin working again with the Vietnamese authorities, there will be a changed situation. It would be a great relief to the many couples who are waiting to hear positive news about Vietnam. I have also given members of the committee some details about Russia and Ethiopia, so I will not elaborate on them now.

The Irish youth justice service is also under my Department. My focus is on ensuring the quality and effectiveness of the services provided by the projects. There are 100 Garda youth diversion projects. These are community-based crime prevention initiatives which seek to divert young people from becoming involved in anti-social and-or criminal behaviour. They are very important initiatives dealing with a group of young people who need a little help if they are not to follow a criminal path and end up in prison. I hope the Irish Youth Justice Service will work with the children's services committees at a local level as well. The National Educational Welfare Board also comes under the Department but I will not go into the detail because it is available to members.

I hope my presentation demonstrates the vast range of policy functions coming under the new Department. I see the creation of this Department as an opportunity. By bringing together all agencies and policy areas, we can transform the way we plan, design and deliver services for children, young people and families. We can break down barriers, promote collaboration, deliver integrated services and secure efficiencies and value. Improving the outcomes, the quality of life and opportunity for all children and young people in Ireland is the goal and the raison d’être of the Department. Establishing a Department of Children and Youth Affairs at this point is a value statement by this Government.

I thank the Minister for her very comprehensive presentation which contained much useful information. I encourage members to ask questions to elicit information. This is a very large committee and we could be here all day if we do not do that. I call Deputy McConalogue.

I thank the Minister for taking the time to address the committee. As I did in the Dáil last week, I wish her well in what is a very important role. I congratulate the Government on the establishment of a separate Cabinet position for children following on from developments over the past while. I also wish the new Secretary General, Mr. Jim Breslin, well in his role which will be challenging in terms of setting up a new Department. I wish him and the staff well in that regard.

I thank the Minister for giving an overview of her policies. I refer to the Children First guidelines and an article in The Sunday Times at the weekend in which the Minister spoke about putting the Children First guidelines on a statutory footing and mandatory reporting. The article mentioned that jail sentences would form part of the mandatory reporting legislation which the Minister expects to bring in. Will she elaborate on her plans in that regard?

We all want to ensure children are protected but we must ensure the system we set up works well and is practical. There have been different experiences in regard to the introduction of mandatory reporting in other countries. In New South Wales in Australia, a state comparable in size to Ireland, the number of reports went from 30,000 to 195,000. Of those, only 12% were substantiated. We must ensure we have a good system in place but if we are to go down that road of mandatory reporting and potential jail sentences in certain cases, it cannot be done if we do not ensure resources are in place because it will change the nature of the caseload and possibly cases as well.

What are the Minister's plans in terms of increasing the number of social workers required to deal with that? In some circumstances, dealing with the cases and the complaints takes up more time than assessing the situation and the nature of the complaint. At the end of the day, we must ensure the child is protected as opposed to a bureaucratic system which is simply not workable. Will the Minister elaborate on that?

The Minister mentioned preschool years. Much progress has been made in that area and the free preschool year has been a key initiative. Much more can be done there in terms of improving quality and putting in place quality control. The Minister is hoping to deal with that incrementally. Will she elaborate on her intentions there?

I join with Deputy McConalogue and the Chairman in extending a warm welcome to the Minister. This is an important first opportunity for the members of the new committee to meet the Minister officially in her new ministerial role. I wish the Minister and her Department every success in all their work as well as her colleagues, Mr. Jim Breslin and Ms Michelle Clarke who have accompanied her, and all her support staff. I hope today will be the first of many fruitful exchanges.

I am very much minded in looking at the range of responsibilities which have been accredited to the Minister's Department directly that there will be a significant tussle, so to speak. There will be many areas that will impact on children which will not come directly under the aegis of her Department. The Departments of Health, Social Protection, Education and Skills and Justice and Equality immediately come to mind. I would have always liked her Department to have had at least some cross-departmental oversight role, if not responsibility. Will she elaborate on that because there will be a number of areas into which she and her colleagues in the new Department would have an important insight to offer?

I know these are early days. There will be much teething and so on but I am anxious to know what the Minister's hope is. I note from her opening remarks that further transfer of powers will be required by primary legislation and subsequent Government orders. There is some anticipation at least of more than just the list that immediately presents in terms of functions of the new Department. This is to begin with the Child Care (Amendment) Bill which will be reintroduced next week and which I welcome.

I wish to reflect on the Minister's comments in her address to the meeting. She very rightly reflected on children leaving State care and after-care. This was one of the areas which we were not able to influence the former Government on. Indeed, the collective Opposition voices all tabled amendments which sought to ensure there was statutory entitlement to aftercare for young people attaining 18 years and who had been in State care. Is the Minister in a position to elaborate on the prospect of that position as articulated in opposition by her party and her colleagues in coalition today? I look forward to that if it is indeed to be the case.

I am very interested to know the Minister's and her new Department's intent in regard to the children's rights referendum. Given that we have come quite a significant distance and that clearly we are going to reach the second anniversary of the publication of the February 2010 third and final report of the Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children with the deferral of the children's rights referendum to 2012, can the Minister give us any indication at this point of her expectation for that referendum proposal to progress in early 2012? In regard to a number of cross-over areas, we are all being lobbied heavily because of the significant concern for children with special needs. What can the Minister hope to do in her new Department for special needs assistants, and on the role of special education needs organisers SENOs, not only in terms of identifying need but being able to respond to it, which is not currently the case? Will the Minister be able to bring her influence to bear in the Department of Education and Skills' role in that regard? What about mental health service for children, an area of major responsibility? As the Minister will be aware, we now have an all-party committee on mental health and on the list of priority focuses for that group, is children and mental health, which is of great concern to many of our number.

In a recent report on the needs of Traveller children, there were 423 referrals of children in direct provision centres. This was a focus of this committee in the last Dáil and on an all-party basis the committee undertook to examine the circumstances of direct provision centres. It has signalled that this will be a continuing interest for this committee. I am highlighting the fact that 423 children have had their situation referred for address across a range of concerns. Five of those children were taken into care by the HSE. Could the Minister comment on that?

Will the Minister give a date to bring into operation the 11600 helpline for children?

I will ask the Minister to come back on that matter. The issue Deputy Ó Caoláin raised on direct provision is an issue that was raised by the committee of the previous Dáil. Another issue of significant concern to members of the committee is that of unaccompanied minors. I know the Department has made progress and I ask the Minister to give the up-to-date on that issue.

I thank Deputy McConalogue for his questions. He referred to the danger of bureaucratic systems and that we could err by taking an overly bureaucratised approach to child protection. That is not the problem in Ireland. Our problem is that we have had major inconsistency. If one reads the Roscommon report, which I know the Chair is very familiar with, the issue is about not having the records that we need and not having a consistent approach. The problem of not taking a consistent approach is what I am seeking to address. There is no real worry at this point about bureaucratising the system. The opposite is the worry. We have to formalise the system more than it is at the moment. The informality of approach as outlined in various reports has not helped children, nor has the inconsistency. The Deputy will be aware that Mr. Gordon Jeyes who is now in position as the director of family policy with the HSE, described the Irish child protection system as not fit for purpose. We have a great deal of work to do and that is the reason I highlighted the number of reports on continuing problems that will land on my desk over the next few weeks and months. To address that in the first instance, I will publish the national guidance for 2011 and that will outline very clearly what people who get reports of child abuse need to do and what action they need to take.

I will bring proposals forward shortly because the national guidance which we are issuing needs to be underpinned by legislation. The Deputy mentioned a report about sanctions. The legislation will deal with a range of sanctions proportionate to what has happened. The sanctions will apply to organisations who do not follow through on the guidance that will be outlined. That will be similar to what is in the guidelines but more developed than the guidelines which have been used over the past ten years if not longer. There will be a range of sanctions proportionate to the offences committed. Equally what we will outline in the legislation will be options around training needs, the needs for agencies to co-operate and there will be a requirement to report. This will be-----

May I interrupt the Minister for a moment? There is a vote in the Seanad. I have a list and I will hold on to the order in it.

There will be a statutory obligation to report and co-operate. This is a different mechanism to mandatory reporting which comes very often with serious criminal sanctions. The national guidance which we will bring out shortly needs to be underpinned by legislation. This has been said by a number of Governments in recent years. Legislation has been promised several times but I will bring forward the outlines of legislation on this. We will consult a range of organisations. The Ryan report also strongly recommends that there be should be legislation underpinning the national guidance.

On the question of special needs and the ECCE scheme, it would be extremely helpful to many children if there was a second year of the ECCE scheme. At present, children with special needs can attend for two years three days in one year and two days the second year. This would be a major support if it was available. I would like to be in a position to deliver on that and it will obviously depend on financial resources. Deputy Ó Caoláin raised this issue as well. It is something we should try to do as resources permit. It has been a very successful scheme with 95% of children of the age cohort using it. Providers are generally very happy about how it is being implemented and supported around the country.

There is scope for providers to come together. We discussed this earlier with some providers from Roscommon as it happens who said they could do with more support systems to help them deliver. I see providers coming together to work and having shared services for payroll and HR and various issues such as that. That would be helpful for the providers in the circumstances.

Deputy Ó Caoláin very rightly raised issues of cross-departmental links and how important they will be. We have begun to look at that. There is more work to be done on it and I would see the social policy committee at Cabinet as being a place where some of those cross-departmental links will take place on particular topics. The Minister for Health suggested for example that one would have a principal officer working on autism and special needs across three or four Departments to progress the work needed in those areas. We have much to learn in Ireland as elsewhere about what ‘a whole of Government approach' looks like and the new ways we can work across Departments. It is part of the reform to which the Government is committed that we would see more of those kinds of links. They are necessary to deliver the services. We need joined-up thinking between Departments. It is certainly something that will be of particular relevance to the Department of Children and Youth Affairs.

In respect of the referendum on children's rights, the Cabinet has not decided at this point on a date for next year, but I emphasise that it is a priority. We must examine the wording again because of the concerns raised. We will go back to the wording of the committee of which the Minister was a member and we will base the referendum on the wording of the Oireachtas joint committee. The joint committee did good work and the wording of the referendum will be based on the report it produced, as opposed to the wording published more recently by the previous Government just before the election which departed significantly from the recommendations of the joint committee. The Attorney General is examining the wording produced by the joint committee as concerns were raised about its implications for the State. The Government wants to progress this issue which is an absolute priority.

On children and mental health, it will be important to have a link with the Department of Health in this area. There are major issues with access to mental health services for young children. The child and adult mental health services, CAMHS, must be integrated into the work of the Health Service Executive. We need to ensure the children coming to the attention of the HSE on the basis of risk or as a result of abuse receive the assessments they need which are provided by the CAMHS. Frequently, inexperienced social workers on the front line are asked to respond to cases involving the most needy children without receiving the supports the HSE must provide. Mr. Gordon Jeyes is conscious of and wishes to address this problem.

The Deputy also raised issues related to after-care. I am concerned about after-care and will address it in the Child Care (Amendment) Bill which will come before the Dáil next week. I am advised by the Attorney General that there is a statutory right to after-care where there is an assessed need. As members are aware, this care is not being provided in all cases. I have informed the Health Service Executive that its policy should be based on this approach as opposed to an assumption that children who reach 18 years are no longer entitled to after-care. Many children in long-term foster care remain in their placement with the financial support of the HSE. Clear guidelines have been issued to the HSE to support children after they reach 18 years based on need. Although not every child will need a service from the HSE, I assure members that in the case of young people who have been in care and continue to have needs when they reach 18 years, the HSE policy is that it will meet assessed needs. Children in foster care often continue to receive support from foster parents. As a number of reports have shown, however, young people who leave residential care are most at risk.

The Deputy also raised the issue of direct provision and unaccompanied minors. While I am not fully briefed on the matter and can, if required, revert to the joint committee on it, I am aware from a study I did that unaccompanied minors have not been treated properly by the State over several years. Procedures have been changed and unaccompanied minors will now receive the same service as that provided to young Irish children and other children who come into care here. Until recently, unaccompanied minors were treated separately outside the system and were sometimes left in dangerous circumstances. The position has improved but I will revert to members with the up-to-date position.

I note the points made on Traveller children, one of the most disadvantaged groups of young people. The statistics on health and life expectancy are frightening in respect of the Traveller community in general.

I asked about the 116 telephone line.

As the Deputy is aware, the 116 telephone line is not yet in place. I have started discussions with the Minister for Justice and Equality to ensure it becomes available. While I do not have a timeframe for its introduction, I will certainly progress the matter.

The Minister is working on it.

Yes. Two weeks ago, I met representatives of a voluntary group interested in providing the service. It believes it could do so at a reasonable cost. As I noted, I have also commenced discussions with the Department of Justice and Equality on the issue, which I wish to progress.

I echo the words of my colleagues in congratulating the Minister on her new role and welcoming the opportunity to meet her.

The establishment of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs is an exciting development because it offers an opportunity to do things differently. I am greatly concerned about the absence of the child's voice. The joint committee has an opportunity to give children a presence in this room. While I welcome the Minister's comments on the implementation of the Ryan report and inviting organisations with a role in this area before us, the committee must work harder by talking to children who have been affected by the failure of the services in place to meet their needs. We should also meet the parents of such children, provided they are willing to come before the joint committee or contribute in some form. This is where real learning will take place. I hope members and the Minister will take this on board. This should be done in a meaningful way because it is important that we avail of this opportunity to do things differently.

I welcome the Minister's statement that she expects everyone to sign up to this deal. In the past, services were provided on an ad hoc basis and personality was a major factor in securing services. This approach must be stamped out and people must sign up to the new approach. Those working in services and on the front line must be given support.

The Minister referred to the establishment of child services committees in each county. While this is a good start, much more work must be done in terms of measuring, guiding and reviewing the progress of the work done by such committees. People who have worked in this sector will be aware that one has networking, professional and planning meetings which do not always achieve outcomes. There is no point in having a meeting for the sake of it. We need to have strict and active case management to ascertain how the various child services committees are progressing through their work so that we ensure the needs of the most vulnerable children, who live in all communities, are met.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. I congratulate the Minister on her appointment. It is refreshing to have before us a Minister who is clearly on top of her brief. Her articulation of her responsibilities should be noted. While other members may suggest that I would say that, I know the Minister well and she is not a Johnny come lately to the issue of children. She is well suited to the position of Minister for Children and Youth Affairs.

As the Minister noted, we must highlight the functions of the new Department because people are probably not aware of them. I have a couple of questions about joined-up thinking because the legacy of the past 14 years has been an absence of such thinking. Will the Government's cross-departmental approach to this issue demonstrate joined-up thinking?

I welcome the Minister's commitment to hold a referendum on children. She is correct to take her time and make sure she gets the wording of the constitutional amendment right. The joint committee will, I am sure, support her in this.

The Cloyne report must be published in full and its recommendations implemented. Will we have regular progress reports on the Ryan report implementation plan? Will boxes be ticked as recommendations are implemented?

It is critical that the out-of-hours social worker service is maintained. A pilot scheme is under way in my area of Cork. When will the report on effectiveness of the pilot scheme be submitted to the Minister?

On inter-country adoptions, I congratulate the Minister on sending departmental officials to Vietnam. That was a very progressive move. It is important to renegotiate and reopen the door for families where adoptions from Vietnam and other countries around the world are concerned. I pay tribute to the Minister and wish her well on that bold initiative. It is important that her Department sets the right tone for families who have been hurt by a failure to have their needs catered for and a recognition that we have probably done things wrong. I ask the Minister to come back on the issue of accreditation regarding the country adoptions. I thank the Minister for her work and wish her and her officials every success.

I congratulate the Minister and her staff on their appointment. It is important that we now have a Minister with specific responsibility for children. I wish to focus on two areas. First is early childhood care and education, which I suspect is probably the most important element of her brief, given that the foundation children get in their lives is so important to how they develop later. I know figures have been presented but I do not think they show the total number of preschool children. I am curious to know what proportion of preschool children are availing of preschool and early childhood education. In regard to some of the projects, such as the young Ballymun project already mentioned, I ask the Minister to keep a watch on how those projects are developing to see what is the best practice and to contrast how those children are doing in comparison with their equivalents elsewhere in the community.

The second issue relates to the National Educational Welfare Board. I have heard some criticism of that from school principals. To what extent does the Minister think it operates effectively in terms of good school attendance? I would make the point, which is not a criticism of the Minister but is a criticism of the National Educational Welfare Board, that I recently tabled two parliamentary questions about school attendance in the Minister's constituency and my constituency but they have not been answered. That is unacceptable. I will get the answers even if I have to submit a freedom of information request. As a public representative I have the right to know how schools are faring in that regard.

As one who has been a teacher for my adult life, in no way do I wish to use such figures to embarrass any school because I realise from my knowledge of schools that they are making a huge effort to encourage children to attend and benefit fully from education. Perhaps the Minister could bring that message back to the National Educational Welfare Board that I and other Deputies are entitled to that type of information. I wish the Minister and her staff every success.

I take the point made by Senator Conway about new ways of working. That is something we want to do as well as pilot new ways of working with other Departments. The new agency gives us a real opportunity to do that and it will be one of the criteria we will use in establishing the new agency. We do not want to do it the same way. Deputy Buttimer made this point also. We want to do things differently to ensure maximum co-operation. In developing the agency and how it will work, we would be conscious of trying to be imaginative about bringing services and Departments together to work to provide best services. Certainly I take the Senator's point.

On child services committees, we have the pilot projects and we are developing a national approach to the children services committees. I take on board what has been said about the monitoring and reporting arrangements and they will be built in to the national guidelines which we will issue. The Deputy is absolutely right. It is important to ask if these committees are working, whether they are effective and what is the best practice. At this point we want a national protocol on how child services will develop. We are close to that given that there have been pilot projects. There is very good experience from around the country. I have met most of the committees who are operating at present. There are slightly different nuances in the way they are operating. For example, some have statutory agencies involved while others have voluntary agencies. We need to decide on the approach and we will do that shortly. I take on board what has been said about accountability in respect of the child services committees, the mechanism for which will be worked out. By coming together there is a monitoring of them in their own right. I take the point made in regard to that issue.

I thank Deputy Buttimer for his good wishes. He made the same point about joined-up thinking across Departments. It is critical and it is a challenge for the whole Government in terms of a whole of Government approach. The Cloyne report will be published but obviously there will be some redaction. It has had to be done legally but it will be published and it is important we learn the lessons from this and the other reports, which I have outlined. I still have to receive a number of repots which will continue to outline difficulties in the area of child protection. I will be getting the report on the review of children who died in care shortly, the HSE audit of dioceses and a number of other reports. There are other reports that will outline some ongoing difficulties and the need for action. That is why what I am saying about the national guidance and the legislation underpinning it is so important.

Deputy Buttimer referred to adoption. We have got the report back from Vietnam. Adoption is in the best interests of children. There are very high rates of inter-country adoption in Ireland. Irish couples want to adopt. We want to ensure standards are maintained in inter-country adoption and that best practice is being upheld in the countries from which children have been adopted. We had our own experience and it is critical we are satisfied about the standards in the countries we are working with. There are many happy families in Ireland who have adopted. I met the Russian-Irish group recently. Some 1,500 children have been adopted into this country from Russia with very good experiences, but we are not in a position to give some details in regard to Russia. There have been very good experiences in respect of inter-country adoption. I am hopeful, once it signs the Hague Convention, that the Adoption Authority would be in a position to work again with Vietnam. We will make a decision on that shortly. It is primarily the Vietnamese who have to want to work with Ireland once it signs the Hague Convention.

The Deputy asked about the Ryan report. The reviews continue for four years and some actions will be on an ongoing basis. I will present that report to the Dáil in the next few weeks. We agreed recently that it will be laid out in the way described to show a clear summary of where progress has been made and the actions that need ongoing attention. I think those were the main points the Senator made.

Deputy Dowds referred to the 63,000 children attending the ECCE scheme, that is 95% of the cohort. There is a very high take-up of this scheme. It is important to maintain standards. We have to work continually to ensure staff are trained and get the supports they need.

The Deputy raised a particular point about the National Educational Welfare Board, school attendance and rates of attendance in particular schools. I will discuss with the NEWB its practice on whether rates of attendance should be publicised. I note the Deputy feels strongly that rates of attendance should be publicised. The concern would be that some schools, perhaps those in more disadvantaged areas, would have high rates of non-attendance and that this would be seen as an unfair comment on those schools.

Some of those principals work extremely hard to get children to attend.

Yes, that is the point I am making, whether it is in the best interest of the children of the school in such an area to publish attendance rates. I have an open mind on the issue, but will discuss it with the NEWB. I am aware the Deputy asked for details, but they were not available. I will discuss and examine the issue and get back to the Deputy on it.

I thank the Minister.

I am quite happy to receive those in a private response, if that makes it easier for the Minister.

I congratulate the Minister on her new role. I get very excited when I see a new Minister with such enthusiasm, great plans and initiative. It is magic. I cannot wait to see the Minister's plans unfold and wish her well.

I welcome the Minister's proposals to help the new child and family support agencies, particularly with reference to children with special needs. The Minister touched on this issue earlier and said, like other colleagues here, that we need a joined-up approach. I am a parent of two children with special needs and I have had major difficulty with the system over the past ten years. I urge the Minister, when preparing for joined-up thinking between the Department of Health, the HSE, the Department of Education and Skills and her new Department, to consider not only the children but also the families of those children because, in my experience, the stress experienced by families with a child with special needs is unlike any other stress. These families find themselves on their own and the only support they get is when they are brave enough to reach out to find other families who have been through the difficulties and come out the other end. An organisation or support mechanism for families of children with special needs would be very much appreciated by parents.

Joined-up thinking on the delivery of services must be child-centred. Some of the services currently provided by the HSE do not complement the services provided by the Department of Education and Skills. This may be because they do not talk to each other. I welcome the Minister's commitment to the overall plan to ensure the services we deliver are child-focused and focused on the parents of those children. It is only in that guise they will be successful. I wish the Minister well.

I welcome the Minister and am delighted to see her here, along with her new Secretary General, Jim Breslin, and her officials. I welcome the establishment of the new Department of Children and Youth Affairs. It is historic for Ireland and Europe to have a Department dedicated to children and young people. When the Vote for the Department is published, we will scrutinise it to ensure the resources are transferred to meet the needs of the Department and to ensure there is no slippage in resources.

May I interrupt the Senator? There is interference from somebody's phone. Will whoever has their phone turned on please turn it off because it is interfering with the audio system?

With regard to the Irish Youth Justice Service, will the Minister clarify whether the new detention centre in Lusk-Oberstown will come under the responsibility of her Department along with the whole of the Irish Youth Justice Service? I welcome the Minister's commitment to the referendum, which is long overdue. She has mentioned the reports that are due to come forward and we have seen some reports in the past. I believe that part of our atonement for the past is showing that we want to strengthen children's rights in the Constitution and acknowledge the failures of the past . We must demonstrate this clearly, so what the Minister has said is important.

The Children First national guidelines and the National Vetting Bureau Bill are equally important, not just their production, but their implementation, because so many reports and documents have been produced on how to protect children in Ireland. I welcome the Minister's commitment to an implementation framework. She also mentioned the aftercare strategy, which I look forward to seeing. In light of the forthcoming report and review on child death, that strategy will emphasise for us the importance of aftercare. Knowing of the situation of children who have died in the custody of the State, I see aftercare as a major issue. Therefore, a national aftercare strategy is particularly important.

On the Ryan report, the implementation group and the monitoring of the plan, as outgoing chief executive of the Children's Rights Alliance, I must acknowledge that the Minister opened it up to an independent voice to be part of the committee that will look at this. I urge that when she publishes the report, that it not be done as it was last year, in silence, and that it is put on the record so that we will have the opportunity to discuss, question and scrutinise it. In that regard, I would like to raise an issue with regard to children with disabilities. Technically, these children are not in the care of the State, although they are cared for by the State. I have been informed this is the result of a legal nicety of the Child Care Act 1991. Will the Minister examine how we can ensure that residential services for children with disabilities can also be inspected by HIQA? This is important because it is an issue that has seemed to be allowed fall aside.

Previous speakers have mentioned the 116 000 "missing children" hotline. I understand that 13 of the 27 EU members states have now put this in place and that it is a commitment within the EU agenda on the rights of the child. I hope Ireland is not the last country to implement this hotline and I urge the Minister to commit to its implementation here.

There should be a connection between the National Educational Welfare Board and the early childhood care and education, ECCE, scheme. That scheme is an excellent initiative we should secure and on which we should build. I understand we now have the name of every child in the scheme. Could that information now be passed to and shared with the Department of Education and Skills so that we can track these children through primary and secondary school? We have a figure of 1,000 for the number of children who drop out of the education system somewhere between primary and secondary school. However, nobody seems to know whether these are children who have moved country or what. They just seem to get lost in the system. Perhaps consideration should be given to tracing these drop-outs. We now have a database with the names of all those who start in the early childhood care system so we should join up the thinking there.

I welcome the Minister's acknowledgement on the State report to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child and that she will lodge the report with the UN committee either this year or next. However, I note that it was due in April 2009 rather than April 2010, and is, therefore, long overdue. I acknowledge that was not under the Minister's watch.

The Minister was answering a question with regard to the children's services committee when I returned to the room. In her submission to us, the Minister mentioned the expanded remit within her Department. Will she expand the remit of the children's services committee along the lines of the Department and will she expand the committee's role to ensure the new initiative we have at national level will also take place within the committee? Also, will she ask the committee to liaise with community organisations and NGOs? At national level there is good co-operation with the Department and the NGOs, but we do not see that same co-operation happen at local level. Therefore, I urge the Minister to look at community groups and the NGOs providing services when she is reviewing the children's services committee so that they liaise together.

With regard to the report of the special rapporteur, Geoffrey Shannon, on child protection, I was pleased the Minister attended the first debate on the special rapporteur's report in the Seanad and that she committed to monitoring its implementation. Does she see a role for this committee in monitoring its implementation with her? We have now had four reports from the special rapporteur, but we have no way of following up and tracking those reports.

I would like to formally congratulate the Minister on her appointment as Minister for Children and Youth Affairs and thank her for a very comprehensive presentation. It seems like this is a good day for the Minister and I am delighted to hear the news about the referendum and that it will take place next year. I concur with people who took the view that it is better to do it delayed but properly than to have it rushed. I would also like to say well done to the Minister in respect of the additional social workers.

I note from the Minister's presentation that her first priority is the protection of the child. That is good, given the dark period of our history since independence when a great deal of child abuse took place in this State. I do not distinguish between clerical abuse, abuse in State institutions or in the privacy of one's home. It is the abuse of children and that is wrong. Unfortunately, it is part of the legacy of what we are. It was not done by foreigners, but by our own. Historically, society turned its back on the existence of the problem and if anyone is more guilty of closing their eyes, it is politicians since the days of the first Dáil. It is not that people did not know it was there. By and large, most politicians did not want to know it was there.

We are in a different time now and I am glad to hear the Minister say that we should put it all out there. People living in this State should know what the past was like for some children. The majority of children had a happy upbringing. If we are to do nothing else as legislators and if the Minister is to do nothing else at the end of her tenure, she will have done a very good job if children born in this country get protection from abuse, because nobody else has done it. Issues such as the education and health of children are very important, but a child should be allowed to be born in a state that is free from child abuse. That must be a priority and I am delighted it is the first thing the Minister has mentioned.

I am glad to hear the Minister say that work has already begun on improved legislation to protect children from abuse. I do not expect her to have answers to some of these issues after 130 days, but I presume it will be sometime next year before she introduces this further legislation on protecting Irish children from abuse.

In your response, Minister, I would like you to pick up on something that Senator van Turnhout raised, which is the fact that based on the figures presented to us, we now have 3,000 children who are not in the ECCE scheme. What steps are being taken to try to bring them into that scheme? It seems that is the first warning sign for some of these children. They are falling out of the system. There may be good reason for some children not availing of the scheme, but I am sure that if we look at that figure, many of those children would come from disadvantaged backgrounds or dysfunctional homes. It is important that we focus on these children and ensure the resources are put in place at that stage rather than having to deal with the problem at primary school or at post-primary level.

Deputy Doherty made the first point and it was about special needs. We can make improvements in this area and we need to make them. One such improvement is earlier assessment, but it is also about access to services as well. I mentioned that the Minister for Health has spoken about working at an interdepartmental level in this area, and we certainly need to do that. Going back to Senator Conway's point, we need to see new initiatives between Departments on how best we can deliver these services. It is welcome that the Government will maintain the 10,575 special needs assistants which we have at the moment, and there is a report on the website of the Department of Education and Skills about the way the scheme has evolved and some of the challenges it now faces. Most Members have seen that. The report needs to be examined and understood. However, the bottom line is that parents want access to the kind of services their children need. We in the Government have said that any child with care needs will see those needs met, but I appreciate that there is a major readjustment for parents, who may have thought there would be access to a full-time special needs assistant, SNA, to see that there is only access to a part-time SNA. That is one of the ongoing debates at the moment.

In providing the services required, we need to face up to the level of special need. For example, I mentioned that the number of children with hearing, vision and speech problems is very high. We need to start having effective screening, but at the moment we only have screening for audiology, and that is just beginning in maternity hospitals. We have much work to do to get the proper screening tools in place and provide the kind of supports that parents need. We have to do this in the context of the financial situation the Government has inherited, so it will be very difficult, but it is a priority and should remain so.

The next point by Senator van Turnhout dealt with a range of issues. The detention centre in Lusk comes under the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, and the intention is to close down St. Patrick'sInstitution. Plans are progressing and it is one of the issues to which I will return at a later point. The Senator is right about support for the referendum. I call on Deputies and Senators to ensure people understand why we need a referendum. One way of addressing some of the abuses that have come to light is to put in place the right mechanisms to support children, as Deputy Maloney said. We still have a number of other reports, such as the report by Dr. Helen Buckley of the national review panel, which will be published soon. The national review panel was set up to review deaths and serious incidents experienced by children in State care or who are known to HSE children and family services.

Progress is being made as well. According to the April figures, 90% of children in care now have a written care plan, while 95% of children in care now have an allocated social worker. Progress has been made in this area, but there is ongoing work. The Chairman spoke about the ECCE scheme and the children who are not attending. There is a very high participation rate of 95%, while 2% would be in the community child care subvention programme and some other children would be in special services such as disability services. Some parents chose not to send their children to early school and would prefer to have them at home until they go to primary school. It is a good point and it can be examined at local level. The local child care committees are probably in a good position to provide the kind of answers the Chairman is seeking. We can then look at it on a national level when we get that data.

We will be launching the implementation plan of the Ryan report in the next two to three weeks. This can be debated in the Dáil. The Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, has spoken of inspection in residential centres as a priority area, so I think we will see progress very shortly. The Minister of State has prioritised it in the Department. Outside monitoring and inspection is critical for residential institutions. As a priority, it has been delayed for far too long

As I stated to Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin earlier, I will progress the provision of a telephone helpline for children. Up to 13 out of 27 EU member states have it and it will be introduced here. The UN report will be published as well.

Children's services will be linked with other groups such as Dáil na nÓg and NGOs. I hope Senator Jillian van Turnhout will submit to my Department any ideas she has on the development of models for child services committees.

I have addressed Deputy Eamonn Maloney's points. The first priority of any country is to protect its children. I hope to have the heads of the Bill on children's rights drawn up later in the year.

I agree with the claim in the Minister's presentation that the creation of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs is a fantastic opportunity. Previous Administrations only paid lip-service to youth affairs which is evident in the dearth of youth services today. That there are more golf courses than children's playgrounds is an indictment of this lip-service. I wish the Minister well in this complex and difficult portfolio.

Funding for youth services in the voluntary and community areas is dispersed across a wide range of agencies and Departments, VECs and local authorities. It would be helpful if the funding streams could be streamlined, making them more accessible to the voluntary and community sectors.

Mental health services for young people are underdeveloped despite plans to more than double inpatient bed capacity in this field. While I understand the competing demands on the Minister's time and the cross-departmental response required, I hope reducing youth suicide will be made a priority. The rate is alarming and it is the leading cause of death for 15 to 24 year old males.

I welcome the Minister's commitment to tackle disadvantage at an early age. This is the pathway through which negative life events follow young people into adulthood and perhaps all through their lives.

I welcome the Minister to the committee and the establishment of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, one that Sinn Féin has called for many years.

Has the Minister direct responsibility for youth homelessness? What action does she propose to take in addressing this issue? Many young people become homeless for different reasons. The State has a legal responsibility under the Child Care Act 1991 but situations have still arisen where young people have become homeless and gone missing from State care. In 2001 the youth homeless strategy was published and set out the clear steps needed to be taken. Several plans were subsequently adopted by the Health Service Executive and a monitoring committee of the strategy is in place. Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin stated the Minister's work would straddle several Departments leading to various ministerial tussles. I hope this is one area for which the Minister will have direct responsibility.

Child poverty will be a crucial issue for the Minister's Department. Unfortunately, the only up-to-date figures available are from 2009. They show, however, that 8.7% of children under 17 years live in consistent poverty. Separately, 18.6% are at risk of falling into consistent poverty. The best way to deal with child poverty is a combination of child and adult income supports as well as access to public services. The Minister spoke earlier about screening and prevention being important, referring to audiology services. Up to 400 children have been on waiting lists for two years and more at Waterford Regional Hospital just to see an audiologist. The bottlenecks in the system and the public service recruitment embargo are having an effect on patient care. Access to public services in health and education, such as special needs assistants, are important in combating child poverty.

How many more of the 18.6% children at risk are now in consistent poverty owing to the economic crisis, rising unemployment, reductions in child benefit and income support to people on social welfare? There will be a link between the Minister for Finance's policies and child poverty. I hope the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs will win whatever tussle might take place between her and the Department of Finance. It is important we protect vulnerable children, especially those at risk of living in consistent poverty.

By EU standards, Ireland rates poorly in tackling child trafficking. Figures I received from the Children's Rights Alliance and Senator Jillian van Turnhout show that between 2000 and 2010, 512 separated children went missing from State care, 440 of whom are yet to be found. There is a real fear that some of those children have been the victims of sex-trafficking. While this issue is underground, I believe it should be central to the Department's work. It is important this State does not fare badly in tackling it. More robust legislation is needed to protect vulnerable children, as well as women, from trafficking.

I attended the recent launch of the Ombudsman for Children's annual report at which she asked lawmakers and policymakers to listen to children more. She gave several examples, such as the civil partnership legislation, in which the rights of children were not taken into account. The special rapporteur on child protection recommended the expansion of the guardian ad litem provision, with the courts becoming more family friendly, and listening to children more. Those who advocate on behalf of children are concerned the State does not listen to children enough. If we had listened to children in the past, we would not have had those tragedies outlined in the Ryan report.

Having accompanied the Minister at several functions recently, I know she is passionate about her portfolio. I have been in contact with her office on several occasions and received excellent responses from her excellent back-up team.

When I was canvassing door to door during the general election, I noticed many kids staying indoors playing computer games or watching TV. Now, it is reported one quarter of all three year olds are either overweight or obese. I notice from my constituency clinics that many parents are concerned about their children's health. How does the Minister plan to tackle this issue?

Child poverty is another issue we must tackle. No one knows what is happening behind the front door in a home. While a father or mother might be working, there could be a drink or gambling problem in that family. The children's allowance payment for some of these families might be the only financial support for food and clothes these children receive. A reduction in the payment could push more into child poverty. How will the Minister address this issue?

Senator Gilroy is correct that the youth services funding streams are too complicated. I will be examining this process. A new Estimate for the Department will be introduced shortly and the two grant-in-aid subheads will be rationalised into one. This will provide a basis for bringing together funding streams and streamlining the procedures.

Youth homelessness comes under my Department's remit and a review of the national strategy is under way. The number of homeless youths has been reduced but there have been some queries about definitions and so on. There is still much work to be done in this area and I have had meetings with the various groups involved. I am sure we will be returning to this issue again.

Senator Cullinane made a valid point about child poverty. The best way out of poverty is for people to have employment, which is why the Government's key focus is job creation. A new commission will be established to examine the interplay between taxation and social welfare in which family income supports will be addressed. Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick is correct that child benefit is a huge support to families as an income stream for basic needs. Addressing child poverty is a priority.

Regarding the Senator's point on audiology, it is a pity so many resources were wasted in the health services in the past. The type of screening services that are essential should have been put in place. That is why the Government is committed to reforming health service delivery to make it more effective. We do not underestimate the size of this job but one would have thought the kind of screening I spoke about would have been a basic service, particularly with the resources available to the country.

The HSE has analysed the numbers of separated children. One factor behind the figure of 400 children is that children who leave the service for a day or come in late are classified as missing. Staff in residential settings are concerned that a child who is an hour or two late coming back from leave will be registered as a missing person. The Garda assistant commissioner with responsibility for this area recently informed me he has concerns about this too.

The Department has a participation unit to address the issue of listening to children. It is a vibrant part of the Department's work. We are getting much feedback from young people and involving them in many of the decisions we are making. The unit also works through Comhairle na nÓg in which young people can advise local authorities on the services that need to be developed in their areas. We should be doing more of this. While it is easy to say we need to listen to children, we can be a bit slow in putting it into practice.

Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick raised the matter of childhood obesity which is now an epidemic and one experienced in other European countries. We need a multifactor response to this. The Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, is bringing together representatives from various Departments with remits in education, transport and sport to tackle this issue. I agree with the Deputy that we can make a meaningful intervention with the children affected and their families and, if successful, change the course of their lives. We all know the consequences of obesity such as heart disease, diabetes and the subsequent cost to our medical services.

The steer the Minister has on the figures for unaccompanied minors is inaccurate. The figures refer to the children who have gone missing but have not subsequently turned up. I am glad the Minister has committed to reverting to the committee with a more detailed briefing on this matter.

It is a new experience for me to sit in such close proximity to a Minister and a Secretary General. I can only happily anticipate that many aspects of the skills I developed in dealing with some of her predecessors will be wholly redundant over the next several years. I am also reminded of the old Washington aphorism: "Nothing propinks like propinquity." It is good to sit beside the Minister here today.

While it does not fall under the Minister's portfolio, the major decision which will have a future impact on children's health is the location of the proposed children's hospital. Will she use her influence in Cabinet, and elsewhere, to ensure, now that the decision has been made, one which has caused both pain and joy, that everyone rows together behind the construction of the hospital? We must not let any other factor be used as an excuse to delay the implementation of the plan and the inauguration of construction. Earlier today, I heard the final decision on the hospital will not be made until December although final opinions had already been taken. We need to put our sails into wind and get building this hospital. This project, it must be remembered, was paralysed by indecision at a time when the country was flush with money. While it is a bigger challenge now, there is no more important challenge facing us.

The State has a critical role in ensuring the welfare of its children and I am delighted someone as responsible as Deputy Frances Fitzgerald is now stewarding this. At the risk of sounding aphoristic, the key non-economic determinant of the welfare of children is the level of good parenting they get at home. The State must do everything it can to encourage, reward and, through its social and economic policies, facilitate parents in the extraordinary task they have in looking after our new generations. As the Minister is aware, the first metric of the new Administration is that the birth rate has shot up. While I am not sure how much credit the Government can take for this, it certainly outlines the scope of the challenges ahead. The philosophy should always be to identify situations where parenting is inadequate and to try to rehabilitate where it is marginal, but to be ready to intervene where it is no longer feasible.

I will mention one or two technical points that have come to light during the course of my professional experience. They relate to the interface between the Minister's portfolio and cancer policy. Will she examine the guidelines by which cancer patients who wish to adopt are judged healthy enough for that great responsibility and privilege? In my experience, some really fine people who were in excellent health and were cured of cancer were denied the prospect of adoption until after they had passed the age threshold after which adoption was no longer possible because of an adherence to an outmoded set of health criteria.

Deputy Ciara Conway took the Chair.

I wish to raise a specific issue in the context of the Minister's dealings with external authorities, as I have seen quite a bit of a peculiar quirk. Irish people who are adopting in Russia are made to provide an array of reports from medical specialists relating to illnesses they have never had. A particular part of the Russian judicial system drew this requirement up in an unthinking fashion. The result is that people must get appointments to see cancer specialists, endocrinologists, cardiologists and all manner of people with whom they would never have interacted because they have been in perfect health. A statement of health from a primary doctor should suffice.

Sadly, it has been my experience that the services available in the tragic cases of children who have lost their parents due to cancer and other illnesses are wholly inadequate. This is a niche area, but one in which the impact of meaningful intervention could be significant.

I echo the comments of my colleagues, Deputy Ó Caoláin and Senator van Turnhout, about the 116000 helpline. Without flogging a dead horse, I was stunned when I saw the amount of money in question, some €35,000. In my world of raising funds for cancer research, a couple of good golf outings would bring in that amount. I am too young to play golf, but I intend to take it up when I am middle aged. If the Government cannot find the money to fund the helpline directly, it should be able to use its bully pulpit to find a few people who would. This intervention of potentially great impact is unbelievably cheap. The amount of money we will spend sending bits of paper between Departments about it may well be as high. The figure I have seen is €35,000 with matched funds from charities. All the Government has to invest or find is €35,000.

I thank the Minister and wish her all the best for the next years of her tenure.

I congratulate the Minister. It is nice to see Mr. Jim Breslin, who I have not see in a long time. I also welcome Ms Michelle Clarke and the rest of the departmental officials.

When I read the Minister's report, three words hopped off the page - "holistic", "deprived" and "disadvantaged". I have hated these words since I was a young child. All children are vulnerable whether they are poor or have privileged backgrounds. Through the years, I have seen them in youth clubs and community groups, where it was not always about how much money was put on the table. It was also about the way parents treated their children and so on. These were factors no matter whether one was categorised as being poor or privileged.

I grew up in the south-west inner city and lived in what was then known as a poor working class area beside one of the most deprived places, namely, Keogh Square. Many people were poor, but they were not deprived. They did not have proper education and came from a vulnerable background, but in no way could I say that the children I worked with were deprived. A child may only have had a boiled egg for the Sunday dinner, but many were well grounded and went on to be wonderful people.

Three elements of the Minister's report jumped off the page. I welcome the after-care service for children over 18 years of age. It is important. As someone who has worked in the voluntary youth work sector for all of her life, I have always been concerned about those who reach 16, 17 or 18 years of age, as they are the community's most vulnerable members and are in most need of attention. I am glad to see the service is in place and I hope it will make a change for the many young people who are in foster care or other care services so that, when they turn 18 years old, they are catered for and are not left hanging. This is a good measure.

When I visit schools to speak to children, transition year students in the inner city in particular, they hate the word "deprived" because it labels them and where they come from. It often seems that the words "deprived", "disadvantaged" and "holistic" came with the task forces and partnerships, which were focused on money. If one could label a place as being deprived, one got more money. RAPID has had a significant impact for communities, but one is not seen as being deprived if one is not in a RAPID area. This gives young people the wrong impression. Certain schools in my area have been labelled in this way and find it difficult to get other children from the community to attend them. The children do not want to go to those schools because they have been labelled "deprived". It is a word I detest.

I wish to address the early child care programme. The figures of 95% and so on are welcome, but it is not working on the ground. My local experience is probably similar to that of other members, in that the programme is working in some areas but not in others. It has not helped local community playschools. It has actually killed some of them. I know of two or three. If one is born on a certain date, one might be two days too late to enter the programme and must wait for next year's enrolment. This is causing significant problems for some inner city playschools, community playschools in particular. I know of two that might not re-open in September. When I visited one playschool, the people running the class told me of how some children had their lunch at a certain time and were not allowed to sit with the other children because they could not have their meals at the same time. What a bizarre idea. All children are equal; let them all have their lunch together. I do not care whether one group is paying privately or whether another is in a free scheme. It was not the teachers' idea - it was the requirement.

I wish to address the issue of youth workers. I come from a voluntary work background and have worked with young people for all of my life. I have a problem with the report in this regard. According to it, €60 million per year is being spent on youth work. Many youth workers are not in touch with the community or their local youth clubs. This matter must be examined in the long run. I do not know what the Minister or any other member believes, but trying to get people involved in voluntary and youth clubs is difficult. That many criteria must be met is important, but it has made people reluctant to enter communities and get involved with helping young people. There was a time when one could chuck 20 kids into a van, bring them up to the local playing pitch with a hurley or a football and play with them. One can no longer do this, which I accept.

I am not a trained youth worker, but I come from the voluntary work side of it. When a youth worker arrives in an area, he or she usually only speaks with the volunteers, those being, the mammies, daddies, grandparents and young people. The first thing he or she does is bring a pile of paper and to ask people to fill out forms on whether they have done this or that course. I understand the difficulties encountered through the years and everyone has referred to the problem of abuse, but we have forgotten what a youth worker is. We need to refocus on this area. If we are to bring qualified youth workers into communities, we need to be able to relate to the people at their level, not to arrive with books in our hands and reading rules after just leaving college. Some of the €60 million is not being invested in the right places.

I congratulate those who have decided to remain in the voluntary youth work sector. It is a vocation. One does not get paid for it. It is a love of sharing one's experiences and gifts with young people. This is important. Given that there is not as much money as there used to be, we need to reconsider what the idea of working in a community means to people.

I join all members in welcoming the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs and her colleagues. I offer her my congratulations. I keep a copy of our Proclamation in my desk. It is one of those documents issued to many visitors to Leinster House. It is interesting that all those decades ago, it referred to "cherishing all the children of the nation equally". That we now have a Minister dedicated to the needs of children and young people is the strongest possible statement from our Government that we intend to cherish and support our children.

Several issues I wished to raise have already been discussed, as I am one of the last speakers, if not the last, so I will not repeat them other than to echo one point made by Senator Gilroy - that is, the need to support those young people in our society who are at risk, particularly of suicide. I must add to that the growing problem of self-harm among our young people. As the Minister will be aware, I am a director of Pieta House, an organisation that provides a valuable intervention service for the most vulnerable people in our society who are at risk of suicide and self-harm. Its youngest client at risk of self-harm is six years of age. That too is a strong indicator of the emerging problems affecting our young people. I support the request to prioritise the need to support those young people at risk.

The second item I wish to raise is that of psychological services, another area in which the Minister has expertise and passion. Can she indicate to us the likelihood that she will be able to effect change in order to respond to the needs of children, particularly those children who are living in socio-economically deprived areas? The Minister will agree that we have a great opportunity and need to improve services in the years ahead.

I wish the Minister and her Department every success in the great challenges she faces in the coming years.

Senator Crown made a strong statement about the implementation plan for the national children's hospital and spoke about the vital necessity of its speedy fulfilment. I accept the points he made about how critical is the establishment of the national children's hospital.

The Senator talked about supporting good parenting. That is a strong goal of the Government. He also made an interesting comment about intervening when necessary, which is equally important. We have seen in several reports - including, as I mentioned earlier, the Roscommon report - that we were slow to intervene in certain cases because people were concerned that intervening where there was poor parenting was somehow not the thing to do, and the legislation was misunderstood. This is one of the reasons we need a referendum on children's rights - so it is clear that the best interests of the child must be considered above all else. I agree with the Senator about the need for the Government to support good parenting. I cannot remember the name of the expert who coined the phrase "good enough parenting". If one can be a good enough parent and get on with the job, that is what we need to support. We have quite a big budget for the development of family support services throughout the country, and our first intention, and that of the HSE, is to give high-quality support to parents.

The Senator also made two particular points which I will take up with the Adoption Authority, about former cancer patients who wish to adopt and the outdated criteria for adoption from Russia. I am not sure how much we can influence that, as we do not have a bilateral agreement with Russia at the moment. However, I will pass those points on to the Adoption Authority.

I am aware that services for bereaved children need to be developed further. The general point that has come across from quite a number of members is the need to develop our services for children in a whole variety of areas. It is an issue of resources but also one of planning and links between Departments. I will certainly follow up on those points.

I note the points made by Deputy Catherine Byrne about communities, and I appreciate the Deputy's experience in that area. I know she is concerned about some aspects of the ECCE programme. I have met many people who are involved in the programme and it appears it is generally working well. I note the point the Deputy made about some community playgroups that were not able to match what the scheme offered, which led to difficulties for them. Almost every service is in the programme and what I am hearing is that they are worried that it may be removed. They want to see it maintained and developed. We need to ensure that people can match their overheads to the funding available, which is a challenge for several providers, particularly in the current economic climate. There is no reason children should be segregated for meals. That is extraordinary. It is poor practice and not something I would support.

The Deputy raised a point about the ECCE programme's start date and age cut-off. We had to have a cut-off age in order to avoid too wide a spread of ages. It does cover a 17-month period, but there will always be somebody who is outside the deadline and the problem is that if we start making exceptions the numbers become unmanageable. I know that parents are disappointed if their children are just a week or a couple of days outside the cut-off point, but there is quite a wide age range which covers 17 months. The programme can be accessed by children between three years and two months and four years and seven months.

The Deputy also made a point about the development of youth work. I have some statistics about the distribution of the €60 million per year that is spent on youth work. There are 1,100 staff with salaries in the youth sector, as well as 1,100 in the sessional and community employment schemes, but there are 62,000 volunteers. There are many volunteers throughout the country. At the moment, many people are applying to be volunteers and there is an issue with vetting, but there is an upsurge in the number of people who want to be involved as volunteers on the youth side. That is a good news story. Nevertheless, it does not take from the Deputy's point that we must continuously evaluate the services available. That is true in the youth work sector as everywhere else. We need to close services that are not working and continue evaluating the quality of the work and its outcomes.

Deputy Derek Keating made a number of points. I know he has worked hard in the area of mental health and that he has concerns about mental health services. I can only reiterate what he said about the need to prioritise this and make sure children have access to services. Very young children can be in need of support for mental health issues. Access to psychological services, as to other services, is a key point. We need to discuss this with the Department of Education and Skills and determine what its plans are for the development of the psychological service that is available to young children at present.

Before we adjourn I take the opportunity to thank the Minister and her team for coming today to outline the brief of her new Department and the work she will undertake in the coming months.

I ask the Vice Chairman to reiterate the dates and times for the meeting next week.

The next meeting will be at 11 a.m. on Thursday, 14 July.

Is there also a meeting on Tuesday, 19 July?

That is a meeting of the select committee. It is on Tuesday, 19 July at 1.30 p.m.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.50 p.m. until 11 a.m. on Thursday, 14 July 2011.
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